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#rockbox log for 2012-05-14

00:05:21 Join factor [0] (~factor@r74-195-219-241.msk1cmtc02.mskgok.ok.dh.suddenlink.net)
00:15:23 Join Scromple [0] (~Simon@119.225.209.134)
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00:36:39 Join saratoga [0] (98034408@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.3.68.8)
00:36:47saratogadfkt: what software did you use to make those cool resampler plots?
00:37:00saratogathat seems like a much smarter way of testing then what i'm doing now
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00:54:31 Quit ender1 (Quit: The process takes just over six seconds, and would sound like a coffee machine passing an aluminum baseball bat if there were any atmosphere to carry the sound.-- Howard Tyler: Schlock Mercenary)
00:54:59saratogai wonder if FS #12574 is also due to buflib memory corruption in the theme engine
00:55:00fs-bluebothttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12574 33.10 on Clip V2 freezes when selecting another language due to bad nvram.bin (bugs, unconfirmed)
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01:29:49dfktsaratoga, for the logs - http://spek-project.org/ - it just does one thing, and does it well :) for test signal i used a 20hz-20khz sine sweep
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01:44:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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04:18:43 Join rocktriangle [0] (~trollingz@209.183.23.216)
04:18:54rocktriangleHello
04:19:25rocktriangleIf I had put a micro SD card into my DMP, and upload music onto my player, where would it go?
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04:44:32rocktriangleCould someone answer the question?
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06:32:28[Saint]JdGordon: so...not sure if you saw the tracker or not, turns out, I did a stupid thing. I blindly coded assuming %ax still worked and thought to myself "I'll enable %ax horizontal mirroring for the viewports that need it after I've finished win the other needed conditions and new bitmaps".
06:32:50[Saint]So, my localisation work got shot in the foot :)
06:33:51[Saint]Silly me...totally my fault, I know. Just wondered if you knew that %ax wasn't working.
06:34:12[Saint](And yep, I know you're busy)
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06:40:29JdGordonoh good :)
06:43:56saratogaalso, fix the skin engine memory corruption
06:46:18JdGordonbusy...
06:46:22JdGordon:)
06:53:43*[Saint] wonders why he hasn't seen a hint of this corruption on his themes.
06:54:39[Saint]I seem to be doing everything everyone else is...quite probably in larger amounts.
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07:00
07:05:36saratogaprobably depends on the exact sequence of memory allocations
07:07:21[Saint]I'm not used to not being he one that triggers exotic skin bugs. :)
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08:14:28 Join rocktriangle [0] (~trollingz@209.183.23.216)
08:15:13rocktriangleIs anyone familliar with a patch that can have the screen stay off when changing the sound on the player or pressing the next song button?
08:16:12JdGordonthere are a few patches for that sort of thing
08:16:18JdGordonthey are imo pointless
08:41:34JdGordon[Saint]: so is the bug closed as "pebcak"?
08:45:07rocktrianglehow are they pointless?
08:45:58rocktriangleI just want the device to function without using valuable resources on the backlight
08:46:23 Join ender` [0] (krneki@foo.eternallybored.org)
08:46:28rocktriangleis there something that I don't know that makes the patch pointless?
08:48:03rocktriangleJdGordan: ?
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08:55:10[Saint]rocktriangle: set your timeout lower, easier.
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08:58:21[Saint]JdGordon: sorry?
08:59:25JdGordonwasd the bug you opened a real bug?
08:59:46[Saint]A: as peb-who-in-the-what-now?, B: the bug (if its the one I'm thinking of {%ax}) is quite valid.
09:00
09:01:37[Saint]Its quite reproducible, fortunately.
09:02:16[Saint]Sim, 'normal', and app targets all show it.
09:02:32JdGordonok
09:02:43JdGordonfunman's bug gets priority once i get some motivation :/
09:02:58[Saint]Oh, certainly.
09:04:14[Saint]I might switch temporarily to fudging it with separate viewports in a new branch.
09:05:47 Join amiconn [0] (amiconn@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
09:07:18[Saint]Oh...aha. I'm not sure if its broken, or if it never actually worked in the first place, but my fears with bars and touch areas are correct.
09:07:36 Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
09:08:09[Saint]It seems the volume touch area always expects the bar is drawn ltr.
09:09:53JdGordonI'd expect so
09:10:03JdGordonrtl isnt very well supported
09:10:06[Saint]JdGordon: is that a bug, or expected behaviour (and there should be some form of tag prepended to the volume touch area declaration)?
09:10:50JdGordonits expected behaviour, but the behaviour is wrong
09:11:20JdGordonRTL support sucking is a bug
09:11:21 Join pixelma [0] (pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
09:13:54[Saint]that's worded badly on my part, should there be a (new, not yet added) tag/bar parameters that says 'this bar's touch area functions backward, regardless of lang direction", or should (for example) the 'invert' bar param just magically make it so?
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09:15:12[Saint]Though unlikely, I could /maybe/ see a case where an exotic theme might want the volume touch area and fill direction 'backwards' regardless of lang direction.
09:16:45rocktriangleFinally,
09:16:53rocktriangleSorry, I was AFK since there were no responses.
09:17:15rocktriangleSo could anyone tell me why the patch to have the backlight disabled when on hold is pointless?
09:17:56JdGordon[Saint]: no, that should relly all happen magically
09:18:45[Saint]A: that's not actually what you asked for, and B: you've gone and picked a case that is already possible to achieve in settings...unfortunately for your argument.
09:19:36[Saint]JdGordon: I had a thought, and it would actually make some sense for %ax to govern the direction of touch areas which have a direction.
09:19:57[Saint](which i think is only volume?)
09:21:24[Saint]rocktriangle: if all you want is for the backliht to stay off when the device is on hold (thisisn't what you actually asked for, initially), then reading the manual might be a good step.
09:21:35[Saint]This is already possible.
09:23:41[Saint]There is a "backlight on hold" setting which accepts the values "off", "normal", and "on" if I'm not mistaken.
09:26:30rocktriangleAnd this is in teh manual?
09:28:50[Saint]It is, yes.
09:31:04[Saint]Settings - General Settings - Display - LCD Settings - Backlight on Hold - 'Hoff's
09:31:35[Saint]Bah! Silly autocomplete. *"Off"
09:31:52[Saint]rocktriangle: ↑
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09:36:27[Saint]I'm going to add, though, that since you've described two completely different functions you would like I'm not sure what you actually want.
09:36:58[Saint]At least the last one you described makes sense, and is currently possible.
09:44:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:55:40rocktriangleI looked, and there is no "backligh on hold" option
09:56:12rocktriangleI want to have my screen turned off just so I can change the volume or track without having the screen turn on.
10:00
10:02:34[Saint]Why do you keep changing what you want?
10:02:41[Saint]And, what target is this?
10:05:13[Saint]You really need to be clear in your description, so far, you've described 3 different variations.
10:13:15[Saint]There is fs#8600 but its badly out of sync, and of course you'd need to compile this build yourself.
10:13:15fs-bluebothttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8600 3very large noise when resume playback (bugs, closed)
10:13:43[Saint]Whoops, fs#8400
10:13:44fs-bluebothttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8400 3Option to keep backlight off while changing volume etc. (patches, unconfirmed)
10:19:01kugelheh, sdl has APIs for loading libraries, we don't need our wrappers
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10:49:02 Quit [Saint] (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
10:49:03 Join [Sinner] [0] (~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940)
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11:11:53rocktriangleThank you fs-bluebot. And no Saint, I don't change what I want. I've repeated myself 3 times. Maybe there was miscommunication but I want only 1 thing. To have the backlight off when changing the track and volume when it's on hold.
11:12:27rocktriangleAnd I never saw the "backlight on hold" option in the player.
11:13:44rocktriangleI can list all the options Isee for LCD setting if you'd like.
11:14:27[Sinner]Perhaps you think you have communicated your wishes, but you kept adding/removing criteria from your description.
11:14:53rocktriangleWhat is it that I changed?
11:14:53[Sinner]One question, how do you propose to change track/volume whilst on hold?
11:15:12[Sinner]The point of hold is to prevent you from doing so.
11:15:16rocktriangleWell that's why I wanted a patch so the hold function will have a different purpose.
11:15:48JdGordondisabling the backlight for volume change really wouldnt safe much battery life
11:16:04rocktrianglevolume change AND track change
11:16:07JdGordonI'd expect maybe it would safe 5s for every 1s its on?
11:16:22[Sinner]I'm not sure we have a "make hold completely bloody useless" patch...
11:16:56rocktriangleThe way my player is designed gives very little purpose for the hold.
11:17:18rocktriangleIt has dedicated buttons that are stiff to the touch, thus rendering hold useless.
11:17:31[Sinner]JdGordon is right, also...I'd be very surprised if this created any measurable gain in battery life.
11:17:49rocktriangleI already have the backlight set to 1s.
11:18:04Zagorrocktriangle: then it won't make any difference
11:18:23Zagorthose tiny leds don't draw much power
11:19:13rocktriangleAlright then.
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11:21:01rocktriangleAlthough I do wonder why my tiny DAP has half the battery life of my other PMP that has a screen that's 4 times the size with capacitative buttons that glow extremely bright.
11:21:33Zagorbecause your tiny dap has a tiny battery?
11:21:43[Sinner]Because all batteries aren't created equal.
11:22:08[Sinner]Age, wear, poor charging habits, etc. etc.
11:22:47rocktriangleSo I guess it's the first 2, as for that last statement- I'm talking about the batery life promised by the corporations.
11:23:22rocktriangleBoth players nearly live up to it when they came right out of the box.
11:23:47Zagorrocktriangle: if rockbox is spending more battery than OF, it's very likely not due to wasteful led use
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11:24:25rocktriangleOh, speaking of which, thanks for reminding me.
11:24:51rocktriangleSeeing as how the backlight is at 1s, that's as low as it can gow.
11:24:59rocktriangleHowever the contrast can go much lower IMO.
11:25:05[Sinner]Unless I'm mistaken, you've not actually mentioned what target this is you're talking about.
11:25:23rocktriangleTarget?
11:26:02rocktriangleThe purpose of my questions? The device that I use?
11:26:38Zagorrocktriangle: "target" is rockbox speak for "player"
11:27:47rocktriangleOh
11:28:05rocktriangleSansa Clip 2
11:28:35rocktriangleclip +
11:28:39rocktriangleMy mistake,
11:28:44[Sinner]That explains the missing backlight settings, then.
11:29:19rocktriangleIs that a frequent problem that's presented?
11:29:56[Sinner]Its not a problem, no. Its a limitation of the player.
11:30:01Zagorthe numbers on http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaRuntime indicate rockbox gives 40%-60% longer runtime than stock firmware on clip+.
11:30:33rocktriangleWow, that's significant!
11:32:27rocktriangleSo back to the question I wanted to ask.
11:32:45rocktriangleIs there any way to have the contrast go lower than the numbers presented in rockbox?
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11:33:11Zagorrocktriangle: why do you want this? is the text too sharp to read?
11:33:35rocktriangleI'm on the same topic as before.
11:33:39rocktriangleSaving electricity.
11:34:11[Sinner]You would save an immeasurable amount.
11:34:12rocktriangleAnd frankly, the difference between 0 and 50 is very small.
11:34:37Zagorthen I would suggest you start with finding hard data showing how much power the display draws
11:34:59rocktriangleHow can I go about doing that?
11:35:21rocktriangleMeasuring the run time between constrast at 50 and contrast at 0?
11:35:27rocktriangleruntime difference*
11:35:37ZagorI don't know. but we tend to resist changes that don't have data backing.
11:35:52[Sinner]I'd be surprised if you could measure a difference with runtime.
11:36:14rocktriangleI agree Zagor and I think it should stay that way.
11:36:20rocktriangleWhy do you think that Sinner?
11:36:56[Sinner]Because your settings have the screen on for a very minimal period already.
11:37:20rocktriangleIsn't there an option in teh player to measure runtime?
11:37:41[Sinner]If you were to save any power, from your normal usage, we'd be talking in the order of a few minutes.
11:37:47[Sinner]And yes.
11:38:22rocktriangleIn any case, I can still measure power objectively with other factors involved without actually taking away the original purpose
11:38:24rocktrianglein other words
11:38:47rocktriangleHave the backlight on
11:39:18rocktrianglePossibly turn up the sound to a point where I can leave it and still hear it elsewhere
11:40:03rocktriangleWith those factors used for both experiments with the contrast turned to 0 and 50 then I'll see whether or not it makes a difference
11:40:16rocktriangleWhat do you think?
11:40:23rocktriangleAny opinions?
11:41:16pixelmajust a note, the Clip+"s display is an OLED if I remember correctly, so it's not "back"lit
11:41:18JdGordonpowering the skeakers would use more power
11:41:40JdGordonspeakers*
11:44:27rocktriangleYes but the purpose is to measure the difference.
11:44:43rocktriangleI thought I made that clear.
11:44:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:44:54[Sinner]At the end of the day, we're talking about shaving a few minutes off one of the most power efficient (compared to OF runtime) players...I'm not sure the cost outweighs the benefit.
11:45:11[Sinner]For example, piss poor visibility in daylight.
11:45:22rocktriangleHence what I suggested before.
11:45:42rocktriangleSo the screen won't turn on at all.
11:45:55[Sinner]Even then.
11:46:21rocktriangleThe player already has dedicated volume buttons of which helps a lot.
11:47:06rocktriangleSo it's really easy to navigate through out the tracks without having to look at the screen.
11:48:42 Nick [Sinner] is now known as [Saint] (~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940)
11:49:52Zagorrocktriangle: see this for standard runtime test: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/BatteryRuntime
11:52:05rocktriangleShucks! I forgot about the time!
11:52:23rocktriangleMy job beckons me, although I really appreciate the help you all have given.
11:52:34rocktriangleHave a great day!
11:52:38 Part rocktriangle
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12:23:11copper"trollingz"?
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14:36:32dfktsaratoga, did you see my reply in the logs?
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15:46:04kshello there
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17:30:03saratogadfkt: yes, thanks i'll take a look at it
17:30:12saratogalooks very useful
17:36:15saratogajhMikeS: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,34278.0.html
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19:22:15funmanJdGordon: how can we motivate you ?
19:22:33funmanJdGordon: AMSv2 USB working is not motivating enough ? :)
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19:25:05copperCharging the iPod Classic takes a while to get to 69%, then seemingly jumps to 100%.
19:25:28copperI say seemingly because I looked every few minutes or so
19:25:48coppersomeone else reported the same behavior
19:25:50saratogafunman: i saw someone report that their clip+ stopped booting after upgrading to 3.11.2
19:26:18saratogado you think it makes sense to double check each SD write transaction right before its commmitted to make sure its not going into the OF part of the nand chip?
19:26:44saratogai realize that shouldn't be possible now, but maybe with some memory corruption or something its possible?
19:26:48funmansaratoga: it is checked already
19:27:19saratogaat the beginning of the write function its incremented by 200 blocks IIRC, but i think the loop itself just iterates as long as there is data
19:27:36saratogaperhaps if there is memory corruption while it is waiting ?
19:27:50funmanyeah but it could corrupt the other part so there is no point
19:28:08saratogawell if it keeps looping, i guess the code is right, even if the stack might be trashed
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19:30:24funmanwhich post is it ?
19:30:33funmani ll tell him to wait or send me the player
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19:34:37saratogafunman: http://forums.sandisk.com/t5/Sansa-Clip-Sansa-Clip/Rockbox-killed-my-Clip/td-p/274286
19:35:01scorche|shheh - posting that on the sandisk forums isnt going to help him much
19:37:25funmansaratoga: it is checked at line 825 that the whole transfer wont overflow
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19:37:40funmanso it should be fine
19:38:08saratogathe while (1) loop can run for a really long time though
19:38:16saratogaperhaps if memory is corrupted while it waits on hardware?
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19:40:04funmanwe can assume everything
19:40:21funmanincluding memory corruption which causes rockbox to transform to a perfect copy of the OF
19:40:27funmanin that case it is not our problem :P
19:40:54saratogaok
19:41:25funmanusing MMU and executing from RO memory might help but i didnt make progress with it
19:43:02funmani thought i uploaded my work to gerrit
19:43:16funmanperhaps it is on my other pc
19:43:21saratogaah yeah that would be a good idea
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20:43:54pamaurybertrik: ping
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21:02:18pamaurybertrik: my experiments show an average of 1ms between the tuner interrupt and its actual processing (process time including device communication is included into this delay)
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21:03:15pamauryit reaches ~5/6 ms sometimes but hardly higher values
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21:31:04pamaurywould someone be against adding a tuner property about the volume ? For example, the si4700 can attenuate the output. On the fuze+ that would be usuful because the radio is too loud
21:33:30n1ssetting it to a sensible value is not enough?
21:33:42pamaurywhat is a sensible value ?
21:33:50n1snot too loud?
21:34:47pamaurybut then you loose some range
21:36:02pamaurynot really loose but shift the available range. Although I must admit that setting the radio volume dynamically would not be easy with our system
21:36:15pamauryhmm, I'll try your suggestion for now, thanks
21:36:30n1si'd guess other ports just try to match the volume of pcm playback, i'm not really against a setting but you'd want a sensible default anyway, no?
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21:41:15pamaury-7dB seems a reasonable compromise
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21:51:05amiconnjhMikeS: ping
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23:03:46CIA-79Commit 642f523 in rockbox by 03Dominik Riebeling: Remove < and > from voice strings.
23:03:47CIA-79Commit 972b894 in rockbox by 03Dominik Riebeling: Fix a typo.
23:07:37amiconnThe front page commit message parser is somewhat broken. First line of 642f523 just says "Remove", i.e. everything within and after < > is ignored
23:10:07CIA-79972b894 build result: All green
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23:11:55bluebrotherhmm. There is some code replacing those characters in the script
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23:27:51bluebrotherhmm. Those seem to be recognized as mail address :o
23:28:43pixelmaguess that's being interpreted as html tag (which it can't recognise)
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23:29:56*bluebrother thinks to have a solution
23:30:45bertrikpamaury, I remember a complaint from on FS about not being able to hear voice when using radio (radio volume doesn't go down when something is spoken)
23:31:05bertrikit could be done with radio volume, but for most targets probably also with line-in volume
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23:36:39CIA-79Commit 33c0b53 in www by 03Dominik Riebeling: Only remove email address from author line.
23:36:49bluebrotherso ... how to trigger a rebuild of the list on the front page?
23:39:55CIA-79Commit 45e5b05 in rockbox by 03Dominik Riebeling: Windows: always define UNICODE.
23:40:25bluebrotheryay, worked :)
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23:46:15CIA-7945e5b05 build result: All green
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