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#rockbox log for 2012-06-06

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06:00
06:12:56*[Saint] prepares for the horribly tedious task of creating 90 fonts by hand with slightly broken tools that make him have to review each font and adjust the commandline syntax accordingly for each one.
06:14:38[Saint]Oh...bugger, 180, I forgot about non-antialiased fonts...yeah, I think I might not do "light" or "bold" versions.But that still means at least 60
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12:20:42rarogis there andybody familiar with cygwin compilation?
12:20:47rarog*anybody
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12:28:15[Saint]rarog: familiar enough to know that its terrible.
12:29:38Tornerarog: few people build with cygwin any more; it's always been slow and wonky, and it's not improving
12:29:49Tornestrongly recommended that you avoid it :p
12:30:13[Saint]I used to use it, until the level of hacker I needed to make building "just work" became more than I cared to maintain.
12:30:26[Saint]*hackery
12:31:13[Saint]If one *must* use Windows, then vmware or Ubuntu Wubi install is by far the better option.
12:31:39[Saint] /vmware/virtualbox/etc/
12:32:29[Saint]A Wubi install is probably best on a low specced system, as you don't have to share any resources with a host OS
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12:35:59amiconnBuilding the crosscompilers on cygwin is no problem, and building for target works too
12:36:09*amiconn built them a week ago or so
12:39:36[Saint]Android...notsomuch.
12:40:21[Saint]SDL failed o ncygwin for me also before I kicked it to the curb.
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13:07:49rarogamiconn: currently it fails to compile rbutils with cygwin.
13:08:04rarogNo problem with linux yesterday though.
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13:19:24[Saint]To be perfectly honest, no one particularly cares about whether or not x, y or z compiles on Cygwin or not. If it manages to compile x and y, that's great, but if it can't compile z the only person that's going to be able to fix it is someone that actually uses cygwin, and cares that z doesn't compile (and also knows *why* z doesn't compile enough to be able to fix it).
13:19:46[Saint]At this stage, and for quite some time now, this person(s) don't exist.
13:21:53[Saint]I hope that doesn't sound too blunt, or negative, I'm just trying not to sugar-coat things.
13:23:17rarogSure, it's ok, at home I use linux since years, but at work, at my family I have to work with windows.
13:23:31rarogSo I have to live with things, that are not perfect. ;)
13:23:57[Saint]If you "have to work with Windows" you might want to look into Wubi
13:24:01gevaertsDo you have to build rbutil there though? :)
13:24:21rarogpamaury: btw: rockbox now generates almost identical serial for usb, actually it's the same, just with a prefixed "1"
13:24:33pamauryyes, that's expected
13:24:47rarogah, ok.
13:25:22gevaertsFully identical might have bad effects actually
13:25:24raroggevaerts: not anymore, I wanted to create a new bootloader for fuze+ for which mkimxboot is needed, but I just waited, till I got home and did it there.
13:25:52[Saint]Wubi installs as a regular Windows application, but, allows for a full Ubuntu dual-boot...sounds like you'd much prefer this over CygWin
13:26:48rarogI'll think about wubi perhaps. I started using Ubuntu long before Wubi was created, so I never tested it.
13:30:26raroggevaerts: Windows depending on static data saved in registry? Yes, this could be evil. Like the problem it has with several drives and no serial number...
13:30:31rarogFlaws in implementation...
13:30:37gevaertsyes
13:30:59gevaertsWell, multiple drives with the same serial number are worse than with no serial number
13:32:00gevaertsThat's why we prefix the 1. That digit depends on which combination of interfaces is active, with 1=MSC, 2=HID, 4=serial IIRC, so 1 means you have MSC enabled, 3 means you have MSC and HID, ...
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13:33:47rarogAh, I see. Well no serial and multiple drives makes windows just blind for any drive beyound the first... And I believe just because it stores parental id, which contains "&" in it, wchich windows uses to store drives after the serial in normal case.
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13:35:14gevaertsThe MSC spec says you have to have a serial number, but unfortunately the usb.org MSC testing tool skips that test
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13:39:12rarogAh, so windows uses just a fallback mechanism and linux ignores the problems.
13:47:00gevaertsWell, the linux kernel doesn't care at all, udev might care depending on your configuration
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14:00:25wodzis there a way to instruct linker to overlap sections? I want .text .data .icode .idata .bss layout in binary but since I am going to copy .icode and .idata anyway I would like to overlap it with .bss
14:02:03Tornereset .
14:02:14*gevaerts isn't sure he understands
14:02:27gevaertsIs the output an elf-like file?
14:02:54Tornewodz: sections have two addresses, their VMA and LMA
14:03:05Torneyou want to just reset . to make the VMAs overlap
14:03:08gevaertsIf it is, does it matter? In a flat file you obviously want to make sure you don't have multi-gigabyte holes, but...
14:03:14Torneand use AT> to make the sections go to the right places
14:03:20Tornein the actual file
14:03:40Tornegevaerts: the point, i presume, is to avoid ahving a gap in the address space at runtime..
14:04:05Torneletting you reuse the memory
14:04:08wodzyes thats the point
14:04:19Torneit's not about what's actually in the file; bss is not loadable anyway so already isn't in the binary :)
14:04:41Torneanyway, just assign to . is the easiest way, in the linker script
14:04:58wodzok will try
14:05:02*gevaerts is still confused
14:05:14gevaertsicode and idata are linked elsewhere anyway, aren't they?
14:05:25TorneEr
14:05:30Torneyeah.
14:05:32Tornehm :)
14:05:34Tornethat's a good point
14:05:45Tornethe VMA of .icode/.idata should be the address they will be copied *to*, in iram
14:05:56Tornetheir LMA can be the same as the VMA of .bss
14:07:15Torneif you add the sections as .text .data .bss and then reset the VMA to be iram and add .icode and .idata you should get the right thing
14:07:19Tornethere's no need for bss to be at the end
14:07:26Torneit's a nonloadable section, its order doesn't do anything
14:08:38Tornewodz: possibly you should pastebin the section headers for what you had already?
14:08:43Torneshow us what you think is wrong iwth it?
14:08:44wodzwait but in case of reloatable code I dont want to set any meaningfull address at linktime. It is to be resolved at runtime, no?
14:09:16TorneAre we going to relocate iram as well?
14:09:33Torneallow multiple things to be using it?
14:10:02Torneiram is going ot have to be relocated independantly
14:10:19Tornethe regular sections get linked for a VMA starting at 0, right?
14:10:25wodzyes
14:10:28Torneif so i suggest you also link the iram sections for a VMA starting at 0
14:10:37Tornei.e. overlap .icodea nd .idata with .text/etc
14:10:50wodzright makes sense
14:10:50Tornethat seems like the most obvious way to have it work
14:11:01Tornethen bss can just follow data, nothing special about it
14:11:17TorneHm
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14:11:25TorneAlternatively, you could use something like 1GB
14:11:38TorneDepends how you plan on storing the knowledge of which relocations apply to which sections
14:11:57Torneyou may be able to get away with using the top bits of the VMA to decide whether you are relocating relative to the ram load address or the iram load address
14:12:11Tornei'm ont sure how you are intending to handle iram at all, tbh :)
14:12:16Tornewhen i looked at this before i just ignored it
14:12:34wodzthat was my first idea but I couldnt craft the right ld script to make elf2flt happy
14:12:54Torneelf2flt is not going to be happy with overlapping sections, no :)
14:13:07TorneEr
14:13:12Torneoh, you mean 1GB or whatver
14:13:36wodzyes I tried to link iram at 0x80000000
14:13:40Tornei don't think it's possible for me to really suggest anything unless you write up somewhere how you intend to have elf2flt work
14:13:49Tornebecause presumably you are modifying it to support the extra sections?
14:14:01wodzyeah
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14:15:34TorneHm
14:15:49TorneSo the later bflt format just infers the relocation type from the relocation value
14:15:53Torneby knowing the sizes of the sections
14:15:57Tornethat seems like it applies to us just fine :)
14:16:09Tornein which case, i don't see that you need to do anything special with the linker script
14:16:19Tornejust link everything in some (in fact arbitrary) order
14:16:46Tornethe loader can identify that a particular VMA is intended to refer to .icode by comparing it to the sizes of the sections
14:16:50Torneand then relocate it relative to there
14:17:09wodzyes
14:17:10Tornethe only special change you should need that way is to store the size of .icode and .idata in the header
14:17:18Torneso, i don't see why there's a problem with bss
14:17:24Torneyou *don't* want bss to overlap with anything
14:17:30Torneebcause that would make the VMAs ambiguous
14:17:54wodzI must miss something obvious
14:18:51Tornealso, i don't think you need to copy anything
14:18:59Torneyou should be able to just read the header and then load the sectiosn directly to the right places
14:19:07Tornei.e. load icode/idata straight into iram
14:19:13wodzthats what I mean by copying
14:19:34Torneright
14:19:41Torneso why do you think bss needs to be handled specially?
14:23:53wodzcurrent bflt scheme is like this: we have .text .data (loadable from file) and .bss with VMA just after .data. Relocations are continous from the begining so basically reloating means get reloc address from table and add runtime load address
14:24:28Torneright, because we are loading text/data/bss contiguously, which Linux doesn't
14:24:43Tornebut that doesn't stop us using the same type-inference scheme
14:25:21Tornebuild file with .text .data .bss .icode .idata and then compare reloc targets with the start VMA of .icode
14:25:26Torneif it's lower, add the main load address
14:25:37Torneif it's higher, subtract the start VMA of .icode and then add the iram load address
14:26:08*wodz facepalms
14:26:31wodzIt was to simple thats why I missed this
14:26:47Tornethis is what the linux bflt loader is doing with .data and .bss already :)
14:26:58Tornebut yeah, we don't have to treat .data and .bss separately
14:27:06Tornebecause we're happy for them to be contiguous
14:28:56Tornemissing something simple because your'e halfway through something complicated happens all the time :p
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15:19:47*amiconn never tried to compile rbutil, neither in cygwin nor linux
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15:57:12RAThomasgood morning
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16:00
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16:07:15sg-1|nexusHi. My friend has an issue with his Sansa fuze+. The battery was at 0% and not charging. He had to desolder Thema battery and Manual charge it.
16:11:58sg-1|nexusCould it be that the charge functions are Not very well implemented ? After removing the cable from usb (at 40%) Thema display Shows 50% and then returns Tor 40% (1% every second)
16:15:35RAThomassg-1|nexus: are we to assume this Sansa fuze+ is running rockbox?
16:17:35sg-1|nexusThe device ins running rockbox,yes
16:23:01RAThomasseems supported hardware is sansa fuze and fuzev2. Is it one of those?
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16:24:10gevaertsRAThomas: fuze+ is entirely different
16:24:11sg-1|nexusIts the fuze+ (unstable)
16:24:45RAThomasheh, yeah. Just found it on the wiki
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16:45:11RAThomasgiven the IrcGuidelines text, is this the right place to ask about tools and techniques to use in discovering the internals on an unsupported device?
16:45:18saratogasure
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16:47:01RAThomasbeautiful. I have an rknano-b based player from Philips. It came with a Windows based "device manager" that is supposed to keep the firmware up to date. Seems like sniffing the USB stream during an update would be interesting.
16:47:46RAThomasWhat's your best suggestion for a windows USB sniffer (spend most of my time on Linux)?
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16:49:37RAThomasdoesn't look like rknano-b has JTAG that I can tell
16:51:09saratogayou're trying to get a firmware file for it?
16:53:01RAThomasnope, I have one. I'm just trying to understand how to talk to it at this point. Also to see how (dis)similar it is to other rockchip SoCs.
16:53:49saratogaprobably start by disassembling the firmware
16:54:06saratogado you know what processor it uses?
16:54:12RAThomasARm
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16:54:46saratogawhich ARM?
16:54:47RAThomasI'm guessing its similar to rk27xx, but with reduced capabilities
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16:55:03RAThomassaratoga: no one knows ;)
16:55:21saratogayeah, hence i'm suggesting looking at the firmware
16:56:45sg-1|freisingHow can i look at the firmware? (Fuze+ is arm)
16:58:08RAThomasQEMU on Linux?
16:58:17saratogawe have tools in git for parsing the fuze+ firmware
16:59:00saratogathen you can disassemble it or whatever
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17:00:09RAThomasHmmm. I recently installed an ARM cross toolchain to futz around with the RPi. Been years since I disassembled any code. Man the Google-stations!
17:07:06RAThomasthat was easier than I expected.
17:07:27RAThomasNow to make sense of which is data, code and nonsense
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17:37:50RAThomasI did discover that this rknano-b based player in DFU mode is VID = 071b and PID = 3226
17:38:29RAThomascompare that to DFU on rk27xx: VID = 71b, PID = 3201
17:39:55funmannice
17:39:59RAThomasI wonder if the rk27xx tools might work (some) with the rknano?
17:40:06funmanRAThomas: perhaps you should put this info on the wiki
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17:40:40RAThomasSure. It looks like the person asking questions about the rknano in April didn't bother to start a page
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19:05:59RAThomaslooks like the rknano-b's firmware image (at least for this player) is the same as the rk29xx
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19:06:17RAThomaswhich is apparently NOT the same as the rk27xx ?
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19:17:18pamauryRAThomas: this is good news, I tried to do some work on the rknano but that proves quite hard without the format. I figured out a few things but not the entire format. Do you information on the rk29xx ?
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19:18:04RAThomaspamaury: no, but someone else seems to have done some work with it. Link in a moment...
19:19:33RAThomashttp://www.slatedroid.com/topic/19808-rk29xx-imagetools-v21/
19:21:09RAThomas^ this guy has hacked some stuff in LUA to split out the firmware image. Doesn't completely work for me, but I'm able to get some basic image layout info
19:21:17pamauryhow can you tell it's the same format as the rknano ?
19:21:46RAThomascomparing what it's looking for to a firmware image for my rknano
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19:23:13pamaurydo you a firmware image for your rknano ? I would like to try with my tool, that would be interesting to compare
19:23:30RAThomasFirmware image file begins with "RKFW", offset 0x19 contains 4 byte offset to bootloader... seems to match
19:24:14RAThomasMy player is a Philips SA32xxxx. They maintain firmware images on their web site. URL to my firmware i a moment...
19:24:51pamaurythe rknano firmwares I found on the web contain the RKnanoFW string...strange
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19:26:14RAThomaspamaury: http://www.p4c.philips.com/cgi-bin/dcbint/cpindex.pl?slg=en&scy=us&mid=Link_Software&ctn=SA3MXX04BW/37
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19:26:38RAThomasfile on that page: sa3mxx04bw_37_fuz_aen.zip
19:26:52RAThomascontains the file "Firmware.img"
19:31:19pamaurythanks. The format looks quite different from what I saw and from what the few rknano tools on the internet produce...:(
19:32:03RAThomasthe bootloader section of the image file begins with "BOOT"... not sure where actual boot code starts yet
19:32:41RAThomasdoes the string "NandBoot" look familiar? It appears in the bootloader section
19:32:47pamaurydid you disassemble your player to find out that it's a rknano ?
19:32:59RAThomasyessir I did :)
19:33:52RAThomaspamaury: it has the following 4 lines on the IC (if I can trust my eyes):
19:34:22RAThomasrockchip / rknano-b / AD1M484 / 1115
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19:34:32pamaurydo you have photos ? If so, posting them on the wiki would be awesome :) And you said the recovery mode has unexpected PIV/VID too ? I have one rknano based player, I should check what the recovery PID/VID but I don't have firmware upgrade for this one unfortunately
19:35:21pamaurymine has rockchip / rknano-b / AD1M400 / 1116
19:36:13RAThomasno photos yet. Maybe tonight I'll take some and post, alone with PID/VID on the wiki
19:36:52RAThomaswhere in the hierarchy of the wiki should I post?
19:37:10RAThomashere: www.rockbox.org/wiki/RockChip ?
19:37:10pamauryactually, there is something interesting about this: I tried the rknano tools on my player and I was not able to read the nand id...
19:37:11pamauryHmm, good question
19:37:28pamaurywe usually try to have one page per player
19:38:18pamauryI see a GoGearSA9200 page on the wiki. I think the SA32xx is called gogear too ?
19:38:22RAThomasIf that last number is a batch code, your chip was made one week after mine was
19:38:37RAThomasyes, I think so. Mines a "GoGear Mix"
19:39:10pamauryThen create a GoGearMixSA32xx page
19:39:20RAThomasCan do, thanks
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19:39:44RAThomasActually "GoGearMixSA3Mxx"
19:41:33*pamaury needs to leave and will be back later
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19:43:10RAThomaslooks like someone will have to add me (wikiname: ReaganThomas) to the WikiUsersGroup
19:44:07*gevaerts is on it
19:46:06gevaertsRAThomas: done
19:46:16RAThomasThanks!
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19:54:31AlexPDoes the sdl app do "touch"? i.e. is it the best bet for an android "sim" of arbitrary resolution?
19:55:08gevaertsyes
19:55:28gevaertsIt's bloody annoying to use if you're used to a button player :)
19:55:42AlexPheh, I'll try :)
19:56:09n1syep, it's really weird
19:56:14*gevaerts was using it yesterday :)
19:58:27AlexPI'm guessing I want normal not sim?
19:58:38gevaertsCorrect
19:58:49gevaertsOh, you also want −−prefix
19:58:53n1sprobably
19:59:00AlexPfor make or make install?
19:59:03gevaertsIt wants to install somewhere
19:59:23gevaertsfor configure, to have make install work properly
19:59:30AlexPah, thanks
19:59:37gevaerts /usr/local is the default I think
19:59:46*gevaerts *never* installs stuff there :)
19:59:47AlexPyeah, I don't want that
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20:03:11AlexPThat works, thanks
20:03:35AlexPIt isn't entirely useful that the vertical res of the screen I want to simulate is larger than that of my laptop :)
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20:10:16bertrikCan we replace our dull progress bar with a cool "throbber"?
20:10:36bertrikThis could simply be a bunch of bitmaps that are shown after each other.
20:10:43bertrikPossibly even part of a theme.
20:12:07saratogai'm ok with that
20:13:06AlexPI'd love a throbber :P
20:13:50n1swtf is a throbber=
20:13:52n1s?
20:14:31n1sah
20:14:52AlexPWell, I suspect bertrik meant it differently to me
20:16:19saratogai assume its like the win7 progress bar where it pulses as it fills up
20:17:17bertriksomething like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Ajax-loader.gif
20:17:41n1swikipedia tells me it's one of those your-web-browser-hasn't-frozen-yet animations
20:18:14n1sexactly so why would that be better than a progress bar?
20:18:31n1sit doesn't show anything but "activity"
20:20:10bertrik because our progress bar is boring
20:20:22n1swhich should be pretty obvious already since the music is playing :)
20:20:46bertrikand it doesn't actually show progress
20:20:46n1sbertrik: i think you can do it in a theme already so knock yourself out i guess :)
20:21:49gevaertsbertrik: your progress bar is as boring as you want it to be!
20:21:51n1sif you don't want it to represent progress, just stick in a bunch of timed "sublines" that animate when playing, i think, dunno much about wps stuff really
20:22:34bertrikwe have a progress bar for copying / moving files, I meant to replace that one
20:22:53n1sah i thought you meant in the wps
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21:28:17bertrikI can now alternate a couple of icons when copying/moving/deleting files, but still a bit meh, too small. Besides there is a splash right in the middle of the screen (like "Copying ...")
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22:29:52RAThomasThe firmware update file for my Philips GoGear Mix rknano-b based player is "understood" by the unpack app found here:
22:29:56RAThomashttps://github.com/jhonxie/rk2918_tools
22:32:06RAThomaslooks the Android + rk2918 based players wrap additional layers on-top-of / with the RKFW type update image that the rknano-b uses
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22:48:57RAThomasrockbox's own utils/rk27utils/rkusbtool cannot talk to the rknano-b based player (not unexpected, but had to try ;)
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22:50:13RAThomasI still ought to get a USB sniffer working on windows to see how it Philips' "Device Manager" communicates in DFU mode
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22:51:16saratogaRAThomas: what did that tool pull out of the firmware image?
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22:55:42RAThomassaratoga: it just wrote out the "ROM" portion to a separate file, along with ROM version, MD5 sum and other stuff to console.
22:56:06RAThomasMD5 sum matched
22:57:44RAThomasthe main file (from Philips) appear to also contain a bootloader, which the tool didn't write out
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23:04:28RAThomasI'll get my findings in the wiki soon
23:06:55RAThomasgevaerts: I'm still not able to edit the wiki. My name is in the "Member list:", but not the second "Members" list. Not sure how all that works
23:08:04gevaertsHm, that doesn't look right
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23:18:04gevaertsRAThomas: I don't really see anything wrong. I don't remember ever seeing the second list, but the history tells me it's always been there, so that's just me. I'd recommend contacting Björn Stenberg (Zagor here). His email address is on http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/UserRegistration
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23:45:54AlexPgevaerts: I noticed the second list the other day too, and I'm sure it never used to be there
23:45:58AlexPMaybe history lies!
23:51:24bertrikis the return; statement halfway function usb_drv_cancel_all_transfers in usb-drv-as3525.c intentional, or a bug?
23:52:45 Quit Wardo (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:56:02gevaertsThat looks interesting...

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