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#rockbox log for 2012-06-16

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00:13:39 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0/20120605113340])
00:14:18WilliamCI had no issues with it
00:19:12bertrikdo we have a playlist expert?
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00:36:42FOADn
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01:08:46sansafuze Hi. I just got a new sansa fuze+. One of my favorite features of Rockbox on my old MP3 player was the Gameboy emulator. Does Rockboy workvon the fuze+?
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03:29:21saratoga7z is still running, but the less then totally insane compression setting gave me a 405MB Ubuntu image with Gnome + gcc-arm + git +sdl
03:35:02saratogaon a clean windows vb install, audio and rockbox USB mounting just works with no additional settings required
03:35:10saratogaso its quite easy to set up
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13:59:22JdGordongevaerts: from a quick look, g#275 looks fine
13:59:24fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #275 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/275 : Make touchscreen handling work with skinned lists. by Frank Gevaerts (changes/75/275/2)
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14:01:22gevaertsJdGordon: ok. I think bug-wise it's ok (I mean, it works). I mainly wanted to know if you had any objections to the way I've done it, really
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15:34:04Mode"#rockbox +o AlexP" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
15:34:07AlexPJust in case :)
15:36:34bluebrother^anything coming up?
15:37:11copperservices down soon
15:37:15[Saint]Don't get channel/services notices?
15:37:18AlexPbluebrother^: Freenode services going down
15:37:27AlexPbluebrother^: So just in case something happens in that time
15:37:35AlexPHighly unlikely, but there we go :)
15:38:25[Saint]If you want, I can start spamming and give you a reason? :)
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15:39:36bluebrother^ah, missed that :)
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16:12:51AlexPkugel: You there?
16:14:00 Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
16:14:14kugelpyes, sir :-)
16:14:52AlexPGreat :)
16:15:13AlexPSo to grab your show status bar stuff, do I just want to checkout your github branch?
16:16:08AlexPAnd do I need everything, or is it something that I can cherry pick onto master?
16:16:13kugelpyea. you can add the repo as remote to your existing clone
16:17:01kugelpjust checkout the branch and compile
16:17:08AlexPOK, thanks
16:17:23AlexPIs there anything else in there that I would notice/that will effect me?
16:17:26kugelpbut beware that due to the statusbar the screen size is smaller
16:17:48kugelpso don't assume 720x1280 in your theme
16:17:55AlexPHow big is it?
16:18:04[Saint]Here's the joke :)
16:18:09AlexP:)
16:18:18[Saint]It varies.
16:18:22coppersomeone's making a 720x1280 theme?
16:18:28AlexPcopper: yeah, I am
16:18:34copperthat's cool :)
16:18:39[Saint]Its best to just take a screendump and count probably.
16:18:44copperthen I can try rockbox on my Galaxy Nexus
16:18:46AlexPOnly simple, but just something so I can use Rockbox on my shiny new phone :)
16:19:05[Saint]copper: there's nothing stopping you trying it now :)
16:19:06AlexP[Saint]: OK, will do
16:19:16AlexPApart from complte unusability :)
16:19:38[Saint]Grid mode is....fun....but hardly unusable.
16:19:46AlexPI think it essentially is
16:19:51AlexPbut anyway
16:20:14[Saint]I've used touchscreen themes that were less usable than gridmode. All in the author, I guess.
16:24:01AlexPIt appears to be 50px here
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16:32:36kugelpAlexP: the branch has a 768x1024 cabbie port. could possibly adapt it, its not too off
16:33:06AlexPkugelp: Could do, but I'm just making my own simple one for now that does what I want, rather than wrestling with cabbie
16:33:46kugelpdamn, I thought I could trick you into doing the work for me ;-)
16:34:01AlexP:)
16:36:00AlexPkugelp: While you are here... :)
16:36:24AlexPIs there a particular reason why you can skip but not seek using a toucscreen "button" in the sbs?
16:36:32AlexP(if you know) :)
16:36:59kugelpseek can currently only be done in the wps
16:37:13AlexPI know, but is there a reason for that?
16:37:34AlexPAs it would be quite handy to be able to do it in the sbs
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16:38:51kugelpI think there is no real reason, the code happens to be laid out this way
16:39:18AlexPOK, that's good news in that it suggests there is nothing inherently blocking it, just someone to do it :)
16:39:36kugelpthe seek code and corresponding GUI code are tied together
16:39:50kugelpyeah
16:40:26lebelliumhello guys
16:41:40lebelliumwhen selecting the theme ALiEn+ on the R0 and then selecting back another theme, the menu icons don't show up anymore. I have to go to settings>theme settings>show icons to see them again
16:41:53lebelliumis it a problem with the ALiEn+ theme or the other themes?
16:42:19 Nick kugelp is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
16:48:21AlexPkugel: Staus bar works and looks great, thanks :)
16:50:37 Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Bye ;))
16:51:51kugelAlexP: you can toggle it in the debug menu for the fun:-)
16:52:11AlexPoh, cool (although I'll have it on all the time)
16:52:16n1slebellium: sounds like the alien theme disables them and the other themrd don't change that setting
16:52:36[Saint]n1s: beat me to it.
16:52:48[Saint]That's a very likely explanation.
16:54:41lebelliumnls: that's what I thought too but I don't know what to change in my cfg file to prevent that behaviour. For the moment there is "show icons: -" but replacing "-" by "on" or "yes" doesn't seem to work
16:55:14lebelliumeven in the official cabbie there is nothing to prevent that
16:56:14AlexPThis is great with the status bar :)
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17:00
17:02:04[Saint_]lebellium: afaik, you're right...there isn't anything guarding another theme from switching off cabbiev2's icons.
17:02:12[Saint_]you're free to submit a patch :)
17:03:51bertrikI think it helps to reboot after applying a theme
17:04:04[Saint_]that shouldn't change anything.
17:04:20[Saint_]and, if it does, it doesn't help this particular case.
17:04:41bertrikit worked for me in the past
17:05:12[Saint_]rebooting cannot fix a theme not specifying its desired defaults.
17:05:39[Saint_]the "problem" here is that themes assume that another theme won't set a value it doesn't want set.
17:06:28[Saint_]so not only does your theme cfg have to set all the values you want set, it also has to unset all the values you specifically don't want set. etc.
17:07:05lebelliummy bad, it seems that "show icons: on" in the cfg file works.
17:07:21kugelthat's what "safe theme settings" is for
17:07:21[Saint_]lebellium: whoops...did I not say that?
17:07:53[Saint_]kugel: errrr...come again?
17:08:20kugelno, not again :-)
17:08:44[Saint_]In all seriousness, though..."what?"
17:08:44lebelliumNope you did not but I said that it doesn't work while it actually does, I did not check well... so I guess there should be this line in the official cabbiev2 cfg file for any target
17:09:05[Saint_]lebellium: it should be, yes.
17:09:22[Saint_]there's other instances too...scrollbar placement and size, for example.
17:09:35kugelsettings->manage settings->save theme settings writes all theme settings to the cfg, default or not
17:10:05[Saint_]Ahhhhh...."save"
17:10:15[Saint_]right, now I know what you're talking about.
17:10:41kugelthis way you make prevent side effects from previous themes
17:10:53kugels/make//
17:11:06[Saint_]Alternatively, the theme could just not be...y'know, broken :)
17:11:16[Saint_]I should get onto this.
17:11:23kugelsame thing
17:11:33[Saint_]It is pretty shitty behaviour, that's highly avoidable.
17:13:10[Saint_]lebellium: for your own amusement, or interest, or whatever...I'll note this: The setting for show icons should be "-" as opposed to on or off, as then it will respect the user setting.
17:13:27[Saint_]this provides a way for it to "just work" based on what the user wants set.
17:14:04[Saint_](at least, its supposed to...but may very well be broken)
17:15:07lebelliumyes that was "-" in the current version of my theme but that can only work if ALL themes use "-". The Alien+ theme uses "off" so that causes the problem...
17:15:38[Saint_]all themes *should* use "-" :)
17:15:45[Saint_]If they don't, its broken. :)
17:16:18[Saint_]"Thou shalt not force a user definable setting!" (the long lost 11th commandment, given only to me)
17:16:22lebelliumso what's the best to do? make a minor update for my theme with the setting "on" or ask the Alien+ designer to set it to "-"?
17:16:53[Saint_]why would you want to force yours to on?
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17:17:30[Saint_]whats best, is for everyone to respect the user defined setting.
17:18:41kugel[Saint_]: - is another thing
17:19:02[Saint_]kugel: isn't "-" use the user defined setting?
17:19:14kugelto respect a user setting just don't include the setting in the cfg
17:19:39lebelliumthe result is the same no?
17:20:02kugel- is to use the internal fall back for some filename settings
17:20:59kugellike "no backdrop"
17:21:31[Saint_]Hmmmm...I thought that it could also be used to set the current user setting for some things. Perhaps I'm thinking of the past, but I do recall using it this way.
17:21:56kugelset the current setting is
17:22:18[Saint_]thanks, Yoda.
17:22:19kugelthe same thing as not changing it at all
17:23:42kugelI guess - behaves the same since its an invalid value (neither on or off) and thus simply ignored
17:24:20kugelwhich would be the same as not having the line at all in the cfg
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17:26:42[Saint_]this does cause a whole barrel of laughs, doesn't it?: Theme A sets icons off, theme B is set to the user default (which before theme A was applied, lets assume was on), as a result of theme A being previously applied the users preference has now changed...so all themes may as well just bloody hardcode everything and say fuck the defaults as they'll get messed up anyway :)
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17:27:26[Saint_]lebellium: I'm starting to see your predicament very clearly now...
17:29:24[Saint_]What we _should_ do is take a snapshot of the current state of each cfg value a theme wants to change before it is applied, and roll back to those values immediately before applying anohter theme.
17:29:58lebelliumyou get it, that's why I really don't know what to do, I can just say I'm fed up with setting back icons on everytime after I used a theme that hides icons.
17:31:07[Saint_]At the end of the day, its your theme, and if others like it and get a kick out of it...great. But it should be set up in a way that at the very l;east doesn't annoy you :)
17:31:37lebelliumwell I can let it on "-" for the public version and put "on" just for me :p
17:32:07[Saint_]I have a massive sense of deja vu now, going over this again, as there's no "nice" way to handle unsetting values another theme might or might not set.
17:32:22kugelits simple. if theme B is designed for icons then it has to include the means to turn them on
17:32:26[Saint_]It occured to me I have already had this conversation quite some time ago.
17:33:05[Saint_]kugel: but, its not "simple"...as what if the user doesn't want icons on?
17:33:21lebelliumhe has to turn them off manually in the settings
17:33:36[Saint_]you shouldn't really have to go back and re-set a setting after applying a theme.
17:34:44kugelas lebellium said
17:34:52[Saint_]It could be worse, sure, but the way it is now obviously isn't ideal...or this discussion wouldn't have occured and I'd still be in bed :)
17:35:55kugelthere is no such thing like "user defined default"
17:36:14[Saint_]right, that's the problem.
17:36:22kugelthere's a hardcoded default (in the binary) and the current value
17:36:38AlexPShortcuts and Recent Bookmarks use the same icon code :/
17:37:06[Saint_]AlexP: ohhhh...don't get me started on icons :)
17:37:35[Saint_]there's 30 of them, half of them don't get used, and the other half are used in a very weird way.
17:37:45AlexPIt means two menu items get the same icon
17:38:01AlexPAnd seeing as I'm using icons as the major way of navigating
17:38:20[Saint_]Yeah, icons, especially viewer icons, haven't seen love in years.
17:38:45kugelAlexP: you found that some month ago with another theme didn't you?
17:39:02kugelhowever, adding an icon is easier than ever
17:39:36AlexPkugel: Yeah, but I'd forgotten
17:39:54AlexPI reckon I can fettle it with if
17:40:22AlexPkugel: If I changed the icon index I'd have to add a new one to the existing icon sets, which sounds liek work :)
17:40:43[Saint_]and its hardcoded at 31 iirc
17:40:53[Saint_](well, 30 including 0)
17:43:11kugelAlexP: right, but these days icon sets can be generated with ease
17:44:04[Saint_]Only one new icon need be made, really.
17:44:50[Saint_]Well, in actual fact, one of the many icons that never gets used could be replaced.
17:50:51AlexPI've worked round it with "%?if(%LT,=,Shortcuts)<%xd(c)|%xd(o)>"
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19:17:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:27:34webguest68Hi, are there any plans to add mp4 support to the mpeg player?
19:28:18AlexPNo
19:28:32AlexPAs in, nobody is doing the work
19:28:41AlexPBut if someone did then I'm sure it would be welcomed
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20:58:02Mode"#rockbox -o bertrik" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
20:58:35Mode"#rockbox -o AlexP" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
20:59:56Mode"#rockbox -o [7]" by [7] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven)
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21:12:54AlexPWhen using %?mv to show a viewport while volume is changing, when the shown viewport goes away the wps under where it was shown doesn't redraw
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21:13:14AlexPIs this an involved thing to fix does anyoen know?
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21:28:58Szatanhi
21:29:56Szatani have some frezes on fuze+ while device playing music and unused, report to bugtracker?
21:30:21[Saint]AlexP: its bloody involved. You should check out the code I have to make the viewports do the dance I want them to with the conditions needed.
21:30:45alexbobpfuze+ makes me cry
21:30:51alexbobpwhy have you forsaken buttons, sandisk!
21:31:05[Saint]Basically, "thou shalt not draw one viewport overtop another"
21:31:15AlexP[Saint]: Yeah, can't not do that
21:31:20AlexPIt is where the AA is
21:31:33AlexPI meant more fix in Rockbox proper, not the skin :)
21:32:07[Saint]You could draw AA to the backdrop.
21:32:30AlexPoh, OK
21:32:36AlexPyeah, that'd work
21:32:38AlexPcheers :)
21:32:39[Saint]I didn't realise the viewport in question contained no dynamic info.
21:32:43Szatanhmm, i wailt while rockbox support sd card >64 gb on fuze+
21:33:20[Saint]There's no limit to the support of sdcards on Rockbox as I understand it.
21:33:56[Saint]Where does it say there's a hard limit on sdcard size?
21:34:02Szatanit is hardware lock or bootloader?
21:34:24[Saint]What lock are you talking about? No such thing exists.
21:34:45Szatanmemory card
21:35:42[Saint]The fact that the Sansa firmware doesn't support size-X sdcards has no bearing on Rockbox.
21:37:19Szatankk :)
21:38:21Szatansansa can work with 300 Ohm headphones?
21:38:41funman[Saint]: SD go only up to 32gb
21:39:20[Saint]funman: after which it becomes sdhc which is functionally identical no?
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21:39:30funmanno, SD go to 2GB and SDHC go to 32GB
21:39:49funmanSDXC has another larger limit though
21:39:56Szatanfunman, sd 2gb, sdhc, from 4 gb to 32 gb, sdxc >64 gb
21:40:26[Saint]Ohhhh...whoops. I though sdhc was 64
21:40:45[Saint]Consider the last few minutes retracted.
21:42:28Szatanin Poland microsdhc card 32 gb cost 115 pln in dollars ~34 usd
21:42:41Szatan10 class
21:44:14[Saint]Offtopic, but...."my God that's not cheap"
21:44:16Szatanhifiman vs sansa audio quality?
21:44:29[Saint]Subjective.
21:49:39kugelAlexP: works fine in git cabbiev2, no?
21:50:01kugelthe track info is redrawn when the volume popup goes away
21:50:42kugelI believe (but not sure) the trick is that the track info is also a conditional viewport with the exact opposite conditions
21:51:00[Saint]Its AA, and I assume he's only partially covering it.
21:53:58[Saint]The solution is to draw the as into the backdrop buffer so it doesn't have to do a(n impossible) partial update.
21:54:18AlexPyeah, I'v put the AA into the backdrop layer and it works
21:54:56[Saint]*AA (PS: I say solution like its tested and proven, its not, but the theory is sound :))
21:55:05[Saint]Oh, great timing!
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22:08:32[Saint]AlexP: one thing I just thought of (not sure why I'm mentioning it really as there's no way {I can think of} around it) is that AA may take quite a bit longer to refresh on track change/skip now than you're used to.
22:09:14AlexPBecause it is in the backdrop?
22:09:22*[Saint] nods
22:10:05AlexPstill hasn't refreshed after 30 seconds :/
22:10:10AlexP(just testing)
22:10:36AlexP1 minute
22:10:40AlexPThis is useless :)
22:11:22kugelI think the backdrop buffer is supposed to be redrawn on track change. file a bug report
22:11:35AlexPHasn't changed yet after 2 minutes :)
22:12:09AlexPkugel: I'm slightly reticent as I'm using your branch not master
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22:15:32[Saint]I believe kugel is right, track change is the probably the least frequently it _should_ update. A few events should (now at least that drawing stuff in the backdrop buffer is possible) force a refresh too.
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22:17:05[Saint]Touched == true should probably trigger an update, for instance.
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22:30:26saratoga[Saint]: you were right before, SDHC has no real upper limit
22:30:39saratogasince hardware-wise SDHC and SDXC are identical
22:31:05funmanthe limit is in the descriptor bits
22:31:15saratogayeah, but its petabytes IIRC
22:31:38[Saint]That's slightly pleasing. I thought I had gone insane but I dismissed it as "one of those days".
22:31:57saratogaso large no silicon based fabrication process will ever fit that many bytes into a microsd form factor
22:32:28saratoga(identical ignoring the backwards compatible high speed modes that SDXC offers that is)
22:32:31bertrikwe'll quote you on that 10 years from now :)
22:32:41saratogago for it :)
22:32:49funmanapparently there are 22 bits for number of blocks and that is left shifted 10 bits
22:33:02funmanso 4GB * 512 bytes blocks?
22:33:26saratogais it that small?
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22:33:37saratogafor some reason I thought it was petabytes, could be wrong
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22:34:18saratoga"The Secure Digital Extended Capacity (SDXC) format supports cards up to 2 TB (2048 GB)"
22:34:21saratogaah you're right
22:35:12saratogaso roughly 5 die shrinks until SDXC is out of room
22:36:44funmanThis field is expanded to 22 bits and can indicate up to 2 TBytes (It is the same as the maximum
22:36:47funmanmemory space specified by a 32-bit block address.)
22:36:50funman(For SDHC)
22:36:57saratogaalthough i guess five die shirnks would mean flash transistors only about 10 atoms wide, so maybe that will be tough to keep the gate floating :)
22:39:29[Saint]Heh.
22:40:38*[Saint] wishes he could get "[Saint]: you were right before" framed and hung on his wall.
22:40:58[Saint]Then, I could keep pointing to that one time :)
22:42:45saratogai wonder how well fat32 works with a 2TB drive
22:42:47saratogaanyone tried?
22:46:18[Saint]Can't say I have personally, no.
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