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#rockbox log for 2012-07-30

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01:39:56***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:00
02:11:37saratogabertrik: its normal that a new codec can't decode on PP in real time without optimization
02:11:58saratogai think originally WMA std needed something like 200 MHz for real time on PP, now its about 30mhz
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03:00
03:25:24saratogais gerrit not working quite right for anyone else?
03:26:38saratogaweird, its fine on chrome on one pc, but not the other
03:30:38saratogahaha i just noticed the silk fixed point macros are named after the arm assembly op codes that implement them (e.g. silk_SMLAWB, silk_SMULWB)
03:34:13gmaxwellsaratoga: yep.
03:34:38saratogabut theres no macro_arm.h that just calls the arm asm?
03:35:08gmaxwell(The CELT fixed macros are not named so helpfully but are all modeled after operations which are fast on ARM and varrious DSPs, and can also be translated fairly straight forwardly)
03:35:26gmaxwellsaratoga: No. There is no platform specific optimizations in the code base at all.
03:35:55saratogaok well that should be easy to fix
03:37:55gmaxwellRight. We just didn't want to deal with them while the codebase was moving a lot, and didn't want to complexify the 1.0 reference implementation.
03:39:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:43:06saratogahow do celt and silk fit together? on higher bitrates is it mostly silk thats being called?
03:44:36saratogasorry celt i mean
03:45:26gmaxwellThere are three main modes, one is all the linear predictor code ('silk'), one is all the MDCT code ('celt'), and one uses the LP code for the low frequences and MDCT for the high frequencies.
03:46:37gmaxwellAt the lowest rates you'll get the all LP, at the highest rates you'll get all MDCT. And the combined in between rates... the thresholds depend on the encoding settings, and in the expiremental encoder on automatic analysis of the signal.
03:46:59saratogais one of them likely to be more compuationally expensive then the other?
03:48:10gmaxwellThe LP encoder is enormously more expensive than the MDCT encoder, but the MDCT decoder is more expensive than the LP one though the difference isn't that huge.
03:48:44saratogai guess for benchmarking purposes we should make example files of each case
03:48:45gmaxwell(and may be almost zero with an optimized mdct decoder on some platforms)
03:49:01gmaxwellsaratoga: There is a set of official test vectors that abuse the hell out of the codec.
03:49:27saratogaare there relatively representative samples ?
03:49:35gmaxwell(and you should setup machinery so that you can test any optimizations you do which aren't bit exact to make sure they don't make you lose quality on them)
03:49:35saratogaideally our benchmarks should try to be realistic
03:49:57gmaxwellNo, they're unrealistic in order to push the corner cases. You don't want realistic in order to tell if you'll play realtime or not.
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07:30:31amiconn(re opus codec) Did anyone look into cf optimisations yet?
07:39:32saratogaamiconn: theres basically no optimization at all for it yet
07:39:59saratogabut shouldn't be too hard, they broke out most of the critial stuff into header files, so figuring out what to convert to asm should be easy enough
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07:40:06saratogaIRAM might take a bit more work though
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07:52:27*[Saint] has a pretty ugly version of "fuzzy time" working in the status bar.
07:53:50[Saint]I'm guessing its onlt suited for app targets, due to screen size limitations, making it not really suited for anything at all...as app targets will have ways and means of providing this via the host os.
07:53:56[Saint]...but, it works! :)
07:57:25[Saint]I'm not even sure if "fuzzy time" is the right term here, I didn't know what its actually called. Its the whole "01:22" == "Half past One", "00:13" == "Quarter past Midnight" thing.
07:58:10[Saint]Ms [Saint] has some issues with digital/analogue clocks, so this came from attempting to make her life a little easier.
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10:52:13kugelsaratoga, gmaxwell: perhaps we should replace all our test_files with the opus test vector if they are so useful for testing code performance in specific cases
11:00
11:05:41JdGordonthey are probably only useful to test opus corner cases
11:08:15Zagorkugel: I'd say complement, don't replace
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11:19:34kugelfwiw, rockbox on arm doesnt compile under thumb2 currently
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14:47:05freqmoddoes anybody know how to merge change 301 in to change 300
14:47:27freqmodgerrit told me to squash my commits when i tried to commit to the 300-change :(
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14:57:47gevaertsZagor: have you had time to look at the manual issue yet?
14:58:10Zagorunfortunately, no
14:59:58gevaertsfreqmod: I *think* "git reset <last-commit-id>" will remove that commit while leaving the changed files alone, so they're ready to commit again, and then git commit −−amend will let you change the "new" latest commit. I'm not at all sure if that's the best way though
15:00
15:07:30kugelfreqmod: then squash the commits :p
15:07:57kugelcheck out a new branch (from master) and merge −−squash the commits into it
15:08:11kugeljust make sure you preserve change-id line of the first commit
15:08:35kugelhowever gevaerts way will also work
15:08:42gevaertsWell...
15:08:52gevaertsMy way will work if your commits are all at the top
15:09:08gevaertsIf not, you'd have to rebase -i first
15:09:32gevaertsAnd it won't be very handy with more than one or two commits
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15:40:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:45:49amayerdo we ever figure out why Doom wasnt working on some targets?
15:46:49gevaertswhich targets?
15:48:34amayerwell someone mentioned that it didnt work. then I checked my Ipodclassic and it didnt work
15:48:59amayersomeone also said Snake or Snake 2 didnt work. but that worked on mine
15:50:23gevaertsI'd say "someone" needs to submit bug reports
15:51:41amayerthere was an active discussion about it in the IRC and I figured they were working on it. but the version of rockbox from 7-26(daily build) still wouldnt load rockdoom
15:52:14gevaertsAh, you mean the bflt discussion? That's not about the master branch
15:52:54amayerlet me install the current build and test it out.
15:52:56amayerIf it still doesnt work I will search for a bug then post one if i dont find anything
15:54:31amayerwhat is the bflt branch?
15:55:16gevaertshttp://gerrit.rockbox.org/286
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16:01:34amayerso its a plugin compiler for rockbox?
16:03:46Torneno.
16:04:00Torneif you aren't a edeveloper it's unlikely to even mean anything to you at all :)
16:04:03Tornelet alone be useful/interesting.
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16:08:09amayer well i plan on doing some development. im just trying to learn my way around when ever something pops up
16:09:03amayeri know i cant just say "teach me everything about your system" so when ever i get a chance to check out something you guys are talking about i like to
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16:10:57gevaertsThe idea is to be able to load plugins (and codecs, and possibly later other chunks of code) at any address instead of a compile-time fixed address
16:11:48amayeris there a rockbox simulator for linux?
16:11:49amayeri checked the extras page and was redirected to rasher.dk but all the links point to windows binarys
16:12:04amayergevaerts: thanks. that sounds interesting
16:12:04gevaertsThat's because windows people typically can't compile easily
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16:14:37amayeri havent checked out the git site yet but is that where i get the linux simulator?
16:15:43TheLemonManhrm, is there some sort of profiler ? I changed the lcd code to send framebuffer data in 16bit packets and want to see if there's some speedup
16:17:35Torneamayer: the simulator is built from the same source code as rockbox, yes
16:18:15amayerTorne: thank you.
16:18:38gevaertsTheLemonMan: when running configure, use "a" for advanced, and build the test plugins
16:18:48gevaertsThere's an LCD speed test plugin
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16:34:46TheLemonManthis damn small lcd is cutting the error messages :|
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16:45:13amayernot sure who to talk to but Ipodclassic doesnt show up when creating a new bug report in the bug tracker
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16:47:56Zagoramayer: added now
16:48:08amayerZagor: thank you
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17:08:12amayergevaerts: just posted the doom bug FS #12721
17:08:14fs-bluebothttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12721 3Doom hangs on "Starting Graphics engine" (bugs, unconfirmed)
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20:11:11freqmodkugel: how should i squash the commits
20:11:33freqmodi want to have my commit as a separate commit from bertriks commits
20:18:24kugelfroggyman: the same way as i described
20:18:39kugelexcept you don't create the branch from master, but from bertrik's last commit instead
20:19:25freqmodi have a branch based on the last bertrik commit
20:19:34freqmodand push it to /refs/for/master
20:19:44kugelfor to merge single commits, it's easiest to do git rebase -i, though. you can nerge the top-most commit by amending to the previous one
20:20:23freqmodi do a rebase -i master
20:20:40freqmodand then i squash all commits except the one at the start of the file?
20:20:49 Quit saratoga (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
20:21:05kugelno, you want to keep bertrik's ones as is
20:21:22freqmodwhy do i need to squash at all then?
20:21:41freqmodi have only one commit which i want to add to the change
20:21:50kugeli thought you wanted your changes as a single commit on top of bertrik's ones
20:21:59kugelor do you want them merged with bertrik's?
20:22:20freqmodi want to apply a patch (one commit) to change 300
20:22:31kugelah, okay
20:22:42kugelyes then edit all commits except the first one
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20:23:50kugelfor each rebase step simply do "git commit -va −−amed"
20:24:02kugelamend*
20:26:58freqmodif i try to squash all the commits except the first one i get an horrible merge conflict of all the files
20:27:11freqmod(using rebase -i)
20:27:30kugel?
20:27:54kugeldo a plain "git rebase master"
20:28:07kugelbefore that make sure that master is up-to-date
20:31:46freqmodthere i got a clean rebase
20:31:55freqmodi had some work done on the local master branch
20:32:20kugelalright, now retry the rebase -i
20:34:00freqmodok, rebased
20:38:28freqmodthere it work
20:38:48freqmodthanks for helping me to untangle my version control mess
20:39:20freqmodnow i only have to verify it still works after all the merging
20:39:25freqmod:P
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20:49:25freqmodbtw i wrote a codec 2 interface for decoding codec2 in rockbox
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20:49:51freqmodbut no fixed point of codec2 exsits yet so it does only work in the simulator with an hack to link with libm
20:49:51 Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@ip545056ba.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl)
20:58:41freqmodhave anybody ensured that the opus codec is GPL compatible
21:00
21:00:27freqmodi saw something similar to the original bsd license http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#OriginalBSD
21:02:19gevaertsIt's not. It's based on the modified bsd license
21:03:27gevaertsThe original had a bit about having to mention the software in all advertising materials
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21:06:27gmaxwellfreqmod: Yes. The new bsd license is not the old bsd license.
21:06:40gmaxwellAnd Xiph uses the newbsd license at _rms_'s recommendation.
21:09:15freqmodhmm
21:10:35freqmod- Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright
21:10:35freqmod9 notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the
21:10:35freqmod10 documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
21:11:15freqmodis this not the advertising cause?
21:11:17gevaertsNo
21:11:27gevaertsAll advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software
21:11:33gevaertsmust display the following acknowledgement:
21:11:51gevaertshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD_licenses
21:12:56freqmodok, so it is compatible with the GPL as long as it doesn't require the acknowledgement in advertising material related to the software
21:13:28freqmod?
21:14:00gevaertsThe three-clause BSD license (which is the one Xiph uses) is regarded as GPL-compatible, yes
21:15:43*freqmod does still not understand the difference in principles between those causes, but it is ok as long as it is regarded GPL compatible :P
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21:16:49gmaxwellfreqmod: because the three clause requirement is pretty much exactly like the attribution and disclaimers required in the GPL; but it doesn't require you to do crazy things external to the actual distribution of the software.
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21:17:28gmaxwellAnd, in any case, if it were incompatible you have bigger problems because libvorbis,tremor,libogg,speex and many other non-xiph things in rockbox are under the same license. :)
21:17:38gevaertsRequiring mentions in all advertising means that if the four-clause BSD license had "won", you couldn't advertise a linux distribution in a magazine ad, you'd need several posters
21:17:58freqmodhehe
21:18:13AlexP_gevaerts: I can write really really small, will that help?
21:18:32gevaertsAlexP_: I was taking that into account :)
21:18:37AlexP_hmmm
21:18:47AlexP_Good job it got dropped then :)
21:19:03 Nick AlexP_ is now known as AlexP (~alex@rockbox/staff/AlexP)
21:19:17gmaxwellI think the third clause is pointless and our newer code doesn't use it (it uses the two-clause form), but the IETF required the three clause.
21:19:48gmaxwell(Well not just 'I think' — attornies advise that it's pointless)
21:20:20gevaertsAs in "already covered by law", I assume?
21:20:52freqmodthe copyright law depends on the country though
21:21:18gmaxwellgevaerts: Exactly.
21:21:53CIA-5Commit 0a645d2 in rockbox by 03Thomas Martitz: autoresume: Use GUI browser instead of text entry to select autoresumable folders.
21:21:54CIA-5Commit 63d2762 in rockbox by 03Thomas Martitz: Database: Support for multiple search roots.
21:21:56CIA-5Commit 8c655cf in rockbox by 03Thomas Martitz: New GUI browser to select one (or more) folders.
21:22:02gevaertsfreqmod: most countries have laws that say you can't just use someone's name to advertise stuff without prior agreement
21:22:14gevaertsAnd that's basically all that clause says
21:25:16CIA-563d2762 build result: 6 errors, 0 warnings (Thomas Martitz committed)
21:25:20 Quit lebellium (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
21:26:57kugelannoying db tool :)
21:29:28gmaxwellgevaerts: the term is also constructed without clear termination behavior so actually trying to use it to achieve that end would be messy.
21:30:20*gevaerts nods
21:30:57kugelhm, where is tagcache_build() declared? the db tool calls it wrongly now
21:31:26kugelah of course, not at all :p
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21:40:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:45:22kugelhmmm
21:45:55kugelthe db tool doesnt seem to define HAVE_TAGCACHE, that should give warnings during compilation
21:46:04kugelit does here but not in the build system
21:52:49kugeldatabase.make is slightly busted
21:53:00kugelbacksticks dont work in makefiles do they?
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21:53:43gevaertsLike most tool makefiles in the tree, database.make is a bit hackish
21:54:10gevaertsMade by changing bits until it appeared to work :)
21:54:44kugelthat's engineering! :)
21:54:51AlexPtrue that
21:55:18kugelthe backsticks are not the cause of the problems though
21:55:19*gevaerts denies all responsibility and tells people not to believe what git claims about who originally added the file
21:55:37TheLemonMan backticks are the evil, just use $( <cmd> ) for compatibility sake
21:55:54gevaertsTheLemonMan: that means something else in make
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21:56:47TheLemonManhave i ever told you how awesome is cmake ? :)
21:58:49ZagorTheLemonMan: wrong crowd :-)
21:59:28AlexPah, Zagor!
21:59:40AlexPZagor: Did anyone mention that the online manuals are dead?
21:59:53ZagorAlexP: yes, I'm looking at that now
22:00
22:00:00AlexPOK great, thanks
22:00:27ZagorI'm struggling a bit with the extremely verbose output of latex though
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22:00:49AlexPyeah, 'tis rubbish
22:00:51 Quit perrikwp (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
22:01:14AlexPI don't suppose the script that cleans up the pdf builds helps?
22:01:20 Quit perrikwp_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:01:31kugelaha! the db tool doesnt actually define a target (like IRIVIER_H300)
22:07:05 Join perrikwp [0] (~quassel@cpe-024-163-024-033.triad.res.rr.com)
22:07:25ZagorAlexP: what script is that? something in gerrit I missed?
22:08:08AlexPZagor: In git I think
22:08:10AlexPOne mp
22:08:12AlexPOne mp
22:08:14AlexPffs
22:08:16AlexPMO!
22:08:24 Quit Totalled (Quit: PETTAN PETTAN, TSURUPETTAN!)
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22:08:58AlexPZagor: f8eb8c8
22:10:40Zagorhmm? which repo?
22:10:52AlexPhttp://git.rockbox.org/?p=rockbox.git;a=commit;h=f8eb8c8
22:11:45Zagorthanks
22:11:54AlexPno worries
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22:18:03Zagornope, doesn't help
22:18:35KiwiCamHi. I'm getting an Apache Error for the Online Manual links. http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-sansaclipzip/rockbox-build.html
22:19:57bertrikfreqmod, you killed the commit message (it had a nice overview of done/todo)! :)
22:20:08freqmod:/
22:20:15freqmodi don't like all this squashing
22:21:04ZagorKiwiCam: yeah they don't build right now. I'm trying to see why.
22:21:54bertrikfreqmod, yeah I get the feeling that it should be possible to make cooperation a lot easier with git
22:22:35freqmodwith plain git the development happens in a separate branch with merges between each developer
22:22:49freqmodand then it is merged to the upstream (master) branch
22:22:54KiwiCamIt was just in case none had noticed. Got the PDF instead. All is good.
22:22:57kugelbertrik: you can restore commit messages from the older patchsets
22:23:00gevaertsYes, gerrit isn't really suitable for more complex work
22:23:04freqmodbut gerrit insists on all changes been made relative to the trunk
22:23:15kugelit shouldnt have been lost if amended properly
22:23:21AlexPZagor: Can't help I'm afraid, the html manual builds here
22:23:45gevaertsWell, at least, the way we use gerrit isn't really suitable for more complex work
22:23:53kugelgerrit is made for code review, not for collaboration
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22:26:03kugelyou should probably use github or so during development phase
22:28:29bertrikdoes github allow several people to commit to the same repo?
22:29:07kugelyes
22:29:46gevaertsI'd say we should consider seeing if we can use gerrit for non-master branches for this sort of thing
22:29:58kugeli agree
22:30:27kugeli think it allows restricting push access to non-master branches
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22:33:25bluebrotherthe review thingy in gerrit work exactly that way (at least as according to my understanding :)
22:33:36bluebrotheroh
22:33:39*bluebrother misread
22:33:53bluebrotherthough it's not completely off :)
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22:43:16kugelhm
22:43:34kugelwhy does CFLAGS not include TARGET_INC when generating dependencies for the db tool?
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22:43:53kugelit doesnt make sense to me, root.make adds it to CFLAGS at the very top
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22:46:30kugelah, database.root overrides INCLUDES
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22:54:36TheLemonMandoes anyone have an ipod with emcore and able to run ipodcrypt ?
23:00
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23:21:00Zagorit appears just updating latex fixed it. we'll see in the morning.
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23:45:35kugeli have the db tool fixed, apparently
23:49:55 Quit joe_ (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
23:50:06 Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Bye ;))
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23:53:00TheDarkPiratepeople, does somebody know about handling podcasts in rockbox? in my computer I have Linux...
23:53:07kugelI *think* I managed to repair the db tool
23:54:04 Quit perrikwp_ (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
23:54:53 Quit prof_wolfff (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
23:57:17 Quit guymann (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
23:57:49[Saint]TheDarkPirate: I think you need to be more descriptive before anyone can actually help you.
23:58:03[Saint]"handling podcasts" is more than a little vague.

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