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#rockbox log for 2012-10-20

00:01:11 Join Clear_runway [0] (~Clear_run@74.221.202.246)
00:02:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:02:33 Quit bertrik (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
00:27:06KiwiCamJdGordon: This is an example of the ramdom tag you gave reviously "%?xx<some|set|of|items|to|randomly|choose|from>" which I gather is patch #193, but that same tag seems to be also now for the /path/to/file #334
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02:50:04nrgi'm wanting to encode some video for the clip zip
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03:05:12nrgawesome
03:05:15nrgworked perfect
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04:41:37 Join MilesR [0] (~d83a7ea9@www.haxx.se)
04:43:25MilesRHi quick qurstion: I was under the impression Rockbox 3.12 would support Opus decoding but there's no mention of that in the release notes. Did someone just forget to mention it on the site or is official Opus support being pushed to 3.13?
04:46:12derf19:10:27 < the-kyle> polemon: Opus was pushed into git master after the release was branched. The 3.12 release doesn't support Opus, but git head does.
04:47:57MilesROh okay. Does that mean a 3.12.x maintenance release would support it if one came out before the next major version?
04:48:16 Part amayer
04:49:11derfI'm not expert on Rockbox branching policies, but my expectation is that a maintenance release would come off the 3.12 branch, and wouldn't have new features from master.
04:49:14derfs/not/no/
04:49:40MilesRAlright, thanks.
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05:52:06amayerwho runs the gerrit server?
05:52:59amayerthe other day we were talking about CIA being gone. i was just looking in the ubuntu software center and it says there is a CIA hook that can give IRC updates
05:53:36amayerim not sure what OS the server is running but if its debian it might be worth looking into
06:00
06:02:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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06:42:25the-kyleI'm having trouble playing the og vorbis files from LibriVox on my clipv1. If I plug it into the computer, the files play, but they don't play on the clipv1. They also play without problems on the clip+.
06:51:32the-kyleI see nothing wrong with the files I'm trying to play. They look like they were encoded using ffmpeg, and I don't recall having any problems with ffmpeg vorbis files in the past. Not sure I tried it on a clipv1 until now, but there's no indication that this should cause a problem.
06:55:19 Join eckoit [0] (~ryan@50.65.10.24)
06:58:19the-kyleI guess I could download the 128k mp3 files and encode them with sox/oggenc myself, as I believe this is what LibriVox is doing using ffmpeg, but I wanted to just be able to play the files they already have.
06:59:07*the-kyle likes the smaller ogg vorbis files.
06:59:27mimoidCan I hear the difference between 44.1khz, 48khz, and 92khz?8
07:00
07:04:55the-kyleAn example of a file that doesn't play on the clipv1: http://archive.org/download/kids_short_works_vol014_1110_librivox/childrensshortworks014_01_pyramusandthisbe_gc.ogg
07:06:20the-kyleI was trying to put the ogg vorbis format for that whole collection on my daughter's clipv1.
07:29:00the-kyleOh well, I got smaller files encoding the 128k mp3 files from LibriVox anyway. But it may still help to find out why the file I linked doesn't play on a clipv1, if for no other reason than to save space and also eliminate the need to transcode to get the smaller files.
07:30:55the-kyleDisclaimer: this may not even be a really major issue, since I only tested the Vorbis files. I didn't try the 64k mp3 files, as I thought Vorbis at that size would sound better.
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07:47:06Tom_Hankshello
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07:47:39Tom_Hanksanyone here?
07:49:49amayerTom_Hanks: whats up?
07:50:01amayercan someone remove this from the spam filter?
07:50:04amayerhttp://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,39326
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08:01:36Tom_Hankshello
08:01:38Tom_Hankssorry
08:01:43amayerwhats up?
08:01:47Tom_Hanksim having a little issue with rock box
08:01:53Tom_Hanksjust installed it on a ipod 4g
08:02:11Tom_Hanksand deleted all the music itunes p
08:02:31Tom_Hanksput on it and i dont know how to resync it so it shows up in the data base in Rockbox
08:02:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:03:00 Quit ruskie (Excess Flood)
08:03:12amayeryou cant sync rockbox with itunes
08:03:50amayeryou need to find the music on your hard drive and move it manually to the hard drive part of your ipod(anywhere but .apps or .rockbox)
08:03:53Tom_Hanksyeah i know, i deleted the stuff that was on it, bought the ipod from ebay, ive got the new stuff in a music folder on the root of it
08:04:16amayerso the music shows up when you go to "Files" right?
08:04:33Tom_Hanksyeahshit i think i might be retarded
08:04:44amayerits all good
08:05:27amayerif you want it in the database you go to settings -> General settings -> database
08:05:28Tom_Hanksyeah i am, i usally use the itouchs and im ust to having each artist's albums being under one item, this is like the old days with sansa's
08:05:29amayerthen click initialize now
08:06:23Tom_Hanksokay
08:06:28Tom_Hanksthank you very much
08:06:29amayeryou can also adjust the other settings in them menu to suit your liking
08:06:50amayerif you would like to rate songs and such you need to turn on "gather runtime data"
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11:04:30bluebrother^the-kyle: check if the vorbis files have id3 tags. If they do it's expected for them not to play in Rockbox (id3 tags are not allowed in vorbis files but some tools to add them)
11:05:40*bluebrother^ spots there was a link posted.
11:05:55bluebrother^hmm, that file doesn't. Need to try that on a player later
11:07:49bluebrother^mimoid: no, if you believe Monty: http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
11:11:45mimoidi believe in monty
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11:16:46derfbluebrother^: One thing I will note is that it has a serial number with the high bit set.
11:17:14mimoidalriht
11:17:15mimoidthanks bluebrother^
11:20:15 Join lebellium [0] (~chatzilla@g231205204.adsl.alicedsl.de)
11:21:32derfbluebrother^: By the way, I've made a substantial number of fixes to Tremor upstream in the past two years.
11:21:47derfYou guys might want to consider updating your branch.
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11:31:30JdGordonKiwiCam: well yes, you'd have to edit one of the patches so the tags dont overlap
11:33:42lebelliumJdGordon: I'm still insterested by a random patch but that doesn't apply every second (I'd like the album art to be chosen 1x at random until the next song)
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11:40:06mimoidis tremor's bitstream stable
11:44:10derf"Tremor's bitstream" is Vorbis.
11:44:16derfIt's been stable for over a decade.
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11:51:51mimoidderf: I didn't know what it was, thought it was something else
11:52:11derfSurprise.
11:52:37derfTremor is just an integer-only Vorbis decoder.
11:53:06mimoidderf: What is the other codec that is between vorbis and speex?
11:53:26derfI'm not sure I understand your question.
11:53:46mimoidWell there was this voice codec that was higher fidelity and could also do more than just voice
11:53:52mimoidbut was low bandwidth enough to use for SIP etc
11:54:12derfYou mean Opus.
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11:54:16mimoidProbably that
11:54:25derf(I'm not sure why that would be "between" Vorbis and Speex)
11:55:07mimoidWhat I mean between is that it fills a need that sits between a music(primarly) codec and a voice codec
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11:56:07mimoidderf: By the by, would you know if the Sansa Clip+ would be able to use Vorbis or need to utilize Tremor?
11:56:16mimoidDoes it have an FPU or what
11:56:31 Quit pretty_function (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
11:57:18mimoidderf: I guess OPUS is way more general purpose than the other codecs
11:57:25 Quit fs-bluebot (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
11:57:26derfAFAIK the Clip+ doesn't have an FPU to speak of.
11:57:29mimoidnevermind
11:57:44mimoidderf: So, Tremor would be the software used to decode .oga
11:57:45derfBut I don't think rockbox ships a libvorbis (floating-point) implementation at all.
11:57:51derfYes.
11:57:53mimoidOh, hm.
11:58:14 Quit bluebrother^ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
11:58:38mimoidI guess it would be worthwhile to cross compile the latest source for flashing? Or is there not much difference between what is on the FTPs now and what is in development
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11:59:15KiwiCamJdGordon: Thanks for the info. Will the File/to/path option make it into the current build?
11:59:45JdGordonnot any time soon
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12:02:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:03:13KiwiCamOK.
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12:09:22mimoidi mean honestly i thought it was impressive we could bring him in for the interview here: http://www.razume.com/documents/28017
12:09:30mimoidoops, shit
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13:04:39lovasoaI'm currently diving into calculator plugin code, and the first comment in the code is :
13:04:40lovasoa- Right now, only accept "num, operator (+,-,*,/), num, =" input sequence.
13:04:40lovasoa Input "3, +, 5, -, 2, =", the calculator will only do 5-2 and result = 3
13:04:40DBUGEnqueued KICK lovasoa
13:04:40lovasoaBut this limitation has visibly been removed since the comment was written
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16:02:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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16:07:02guymannit's common for comments to be out of date, feel free to update it ;)
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17:08:31bjoernbhi, i purchased sansa clip zip 8gb. i started it put it in msc mode then plugged it in via usb and it says connected. when i use the rockbox-utility it says it cannot detect mount point.
17:09:15bjoernbi am running linux.
17:11:19bjoernbwhen the sansa is connected i can not use the menu. it is just loading and connected. i have to detach the usb cable.
17:11:46bjoernbi do not know where in the filesystem the sansa
17:12:12bjoernbis dmesg says /dev/sdb but i cannot choose it from the rb-utility
17:13:13Horscht/dev/sdb is the device
17:13:35Horschtyou need to know the mount point, usualy it's somewhere in /mnt or /media
17:15:13Horschtif it's not in there, try "mkdir /mnt/sansa" then "mount /dev/sdb /mnt/sansa"
17:18:52bjoernbthe utility only lists /run/shm and /run/lock to choose. i mounted the device to /mnt
17:19:07bjoernbdo i have to run the utility as root?
17:21:26Horschtthat I don't know
17:22:30bjoernbwhen i run as root i can choose /mnt
17:22:38bjoernbnow it is copying the data
17:22:52bjoernbpackage installation finished successfully
17:25:44 Quit pretty_function (Remote host closed the connection)
17:27:01bjoernbrockbox is running. thanks for the help Horscht
17:27:03bjoernbbye
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18:01:51Miryea
18:02:07Mirin linux you have to be root to use tyhe rockbox utility
18:02:22gevaertsYou don't, in general
18:02:39Mirannoying as hell as it can ruin some of the player's permissions bbut i have not had any serious issues
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18:02:59gevaertsYou obviously need write access to the filesystem, but that doesn't imply root
18:03:20Mirin my experience in ubuntu and in suse and knoppix and puppy i have to be root to use the rockbox utility to install rockbox or update a device
18:03:54gevaertsAnd for *some* players (most notably ipods and old sansas) you need to be able to access raw partitions, which does indeed usually mean root
18:04:03gevaertsBut that's only for the bootloader
18:04:33gevaertsOf course if you mount the FAT filesystem as root without uid= or similar, you'll need root to copy files
18:25:04AlexPMir: You really don't, except for bootlader installation on some devices
18:25:12AlexPAs gevaerts says, it does depend how you mount it
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19:48:15the-kylebluebrother: Thanks for the help with the Vorbis files. I'll look for id3 tags in the files, but I'm not sure that's the issue, as these files play fine on a clip+, but not on a clipv1.
19:48:19saratogathe clipv1 can't play some old vorbis files due to lack of RAM
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19:48:43saratogai think the official encoder stopped producing those files before vorbis went 1.0 though
19:49:46the-kyleYes, I think the clip+ has the same problem with pre 1.0 files. But Librivox has only been in existance since 2006, so their Vorbis encoder should be much newer than the one that is known to cause a problem.
19:50:46saratogawhat does it use for encoding vorbis?
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19:51:02the-kylelavc, presumably from ffmpeg.
19:51:53CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
19:51:53*the-kyle was discussing ogg pagination in ffmpeg as it relates to Opus in the #opus channel yesterday. Could there be a pagination issue that is causing problems on older players?
19:52:02the-kylewith vorbis?
19:52:35saratogathe awful ffmpeg encoder ?
19:52:41the-kyleYes, that thing.
19:53:30saratogai don't know how that encoder works, it may also not be possible to decode
19:53:38saratogano one should be using that though
19:53:46saratogaits not meant for actual audio encoding, its more of a proof of concept
19:55:28the-kyleThere is an "experimental" vorbis encoder in ffmpeg, but it warns against using it. Using ffmpeg with libvorbis still produces files that indicate they are encoded using lavc though.
19:57:16the-kyleI don't know Librivox's command line for encoding, but I would imagine it looks like
19:57:16the-kyleffmpeg -i inputfile.mp3 -acodec libvorbis -aq 3 outputfile.ogg
19:58:04*the-kyle may need to find out the exact encoding parameters from the forum.
19:59:32the-kyleNormally, I just use sox for something like this, as my build has mp3 decoding and encoding built in, and Librivox takes a 128k mp3 and transcodes to 64k mp3 and I believe -q3 Vorbis, likely in parallel.
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20:00:28the-kyleAnd since I know Sox is using whatever libvorbis I have installed, it just works.
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20:01:19*the-kyle needs to try encoding using the ffmpeg command line above to see if even using libvorbis it has this problem on a clipv1
20:02:11the-kyleIf so, depending on what OS Librivox uses for transcoding, it may or may not be something they can fix.
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22:10:43KiwiCamMir: As others have said, you should rarely, if ever, need to be root to use the Rockbox Utility. You're doing it wrong. Are you making the Rockbox Utility executable for a start? How are you mounting the device? It's more likely that you need to give the MP3 drives permission to be written to by your Username, not root. Puppy is ROOT by default BTW.
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