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#rockbox log for 2012-10-29

00:00:09[Saint]in theory, an .rwps is just a .wps with an r prepended to it that excludes it from being used on the main screen for no real reason.
00:00:23amayerI don't fully understand how remote displays work. or what their themes look like. but I will look into it.
00:00:41[Saint]amayer: just think of a DAP that has two screens, basically.
00:01:08lebelliumif we don't differentiate .wps and .rwps, H100 and H300 can't load a theme supporting remote since there will be twice the same file with the same name
00:01:12[Saint]there's really nothing different about the remote from the main screen wrt themes.
00:01:28gevaerts[Saint]: I suspect the main reason is that it's useful for two different files to have different filenames if they're in the same directory
00:01:50amayerwhat I understand is you want to give the users the option to post their remote theme as a main theme for other targets?
00:02:12[Saint]gevaerts: but, the differentiation needn't necessarily come from the extension though...right?
00:02:23[Saint]you could just as easily append -remote to the filename.
00:02:47lebelliumI don't think so
00:02:53lebelliumthe file name has to be the same everywhere
00:02:54[Saint]why not?
00:03:01[Saint]why, rather?
00:03:23[Saint]the file justy needs to be named how the config expects it.
00:03:30[Saint]*just
00:04:22[Saint]I can't immediately see a reason why the themes all need to share the same naming scheme, in fact, they don't...because you can mix and match themes.
00:04:43lebelliumhum I guess you're right. Only the cfg file and the wps sub-folder need the same name
00:05:25[Saint]that could be worked around too...but, I'm not 100% sure where I'm going with this yet ;)
00:05:49amayer*confused* why are we talking about filenames
00:06:13lebelliumor maybe you're wrong. I also guess the wps sub-folder and the fms/wps/sbs files have to have the same name otherwise I can't load the bmp
00:06:14lebelliumnot sure now
00:06:26lebelliumit can't*
00:08:25[Saint]wait, huh? You can load a .wps from theme A, an .sbs from theme B, and an .fms from theme C, ...so...where's the problem?
00:08:55[Saint]the config on the device (not the individual theme configs) know where to find the files associated with each theme element.
00:10:21lebelliumyes but then there are different wps sub-folders. That means if you put a blabla.wps and a blabla_remote.wps you need 2 wps sub-folders called blabla and blabla_remote
00:10:43*[Saint] suspects he has confused himself, or at least one other, and re-reads.
00:11:41[Saint]lebellium: I'm not sure how that is a problem.
00:11:55[Saint]Is that not pretty much exactly how it works when you mix themes anyway?
00:12:15lebelliumit's a problem because a theme cfg file is associated to a a single wps sub-folder
00:12:58lebelliumwhen you mix themes, there is no longer cfg file problem
00:13:42*[Saint] is starting to understand why this got left for so long ;)
00:14:30 Quit Rower85 (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:14:40lebelliumindeed, I don't think there is an easy solution to that so most probably that will remain like it is :D
00:15:00*[Saint] blames JdGordon because it's a fun thing to do
00:15:30*JdGordon throws feces at [Saint]
00:15:33JdGordonstill fun?
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00:36:28amayer[Saint]: so I didn't get what all that was about. was it about adding the functionality to the theme site?
00:36:45[Saint]...possibly.
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00:41:24amayerok
00:42:51KiwiCAM_A 10 band EQ? Would that come with a Theme tag?
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00:46:17[Saint]KiwiCAM_: need. more. context.
00:47:21infantryshould i install rockbox to my clip+
00:47:40[Saint]infantry: if you want to...it's your device.
00:48:00infantryi just want to themes
00:48:04infantryi'm ok with firmware
00:48:24infantrybut you cant have one without the other yes?
00:48:32[Saint]well, SanDisk can't help you there, so, I guess you know the answer already.
00:49:02[Saint]KiwiCAM_: I'll try again: "Why would it come with a theme tag?"
00:49:12infantryI see
00:49:39infantryi'm afraid i'll have worse sound quality
00:49:56lebelliumno you won't
00:50:08[Saint]lebellium: "worse" is subjective.
00:50:19[Saint]A lot of people *like* how crappy the OF sounds.
00:50:23lebelliumlol
00:50:30amayerHaha
00:50:42infantrywhat's OF?
00:50:49[Saint]Original Firmware
00:50:54infantryoh lol
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00:51:27lebelliumyou know
00:51:31lebelliumit's dualboot
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00:51:34infantryis it possible to revert to original state
00:51:48lebelliumdualboot means you don't take much risk to try rockbox
00:51:56 Quit the-kyle (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:52:00infantryah so you can run the software you want
00:52:05lebelliumindeed
00:52:08infantrythat's pretty neat
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00:52:15[Saint]infantry: you can select at boot time.
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00:52:27[Saint]You should probably read our Fine Manual for your device.
00:53:05infantrywas looking into that but just wanted some general information
00:53:21infantrythanks for help saint
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00:53:49[Saint]lebellium: wrt to sound quality, and specific to SanDisk players (recent ones, iiuc) there's a pitch variation bug that makes people freak out when they first hear Rockbox sometimes.
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00:54:05KiwiCAM_[Saint]: To display it.
00:54:21[Saint]making them think it is "worse" because they get so used to hearing the pitch variation that when they hear "pure" audio, they believe it sounds wrong.
00:55:00[Saint]KiwiCAM_: unless I'm mistaken, the 5 band EQ doesn't have one...so, why would the 10?
00:55:08lebelliumHum I did not notice that but I must admit I only tried the OF a few minutes on my Clip+, Clip Zip and Fuze...
00:55:49lebelliumI'll compare more carefully the OF and rockbox then
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01:03:49[Saint]lebellium: googling "rockbox+Sansa+pitch variation" will likely yeild you a tonne of results.
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01:08:53saratogascorche`: can you unblock me on the forums?
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01:13:52lebellium[Saint]: Okay I just read a bit about it. It's strange I never heard of that before. If I understood well, Sandisk is aware of that but deciced not to fully fix it?
01:14:37[Saint]My understanding of it is that htey basically said "Errrr, it's a feature, ...yeah....feature"
01:14:50the-kyleSeems Sandisk knows they don't have to fix bugs in their firmware, because they know Rockbox is so much better. <smiles>
01:15:42[Saint]I'm pretty sure they released a (partial?) fix after it was brought to their attention (by this very community, iirc).
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01:16:15the-kyleIndeed.
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01:26:53lebelliumI'm comparing in real time pitch on my computer and on the clip+ with OF and indeed there is a variation I never noticed Oo
01:27:40[Saint]I believe to actually percieve this change, you need to be male an ~22 years of age.
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01:27:48saratogathey run one of their PLLs at a setting that can't get the pitch right, and they don't want to have to fix everything to use a new frequency
01:27:57lebelliumI'm a 22 year-old male :D
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01:28:05[Saint]well, that increases the odds dramatically, as I understand it. Human bodies are funny things.
01:29:30saratogai don't think age matters much
01:29:41saratogaits just that most people aren't good with absolute pitch
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01:58:38amayerhas anyone looked at: http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#/c/337/
02:00
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02:06:11JdGordonamayer: i hate php, but that looks sensible
02:06:15JdGordonwhitespace issues
02:06:33[Saint]amayer: fix up your whitespace
02:06:42[Saint]eeek, creepy.
02:06:45amayerwhat do you mean white space issues?
02:07:10[Saint]use a sane editor, that can display whitespace, and you should see what we mean.
02:07:29amayerI use heritage...
02:07:44amayergedit* stupid autocorrect
02:07:53[Saint]it's basically a way of saying "needless spacing exists"
02:08:10[Saint]Hmmm, that could be interpreted in a way other than I mean it.
02:08:30amayerI use 4 spaces for a tab. is that what you mean?
02:08:53[Saint]No, not doing that will get you yelled at too ;)
02:11:04amayersoo... is it spaces after the lines? can I get an example of what I need to change?
02:11:12[Saint]Uuuuggghhh...gedit *really* doesn't have a "display whitespace"?
02:11:20amayerI'm using a fixed width font.
02:11:22[Saint]yuck.
02:11:53[Saint]not yuck font, yuck gedit.
02:14:10[Saint]amayer: gerrit can show you.
02:14:17[Saint]http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#/c/337/1/private/themesite.class.php , for instance.
02:14:49[Saint]look for instances of red (though I'm sure gerrit could be tricked into missing whitespace in the diff so, probably not the best way to do this ;))
02:15:14saratogaa lot of editors can be set to strip trailing white space automatically, although that can be risky too since we tend to commit it and then if you strip it your commit will be weird
02:15:19JdGordonamayer: 4 space for tabs, and no trailing whitespace
02:16:36[Saint]gedit can at least do the former without fuckery or a plugin.
02:20:57amayerare you just talking about the spaces at the begining of the code I commited?
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02:22:39amayerthat's the only red i see(on my phone)
02:24:38[Saint]yes, it looks like a spot where you tabbed accidentally on the new line separating your addition.
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02:24:55[Saint]and, likely didn't notice this because your editor has no way of showing this to you.
02:26:11amayeroh ok... ill fix it when I get home
02:27:34[Saint]there's three big things with the source afaik: comment style, whitespace, and tabs. While your code may be correct, it still wouldn't be committed in this state.
02:28:34[Saint]there's a styler guideline floating around somewhere, but, that's pretty much it. Kill whitespace, use 4 spaces for Tab, and don't go awol on the comment style.
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02:28:41[Saint]*style
02:30:06amayerI do that at work its kind of a habit. ill take them out
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05:21:57amayer[Saint]: JdGordon: can you check out g#337 again?
05:21:59amayerI made the changes requested
05:22:51amayer*no idea how to use the bot that posts gerrit stuff*http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#/c/337/
05:23:11JdGordoni really try to avoid php
05:23:34amayeri think so does everyone else in the chat
05:23:37amayerthanks anyway
05:23:54amayerscorche: ^
05:25:04JdGordonyou still need to coordinate with scorche` to put it online anyway no?
05:25:18JdGordonor get him to give you access(?)
05:26:20amayeryes i still need to do that
05:26:37amayeror i might see about creating some kind of hook
05:27:27amayerdo we have any source for an irc bot?
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05:42:12scorche`amayer: your emailed db.class file is now live on the theme site
05:42:25scorche`looks fine at first glance...
05:42:30 Nick scorche` is now known as scorche (~scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
05:42:39amayerscorche: no dont do that
05:42:56scorcheamayer: i wasnt planning on making it permanent - just saying ti appears to work ;)
05:43:19amayer*wipes sweat off forehead* oh ok
05:43:22amayerbut it works?
05:43:27scorchesee for yourself
05:43:45amayeroh its on the real site?
05:44:01amayeryeah if stuff loads then it still works
05:44:08amayersweet
05:44:21*scorche switches it back to the old one
05:44:49amayerwell can you check out the commit i made on gerrit?
05:44:52amayerhttp://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#/c/337/
05:44:54amayeri guess i need another reviewer besides you.
05:45:04amayerill clean up the database class and commit that too
05:45:15scorchei really am not the best person to review these things...
05:46:06amayerwell shit... who in here knows php?
05:46:15amayeror perl?
05:46:24amayerphp is basically perl- -
05:46:34scorche...it is?
05:46:48amayeryup
05:48:15amayerthere are some things you can do in perl that you cant do in php and some things in php that you cant do in perl.
05:48:18amayerbut from my use(~6 years) they are very similar
05:48:39amayerbut syntax wise they are almost identical
05:49:02amayerhow does that work if nobody is qualified to review themesite code?
05:49:25scorchethere are a few that could probably have a look at it
05:52:10scorchePHP and perl may be similar in many ways, but i certianly wouldnt say "php is basically perl"... but then again, that is a conversation for the other channel ;)
05:54:12scorcheeither way, people who have previously worked on the site who you can try to hunt down would likely be rasher, gevaerts, bluebrother, domonoky, and mcuelenaere
05:55:46amayerscorche: thanks
05:56:44amayerI think im going to bed. its 1am here and i have work in the morning. Ill work on cleaning the database class tomorrow,
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10:22:38copperAny chance of incorporating the 10 band EQ patch into the main rockbox builds?
10:22:51copperI have it on my iPod Classic but I miss it on my Clip+
10:23:59copperwith that patch, I can exactly replicate my desktop configuration
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13:49:33amayerbluebrother: gevaerts: ping
13:49:53amayerdo you guys know php?
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14:08:01michaelrQuick question, tried Google, hardly found an answer.
14:08:22michaelrIt's about development.
14:11:30amayermichaelr: what is your question?
14:13:48michaelrWell I read the thing on the RockBox website about choosing "development" over "music" or "library" but I would really like to make mine say "library." I've scrambled through root_menu.c/h and somethingnavi.conf but I can't seem to find where the create menu command is for the root menu, does it even exist?
14:14:48Torne..do you mean choosing "database"
14:15:14Torneotherwise that sentence is hard to parse
14:15:36michaelrYea, like on the very first menu, where it lists Files, Database, Now Playing, and stuff like that. How do I change the word database to library.
14:15:49michaelrI'm sorry, this is a little weird to explain.
14:16:37TorneThe actual strings displayed to the user are not in the code at all,which is why you can't find them :)
14:16:51Torneyou can just edit the langauge file for your language.
14:17:34Torneapps/lang/*.lang, LANG_TAGCACHE
14:17:42michaelrSo I need to be looking in the language file? Because other menus, e.g. Settings menu, General settings, those are actually in code.
14:17:55TorneNo, all user-visible strings are in the language file
14:18:08TorneThe menus are defined in the code, but they only include internal identifiers for the menu options
14:18:35TorneThe main menu is handled differently to the others because it can be reordered by the user in their config, so the code that creates it is very different looking
14:18:42Tornebut for *any* menu, all the displayed strings are from the langauge file
14:19:46michaelrOh, that actually makes sense. I'm used to stuff like PHP.
14:20:03copperthat's common practice in PHP as well
14:20:15Torneyes, this is standard practise for pretty much anything that supports internationalisation :)
14:20:18michaelrA language file?
14:20:21Torneyes
14:20:45Tornelots of php apps work this way too :)
14:20:56Tornethere are localisation systems in the php standard libraries that do it :)
14:21:46michaelrI wouldn't know, I've never really done anything that would require a language file, I just set usually have a folder for my functions and what not, that get's the same thing done, at least for what I've had to do.
14:23:16michaelrSo, I found it, do I need to change all of them under <source>, <dest> and <voice>, or will that mess something up?
14:27:58Tornesource is the original english string, used by translators
14:28:02Tornedest is the actual string that gets displayed
14:28:12Tornevoice is the string that gets used when generating voice data
14:28:20Torneit happens for english.lang that source and dest are the same :)
14:31:14michaelrYou know, discovering what the language files did, makes understanding this code so much easier, I don't know why I didn't even look there, at the time it just didn't make sense.
14:31:18michaelrThank you!
14:32:45michaelrI'm sure that I'll probably be back sometime, I'm attempting to learn C, and this is how I like to learn, just jump right into the code. See ya.
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14:51:04michaelrLook who's back.
14:59:29amayerwelcome back
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15:01:15copperlol
15:02:22amayerdoes anyone in the chat now know php?
15:05:12funmanamayer: was that meant for #rockbox-community ?
15:06:05amayerfunman: no it was not. im trying to get code reviewed on gerrit... so far after ~3 days of trying i cant find anyone on here qualified to review my code for the theme site
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15:08:53funmansorry, I don't know php. Try to send a mail on the developers list maybe?
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15:44:54soapIs there any good reason to use URL shortening services in the wiki?
15:45:06soapFor example, the use of fav.me on this page: http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=1698&target=ipodvideo
15:45:54ZagorI think there are many good reasons not to use them
15:46:10soapIt seems to me that this serves only to make the link more likely to break. Since the shortener appears to link to a rather bog-standard deviantart URL I see no reason not to use the "real" address.
15:47:36soapamayer, would you please edit those URLs on the themes page?
15:47:58soap(and anywhere else you have used such)
15:48:47soapHmm, or is fav.me a deviantart-specific service?
15:49:08ZagorI don't think it matters
15:49:12amayerfav.me is the link that is given on the deviant art page under the "link to" section
15:49:38copperfav.me redirects to http://www.deviantart.com/
15:49:45amayeri was just going to say that
15:49:58ZagorI still want to know where the links point to.
15:50:48Zagorwe are not twitter :-)
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16:14:07amayerZagor: i will see about doing that when i have some free time later this week
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16:20:10minouchhello guys
16:20:52minouchIs it planed to get mails about source code change back?
16:20:57minouchLike svn days
16:21:30minouchIs that a sort of gerrit option you didnt use yet?
16:23:51Zagorminouch: we're supposed to have it. I'm not sure why it doesn't work yet. it's my responsibility.
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16:33:32minouchZagor: OK, that would be very good to have back
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17:14:54amayercan someone that can see spam tell me if the thing being posted to:
17:14:56amayerhttp://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=39326
17:14:58amayeris really spam?
17:15:00amayerIve gotten 3 notices in the last 2 hours and am not sure if spam bots just think im fun to talk to or if someone has a valid opinion/question for me
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17:38:59soapamayer, I'm not sure how to tell if akismet-removed spam was in your thread or not, but I don't see a reason to suspect the thread activity notification bit is lying to you...
17:39:16soapI see nothing in the spam pile which isn't spam.
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17:44:02amayersoap: thank you.
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18:06:31butumhi
18:06:55butumi need help for unbrick sansa clip+
18:07:26butumi need OF-Image for it
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18:15:46funmanhow did you brick it ?
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18:27:02gevaertsamayer: sorry, no
18:28:37amayergevaerts: thanks anyway
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20:49:46bluebrother^amayer: pong. A bit.
20:51:20*bluebrother^ considers releasing Rockbox Utility 1.3.1 soonish
20:51:38bluebrother^anyone has open issues that should get addressed first?
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23:03:11JdGordonbluebrother^: still around?
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23:41:46bluebrother^JdGordon: somewhat
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23:43:40JdGordonbluebrother^: do you have access to a mac for rbutil builds?
23:47:28bluebrother^yes.
23:47:44JdGordonok then, never mind :p
23:47:48JdGordonunless you need a backup
23:48:22bluebrother^hopefully that machine will live for another while :)
23:48:49bluebrother^but in case it breaks I know who to ping :)
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