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#rockbox log for 2012-11-20

00:00:35 Quit kevku (Quit: KVIrc 4.3.1 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/)
00:02:23lebelliumno Fuze+ user around here to try RDS with my theme?
00:03:45kugelwith git bisect it should actually take much time
00:04:04kugelI'm too busy with other stuff still, I'm sorry
00:06:32 Join this [0] (~this@71.21.81.34)
00:06:55 Quit bertrik (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
00:08:21thisHello. I just put rockbox on my ipod 6g. Do the themes for the ipod video work on it?
00:08:33 Quit prof_wolfff (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
00:08:41gevaertsyes
00:08:52thisOkay. thank you.
00:08:55 Quit this (Client Quit)
00:16:25 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0/20121113065533])
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00:30:15laenKay, Clip+ done.
00:31:27laensaratoga: 640kb RAM ought to be enough for everyone
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00:53:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:00
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01:32:34laenCould be the Comply tips, but after giving Rockbox a listen, i can see where people are coming from saying it sounds more ..whatever they mean it's probably analytical. Superb, i love that! Barely notice a difference though, maybe.. indeed a bit more analytical and a bit better soundstage. Probably just headspins, but both of those are what i like and love.
01:32:57laenSo, thanks all :).
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01:54:56saratogathere is no difference
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02:00
02:05:27DEBUGEOF from server (Connection reset by peer) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 545)
02:05:27***Cleanup
02:05:27***Cleanup
02:05:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:05:27***Exit
02:05:30***Started Dancer V4.16
02:05:30***Connected to irc.freenode.net on port 6667
02:05:30***Logfile for #rockbox started
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08:47:29laensaratoga: there is between the tips
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11:21:30wodzanyone with H10 handy to confirm this: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,41810.msg215430.html ?
11:23:07gevaertsI have a small H10. I can test on that tonight, but I'm not sure if that's very relevant
11:24:49jlbiasinilebellium: Tell me when your are back I could have a try at your theme for fuze+
11:25:19wodzgevaerts: are there differences other then drive between thick and thin versions?
11:25:36gevaertsYes. LCD
11:25:41wodzoh
11:26:08gevaertsThey're a different resolution
11:26:19wodzI guess lcd driver itself wasn't touched for ages. Maybe data feed is broken by some general rework
11:28:18*gevaerts comments
11:37:36laenI'm thinking of something to say about Rockbox' audio quality to tease saratoga but I guess it's too early for me to come up with something nice.
11:46:27wodzlaen: if you want to say something about audio - show measurements :-)
11:47:02wodzfrequency response, THD and friends ARE measurable
11:47:36laenYes, but as we know, Rockbox barely changes the sound output from the OF, which shows in an RMAA or something.
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11:48:28wodzyou just answered the question about differences honestly
11:48:50laenI was just in it to tease saratoga.
11:48:51laenBUT
11:49:08laenI'm quite sure people can tune the sound of RB way better to their liking compared to the OF.
11:49:31laenIt's just not my thing, i like it as it is without modification/DSP.
11:50:02laenPlayed around a bit with it, and it did make me "wow, this little thing can do that?"
11:54:23laenBut tell me, wodz, why does everyone here (and on the forums) react so strongly, defending Rockbox when people are talking about audio output differences they can hear? It's almost at a level where people might think you're hiding something.
11:56:13wodzlaen: I said - show the measurements. I don't say there are no differences. We (as developers) are engineers, we don't believe in audiophile voodoo.
11:56:25gevaertsIt's because we're annoyed by people talking nonsense about audio all the time
11:56:30laenAh.
11:56:47gevaerts"Rockbox sounds more purple than the OF"
11:56:52laenwodz: what audiophile voodoo is that?
11:57:03laenNot sure what defines audiophile at all, honestly.
11:57:50gevaertsThere's a class of people who believe in magic, claim they can hear differences you can't measure, and are generally annoying
11:58:48wodzlaen: I traced audio quality problem on mpio hd300 for quite some time so speaking we try to hide something is dishonest. If you show measurements which support your claim we may look at it.
11:59:23laenwodz: again, there ARE no real differences. Why do you think i'm claiming there are differences? See, that's what i mean, you're reacting SO annoyed.
11:59:43laenI find that annoying in Audiophiles as well, tbh. I was at an Audiophile meet last Sunday, listened to someone's 2 uber expensive amps, and they sounded like shit. But even before listening, he was defending them. After listening, he said it might be the copper vs silver cable on the headphones. What.
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12:00:39gevaerts"i can see where people are coming from saying it sounds more ..whatever they mean it's probably analytical"
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12:50:19pamauryit's completely true that rockbox and the OF must have the same sound output. Some audio chips are different settings, explaining why on some targets Rockbox is better or worse
12:50:25pamaury*not completely
12:51:45pamaurybut again, I only trust measurements because people usually talk nonsense
12:56:18wodzpamaury: any luck with rk27xx usb?
12:57:16wodzI glanced at your github and it looks like you didn't change anything except aesthetics (defines and that like) or I miss something?
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12:57:59pamauryno :( I can only see t a wo possibilities:
12:57:59pamaury1) the usb setup interrupt is not the one documented (it's supposed to be bit 1 but I only got 4 and 7 so far which are both suspend and reserved)
12:57:59pamaury2) I'm missing some key init which prevents the udc from accepting a setup
12:57:59DBUGEnqueued KICK pamaury
12:57:59pamauryyes it's mostly aesthetics
12:58:31pamaurybut I don't see anything which is different from the code of the SDK you gave me
12:59:43wodzpamaury: I can send you also commented disassembly of rom. It performs basic UDC setup for recovery mode
12:59:57pamauryyes, I'm quite interested
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13:00:52wodzok, I'll send you later today
13:04:33pamauryit's the same the gogear ariaz guys broke the board while disassembling the player
13:04:36pamaury*shame
13:08:22wodzfrom the description I assumed that he broke it deliberately
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13:11:27laengevaerts: yes, that was to tease
13:11:44laengevaerts: i saw all the discussion and all i could do is laugh, and continue the fun
13:13:01laenBut eh, i didn't quite expect this topic to be such a heated thing, so i'll just leave it there.
13:15:50pamaurywow, why did the guy use a scanner and not a camera ? Destroy a mp3 player like this is just...wtf ?
13:16:44gevaertsThe scanner is fine, but the destruction is weird
13:17:19laenWhat, where.
13:17:28pamauryI guess the usb port would be repairable with good skills
13:17:34pamauryhttp://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=42017.new;topicseen#new
13:18:50laenlol
13:19:41pamaurywhat is even more strange is that destroying it this way basically prevents us from trying anything on the device in the case we could find a flaw in the software for example
13:20:18laenIt's like.. at first you think "is he joking.." till you see the proof he actually did it.
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13:22:40speckmade1where do feature requests go - forum, mailinglist, flyspray? (sorry - not obvious for me after quick search)
13:23:09gevaertsFeature *discussion* goes to the forum, or possibly the mailing list
13:23:16gevaertsFeature *requests* go nowhere
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13:24:57wodzgevaerts: not true - this goes to /dev/null :-)
13:24:59speckmade1I've got a wish for a minor change in behaviour to make rockbox less annoying to use. Forum then?..
13:25:45gevaertsForum is best I'd say
13:25:52gevaertswodz: and where does /dev/null go? :)
13:26:25wodzgevaerts: Thats implementation detail :-)
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13:29:30wodzpamaury: It should be possible to repopulate usb and headphone jack
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13:41:48jlbiasinilebellium: you are still looking for fuze+ tester for a theme?
13:43:42pamaurylebellium: I can test it too
13:44:02jlbiasiniit was about rds iirc
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13:50:57lebelliumjlbiasini: hello
13:51:23lebelliumyes could you test the version here http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12759?project=1&type=2&order=dateopened&sort=desc
13:53:01lebelliumon the R0 it crashes after a few seconds or minutes if both RDS name and RDS text display
13:56:53lebelliumpamaury: would be cool, thanks :)
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14:01:30jlbiasinilebellium: what is rds text ?
14:03:15lebellium1st line is RDS name, 2nd line is RDS text. Usually used to broadcast anything but the station name (info about the current song, station website, station slogan etc)
14:04:04jlbiasinilebellium: so far it seems to work but i will let it for a few minutes to be sure
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14:07:04lebelliumyou get both RDS name and text on 2 lines right?
14:07:13lebelliumbecause with RDS name only it won't crash anyway
14:08:50jlbiasinilebellium: yes I do
14:09:12lebelliumand is the RDS text scrolling?
14:09:35jlbiasininame no but text yes
14:10:09lebelliumokay
14:10:24lebelliumthank you
14:10:31lebelliumthen I'm a bit embarassed
14:10:37jlbiasinibut the scrolling is strange actually
14:11:36lebelliumYeah I noticed that too. But I guess that's part of the RDS issues
14:11:47lebelliumI should check with another theme
14:12:28jlbiasiniit seems to display first the differents part one after the other and then build a line and finally when it reach full width strat to scroll
14:13:34jlbiasinithis theme is still my favorite...
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14:15:38lebelliumyeah the scrolling is strange. I have the final v1.60 ready but I don't know if I upload it with scrolling RDS (crash on the R0 but works more or less on the Fuze+) or if I disable the scrolling RDS for now
14:16:56lebelliumI don't know how many people would be annoyed if I remove the RDS scrolling
14:18:13jlbiasinilebellium: well if it crash on the R0 it seems pretty obvious that it should be disactivated... Alternatively you could do a special R0 version with not scrolling....
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14:30:26jlbiasini_pamaury: any change that my touchpad sensitivity patch g#123 get commited?
14:30:29fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #123 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/123 : Add an alternative analogic touchpad sensitivity setting and by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/23/123/6)
14:31:54jlbiasini_*chance
14:35:47lebelliumjlbiasini: I guess I'll upload it without scrolling and a notice explaining the Fuze+ users how to reactivate the scrolling
14:35:56lebelliumadd a notice*
14:36:55jlbiasini_hum obviously I will have to split this patch into sensitivity setting and fuze+ stuff first
14:37:47jlbiasini_lebellium: well I don't use radio that much anyway...
14:42:34jlbiasini_lebellium: why not just on the R0 if this is the only device with problem?
14:42:56lebelliumwhat just on the R0?
14:44:30jlbiasini_just desactivated rds scroll on R0
14:46:31lebelliumwell I don't really like the idea of uploading 2 different versions because of a bug in Rockbox
14:48:44lebelliumDoing that is not encouraging the devs to locate and fix the bug
14:56:43jlbiasini_ok then your solution seems the best
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15:00:06kugeli thought there's also a bug with rds on non-R0?
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15:03:21lebelliumThere are many bugs with RDS
15:03:33lebelliummaybe it doesn't crash on Fuze+
15:03:42lebelliumbut it may have the other RDS bugs too
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15:05:50lebelliumthat is to say slow RDS info reception compared to the older builds, strange characters display or this strange way of scrolling
15:07:59kugelcould very well be the same root cause
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15:48:56pamauryjlbiasini (logs): oh I completely forgot that. I'm in the slow process of better integrating the touchpad with the touchscreen infrastructure. This way things such a sensitivity can be handled in a better way and the touchpad easier to debug
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15:51:53jlbiasinipamaury: actually I was using the touchpad system but if you are going to use touchscreen should I close this patch?
15:52:51wodzpamaury: You may try this http://pastie.org/5406387 deployed in apps/debug_menu.c in order to dump rom on your rk27xx
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16:19:30pamauryjlbiasini: no please keep it for now as a reference, the interface part will not change so most of the patch if not all will still be useful
16:20:39pamaurywodz: ok I'll do this, what should I do with it ? (I can't right now)
16:21:55wodzpamaury: What do you mean? It is analog of http://git.rockbox.org/?p=rockbox.git;a=commit;h=5ed6de3 for rk27xx
16:22:30pamauryno I mean, should I reverse engineer it myself or do you have some disassembly already ?
16:22:58pamaury(by the way I should implement this for the imx233 and perhaps you should commit it for the rk27xx also)
16:22:59wodzI sent you msg ~1h ago about it
16:23:15pamauryoh sorry, I missed it
16:23:39wodzpamaury: If it will work for you I'll commit it
16:23:47pamauryok
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16:42:44jlbiasinipamaury: would it be usefull that I separe properly touchpad sensitivity code from fuze+ activation of it?
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17:27:23pamaurywodz: stkov with your patch
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17:35:08pamaurywodz: this works: http://pastie.org/5406823
17:35:43megal0maniacHey pamaury
17:35:53pamauryhey
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17:58:44jlbiasinipamaury: I reviewed the code, made a few cleanup and spitted it between main implementation and fuze+ g#123 & g#351
17:58:45fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #123 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/123 : Add an alternative analogic touchpad sensitivity setting by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/23/123/8)
17:59:00jlbiasinig#351
17:59:01fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #351 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/351 : Activate touchpad sensitivity setting on Fuze+ by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/51/351/1)
17:59:04pamauryok, thanks
18:00
18:00:07jlbiasiniI'm looking into activating lock on radio screen now... is there some policy/history/nodo about that?
18:01:27jlbiasinipamaury: actually you could push g#132 it's waiting without reason for a while now...
18:01:28fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #132 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/132 : Fuze+ demo plugin's keymaps upgrade by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/32/132/1)
18:01:45pamauryah ok
18:01:57jlbiasinias do g#186
18:01:58fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #186 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/186 : Pacbox: add fuze+ to the targets that can manage full frames by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/86/186/2)
18:02:31jlbiasiniI know those are not really mandatory....
18:03:30megal0maniacFuze+ still keeping everyone busy? :)
18:04:00jlbiasiniwell mostly pamaury actually
18:04:31pamauryno busy all the time actually, but there are still a few improvements to be made
18:04:43megal0maniacAnyone else complaining about dead memory?
18:04:49pamaurydamn, I can't login on gerrit, google login seems to fail
18:05:08pamaurynot that I know
18:05:39pamauryjlbiasini: I'll commit those as soon as I can login
18:05:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:06:51jlbiasiniok thanks, I would like to change a keymap for a game that would keep from having it reset accidentaly
18:07:08jlbiasiniI'll will commit it soon
18:07:57CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
18:07:57*megal0maniac needs to get better at programming
18:09:21jlbiasinigive it a try then, a lot of little stuff are not really difficult! Manuals, setting, keymaps are really easy to understand
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18:17:48wodzpamaury: yeah, I was worried a bit about stack usage already but didn't have a chance to test. Thanks for testing.
18:18:39pamauryi'm having a look at the rom, the disassembly you linked me seems to match but in doubt I'm doing it in ida pro using the other one
18:20:05wodzpamaury: IIRC I compared the rom in your device to AleMaxx's
18:21:38wodzpamaury: If you like I can send you dump from my device. It is slightly different.
18:21:57pamaurywe'll see but this one works so the missing bit must be there !
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18:22:12evilnickReally stupid question: Is exFAT supported in RB? I'm about to reply to a forum post advising someone to remember to repartition a micro-SDXC card into FAT32 and want to be sure that I've not missed anything
18:22:19wodzender`,
18:22:37wodzevilnick: no, you need to reformat sdxc to fat32
18:22:56evilnickwodz: Thanks, I was 99.999% sure but wanted to double-check :)
18:24:05pamaurywhat is the state of exfat ? has it been reverse engineered ? is there a patent on it ?
18:25:12megal0maniacMicrosoft owns it
18:25:20megal0maniaciirc
18:26:11pamaurywodz: are you confident that the usb clock is properly configured ?
18:26:43wodzpamaury: not really
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18:30:55wodzthere are free implementations of exfat (for example this http://code.google.com/p/exfat/) the problem is patent which M$ holds
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18:33:33wodzAND 300,000$ flat fee for license :-)
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18:38:14lebelliumpamaury , jlbiasini , kugel : I finally uploaded my new theme version accordingly. When you have some free-time that would be nice if you could try it :) http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=1722
18:39:14jlbiasiniok!
18:41:35wodzThis is also interesting: http://www.sans.org/reading_room/whitepapers/forensics/reverse-engineering-microsoft-exfat-file-system_33274
18:53:49lebelliumwhaouh now the older links are redirected to the current link for themes URL on the theme website
18:53:52lebelliumgreat improvement :)
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20:23:45jlbiasiniis it me or is the radio coded like a plugin?
20:25:14jlbiasiniI would have thought that it would use action.h but it seems to implement his own button detection...
20:26:02bertrikno, radio is not a plugin
20:27:51jlbiasiniI know but isn't there plans to have it more integrated?
20:28:25jlbiasiniI'm asking because i'm looking for a way to implement keylocks on radio
20:29:03jlbiasinibut I wonder if I have to rewrite it or to use the one from action
20:30:15jlbiasinithere is also this note in the code /* TODO: Move some more of the control functionality to firmware and clean up the mess */
20:31:35jlbiasiniI suppose it means through action but i'm not sure... I could definitivly give a try to clean up but I have to understand in wich direction first :)
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22:28:39amayer_lebellium: your welcome :)
22:37:19lebelliumamayer_ : I remember now that you were working on that
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22:39:06amayer_lebellium: slowly but surly... still working on it. so far its all small stuff that you cant see but its there
22:41:17lebelliumgood luck :)
22:41:43lebellium"Works with release 3.11" is still written for all themes
22:41:46lebelliumshould be 3.12
22:42:25gevaertsOh, did we forget to update?
22:44:57*gevaerts attempts to do that now
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22:48:55amayer_lebellium: i never noticed that before.
22:51:44lebelliumwell that's not really important, just a detail
22:52:33gevaertsA detail?
22:53:13lebelliumyeah, showing "Works with release 3.11" or "Works with release 3.12" won't change users life
22:54:08gevaertsIt will if 3.11 and 3.12 don't support exactly the same tags
22:56:43lebelliumtrue
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23:02:57lebelliumbut I meant, I'm not sure many people look at that. Otherwise it would have been reported earlier. The issue has been there for more than 1 month
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23:20:56jlbiasinikugel (logs): regarding g#188 the problem is that there is no keys left for orientation except PLA_CANCEL. I tried to set PLA_SELECT_REPEAT but it does not work well with the code because the long press on select is too sensible. So either we let PLA_CANCEL for orientation either we have to change the plugin core's code.
23:20:58fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #188 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/188 : fft plugin: PLA integration by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/88/188/2)
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23:34:49gevaertsOK, theme site updated
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23:38:49lebelliumthanks
23:39:13lebelliumthere are strange things sometimes
23:39:53lebelliumgreyscaleVP: http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?allthemes "Doesn't work with current build" but http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=39 "works with current build" and http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=39 too
23:41:25lebelliumthe same for gray
23:41:31lebelliumv
23:41:33lebelliumhttp://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=287
23:42:58lebelliumand iDark http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=1561
23:43:10gevaertsThose indications are really only accurate on the target pages
23:43:40gevaertsOn other pages you'll get the working status for basically a random target
23:43:48lebelliumOo
23:44:01gevaertsFeel free to fix :)
23:45:03lebelliumI wish I could. But I don't think my basic language skills on TI84+ can help in today's world :)
23:45:32lebelliummaybe amayer is willing to fix that :D
23:46:17gevaertsIt's not actually really fixable everywhere I'd say. What do you show e.g. on the allthemes page?
23:47:24lebelliumyeah on the allthemes pag
23:47:26lebelliume
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23:48:29lebelliumit seems that the status corresponds to the theme
23:48:54lebelliumWPS parsing failure for the right theme
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