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#rockbox log for 2012-12-12

00:06:25 Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik)
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01:48:22 Join himay333 [0] (~1814f644@www.haxx.se)
01:49:10himay333hello, anyone on that can help me with a bricked sansa clip+?
01:51:05[Saint]Firstly, lets start with why you believe it to be bricked.
01:51:42himay333ok - I used it with rockbox for a week or 2 and it was working great
01:51:56himay333then one day I went to turn it on and it just wouldn't
01:52:14himay333I've tried to do the manual reset
01:52:32himay333held the button down for 30 secs to multiple minutes
01:52:47[Saint]What, if anything, happens when you attempt to mount the device?
01:53:16himay333in windows it shows as a unformatted usb drive
01:53:24himay333with 0mbs
01:53:28[Saint]Of what capacity?
01:53:32[Saint]Oh...
01:54:01himay333double checking that
01:54:25himay333yes 0 bytes
01:54:41[Saint]The first thing to do, is verify that the player isn't just hanging. There's only really one way to do this, the battery either needs to be totally flat, or not present.
01:55:02[Saint]That's the only way you can guarantee it is actually "off", and not stuck in a loop.
01:55:22himay333ok
01:55:50[Saint]So the options are either: "Put it on a shelf for a few days and forget about it, and then attempt to charge the device." or "Open it and clip/desolder a battery lead"
01:56:07[Saint]The former is recommended :)
01:56:12himay333so since I don't have a soldering iron at the moment... shelf it
01:57:03himay333I'm thinking about updating to a clipzip since they go on sale this time of year...
01:57:22himay333how stable is the clipzip release if you know?
01:58:34[Saint]If you have some reasonably sensitive headphones/IEMs, you can try plugging the headphones in every now and then and listen for a pop/scratch/hiss. If there is one, the battery still has power, ...but this is hardly a scientific test. :)
01:59:01[Saint]The ClipZip is quite usable, but it still has a reasonable way to go yet.
01:59:51 Quit dfkt_ (Quit: -= SysReset 2.55=- Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.)
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02:00:42himay333i guess for now i'll just stick with my + and hope for the best
02:01:49 Quit yuriks (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
02:02:07himay333i had it get stuck once before while mounting, but overall had no issues... i really like the interface and i love that it allows me to scrobble
02:03:04himay333just hope it doesn't crash on me again and I can continue using it
02:03:46himay333thanks for the help - hopefully i won't have to come back for this issue. :)
02:03:52 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
02:04:08[Saint]Not a problem. Hope I don't see you again. :P
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04:38:34JdGordon[Saint]: piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing
04:39:36dongstried trigger recording... it made a new file for each one..
04:39:41dongsand fucked up start triggers..
04:39:47dongswhat hte fuck, and why are docs so shit on this stuff
04:40:40dongsits hilarious how half hte page of trigger recording talks about copying CDs
04:40:42dongsisnt that illegal?
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04:42:12dongsi surely would expect a reputable opensource project to not promote copyright infringement
04:44:03[Saint]Its foolish to assume the material being copied isn't free.
04:44:13dongsbwahah, right
04:44:14[Saint]Also, you're on the fine line of trolling...so, please, don't.
04:44:26dongs[Saint]: please point me to some free CDs.
04:44:39dongs[Saint]: im trying to use a feature thats been in rockbox apparently since 2008
04:44:43dongsand its barely fucking usable
04:44:53dongsand when I brought this up last time, all i heard was "here's the sores, go fix it"
04:45:04dongshttp://www.rockbox.org/wiki/TriggerManual
04:45:06dongshave a look through this
04:45:22dongsi cant even make sense of half the shit, probably wrwitten by developers for developers
04:45:26dongsand half the stuff isnt even in the menus
04:45:35dongsso its either been removed or too new or wahtever, but the docs dont match waht the menus say
04:45:37[Saint]Its a wiki.
04:45:56JdGordon[Saint]: have you played with 9seg yet? fix cabbie already!
04:46:23dongsstop hold: nowhere to be found in menus.
04:46:25dongsis this been removed?
04:47:06[Saint]The wiki isn't the place one should be looking for this information. I'm not surprised if it is incomplete or out of date.
04:47:07dongsalso I would have expected "pause" trigger to you know.. pause recording.. instead of making a new file on each trigger
04:47:15dongshuh really then where should I look for it?
04:47:17[Saint]Refer to the manual, always.
04:47:25dongssince thats first google hit for ""rockbox trigger recording"
04:47:42soapwhy google when there is a manual with a table of contents?
04:48:01dongshttp://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-sansaclipplus/rockbox-buildch10.html#x13-16400010.11
04:48:04[Saint]....everyone knows the first hit on Google is always right. Duh. :P
04:48:05dongsoh great
04:48:07dongsTrigtype.
04:48:08dongsAdd description of Trigtype Options: Stop, Pause, New File.
04:49:05dongsI have selected pause, and i guess its doing new file.
04:49:10dongsbut hard to tell, cuz there's no docs.
04:49:46dongs[Saint]: so now what.
04:49:46soapHow hard is it to tell if a new file is created?
04:50:05dongssoap: i dunno, i recorded and it ended up with like ~40 new R_*** files.
04:50:22soapIn the ten minutes you've been bitching you could have run a few controlled tests.
04:50:51dongssoap, thats not waht opensauce is about though. i'm sure since 2008 someone have noticed that shit is broken
04:51:00dongslike the fact that there's no dB value preview in recording dialog
04:51:10dongsso somehow youre expected to just GUESS what the start/stop trigger values in dB are.
04:51:29dongsas a user and not some pro-audio fgt I have NO idea what -45dB is vs -35dB
04:51:45[Saint]Its a community project, you're more than welcome to submit correction to the docs.
04:51:45soapdongs, what are your peak meter settings?
04:51:50soapdB or linear?
04:51:50dongssoap: default
04:52:01soapwhich is?
04:52:02[Saint]Otherwise, you're entitled to a full refund of the purchase price if you're not satisfied.
04:52:13dongssoap: i have no idea. default. I installed, and only changed like 2 settings for my own use.
04:52:27dongsand I didnt screw with peak meter settings, so whatever itis, its that.
04:52:28dongsi presume db.
04:52:58soapif you read the manual section, which I just did in 60 seconds, you'd see the answer to that question lies in your peak meter settings.
04:53:30dongs (i.e. When the peak meter displays dB you can adjust the level in dB and when the peak meter is set to linear the threshold is displayed as percentage.)
04:53:34dongs????
04:53:36dongshow does this help me
04:53:53dongsthere's no way to find out the current value of peak meter in dB.
04:53:57dongsbecause its not shown on screen.
04:54:39soapso you don't know the difference between -45 and -35db, what would you rather see to express the recording level?
04:55:22dongssoap: um, i dont *NEED* to know the difference between whatever dB. if I was able to SEE teh current recording LEVEL as a NUMBER (which is what the trigger menu wants), then I wouldn't care waht units it was in. it could be a number from 0 to 4096 for all I care as long as i can SEE that number.
04:55:42dongsand the same 0..4096 would be used to set trigger levels.
04:55:52dongsright now its some magic number that has no relevance to anything displayed on recording screen.
04:56:38soapI'm assuming it isn't displayed on the Clip screen because there isn't room.
04:57:31dongsshrug. i dont have any other rockbox device to compare with.
04:57:56dongsif there's not enough space on screen to display this kind of important info, dont bother implementing rec function at all
04:58:05dongsor disable triggger recording, as it cant be configured properly.
04:58:45soapagain, a little trial and error would calibrate that peak screen for you.
05:00
05:00:37soapthough, again in a 20th of the time you've spent bitching I've educated myself on this, you can set not only the scale but the minumum and maximum of the scale.
05:00:44soapif you can't figure out the rest...
05:00:49dongsuh...........
05:00:58dongsdude, what units is min/max scale again/
05:01:07dongssome numbers that dont mean shit, right?
05:01:14dongscuz I can't see waht the current numbers are
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05:01:20soapUnder recording settings: peak meter
05:01:26dongsyes?
05:01:54soapif you don't know how a peak meter works you have no business trying to use triggered recording.
05:02:08soapIt's not Rockbox manual territory to teach recording.
05:02:24soapIt's Rockbox manual territory to teach using Rockbox.
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05:13:25soaplet me rephrase that, dongs, if you don't yet understand how a peak meter works you are not ready for triggered recording.
05:14:05soapIf you don't yet understand what the significance of the negative dB numbers are you're not yet ready for recording with manual control of gain.
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05:14:33dongssoap, you dont get it at all
05:14:41dongsi dont need to know what a peak meter is or what dB is and whether its positive or negative
05:14:45dongsif a trigger asks for a number X
05:14:54dongsi must haev way to VIEW this said number X on the recording display.
05:14:56dongsthis is not the case.
05:15:09soapAs I said, you sure can get that number from the recording display.
05:15:15dongsnope, I cant.
05:15:23dongsif I could, I wouldnt be bitching here.
05:15:24soapI can on my clip right now.
05:15:41dongsdo tell.
05:15:44soapI set the scale to log (dB) and the low end of the scale to -65 and the high end to -35.
05:15:56dongs.. and?
05:16:07soaphmm, peak meter is in the middle of the scale, therefore I know it's -50ish
05:16:18soapthere are even tick marks if I want to count.
05:16:43dongswhy evne bother with entering numbers then?
05:16:48dongs"oh, start recording when peak meter is about half"
05:16:51dongssorry dude, taht doesnt work.
05:16:53soapto set the limits?
05:17:12soapThere isn't room on the screen for full bloody labels.
05:17:25dongsim sure tehres space to write a dB value
05:17:30soapA?
05:17:52dongsyep. since trigger seems to take some average one.
05:17:54soapI don't need A value. I know two values (the ends of the scale) AND I have intermediate points.
05:18:05soapno, trigger takes the one(s) I set.
05:18:53soapSetting triggers for live recordings isn't brain surgery. You don't need to know numbers +-1dB
05:19:28soapyou'll never be in an environment that well controlled. You set your trigger thresholds based on some pretty wide spans.
05:20:03dongsyou're wrong again.
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05:20:15dongssilence threshold on the stuff i want to record is pretty close to non-silence.
05:20:16soapI'm wrong?
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05:20:30soapthen you're likely using the wrong tool.
05:21:23soapIf you need super precise silence trimming w/o loss of content the answer is to trim in post.
05:22:17dongsman, so much expert advice on everything except problem at hand.
05:22:24dongsok, how about 'pause' trigger type making new files?
05:22:29dongsgot a explasnation for that one?
05:22:47soapI've already told you how to precisely determine the dB value of this consistent silence floor you have.
05:23:12soapare you looking to fight?
05:23:36soapif not let's deal with one subject at a time. If so how about leaving?
05:23:51dongsyou havent. right now the way i have is take the random numbers, adjsut them +- a couple ticks, then go back to recording screen, notice the stop/start trigger ticks and if they're above/below noise i haveto go back to settings, change +- again, etc.
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05:24:21dongsthis could have been a one-step operation if the screen simply displayed the nubmer in peak meter.
05:24:50dongseven faster, if the recording SETTINGS screen actually displayed preview of audio form mic/whatever.
05:25:01dongsso i wouldnt have to switch between recording and settings.
05:25:23soapyou keep saying "random numbers". What numbers are random?
05:25:38dongstrigger start/stop values.
05:25:46 Quit XavierGr (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
05:25:50dongssome negative numbers without any meaning in context unless you're some audiopro.
05:25:50soapwhat's random about them?
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05:26:24soapagain, if you don't understand that 0 is full signal and all other signals are below the maximum the recorder can do...
05:26:45dongsi dont need to know this
05:26:54soapone does to use triggers properly.
05:27:05soapthey can't exactly be colourcoded.
05:27:11dongsif the input is valued as a number for setting the trigger, there has to be a way to see this number.
05:27:36dongsguesing it, counting ticks on adisplay, constantly switching between several levels of menus - this is not a solution
05:27:36soapI've told you three times how to determine this number.
05:27:47dongsnot for something that's been available as a feature since 2008 at least.
05:27:53dongsi want a precise number.
05:27:53soapIt is a solution. It is not one you like.
05:27:57dongs-35. -36. whatever.
05:28:05dongsnot some guesstimate based on counting pixels on a 0.96" display.
05:28:07soapThere is no precise number, as the real world isn't that precise.
05:28:25dongsit is in the application I need this for.
05:29:04soapI promise you right not, unless you're recording a pure tone you will never encounter a background level which (as constant as it may sound) is constant to within anything approaching as precise as that.
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05:29:29soapwhat is the application you need this for?
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05:30:06[Saint]arguing.
05:30:13soapapparently.
05:31:27dongsarent you all guys super smart to label people so quickly.
05:31:33soapwhat is the application you need this for?
05:32:41soapI've been entertaining you for 30+ minutes and you've been arguing for almost an hour, yet you still haven't explained what it is you're doing where you need dB-precise triggers.
05:33:01dongssoap, irrelevant. it could be anything where I need triggered recording with mostly silence and only some points of interest that need to be triggered.
05:33:18soapdongs, 5 or even 10dB is precise enough for that.
05:33:35soapnot irrelevant as you are saying the current system sucks as you can't (easily) determine 1dB
05:34:12soap20 dB might even be precise enough for that.
05:34:48dongsmy current settings were -35 .. -45 and it failed miserably in tons of cases.
05:34:53dongsnot to mention, making a shitton of split files
05:35:05soap"failed" tells me nothing.
05:35:24dongsit did not trigger at the condition
05:35:30soapdid it fail to trigger? Did it trigger too often? What's the background level? What's the event level?
05:35:43dongsi dont know, because I cant see the fucking level numbers!
05:35:54dongsthats what ive been bitching about here for the last fuck knows how many minutes
05:36:27soapI long ago explained how to easy eyeball them withing reason.
05:37:33 Quit the-kyle (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
05:37:54soapAnd recently explained that even 10dB is likely plenty of resolution, so you have plenty of ability to eyeball that. Set your peak meter from -96 to 0 to get full scale and adjust your gain (visible while the peak menus are visible) to get your desired sound to record up somewhere around 75% of full scale.
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05:38:10soapthen tell me where background noise levels are.
05:38:29soapI'm going to smoke. If you can't do that for me we are done.
05:42:39soap(quick cig)
05:45:49soapgood night
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14:08:42webpunki think my sansa clip is bricked .
14:08:55webpunkrockboxed it yesterday ..
14:09:12webpunkand t said usb bootlog mode
14:09:17webpunkany idea guys ?
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22:31:32wodzpamaury: ping
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22:48:12lorenzo92pamaury: was wondering if you know the firmare extractor of stmp35xx series...
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22:57:50pamaurylorenzo92: ping
22:58:03lorenzo92pamaury: pong
22:58:13pamaurymy reverse engineering effort suggest that the .sb file is written as is on the bulk endpoint of the stmp36xx in recovery mode
22:58:47 Join LordRD [0] (~LordRD@188.251.59.115)
22:58:50lorenzo92uhm...bulk endpoint means something like simple usb transfer?
22:59:02pamauryyes
22:59:39lorenzo92was thinking something like that, so probably: send data -> finish -> run?
22:59:49pamaurythe usb trace you posted on pastebin is pretty much useless in this state but if you can save the save trace in the pcap format and send it to me I can check this theory
23:00
23:00:06lorenzo92okay I try to convert it using wireshark
23:02:12lorenzo92pamaury: I have some formats like "modified tcpdump - libpcap"
23:03:40pamaurylorenzo92: if you have "wireshark/libtcpdump/... pcap" that's fine
23:04:22lorenzo92pamaury: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9f4k09z93um2ut1/uploadBootloaderUSBsniffing
23:04:53lorenzo92I just remind you that first ~67 frames aren't related to the updater
23:04:59lorenzo92but my mouse ^^
23:05:49pamaurylorenzo92: it's empty !
23:05:58lorenzo92!
23:06:11lorenzo92I'll check
23:07:37lorenzo92pamaury: damn it was owned by root ^^ https://www.dropbox.com/s/9f4k09z93um2ut1/uploadBootloaderUSBsniffing
23:09:01 Join stripwax [0] (~Miranda@rockbox/developer/stripwax)
23:09:26LordRDhello
23:09:40lorenzo92hi :)
23:09:52LordRDI need help unbricking (out trying to) my clip+
23:09:57LordRDanyone who can help me?
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23:13:20lorenzo92I don't have any experience on this player, but just write down your problem without asking if you can, sure you can ... then if someone has knowledge will help you
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23:13:40LordRD01humm
23:13:46LordRD01ok thanks
23:14:10LordRD01basicly, I'm following this guide http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaAMSUnbrick
23:15:14pamaurybertrik: funman: ping for clip+ unbricking
23:15:35LordRD01first problem is, in the image that has the recovery pins for my player, it got two circles. On the blue one my player has an resistor, am I supposed to do something to it?
23:15:53 Quit the-kyle (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
23:16:47LordRD01second problem, since I'm running windows, where am I supposed to input those commands? In the MS-DOS they're not recognized
23:17:11AlexPlinux
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23:17:42LordRD01any distro will work?
23:17:54AlexPyep
23:18:24LordRD01no way to get them working on windows?
23:18:27gevaertsLordRD: is there any particular reason you're trying to use colour?
23:18:27AlexPwhat did you do to the clip to lead you to follow that guide?
23:18:39AlexPLordRD: no, they are linux programs
23:19:28LordRD01what do you mean? what I've I done before trying this or what have caused the problem?
23:19:52AlexPboth
23:20:08LordRD01well
23:20:31LordRD01after 1 year of use the jack got loose, so I dissassembled the player
23:20:36LordRD01and soldered the jack in place
23:20:39AlexPLordRD: You seem to be using colour codes to make your text black, this means people who use white on black screens can't see what you are typing
23:20:45AlexPIt would be sensible not to do this
23:21:08LordRD01aren't you typing in black too?
23:21:13AlexPer, no
23:21:19AlexPI'm not applying any colour code
23:21:35AlexPBut you have your IRC client set to make text black on a whote background
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23:21:46LordRD01sorry
23:21:49AlexPYou are forcing a black font, which breaks things
23:21:53LordRD01I'm using a web IRC
23:22:03LordRD12any better?
23:22:05AlexPheh, OK - that is breaking things :)
23:22:24AlexPLordRD: Anyway, carry on
23:22:37Mode"#rockbox +o scorche|sh" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
23:22:44LordRD12So, I soldered the jack in place.
23:23:02LordRD12After assembeling the player, I tested it and everything was working fine
23:23:15Mode"#rockbox +c " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
23:23:26Mode"#rockbox -o scorche" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
23:23:30Mode"#rockbox -o scorche|sh" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
23:23:31LordRDbut after some minutes playing music (10/20 not sure), the player started randomly freezing, until it just black out
23:24:13LordRDI've tried soft reset, I've desoldered the battery, and it still doesn't work
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23:24:41LordRDwhen I connect it to the PC, it just shows an unknown storaged device, and asks me to format it
23:24:53LordRD(which fail if I try it)
23:24:57saratogaso you soldered something to your player and it stopped working?
23:24:58AlexPOK, thanks
23:25:13LordRDI soldered the jack in place
23:25:33LordRDit worked fine for 10-20 min and then just blacked out
23:25:33saratogawell if that made it stop working it sounds like you maybe did more then just that
23:26:11LordRDit really sound like that
23:26:17LordRDbut that's all I've done
23:26:37 Quit Rower85 (Quit: Hmmm...)
23:26:42LordRDI've already checked for burned-out resistors but everything looks fine
23:28:13LordRDbtw, I only had to resolder the bottom one, ground I guess
23:29:24lorenzo92pamaury: I may have foound something more: stmp36xx_lib.o
23:29:36lorenzo92under usb gadgets of the rootfs
23:29:38SuperBrainAKthats exactly what i did and my clip+ dies also
23:30:40LordRDSuperBrainAK, you had the same problem?
23:30:52SuperBrainAKyes a while ago
23:31:02 Quit ender (Quit: Computers are terrific - they beget terror.)
23:31:04LordRDthe solution was a new one I guess
23:31:06LordRDright?
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23:32:08SuperBrainAKwhat solution? nobody had one for me :/
23:32:45LordRDlike I said, the solution was to buy a new one ^^
23:33:11LordRDtried unbricking it?
23:33:49SuperBrainAKoh well thats a work in progress and i can wait cuz im using my ipod 2ndGen 2GB
23:34:07SuperBrainAKno i havent
23:35:07SuperBrainAKit has booted up a few times but it doesnt stay working long then it freezes
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