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#rockbox log for 2013-01-12

00:00:03pamaurygevaerts: the OF has (theoretically) support for scaling everything, but the code is so complicated that I can't tell
00:00:28 Quit djp_ (Quit: leaving)
00:01:01pamauryI don't know how the OF longs in fact. Sansa sells it at 24h but it might be more
00:01:45[Saint]I recall seeing a report of 28h in the OF somewhere...trying to find it now.
00:02:03[Saint]But, yeah, pretty sure SanDisk touts it at 24h
00:04:23pamaurywe could clock down even more actually, but I think that with cpu and emi at 64MHz, auto slow divider 8 and core speed support, we are pretty good
00:04:23pamaury*core sleep
00:06:22Shinobinot to sound like a douche, but do you know of any other ipod firmware projects that may support pdf?
00:06:42[Saint]Shinobi: There are none.
00:06:47Shinobidamn
00:06:49Shinobithanks
00:07:01[Saint]The only other one that existed was IPL, and that died a sad, sad, sad death a long time ago.
00:07:11[Saint]...and no, it didn;t support PDF either.
00:07:36ShinobiI saw the enhancement request was closed... no shot of reconsidering eh? :)
00:07:39[Saint]Rockbox is the only project of its type.
00:08:00gevaertsShinobi: we closed all feature requests, because tracking those is basically useless
00:08:04 Quit pamaury (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:08:09Shinobiah
00:08:12[Saint]I'm not sure it is possible on many of the supported players.
00:08:14 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury)
00:08:24gevaertsIf someone contributes a decent pdf reader plugin, it will most likely be accepted
00:08:29[Saint]PDF is quite resource intensiove.
00:08:41[Saint]-o
00:08:47dfktand horrible to read on small screens anyway
00:08:55*[Saint] nods
00:09:26pamauryor perhaps the ddr ram is drawing a lot of power, you guys are the electrical engineerings !
00:10:08pamaury*engineers
00:11:36ShinobiI have some language lessons in mp3 and the book in pdf and trying to find a way to put everything on the ipod. I suppose I'll have to convert...
00:12:36pamaurywell, you could try to port libdontrememberthename which handles the pdf, the hard part (I think) is finding a good way to scale things to fit them on the screen
00:13:06pamauryand of course I'm a bit suspicious when I see that my laptop takes seconds to load some pages on some pdfs...
00:13:27[Saint]Ah, yes...
00:13:35[Saint]import libdontrememberthename
00:14:46pamaurylibpoppler !
00:15:18[Saint]And, yes. My PC is more powerful than any one of my DAPs, by vast orders of magnitude, and even then it can take a few seconds to load a PDF.
00:15:45[Saint]I would be quite surprised it any of the supported players had the "guts" to load any more than the most basic PDFs.
00:15:58Shinobithinks for the info. Have a good weekend and keep up the good work!
00:16:04ShinobiThanks^^
00:17:24[Saint]pamaury: this guy? http://goo.gl/drOA3 :D
00:17:30[Saint](A "poppler")
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00:20:17pamaury[Saint]: what are the most powerful DAPs we have ? imx233 has 454MHz arm9 with 151MHz DDR RAM and 64 MB of ram, that seems quite a thing already, is PDF *that* complicated ?
00:21:02[Saint]I _think_ imx233 is the winner.
00:21:06gevaertsThe other contender would be the gigabeat s
00:21:14AlexPgigabeat s is 512 MHz IIRC
00:21:17gevaertsWe'll need a decode-off :)
00:21:20[Saint]Then the Classic, then the Nano2G
00:21:32gevaertsAlexP: nearer 600, I think
00:21:44AlexP5 something anyway :)
00:21:48gevaertsThey're different cores though, so who knows?
00:21:49AlexPbut yes, now you say it
00:21:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:21:53AlexP582 or so?
00:22:21[Saint]Wow, I didn't think the Gigabeat was /that/ powerful...
00:22:29[Saint]What were they thinking? :)
00:22:32AlexP528 is my new offer
00:22:37gevaertspamaury: can you decode ape -c5000 on fuze+? :)
00:22:53AlexP[Saint]: It was running Windows
00:22:54pamauryI think the imx233 shines more by its hardware accelerated *other* features, especially dma. Don't know, how can I check this ? :)
00:22:57gevaertsThe gigabeat S can *just* do it
00:23:18gevaertspamaury: http://download.rockbox.org/test_files/ and test_codec :)
00:23:27AlexPaha! 532 MHz
00:23:37[Saint]Sold!
00:23:40AlexPhttp://www.rockbox.org/wiki/GigabeatSInfo#CPU
00:23:42[Saint]To the man in the yellow hat.
00:23:43pamauryok, I'll see this later and tell you, take the bet :)
00:24:15*gevaerts bets one USB cable on the Gigabeat
00:24:54*pamaury thinks gevaerts should be more precise on the kind of USB cable
00:25:00gevaertsHmmm
00:25:04AlexPa broken and/or stolen one
00:25:28pamauryIf I win I could ask you a 100m long USB4 cable !
00:26:20[Saint]Obviously, we need a port to the iPod Touch (<3G)
00:26:24[Saint]~800MHZ
00:26:28[Saint]:)
00:26:45pamauryhaha, yeah, that's the awesome final point of the discussion :)
00:26:48gevaertspamaury: alright. A broken 1m or so microUSB cable :)
00:27:20pamaury[Saint]: please go ahead
00:27:34pamaurythe fund will support you if you are successful !
00:28:00[Saint]Wait....iff I'm successful? :)
00:28:18AlexPyeah, no funding for you :)
00:28:31[Saint]But...but...but...!
00:30:10pamauryactually I don't remember which players the fund bought me
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11:34:25Bretoshello
11:34:44BretosI have put my sansa fuze somewhere and now I can't find it :<
11:34:50Bretosand that's sad :<
11:35:34[Saint]Sad *and* off-topic. :)
11:36:29[Saint]I sympathize, but this isn't the place for that. Perhaps a private detective or a psychic is in order.
11:38:23Bretos[Saint]: ok, sorry, I though it's not strictly support channel ;-) But if so, I won't interrupt anymore
11:38:56[Saint]#rockbox-community exists for general musings about unrelated topics
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11:59:15lebelliumYP-R0 is powerful too, it has a iMX37 532MHz :)
12:00
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12:44:57jlbiasinipamaury: ping?
12:45:02pamaurypong
12:45:29jlbiasiniI tried to run some battery test on f+
12:45:44jlbiasinibut it seems quite buggy
12:46:15pamauryah ?
12:46:40jlbiasiniIt did goes throught the test and stopped
12:47:04jlbiasinidisplaying a freeze wps screen
12:47:39pamauryhum, with HEAD and cpu frequency scaling enabled ?
12:48:17jlbiasiniI also have often a frozen device displaying a grey screen (this one is really nasty at least we should have blue screen right?)
12:48:25jlbiasiniyes
12:49:30pamauryand without frequency scaling, does it work ?
12:49:50jlbiasiniah did not test yet
12:50:41[Saint]iiiiiiiiiiiiit's RoLo time! :)
12:51:14jlbiasiniactually i said very buggy is a bit exagerating my device went over 21h without bugging playing over the same mp3 album
12:52:24jlbiasini[Saint]: lol, by the way thnks for having puting me into it I finally found option to have a 10 sec less bios time
12:52:58jlbiasiniand no rolo pamaury didn't activated this in the tree
12:53:06[Saint]Ah.
12:53:18pamaurywhat do you mean by activate rolo ?
12:53:46jlbiasinipamaury : actually 21h is quite good, isn't it?
12:54:15jlbiasini21h 13m 46s
12:54:32pamaurybut the battery wasn't low right ?*
12:54:35jlbiasiniyour last test were about 16h isn't it
12:55:15pamaurywith HEAD mine worked 39h with scaling enabled ! And it doesn't crash !
12:55:28jlbiasiniit is but there is still some juice
12:56:44jlbiasinido you know that sansa lied about the OF running 24h and having it running 20h for real!!
12:57:13pamauryanyway if it keep crashing on yours that a bad thing
12:59:21jlbiasini"keep" is a bit too much i thing it doess crash from time to time and this grey screen is definitly a new feature but 21h hours without crash might be sufficient
12:59:53jlbiasinianyway I had a few hang without scaling to (at least till now)
13:00
13:00:11jlbiasiniI will run another test!
13:02:07pamaurycrashes are obviously not sufficient, even after 21h ! And I especially don't understand why your last only 21h with HEAD + HAVE_ADJUSTABLE_CPU_FREQ
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13:03:12pamauryand in many cases in the device crashes it ends up in a half powered state which might very well suck your battery until the end
13:03:20funmanjlbiasini: i guess sansa tests (and cheats) with the most efficient codec they have
13:05:07pamaurythat's the same of us too, I used mp3 which is quite efficient I think
13:05:48jlbiasiniI did it too with mp3
13:07:34jlbiasinipamaury : well I will run a new test without scaling first
13:08:24pamaurydo a complete rebuild of the codecs too
13:08:42pamaury(make clean && make -j 3 && make zip), I would hate a false report
13:09:02jlbiasinifunman: if pamaury manages 39h it means nearly x2 in comparaison to OF
13:09:29jlbiasinipamaury : I always do so
13:09:51pamauryjlbiasini: if you were running a battery bench, it means you have the battery_bench.txt file, can you pastebin it ?
13:09:54jlbiasinirm -fr ./*
13:10:10jlbiasini../tools/configure
13:10:50[Saint]ENOTYOURTERMINAL
13:11:05[Saint];)
13:12:05jlbiasinipamaury : ohoh no I set an album to play for ever, reset the playing time and unplug the fully charged device
13:12:43jlbiasiniI thought I was forgetting something! were is this battery test option? in plugind?
13:12:47pamaurybut you don't run the battery_bench plugin ?
13:13:01jlbiasinino! Stupid me!
13:13:35pamauryit's a plugin, it logs thez battery level every minute, that way you get much more information. It your device had crashed after 21hour with the battery half full, we would have known it
13:14:46jlbiasiniright I remember now of this plugins...
13:15:06[Saint]It is quite likely that it does so, but it is also quite important that the selected playlist is larger than the available audio buffer to guarantee the buffer is refilled (a more accurate representation of usage)
13:15:36jlbiasinihow much is the buffer?
13:16:02[Saint]Almost certainly smaller than a full album, but /maybe/ not.
13:16:24jlbiasinithen I totaly screwed up! :D
13:16:25pixelmahuh, as far as I understood, the playback system always fills it this way. If the playlist is shorter then it'll fill the buffer with "duplicates" I thought
13:16:58[Saint]pixelma: but, it wouldn't access the disk in that case?
13:17:20[Saint]That's the "important" bit. Disk access.
13:18:02[Saint]jlbiasini: Settings - System - Debug - Rockbox Info: Buffer
13:18:03pixelmaI thought it did but I don't know
13:18:12pixelmafor sure
13:18:28jlbiasiniok thanks
13:18:29[Saint]If the playlist fits entirely in RAM, it wouldn;t...I don;t think.
13:18:41[Saint]bah! I hate my ; key.
13:19:44pamauryWhen I run the test, I select my 100 songs playlist, that way I'm sure it doesn't fit
13:19:52*[Saint] nods
13:21:21jlbiasiniright 59.2MB on my device
13:24:53jlbiasinihey you compiler guru, with 4 core, is it better with make -j 3 or make -j 4 and why?
13:25:32pamauryjlbiasini: out of curiosity, what is the lcd kind of your device ? (see debug > HW Info)
13:25:50[Saint]Kinda offtopic, but, it depends how much you're willing to "spend" on compilation in terms of CPU.
13:26:05[Saint]With 4 cores, you could easily do -j8
13:26:32[Saint]cores*2 is usually quite safe
13:26:48pamauryI usually do 3 (2 cores + 1)
13:27:04jlbiasinipamaury : there is a lot of values there which one is to look for
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13:27:21pamaury"lcd kind", it's alone on a screen
13:27:21jlbiasini[Saint]: thanks
13:28:01jlbiasinist7783
13:28:35pamauryok, same as me
13:29:09[Saint](-j* is the number of threads to spawn simultaneously, btw)
13:29:14pamauryalso when you run the test, make you boot out of a proper state. Ie power off then power on, because rolo'ing after usb is unreliable
13:30:48jlbiasinipamaury: I never use rolo and for test I run with brand new compiled rockbox (no setting)
13:31:06jlbiasinino database either
13:31:07pamauryok, I'll do the same here
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13:34:01jlbiasinibut I build the zip with all fonts, i suppose it does not matter does it?
13:40:21[Saint]No.
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13:54:59pamauryjlbiasini: can you do the bench with HAVE_ADJUSTABLE_CPU_FREQ enabled ? Even if it crashes, with battery bench we'll a confirmation about the battery life
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13:55:26jlbiasiniso first with scaling?
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13:55:45jlbiasiniI hope it won't crash this time
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13:56:28jlbiasiniOMG 39h would certainly be great!!!
13:56:40pamauryI would say that if it can stand 7h+, we already have a good trend about how long it would have lasted
13:57:01wodzpamaury: clang build for rk27xx still hang despite of not making use of interrupt attribute. naked attribute seems to be buggy btw. it adds bx lr at the end
13:57:24pamaurywodz: what if you write it in assembly ?
13:57:33wodzwrite what?
13:57:45pamauryirq_handler
13:57:52wodzirq_handler()? it is in assembly entirely
13:58:09pamauryno, you wrote it in inline assembly with naked
13:58:19pamauryno ?
13:59:00wodzright, but additional bx lr should not matter as it is inserted *after* subs pc, lr, #4
13:59:16pamauryand does it insert something *before* ?
13:59:20wodzno
13:59:24pamauryok
14:00
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14:00:04wodzhttp://pastie.org/5673686
14:01:44pamauryso the bug is elsewhere
14:03:04jlbiasinipamaury : anyway I have to wait for the battery to fill up so if you correct some bug in the meantime let me know...
14:03:32pamauryI don't know why it crashes ! If I would, I would be happy to fix it !
14:07:22[Saint]scorche`: Not at all important, but I just noticed that the option to remove ones own posts isn't available on the forum anymore. I don't /want/ to do so (at least at the present point), but I thought it was worth a mention.
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14:22:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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14:34:56pamaurywodz: I've posted to the llvm dev mailing list about arm irq/fiq interrupt, no answer yet
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15:00:32Hamstenhi all
15:00:56HamstenHave anyone in there?
15:04:29Hamsten.........
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15:10:04lebelliumHere is the 1st screen of Rockbox on YP-R1 (hw similar to YP-R0): lebellium/R1/rockbox/20130112_150156.jpg">http://media.generationmp3.com/lebellium/R1/rockbox/20130112_150156.jpg :)
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16:15:38jlbiasinipamaury : ping?
16:15:47pamauryyes
16:15:58jlbiasiniI have new on my grey screen bugs
16:16:07pamaurylebellium: great
16:16:15pamauryjlbiasini: yes ?
16:16:20jlbiasiniThe player doesn't actually hangs
16:17:06jlbiasiniIf one want for backlight to goes off and then touch the touchpad again the screen is back to normal displaying
16:18:09Hamstenoh.. look have someone can talk in there
16:18:20HamstenHi
16:18:53Hamstenjlbiasini:ping?
16:18:55jlbiasinione way to reproduce it is to set 2 or 3 albums into the playlist and while playing them, navigating through the playlist
16:19:11jlbiasiniyes?
16:19:30Hamsten......
16:19:43jlbiasinihi
16:20:05pamauryHamsten: ask your question if you have one
16:20:16HamstenHi.are you dever
16:20:51HamstenThe rockbox no ipod nano3 or later
16:20:57HamstenI want to dev it
16:22:00Hamsten.............................................................................
16:22:11HamstenNo answer?!
16:22:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:22:43jlbiasiniHamsten: Your question is not really clear...
16:22:44HamstenI am not found source in home page
16:23:44Hamstenok...... I dont know How to clear talk it.
16:24:11jlbiasinisources are on git
16:24:24pamauryHamsten: don't be rude ! there are rules on irc ( http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IrcGuidelines ). If you want to help developing some target, you should get in touch we the developpers who know it. I'm not sure that some ipod devs are online right now
16:25:04pamauryyou can always send a mail to the dev mailing list (http://www.rockbox.org/mail/)
16:25:24jlbiasinihave a look here for sources: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/UsingGit
16:25:44Hamstenok.. thanks
16:26:11pamauryjlbiasini: so you mean that the player doesn't hang ? Or that the Ui hangs ? I don't quite understand
16:26:46jlbiasiniit seems to be only a screen/display problem
16:28:02jlbiasinican you reproduce it on your device?
16:28:23pamauryOk, can you describe precisely what happen. If I understand correctly you do something (navigate though the playlist), the (how ? when ?) the screen goes gray/blue but if you wait for backlight off and press a button, everything is back to normal ?
16:28:43jlbiasiniyes
16:28:59pamauryI was able to reproduce it !
16:29:09jlbiasinigood
16:29:11pamauryOk, I think I know why it happens
16:29:19jlbiasinigreat
16:29:22jlbiasiniwhy?
16:30:45jlbiasiniok I have to go for a while we'll talk later
16:30:54pamauryin lcd-fuzeplus.c, there is an inherent race condition between lcd_update() and the other lcd_* functions, because lcd_update() triggers a transfer but doesn't wait until it finishes. If the lcd_* function send commands while the screen is refreshing then it can do nasty things
16:31:07pamauryin theory that should not happen but...
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17:12:38[Saint]And, the award for worst define name goes to...
17:12:47[Saint]PATCH_IPOD6G_CLOCKING_DEBUG :)
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17:16:30GremuchnikMy audiobooks have lots of small files all in one folder. How do I configure Rockbox to resume playing on the latest bookmark not for a file, but for a *folder*? Thanks!
17:17:43 Quit bertrik (Remote host closed the connection)
17:18:09[Saint]Errr....
17:18:15[Saint]that makes no sense.
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17:20:20Gremuchnikok, let me rephrase that: you have an audiobook in one subdirectory. that audiobook is composed of many files. How do you bookmark to have RB resume at the latest bookmark?
17:21:50[Saint]http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-buildch8.html#x11-1580008.7
17:21:59[Saint]Load Last Bookmark - Yes/No/Ask
17:22:56[Saint]Searching the manual can be non-obvious sometimes, but the manual is your friend and mine.
17:24:26Gremuchnikthis solution keeps track of several recent bookmarks. What I need RB to do is to keep track of only the LATEST bookmark made inside a folder.
17:24:50[Saint]With that set, if you resume playback on any given file with one or more bookmarks it will either load the last bookmark automatically or prompt you to either laod the last bookmark or resume from the beginning.
17:25:41[Saint]Maintain a list of recent bookmarks - Unique Only
17:25:56[Saint]"Add each new bookmark to the list of recently used bookmarks, but only keep one bookmark from the current directory or playlist; any previous entries are removed."
17:26:06Gremuchnikok thanks!
17:26:19[Saint]Not a problem.
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17:28:53GremuchnikAlso, I want to say to anyone involved in the RB project: THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What an absolutely fantastic product.
17:30:03*[Saint] takes credit when credit is given
17:30:06[Saint]Thanks.
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17:45:49jhutson456does rockbox support the 160g ipod classic (link to product follows) http://www.apple.com/ipodclassic/
17:46:35gevaertsjhutson456: yes, but not in a very easy to install way. See http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IpodClassicPort for details
17:46:57jhutson456thank you.
17:47:30jhutson456Rockbox plays vorbis as well correct? I see an open bug about crashes
17:47:47[Saint]Yes, it does.
17:48:48[Saint]jhutson456: http://www.freemyipod.org/wiki/EmCORE_Installation
17:48:54gevaertsI don't know which bug you mean, but it probably involves very specific circumstances
17:48:57[Saint](an interactive installer guide)
17:49:30[Saint]gevaerts: *ages* ago, I recall some crashes with some high bitrate vorbis.
17:50:05jhutson456http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12700?string=vorbis
17:50:16jhutson456it's an android version so it may not be related
17:51:35[Saint]In theory, it _should_ be.
17:51:45gevaertsI'm fairly sure that's android-specific
17:52:05gevaertsAlso, after looking at the bug that links to, I have a suspicion it's not vorbis-related
17:52:18gevaertsThere's no clear indication he tested with other codecs
17:52:27*[Saint] nods
17:52:39[Saint]The test_files work, so, good enough for me.
17:52:53[Saint]afaik that == no problem.
17:53:03jhutson456given it's ignored status and age I figured it was a wierd thing, not serious
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17:54:05[Saint]It's also an "unusable" port.
17:54:13jhutson456I'm completely new to rockbox, is updating versious smooth or is it a full wipe/install every time
17:54:32jhutson456this would be for my wife who is technophobic
17:54:33jhutson456lol
17:54:39[Saint]Once you've installed, you can update with RockboxUtility trivially.
17:54:58gevaertsUpdating is just unpacking a new zip file over the old installation, either manually or by letting Rockbox Utility do it
17:55:07[Saint]It is important to note, though, that installation will format the disk.
17:55:12[Saint]ALL data will be lost.
17:55:17*gevaerts lets [Saint] talk about the classic, since he has one :)
17:55:20[Saint]Also, there is no dual-boot.
17:55:29jhutson456it'd be for a brand new device so no worries there
17:55:35[Saint]So, you will lose the Apple firmware.
17:55:58[Saint]This also means you will lost the ability to use most Apple accessories.
17:56:13[Saint](We don't use the iPod Accessory Protocol on this device {yet})
17:56:14gevaertsWell, you *can* restore the Apple firmware if you decide rockbox isn't for you after all
17:56:15jhutson456earbuds work still correct?
17:56:20[Saint]Yes.
17:56:31jhutson456that's really the only important thing
17:56:44[Saint]And, yes. Restoring the device to original state is very trivial.
17:56:56jhutson456do you load music with itunes?
17:57:12[Saint]No.
17:57:16[Saint]Drag and Drop.
17:57:18*gevaerts recommends having a look at the simulator to get a feel about what rockbox is like to use
17:57:56[Saint]With Rockbox, the device essentially becomes a "dumb removable storage device"
17:58:05[Saint]So, it works just like a USB thumb drive would.
17:59:00[Saint]Drag and Drop audio...Rockbox automagically detects it in the Database (if enabled), or allows you to explore/playback via the file browser.
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18:00
18:03:24[Saint]Though, I believe you *can* use iTunes to load music onto the device.
18:03:40*[Saint] is fairly certain that iTunes can sync to non-iPod devices
18:03:47gevaertsNot vorbis, I bet
18:04:03[Saint]Ah, yes, good call.
18:04:41jhutson456I'm actually really interested in rockbox now lol. What would be a good cheap starter device for checking it out?
18:04:50jhutson456get something for myself lolz
18:06:07[Saint]SanDisk Sansa Clip(V2/+/), SanDisk Sansa Fuze
18:06:13[Saint]...something like this.
18:06:28jhutson456sweet, hitting up amazon :-)
18:06:35[Saint]Cheap little flash based players with removable storage
18:07:39*[Saint] claims the Classic can be cheap, but only because the sales clerk messed up a decimal point and sold one to him for $0.79
18:10:15pamauryjlbiasini: actually, the problem might come from cpu frequency scaling: if that happens in the middle of transfer to the lcd, it can break dma by stopping access to the framebuffer, I need to check this
18:10:17jhutson456those sansa clips can swap the 4g storage for larger SD cards?
18:10:25jhutson456damn, how have I missed this...
18:10:53 Quit Shinobi (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
18:11:20[Saint]No, they can use an sdcard in *addition* to the 2/4/8Gb internal storage.
18:11:30jhutson456oh snap! that's even cooler
18:11:45[Saint]Max storage capacity of 40GB (32GB+8GB)
18:11:50jhutson456I've just always used my Android for music playing but that has it's drawbacks
18:12:03[Saint]fwiw, we have an Android port too :)
18:12:20[Saint]Oh, but, you knew that...
18:12:41jhutson456yeah, I don't want to touch my android. I'm happy with it.
18:12:52jlbiasinipamaury : that would explain why this bug came suddently after activating it!
18:13:00lebelliumisn't max storage capacity 64GB + 8GB ? :)
18:13:04jhutson456I'm gonna be experimenting with getting Arch set up on it though
18:13:11[Saint]There's no "hacking" involved. It installs as any other Android application does.
18:13:15jhutson456(Arch Linux I mean)
18:13:16jhutson456oh
18:13:16[Saint]Just a standard .apk file
18:13:24jlbiasiniSo what now should I perform the test anyway or wait that you patch this?
18:13:49jhutson456bah, gotta run, kids piano lessons. be back later though
18:13:56[Saint]o/
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18:16:10jhutson456before I go, do the 64g cards work?
18:16:30 Quit pretty_function (Remote host closed the connection)
18:16:37lebelliumthat's why I said "isn't max storage capacity 64GB + 8GB ?" :)
18:16:46lebelliumreformated in FAT32 it should work
18:17:17[Saint]Well...half and half.
18:17:35[Saint]It will work in Rockbox, but not in the original firmware...but, I guess you don;t care about that.
18:18:49*[Saint] almost forgot that 64GB microsd was actually a thing
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18:22:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:28:50pamauryjlbiasini: that's it, the dma underflows, nasty
18:32:04[Saint]I'm sure jlbiasini isn't /that/ nasty ;)
18:32:29jlbiasini:D
18:34:29pamaurythe more I think about it, the more I think it's impossible to properly clock down ! You change the emi freq you need to disconnect the ddr for a small amount of time, thus breaking virtually all dma transfers, including lcd, mmc, i2c, ...
18:34:40pamaury*To change
18:36:51pamauryThe linux port to the stmp3780 for sigmatel doesn't seem to do anything special, how can that be ?!
18:37:40jlbiasiniisn't it possible somehow to wait for the good moment to disconnect ddr
18:38:03jlbiasinior are those dma transfert permanent?
18:38:28pamauryit's possible sure, but complicated
18:38:41pamaurywell, no *that* complicated but no trivial
18:38:47pamaury*not
18:42:47pamaurywhat puzzles me is that 1) I've never thought about this problem before 2) I don't recall seeing anything in any source code to handle this in a particular way
18:44:38jlbiasiniAccording to what you say it's also strange that the problem occuring only concern display
18:45:08jlbiasiniif it is breaking all dma transfert I assumed it should totally mixed up the device
18:47:59pamaurywell, if the hardware is well done, this is not necessarily the case: i2c clock can be stretched so in case of underflow, the host can simply stop clocking and recover, it appears as a slow down but is allowed. For the mmc, that's more or less the same, the spec is a bit vague but chips must be able to handle clock changes. So perhaps there is something special with the lcd or the dma controller of the lcd is not clever enough or a has a
18:47:59pamauryspecial setting to handle that
18:48:29pamauryactually i2c and ssp have a underflow irq so I might check
18:49:25pamaurybut part of the answer is probably that i2c and ssp transfers are mostly done by the main thread which also takes care of cpu scaling, so it can't do both at the same time !
18:50:32pamauryanyway i2c is damn slow and has a fifo big enough for virtually all transfers. And ssp well, the clock is very high but transfers are short so the buffer might be big enough
18:51:53jlbiasiniso If it seems that display is the only problem, couldn't the LCD driver be modified to handle those dma break?
18:52:44jlbiasinilike some kind of cache or something (I really don't know what I'm talking about I'm just elaboring from what you are saying)
18:52:48pamaurymight be but I'm not confident enough, I would like to understand this issue better before doing anything
18:54:33jlbiasiniok so I'll will try the test anyway
18:55:37pamauryanswer for ssp: the hardware stop the clock on {under,over}flow, so it's smart
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19:01:18AbortedDataHello! My rockboxed iPod Classic has recently begun to get Data Aborts as soon as I try to alter the files on a desktop. The address is 0x7B5815F3. Any help?
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19:35:02pamauryjlbiasini: apparently the lcdif has a recover function, i've just tested and it seems to work
19:35:33pamaurywhen scrolling lists it just seems a bit "glitchy" but that's because we don't boost on scroll I guess
19:36:52[Saint]I thought all targets were supposed to boost on UI action?
19:36:59jlbiasiniok, would you push it now or do you want to run some more test on this issue first (Just to know if I should rewind my already started battery test)
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19:38:03[Saint]pamaury: have a look at http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8668
19:38:05Smokeouthi
19:38:22SmokeoutQuestion Rockbox Work on iPod Touch 5 [?
19:38:22[Saint]It is enabled only for targets with a scroll wheel, but, I guess it could be expanded for all?
19:38:37[Saint]Smokeout: No. Our main page clearly lists supported targets.
19:38:44Smokeoutthx
19:38:45pamauryyeah I think it would definitely make sense of the fuze+
19:39:14[Saint]Sorry, I thought it was enabled for all targets. I was mistaken.
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19:41:21[Saint]pamaury: I _think_ it is as simple as defining HAVE_GUI_BOOST
19:41:32pamauryah ok, thanks
19:41:43[Saint]Don;t quote me on this ;)
19:42:05jlbiasinithose hidden define stuff are killing us! :D
19:42:11[Saint]Ah, looks like that is the case.
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19:43:09[Saint]On my ToDo list is: "Make a template of available defines to assist porting to new targets"
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19:43:27[Saint]It's about 1/4 way down the list, no far away :)
19:44:23jlbiasiniI guess some sed expert could do that quite lightly
19:45:09[Saint]Yes and no. See, I don;t just want to list them, but also comment them...so I need to track them through the source and find out what the non-obviously named ones actually do :P
19:45:16pamaury[Saint]: I was aware of that gui boost thing but I thought it wasn't committed in fact
19:45:24[Saint]Making a list of all defines is easy. Commenting, not so much.
19:45:45[Saint]pamaury: It got in in 3.11
19:46:00jlbiasiniok I thought they were all commented already
19:46:05[Saint]Actually, I thought the same, though, which is why I took the link from the tracker.
19:46:12[Saint]I thought it was an abandoned patch.
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19:48:56jlbiasinilol a troyan patch!
19:49:41*pamaury just discovered the LCD_EVENT_ACTIVATION event
19:50:18[Saint]What does that do?
19:51:49pamaurywent the lcd is enabled by lcd_enable(), drivers must send lcd_event_activation
19:52:05pamauryit appears to be used to redraw the screen in sbs and mpegplayer ?!
19:52:35[Saint]Ah...*that* may be (is?) why the LCD is being "Weird (TM)"?
19:58:29wodzpamaury: did you look at rk27xx usb crash log by any chance?
19:58:53pamaurywodz: no, I'll finish my stuff about broken lcdif on imx233 and then I'll have a look
20:00
20:09:00wodzpamaury: can't you gate clock to dma engine to suspend transfer?
20:09:45pamauryno, lcdif has a dedicated dma, but it has a underflow recovery function, seems to work well
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20:14:39pamauryhum, HAVE_GUI_BOOST only works for scrolling and needs to have BUTTON_SCROLL_{BACK,FWD} defined
20:15:17wodzfamoust ipodish hack :P
20:15:34[Saint]Bah!
20:15:46*[Saint] really doesn't understand how it got in like that.
20:15:53pamauryyeah, seems ugly
20:16:12[Saint]There doesn't seem to be any reason to limit this to scrollwheel based targets
20:16:57pamauryI understand you might not want to boost on discrete events of the gui but basically as soon as you "repeat" a button, you want to scroll imo, or as soon as you repeat sufficiently many times
20:17:29wodzI guess its because that scrollwheel behave like quadrature encoder - it generates 4x interrupts then nominal ticks per revolution. I guess this could be lost if cpu is not in boost mode.
20:18:02[Saint]Ah, good call. But, it ruins the opportunity to get annoyed about something :)
20:18:30wodzanother weirdness of scrollwheel is that it doesn't emit REL events :P
20:18:39pamauryyeah but on the fuze+ you then have slowdowns when scrolling :-/
20:18:46bertrikcould be, but the sad thing is that we apparently don't even know why we do it like that
20:19:01wodzbertrik: do what?
20:19:07bertrikboost on scroll
20:19:37pamauryhuh, could you develop ?
20:19:57wodzAs I said ipods (maybe e200 also) are the only targets that may need this
20:20:29bertrikare you sure or is that a guess, is it documented somewhere?
20:20:38wodzsure it isn't
20:20:50pamauryit seems very scrollwheel specific
20:20:59wodzThats my feeling after digging for lack of REL event
20:22:06pamauryjlbiasini: can you update to HEAD, enable HAVE_ADJUSTABLE_CPU_FREQ and start torturing your fuze+ again ? If you can't get the grey screen, than I advise you start a battery bench with HAVE_ADJUSTABLE_CPU_FREQ :)
20:22:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:22:20pamauryok, time to have a look at rk27xx usb :(
20:22:48jlbiasinipamaury: thanks! Oh quite busy uh?!
20:24:01pamaurywell, I'm trying to help wodz on usb
20:26:25pamaurywodz: very strange, the transfers fails with "connection reset by peer", never seen this on usb
20:28:25jlbiasinipamaury: shouldn't I also define HAVE_GUI_BOOST?
20:28:57pamauryjlbiasini: no, it won't compile and is not need, the interface might just feel a bit slow but that's better than a crash !
20:29:14jlbiasiniright ok
20:31:02pamaurywodz: the log don't help, rockbox doesn't seem to see anything strange and the kernel just fails with a mysterious error
20:31:33wodzlovely
20:31:35pamauryI suggest that you enable the error and void irq for endpoints and panic to see
20:31:57wodzok
20:32:51pamaurythat's very weird, because if the stack was doing something wrong it would most probably not work up to this point
20:33:26pamauryand this strange error...since like the device is going offline somehow
20:33:40pamaurybecause the interrupt poll fails with "no device"
20:37:33jlbiasinipamaury: there are still some nasty hang
20:37:47jlbiasinisome time just while playing
20:38:06jlbiasinisometime while inserting album into playlist
20:38:30jlbiasinino more sound screen frozen
20:39:12pamauryhangs in the interface you mean ?
20:39:46jlbiasiniI mean complete bug. only hard reboot solution
20:40:00pamauryhuh
20:40:35jlbiasinitry inserting new song in playlist: I just had 3 crash out of 4 tries
20:41:58jlbiasinibut abviously its not happening all the time
20:42:00pamauryI don't get any freeze
20:43:32jlbiasiniright not I don't either anymore VERY STRANGE
20:43:51pamauryhah, managed to, interesting, it seems that if the playing is very large it works, otherwise it fails
20:44:06pamaury*play list
20:44:20jlbiasinigood i m not crazy
20:44:49jlbiasinihaha that would explain why it occurs only with some albums
20:45:02pamauryseems very random though
20:45:27jlbiasiniyes this will be tricky to debbug
20:47:16pamaurythat's incredibly puzzling, the emi freq change itself seems to be very dangerous, probably breaks dma, perhaps a data transfer then, or i2c despite what the manual says
20:48:01pamauryalso it's incredible how you manage to stumble on bugs immediately, very useful feature ;)
20:48:12jlbiasiniinserting single song in an empty playlist seems to be a good way to reproduce
20:48:32jlbiasiniI m kind of lucky!
20:48:37wodzpamaury: on VOID and ERR panicf() or logf() ?
20:48:37jlbiasini:D
20:48:40pamauryyeah but I had to do it ten times before successfully freezing
20:48:43pamaurywodz: panic
20:49:10pamauryto see if by chance it happen when this bug occurs
20:50:39jlbiasiniok so I guess there no use to try a battery bench for the moment
20:51:14pamauryjlbiasini: that would be interesting to confirm the batter life though, just don't touch the player once you started the tes
20:51:15pamauryt
20:52:13jlbiasiniI'll will still be there till around midnight so if you have any other fix I will test them and then go to bed with a battery test
20:56:49wodzpamaury: I get void condition on cabel plug on ep3 :P
20:57:15pamaurywodz: ok, disable void then, it's probably not that anyway
20:58:17*[Saint] has a derp moment
20:58:42[Saint]I thought of a really obvious use for JdGordon's g334 that I hadn't thought of before.
20:58:45fs-bluebotGerrit review #334 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/334 : skin_engine: new tag %xx to see if a file exists... %xx(/path/to/file) by Jonathan Gordon (changes/34/334/1)
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20:59:25[Saint]Namely: Checking to see if a font exists, and implementing multiple fallbacks
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21:00:13[Saint][Saint] - (log) remember to test this, if you don't, you are a huge jerk-face.
21:00:23derf1
21:01:21wodzpamaury: nope, error condition irq does not trigger
21:11:53wodzpamaury: http://pastie.org/5675051 I recall previous dmesg was truncated
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21:18:27dfktis there a wiki page about the capabilities of theme.cfg? the wps wiki page doesn't include features like line selector variants, etc
21:18:51 Quit jhMikeS (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
21:20:12[Saint]dfkt: Can you answer me a question, before I answer yours?
21:20:21dfkti will try :)
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21:20:56[Saint]A serious question. It may seem like piss-taking, but, I'm serious: What the flying fudge-cakes is it that makes people go to the wiki for info over the manual?
21:21:11[Saint]I need to know this. So I can kill it with fire.
21:21:54[Saint]Is it something we're doing wrong? Poisoned Google results? Other?
21:21:55dfktnot sure what you mean. the wps page with all its info is in the wiki, the simple guide as well...
21:22:40[Saint]The manual is *the* place to go. Everything on the wiki that isn't a NewPort page (and a lot of NewPort pages even) should be considered out-of-date.
21:23:08[Saint]And, to answer your question, here: http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-buildap5.html#x21-416000E
21:23:35[Saint]that _should_ be a full list of config options.
21:24:01dfktok, i went to the manual page, looked around, found stuff relevant to theming under the advanced topics section - but that is way less info than on the wps wiki page
21:24:34dfktheh, i see.. split between chapter 12 and appendix E
21:24:37[Saint]the .wps wiki page shouldn't have a lot of those options.
21:24:56[Saint]...as a giant shit-tonne of them don;t apply to the .wps/.sbs./.fms at all.
21:25:57dfkti guess then a big fat disclaimer that the manual should be consulted over the wps wiki page is in order?
21:26:27[Saint]I really didn't think it was needed. But, it seems it may be.
21:26:38dfktmaybe that answers your initial question - i had no idea the wiki page was not the main source for that kind of info
21:26:47[Saint]The manual is official documentation, whereas the wiki is the equivalent of "Some Internet Guy Said So"
21:27:29[Saint]Anyone with a wiki account could poison the wiki with bs for lulz if they wanted, and it would be pretty hard to notice them doing so.
21:28:15[Saint]If you notice something in the manual wrt: config/skin_engine, make a note of it.
21:28:25[Saint]*something missing
21:29:00[Saint]And also, thanks.
21:29:12[Saint]You did indeed answer my question.
21:30:19dfktwell, i used the wps wiki from the beginning on, force of habit, since it was there - my fault for not paying attention to the immensely updated manual topics
21:30:30[Saint]If you didn't find it, you want:
21:30:30[Saint] "selector type pointer, bar (inverse) , bar (color), bar (gradient)"
21:31:06dfktthanks :)
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21:49:08pamaury[Saint]: I think your ennemy is google and lazyness :)
21:49:59wodzpamaury: any other idea what I could test?
21:50:09pamauryand perhaps the fact that many manuals are useless so users don't have the habit of checking manuals.
21:50:30pamaurywodz: no :( I think this will have to wait until I go back and check with the usb analyzer
21:51:58wodzpamaury: but you said you couldn't reproduce the bug
21:52:23pamaurythen I'll try harder, request all the computers of all my housemates and more ^^
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21:53:55pamaurythat's the advantage of the usb analyzer: the analyzing computer doesn't need to be the bugging host
21:56:07lebelliuma manual is for a particular device and ome targets don't have a manual yet while skin engine is common to all targets. That really doesn't make sense to look at it for that. Thank you [Saint] for the config file options page, like probably most users I never saw it and I still like the wiki page better :P
21:59:54wodzthis random red shit in build table becomes annoying
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22:01:47dfktlebellium, yes, and that config manual page contains all rockbox config options merged into one list, not just the ones for a theme.cfg. it's a bit harder to look through for theming relevant options
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22:11:00[Saint]dfkt: that would be because it isn't specific to themeing.
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22:11:19[Saint]It is covering the entire config/fixed.cfg
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22:12:43[Saint]And, you guys are right...in some ways.
22:13:03[Saint]Even I don't necessarily think the manual is the /right/ place for this...but, the wiki sure isn't.
22:13:50[Saint]What we really need is a dedicated themeing resource.
22:13:56[Saint]...other than CustomWPS
22:14:14[Saint]But even then, all the config options would need to be in the manual still.
22:14:24[Saint](again, because it's not themeing specific)
22:14:45lebelliumsure that would better to have a dedicated themeing resource but as we know nobody will do that, CustomWPS will remain the reference resource for most theme designers :)
22:16:10[Saint]If I was motivated enough a day or so ago, it wouldn't exist anymore :)
22:17:47*[Saint] does NOT want an "official" document that several hundred people can poison with wrong/misleading/irrelevant information at the drp of a hat
22:17:56[Saint]*drop
22:20:06[Saint]Another problem with the wiki as an official document is that there is absolutely no obligation for a developer adding a new feature, or editing an old feature, to update it.
22:20:49[Saint]But documentation can easily be added as a barrier for acceptance to the commit process, and it is expected to be so.
22:20:52lebelliumI don't believe CustomWPS has been poisoned because everybody can edit it. It's not up-to-date and if only a few people could edit it as you wish, that would be still worse, not up-to-date at all, wouldn't it?
22:21:13[Saint]It's not even mildly up-to-date now.
22:21:33[Saint]And, neither is the manual *because* there are two sources of information.
22:21:55[Saint]It is very hard to keep two entirely seperate sources of information up-to-date.
22:22:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:23:39wodzunless you generate one from the other
22:24:11[Saint]If that kind of magic could be done, that would be great.
22:25:33[Saint]Latex>wiki_whatever may be non-trivial, though. I don't know. Latex and I do't really get along, but we will if we have to :)
22:26:53wodzI think creating aggregated html page from latex source should be doable.
22:29:13[Saint]well...that's, curious.
22:29:28[Saint]several ports on http://www.rockbox.org/manual.shtml are shown, but don't have a manual.
22:29:45[Saint]Unless both Chrome *and* FF are being weird to me?
22:30:38[Saint]all the samsungs, the m-robe, the gogears, hifiman...
22:31:32wodzdoesn't this page show all stable + unstable targets?
22:32:24[Saint]...apparently. But it seems a bit weird to show targets without a manual on the page specifically for manuals :)
22:32:48lebelliumit's to remind the devs there is much work to do :D
22:33:08wodzthe fix is easy - write the missing manuals :P
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