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#rockbox log for 2013-03-28

00:00:13lebellium[Saint]: Who has a Clip Zip with USB working flawlessly (meaning failing as often as OF, i.e. never) ?
00:00:30 Quit Rower (Quit: Hmmm...)
00:00:51[Saint]Is this some fictional world where the Zip is the only AMS target?
00:00:51[Saint]or, am I missing something?
00:01:27[Saint]the fact that it may or may not work for one target, for some people, does not negate the fact that it does for many others.
00:02:35lebelliumsure, but the question was "does USB work properly on all AMSv2 targets?"
00:02:39lebelliumI answer
00:02:42lebelliumclip zip
00:03:07[Saint]and you said "not at all"
00:03:09[Saint]which is false.
00:04:01lebelliumthat's more a linguistic problem then. I'm not a english native speaker as you know.
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00:56:44saratogaFWIW, the Clip+ USB works very well for me, although i think it still fails the first time i plug it into a new PC due to windows not finding a driver or something
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01:44:47funman[7]: it works for me at least.. i still have 2 nanos around to make tests btw
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09:53:06lebelliumkugel: what is the penultimate element?
10:00
10:06:38copperlebellium: http://prototyperaptor.bandcamp.com/album/penultimate
10:06:46copper:P
10:07:43lebelliummaybe I should have precised I refer to FS #12848 :)
10:07:45fs-bluebothttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12848 3Signal strength tag %tr doesn't divide equally when using conditionnals (bugs, unconfirmed)
10:12:33gevaertslebellium: last but one
10:19:06lebelliumhum
10:19:08lebelliumok
10:19:15lebelliumI don't know the answer then
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11:19:30subthalamushi; q1-is there a rockbox-like router focused distro for a no mmu Brecis communications MSP2010 Multi-core MIPS32 cpu device?
11:20:01subthalamusq2- anybody having rockbox running on a zen sleek?
11:23:43Zagorsubthalamus: rockbox is not linux-based, so there really are no "rockbox like" distros. but uclinux runs (ran) on the MSP2010.
11:24:35subthalamusZagor: thanks
11:26:02Zagoras for the zen sleek, no there is no port for it.
11:29:41subthalamusbut :( I saw the sleek photo was working?
11:29:48subthalamushow different are they?
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11:31:02Zagorwhere did you see that?
11:44:29kugellebellium: I mean, can you use the penultimate one for the 85%-99.9% range
11:44:49subthalamushmm, I can't find it... All I'm finding is http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/CreativeZVMPort
11:44:51kugelIIRC it's intended to have the last element be exact 100% for bar tags
11:45:47lebelliumthat's how it works for the battery indicator for example. I understood that yesterday thanks to [Saint]
11:45:58lebelliumbut I'm not sure it works the same for the signal strength tag
11:48:27lebelliumor maybe you're right
11:48:35lebelliumI'm trying %?tr<%xd(Va)|%xd(Vb)|%xd(Vc)|%xd(Vd)|%xd(Ve)|%xd(Vf)|%xd(Vf)>
11:48:41subthalamusZagor: maybe this was it, but that was in 2008 so they probably never finished? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?action=printpage;topic=14838.0
11:50:11Zagorsubthalamus: exactly. it was never even reverse engineered. no code written.
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11:56:29lebelliumoh I guess you're right Kugel. Hum I have to leave now but I'll check that further tonight
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12:16:18pamaurywodz: I got my hand on an archos 24c vision, I think it's rk2708 based, need to open it to be sure but that's written in the system information menu
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12:25:03JdGordonlebellium: ping
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12:34:26lebellium_gs2JdGordon: pong
12:35:40JdGordoni've got a new version of that patch which i accidentally pushed :/
12:35:47JdGordoni tested in the sim so it looks like it works
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12:37:04JdGordonso give it a try and close the task if it fixes it please
12:38:26lebellium_gs2Ok thanks, I'll try it tonight when I'm back home (I can't close a task though)
12:39:28JdGordonoh, ok, leave a msg if it is fixed
12:39:37JdGordonshould be :) didnt crash the sim
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13:39:21lebellium_gs2JdGordon: do you confirm FS #12848 is intended behavior and not a bug?
13:39:35lebellium_gs2FS #12848
13:39:36fs-bluebothttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12848 3Signal strength tag %tr doesn't divide equally when using conditionnals (bugs, unconfirmed)
13:40:44lebellium_gs2Actually it divides 1 to N-1 into equal parts and N = 100%
13:40:56lebellium_gs2?
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14:03:12Torneyes, that's how bars are supposed to work :)
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14:03:20Torneyou can just duplicate the last image
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14:05:28lebellium_gs2Torne: thanks. It's a bit unfortunate I understand that only today after 1 year and half themeing. Now I have to update 8 themes lol
14:06:26Torneyou're right that for signal strength it's not really importnat to distinguish 100% which will likely never happen anyway
14:06:30Tornebut i think the bar code is just generic :)
14:06:36Torneand for other things 100% is a meaningful distinction to make
14:06:45Torneso, yeah, just duplicate the last image and then it should work as you want ;)
14:07:42lebellium_gs2Great. So the bug ticket can be close I think
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14:58:25pamaurydoes someone recognise the logo on the sensor chip: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/ArchosVision24c (the small isolated chip labeled 5AG, A104) ?
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15:00:52pamauryfound, it's synaptics
15:04:41pamaurythe only manufacturer which logos doesn't match the name and which put the chip part on the third line instead of the first
15:06:25pamaurywodz: see http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/ArchosVision24c
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15:09:21pamauryfunny a mp3 with camera
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15:42:45pixelmahow can a music file have a camera? ;)
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16:25:24lebellium|Ahaha because in French "a mp3" means a "mp3 player". Powned pamaury :D
16:25:42pamauryI know, I wrote this knowing that it was incorrect ;)
16:25:56lebellium|Oh
16:26:00pamauryand pixelma fell into the trap :D
16:26:35pamaurybut even "mp3" in French is incorrect, that's spoken language only
16:26:45lebellium|Indeed
16:27:57pamauryanyway that's my only mp3 player which has a camera
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17:57:04TheSeven[69894.016033] usb 1-1.5.2.2: new high-speed USB device number 104 using ehci_hcd
17:57:04TheSeven[69894.109151] usb 1-1.5.2.2: New USB device found, idVendor=ffff, idProduct=abcd
17:57:04TheSeven[69894.109157] usb 1-1.5.2.2: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3
17:57:04DBUGEnqueued KICK TheSeven
17:57:04TheSeven[69894.109160] usb 1-1.5.2.2: Product: iPod Nano 2G USB Test
17:57:05TheSeven[69894.109162] usb 1-1.5.2.2: Manufacturer: TheSeven
17:57:06***Alert Mode level 1
17:57:06TheSeven[69894.109168] usb 1-1.5.2.2: SerialNumber: ????????????
17:57:38CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
17:57:38*TheSeven build a little ~4kB standalone USB binary using his stm32 code base
17:58:03TheSevenso yes, this is a completely different USB driver and stack
17:58:25TheSevennow that we have a working code base to compare with, who wants to take up porting it to rockbox? :)
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18:02:08pamauryTheSeven: I can do this I guess
18:02:43pamaurycan you recall me where is your code ? I can do a quick and dirt port and post it to gerrit, I'll let you debug ^^
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18:04:23TheSeventheseven.bounceme.net/~theseven/tmp/nano2g-usbtest.tar.gz">http://theseven.bounceme.net/~theseven/tmp/nano2g-usbtest.tar.gz
18:05:09gevaertsTheSeven: we need both, configurable in Settings/System ;)
18:05:21gevaertsRockbox is all about choice!
18:05:32TheSevenlol
18:05:57*TheSeven was surprised that it took him less than 24h to port the required parts of his stm32 firmware code base to the s5l8701 :)
18:06:12pamauryI don't have the nano2g so obviously I can't test ^^
18:07:07***Alert Mode OFF
18:07:15*TheSeven wonders how much differences there are in the usb core <=> driver interface between rockbox and his own core
18:07:30TheSevengiven that I was influenced by rockbox's one before I wrote that one, probably not too many
18:08:03TheSevenit uses a fundamentally different approach for handling ep0 packets though
18:10:24pamauryThe problem with rockbox usb stack is that it has to deal with different drivers and some of them don't really work that way. I would that it is not quite adapted to the synopsys otg, too high level not really event driven but nothing prevents you from reimplementing that in the driver if necessary
18:11:50gevaertsMaybe we need an optional middle layer?
18:13:06TheSevengevaerts: you probably know more about the other USB drivers than me, but I'd think that the core to driver interface that I've used is fairly generic and can be adapted to most use cases.
18:13:37gevaertsI only really know the arc one, which seems to be the odd one out
18:14:44TheSevenhttp://pastie.org/7152723
18:15:17TheSevendo you think the arc one could be mapped to that somehow?
18:15:45pamauryTheSeven: can you confirm that arm/s5l8700/usb-s5l8700.c is unused
18:16:26TheSeventhat looks like a stub for meizu m3/m6 and yp-something
18:16:32pamauryTheSeven: how do you transfer out data on ep0 ?
18:16:38pamaury(with your interface)
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18:17:01TheSevenOUT in usb sense? (i.e. host to device)?
18:17:11pamauryyes
18:17:28pamauryep0_start_rx doesn't take any buffer
18:17:40TheSeventhe driver listens to that and reports it to the core from an IRQ handler
18:19:43TheSevenpamaury: http://pastie.org/7152777
18:19:55TheSeventhat's the driver-to-core direction
18:20:21TheSevener, usb_ep0_start_rx and usb_ep0_start_tx don't belong in there
18:20:58pamauryI don't get it, the driver has an internal buffer from that which it gives to the core on completion ?
18:21:17*gevaerts tries to remember how it all works
18:21:21TheSevenand in struct usb_instance there's a 64 byte buffer for setup packets
18:22:03pamauryhum, so that's quite synopsys specific because you cannot received more than 64 bytes of data at a time on EP0
18:22:09TheSeventhat's what I meant with "ep0 is handled funamentally different"
18:22:09pamaury*receive
18:22:49TheSevenhm, I wonder if that only applies to setup packets
18:22:57TheSevenwhich can never be more than 64 bytes
18:23:52pamauryon the synopsys, everything is packet-based iirc (in pio mode), so you cannot receive more than one packet. I don't remember all the details of it
18:24:56pamauryit's the same core as the on the amsv2 right ? I can test on the clip+ then
18:26:29TheSevenlooks like it can indeed only handle 64 bytes at a time on ep0
18:27:29TheSevencould probably be changed though
18:27:59pamauryyour driver uses PIO or DMA or either ?
18:28:05TheSevenit can do both
18:28:44TheSevenits PIO mode is really funny, you basically re-implement its DMA engine in software
18:30:47TheSevenchanging that driver to receive ep0 data into an arbitrary buffer would be trivial, but then it could happen that a setup packet ends up inside it while you're expecting a data stage => might needs special care
18:31:12TheSevenbut, tbh, do we really need to do >64 bytes on EP0?
18:31:52gevaertsIN (i.e. device to host), definitely. OUT, not sure
18:31:56TheSeven(only affects the host-to-device direction, the other direction can already handle several kilobytes at once)
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18:32:21TheSeventhe only standard device request that could use it is SET_DESCRIPTOR IIRC
18:32:35pamauryI don't think any of our drivers needs >64 on OUT, we don't implement set_descriptor anyway iirc
18:32:50TheSevenyeah, that's why I made that decision as well to keep things simple
18:33:02*gevaerts nods
18:34:06TheSeventhe only other real difference of the _ep0 variant of the transfer functions is that they take care of the ep0-specific handshaking method
18:34:27TheSeveni.e. automatically expect acknowledgements etc.
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18:35:22TheSeventhey could probably be merged with the normal ones, with maybe an additional argument
18:35:37pamauryyep, that's the major difference
18:36:41pamauryok let's go, I'll try to port it and test it on the clip+, the other tricky usb device ^^
18:42:27pamauryhum, TheSeven do you mind if I rockboxize your driver, ie replace some define/enum by existing rockbox types ?
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18:44:11TheSevensure, go ahead
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19:02:19kugelJdGordon: is your last commit a 3.13.1 canditate?
19:04:21TheSevenis that the usual misbehavior? http://pastie.org/7153222
19:11:04pamauryTheSeven: yes afaik
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19:11:35pamaurya ums transfer fails, host reset the device and usually you die afterwards
19:11:53pamaurywe have a similar bug on rk27xx usb too
19:12:05pamaurythough the bugs on nano2g and clip+ are not limited to this
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19:15:26pamauryTheSeven: does the driver really need the instance and for what ?
19:16:04TheSevenin the device that I wrote it for I have two USB interfaces to deal with
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19:16:32pamauryok, so I can safely remove it in our case
19:16:37TheSevenprobably
19:18:11TheSeventhings that you might need to adjust to make it work on a different device: phy configuration (GUSBCFG register: phy type, turnaround time, ...) and FIFO sizes/allocation
19:19:10TheSeventhe values that the driver currently uses are correct for the nano2g (16bit phy, turnaround=5, 1024 words fifo size)
19:19:12pamauryyeah, iirc the default fifo config on clip+ was weird/incorrect and turnaround time well I don't know
19:20:22TheSevendon't trust what those information registers say about fifo sizes
19:20:34TheSevenI've seen at least one case where that was totally wrong
19:20:54TheSeven(and another case where the manual was wrong but the registers were right)
19:20:58TheSevenboth on the same SoC
19:24:28pamauryok
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19:45:39pamauryTheSeven: where is the config used by the ipodnano2g ? I can't find it anywhere in your code
19:45:53pamauryconfig=synopsysotg config
19:47:12TheSevenwhat kind of config?
19:47:45pamauryah found, in a header !
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19:48:17TheSevenyeah, that's a bit of a hack to keep it generic :)
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20:13:38gevaertsHmmm, we seem to have some code that assumes HAVE_LCD_BITMAP if we have SWCODEC
20:16:45gevaertsOr rather, that working with bitmaps implies having an lcd :)
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20:45:47 Join godzirra [0] (~godzirra@208.110.69.202)
20:46:01godzirraHey guys. I read that the sandisk clip and clip+ is supported. Is this considered a clip or clip+? http://www.bestbuy.com/site/SanDisk+-+Sansa+Clip+Zip+4+GB+Flash+MP3+Player+-+Red/3029079.p?id=1218373614839&skuId=3029079&st=sansa%20clip+&cp=1&lp=2
20:47:57gevaertsThat's a clip zip
20:48:04godzirraI realize that.
20:48:13godzirraMy question was whether rockbox supports it or not.
20:48:31gevaertsIt does
20:48:38gevaertsBut that wasn't your question ;)
20:48:47godzirraWell, it was my question, but I didn't really voice it very well. ;)
20:49:11godzirraOut of curiousity, does the FM tuner still work in rockbox?
20:49:19gevaertsyes
20:50:01godzirraLast time I had a rockbox enabled device was when the iRiver iH120 was new. I miss it.
20:50:07godzirraThanks. I'll be picking one up and flashing it today then. :D
20:50:39godzirraUgh, it says rifght on the webpage clip zip. Sorry. I totally missed that.
20:52:11godzirraLast question.. is there a way to generate smart playlists? That's the only thing I really like about itunes. (literally the only thing)
20:52:36godzirraOr even better, a way to export playlists from itunes?s
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20:54:55gevaertsIf itunes can export standard m3u playlists, yes. I have no idea if it can
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21:03:21Guest10755Can anyone help me? I'm trying to install Rockbox on a Sansa Clip V1, the automatic installation completes fine (using m300a.bin from the Sansa website as the original firmware when it asks for it) but when I start the device it just loads the original firmware and not Rockbox.
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21:14:03gevaertsGuest10755: did rockbox utility detect it as a V1?
21:14:29Guest10755Nope, it crashes when trying to autodetect so I set it manually
21:15:25gevaertsOK, so are you *sure* it's a v1? What you describe could easily happen if you just gave it the wrong firmware
21:15:53Guest10755yup, I bought it a few months after they were released
21:15:57Guest10755it's from 2007 or something
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21:17:33*gevaerts isn't sure then
21:18:01Guest10755Thanks anyway man :)
21:19:54wenceslausHey, I have a Ipod Classic 160GB with emCore+Rockbox that worked great for months, but today I tried charging it and it has become stuck on the USB plugged in screen and doesn't respond to any button presses nor can Windows recognize it when plugged in. Anything I can do or is it bricked?
21:20:20TheSevenit doesn't even respond to the reset button combination?
21:20:22TheSeven(menu+select)
21:20:31wenceslausNo
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21:22:06TheSevenhm, try unplugging it, toggling the log switch back and forth, and pressing and holding menu+select again
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21:23:10TheSevenif that still doesn't help, unplug it and wait for the battery to drain (can take several hours of course)
21:24:01wenceslausOK, I've tried different button combinations with hold switch on and off. I think just letting it die is my last option.
21:26:17TheSevenlocking and unlocking it should reset the clickwheel, which should respond to the reset button combination and kill the power supply, hm.
21:27:22*gevaerts once managed to get his ipod video in a state where it wouldn't respond to the reset combination
21:27:33gevaertsI cheated though
21:27:40*TheSeven personally hasn't managed that yet, but heard reports of it
21:28:14gevaertsTheSeven: set random voltages on various pins of the power controller. Guaranteed to make things unstable :)
21:29:05gevaertsSo I know it's *possible* to get it in such a state. That doesn't mean it's likely to happen in normal use though
21:29:12gevaertsAnd yes, if it
21:29:26gevaerts's something like that, letting the battery run out will help
21:30:21wenceslausOK, thanks for the reply.
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22:19:38lebelliumFS #12838 fixed. Thank you JdGordon!
22:19:40fs-bluebothttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12838 3data abort in radio debug screen (bugs, unconfirmed)
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22:42:50 Join saratoga [0] (123e0ceb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.18.62.12.235)
22:43:04saratogapamaury: if you ask funman, maybe he can send you my old Nano2G (i think he still have it anyway)
22:44:44saratoga(I think he still *has* it anyway)
22:48:12saratogaregarding GSOC, I'd love to help people with codec projects, but my responsibilities this year prevent me from actually being in charge of anyone's project
22:48:37saratogabut i could comentor with someone who had a more flexible schedule
22:49:54scorche|shnot near enough people have stepped up for GSoC to have a chance this year...
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23:09:47derfSo, https://people.xiph.org/~tterribe/tmp/01.%20Axel%20F.opus seems to crash funman's sansa clip 100% of the time.
23:09:52derfUsing the latest git.
23:14:20saratogadoes it crash the sim?
23:15:05 Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Bye ;))
23:15:45kugelscorche|sh: what do you mean?
23:17:21scorche|shkugel: i mean that there has been very little interest in GSoC this year - less than the year we decided to pull out...
23:17:40scorche|sha couple of people have sent a mail with an idea or 2
23:17:58scorche|shvery little to no full mentors available
23:18:03derfsaratoga: That is a good question. I never got the sim working.
23:18:23saratogaderf: do you have windows? theres prebuilt binaries online
23:18:38derfsaratoga: I do not.
23:18:50saratogaok building on linux is usually pretty easy
23:18:53saratogaFWIW
23:19:15kugelscorche|sh: the mailing list activity this year much bigger this year (but still rather low)
23:19:24kugellast year there were a total of 2 mails
23:19:43scorche|shkugel: still not near enough to even bother making an effort of applying
23:20:34scorche|shno work has been done on the ideas list, etc
23:20:40kugelwe have enough possible mentors for 2 projects, that seems good enough to me
23:20:51kugelwe don't need many projects, even one would be fine IMO
23:22:11derfsaratoga: Okay, built... it does not crash.
23:22:24scorche|shkugel: i am not sure what you are basing this "seems good" and "we dont need many projects" on, but it is not the case at all
23:22:39saratogaderf: huh ok that makes trouble shooting harder
23:23:17saratogaopus uses malloc correct? perhaps the sim has a little bit more memory available ?
23:23:36saratogai believe there was some weirdness about how memory was allocated on the sim but i forget
23:23:48kugelscorche|sh: you said we don't have enough mentors candidates. but we don't need many if we plan for 1 or 2 projects, do we?
23:24:37scorche|shkugel: there is no planning for 1 or 2 projects at the org application process
23:24:43derfsaratoga: Yes, it does.
23:24:53scorche|shall orgs submit applications and then they are accepted based off of those
23:25:04saratogai think if there is interest its worth applying and seeing if we get good students
23:25:18kugelscorche|sh: I understand that
23:25:31scorche|shkugel: even if we wanted 2 projects, i would want at least 4-5 mentors which we dont have
23:25:46kugelso why do you base "we shouldn't bother applying" on "not enough mentors"
23:25:56saratogaderf: is it worth printf'ing the malloc function to see if we run out of buffer?
23:26:06scorche|shsaratoga: we wont get to the good students part, because we are not near a level where we would be accepted to participate
23:26:31scorche|shkugel: because willing mentors are a factor in org acceptance
23:26:42scorche|shwe dont have them
23:27:16kugelif we can list at least 3 mentors that seems good enough to attempt an application IMO
23:27:41derfsaratoga: codec_malloc(), or one of the libopus functions?
23:27:59scorche|shkugel: it sint
23:28:11saratogaderf: I would just hook into whatever the opus wrapper is and check to see if the allocated memory gets to
23:28:16scorche|shkugel: as i said, i am not sure where you are getting this "seems good enough" from
23:28:25saratogai've found all sorts of codec bugs that way over the years
23:28:43saratogapeople come up with weird bitstreams that manage to do huge mallocs with surprising frequency
23:28:58saratogaparticularly in ogg
23:29:27kugelscorche|sh: I don't have a basis other than that I consider it good
23:29:40saratogaso we'd need a half dozen mentors?
23:29:56kugelI've seen a project with 2 possible mentors being accepted and assigned a single student slot
23:30:02kugelif that's any basis
23:30:18gevaertsHow many serious mentors do we have right now?
23:30:55saratogayeah can we just ask for one slot?
23:31:01kugela lot of projects don't even have that many regular contributors, let alone mentors
23:31:08scorche|shsaratoga: it doesnt work like that...
23:31:27derfsaratoga: Okay, that doesn't fail in the simulator.
23:31:41kugelI don't see why we need 5+ mentors to even try applying
23:31:47derf(just the libopus allocs, not the ogg ones)
23:31:52saratogahow much memory does it end up allocating?
23:32:03scorche|shkugel: i have been to many mentor summits, have been the admin of multiple orgs, and have been very active in #gsoc for quite a few years - i think i have a good feeling of how likely an app is to be accepted...i know the right things to say and everything, but a good bit of work needs to be done to the ideas page and we need more mentors
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23:32:27kugelgevaerts: 2 have said they would mentor
23:32:30scorche|shgoogle does look at activity too - when we had many more mentors and more interest, we almost didnt get accepted
23:32:31derfOh, the ogg functions already print their allocations.
23:33:21scorche|shgoogle does accept smaller orgs with a bit of history for 1-2 slots, but our history is actualyl working against us here
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23:33:53kugelwell, our org is in fact getting smaller
23:34:00scorche|shour past performance means we would need to demonstrate an above-average dedication to be considered
23:34:07gevaertsscorche|sh: whatever the chances of getting accepted, do you think applying would hurt in the long term?
23:35:18kugelif our higher activity times are the benchmark then we don't even need to think about gsoc anymore. we're only getting less active with less contributors
23:35:29derfHrm, it is not actually picking up my definitions.
23:36:02kugelalso, yea, I'm not sure applying would hurt even if we have only a little chance of being accepted (?)
23:36:54scorche|shgevaerts: i think making a half-hearted effort (which it seems we would be making judging from recent activity) would, yes - as i said earlier, our history is working against us - we havent honestly performed well in the past and to make another half-hearted effort would only take us down more in their eyes
23:37:09scorche|shsure, i guess it wouldnt hurt in the context of us not ever doing GSoC again though
23:37:31saratogaderf: I have to step out, but i would check if the malloc buffer gets relatively low, as that might overflow on target and cause unpredictable crashes
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23:38:07saratogaanother possibility is that some of the ARM optimization breaks things, but thats probably less likely since we would have noticed bad ASM by now i think
23:38:16scorche|shpeople suggesting un-fleshed-out ideas on the mailing list is not enough though - as i said in previous emails, a big effort needs to go on to refurbish and flesh out our ideas list
23:38:24derfsaratoga: Yeah, mallocs seem most likely.
23:38:28saratogacould be some kind of memory corruption though that only occurs on some memory layouts
23:38:34derfBut as I said, it's not using any of these routines.
23:38:42saratogai've seen that in our codecs before
23:38:44saratogaok
23:38:51derfI.e., the opus_alloc in opus_config.h
23:38:52gevaertsscorche|sh: exactly. Now I *don't* think applying with only two mentors is a good idea, but I also don't think we need to pretend we can realistically apply as a large organisation
23:39:05derfNor the default opus_alloc in os_support.h
23:39:05kugelscorche|sh: we haven't performed well? I would say our success rate is pretty solid (13/19), isnt it?
23:39:12gevaertsI'd say four mentors is a good minimum
23:39:19saratogaderf: i'm not sure how its defined actually
23:39:45derfAlso fun is that changing any of these files does not cause make to think anything needs to be rebuilt.
23:40:22gevaertsI'm willing to mentor any project in areas I know a bit about, but I don't think I'm the best mentor ever, and I honestly don't have the motivation to work on the ideas list and the application
23:40:27scorche|shgevaerts: but thats the thing - you arent selecting to be large or small - Google would likely look at us and see that we were larger, but are fading off - newer, smaller orgs would be at a much bigger advantage than us - hence my talking about an above-average effort
23:40:55derfHrm, no, #error confirms it is compiling this file... it just never calls opus_alloc().
23:41:02scorche|shgevaerts: i dont think anyone does, as i have asked for 2+ years to have that done and the most anyone does is suggest ideas on the ML that can be added
23:41:09gevaertsscorche|sh: yes. If I were them, I'd look for new and promising organisations, but then I'm not them :)
23:41:19scorche|shgevaerts: the last great push was when you and i did it for the last time we participated
23:41:19saratogaderf: tried grep?
23:41:31saratogai don't have a linux machine handy
23:41:33scorche|shand we didnt even do near what we wished to do
23:42:13kugelin what way does the ideas list need work? just _more_ ideas or something else??
23:42:58gevaertskugel: I'd say that first of all ideas without a matching mentor should be removed
23:43:28scorche|shkugel: http://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-dev-archive-2012-03/0023.shtml
23:44:04gevaertsscorche|sh: what I'm really getting at is that *if* some people are willing to spend the next 24 hours to get a decent albeit small proposal on time, I think we should let them get on with it
23:44:40kugelheh, I have removed all mentors because they need to confirm themselve this year
23:45:21gevaertskugel: I'm guessing you started from the 2011 page?
23:45:23kugelI understand that if we need at least one mentor listed for each (and other work) on the ideas list it's probably too late now
23:45:32scorche|shgevaerts: sure, but i am also saying that i just ahvent seen a motivation within the community for GSoC
23:45:35kugelgevaerts: sure, that's how we do it :p
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23:46:09scorche|shthe only people who have really said much in IRC is kugel and saratoga and if i am remembering right, both have said that they would not be willing to be a full-time mentor
23:46:49gevaertskugel: having each possible mentor go over the list probably isn't realistic, no, but if you know the candidate mentors, you know the project well enough to match them yourself :)
23:46:51scorche|shpamaury said he could mentor
23:47:13kugelwodz and pamaury said they would do it on the ml
23:47:57gevaertskugel: we also *really* need to make sure obsolete ideas are removed. We forgot a few of those last time IIRC, and they're probably still there
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23:48:05scorche|shgevaerts: i pretty much echo your thoughts on the ML...
23:48:32gevaertshmmm
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23:48:57gevaertsscorche|sh: do you remember if it's possible to start applying in melange and then withdraw before the deadline?
23:49:26scorche|shgevaerts: if i recall correctly, you have to submit the actual application
23:49:33gevaertsIf so, I'd say kugel should just get on with it :)
23:49:53gevaertsand then tomorrow we make the final decision
23:50:21scorche|shif he can drum up the support and get things done, i will be very excited =)
23:50:56scorche|shi just havent seen anything yet to get excited about and i dont feel like going over our application without the support of quite a few members of the group
23:51:06 Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik)
23:51:12gevaertsSo let's stop being negative. Only positive talk and silence allowed for the next 18 hours :)
23:51:27scorche|shok =)
23:52:05gevaertsSo who's org admin this year?
23:52:40scorche|shi dont mind being it again, but i have to see the group behind it first ;)
23:55:24 Join kaputnik_ [0] (~kaputnik@p5DD9DCE8.dip.t-dialin.net)
23:56:24kugelI'm off to bed

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