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#rockbox log for 2013-04-03

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08:22:06[Saint]hum - forum spam.
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08:45:06JdGordon_[Saint]: (brain spam), so lets say the skins were draw with LUA... any ideas how we should do it to make it useful?
08:45:35JdGordon_i mean, i dont think haveing a funciton in the lua script "draw_wps()" would be very useful
08:45:36[Saint]"well"
08:46:15 Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
08:46:54JdGordon_i tihnk the best way to do it would be to really write the entire ui in LUA!
08:46:57[Saint]Honestly - I don't know enough about LUA or Rockbox's implementation thereof to be of much use here.
08:46:59JdGordon_everything above playback
08:47:10JdGordon_opening the floor to everyone :p
08:48:13[Saint]I think the big problem would be making sure we didn't go backwards. Its only really useful if we can do everything we can do now - and more.
08:50:00JdGordon_im getting more and more frsutrated with the themeing
08:50:28JdGordon_I've got these horrible thoughts of xml and xslt
08:51:01funmanhtml5/css is all we need!
08:55:16JdGordon_what's the Qt thing ubuntu wants to move to?
08:56:30 Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik)
08:57:00funmanQML?
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08:58:28JdGordon_thats the one
09:00
09:00:01JdGordon_we shld implement that
09:00:21JdGordon_or alternativly, how the heck do we do the list in a sensible way :/
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09:03:16 Join Raptors [0] (~whoneedsa@216-58-33-203.cpe.distributel.net)
09:03:57[Saint]can someone nuke the forum spam please?
09:04:17[Saint]http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,42925.msg218366.html#msg218366 and http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,39117.msg218365.html#msg218365
09:05:25kugelJdGordon_: how about not at all for a while :)
09:06:20kugelbut yea, I know what you mean
09:07:45[Saint]I recently found out how hilariously broken touchscreen+skinned lists is.
09:08:05[Saint]scrolling is *really* weird when you try mix the two.
09:08:30kugelbut really, we should ask ourself if it's worth the trouble to extend the skin engine even further as it's getting more and more complicated
09:08:58kugel[Saint]: I repeatedly reported that :)
09:09:33[Saint]kugel: yeah - I recall. I avoided skinned lists like the plague initially.
09:09:40[Saint]the syntax seemed really odd to me.
09:09:46[Saint]but, I had to use it eventually :)
09:10:08[Saint]There was no way to do what I wanted without it.
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09:12:10JdGordon_kugel: thats not really the right question... the better one is "should it be rolled back a bit and call it quits"?
09:12:17 Join Raptors [0] (~whoneedsa@216-58-33-203.cpe.distributel.net)
09:12:36[Saint]rolled back to what?
09:12:45[Saint]or, when, rather.
09:12:54JdGordon_i dunno
09:13:03[Saint]and...why?
09:13:07JdGordon_well, really its, is there really any point conitnuieing with it at all?
09:13:26kugelskin engine v3 could be a gsoc project, for a completely new language
09:13:38kugelperhaps xml based or whatever
09:13:52[Saint]JdGordon_: you're aware of the fact that you have zero obligation here, right?
09:13:56[Saint]...just checking.
09:13:57kugelbut xml is equally a pain for themers without decent gui editor
09:14:00JdGordon_hehe duh!
09:14:11JdGordon_kugel: qml would be the obvious choice then for a full rewrite
09:14:24JdGordon_but xml+xslt to convert to the current language is actually doable
09:14:34[Saint]It seems like you've pegged yourself as "the skin guy", and it often seems to do you more harm than good - from an outside perspective.
09:14:43JdGordon_assuming xml is easier to write for parts of it (which i think it is getting to that point)
09:15:00kugelJdGordon_: have you looked at qml yet (a few minutes ago you didn't even know the name)?
09:15:13JdGordon_I've looked at it in the past, just forgot the name
09:15:45JdGordon_I beleive the current language is actually fine, but impossible to read to do complicated stuff
09:16:11JdGordon_[Saint]: yes, I know :) but im limited on itches to scratch
09:16:11kugelqml allows to js-like embed code, I don't think we can sensibly implement that
09:16:27JdGordon_no real reason why not
09:16:39kugelthe language is horrible to write, horrible to read and horrible to extend
09:16:49JdGordon_which?
09:16:54kugelthe current one
09:16:56*[Saint] is just looking out for his second favorite Gordon
09:17:03[Saint](the first being Flash - of course)
09:18:17JdGordon_kugel: hence why im thinking xml for the user side
09:18:26kugelanyway, I don't know what the most significat problems of the skin engine are
09:18:39kugelthere's probably more than the language
09:18:57JdGordon_xml could also allow better editors and potentially existing applications to build the layouts
09:19:21JdGordon_removing the whole parser from the code would be pretty awesome, xml->binary
09:20:16 Join petur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
09:20:42JdGordon_all the problems are the fact that skins are static
09:21:28[Saint]I'm not sure how the language solves that.
09:22:35JdGordon_if that complextiy is moved off the device then it can be much more flexible (in my head)
09:23:39[Saint]"moved off the device"?
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09:29:50JdGordon_the language can also solve it because the tokens we have just arnt possible to make it do complex things with it still being readbale
09:31:36[Saint]I don't think it being human readable (at a glance) should really factor into it as much as you think it needs to
09:32:16[Saint]cabbie can be commented out to fuck as a teaching tool if need be - or, we could re-write the docs
09:32:23[Saint]Hell - that needs to happen anyway.
09:33:21[Saint]Killing that damn wiki page and merging it with the manual is still on my ToDo. But - uggggh - time.
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09:34:40[Saint]I guess what I'm saying is that there's plenty of languages people use regularly that are *far* less readable than the skin engine's.
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09:35:34[Saint]I may be an outlier (apparently I am), but I find the skin engine lang quite trivial to parse.
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09:51:49JdGordon_you're definitly an outlier :p
09:51:58JdGordon_I can't figure out other peopls code at all
09:53:41[Saint]Made altogether more hilarious by the fact that you're basically the father of it :)
09:54:02[Saint]You're the Rockbox equivalent of Dr. Frankenstein.
09:54:26[Saint]Giving birth to a (seemingly) hideous monster no one understands ;)
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09:59:26JdGordon_I didnt quite invent it
09:59:36JdGordon_but i sure turned it into the abomination it is today :p
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10:01:49[Saint]In many instances - you've improved it as well, though.
10:04:41kugelany new skin language should be designed so that widgets and elements can be mapped easily to other toolkits
10:05:45kugelmp3 players are dead (but I'm not saying we shouldn't support them), but we can't succeed with the app as long as we're carrying the UI onto those platforms
10:07:01kugelotoh we don't have enough resources for two or more apps/* layers...or any major gui overhaul
10:07:29[Saint]Yup.
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10:10:22JdGordon_well, raaaa is a whole other argument
10:11:46kugelyes and no
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10:16:35gevaertsThe nice thing about the playback/gui intermixing is that it's easy to find people to blame
10:21:13Triffid_Huntermy sansa clip+ has under-runs with certain tracks, and with the fm radio while on the fm radio screen.. the radio stops under-running when I bring up the menu, but the stored tracks don't :(
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10:49:15wodzbertrik: (log) You are familiar with our TEA5767 driver. Maybe you could look at http://www.marcmart.com/ebay/o/OT275/Rda5807%20FM%20Stereo%20LOW-IF%20Digital%20Radio%20Module%20DIY%20For%20MP3MP4%20Player%20I2C%20SPI%20NEW%20%28OT275%29.pdf and check if we are doing something unsuported by this chip in TEA compatible mode?
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11:15:09wodzpamaury: ping
11:15:16pamaurypong
11:15:24pamauryi'm looking at the rda datasheet
11:19:21wodzpamaury: After thinking a bit about weird rk27xx screw up I have theory what happened.
11:19:29gevaertshmmm
11:19:46gevaertsDon't radio chips tend to directly send audio to the audio chips?
11:20:46pamaurygevaerts: depends
11:21:33wodzpamaury: I think OF you launched can have slightly different ftl incompatible with nand loader. It updated ftl metadata and screwed up loading from system partition that way
11:23:06pamaurymake sense
11:24:22wodzI still think how to fix the issue
11:24:59pamaurythat's a somewhat bad news though: it means there are several incompatible FTL, or that depending on the exact rk27xx chip it is not the same
11:25:51wodzI think that pair nand loader + OF matters
11:26:27wodzand I think it depends on nand loader revision not rk27xx chip itself
11:26:44wodzanyway that is rather bad news, yes
11:30:48pamauryarg the rda datasheet is not in english !
11:31:38wodzwhat have you expected :P
11:33:59pamauryafaict, the registers in tea mode are exactly the same
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11:37:08*[Saint] sets himself in coffee mode
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11:57:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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14:54:49redhotHello Rockboxers!
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19:57:14godzirraDOes anyone else use a sansa clip zip?
19:57:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:57:28godzirraOccasionally when plugging it into USB it will say "Invalid instruction" and then I have to hard power off.
19:57:49godzirraSo far it seems to only happen when the clip is already off, and then I plug in the usb without turning it on, but I haven't had it for very long, so that may just be coincidental.
20:00
20:00:48funmangodzirra: known issue
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20:26:19webguest50wodz, pamaury I managed to get the FMradio working on my rk27xx dap using the patch from here http://kildekode.ru/sandbox/6440/Rockbox-dlya-vsekh.htm . still have the patch pasted it here if it helps. http://pastebin.com/L7TDjJvj
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20:36:24godzirrafunman: Bummer. Okay. Thanks.
20:36:35godzirrafunman: Is it known why it happens, or is there a way to avoid it? Or just reboot and move on?
20:36:48funmanreboot and move on
20:36:51godzirraCool.
20:36:53 Quit uwe_mobile__ (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
20:37:00godzirraDoes rockbox support ratings? and where are they stored?
20:40:05 Quit froggyman (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
20:42:58AlexPyes I think so, and in the database
20:43:02AlexPCheck the manual
20:43:43AlexP(maybe)
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20:44:18godzirrathanks.
20:44:36godzirraI'm trying to figure the best way to copy the itunes rating over.
20:45:12AlexPI wouldn't imagine there is any way really
20:45:38AlexPI'm also no longer sure about ratings
20:45:45bertrikWhat's that ritmix player? similar to anything we already support?
20:45:58AlexPah yes, we do have ratings
20:46:04AlexPbut internal to the db only
20:47:35AlexPIt might be included in the import/export db function
20:47:59 Join mt [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/mt)
20:48:19AlexPIn which case you could probably write something to export it from itunes and format it correctly into your existing data. If not, I'd guess you would need to write something to interact with the db files
20:48:28AlexPBut I don't really know, I don't use the db
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20:50:04godzirraAlexP: Yeah, that's what I was trying to figure out.
20:50:08godzirraI'm fine with writing something to export it.
20:50:12godzirraI'm just not sure how to format it for rockbox.
20:50:18godzirraAll ratings in rockbox are stored in the db? Hrm. okay.
20:50:29godzirraIs there an easy way to rate an entire playlist?
20:50:33AlexPSo are the itunes ones, no?
20:50:36godzirraI'll just read up.
20:50:37AlexPno
20:50:43godzirraYeah, but I can separate by playlist.
20:50:50AlexPTry exporting the db and see if they are there
20:50:56AlexPIf not, you'll need to read the code
20:50:59godzirraHow do I do that?
20:51:02godzirraExport the db I mean
20:51:07AlexPyou rtfm
20:51:11AlexP:)
20:51:16godzirraFair enough. ;p
20:53:00godzirraI wish there was a s earch for the online manual.
20:53:56AlexPyour browser has a search
20:54:05AlexPHow else would we implement it?
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20:54:10godzirraYes, but the online manual is separated into different sections.
20:54:16godzirraSo I have to click each section and search individually.
20:54:16 Nick Zambezi_ is now known as Zambezi (Zulu@unaffiliated/zambezi)
20:54:30AlexPSo how do you suggest we implement online search for that?
20:54:40godzirraUse a prebuilt search product?
20:54:43godzirraIts not hard to add one.
20:54:53AlexPso you do it yourself via google
20:55:04AlexPtell it what subdomain to use
20:55:11AlexPor, just download the pdf and search that
20:55:11godzirraCan you limit to a specific path?
20:55:16godzirraYeah, that's the easier route.
20:55:20AlexPask google
20:55:25godzirraBut an online search would still be nice.
20:55:31AlexPSo implement one
20:55:51AlexPYou seem to have failed to notice that this is a volunteer project done in people's spare time
20:55:59AlexPAnd given away completely for free
20:56:08godzirraNo need to get defensive. I wasn't saying "OMG you guys suck" or anything.
20:56:18godzirraIn fact, my current mp3 player I bought specifically so I could reinstall rockbox. I love you guys. ;)
20:56:45AlexPAll I see here is constant I wish I could do this, why isn't there this, etc.
20:57:13godzirraSorry, I didn't mean to hit a nerve. I'm looking at the best way to implement a search engine already. Who would I talk to if I wanted to help?
20:57:31godzirraActually, if the docs got separated into sub domains, we could just use the standard google plugin to search them?
20:57:42AlexPThe website is largely in git
20:57:46*gevaerts recommends searchiong the pdf
20:57:46godzirraOh, cool.
20:57:48godzirraI'll look.
20:58:10AlexPFeel free to offer patches. However, I really would stop trying to make things hard for yourself and search the pdf
20:58:39godzirraI don't think I'm making things hard for myself I think I'm making things easier for others who are searching.
20:58:44godzirraYou don't think it would be useful?
20:59:05AlexPSomewhat, but not enough to spend lots of spare time doing
20:59:28AlexPBut should you wish to then that would potentially be great
20:59:33godzirraI'm not a C guy, so I can't really help write rockbox code. If I could help do something useful, I'd be happy to.
20:59:46AlexPZagor runs the website btw
21:00
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21:00:56godzirraOkay.
21:01:19godzirraI don't know that I've ever seen him online. Does he hop onto irc?
21:01:53AlexPyes, during the day
21:01:55AlexP(EU)
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21:02:12godzirraGot it. Thanks.
21:06:22AlexPgodzirra: I don't mean to be too down btw, but the answer for why you can't do something is that nobody has done it
21:06:26AlexP(usually)
21:06:44AlexPSometimes there are technical/philosophical reasons
21:06:49godzirraFair enough. I take everything on irc with a green of salt, so no worries.
21:06:56godzirraA grain of salt too. (Green salt? Ew)
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23:12:13bluebrothergodzirra: the online manual _does_ have a search button. Scroll up to the top of the page ...
23:12:51 Join kaputnik__ [0] (~kaputnik@port-92-206-118-239.dynamic.qsc.de)
23:13:04bluebrotherthe only "problem" is that it isn't present on the title page and when following links to the subpages the links direct the browser to start with the text, not the header
23:14:13bluebrother(and the search actually uses Google, pointing it to the correct domain / path)
23:14:17bluebrotherAlexP: ^^
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23:30:29wodzbertrik: ping
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23:47:59wodzbertrik, pamaury: In fm debug screen on my rk27xx readback values are periodically changing: 34 d1 09 60 02, 2c aa 02 00 58, ff ff ff ff ff
23:48:20bertrikwodz: what fm tuner chip is this?
23:48:32bertrikdo you think it could be RDS or something like that?
23:49:23pamaurywodz: that's suprising, the first two bytes should not change or hardly because it's mostly pll setup
23:50:12pamauryexcept if you are seeking of course, the ff ff ff ff ff is weird thoug
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23:55:35wodzbertrik: its rda5807 driven in tea compatibility mode
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