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#rockbox log for 2013-04-30

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00:17:17 Join Water [0] (
00:19:45WaterHello. On Sansa Fuze+, does recording work? Manual says yes, but 'not implemented' is what this page says:
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00:25:51WaterHello. On Sansa Fuze+, does recording work? Manual says yes, but 'not implemented' is what this page says:
00:27:19funmanWater: the manual is incorrect
00:27:27funmanrecording is enabled, but it doesn't work
00:28:38WaterCare to guess if it ever will work?
00:29:28funmanif someone does the work sure
00:29:41pamauryrecording is not implemented on fuze+, I have a personal branch where it is implemented but it doesn't work
00:30:17pamaurythat's rather low priority at the moment unfortunately
00:30:30funmanpamaury: should HAVE_RECORDING be removed from config file in the time being?
00:30:40funmani guess the manual would remove the recording section automatically
00:30:48WaterOkay, thanks guys. Just wanted to make sure it hadn't been deemed impossible.
00:31:37pamauryfunman: I guess so. Sure it's possible, it's just that there is much work going on on related targets and not enough man power :)
00:31:47pamauryWater: ^
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01:08:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:36:52madcat1990Hey bluebrother I did it again
02:36:59madcat1990got a data abort at 0005020c
02:37:08madcat1990after changing the contrast on my iPod
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03:29:21madcat1990bluebrother^, you there?
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09:20:12 Join Water [0] (
09:20:17aelinoea would this work with sansa clip 8gb with rockbox?
09:21:09WaterHey guys. Just wondering if any DAP manufacturer has ever acknowledged Rockbox? Or even recomended it to someone?
09:22:56Zagoracknowledged, yes. recommended, no :-)
09:24:19Zagorsome say the ipod firmware encryption was added because of rockbox. I guess that's one form of acknowledgement... :-)
09:25:03Waterhaha. Never owned an ipod −− assuming you guys got around the encryption...?
09:25:40Zagorthe early ones were easy. later models have been increasingly hard.
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09:59:19Zagornice flag in the build table :)
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10:38:45GodEaterZagor: did you have to fix anything in the end? Or did it just start working again?
10:38:48GodEater(and thanks btw)
10:38:59GodEaterI wasn't expecting to be at the top
10:39:05gevaertsGodEater: it was all your fault!
10:39:20*GodEater shuffles his feet and looks at the floor
10:39:23GodEaterwhat did I do?
10:39:33Zagoryou changed the casing of your name :)
10:39:43Zagorfrom atlas-godeater in 2009 to atlas-GodEater now
10:40:00GodEateroh dear
10:40:02Zagormysql treats it like the same name, but perl hash lists don't :-)
10:40:40Zagora nice little bug
10:41:21GodEateroh well, I'm glad you sorted it out :)
10:41:33Zagorso am I!
10:42:07GodEaterprobably because it means I'll stop pestering you? :)
10:43:14Zagorhmm, someone should really take pity on the recorder build
10:43:34gevaertsI suspect cost estimates are wrong for geode
10:44:15gevaertsspeedy now has an estimated speed of 4, which means it gets *slightly* more expensive builds, which means it's starting to get rounds without any results
10:47:36ZagorI think it's more about having bad luck with getting overtaken by others
10:49:00Zagorthe last 25 completed builds have all been speed 3-6
10:49:04Zagor*boot builds
10:49:21Zagorwps builds go slower, with speeds 1-3
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10:51:14gevaertsAnyway, I should do a calibration run one of these days
10:51:20gevaerts(*not* on speedy)
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11:22:40copperpamaury_: "There is more background noise on the rockboxed Fuze+ than on the OF or rockboxed Clip+. The reason seems to be that the volume control is implemented differently. With the Fuze+ with OF and the rockboxed Clip+ the noise amount rises with the volume control, with the rockboxed Fuze+ the noise is on max regardless of the volume setting. (Hardware amp on max, using software volume control?)"
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11:23:41pamaurycopper: that's right, thanks for making me aware of it
11:24:07pamauryi'll try to change the volume to see if it's better
11:25:16coppernot my idea
11:25:23copperbut it kinda makes sense
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11:29:39copperpamaury: please let me know whenever I can try something with my sensitive IEMs (I don't hear any hiss with other cans)
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11:39:19pamaury_copper: i'll try implement something in the afternoon and i'll ask you to try it for me ^^
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12:40:45wodzpamaury: ping
12:41:10pamauryi'm sorry, I completely forgot the zsp stuff
12:41:29wodzno problem
12:42:11wodzI have a question regarding yuv blit. In f+ you almost replicated blit function from lcd-memframe.c. What is the actual difference?
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12:44:40pamaury_there is no different, it's just that I never made the fix to use the standard implementation (because I thought I would use the hardware converter)
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12:45:46wodzah, ok
12:46:12pamaurybut since I'm reimplement many stuff about imx233 on my personal branch (which I should merge soon), I didn't care doing it on trunk
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12:48:15wodzNo problem, I was thinking about implementing yuv bliting on rk27generic so I look at existing implementations.
12:48:57pamauryin doubt, ask kugel, I think he was the one to clean up this
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12:54:16pamaurycopper: can you try this: pamaury/5487990">
12:54:55copperer, I don't have a build environment
12:56:16copperlemme see if I can doo eet
12:56:29pamauryI can upload a binary if you want
12:56:41copperthat would be nice
12:57:45copperI'm getting a git copy
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12:59:22copper.sansa? What's that?
12:59:35copperoh i see
13:00:34copperok I'm gonna try it
13:01:34pamauryI didn't care to upload a full zip, just binary should do
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13:08:18copperpamaury_: ok, I think *maybe* it makes a difference
13:08:26copperit's too faint for me
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13:08:39copperlebellium might hear a more pronounced difference
13:08:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:09:10pamaury_I'll need to make some measurement to be sure, i think with this I hear less noise but that might be psychological ^^
13:09:52fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision 61f9dbc, 214 builds, 39 clients.
13:09:57copperwhat would you measure though?
13:10:16coppermy RMAA measurements don't show any hiss
13:12:15pamaury_I think the problem was more about background noise, anyway if you can make a RMAA test before and after patch that would be interesting
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20:39:39kugelnew round of my scroll/lcd/puts rework. 53 files changed, 1242 insertions(+), 1279 deletions(-)
20:40:01kugelalso, largely due to scroll rework: ram usage down by ~7k
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20:54:16kugelit's on gerrit. please test and review :)
21:07:30pamaurycopper: rmaa comparison with patch:
21:08:03pamauryI'm not a 100% confident in my setup since i'm using wine but at least it seems to change something !
21:09:46copperthat FR looks really funky, and those noise levels are insane
21:10:11copperlemme do my own
21:11:17pamauryhum, didn't pay attention for FR, it seems weird indeed
21:11:28copperdid you play a lossy file?
21:11:50copperbecause that looks exactly like lossy
21:12:43pamauryi'll redo the test
21:12:52copperI'm gonna run mine in the mean time
21:13:06copperdid you change anything since the binary that you linked me to earlier?
21:13:40kugelpamaury: which patch?
21:13:51pamaurycopper: no
21:13:56copper17:03:09 UTC <pamaury> copper:
21:14:06pamaurykugel: volume adjustement on fuze+
21:19:34copperpamaury: forgot to disable DRC or something?
21:19:53copper91% THD!!!
21:20:07copperyour results are seriously wrong
21:20:14pamaurythe new tests look much more reasonable, let me finish
21:20:29copperyou can record using linux tools
21:20:34copperno need for wine for that
21:21:44pamauryfunny, now with the patch it changes nearly nothing
21:22:19bassgeishai just plugged in to charge the sandisk zip clip and then uplugged it and it says undefined instru pc:30800000 sp:3
21:22:27bassgeishanow it wont do nething
21:22:40copperdynamic range, 95.1dB
21:22:42pamaurycopper: I've updated the comparison, same address
21:22:43bassgeishai unlugged it b4 it said that btw
21:23:55bassgeishaplugged it back in and said failed
21:24:00bassgeishato install device softward
21:24:06bassgeishae* and i cant turn it off
21:24:35*bassgeisha D:
21:25:04gevaertsbassgeisha: a hard reset should fix that
21:25:18madcat1990emergency HDD mode FTW
21:25:29bassgeishanot had todo that what button should i push
21:25:34pamaurycopper: for the record, that's at -30dB on device*
21:25:54copperyou need to run your tests at dB
21:26:09bassgeishanvm got it
21:26:22pamaurycopper: if I do that, there will be no difference for sure
21:26:22bassgeishawtf happened there
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21:28:08copperI see what you mean
21:28:43pamauryplus you hardly listen to something at 0dB :-o
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21:29:48copperthat's not the point
21:30:10coppera proper RMAA is run at full level
21:30:19copperalso, wouldn't the noise be louder at 0dB
21:30:34copperI get no trace of any noise whatsoever in my measurements
21:30:55pamauryI disagree, we are talking about a patch for something with only applies for -x dB, if you run it at 0dB, there is no point, we cannot improve the situation any further with volume adjustment
21:31:59coppermy point is that even at full blast, there is no trace of any noise
21:32:13coppereven though it's perceivably louder
21:32:40copperI'm not sure that RMAA could measure the noise, because RMAA is done by playing a file
21:33:46pamaurythey which kind of noise are people complaining about if it's not when playing a file ?!
21:33:56copperat full blast, the signal to noise ratio is pretty much perfect for a 16 bit device
21:34:55copperpamaury: stick some sensitive IEMs with good foams in your ears, plug them into a Fuze+, turned off. Turn it on: notice the difference
21:35:00copperthat's what people are talking about
21:35:09copperI never said it bothered me during music playback
21:35:25pamauryhum, ok
21:35:39copperbut clearly RMAA isn't picking it up
21:35:49coppereven when loaded
21:35:52copperwith the same IEMs
21:36:27copperthe Fuze+ scores as high as the iPod Classic, which does NOT have any hiss
21:36:34coppersame SNR value
21:36:51copperI don't know why
21:36:58copperI don't know what's going on exactly
21:37:03copperI'm not an expert
21:37:04gevaertsDifferent load?
21:37:07pamauryso it would be noise when not playing anything ?
21:37:08coppersame load
21:37:14coppersame IEMs
21:37:16gevaertsI mean RMAA vs IEMs
21:37:23pamaurydoes it happen between tracks or only after boot ?
21:37:28coppergevaerts: RMAA is done unloaded and loaded
21:37:52copperpamaury: I couldn't say really
21:38:02coppergevaerts: with a stereo splitter
21:38:14copperthat's why I mention the load in my measurements (see my link)
21:38:39gevaertsWell, assuming that load is similar to the IEMs', that should then show it
21:38:50copperpamaury: I always hear it when plugging my Shures into the Fuze+, but it nevers bothers me when playing music, even between tracks
21:38:50pamauryThe difference could come from the way I init the dac, it's a bit tricky, you have to push samples to avoid the pop, maybe that's causes some background noise after init and before actually playing
21:39:03copperI couldn't say if I get used to it, or don't hear it to begin with
21:39:24copperthough I remember that the hiss was worse when playing a digitally silent file
21:39:34coppera silent flac
21:40:03coppergevaerts: the load isn't "similar", it's exactly the same, since I use the same IEMs
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21:40:19gevaertscopper: that assumes the splitter doesn't introduce any variation
21:40:23copperthe high impedance "load" of the line-in is negligible
21:40:33pamaurycopper: indeed, I see what you mean by the "hiss" at startup, let me try something
21:40:34gevaertsBut yes
21:40:51gevaertsSo you've proven the noise isn't there. Annoying :)
21:41:11copperI know it's there, it's just that RMAA can't measure it, apparently
21:41:29copperwhich gives credance to audiophools claiming that what they hear can't be measured!
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21:45:18copperNwAvGuy would know what's up
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21:48:11madcat1990Does anyone here handle fixes for iPod Mini 2G?
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21:53:38copperI wonder if the iPod's higher impedance (5.5Ω) has anything to do with the fact that I don't hear any hiss with it
21:54:03copperI can't really compare to my Clip+ (low impedance like the Fuze+), because it suffers from CPU noise
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21:54:26copperwhich I do hear between tracks, so it's actually worse than the Fuze+
21:55:00madcat1990The noise in the Fuze+ is such a well known flaw, hasn't anyone ever find a fix for it?
21:55:27coppermadcat1990: pamaury is working on it
21:55:35copperhe's trying stuff, and we're trying to measure it
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21:56:02copperalso, I can only hear that flaw with sensitive IEMs
21:56:06coppernot with regular headphones
21:56:28copperif it was regular noise, RMAA would pick it up
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21:56:47copperI get the feeling that we're missing something, or thinking about it the wrong way
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21:56:54pamauryactually I wonder if I cannot hear this noise even on music, if it's "calm" enough
21:56:54pamauryweird ^^
21:56:57madcat1990Maybe it has to be done on the hardware level?
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21:57:18copperpamaury: play a silent FLAC
21:57:28coppermake a silent WAV in audacity, compress to flac
21:57:31copper"generate silence"
21:57:52copperer, compressing to FLAC doesn't matter
21:57:52pamauryok, let me try that
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21:58:27copperor does it? I haven't actually tried playing a WAV instead of a FLAC.
22:00:15pamauryindeed, I can clearly hear it with silent file
22:00:36madcat1990WAV is just RAW audio.
22:00:52pamauryand the OF doesn't have this problem ?
22:03:42copperI can't actually use the OF
22:03:48copperthat thing is a horror show
22:04:04copperhold on
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22:04:53copperI bet some OF developer commited sepuku to save his honor
22:05:11madcat1990I'm sorry, OF?
22:05:24copperoriginal firmware
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22:06:18madcat1990Ah. Well, I'm sure the OF isn't THAT BAD
22:06:37coppermadcat1990: seriously, it's completely unusable
22:06:41copperit's notoriously bad
22:07:09copperpamaury: right now the OF reads "loading" (my music collection, I assume), and I hear zero noise so far
22:07:16pamauryI find it absolutely horrible
22:07:17madcat1990If what you say its true, Sepuku wouldn't be enough
22:07:34coppermadcat1990: sepuku washes all shame
22:08:04copperpamaury: ah, the sound system wasn't initialize
22:08:14copperOF finished "loading" and now I hear a slight hiss
22:09:24copperless pronounced I think
22:09:28copperbut it's there
22:09:34madcat1990It's scared! It's ready to attack! be careful of the hissing!
22:09:35copperit's very faint
22:09:47copperalso, I don't know how to play music on that thing
22:10:18copperit didn't find any music, presumably because it doesn't support musepack
22:10:38copperbut the difference can be heard when plugging and unplugging the IEMs
22:11:06pamauryThe thing is that i'm absolutely not a sound/eletrical engineer, I can't make any sense of all the cryptic registers you can tweak for the DAC. And reverse engineering of the OF is very complicated for that part
22:11:30madcat1990Are we talking about the Clip+?
22:11:39wodzfuze plus
22:12:22copperpamaury: again I can't be sure, but I think your patch helps a bit?
22:12:29copperit certainly doesn't hurt
22:12:42madcat1990Hmm, fuse plus uses this : Now to find the DAC...
22:12:54copperI lost all my setings somehow
22:12:56pamauryyeah, but if you push volume to ~0dB or more in silence, it's clearly there
22:13:20pamaurymadcat1990: no the fuze+ uses the internal of the i.MX233
22:13:45pamaurythe AS3525 is used by the fuze/fuzev2/clip/clipv2/clip+
22:14:19madcat1990I see
22:21:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:37:24copperpamaury: what went wrong with your first RMAA?
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