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#rockbox log for 2013-05-12

00:00:23 Join kugel_ [0] (~kugel@141.45.176.104)
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00:07:59Mode"#rockbox +o ChanServ " by hobana.freenode.net
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00:20:37 Quit redtape|renegade (Quit: Leaving)
00:23:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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00:38:43 Quit ender` (Quit: Technically Emily should be the one to do it, given that she was the youngest, but Emily was cooking a dead cat over the stove and had to keep stirring it.-- Ilona Andrews: On the Edge)
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00:45:34 Quit ej0rge (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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00:47:16 Quit logbot- (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
00:47:16***ERROR: (Closing Link: giant.haxx.se (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)) from hobana.freenode.net
00:47:16***Cleanup
00:47:16***Cleanup
00:47:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:47:16***Exit
00:47:18***Started Dancer V4.16
00:47:18***Connected to irc.freenode.net on port 6667
00:47:18***Logfile for #rockbox started
00:47:18Mode"logbot :+i" by logbot
00:47:24***Server message 501: 'logbot :Unknown MODE flag'
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00:59:13***ERROR: (Closing Link: giant.haxx.se (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)) from leguin.freenode.net
00:59:13***Cleanup
00:59:13***Cleanup
00:59:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:59:13***Exit
00:59:15***Started Dancer V4.16
00:59:15***Connected to irc.freenode.net on port 6667
00:59:15***Logfile for #rockbox started
00:59:17Mode"logbot- :+i" by logbot-
00:59:24***Server message 501: 'logbot- :Unknown MODE flag'
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03:09:49fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision 0a7d941, 214 builds, 21 clients.
03:09:58madcat1990new build! :O!
03:10:01*madcat1990 checks changelog
03:12:45[Saint]well, you're easily excited aren't you? :)
03:15:59fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Build round completed after 369 seconds.
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03:31:11fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision af4c55b, 214 builds, 21 clients.
03:33:04jhMikeSThe build table looks funny in the browser when there aren't enough errors :\
03:33:17jhMikeS* especially when in progress
03:33:44jhMikeSsome colspan seems to be missing
03:33:51madcat1990Was that a bug?
03:33:54madcat1990maybe I shoul've reported that
03:33:58madcat1990been like that for about a week
03:34:19madcat1990and yes! I get excited over every build!
03:36:42fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Build round completed after 330 seconds.
03:37:19[Saint]what the hell?
03:37:35[Saint]build round completed...errr? :)
03:37:56[Saint]*now* its completed.
03:38:12jhMikeSlooks like mobanda-Rondom is making *some* red to keep things from just about completely disappearing :)
03:38:30[Saint]fs-bluebot is getting ahead of itself.
03:38:39*[Saint] wonders what triggers that.
03:39:11jhMikeSIt knows before the main site knows?
03:39:34[Saint]It gave the report ~50 seconds before thew round completed.
03:39:42[Saint]I was watching it count down in my browser.
03:40:46jhMikeSsometimes the browser updates after the build really completes. I refreshed and it was complete afaics
03:41:44[Saint]I poked it a few times to refresh when it was counting down...it seems there's quite some amount of lag there.
03:41:58[Saint]almost a full minute.
03:44:00madcat1990shouldn't it timeout by then?
03:44:02jhMikeSweird, didn't seem that way from here, then again, I seem to skip whole days of the week for no reason
03:44:06[Saint][13:33:54] <madcat1990> Was that a bug?
03:44:06[Saint][13:33:58] <madcat1990> maybe I shoul've reported that
03:44:06[Saint][13:34:01] <madcat1990> been like that for about a week <−− No, not a bug - and its been like that for a little bit longer than a week.
03:44:22[Saint]if, in fact, you count "forever" as "a little bit longer" :)
03:44:52[Saint]There's a toggle on the page for the full/compact build table. The compact table only shows errors.
03:45:08[Saint]so, it is behaving exactly as it should.
03:45:45[Saint]s/errors/targets that errored/
03:45:57SuperBrainAKso new update for rockbox in the works?
03:46:13jhMikeS[Saint]: *I* was mentioning the fact that the countdown line isn't spanning all the columns but was pushing SDL Application way over
03:46:14SuperBrainAKor version i guess
03:46:41[Saint]jhMikeS: Oh? Which browser? Looked fine to me.
03:46:50[Saint]SuperBrainAK: There always is...
03:47:01SuperBrainAKhehe
03:47:19[Saint]Commits roll in at any time, freeze/release every three months.
03:47:23[Saint]Been this way for years.
03:47:27jhMikeSjust the retarded old ie on this xp machine :) could likely be the reason
03:48:06jhMikeSimagine if it were once a month
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09:12:11Maxdamantuswould getting an OOM message in rockboy after doing my own compilation likely come from using gcc 4.4.8 rather than 4.4.4?
09:12:33*Maxdamantus wonders how to get 4.4.4 in gcc's git mirror -_-
09:15:28Maxdamantuser .. on Clip Zip, that is .. I think the rockbox build system suggested to use 4.4.4
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09:15:44Maxdamantusmaybe that's just for arm, dunno.
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09:17:32Maxdamantusah, the commit messages say things like: BASE-VER: Set to 4.4.4
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10:20:17MaxdamantusYeah, doesn't happen with 4.4.4.
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11:54:18bluebrotherMaxdamantus: we have rockboxdev.sh which sets up the toolchan for you :)
11:54:47bluebrother[Saint]: bluebot announces the build information as announced by the build server. I.e. the information the client running on the same machine gets.
11:55:20[Saint]Aha> Right. Thanks.
11:55:23bluebrotherno idea how the website is hooked into that but seeing the code (it's actually a separate script) doesn't make me surprised to see the website lagging a bit
11:55:38bluebrotherso unless the build server is lying to its client the bot is "more" correct :P
11:56:10[Saint]when I looked it was around 50s behind.
11:56:20[Saint]that's quite some lag.
11:56:23bluebrotherunfortunately the build master doesn't seem to do the build result analysis, so making it announce the build results is a bit harder than just modifying the message it sends to the clients
11:56:35*Maxdamantus likes having a copy of the repositories for Linux/gcc/etc so he can just grab what he wants when he wants it.
11:56:57bluebrothermaybe those scripts are simply run once per minute? Though I actually have no idea :)
11:58:54[Saint]Yeah - its *sooooo* much easier keeping a metric tonne of repos fresh, and using up all that wasted disk space, to get a few packages than it is using <insert_package_manager_here> to get them from a central repo.
11:58:57[Saint]Yep. :)
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12:01:24bluebrothersure!
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12:01:54bluebrotherisn't that obvious?
12:02:13bluebrotherreminds me that it might be a good idea to up date the Fedora compiler packages.
12:02:22bluebrotherthough I'm wondering if anyone is actually using those ...
12:08:40Maxdamantus<insert_package_manager_here>, unless you're referring to rockboxdev.sh, doesn't apply that no-libunwind (whatever that is) patch when building gcc for the arm-eabi target.
12:10:27Maxdamantusalso, never really understood crossdev.
12:10:52MaxdamantusMaybe other package managers have simpler cross compiler systems.
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13:54:44*gevaerts wants to know more about mobanda-Rondom
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14:07:17CtcpPing from gevaerts!~fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts
14:07:30CtcpPing from gevaerts!~fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts
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14:29:54|beowulf|hi
14:30:37|beowulf|could somebody please add FlorianFranzmann to the WikiUsersGroup?
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14:37:29gevaerts|beowulf|: done
14:37:36|beowulf|gevaerts: thanks :)
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15:30:11TheSeven[Saint]: re: that forum thread about clip OF boot by default... wouldn't making the OF default require changing the dualboot stub?
15:30:39TheSeventhat's about the only place where things can really horribly go wrong...
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15:50:42*Maxdamantus wonders if he should remove the OF.
15:50:49MaxdamantusProbably not.
15:51:14*Maxdamantus doesn't like kind-of-unnecessarily having non-free software on the device though.
15:52:11gevaertsMaxdamantus: on a sansa device? Good luck
15:52:31gevaertsYou'd be the first to do that
15:52:38Maxdamantuswhat's that meant to mean?
15:53:26Maxdamantusrather than some other device which has an initial recovery firmware?
15:53:51gevaertsHow were you planning to remove the OF from a clip zip?
15:54:25MaxdamantusI was kind of under the impression that the rockbox bootloader really *IS* the firmware.
15:54:33Maxdamantusand the OF is just part of that
15:56:11gevaertsAs far as I know, it's the reverse, although of course that's a bit of a definitions game
15:56:52pamauryif I remember correctly, on the sansa like the clip zip we modify the OF bootloader to include our code, so there is a binary containg OF + our code. But this is not our main firmware, just the bootloader
15:56:53Maxdamantusby "is the firmware" I mean: at least part of the rockbox bootloader is executed before any of the OF
15:57:08gevaertsHowever, whichever way it is, you can of course remove all bits of the OF not involved in booting rockbox. You'd have to make sure you hey it right though, and you're likely to only get one attempt
15:57:32gevaertss/hey/get/
15:58:17n1sjhMikeS: any plans for coldfire asm for the new resmapler, i was thinking about giving it a try
15:58:27Maxdamantusand if a new version of rockbox happens to fail for some reason, I'm screwed.
15:58:32gevaertsYes
15:58:35n1ss/, i/? I/
15:58:54gevaertsExcept you're reasonably likely to be screwed long before that, if you don't get the boot code exactly right :)
15:58:54pamaurynot sure anyone is willing to take the risk, you win nothing and can loose the entire device
15:58:59MaxdamantusI think I'll leave it on.
16:00
16:00:11Maxdamantuswell, losing a Clip Zip wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
16:00:41pamaurybut what is the win ?
16:00:50MaxdamantusI bought it because it was reasonably cheap, and I could run software on it that I could modify if there was something annoying in the software.
16:01:20MaxdamantusI'd be able to claim that there is no non-free software on the device.
16:02:37gevaertsI'd say you wouldn't
16:02:38pamauryI see, I understand your point of view, but i'm afraid not so many people share it :)
16:02:53gevaertsThere's still code on the SoC that boots from the SD card that you don't have any access to
16:03:22Maxdamantusfrom the SD card? O_o
16:03:32gevaertsWell
16:03:40gevaertsThe clip zip has two sd cards, technically
16:03:46MaxdamantusAh.
16:03:46gevaertsOne removable, one not
16:03:59MaxdamantusRight.
16:04:05gevaertsSo the internal storage where the firmware sits is still SD
16:05:19gevaertsAnd there
16:05:20Maxdamantusdoes it have an SD wire interface?
16:05:26*gevaerts doesn't know
16:05:49pamaurymost SoC have a bootloader in ROM that you cannot change anyway, is that part of your non-free software definition ? If so you will never be able to remove it
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16:06:43gevaertsSomething needs to load the code from flash to RAM before it can run :)
16:06:53Maxdamantusnon-free hardware.
16:07:57Maxdamantusalso, there's meant to be some tiny bit of X-Fi development somewhere, isn't there?
16:08:34pamaurywhat do you mean by "X-Fi development" ?
16:09:11Maxdamantusporting of rockbox to the X-Fi.
16:09:24pamauryah sure, i have nearly everything working
16:09:42MaxdamantusOh, really?
16:09:46pamaurythe main issue is that the OF uses a proprietary file system
16:09:59pamauryi'm still unsure about the way to go
16:10:05MaxdamantusThere's (relatively) a lot of information on a ZVM port that's meant to be non-functional.
16:10:19gevaertsMaxdamantus: that's incorrect
16:10:28gevaertsIt's *meant* to be functional :)
16:10:32Maxdamantuswhich part? non-functional or a lot?
16:10:35MaxdamantusAh.
16:10:36gevaertsIt isn't, but that's different :)
16:10:44Maxdamantuss/meant/considered/
16:11:12pamauryon the X-Fi though we still have a early way out: boot from SD card formatted with FAT and just forgot about the internal storage
16:11:29pamaurybetter than nothing until we decide what to do with this custom file system
16:11:38*Maxdamantus has an X-Fi with a broken SD card slot.
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16:11:49gevaertspamaury: can we do that, and allow users to reformat the internal storage if they don't need the OF?
16:11:52Maxdamantusjust won't click in for some reason.
16:12:02Maxdamantusalso managed to break the keypad off trying to fix it
16:12:16Maxdamantusbut I can put that back on .. did it yesterday wrong and cbf going back.
16:12:47Maxdamantusso now the buttons are just holes that you push something (like a headphone jack) into.
16:13:14pamaurygevaerts: yes, I have read/write access to the internal storage, and the creative recovery mode can reformat the device (in theory, never tried). So that would be feasibly I guess. We would still need to parse the proprietary partition table though
16:13:51Maxdamantusis the code that gets to that point available somewhere?
16:14:32MaxdamantusI might be interested in having a look at it
16:14:42pamauryto which point ?
16:14:55Maxdamantusreading/writing the internal storage
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16:16:52pamauryI have most of the code in my branch (pamaury/rockbox-1/tree/imx233-renaming">https://github.com/pamaury/rockbox-1/tree/imx233-renaming) but at this point there are no install instruction and it is very unstable still
16:16:52pamauryand I haven't committed the x-fi port iirc yet
16:16:53gevaertspamaury: I'd say that's a good option then. If at all possible, we can also support this loopback FAT image thing. Detecting FAT vs proprietary FS should be doable in the boot code
16:17:57Maxdamantuspresumably just formatting it wouldn't be particularly risky—even if the recovery mode can't reformat it, if you have access to the SD card as well, you could just dump/restore images to/from there.
16:18:00pamauryI think it is a bit early to try it
16:18:10pamaurythe loopback FAT image is only present on ZEN V unfortunately, and I still have no idea how the FS work (I haven't investigate it yet). I think we should first get some understand of this FS, to decide
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16:18:51gevaertsA lack of practical dual-boot isn't too dramatic I'd say
16:19:37pamauryby the way, I noticed something interesting: the ZEN and the ZEN X-Fi both encryption the bootloader with a non-zero key (contrary to the Fuze+) but use the same. I managed to dump it, even if it's useless in this case. Handling dual-boot on those will be painful anyway
16:19:48pamaurys/encryption/encrypt
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16:21:37pamaurybecause in this precise case, what I do is to overwrite the OF with our bootloader, so in practice the creative bootloader will load our bootloader which will load our code. Booting the OF would mean have read access to fw partition (which uses yet another FS) and load the OF (which uses a custom format of course, but we know it well now)
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16:29:32pamaurystill need to have a look at zen mozaic too
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16:50:35n1shmm cross binutils build fails in some texinfo stuff
16:51:55pamauryI really need to do something about emi ddr configuration on imx233, write an auto-configuration stub or something, but this looks complicated to say the least
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16:52:54gevaertsn1s: same as http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20130407#20:17:28 ?
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16:54:17n1sgevaerts: yes
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17:02:12*Maxdamantus wonders if rb is intended to include a network stack on the devices it'd be useful for.
17:02:32n1sgevaerts: hmm, so either use old texinfo or patch binutils
17:03:24Maxdamantuscould use my X-Fi as an ssh client.
17:03:38gevaertsMaxdamantus: if someone writes the code, sure
17:04:09gevaertsThere are some lightweight TCP stacks around that should be reasonably easy to integrate
17:05:25copper<Maxdamantus> could use my X-Fi as an ssh client.
17:05:26copperWhat?
17:05:31coppera sound card?
17:05:37MaxdamantusZen X-Fi*
17:06:13copperI see
17:06:16MaxdamantusThey should name their products differently -_-
17:08:14MaxdamantusX-Fi (sound card), Zen X-Fi (DAP with WiFi (in some models), boring button input), X-Fi 2 (DAP without WiFi (I think), touchscreen, different SD card slot, ..)
17:08:51*gevaerts would say that naming schemes used by various brands are not exactly on topic
17:08:52copperalso, FiiO made a new DAP: http://www.head-fi.org/t/663600/impression-fiio-x3-high-fi-low-price
17:08:56Maxdamantusmight've made sense to do something like Zen, Zen 2 (instead of Zen X-Fi)
17:09:09Maxdamantusbecause they seem fairly similar, other than the WiFi.
17:09:50Maxdamantusdunno what would be functionally different between a ZEN 8GB and a Zen X-Fi 8GB.
17:10:30Maxdamantusoh right .. the silly X-Fi bit.
17:10:53Maxdamantusdunno if anyone uses that
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17:24:26pamaury_Maxdamantus: I can ensure you there is no hardware difference between ZEN and ZEN X-Fi appart from wifi
17:24:29pamaury_the "X-Fi" bit is pure software
17:24:38pamaury_copper: omg, the frequency response is impressive
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17:31:19copperpamaury_: not really
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17:31:37copperthe FR of the Clip+ and iPods is ruler flat too
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17:32:21pamauryreally ? I seem to remember clip+ was good but not that flat
17:32:59copperhttp://outpost.fr/rmaa/Clip.htm
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17:33:16copperif you call a less than 0.5dB treble roll-off "not that flat"
17:33:21pamauryok, my mistake then
17:33:36copperhttp://outpost.fr/rmaa/iPod_Classic.htm
17:33:45copper^^ ruler flat
17:34:14pamauryindeed
17:34:21copperthe iPod Classic, aside from its 5.5Ω output impedance, is pretty much perfect
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17:35:09copper10h battery life on the FiiO, though :(
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17:38:24pamauryyeah, that's not a lot
17:40:19n1shere's the patch if anyone needs it btw http://pastie.org/7898911
17:40:38n1sto build binutils with the new texinfo ^
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17:51:18n1smeh, gcc has the same build issue
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17:56:50bluebrothern1s: sounds like some patch to add for rockboxdev.sh
17:57:48bluebrotherplus, might make sense to move those patches from the web into the main repository
17:57:51n1sbluebrother: maybe, i hope they just fix texinfo though
17:58:07bluebrotherthat's another option :)
17:58:26*bluebrother wonders if he'll run into the same issue on next distro update
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18:04:58n1si wonder why it's even building the docs, we pass a −−disable-docs switch to configure
18:05:28n1salso the documentation states that you shouldn't even need texinfo for releases
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21:50:14n1sah, gcc builds if i set MAKEINFO=missing when configuring but binutils isn't happy with that so the previous patch is required there
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22:07:26*bluebrother would really like to understand the "shit attitude" thing
22:10:19n1shmm?
22:10:35bluebrotherhttp://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,43072.msg219006.html#msg219006
22:10:47bluebrotherwe obviously have a "shit attitude" in the forums :o
22:12:57n1sah
22:15:15makoto:/
22:16:45n1sbluebrother: i guess that the rather terse initial answers could be interpreted as somewhat rude
22:17:45n1sand the poster probably doesn't know that that very question/request has been asked *many* times before :)
22:18:01bluebrotherwell, the answer was complete :)
22:19:42bluebrotherplus, I don't see a bad attitude in that. Yes, it's terse. One _could_ a terse answer as rude. But claiming about "shit attitude" in the forums?
22:19:49bluebrotherespecially as "I'm not the only one"?
22:20:05bluebrotheranyway. Maybe he'll explain ...
22:22:47bertrikbluebrother: Maybe you're just letting it get to you a bit too much.
22:23:33bertrikNot saying that you're not right, but you're probably not getting a sensible answer when asking Can you please explain the "shit attitude" here?
22:24:57bertrikMy way of coping is to usually just ignore people when they get offensive
22:25:24 Quit mirak (Read error: Operation timed out)
22:26:26 Quit SuperBrainAK (Quit: pbly gone to sleep (-.-)Zzz...)
22:29:06n1sbuilding the arm toolchain with the same changes also works fine, i don't have time to test the others today so i'll probably post this on gerrit later this week so people with the old texinfo can test it too
22:29:27n1ss/later this week/next week/
22:30:20 Quit n1s (Quit: Ex-Chat)
22:35:17bluebrotherbertrik: maybe. But sometimes I have the urge to ask the ugly questions :)
22:36:16bertrikbluebrother: ok, I understand ;)
22:41:52 Join mirak [0] (~mirak@static-176-182-49-232.ncc.abo.bbox.fr)
22:47:22 Join takeyourhatoff [0] (~takeyourh@31.185.222.106)
22:47:57takeyourhatoffHi, I have rockboxed my sansa clip + and if I put my ear up aganst the back, i can hear modem like noises during database updates
22:48:01 Join liar [0] (~liar@213162068192.public.t-mobile.at)
22:48:04takeyourhatoffhow in the hell does that happen?
22:49:20takeyourhatoffThis is with no headphones plugged in btw
22:49:31makotoi have a desktop computer that makes modem-like noises when the CPU is working
22:49:50makotonot that it particularly helps get to the bottom of why you say you can hear modem noises..
22:52:54AlexPbluebrother: Advice! :P
22:53:51bluebrotherhmm?
22:54:16AlexPbluebrother: advice, not advise :)
22:54:24AlexPwell, advise is the verb :)
22:54:26 Quit melmothX (Quit: #)
22:54:36bluebrotheraaah. That's why the browsers spell check didn't like the word :)
22:54:55bluebrotherI'll blame me not being a native speaker
22:55:19AlexPAnd if it weren't for my shotty attitude, that'd be perfectly acceptable :)
22:55:23AlexPdammit
22:55:29AlexPI can't even spell shitty
22:55:50bluebrothershotty sounds more dangerous :)
22:56:05AlexPIt does indeed :)
22:56:30*bluebrother hides before he gets shottied
22:56:57AlexPSurely you could just print your own form of retaliation these days?
22:57:51bluebrothernot sure. Maybe I need a 3D printer for that form?
22:58:06AlexPWorth I go I reckon
22:58:12AlexP*a
22:59:08AlexPbluebrother: You got your answer, you're in the clear!
22:59:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:00
23:00:16bluebrotheryay!
23:01:14bluebrotheroh my.
23:01:32bluebrotherso a terse answer is "shit attitude" these days? Good to know.
23:01:43AlexPyes
23:09:12 Quit Wardo (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:17:38 Quit krabador (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:25:20bluebrotherso let's see what more insight on shit attitude we'll get ...
23:37:58 Quit shamus (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:38:20 Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-195-49.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net)
23:50:03 Quit ender1 (Quit: You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.)
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