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#rockbox log for 2013-06-08

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16:32:39copperI just upgraded my Fuze+ to the latest dev build, and I also put my entire library on my new 64 GB microsdxc card (SanDisk, class 10)
16:32:57copperI don't know if it's Rockbox, or the new card, or both, but building the library went really fast
16:33:13copperit took maybe 2 minutes
16:33:19copperfor 6500 songs
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17:16:37bertrikpamaury: did you receive the clip zip?
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18:13:54 Join workflow [0] (~workflow@77-57-189-189.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:15:12workflowhey is there a way to tell rockbox utility another mount point than the proposed ones in the drop-down?
18:19:11 Join cereal_killer [0] (~bc16330a@www.haxx.se)
18:19:59cereal_killerworkflow: is your player not in the list of the drop-down menu
18:21:54workflowcereal_killer: thanks got it now.. but looks like it wont work, its a 2nd gen nano =(
18:24:29cereal_killerIpod Nano 2nd gen is unstable, but as far as I know there are no major problems. See here: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IPodNano2GPort
18:24:53gevaertsWell
18:24:58cereal_killerUSB is somehow buggy
18:25:18gevaertsI'd say the USB thing *is* a major problem, but it has an easy workaround of course (boot the OF or emergency disk mode)
18:26:35cereal_killergevaerts: I see
18:26:47workflowwell, its not fat formatted yet and i-m just reading the instructions on how to do it. but i cant find an mbr file for 2gen nano
18:26:47gevaertsIt's a matter of opinion of course :)
18:28:27funmanworkflow: which size is your nano?
18:29:32cereal_killerisn`t it sufficient to restore the iPod using iTunes on a PC?
18:29:45funmanwell you need Windows to do this
18:29:52gevaertscereal_killer: yes, but having a windows machine available isn't a given
18:30:04workflowfunman: its 8gb, and shucks i dont have no windows machine anywhere
18:30:04gevaertsThey're rare and exotic things for some people :)
18:31:04cereal_killergevaerts: true
18:31:12workflowbut thanks, thats good to know, so i dont try longer
18:31:48workflowthank you all and have a nice day
18:32:04funmanworkflow: funman/rockbox/mbr-nano2g-8g">http://people.videolan.org/~funman/rockbox/mbr-nano2g-8g
18:32:40workflowoh thanks for that will restore it from daddys win pc tomorrow and try again
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19:00
19:04:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:21:35pamaurybertrik: yes
19:21:39pamaurythanks
19:31:54copperIs it true that the Clip+ can only handle 32 GB cards? (and not 64 GB microsdxc ones)
19:32:03copperugh
19:32:07copperstupid question
19:32:11copperI can just try it myself :P
19:32:27 Join pretty_function [0] (~sigBART@123.252.215.247)
19:33:29Mirthe clip+ isnty sdxc capable
19:33:32AlexPcopper: AFAIK it should be fine if the partition is set correctl and it is formatted to fat32
19:33:33Mirdoesnt have the pins
19:33:41AlexPsdxc isn't really sdxc yet
19:33:49Miryes it is
19:33:53AlexPnope
19:34:08Mirthe specification says it has a 2nd row of pins
19:34:19AlexPLet me find it for you
19:34:21Mirits not like SD and SDHC
19:34:28AlexPThere are many people using them in Rockboxed players
19:34:38AlexPhttp://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,42759.msg217542.html#msg217542
19:34:40AlexPfor instance
19:35:36AlexPMir: Good explanation: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,27811.msg188132.html#msg188132
19:35:56copperI haven't used the Clip+ in MONTHS and it's battery is still showing an impressive 87% :)
19:36:14copperits*
19:37:05copperseems to be working fine
19:37:11AlexPyep :)
19:37:12copperthe correct size is reported
19:37:23copperI can play files, no problem
19:37:29AlexPyeah, it is fne
19:37:45AlexPI'm not aware of any SDXC 3.1 cards yet, only 3.0 which are fine
19:37:58MirAlexP: http://www.cdrinfo.com/images/uploaded/SD_HC.jpg
19:38:10AlexPyes, in spec 3.1
19:38:13Mirsdxc has a 2nd row of pins
19:38:18AlexPDid you notice copper's working?
19:38:29Mircool
19:38:30Mir:)
19:38:31AlexPOr read the links I provided
19:38:41copperI tried files at the beginning of the card, and files past the 32 GB mark
19:38:44copperall play fine
19:38:48Mirthis gives me hope i can get a 64gb and put it in my E200
19:38:50Mir:D
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19:38:55AlexPyes, it should work
19:38:59AlexP(AFAIK)
19:39:07AlexPThere may always be some other issues
19:39:10saratoga_i think the new design is backwards compatible
19:39:22saratoga_IIRC the older pins are used if the hardware doesn't support the new ones
19:40:21AlexPEven better :)
19:40:22Mirhttp://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=28669.0
19:40:26saratoga_low power devices probably dont want to use the high power interface anyway
19:40:33saratoga_high power/speed
19:42:58copperso apparently the speed is not due to some update on Rockbox
19:43:00copperit's the card
19:43:18coppersince my Clip+ is running an old(ish) version
19:43:27copperdamn, it feels good
19:43:33copperawesome purchase
19:44:07Mircool
19:44:36copperI'm not even sure my old Transcend card wasn't just a chinese knock-off
19:44:47copperI did buy it in some shady chinese store :O
19:44:53Mirtrancend isnt a chineese knockoff
19:44:57Mirit IS chinnese
19:44:59Mir:D
19:45:13copperI'm sure the chinese make knock-offs of their own products!
19:45:31Mirtrue
19:45:40copperanyway, off-topic
19:46:13copperthe important information being, my 64 GB SanDisk microsdxc card works fine with both the Clip+ and the Fuze+ (Rockboxed)
19:46:31Miri hate the fuze +
19:46:40copperlove it
19:46:47Mirthe controls are crud and its slugish and laggy
19:46:52coppernot with Rockbox
19:46:59Miraww
19:46:59copperthe OF is unusable
19:47:07Mirnever got that far with mine
19:47:08copperbut with Rockbox, it's pretty awesome, IMO
19:47:29Miri ended up shipping mine to florida
19:47:32copperIMO it beats both my Clip+ and my iPod Classic
19:47:40Mir:o
19:48:02Miri still prefer my E200 only because of the battery life
19:49:20copperMy Fuze+ lasts 32 hours
19:49:42coppersame as my iPod Classic
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19:50:54Mirmy e2600 last 27 hours on flac files
19:50:59Mirerr
19:51:01coppermusepack here
19:51:06Mirsubtract a 0 there
19:51:16coppere260?
19:51:20Miryup
19:51:26MirBUT
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19:51:28copperisn't that an older model?
19:51:42copperolder than the Clip+?
19:51:43dewlapi love the ipod lassic running rockbox
19:51:44Mirif i play a SPC file it goes down to an hour and a half
19:51:48Miryes
19:51:50dewlapi haven't touched this ipod in over a year
19:51:52Mirolder than the clip
19:51:54dewlap=D
19:52:21Mire200 == fuze c200 == clip
19:52:29Mirkinda
19:52:33Mir:D
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20:06:05saratoga_bluebrother: how hard would it be to have rbutil check if X:\windows exists on the install directory and warn the user that they're doing something dumb
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20:24:14coppersaratoga_: why would they choose a Windows mount?
20:24:29copperdo people actually do that?
20:24:50saratoga_yes
20:25:12copper_why_?
20:25:34gevaertsBecause they don't undrestand the question in some way
20:26:06copperwhat question?
20:26:20gevaerts"What's the mountpoint?"
20:26:33coppermountpoint??
20:26:45gevaertsExactly :)
20:26:46copperrbutil is supposed to be installed on the Linux fs
20:26:56copperI mean, it's just another app
20:27:30gevaertsI believe the most common misconception is that people think it's asking where rockbox utility is installed instead of where rockbox needs to be installed
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21:56:53bluebrotherwell, the configutation dialog says "Select your device in the filesystem"
21:57:19bluebrotheron Windows you can only choose drive letters, on Linux only paths that are actual mountpoints
21:57:58 Quit lebellium (Read error: No buffer space available)
21:58:40coppermaybe it would be easier if Rockbox formatted the device and systematically gave it the same lable / id
21:58:40copperlabel
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22:00:15saratoga_i assume its people not reading it
22:00:28gevaertscopper: how does that change anything at all?
22:00:28gevaerts*what* will you format?
22:00:29saratoga_alternatively make the default be nothing, so they have to select something
22:00:34copperugh
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22:00:42copperwell, THAT was stupid…
22:00:51coppergevaerts: never mind
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22:01:48copperor
22:01:52bluebrothergnah.
22:01:52 Join Marex_ [0] (~Marex@195.140.253.167)
22:02:17bluebrotherclient lost connection :(
22:02:17copperthe installer could sniff the directory trees of every device, and detect paths that it knows about
22:02:17 Quit Unhelpful (Ping timeout: 267 seconds)
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22:02:17copperi.e. the directory trees of the original firmwares
22:02:35bluebrotherit does. During autodetection.
22:02:40copperhmm
22:02:47copperso what's the problem?
22:02:47 Join Unhelpful [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/Unhelpful)
22:03:03bluebrotherthe problem is that autodetection needs to get reworked. I've started working on that but it's not finished
22:03:27bluebrotherthe problem is that users seem to not read what it displays
22:03:49copperlol
22:03:49bluebrotherand we don't do sanity checks afterwards.
22:03:49gevaertsAlso that some people just know "better
22:03:49gevaerts"
22:04:13gevaerts"Autodetect is wrong. I *know* it's a v2."
22:04:13bluebrotheryes, and that. Some people know that they have an Ipod 2G and wonder why it's not working on a Nano 2G
22:04:28gevaerts"Why doesn't it boot?"
22:04:28bluebrother"because"
22:04:28saratoga_in the meantime, just checking for a windows folder would get 95% of users mistakes
22:04:29copperthat much?
22:04:29copperwtf?
22:04:31bluebrotheranyway, I agree that adding some more sanity checks would be a good thing
22:04:34gevaertsAs long as it's just a warning, yes
22:04:38bluebrotherit's just work that needs to be done :)
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22:05:06gevaertsDon't tell me I can't put a directory named "windows" on my DAP, or I'll do just that! ;)
22:05:23saratoga_"do you really want to install rockbox to your windows directory instead of your mp3 player yes/no?"
22:05:32bluebrotherno, that needs to be more intelligent.
22:05:46 Join melmothX_ [0] (~melmoth@93-137-141-1.adsl.net.t-com.hr)
22:05:55bluebrotherwe need to check things like %SYSTEMDRIVE% on Windows
22:06:53bluebrother(if that's the environment variable, not sure right now)
22:07:05*gevaerts nods
22:07:05 Join onder`_ [0] (~onder@24.244.89.228)
22:07:39bluebrotherand %PROGRAMFILES%. And %WINDIR%.
22:07:39bluebrotheror whatever exactly the variable names were :)
22:07:39copperbluebrother: do Wine dirs count?
22:07:39bluebrothercopper: you're not supposed to run Rockbox Utility on Wine
22:07:39DBUGEnqueued KICK bluebrother
22:07:39bluebrotherif you do it' your fault
22:07:39gevaertsPeople still do though
22:07:42copperyou're not supposed to install it on a Windows partition either!:
22:07:43bluebrotherwell, I've added a warning like years ago.
22:07:43bluebrotherwhen it seems to be running on Wine
22:07:46bluebrotherthat _should_ work
22:07:51bluebrotherthough there was a report of someone having that warning even on a normal Windows machine
22:07:57gevaertsBut then of course the wine people don't want you to be able to actually spot the difference
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22:13:20bluebrotherthere's no official way to detect wine (that I'm aware of), but you can check for a specific Wine registry key
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22:13:20bluebrotherunless the Wine guys changed that of course :)
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22:13:20copperbluebrother: just check for a directory named "drive_c", I guess
22:13:20coppermost likely in the user's home directory
22:13:20bluebrotherand where should that live? When running in Wine I don't see that :)
22:13:20copper?
22:13:26bluebrotherWine tries to hide that it's Wine ...
22:13:26copper"${HOME}/something/drive_c"
22:13:28bluebrotherok. So you use a Windows binary, run it in Wine and expect to access $HOME?
22:13:28copperand a "dosdevices" directory in the same directory
22:13:57CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
22:13:57*bluebrother sighs
22:13:57AlexPIt might show up somewhere down Z: or something where you can access ~ from in wine?
22:13:57bluebrotheryes, I can check those. From a program that is running natively on the Linux box.
22:13:57AlexPUnless copper is suggesting that the linux version shouldn't run on linux if you have wine installed :)
22:13:57 Join dv_ [0] (~quassel@chello080108009040.14.11.vie.surfer.at)
22:13:57bluebrotherwow, Wine has quite a bunch of dependencies these days ...
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22:13:57AlexPyeah, Z: resolves to / on my system
22:14:01AlexPso you presumably could check for linux dirs in z:
22:14:01 Quit saratoga_ (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
22:14:06AlexPIf that is a defualt install
22:14:13bluebrotherwhich means I now need to resolve $HOME ...
22:14:29*bluebrother waits for the Wine packages to download
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22:14:35gevaertsI don't remember any recent wine-related issues, so I think there's nothing to do really
22:14:36AlexP(and if I haven't changed the mapping and forgotten)
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22:15:07gevaertsThe old registry-based check still seems to be good enough, those false positives are reasonably rare
22:15:11bluebrotherwtf is going on with the network (and the bot)?
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22:17:01bluebrotherok, just tried. Detects current Wine on my system just fine.
22:17:55bluebrotherso I don't see a need to change anything here.
22:18:01gevaertsbluebrother: you should try if it actually *works*. Maybe the ckeck isn't needed any more :)
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22:22:18bluebrothergevaerts: nah. I won't bet on all those direct device accesses the patchers do to work
22:22:30bluebrotherplus, why are we providing Linux binaries?
22:22:59gevaertsFor those annoying people who think wine is the wrong solution :)
22:23:03AlexPCos linux on the desktop is this year!
22:23:15AlexPAnd that means not having to compile :)
22:23:58bluebrotherwe have binaries. You don't need to compile those :)
22:24:33AlexPI'm confused, by "plus, why are we providing Linux binaries?" I thought you were suggesting we shouldn't
22:25:13bluebrotheryes, but that's a different story :)
22:25:23bluebrotheruntil now we do
22:25:32AlexPBut I guess you meant why are people trying to use wine when we provide native binaries
22:25:39copperer
22:25:39bluebrotheryes.
22:25:49AlexPWhich does make more sense :)
22:25:53copperdoesn't the OF always come with the same partition label?
22:26:18AlexPWhich OF?
22:26:21copperany OF
22:26:29bluebrotherno
22:26:36bluebrotherplus, users can change it
22:26:43AlexPAlso, why?
22:26:50copperwhy?
22:26:57bluebrotherit's simply way to unreliable
22:27:04bluebrotherway too many false positives
22:27:07copperbecause if they always had the same label, it would be easy to identify
22:27:16AlexPI'm wondering what it would help with, I must have missed the start
22:27:28bluebrotherthen gevaerts will label his root partition "Sansa e260" or something like that
22:27:40copperscrew him? ;)
22:27:49bluebrothererr ... no
22:28:03AlexPwell, if it were only gevaerts then yes :)
22:28:12AlexPBut if it might be others too, then no :)
22:28:26copperanyway
22:28:30gevaertsFilesystem labels are *meant* to be changed
22:28:39gevaertsAnd partition labels don't exist :)
22:28:42bluebrotherthe problem is: we have players we cannot detect the mountpoint. Period.
22:28:43copperthe only sane way in my opinion is to sniff directory trees, and that's being worked on
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22:29:40coppergevaerts: yes, my bad
22:29:40copperfilesystem label
22:29:40bluebrotherso the best thing we can do is to filter out everything that is definitely not the player and leave the rest to the user
22:29:44bluebrothercopper: ok, so we "sniff". What do you find on e.g. a h100 that identifies it?
22:29:56copperI don't know what you're talking about, sorry
22:30:00bluebrother(hint: nothing)
22:30:03AlexPThe iriver H100
22:30:21copperI guess you should do the best you can
22:30:23AlexPThe firmware is in flash, the drive is just normal drive
22:30:29coppersomething is better than nothing
22:30:39bluebrothersame for M5 / X5 IIRC
22:30:52AlexPAnd that's what we do, detect where possible
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22:31:29AlexPThe only extra option is to exclude where possible
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22:31:36bluebrotherthe only thing we don't do (yet) is to not allow the user to select an arbitrary mountpoint
22:31:47coppergood night
22:31:47bluebrotherthe dropdown list is already filtered to remove all filesystems that are incompatible.
22:31:57bluebrotherthough IIRC that's not in 1.3.1 IIRC.
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22:33:24bluebrotherhmm, though thinking about it that should filter out all Windows system drives anyway.
22:33:36bluebrothersince that's usually NTFS.
22:34:04AlexPbluebrother: can you select things other than the drop down list offers by typing in it?
22:35:07bluebrotherAlexP: no, only if you build it as debug binary.
22:35:18bluebrother(since it's quite useful for debugging)
22:35:22AlexPI wonder how people manage it then
22:35:38bluebrotherwell, if the dropdown list shows C: as valid entry?
22:36:06bluebrotherin debug builds you can edit the selected dropdown item
22:36:15AlexPYeah, I'm just a little surprised how many people have that as non-NTFS
22:36:25AlexPalthough I suppose it is tiny numbers actually
22:36:30gevaerts"IIRC that's not in 1.3.1"
22:36:39AlexPah, missed that
22:36:44AlexPfair enough then :)
22:37:00gevaertsSo we're likely discussing a solved problem anyway :)
22:37:19AlexPExcellent, let's discuss it more!
22:37:27bluebrotheryeah, mountpoint filtering has been added on 1st April
22:38:01bluebrotherneed to check the filesystem type string for HFS+ on Windows though.
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