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#rockbox log for 2013-06-09

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06:47:51saratogawhat else is needed to support SDXC besides exFAT?
06:48:05saratogalibexfat seems increasingly stable and quite cleanly implemented (and not very complex)
06:48:27saratogawe could probably include it without too much effort
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07:09:00Mirisnt it propriatry?
07:09:33Miri thought microsoft was quite anal about there being no linux support for exFAT
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07:13:11saratogaits reverse engineered i assume
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09:04:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:26:59coppersaratoga: does Rockbox support files larger than 2 and 4 GB already?
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10:05:06[Saint]copper: Rockbox /might/, but, FAT doesn't...so, I guess...no?
10:05:09[Saint]re: 4GB
10:07:40[Saint]I am not aware of any such limitation with 2GB files. But its possible. Lots of things happen I'm not aware of.
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10:39:07copper[Saint]: FAT32 no, but exFAT yes, which is what saratoga inquired about
10:39:16copper04:47:51 UTC <saratoga> what else is needed to support SDXC besides exFAT?
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10:44:45[Saint]The question confuses me then. "Does Rockbox support X and Y, if <system_that_isn't_in_place_was_in_place>?"...? Anyhoo...I doubt Rockbox itself cares about file limits, it may, but I doubt it. If it does, it is probably only due to the fact that we only ever expect the filesystem to be FAT.
10:57:24bluebrotherI don't think the point of supporting exFAT is files larger than 2GiB
10:57:43bluebrotherbut rather that SDXC defines exFAT at filesystem to be used
10:58:02bluebrotherand having users to reformat their cards is yet another cause for confusion / errors
10:58:10bluebrothers/having/requiring/
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11:00:15copperyes but if you support exFAT, users will expect support for what exFAT supports
11:00:27bluebrotherwell, yes and no
11:00:48bluebrotheronce we support exFAT (if that is about to happen at all) we can see if there are problems with files that size
11:01:11bluebrotherplus, you can easily put files that large on the device. Rockbox might not able to play them, but that's a different story
11:01:28bluebrotherand seriously, what music files are >2GiB?
11:01:52copperbluebrother: very long 24/96/6ch recordings, I guess
11:02:05copperwhich ARE supported
11:02:12copperthe audio specs I mean
11:02:36bluebrotherand how much people are actually about to use that?
11:02:40copperthere are even 24/192 recordings!
11:02:48copperbluebrother: audiophiles
11:02:59copperwho get all of their music from HDtracks
11:03:07bluebrotherthose are for professional recording, and guys doing that are likely to use other equipment anyway
11:03:15copperwhat?
11:03:33copperwhat is for "professional recording"?
11:03:36bluebrotherplus, _if_ it turns out that there are bugs with files that large we can fix them when they show up
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11:04:26bluebrotherrecording that isn't consumer
11:04:52copperwho said anything about recording anything?
11:05:18bluebrotherit's not about _doing_ the recording, it's about _handling_ it.
11:05:32copperaudiophiles buy high res albums from https://www.hdtracks.com/ http://www.qobuz.com/
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11:05:45copperthose aren't uncommon at all
11:05:46bluebrotherit simply makes no sense to play back a file 24/192 on a device that cannot go further than 16/48
11:05:52KohlrabiTrue
11:05:53copperno kidding
11:06:01copperbut they don't know that
11:06:04bluebrotherand audiophiles use crappy devices like the Ipods?
11:06:07copperyes
11:06:08copperabsolutely
11:06:21copperthough I don't know what's "crappy" about iPods
11:06:22Kohlrabitechnically the iPod isn't bad
11:06:24Kohlrabijust the OS sucks
11:06:35Kohlrabijust look at the EQ...
11:07:05copperalso, rockbox doesn't do 48kHz
11:07:08copperit resamples to 44.1
11:07:12Kohlrabicopper: didn't you report that the EQ just applies positive gain?
11:07:19Kohlrabion iPods?
11:07:20bluebrotherwell, compared to the H100 my Mini's sound quality is bad. That bad that even I can hear it
11:07:21coppersome presets yes
11:07:30bluebrothercopper: I know it resamples ...
11:07:38bluebrotherbut IIRC the hardware _could_ do 48
11:07:48copperbluebrother: the iPod Classic is audibly transparent
11:07:58copperanyway, off topic
11:08:05copperer
11:08:13bluebrotherdefine "audibly transparent"
11:08:13coppersaratoga's question was really simple
11:08:40copperbluebrother: http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Transparency
11:08:41bluebrotherto an audiophile that wants 24/192 a device that cannot output that cannot be "transparent"
11:08:54KohlrabiThat's not what transparent means
11:10:14bluebrotherso, you're basically saying one uses an extremely high resolution, drop data from it and it's still transparent. Why use that high resolution in the first place anyway (unless you're planning to do postprocessing, which you don't do on that kind of device)?
11:10:26copperbecause they're clueless
11:10:38copperanyway
11:10:40bluebrotherthat's not our problem
11:10:42copperthat was not the point
11:10:49copperthe point was, large files
11:10:53bluebrotherno
11:10:59bluebrotherthe point was filesystem support
11:11:07coppersigh
11:11:35copper09:00:15 UTC <copper> yes but if you support exFAT, users will expect support for what exFAT supports
11:11:48copperthat's all I'm gonna say
11:11:55copperif you don't care, then fine
11:11:59bluebrotherso what?
11:12:05bluebrotherit supports storing files ...
11:12:07copperI was just expanding on saratoga's question about exFAT support
11:12:22copperwhich I suspect was the point of his question
11:12:31coppermaybe I was wrong
11:12:57copperbrb
11:13:23[Saint]from eariler, about nasty audiophile uber-quality audio...putting that on a Rockboxed device is a fail anyway, since it all gets downsampled, so I'm not sure we need to care too much there ;)
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11:23:11Kohlrabi640k is enough for everyone
11:23:40copperconvenience
11:23:52copperbeing able to play the files without having to convert them first
11:23:54copperI don't know
11:24:08coppermaybe also very long live recordings
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16:57:05snepperhi I want to ask about the player Sansa Clip+
16:57:47kugelweeh, TALK_PARTIAL_LOAD is a huge memory waste
16:57:58snepperI need dump the image from the player
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16:59:12fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision 280a0eb, 217 builds, 20 clients.
16:59:36bluebrothersnepper: why do you need to do that?
17:00
17:00:29snepperformatted in repair mode
17:00:55kugelbluebrother: windows doesnt know /dev/null, but you can rediret to NUL
17:05:13bluebrotherkugel: yes. But I don't want to have to handle Windows and non-Windows separately.
17:05:27bluebrotherplus, the redirect to /dev/null is unnecessary in that place.
17:05:33snepperI'm in ubuntu, deleted all of the parttion and recorded with OF-image 0 sector, he now writes a bad disc format to format
17:05:48bluebrotherat least I don't see any change in output on the setups I've tested
17:06:18kugeljust saying in case you didnt know :)
17:06:24bluebrotherI do :)
17:06:44fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Build round completed after 452 seconds.
17:06:45fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Revision 280a0eb result: All green
17:07:46snepperhttp://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaAMSUnbrick
17:08:39snepperdid what is written here, but formatted in the windows in front of this
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17:10:15*bluebrother can't help with that (unbrick thing)
17:17:27bluebrotherpamaury: any idea about snepper's problem?
17:17:58bluebrother(or who's been involved with the clip+ port? bertrik?)
17:18:10snepperI need dump the image from the player Sansa Clip+
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17:23:15bluebrothersnepper: thinking about it ... if the image is broken, why do you want to dump it?
17:23:49bluebrotherthe OF files available at Sandisk contain a bin file. Which, from my understanding, should be exactly the image file.
17:24:16gevaertsbluebrother: IIRC there is some stuff that's *not* in there
17:24:21bluebrotherthough having this confirmed by someone more familiar with the device is probably a good idea :)
17:24:27gevaertsSo you'd need a dump from a working device
17:24:31bluebrotheroh.
17:24:36bluebrotherok.
17:25:02bluebrothermaybe the wiki page should mention how to get the OF image then :)
17:25:05gevaertsHowever, I'm not sure if anyone's ever recovered from formatting the recovery device...
17:25:27*gevaerts hasn't ever done AMS recovery himself
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17:26:11snepperYou can also dump the image from the player to your hard disk by using e.g.:
17:26:27snepperdd if=/dev/sde of=orig_image.bin bs=512 count=$((0xF000)) (count is 0x5000 for Clipv1/C200v2/M200v4, 0xf000 for others)
17:27:07bluebrotherwell, I guess that requires the player to be in working condition
17:27:29bluebrotherif not, why aren't you doing it then? ;-)
17:28:43snepperof course, that page will be sent here if the problem
17:29:50bluebrotheranyway, I can't really help so I'll stop the guessing
17:32:49snepperI created the first part of the 17mb leaving empty-sectors, the rest formatted in fat 32 and recorded to the top of OF-image memory, but it did not help
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17:36:17sneppersomebody help!
17:36:49bluebrothersnepper: patience. Most people are in weekend and the middle of sunday
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17:38:02sneppermay be a question tomorrow
17:38:04bluebrothermost developers are in the european timezone. Try in the evening (or better simply wait)
17:38:33snepperok
17:39:09fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision 58b4e71, 217 builds, 20 clients.
17:43:28n1shmm, the gcc 4.6 changelog mentions a rewrite of the code for generating load and store multiple on arm, i wonder if a compiler upgrade might be beneficial for us
17:44:35n1sandroid uses its own toolchain, right?
17:45:08kugelyea, but we use the 4.4.x version of it
17:45:32fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Build round completed after 383 seconds.
17:45:33fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Revision 58b4e71 result: All green
17:45:33fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision 836cf14, 217 builds, 20 clients.
17:45:58n1skugel: good so changing the arm-eabi toolchain wont affect android
17:46:23n1safaiu the ldm/stm stuff is actually most important for the armv4
17:50:45fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Build round completed after 312 seconds.
17:50:45fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Revision 836cf14 result: All green
17:54:58n1smaybe i'll test a newer compiler if i'm bored. i hope the patches we use still apply
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19:52:59fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Revision 11280e2 result: All green
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19:53:43bluebrotherhmm. We have some broken builds but the server announces all green :o
19:53:53bluebrotherZagor (logs): can you give that a look?
19:54:11bluebrotherkugel: 58b4e71 broke some targets
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19:59:11fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Revision 67e1de7 result: All green
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21:01:52fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision 770fadd, 217 builds, 21 clients.
21:07:28fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Build round completed after 336 seconds.
21:07:29fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Revision 770fadd result: All green
21:09:12fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision 4263f67, 217 builds, 21 clients.
21:09:28gevaertsSome nice flag building there :)
21:10:33bertrikwe should reward style points for that
21:13:39fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Build round completed after 267 seconds.
21:13:39fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Revision 4263f67 result: All green
21:32:06bluebrotherhmm. The buildmaster always announcing all green is somewhat annoying / confusing
21:32:20*bluebrother considers blocking those messages until the result is actually correct
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21:44:01fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision 575cb63, 217 builds, 21 clients.
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21:48:52fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Revision 575cb63 result: All green
21:50:39kugelsomeone with h100/h300 should look at g#433 to g#435
21:50:42fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #433 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/433 : 3optimize Cypress chip power supply for iriver h100 series by Dmitry Gamza (changes/33/433/1)
21:51:34kugelgerrit is filling up :\
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22:03:59 Quit y4n (Quit: Today is the perfect day for a perfect day.)
22:08:40 Quit akaWolf (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
22:39:31n1skugel: i have a h300 but i don't understand 434 and i don't think i'd be able to hear any sound quality improvement unless i'ts _really big_ so i'm not much ues reviewing 435
22:40:26n1simo it's nice if patches have a clear description of why the change is a good idea
22:51:14saratogaIMO patches that change audio output or battery life should have RMAA plots or battery bench results
22:51:24saratogaparticularly for stable ports
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22:51:53n1syeah
22:57:06saratogakugel: FWIW, we have the new log to ram system in all our builds now, so if you're reworking how buflib allocates memory, putting WARNFs in any error conditions might not be a bad idea
22:57:06saratogamight help people trouble shoot
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23:05:40saratogan1s: yes, I think that was the original idea
23:10:55n1ssaratoga: about the base64 jpeg?
23:11:08 Join mrtux_ [0] (~mrtux@unaffiliated/mrtux)
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23:11:10saratogahttp://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20100529#09:51:53
23:11:12saratogayeah
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23:15:50n1sthanks, i was thinking of a simple pass over the data to just decode it from base64, a bit less efficient but perhaps easier to write. Not that i'll do it :)
23:17:29saratogaparsing ogg is so weird i don't want to think about it
23:18:01EpicanisOh, come on, metadata_block_picture is perfectly intuitive, isn't it? :-)
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