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#rockbox log for 2013-07-08

00:00:03dfktmusiklover, you can check the form factor of supported players here: http://build.rockbox.org/
00:00:34musikloveroh yes, thankx
00:00:42dfktas for mass storage, i'm not sure about various ipods, but most others should be UMS indeed
00:01:09dfktand rockbox does have file/folder browsing, you don't need to use tags/database stuff
00:01:15musiklovercould you recommend a very good device?
00:01:36dfktpersonally i love the sansa clip+
00:01:58dfktgreat form factor, great audio quality, and expandable with sd cards
00:02:33dfktthe clip zip is the same, with a (shabby, low-res) color screen
00:02:44musikloverdfkt: great, i will test this device.
00:03:26dfktit costs almost nothing, which is a bonus for testing ;)
00:05:16musiklovercan you find your songs with this display in size of a poststamp?
00:05:52dfktheh, yeah i can - http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=1538&target=sansaclipplus
00:05:58musikloverdfkt: can you brose on a file/folder basis?
00:06:00copperI don't get the Clip+ fever
00:06:34musikloverdfkt: and it plays flac?
00:06:49musiklovercopper: could you recommend a device for me?
00:06:50dfktrockbox supports flac, sure
00:07:33dfktwhat don't you like about the clip, copper?
00:07:35coppermusiklover: any Rockbox device qualifies
00:07:38lebelliumcopper: we don't get the Fuze+ fever :P
00:07:48funmankugel: quick pong
00:08:07copperdfkt: too damn small, too damn SMALL, CPU noise, poor battery life
00:08:15copperalso, too damn small
00:08:22dfktone man's too small is another man's just right ;)
00:08:28dfktno noise with my phones
00:09:05dfkteven with ultra-sensitive ones like the ue11
00:09:07musikloverwhat is about e200?
00:09:21kugelfunman: we hit a stkov for the usb thread on clipzip
00:09:30dfktthe e200 has been discontinued years ago... if you find one, it should be nice
00:09:45*kugel still has a e200
00:09:54lebelliumI bought mine on ebay.de in 2012.
00:10:00dfktsure had the best build quality of the sansas, imo
00:10:12dfktbut the wheel, meh
00:10:22funmankugel: on insert? is it related to skins?
00:10:27coppermainly, I like to have all of my music collection on my DAP, and the Clip+ is a really poor choice for browsing through it
00:11:10copperthe screen is really tiny, and the buttons don't allow for fast and precise scrolling
00:11:27copperthe Clip+ is a DAP for jogging and working out
00:11:36funmanand playing doom
00:11:39musiklovercan the scandisk devices with rockbox switched off/powered off in a kind of hibernation mode? If waken up again they continue to play exactly where they stopped before? Would be a nice feature for long audiobooks
00:11:45copperand even then I don't use it for that
00:12:06kugelfunman: nobody knows where stkovs happen exactly but it appears so
00:12:51coppermy problem is that the Clip+ gets recommended for pretty much all situations
00:12:55funmani use mine without problems, so not sure how i can reproduce it
00:13:05copperwithout any regards for any given constraints
00:13:22dfktcopper, he asked me what player i like... and that i answered ;)
00:13:29copperthe recent HA thread is a satire of that
00:13:34dfktseems you got some deeper seated hate against the thing ;)
00:14:33kugelfunman: lebellium had a "stkov usb" message earlier today
00:14:52copperI didn't hate the Clip+ until I read too many recommendations
00:15:21copperthey give the wrong impression
00:15:25copperlike it's the perfect DAP
00:15:33funmanlebellium: does it depend on the theme you use?
00:15:39copperit is very, very far from being perfect
00:16:31lebelliumcopper: I didn't hate the Fuze+ until I read pamaury and you talking about the touchpad :P
00:16:55copperwhich is why I don't blindly recommend it to bloody everyone
00:17:04coppercontrary to a lot of people, with the Clip+
00:17:23coppereven in situations where recommending it is completely ridiculous
00:17:27lebelliumfunman: I can't reproduce it now, it seems to be fixed by one of the numerous kugel's patchs today. But I only tried it with my own theme.
00:18:03copperanyway
00:18:05kugellebellium: the last patch doubled the stack size so yea you shouldnt be able to reproduce it now
00:18:18coppermusiklover's criteria match just about any Rockboxed device
00:19:29coppermusiklover: check out the list of supported devices on the website, then google for product pages and forum talk about devices that you might be interested in
00:20:18copperI'd start with the "stable" ports, on to "unstable", and finally "unusable" (some of which are actually usable)
00:21:00coppergot any criteria that are more specific to your needs?
00:24:53musikloverthank you
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00:32:00musikloveris everything better in fuze+ compared to fuze classic or fuze v2?
00:32:13coppermost people would say worse
00:32:32copperthey hate the touchpad
00:32:55funmankugel: ah your patches are not committed?
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00:33:07*kugel triggered a undef instruction with screendump
00:33:14funmankugel: it's been a long time but i can try to have a look this week
00:33:14kugelfunman: no
00:34:32funmando you have a flyspray # yet?
00:37:04musikloverwhat do you think about cowon d2?
00:38:01kugelFS #12714 seems to be related
00:38:52kugelfunman: what happened about your rodata patch?
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00:44:54musikloverhave a nice day!
00:44:57musikloverg'n8
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00:55:51kugelfunman: any idea how undefined instruction at 0x0000003C could occur so reproducably?
00:56:46kugelthere's no code at this address, yet some bug manages to jump that very address
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01:09:19kugelthere seems to be something that's heavy on the usb thread stack, but not always
01:09:50kugelI can only reproduce FS #12714 using screendump but not normal connection
01:11:35kugeland not anymore with increased stack size
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02:36:37[Saint]kugel: USB insertion with ahny theme on N2G gives me a stkov_nand panic with a bullshit address.
02:36:49[Saint]Sadly.
02:37:09[Saint][7] gave me a few hints to try there, but I haven't had a chance yet.
02:37:31[Saint]Hilariously, the last time I tried it, I couldn't get it to panic *at all* though :-S
02:37:36[Saint]It just did...nbothing.
02:38:13[Saint]*last time I tried it before this morning (a couple of days ago)
02:47:43[Saint]JdGordon: Just a simply yes/no question, when you get the time - kugel made me aware of something the code indicates should happen, but doesn't - is the .sbs and userfont supposed to be unloaded at USB insertion?
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02:49:39JdGordonyes
02:49:46JdGordonall fonts are unloaded at usb insert
02:50:17[Saint]Something is a sick puppy, then. :-S
02:50:29JdGordonthey arent?
02:50:42JdGordonI think they wont if they do actually fit in ram
02:51:00[Saint]Aha. I didn't catch that when I was looking, but it doesn't surprise me.
02:51:10[Saint]Userfont definitely isn't getting unloaded.
02:51:23[Saint]It seems as though the .sbs should _also_ be unloaded. It isn't.
02:52:05[Saint]I'll be nosey again this afternoon. I was right tired last night.
02:53:08JdGordonhttp://git.rockbox.org/?p=rockbox.git;a=blob;f=apps/gui/usb_screen.c;h=a02516fefb667875708ece9e9904f538a80c220b;hb=HEAD line 263ish
02:53:42JdGordonbut yeah, that might not be 100% correct
02:54:15[Saint]yes, kugel pointed me there, too. It seems like skin_unload_all() should be doing literally just that.
02:54:40[Saint]but the .sbs manages to survive.
02:55:59JdGordonremind me tonight, i might be able to have a look
03:00
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06:04:40ProfWhoanyone still here?
06:05:13[Saint]Many people.
06:05:24[Saint]Just ask your question. If some one can assist you, they will.
06:05:52ProfWhocould use some help with firmware hacking of a iriver cover story. converting/extracting a
06:05:52ProfWhoEB05.HEX file
06:06:52ProfWhosorry, new to the current irc client program, need to relearn that 2
06:08:31[Saint]This isn't really the right place for this, I'm afraid. This channel is for Rockbox development/support specifically.
06:09:02ProfWhothe HEX file is a zip file, but none of the known archive programs work
06:09:21ProfWhoi know, but was hoping anyone here could help me out
06:12:52ProfWhosince the iriver cover story is almost similar to the iriver mp3 players, was hoping to get some inside knowledge here
06:14:30[Saint]Apart from the "iriver" branding, there isn't much similarity at all, as I understand it.
06:15:11[Saint]And unless the intention is to port Rockbox to this device, this isn't the right place for this conversation. Perhaps you would have better luck in a forum specific to the device, if one exists.
06:19:14ProfWhoRockbox is a bootloader right?
06:19:14ProfWhoso, maybe, if you can help me out here with getting the Hex file extracted, it's possible to see if it's possible to use Rockbox
06:19:36[Saint]Rockbox is not a bootloader. No.
06:19:43[Saint]Rockbox is a full firmware replacement.
06:20:07[Saint]If your intention is to port Rockbox to this device, you would want to start here: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/NewPort
06:20:43[Saint](paying specific attention to "Am I up to the task?" and "Who will help you?")
06:21:34[Saint]Though, you would have a LOT of work on your hands.
06:22:06[Saint]I am not aware of any existing port that uses the i.MX508, and none of our targets use an e-ink display.
06:25:04ProfWhoup for the task, yes. help me, anyone who wants to.it's possible to flash the device, but need to know the firmware make-up. know for a fact it's Linux. but the *.hex file is compressed and can't find a way to decompress it. have tried every known archive program.
06:25:05ProfWhoknow it's possible to extract it, but have forgotten how and can't find any information online
06:27:03[Saint]This isn't meant to offend, but, if extracting the original firmware prooves problematic, you might want to reconsider the "Am I up for the task?" question.
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06:34:14saratogaid say most embedded device firmware hacking is on topic if it could potientially be useful to us
06:35:57[Saint]My rule of thumb is "its on-topic if the intention is to port to a new device"
06:36:25[Saint]If its just general "help me do X", then, a forum/community specific to the device is likely the better place.
06:37:20 Quit ProfWho (Remote host closed the connection)
06:37:36[Saint]This in particular would be a non-trivial port, too. Eink display. :-S
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07:11:25funmankugel: about rodata, i could never get it to work
07:12:20funmankugel: undef instruction at 0x3c looks weird.. last vector should be at 0x1c iirc?
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07:32:55kugelfunman: everything is mapped
07:33:38funmanhm right
07:33:44kugelAT 0x30000000 upwards, 3C doesn't make any sense at all
07:35:59kugelperhaps some function pointer gets screwed by the stkov? there is this usb_class_driver array in USB.c
07:36:35funmanlooks like this needs some JTAG
07:36:54[Saint]Well...that's...helpful:
07:37:17[Saint]panic stkov nand at ■x■■■■■■■■
07:37:53[Saint]Now, I just need to look up ■x■■■■■■■■ in the map file...
07:38:00kugeli can't reproduce that with more stack, but i can only reproduce it using screendump anyway, not normal USB insertion, on my fuzev2
07:38:57[Saint]WHy. Why you give bullshit addresses. WHY!?!
07:38:59[Saint]ლ(ಠ›ಠლ)
07:39:38[Saint]ANd why does increasing the stack size not help in the slightest? :-S
07:39:41kugel[Saint]: try increasing the stack size of the nand thread
07:39:46[Saint]^
07:40:14kugelby how much did you try?
07:40:17[Saint]I doubled it.
07:40:53[Saint]There's room to push it higher, though.
07:41:05kugelthe nand stack is tiny iirc, so doubled is still tiny
07:41:50[Saint]I'm still not 100% clear as to why USB insertion is causing a nand stkov
07:42:05[Saint]nor why I'm getting completely garbage addresses.
07:42:26kugelnobody is :-)
07:42:45[Saint]At least you got real numbers! :P
07:42:51[Saint]I got squares.
07:46:10*funman sees nothing wrong with squares, and goes on to building a cross compiler
07:46:56[Saint]Well...
07:46:59[Saint]•_•)
07:46:59[Saint]( •_•)>⌐■-■
07:46:59[Saint](⌐■_■)
07:47:05[Saint]...it is hip to be square.
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08:36:51funmankugel: i get undefined instruction on USB unplug with lebellium's theme, but i can't read the full line
08:36:56funmanand no problem with cabbiev2
08:37:20funmani have an old version of lebellium-Samsung-like
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08:43:15funmanso i get the same error, undef instruction at 0x3c
08:43:22funmani can't read sp though
08:43:34funmankugel: did you have a patch to be able to read the undef instruction address?
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11:02:50kugelfunman: no, I was testing on the fuzev2 where I can read the full line
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15:04:39funmankugel: ok, I will try my fuzev2 when i'm home. btw which theme do you use?
15:04:51kugellebellium's
15:04:59kugelbut I saw no sp either, nor backtrace
15:05:47funmani only saw that sp started with 0x3.... but no backtrace either on the zip
15:07:46kugelbacktrace is only implemented for dataabort and prefetch abort iirc
15:11:12kugelfunman: on the fuzev2 i needed to reduce the stack size. on the clipzip the stack is smaller due to the smaller screendump line buffer so its more prone to some heavy usage
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17:26:34lorenzo92ypr0 packer is ready (damn samsung devs lol)
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17:28:01Sansafuzeplususe...?
17:29:15SansafuzeplususeThere are many builds of firmware released, How often should the updatesbe applied & is it worth the risk of turning player into a brick
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17:30:49lorenzo92i guess there is no real risk updating rockbox itself i.e. only via the zip file; the risk is only the first time, when handling the bootloader
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17:31:25lorenzo92in other words: you just need to update .rockbox folder (via the zip) and that's it ;)
17:31:52Sansafuzeplususethank you for your reply lorenzo, any other views?
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17:35:38Sansafuzeplususeare you by chance a rockbox coder lorenzo, anyone?
17:36:31copperSansafuzeplususe: are you asking about the Fuze+?
17:36:38copperThat's what I use, and it works great.
17:38:46Sansafuzeplususecopper, yes, however i did read somewhere about the chance of turning the player into a brick if the firmware reload does not go well. I am trying to get an idea of how big the individual upgrades are, & is the performance improvement worthwhile.
17:40:01SansafuzeplususeI would reccomend charging the device is snasa mode though, fewere troubles
17:42:17Sansafuzeplususesnasa mode >>>sansa mode
17:43:37Sansafuzeplususein any case, i thank the room for thier considerate efforts
17:44:07copperSansafuzeplususe: the chances of bricking it are very low
17:44:26copperand installing Rockbox on the Fuze+ is pretty much a requirement, given how awful the original firmware is
17:44:52copperupdating Rockbox is very simple, just extract the zip file at the root of the Fuze+ mount
17:45:25Sansafuzeplususei am thinking the original firmware is as limited as it is so that it does not un-neccesarily overwhelm the processor within
17:45:47Sansafuzeplususeoccasional crashes
17:50:07Sansafuzeplususemost frquent fault in sansa mode is crash upon playing at higher speeds, most frquent source of crashes in Rockxo mode is overwhelming it with something like too many keypresses, (overflowing the buffer?)
17:50:44Sansafuzeplususedo you experience many crashes copper 7 please comment on scenario when it occurs
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18:19:07Sansafuzeplususegrazie lorenzo ciao
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18:36:44lorenzo92you are welcome ;)
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