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#rockbox log for 2013-08-18

00:27:01 Join melmothX [0] (~melmoth@unaffiliated/melmothx)
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07:00:16*[Saint] throws his hands up in dispair
07:00:37[Saint]WHY would it be an issue if I nuke CustomWPS if the info is consolidated in the manual?
07:01:13 Join ps-auxw [0] (~arneb@2001:470:c807:0:1532:4e5f:2ad3:4123)
07:02:20[Saint]Its like...."Hmmmm...favor incorrect community driven documentation that is constantly incorrect and outdated, or, consilidate it all in the *official* documentation committers are obligated to update..."
07:02:26[Saint]Geee...tough call guys. :P
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07:09:42[Saint]copper: no, no such changes were made.
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07:10:06[Saint](also, commit log is publicly available)
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07:37:21 Nick SuperBrainAK is now known as DormantBrain (~andy@shared02.balt01.cd.2g2u.net)
07:43:19*[Saint] needs to do this fucking push to nuke CustomWPS in favor of the manual...
07:43:37[Saint]*wanting* it to happen, sadly, isn't enough. :)
07:45:22[Saint]I had it like ~80% done and just needed to go through and list the *completely* undocumented tags a while ago, a long while ago, but I lost all that work when my netbook committed suicide.
07:46:07[Saint]If more than three people cared about themeing I'd be really ashamed of myself.
08:00
08:00:37 Quit Raptors (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
08:00:43copper[Saint]: is all the information on the wiki available in the manual?
08:00:55[Saint]No.
08:00:59[Saint]Nor vice versa.
08:01:11copperThen please don't nuke it?
08:01:30[Saint]what part of "consolidate" is escaping people?
08:01:43[Saint]If one includes the other, the other is needless.
08:01:57 Join Raptors [0] (~whoneedsa@216-58-33-203.cpe.distributel.net)
08:02:04copperalso, why the manual
08:02:12copperCustomWPS isn't really target specific
08:02:18[Saint]Its the official source of documentation.
08:02:24[Saint]The wiki is a massive clusterfuck.
08:02:52copperat least the wiki can be modified by anyone
08:02:55copperthe manual, not so much
08:03:01[Saint]that's the problem.
08:03:09copperis it
08:03:24[Saint]Yes. There's nothing stopping anyone from adding complete bullshit to it.
08:03:29[Saint]And, who would notice?
08:03:45[Saint]This shit doesn't change on a daily basis. :)
08:03:50copperand if the manual is poorly written, I can only bitch about it, hoping someone will fix it
08:04:12[Saint]If someone makes a change, they push the documentation change like they're supposed to...and, everything just works.
08:04:21[Saint]The fact that didn't happen is why we're in this mess.
08:04:56[Saint]The wiki is good, but its basically a best effort attempt to fix the holes that shouldn;'t exist in the manual.
08:05:38copperif there's a problem with the manual, eventually I'll find myself in the same situation as before where people who are able to change something, won't
08:05:54copperand I'll be asked again to file a bug and set up a gazillion stupid accounts to make my case
08:06:25[Saint]That doesn't change the fact that the wiki is absolutlely the wrong place for this.
08:06:33copperwhat
08:06:47copperwriting technical information on a wiki is hardly new
08:06:50copperand it usually works
08:07:06[Saint]I really don't care a flying fuck to be honest.
08:07:07copperthe wiki software was invented for such things
08:07:10[Saint]It doesn't work NOW.
08:07:14[Saint]And it hasn;t for years.
08:07:28copperfine
08:07:50copperI'm pretty sure I'm going to hate you for this
08:08:16[Saint]Asking a committer to update *one* place that they are OBLIGATED to, doesn't work...you expect them to update *two* places?
08:08:46[Saint]or should we drop the theme section in the manual and leave just the wiki? (hint: NO.)
08:09:23[Saint]I really don't see what is hard to understand about the manual being the right place for this.
08:10:56[Saint](of additional note, from something you mentioned earlier, is that the theme section of the manuals are not target specific)
08:11:49copperwell
08:11:59copperit's not like I get to vote on anything
08:12:27copperalso
08:12:28[Saint]I could understand people being up in arms about this if I got rid of CustomWPS *before* consolidating the information.
08:12:50[Saint]But, I am not, nor have I ever indicated I would, doing so.
08:12:54coppersomebody please fix the stupid <base> tag on the wiki that causes redirections and full page reloading everytime you click on a link (sigh)
08:13:00[Saint]That won;t vanish until the manual is complete.
08:13:35[Saint]Its basically people arguing because I want to make the documentation complete.
08:13:43[Saint]...fuck, I could leave it, if you're happy.
08:14:23[Saint]If you really want to dig through two places to find anything, and then dig through the source to find whats missing...be my guest.
08:14:56[Saint]If I get bitched at for wanting to do good, it really doesn't make me want to...y'know...do anything.
08:16:14copperI'm not saying, "don't fix the incomplete and sometimes incorrect documentation"
08:16:42copperI'm saying, "don't make it harder for contributors to fix the documentation, when everyone else can't be arsed to do it"
08:17:29copperI can edit the wiki easy enough (and I have)
08:22:07copper[Saint]: that's the problem IMO, when people like me would like something to be done, we can't expect anything to be done because this is a Free Software project and Rockbox developers work for free, on their free time
08:22:31copperat least with the Wiki, I can do it myself
08:22:55copperand I don't have to ask anyone to go out of their way to do it
08:23:28copperif you're going to fix everything and make the manual super accurate and complete, by all means, be my guest
08:23:38[Saint]I'm sorry, but, that is fuckign laughable.
08:23:46copper?
08:24:01[Saint]The fact this is a free software project is EXACTLY why you should expect something to be done about it.
08:24:06scorchecan we keep the discussion a bit tamer without resorting to a whole lot of "fucks"?
08:24:08[Saint]Want it done?
08:24:13[Saint]Who's stopping you?
08:24:58copper[Saint]: the whole setup is putting me off
08:25:17copperand my previous experience is putting me off
08:25:30[Saint]We accept manual submissions from many places, always have.
08:25:38coppereven you guys said that git put off many contributors
08:25:43[Saint]We do know that LaTex is a bit of an ask for most people.
08:25:54copperoh, I need to learn LaTeX now?
08:25:57copperForget about it.
08:26:04[Saint]Submissions can be made in plain text on Flyspray, or the ML, etc.
08:26:21[Saint]Its always been this way.
08:26:26[Saint](for the manual)
08:26:48copperyeah, I'm not subscribing to the ML again.
08:34:41 Quit Raptors (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
08:35:47[Saint]In a rare period of understanding, I do get why you're passionate about this.
08:35:50 Join Raptors [0] (~whoneedsa@216-58-33-203.cpe.distributel.net)
08:36:06[Saint]But, once its finished, no user should have any reason to need to edit this documentation.
08:36:32[Saint]The fact people need to do so now is merely a symptom of the entire problem.
08:37:45copperok
08:37:47[Saint]If we catch up the documentation with where we're at with the source in the manual, and make sure future changes come with documentation or not at all, there shouldn't ever be a need for a user to step in.
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08:39:47[Saint]I genuinely ashamed of myself that you have to be so passionate about this. I apologize for it. I sat and watched it happen and I didn't fix it.
08:40:02[Saint]But, I want to do something about it now, and I hope that counts for somethign.
08:41:09coppersure it does
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08:45:20copperalso, I need to make a SVN repo for my themes
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08:57:34copperugh
08:58:02copperoh
08:58:08*copper is an idiot
09:00
09:04:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:10:54copper[Saint]: maybe the word "skin" should be replaced with "theme" everywhere, if "theme" is the accepted term
09:20:41copperwoah
09:20:50copperthere's something wrong with %mp
09:21:55copperif I simply display %mp, its value starts from 0
09:22:16copperif I use %mp in a %?if() conditional, it starts from 1
09:30:53jlbiasinidoes anybody know something about the config file for creative zen? we have zenvisionm30gb.h, zenvisionm60gb.h which are clearly identified, zenvision.h that is just an alias for zenvisionm30gb.h, and then creativezv.h which seems to be a different player but I ccan't find it in other file (Zen Vision according to the comments)
09:33:33jlbiasinioups that #define HAVE_TOUCHPAD is commented out sorry I don't need info on this player anymore...
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09:48:48copperok, the manual mentionned the "number" parameter of %ss()
09:48:51copperthe wiki doesn't
09:49:30copperbut as it turns out, %?if(%ss(0, 2, %St(font), number), =, 14)<fourteen|some other size>
09:49:33copperdoesn't work
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09:50:23copper%?ss(0, 2, %St(font), number)<zero|one|two|three|four|else>
09:50:24copperworks
09:50:48copperbut the latter is hardly usable since it requires covering every single value
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10:05:41copperAH!
10:05:45copperI knew it
10:05:52copper%?if(%ss(0, 2, %St(font), number), =, 14)<fourteen|some other size>
10:06:15copper^ doesn't work because %?if() starts at 1 instead of 0 for everything else
10:06:19copper%?if(%ss(0, 2, %St(font), number), =, 15)<fourteen|some other size>
10:06:25copper^^ returns "fourteen"
10:06:38 Join melmothX [0] (~melmoth@unaffiliated/melmothx)
10:07:16copper^^ returns "fourteen" when the font is "14-Nimbus"
10:07:41copperthat is so fucked up
10:10:30jlbiasinianyone around with a touchscreen device?
10:10:44jlbiasiniI would nedd some testers for a patch
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11:04:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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11:38:02jlbiasinipamaury: ping
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11:44:21copperanyone else having problems with the Google Play Store on Android 4.3?
12:00
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12:10:36lebellium[Saint]: the manual may be the official documentation. But still it doesn't make sense for the theme documentation. The manual is target specific and it has many pages. We just don't want to go there to read that documentation. We want our wiki page. That's it. I prefer reading an incomplete documentation on the wiki than a complete documentation in the manual. I just use the manual to know...
12:10:37lebellium...how my player works. Any other use of a manual doesn't make sense
12:13:16copperthat's harsh
12:13:35copperI obviously prefer to read complete documentation, anywhere
12:14:40pixelmaI guess a separate theme manual might make sense. My problem with current manual and wiki is that neither stresses the differences between colour, greyscale and monochrome targets - I once thought about making the part in the manual more target specific but then decided that it probably wasn't that good either because it's possible to make themes that work on all displays and so on
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12:17:29copperalso, can someone comment on the %?if() bug above?
12:18:34copperI will strangle anyone claiming that it is a feature
12:21:26lebelliumpixelma: on the themewebsite there is no distinction for that. Only the resolution is taken into account. Thefore you can find X5 themes for M5 themes for example, http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?target=iaudiom5 which doesn't make sense at all to me. I already tried color themes on a greyscale targets, it technically works but it's unsuable.
12:22:52 Join Provel [0] (~Provel@75-132-18-44.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com)
12:24:12[Saint]Did I seriously read "I prefer incomplete documentation"?
12:24:20[Saint]...what is wrong with some people? Seriously?
12:25:49[Saint]"online only" documentation also sucks balls.
12:26:15[Saint]AT least with the manual you can trivially download a physical copy for storage and review it basically anywhere, Internet or no.
12:29:51lebelliumDo what you want with the manual as long as CustomWPS remains online
12:30:54[Saint]It really puzzles me as to why certain people are being so vocal about this, with seemingly no rational reasoning for their concerns.
12:31:12[Saint]The minute I read "I prefer incomplete documentation" is exactly when I stop listening to that person.
12:32:37lebelliumOf course I will not say that I prefer to read complete documentation anywhere like copper because otherwise you will complete the documentation in the user manual and then drop the CustomWPS page
12:32:44lebelliumThat's exactly what I don't want
12:32:45pixelmalebellium: I know but that's because the theme site doesn't look at the cfg and throws out themes that set foreground and background colours through global settings. If the WPS/SBS doesn't use unknown %Vf or %Vb, the themes "work" on those displays even if you can end up getting something unreadable
12:34:33[Saint]All I have been asking for is for someone to give me a legitimate reason as to why we need to maintain two sets of documentation (which we are obviously incapable of doing).
12:35:00[Saint]And when I suggest consolidating the information into a single source, and completing it, people get upset?
12:35:05[Saint]...I mean...what!?!
12:35:24[Saint]I don't know why I bother.
12:35:56lebelliumI suggest consolidating the information into the wiki page and drop the theme part of the manual
12:36:01pamauryjlbiasini: pong
12:37:13[Saint]WHy should the documentation be on the wiki, forcing a developer to keep that in line with the source?
12:37:29[Saint]It is precisely that reason that it is incomplete and people complain.
12:39:24pixelmawell, together with the fact that the developer mostly forcing the theme code hates LaTeX
12:39:41pixelmanot that I'm against a theme manual
12:39:46lebelliumThat's not true. If that was the reason, then the manual should be complete. The reality is that neither is. So we still can choose the wiki over the manual
12:40:33[Saint]Well, if you do, DO NOT COMPLAIN its incomplete, out of date, or wrong.
12:44:57[Saint]I would be happy to split out the theme section from the manual, that makes some sense indeed. But no one will ever be able to convince me that this information shouldn't be located in official documentation.
12:45:04lebelliumThe thing is that the manual is also incomplete, out of date and may be wrong. If I understood well you want to complete it. But then what happens next time it needs to be updated? Will the devs do it or will you be obliged to do it for them again and again?
12:46:00[Saint]I really don't see any further development on the horizon unless anyone else steps up.
12:46:11[Saint]So now is a very good time to get this done.
12:46:58[Saint]And yes, certainly, in future there needs to be a harder stance taken on features including documentation.
12:48:15copperdoes radio artwork no longer work?
12:48:48[Saint]I guess ultimately I feel as though if the manual is incorrect people have a right to complain. If the wiki is incorrect, I shrug my shoulders and say "Well, its a wiki".
12:49:10[Saint]copper: it should.
12:51:06copperdoesn't
12:52:25[Saint]Can we rule out you doing something wrong?
12:52:46[Saint]I'm assuming the images are locate din /.rockbox/fmpresets/ and named the same as the FM presets in question?
12:52:53[Saint]*located in
12:53:36[Saint]radio also needs to be in preset mode.
12:53:44[Saint]manual tuning won't trigger the art display.
12:54:21copperyes
12:54:22copperall check
12:54:30copperpreset name: Europe1
12:54:39copperfile name: Europe1.bmp
12:54:41lebellium[Saint]: the right to complain doesn't necessarily make things change. I also have the right to complain about USB issues on my Sansa but that doesn't change much and I know people here work for free during their free-time so....
12:54:44copperI also tried Europe1.jpg
12:55:43copper[Saint]: do you know of a iPod Video/Classic theme, or Fuze+ theme, that has working radio art?
12:57:54[Saint]I'm assuming this is a current build? Looks like last time this was looked at was around May.
12:57:57[Saint]And, no.
12:58:01[Saint]I rarely use FM.
13:00
13:01:53pixelmacopper: btw., nice find about the %?if tag, did you report it as a bug in the tracker?
13:02:36copperpixelma: not yet
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13:03:46copper"easy on the eyes theme"??? http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=481&target=sansafuzeplus
13:03:49trollin420could someone give me the link for the 3.13 rockbox that works with the latest gen ipod classic?
13:04:09[Saint]trollin420: No. No one can. No such link exists.
13:04:11trollin420think it was for ipod video
13:04:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:05:09[Saint]Nor will a build for iPod Video work.
13:05:15[Saint]You want http://build.rockbox.org/data/rockbox-ipod6g.zip
13:05:28trollin420ok thanks saint
13:05:54[Saint]The Classic doesn't get any releases, due to the target staus.
13:06:00[Saint]*status.
13:06:15trollin420is this from the ipod photo
13:06:34[Saint]No.
13:07:13user890104trollin420: alternatively, you can install/update rockbox on ipod classic, using the rockbox utility app, it will download the correct version
13:07:27[Saint]This is a specific iPod Classic build, it just isn't made widely available as there's no real need to.
13:07:54trollin420oh well thank you, appreciate the link
13:07:56[Saint]There's technically no way to install it, so making the build widely available would just confuse people.
13:08:29trollin420you just unpack it in the root directory i thought to "install"
13:09:16[Saint]Well, yes, you do - but it requires a total third party bootloader to boot it.
13:09:27[Saint]emCORE != Rockbox.
13:09:36trollin420i have emcore though
13:09:38[Saint](even if the developers do share the same projects)
13:10:33[Saint]Yes, you do, of course you do. What I'm saying is that the reson there's no obviously linked iPod Classic builds is that Rockbox doesn't actually support a way to install it.
13:12:40trollin420i think you gave me the same link before a few months back.... is it the same each time rockbox gets updated
13:12:59[Saint]That link will always point to the most current build, yes.
13:13:12[Saint]You can bookmark it to always get the vcurrent version.
13:13:17[Saint]*current
13:13:35trollin420ok great
13:15:05[Saint]copper: hahaha - nice find. :)
13:16:09coppercan't get the radio art to work
13:16:31 Quit trollin420 (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 18.0.1/20130119203203])
13:16:40[Saint]I can't see anything that obviously breaks this.
13:16:54[Saint]ANd there's evidence to suggest there was a known good period in May.
13:16:57[Saint]Hmmm.
13:19:14copperand using %?C<got art|no art> makes the sim crash
13:19:42[Saint]just for the .fms, or in general?
13:19:57copper.fms
13:20:33copperjust for the fms
13:20:44copperit works correctly in the wps
13:22:53copperSegmentation fault (core dumped)
13:22:57copper(in the fms)
13:23:26copper%C works correctly if I remove the artwork loading code
13:23:47copper%Cl() alone makes it crash
13:24:01copperI mean %Cl() in combination with %?C<>
13:24:40coppersigh
13:27:08[Saint]don't suppose you could build/try 280a0eb
13:27:16copperI could
13:27:28[Saint](that's just prior to the only thing I can see that might obviously affect this)
13:27:29copperhow do I get git to 280a0eb?
13:30:04[Saint]git checkout 280a0eb
13:32:06copperthanks
13:33:17[Saint]'git checkout master' to get back (otherwise rebase will complain about not being on a branch).
13:34:21[Saint]I assume there's a much easier way, but when I need to do this myself I usually just pop any local changes into a stash and do the above then pop the stash back.
13:34:47copperdoesn't work in the sim (ipod video target)
13:35:37copperalso crashes with %?C()
13:35:42copperalso crashes with %?C<|>
13:35:48[Saint]Well, bum. That was my best educated guess at a good version to try.
13:36:22[Saint]I don't think I have a single FM enabled target (that doesn't require hardware I don't have)
13:37:09[Saint]Oh, sorry, I do. I might have a look at some stage on-device.
13:38:39 Quit jlbiasini (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
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13:43:41coppernice, 12862df crashes with just the album art (no %?C<>)
13:51:27copperI wish I could build rockbox without the fuckton of plugins
13:54:43copper[Saint]: also, please document the %?if() +1 thing in the manual
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13:55:25jlbiasinipamaury: ping?
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13:59:45pixelmacopper: I wouldn't document bugs in the manual...
14:00
14:02:10copperpixelma: except it's already pretty much documented like that
14:02:20copper"Examples: "
14:02:23copper"You are in the %?cs<Main menu|WPS|Recording screen|FM Radio screen>"
14:02:27copper"%?if(%cs, =, 2)<This is the WPS>"
14:02:54copperanyway, *something* needs to be fixed
14:04:56coppergah
14:05:07copperI've dealt with too many Rockbox bugs in the past few days
14:05:15coppermakes me feel nauseous
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14:13:35[Saint]the "bug" is the odd mix of 0 and 1 based starting points.
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14:14:22[Saint]also, yadda yadda, community driven, get what you paid for, etc.
14:19:21copper[Saint]: %?if(14, =, 15) that returns true is definitely not a feature :P
14:19:44[Saint]Nor was I implying it was.
14:19:52copperyou air quoted the word "bug"
14:19:55copperI saw you
14:20:47copperooh
14:20:48[Saint]Well, its not so much a bug as a weird event that happens due to the mixing of 0 and 1 as starting points for some tags.
14:21:15[Saint]Not so much a bug as unintended consequences. It technically behaving correctly, even if correctly is broken.
14:21:45[Saint](If I am indeed understanding the underlying cause correctly, which I believe myself to be)
14:31:38pamauryjlbiasini: pong
14:31:53jlbiasiniA few different stuff
14:32:53jlbiasinifirst g#525 should be ready for pushing
14:32:57fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #525 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/525 : 3[Fuze+][Touchpad] Improve touchpad power managment by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/25/525/10)
14:33:54jlbiasiniI only renamed touchpad_enable(bool en) to touchdev_enable because it's has to be the same function for all touchpad/touchscreen devices
14:35:03jlbiasinisecond: acctually touchpad/touchscreen that have button_hold implement the touch disable at driver level which mean there isn't any additional work needed for them
14:35:34jlbiasiniactually the f+ is the only touchpad target with softlock
14:36:02jlbiasiniso appart from touchscreen target there is nothing to do
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14:37:50jlbiasini_i updated g#569 and g#532 to take those subtilities into account
14:37:53fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #569 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/569 : 3Disable touch device on softlock. by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/69/569/4)
14:37:54fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #532 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/532 : 3[touchscreen] touchdev_enable implementation by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/32/532/5)
14:39:25jlbiasini_third: on target with button_hold the desactivation of touch device while locked is not optional. It is worth make a setting for it on softlock then?
14:40:42jlbiasini_pamaury: ^
14:40:55pamaurywhy is touchdev deactivation handled at the driver level on targets with hold ?
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14:41:37jlbiasini_because as hold is a specific buttun the driver can know directly if the device is locked or not
14:42:19jlbiasini_on softlock hold is just a mapped action like any other so it's up to action to set it...
14:42:32pamauryhum, I don't really like this idea, one might prefer not to disable to touchdev so it acts as a softlock
14:42:48pamauryI mean that softlock and hardlock should be handled the same and have a setting
14:43:32jlbiasini_well it means rewriting all drivers then...
14:43:54pamaurywhy so ?
14:44:20jlbiasini_I meant all button driver
14:44:21pamauryiirc hold is not handled at the driver level
14:44:29jlbiasini_it is
14:45:02jlbiasini_at least on the touchpad device I saw (gigabeat-fx and zvm)
14:46:40pamauryhum, it appears you are right
14:46:46jlbiasini_if the button lock is set it return button_none else it probes the device
14:47:13pamaurybut still, we can handle it in action.c because it monitors button_hold state I thik
14:47:31pamauryie on the first non-hold to hold transition, disable and on the first hold to non-hold transition, enable back
14:48:06pamaurydamn, action.c doesn't track hold state :(
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14:48:37pamauryYou see the problem I guess: if we are to make this a setting, it should be handled by apps/ and not firmware/
14:50:10jlbiasini_well the way to do it wright is to have all button_lock rewrite as extra key, then mapped as soft lock
14:50:22jlbiasini_*right
14:51:17pamaurynot a good idea, it will be very error prone. I think a best idea would be to have action.c monitor hold state using button_hold()
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14:53:12jlbiasini_question is: why is there a difference between hold and soft then? If this was just a matter of not having a specific button on new target, the whole stuff should have been rewrited with the implementation of softlock. If it wasn't made before, the question is why should WE do it?
14:53:14pamauryie next to the #ifndef HAS_BUTTON_HOLD, add #else and handle the hard lock case and maybe handle it has softlock ?
14:53:45pamauryI guess because on some target you can't even know you are locked
14:54:00pamauryie lock is a switch which disable all buttons in hardware and don't even let you know
14:54:21jlbiasini_that make sense
14:54:31pamauryjust a guess and also because it's simpler and because hard lock has a well defined behaviour: not key is active while hard lock
14:54:51pamaurythis is unclear with softlock: you don't want to enable it in all contexts and maybe allow some keys to go through
14:55:02pamauryand finally because it was implemented by different people :)
14:56:08pamauryI agree that now it doesn't seem optimal
14:56:27jlbiasini_so we rewrite only target with touchpad, isn't it?
14:57:27pamaurywe don't even have to, do we ? For targets with softlock, your patches (+ a setting) should do. And for targest with a hard lock, well maybe we can leave this for another commit and handle it the same way in action.c
14:57:36jlbiasini_well and touchscreen if there are
14:58:13pamaurytouchscreen will be handled together with touchpad right ?
14:58:29jlbiasini_that was the first plan
14:58:29pamauryso what actually matters is softlock vs hardlock ?
14:59:17jlbiasini_there might also be touchscreen device with hard coded keyhold in their driver...
14:59:26jlbiasini_yes
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15:00:31jlbiasini_the problem is I dnn't have a touchscreen device to test it and I have no idea of all the touscreen device/with or without softlock
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15:00:53pamauryso my plan is: keep "Disable touch device on softlock." but add a setting for it. Then keep "touchdev_enable implementation" (i'll test it).
15:01:00jlbiasini_And I'm also concern about android touchscreen that seems to be handle a different way
15:01:02pamauryAnd finally add one more patch for hardlock
15:01:34pamauryI think android is currently handled as a normal touchscreen target, just a "fake" driver
15:02:36jlbiasini_Yes that also what I tought we start with only touchpad and once it works ont touchscreen we add a || defined touchscreen to the condition
15:02:49pamauryyes, make sense
15:04:01jlbiasini_so I just have to correct zvm and gigabeat fx, isn't it? I mean not the whole button_hold target? please say yes! :/
15:04:01copperpamaury: did you commit your radio powerup fix?
15:04:05copperer
15:04:07pamauryyes
15:04:09copperI could just check it out myself
15:04:50pamauryjlbiasini_: I think so yes, you have to implement touchdev_enable for them if I understand the whole thing
15:05:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:05:04copperpamaury: were you ever able to display radio art in the fms?
15:05:32jlbiasini_ok, this doable... see you later then, I have work to do!!! :D
15:05:40jlbiasini_*is doable
15:06:01pamaurycopper: no idea, what is radio art ?
15:06:36jlbiasini_copper: pamaury is not exactly the them guy ;)
15:06:42jlbiasini_*theme
15:07:11copperpamaury: a jpg file in /.rockbox/fmpresets with the same name as the current FM preset
15:07:12pamauryExactly. I'm more like a robot when using an mp3 player: play/pause, prev and next. Why do we have a screen ? ;)
15:07:33pamauryah no, I didn't know we had such a feature
15:07:38jlbiasini_hahah :D
15:07:43pamaurycool feature though
15:07:45pamaury:)
15:08:02copperexcept that it doesn't work!
15:08:07jlbiasini_indeed I didn't knew either :D
15:08:38pamauryyou better ask JdGordon| I think
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16:11:54jlbiasini_pamaury: problem with the zen vision m: there is a button hold and a button unhold
16:12:47jlbiasini_action.c cannot handle that directly
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16:18:31jlbiasini_ha ok I have to implement button_hold like on the gige fx
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16:49:14jlbiasini_pamaury: unless we map both unhold and hold to action_keylock (which is ugly) we won't have softlocks on the zen vision mXX
16:51:43lebelliumThere is some work on the ZV:M port again? I thought it was inactive
16:52:18jlbiasini_well we implement some general function for touch device
16:52:38jlbiasini_ok so I guess I can drop this one! thanks
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17:01:24lebelliumlooks like there is still no sound on ZV:M and the port looks inactive so I wouln't bother much with it
17:01:36Jason700Good afternoon all
17:02:29JdGordon|pamaury: ?
17:02:52jlbiasini_lebellium: ok
17:03:07pamauryJdGordon|: copper had a problem with radio art, I thought you could help him
17:03:15Jason700how is rockbox for the iriver h100?
17:03:19jlbiasini_pamaury: problem exactly similar with gigabeat fx
17:03:24Jason700just found my old h100 40gb in my drawer
17:04:24jlbiasini_pamaury: perhaps I didn't understood exactly what I was suppose to do with the button_hold target, could you rephrase it?
17:05:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:05:49 Quit jlbiasini_ (Quit: jlbiasini_)
17:05:54pamauryjlbiasini: I don't understand your problem, can you explain it
17:06:09pamaurydamn he is gone
17:08:53lebelliumJason700: it works fine
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17:09:48Jason700just haven't used rockbox in aaaagggeeessss since my Jukebox Recorder stopped working many many years ago
17:09:51Jason700that was my first MP3 player
17:10:44lebelliumbut most likely your H100 battery is pretty dead
17:11:04jlbiasinipamaury: just a little connection problem. Question what should I do on the gigabeat fx driver ie button_hold target that disable directly the touchpad at driver level?
17:11:23pamauryjlbiasini: here is my idea for button_hold: http://paste.pm/98m.c
17:13:11jlbiasiniok but I don't get the point of doing that as anyway the driver will cut it at driver level
17:14:22pamauryIf you want to do it at the hardware level, I would prefer that we have some wrapper called to manage to setting then
17:15:08pamauryie add setting to apps/ which calls some function in firmware/ like touchdev_set_hold_state(bool disable_touchdev);
17:15:32pamauryand then a generic touchdev_do_hold(bool hold) which calls touchdev_enable if the setting requires so and don't do that otherwise
17:15:43jlbiasiniif we want to operate at action level we could put your code at driver level and define a new key
17:16:10jlbiasinion change
17:16:16pamauryfinally I think it's better at the driver level: I check and action.c does a log of magic when there is no key pressed, I'm unsure that would work
17:16:26pamaury*checked, lot
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17:18:08jlbiasiniok so the point is to have a setting for those target too
17:19:13Jason700My H140 is still working well, just ain't used it in ages since I got an iPod
17:19:15pamaurysure, we want the same setting for everyone, wait a second, I have some code
17:20:45jlbiasinipamaury: the point of having a key for it is to reuse the softlock mecasism unstead of rewriting the same code in a has_button_hold but has_touchpad exception
17:22:44pamauryI don't like the idea of the fake key, that means messing with keymaps and action.c, we already have virtual keys and I think it's a mess
17:22:46pamauryjlbiasini: http://paste.pm/98n.js
17:22:59pamaurythis way that's one line per new driver
17:25:13pamaurywhat do you think, does that look ok ?
17:35:18jlbiasinipamaury: let me check if I understood that correctly: touchdev_disable_dev_on_hold is to set the setting, touchdev_do_hold check changes on hold status and perform change in locking touchpad if needed.
17:35:29jlbiasiniok I got it
17:35:38pamauryyes exactly
17:35:55jlbiasiniand where could be somewhere.c?
17:36:03jlbiasini*should
17:36:41copperJdGordon|: are you able to display radio art in the fms?
17:36:47jlbiasinithe good new is that gigabeat-fx is actually the only target to updae
17:36:53pamaurygood question, either add touchdev.c file (and move default touchdev_enable from touchscreen.c to touchdev.c), or somewhere else
17:37:02pamauryI think touchdev.c is better
17:37:17jlbiasiniin apps?
17:37:47pamauryin firmware
17:37:53jlbiasiniok
17:38:19jlbiasinithanks very much those explaination that is much more clear now
17:39:09jlbiasiniI have to go but if you have other tips/recommandation go on I will let xchat running... see you all later
17:41:45JdGordon|copper: yes
17:42:49copperJdGordon|: with what target / build / theme?
17:43:02JdGordon|any target with a radio will allow it
17:43:11copperno I mean it doesn't seem to be working right now
17:43:27JdGordon|it might be disabled because it was causing data aborts
17:43:41copperok that's what I'm asking
17:43:46copperis it supposed to be working, or not?
17:46:16JdGordon|dunno
17:46:53copperloading artwork and then using %?C<true|false> crashes the sim
17:46:58copperiPod Video and Fuze+
17:47:11copperloading artwork only (in the fms) doesn't work
17:47:18copperthe artwork doesn't show
17:47:24coppertried jpg and bmp files
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17:48:23copperok, here's the latest versions of my themes: http://outpost.fr/rockbox/Googley-FuzePlus.png and http://outpost.fr/rockbox/Googley-Classic.png
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18:58:28fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision ee55acd, 217 builds, 19 clients.
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19:05:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:05:40fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Build round completed after 432 seconds.
19:05:42fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision ce714cb, 217 builds, 19 clients.
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19:58:49copperlebellium: a small gripe with samsung-like for the Fuze+: it doesn't display the preset name
19:59:57copper(on the fms)
20:00
20:00:19copperor does it prioritize the RDS name?
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20:50:54lebelliumcopper: it prioritize the RDS name
20:51:00lebelliumif no RDS, it should display the preset name instead
20:55:04copperI do the opposite
20:55:26copperI don't trust companies not to include crap in there
20:55:28lebelliumI love RDS but I don't listen to FM radio. That's maybe why :D
20:55:32copperlike botched CD-Text
20:55:58copperofficial CD-text (straight from the recording company!) is like a really bad MP3 from some shady torrent site
20:56:11copperwith lots of typos, all caps, etc
20:56:27copperI display RDS "information" but they put crap in there too
20:56:58lebelliumI've always been fascinated by RDS technoloy. Getting text info over the air is so amazing. That's why I prioritize RDS. But as I said, I almost never listen to FM radio so I don't know if this choice makes sense :D
20:57:17[Saint]Oh, yes, indeed. RDS here can very rarely actually tell you what station you're on.
20:57:23[Saint]Its mostly advertising.
20:57:36lebelliumYou have RDS in Australia?!
20:57:51[Saint]I'm in Australia?
20:57:58lebelliumNew Zealand?
20:58:02[Saint](also, why would that be amazing, even if I were?)
20:58:15[Saint]RDS is *old* technology.
20:58:37lebelliumRDS only exists in Europe. There is another variant of RDS in the USA and Canada. That's why that would be amazing
20:59:13[Saint]That is so wrong its not even funny.
21:00
21:00:10[Saint]I'm sorry. I know of no other way to put that. Its wildly incorrect.
21:00:37lebelliumthen correct it
21:00:43lebelliumwhere do you live and where is RDs available
21:00:51[Saint]I did. You're wrong.
21:01:00[Saint]I live in New Zealand, we have RDs.
21:01:13[Saint]We have had for many, many, many years.
21:01:24lebelliumGood to know
21:02:03[Saint]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stations_using_the_Radio_Data_System_in_New_Zealand
21:02:22*copper just updated the FM preset file for his town, on the Rockbox Wiki
21:03:15coppersome stations were bought and ELIMINATED
21:03:28copperalso, dupes
21:04:12lebelliumis there somewhere a list of all countries using RDS?
21:05:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:05:51copperI'm still waiting for digital radio
21:06:04copperwith shitty 24kbps streams (or something)
21:06:22copperseems like that never caught on in France
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21:10:42lebelliumok, RDS is also used in Australia
21:11:27lebelliumI'm now wondering why Samsung has always only enabled it in EU region code on all players...
21:13:01[Saint]"Because they're dicks"
21:14:20lebelliumthat's not new
21:14:26lebelliumbut I was still in hope
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21:18:27lebelliumactually I see on the Samsung NZ website that they only shipped CHN (China) and XSA (Asutralia) players in NZ. No specific NZ models. Sounds like they don't care about that country :)
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21:20:30[Saint]When you can set the FM banding independantly, this is of little consequence.
21:20:52lebelliumsure
21:22:53[Saint]And a DAP that doesn't offer this, regardless of the set locale, is one doomed to failure, IMO.
21:23:08[Saint]Travelling? Ha! No radio for you! :)
21:23:20lebelliumindeed
21:23:58lebelliumThat's what Sony does. I have a Japanese A855. I can't change the language (not even get english) and can't change the FM frequency to Europe
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21:56:34lebelliumpixelma: I just bought a 2nd Archos Ondio FM 128 on ebay UK. I hope this one has the other FM tuner (Philips chip) :)
22:00
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22:23:40bertriklebellium: if it comes without the wanted tuner, perhaps you can buy it separately and solder it in yourself
22:23:54jhMikeSThink I should push g570 or is anyway utterly committed to the idea of a scroller thread?
22:23:57fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #570 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/570 : 3Remove scroll thread and power scrollers when waiting for buttons. by Michael Sevakis (changes/70/570/2)
22:24:09jhMikeSs/anyway/anyone
22:25:18[Saint]jhMikeS: you'd want to poke both kugel and JdGordon| here
22:25:44*jhMikeS thought it said "JdGordoni" :\
22:26:01[Saint]I would add both of them as reviewers, were it myself.
22:26:13jhMikeSpossible good idea detected
22:26:57[Saint]Is there a list somewhere of "Stuff People Know Stuff About"?
22:27:06[Saint]If not, would such a list be useful?
22:27:24[Saint]A "Who should I ask about N?" list.
22:27:26gevaertsThere is
22:27:32gevaertsIt's probably rather outdated though
22:27:38[Saint]Ooooh, is it vaguely current? :)
22:27:41[Saint]Aha.
22:27:46gevaertshttp://www.rockbox.org/wiki/KnowledgeMap
22:27:57[Saint]Excellent, thank you.
22:28:19jhMikeSOnly gevaerts knew about the knowedge map
22:28:42gevaerts:)
22:28:57*[Saint] adds "Knowledge Maps: Frank Gevaerts"
22:29:12[Saint]ALso - Whoooooaaaaaa that is old!
22:29:37[Saint]User Interface & WPS code - Jonathan Gordon (JdGordon, Not WPS code)
22:31:01*[Saint] is rather surprised to see that there are no entires for either coffee or beer
22:31:08[Saint]Clearly this is an oversight.
22:31:55jhMikeSwho goes in for hard drugs? :)
22:32:07[Saint]<−−
22:33:28lebelliumbertrik: Not sure I have the skills and stuff for that. Otherwise I could also apply the backlight mod^^
22:34:05[Saint]The backlight mod is really trivial.
22:34:25*bertrik doesn't even know what the backlight mod is
22:34:54jhMikeSrtfkm
22:35:13lebelliumbertrik: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/OndioBacklight
22:38:01[Saint]It certainly looks intimidating, but the process is rather simple.
22:38:50lebelliumif you already did similar things before. I
22:39:01lebelliumI'm not even sure I have soldering stuff at home
22:40:29[Saint]You could also do a less effective side-lit mod too.
22:41:12lebelliumhum that would look like a 80's backlighted casio watch?
22:41:46[Saint]If by that you mean "good lighting around the edges, but largely useless", then "yes". :)
22:42:12lebelliumexactly :D
22:44:03lebellium"Assembly: It requires SMT soldering equipment and skills, a very limiting factor, besides the required components. "
22:44:32lebelliumseriously, I can't :( Nobody in Europe willing to mod my Ondio? :D
22:44:53[Saint]This *was* also written in ~2005ish, iirc.
22:45:02[Saint]At a time when that was actually reasonably true.
22:45:33lebelliumthat's the difference regarding equipment and skills between 2005 and 2013?
22:45:42lebelliumwhat's*
22:46:01 Quit bertrik (Remote host closed the connection)
22:46:23 Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik)
22:46:35jhMikeSyou had 8 years to practice them?
22:46:43[Saint]Hahahaha
22:47:30lebelliumgood point :D
22:47:41[Saint]Reflow/soldering stations and heat guns weren't exactly commonplace at that time.
22:48:36jhMikeSI've done SMT with a regular iron. just be careful.
22:48:36[Saint]Only an expert, or serious hobbiest had such equipment, at least around me.
22:50:14*lebellium looking for a skilled guy around here
22:50:23lebelliumpamaury: do you have the stuff? :D
22:50:46pamaurydepends for what
22:50:53lebelliumfor this backlight mod
22:51:35pamaurynot really, i'm not an electrical hacker, haven 't soldered things in years
22:51:54lebelliumarf
22:52:07pamaurysorry :(
22:52:30lebelliumI don't know any other skilled Frenchy here
22:53:21pamauryneither do I actually, i know mostly theoretical computer scientists :)
22:53:38bertrikI think funman nearly took a finger off, trying to create a fuze scrollwheel out of a broomstick :)
22:54:33jhMikeSa witches wheel
22:55:30[Saint]Oh, yes. I remember that.
22:55:35[Saint]That was a laugh.
22:55:38[Saint]...shit.
22:55:45[Saint]Not for funman, of course.
22:55:56*[Saint] suddenly feels guilty
22:56:02 Nick [Saint] is now known as [Sinner] (~saint@rockbox/user/saint)
22:57:37 Nick [Sinner] is now known as [Saint] (~saint@rockbox/user/saint)
22:58:45 Quit rela (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:00
23:00:14*funman counts his fingers
23:01:39bertrikmaybe I exagerated a bit
23:05:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:05:30lebelliumah yes you live in France funman right? You're the guy!
23:05:32lebellium:D
23:09:10funmanlebellium: i have not soldered anything in years and i was pretty bad at it
23:15:12lebelliumarf
23:15:18lebelliumis that a typical French problem? :D
23:30:28[Saint]..if only you could solder with cheese and wine.
23:30:36[Saint]You'd be experts.
23:30:58[Saint]<insert other inaccurate French stereotypes here>
23:35:51 Join jlbiasini [0] (~metaphysi@lns-bzn-45-82-65-183-31.adsl.proxad.net)
23:43:02 Nick SuperBrainAK is now known as DormantBrain (~andy@shared02.balt01.cd.2g2u.net)
23:44:54pixelmaIIRC XavierGr or the other greek guy, Genre9mp3, tried the Ondio backlight with LEDs mod

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