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#rockbox log for 2013-09-11

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01:41:13Wraithulekhello!
01:41:46wowanameh
01:41:50wowanamewhat's going on
01:42:08wowanameinb4 you have a sanza
01:42:16Wraithulekno ;p
01:42:25Wraithuleki have problem with my iPod with Rockbox
01:42:26wowanamek
01:42:28wowanameoh
01:42:30wowanameipod which
01:42:33wowanameinb4 nano
01:42:36Wraithulekclassic 4g
01:42:38wowanameoh
01:42:47wowanamei have a classic 6g (160gb)
01:42:51wowanamewhat's your problem though
01:42:57wowanamei *may* be able to help
01:43:09Wraithulekfrom yesterday my database is blank
01:43:13wowanameoh
01:43:16Wraithulekbut i didn't do anything
01:43:17wowanamedatabase sucks
01:43:24wowanamei mean i love it but the handling sucks
01:43:43Wraithuleknow i cant start any song ;x
01:43:50wowanameoh
01:43:52Wraithulekwhat can i do?
01:43:54wowanameum
01:43:56wowanameso you cant access it via Files
01:43:57wowanamelike
01:44:00wowanamego to your music location
01:44:03wowanameand play it from ther
01:44:15wowanametry that
01:44:34wowanamei mean not permanently, just see if ti works
01:49:10Wraithulekim trying, but when i click center button nothing happens
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11:11:06 Join Cosmo^ [0] (~Freenode@ks3301831.kimsufi.com)
11:21:00Cosmo^hullo
11:22:27Cosmo^has anyone had much experience with the iPod Classic port?
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11:27:38gevaertsCosmo^: it's usually a good idea to directly ask questions, instead of first trying to find out if someone might know the answer
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11:29:40Cosmo^oh, sorry
11:29:52Cosmo^it's not a particularly clear question actually, I just wanted a bit of general advice :)
11:30:12Cosmo^the iPod Classic port is really great, I just wanted to know if there was a way to get the battery meter to be more accurate
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11:31:49Cosmo^but on the plus side, Rockbox has made this iPod useable again :)
11:33:35gevaertsBattery meters tend not to be very accurate
11:33:46*gevaerts doesn't know specifics about the classic one
11:34:25Cosmo^I see, is there no way I can calibrate it to my device or anything?
11:36:02wodzCosmo^: yes you can but it is a bit involving
11:36:23Cosmo^I don't mind doing something involved, that's OK
11:36:47wodzCosmo^: you would need to record discharge curve with battery_bench plugin and then based on this curve adjust source file and recompile
11:36:55Cosmo^I can do that
11:37:26Cosmo^great, I'll do that this evening
11:38:24Cosmo^in fact, let me kick off the battery_bench plugin today and leave it running while I'm at work
11:39:03Cosmo^before I do that, though, I'm having a bit of difficulty telling whether the device is fully charged, it seems to sit at 99%, is that because it's not calibrated right and it's still charging? or is this the final trickle charge
11:40:09wodz99% is pretty close to full charge, I don't think you will get better accuracy
11:40:51Cosmo^that's OK, I just wanted to be sure it's close enough to a full charge before I begin a battery bench
11:41:42wodzCosmo^: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/PluginBatteryBenchmark should help a bit to understand what you will get
11:41:55Cosmo^yes, I'm having a quick look at that now :)
11:43:37Cosmo^I'm just trying to get the final niggles sorted out and get a good solid install of Rockbox on this device
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12:08:03Cosmo^wow, I gave it a full charge, kicked off the battery benchmark plugin and then started something playing and it's already dropped down to 82%!
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12:09:24copperCosmo^: are you using the EQ or some other DSP?
12:09:31Cosmo^nope
12:16:31Cosmo^this is just a fresh install copper, I haven't really played with the settings
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13:45:13Cosmo^well, still chugging along, looks like it might just be the natural fall in the battery capacity from years of usage, as it drops pretty much immediately down to 80% or so and then drops slowly from there
13:45:22Cosmo^so recalibration should improve this quite a bit
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15:00:15Cosmo^also, if I'm doing my own build for the iPod classic to impove the battery calibration, are there any other patches or changes I could make to improve things specific to my device?
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15:16:32wodzCosmo^: You may give g#379 a tray
15:16:35fs-bluebotbluebrother: I just crashed
15:16:44wodzlovely
15:16:53wodzhttp://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#/c/379/
15:18:01Cosmo^thank you wodz :)
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15:23:22Cosmo^the only other question I have is ... is there a way to get charging the device supported while it's off?
15:23:42Cosmo^well, with the stock firmware, when plugging the device into, it auto powers on
15:23:45Cosmo^Rockbox doesn't do this
15:24:19Cosmo^is this configurable, is it based on emCORE?
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15:27:04copperfor charging, I _feel_ like it works better with a USB wall charger
15:27:14copperI haven't actually benched it
15:27:36copperbut it goes to a full 100%, really fast
15:29:00Cosmo^well that's entirely possible, especially if it's a charger providing more than 500Ma
15:29:33Cosmo^I've got some devices that will ONLY charge from wall chargers and not from PC USB ports :)
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15:32:49amayerbluebot gives crash warnings now? thats cool!
15:36:42gevaertsCosmo^: with the original firmware, it actually never fully shuts down
15:45:37copperit would be awfully nice if someone figured out how to put it in "deep sleep" or whatever (with Rockbox)
15:45:55copperthe instant on feature of the OF is really niec
15:45:58coppernice*
15:46:54gevaertsamayer: do you by any chance have some time for a themesite bug? Ratings aren't checked, so you can do a POST with any rating value you like...
15:47:47amayergevaerts: I could look into this. with the current site there are a lot of things that you can just post and it isnt checked
15:49:21gevaertsWell, do you have time for a full audit? ;)
15:50:24copperamayer: someone is using it to downrate themes to ridiculous levels
15:50:50gevaertsWhen it's fixed, I suppose we'd better just reset all ratings
15:50:55copperhttp://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=10&target=ipodvideo
15:51:15gevaertsNo point doing that before the hole is plugged though
15:51:29copperFS #12896
15:51:30fs-bluebothttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12896 3Suspiciously low theme ratings, inconsistent rating average (bugs, unconfirmed)
15:51:37copper^^ related bug report
15:52:45amayergevaerts: i would like to change the rating system over to a "thumbs up/thumbs down" model.
15:53:02amayerhttp://youtube-global.blogspot.com/2009/09/five-stars-dominate-ratings.html http://www.evanmiller.org/how-not-to-sort-by-average-rating.html
15:53:19*gevaerts doesn't object
15:54:02gevaertsAs long as it's not *just* thumbs up, I think any system works well enough
15:54:21gevaertsAnd if we're going to reset ratings anyway, now is the time to change :)
15:54:27copperugh
15:54:36copperthat formulah is mandarin to me
15:55:15copperat least it comes with example code
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15:55:28amayergevaerts: ive been working on redoing the whole themesite but it is going kinda slow. i need to take a couple of days and just sit down and do it.
15:55:50gevaerts(we could restore ratings from a year and a half ago, but that would be rather unfair to newer themes)
15:56:17amayeri think i will need to reset the ratings when we switch to a "like/dislike" model anyway
15:56:26gevaertsYes, definitely
15:56:34copperhow are you going to prevent people from upvoting / downvoting themes repeatedly?
15:57:01copperwon't be easy / foolproof without user accounts
15:57:25gevaertsWell, in theory we could use forum accounts for that
15:57:30amayercopper: well you will log in through the forums so i was just going to grab your ID and store that, that way if your ID is in the set you cant vote again
15:57:44amayergevaerts: ...beat me to it
15:58:03amayeryou have to be logged in to vote but not to download the there
15:58:05gevaertsamayer: not entirely. "in theory" is not as strong as "I'll do it this way" :)
15:58:05amayertheme*
15:58:16copperah, ok
15:58:29copperthat's a decent solution
15:58:52copperthough I reckon few people will rate the themes
15:58:58copperfew people do as it is
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16:00:57amayercopper: yeah thats true but i like being able to rate themes
16:01:08coppersure
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16:02:38copperpersonally, I value download counts more (provided that they represent actual downloads from actual people)
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16:03:06copperbut ratings offer additional information about user satisfaction after actually trying out the theme
16:03:15gevaertsIt seems that many people just download all themes rbutil shows them
16:03:24gevaertsSo I don't really think those mean a lot
16:05:00copperit will be interesting when both ratings and download counts get sorted out
16:05:59amayeri wasnt really planning on changing anything about the download count. user clicks download link $downloads++;
16:07:04copperamayer: what about filtering out bots?
16:07:20copperthose generate a lot of traffic, IME
16:07:31copperbots / crawlers
16:08:27Cosmo^ah, yes copper
16:08:31Cosmo^I didn't realise that
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16:08:43Cosmo^that the OF only does deep sleep and doesn't fully turn off
16:08:55Cosmo^for some reason I don't seem to be able to use the OF on this iPod properly, only rockbox
16:09:05copperCosmo^: which also means it loses its charge over time, when not used
16:09:20Cosmo^true
16:09:35Cosmo^basically I had lots of problems with the OF, so I put rockbox on to see if it was a SW or HW issue
16:09:38Cosmo^and Rockbox works fine
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16:15:31amayercopper: what kind of bots? google/yahoo? or homebrewed?
16:16:33copperall kinds
16:17:04copperbig names (google, yahoo, bing) and other online services that I don't know
16:17:32copperpoint is, there are always all kinds of bots constantly crawling the web
16:17:33amayerthere is no 100% way to check if the "person" visiting the site is a bot, you can filter by UserAgent but if you have a homebrewed bot the user agent can be what ever you want.
16:17:52copperI know it can't be 100% foolproof
16:17:53amayeri have a list of bots i will filter (google, bing, yahoo, some others)
16:18:02copperbut filtering out obvious ones helps
16:18:10copperI gave you a list the other day
16:18:31amayerwell then you are the person who gave me the list :p
16:18:40coppereh
16:19:15coppermost of them have user agents that make it clear that they are bots
16:19:26copperi.e. they're not designed to cheat or whatever
16:19:44amayerthe major ones kinda do. but when ever i make a bot to do something i always tell the webserver that i am chrome
16:19:51copperor to conceal their identity
16:20:14copperthe "minor" ones aren't a big issue
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16:33:12copperamayer: do you have access to raw httpd logs?
16:33:34copperan easy way to figure out what to filter out, is to first filter out known user agents
16:33:35amayercopper: nope. i dont have any access to the server. that would be scorche
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18:46:40scorche|shi dont think the ratings really matter that much - i would honestly be more in favor of just nuking that system rather than tryping to go through all of the various methods talked about above to try and secure it
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18:48:32AlexPindeed, I don't see why it matters or why anyone would care
18:48:52AlexPbut if people want to do it, then fine
18:50:03scorche|sheither way you cut it, there will be ways to game the system
18:50:12scorche|shi dont really feel that the ratings really give all that much value
18:51:20AlexPagreed
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19:00
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19:04:07copperI'm not against nuking it
19:04:28coppernot sure if my voice counts on that matter
19:04:51scorche|shit doesnt, really - but i do wonder why you seem to take so much offense to it
19:05:01copperwhere
19:05:30scorche|shyou are the only person i have really seen who seems to care about it
19:05:46copperI only started caring when I saw someone tampering with the system
19:05:57copperI didn't before
19:15:56 Part LinusN
19:19:07Cosmo^well ... iPod still going
19:19:20Cosmo^a bit annoying not being able to use it while the battery bench does its thing 8)
19:20:30copperwhy not?
19:20:36Cosmo^well, I could
19:20:40copperjust play music like you normally would
19:20:41Cosmo^but I decided to just leave it running on its own
19:20:46copperdoes the same thing
19:20:51Cosmo^I suppose so
19:21:03Cosmo^I figured that if I used it I would end up turning it off by accident :)
19:21:03copperjust make sure to have it continue playing after you're done using it
19:21:13copperyou can turn it off actually
19:21:19copperuh, wait
19:21:25coppernow I'm not sure
19:21:32Cosmo^I've introduced the seed of doubt
19:21:59copper "Benchmarks can be resumed if you accidentally load a plugin, or turn off your player, as long as the log file (/battery_bench.txt) is not deleted."
19:22:07Cosmo^ah ha
19:22:29copperI guess that means you do need to manually resume the benchmark after turning it back on
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19:23:22Cosmo^yeah, I'd clearly still forget to do that :)
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19:59:31n1swell, it depends on the goal of the bench, if you want to make it repeatable you don't really want to cause extra rebuffers and spinups assuming a disk
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20:05:22 Nick DormantBrain is now known as SuperBrainAK (~andy@74.112.203.135)
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20:58:03Cosmo^by the way
20:58:14Cosmo^massive, massive ack to the people who wrote the rockbox cross compiler setup script
20:59:11lorenzo92kugel: I don't understand, did you mess up with the firmware patched code? it doesn't work anymore on R1 hum
20:59:26lorenzo92perhaps that happened after a cleanup, strange though!
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21:11:06lorenzo92by the way, as a generic question, do you think that the free() has to have a NULL sentinel or not? I'm still unsure about this...
21:14:46kugellorenzo92: no
21:15:04kugelfree(NULL) is fine
21:15:05lorenzo92kugel: indeed, I'm thinking about some issue for R1...
21:19:29lorenzo92it is necessarily a problem with R1's firmware parser -.-
21:19:54lorenzo92same firmware format, on R0 works perfectly, on R1 doesn't ^^
21:22:46lorenzo92kugel: oh! interesting, it's a matter of missing 3x \n in the header.......
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21:26:55Cosmo^anyone seen this error before on a build (probably a silly oversight on my part)
21:27:20Cosmo^libtlsf.a: could not read symbols: Archive has no index: run ranlib to add one
21:28:04gevaertsCosmo^: if you manage to reproduce that one, feel free to look into it
21:28:04Cosmo^ho ho, ok
21:28:04gevaertsIt's been happening on the build systems every now and then, but I've never had it myself
21:28:05Cosmo^well, I just saw that error on my build
21:28:08Cosmo^we'll see if it happens again
21:28:21gevaertsSo anyway, remove libtlsf.a (or a full make clean) and try again
21:28:39Cosmo^I'll have a dig, let me see if I can reproduce
21:31:01Cosmo^no, even just a remake without a clean was fine
21:33:57lorenzo92kugel: great ! I fixed the problem on R1, I need now to see whether these extra 3 bytes are handled by R0 too ^^
21:34:35lorenzo92may I push my modifications again on the same gerrit (once it has been cherry-picked)?
21:48:25 Quit Strife89 (Quit: Vamoose!)
21:50:29kugellorenzo92: no
21:51:00kugellorenzo92: you just push against "HEAD:refs/for/master", gerrit will handle it
21:51:23kugelif you amend a commit and push again gerrit will update the existing task
21:53:35lorenzo92indeed, I just wanted to ask what if I reused the same change-id, but after all it's another change...
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22:28:27kugellorenzo92: did you upload a change?
22:29:15lorenzo92kugel: not yet, I'm still fixing actually...
22:35:15lorenzo92kugel: done fixing, I'm going just to test on R0 and then I'll commit
22:35:58 Quit y4n (Quit: coob ov vood?)
22:46:14lorenzo92kugel: g#616
22:46:16fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #616 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/616 : 3ypr0-ypr1 firmware tools fix by Lorenzo Miori (changes/16/616/1)
22:47:00lorenzo92i did not change much, just a padding function ;)
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23:08:38fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision 5ef1e2d, 217 builds, 20 clients.
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23:15:27fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Build round completed after 408 seconds.
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