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#rockbox log for 2013-09-20

00:09:52 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 24.0/20130909203154])
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03:45:05 Join Torne [0] (~torne@rockbox/developer/Torne)
03:46:53Tornei don't really know why rolo doesn't work to load the of on pp ipods
03:47:08[Saint]Torne: I found a couple of posts from you indicating that RoLo is *not* expected to work with the Apple OF. For that reason is this? Can it be overcome?
03:47:21Torneit's not expected to work because it doesnt' work and nobody knows why
03:47:22[Saint]*for what
03:47:31Torneit reliably, consistently doesn't work :)
03:47:37Torneso, yeah. expectations
03:47:53[Saint]I can get diagmode and diskmode working.
03:47:57[Saint]But not the OF.
03:47:59Torneit may be reklated to the longstanding reboot bugs on pp ipods
03:48:07[Saint]Hmmm.
03:48:10Tornewhere it falsely thinks battery is dead
03:48:20Tornebecause of some state in ram soewhere
03:48:40[Saint]Trying to RoLo the OF stals at "RoLo Executing..."
03:48:48[Saint]*stalls
03:49:04Tornewell not really :)
03:49:10Tornei imagine it just crashed
03:49:21Tornebut after having overwritten our vectors
03:49:33Tornethe apple vecotrs aren't much good for debug :)
03:50:02Tornereverse the flash bootloader fully sometime to deduce wghat state the hw shiould be in\
03:50:14Tornei truied but that cofde sucks hard
03:50:30Tornelots of fun refs to pp chips we dont know exist etc
03:50:37[Saint]I can get the iPod to Rolo into diskmode, but I rather suspect it isn't "set up right"...the backlight stays on and it only connects as a high-speed device.
03:51:13Torneyou mean full speed
03:51:28Tornehigh spreed is what you want :)
03:51:48 Quit rdn (Remote host closed the connection)
03:51:57[Saint]Gah. I do, yes. Sorry, I confuse the two.
03:52:04Torneit alkl expects the hw to be in known state from flash bootloadr
03:52:17Tornesorry for terrible typing, rsi issues
03:52:42[Saint]Not a problem.
03:53:36Tornewe just dont really know the full details of the of'
03:53:44Torneof's enmvironment
03:53:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:54:01Torneit has a ram block it uses to pass info between binaries
03:54:03[Saint]So there's no technical limitation as to why RoLoing the OF couldn't work...it just...doesn't.
03:54:12Torneand to handle suspend
03:54:19Torneno, of course not
03:54:43Tornetheres never anything stoppibng us purtting the hw back how it was
03:54:56Tornewe just dint know whiuch part of how it was ids important
03:55:09*[Saint] nods
03:55:36[Saint]Thank you for your input. It is valued.
03:55:47Tornei guessed issues were caused by the ram block for state
03:56:06Tornebut i cleared it explicitlky in a bubnch of ways and it didnt seem to help
03:56:23Tornetyrying to fix the poweron false low bat bug
03:56:31[Saint]I guess I'll poke RoLo so that it rejects apple_os.ipod
03:56:42Tornecould do.\
03:56:48[Saint]or, anything that isn't rockbox.ipod or diskmode or diagmode, I guess.
03:57:43 Part Torne
03:58:13[Saint]diagmode is quite useful, I might even look at the possibility of splitting the image out from ROM on-device.
04:00
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04:31:38[Saint]Oh, here's something else I was wondering:
04:32:16[Saint]Why doesn't bufflib reclaim available buffer when the buffer is replenished?
04:32:48[Saint]It seems to the buffer is only expanded when playback is stopped/restarted.
04:32:58[Saint]*that the
04:35:35[Saint](slightly related: not that it matters much at all - I managed to get the audio buffer on an iPod Video to 59.1MB by tweaking a few settings here and there)
04:37:00[Saint](which means the Rockbox is only using 4.9MB total)
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04:58:36*[Saint] is going to attempt to cram a 512GB Crucial mSATA SSD into an iPod Classic ("Fat" 160GB CE-ATA model)
04:59:27[Saint]I also got a 1.2A batter I'm hoping to cram in there as well, but it might be /juuuuuuuuuust/ a little bit too large to get in there.
04:59:49[Saint]I think I can trim the space required off the PCB, though.
04:59:58[Saint]*battery
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05:50:39[Saint]Can someone please tell me if this is the "right" fix for flashsplit?
05:51:06[Saint]I was getting:
05:51:36[Saint]http://pastebin.com/HstkRZiH
05:52:14[Saint]So I had a look at flashsplit.c and added "#include <stdint.h>", now it works fine.
05:52:30[Saint]IS there another "correct-er" way to handle this?
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07:01:26[Saint]What tool(s) do people use for batch raplaygain calculation/tagging on Linux?
07:01:33[Saint]whoops...c/p fail.
07:01:45[Saint](still a valid question though :))
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10:55:02jlbiasinipamaury: another trivial keymaps fix g#622
10:55:05fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #622 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/622 : 3fuze+/keymaps: Add action_std_cancel to bookmark and recording screen by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/22/622/1)
10:56:41fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision c40a821, 217 builds, 16 clients.
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10:59:15jlbiasinithanks
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10:59:55copperlebellium: IIRC your themes cause USB problems? If so, have you tried anything in particular to alleviate the problem?
11:00
11:03:00lebelliumcopper: yep they cause USB issues. And I didn't find anything to fix, even partly, those issues. I usually revert back to cabbiev2 before plugging my devices to computer.
11:03:50coppergot one report of USB problems with one of my latest themes
11:04:13copperI guess one report is too anecdotal, but still
11:04:33fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Build round completed after 472 seconds.
11:05:55lebelliumOn Fuze+?
11:06:11copperyup
11:06:16copperer
11:06:16copperno
11:06:19copperiPod Video
11:07:22copperwhat stands out from samsung-like is the number of conditionals and sub-images
11:07:56copperwhat stands out from Googley is the number of conditionals and unused viewports
11:08:42copperI wonder if any of those facts are relevant in this matter
11:10:33lebelliumI don't know, but it looks like that the issue with my themes are due to some memory corruption. It's a Rockbox problem, I won't simplify my themes because of that :)
11:17:54copperif the theme upload system allowed multiple .cfg file in the archive, I could simplify my themes a lot and just offer alternative .cfg files
11:18:13copperwith much fewer conditionals and no unused viewports
11:18:50copperright now I could rename .cfg files into .txt files and ask users to rename them themselves, but meh
11:18:58copperthat would be hardly convenient
11:19:31copperer, multiple .wps / .fms / .sbs files
11:20:48coppermeh, that would be too many files
11:21:11copperlike, 4 sets of each (2 different behaviors, times 2 different font sizes)
11:24:25coppertimes 7 variants, times 2 platforms :-/
11:26:37coppertargets*
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14:25:58copper[Saint]: replaygain scanning on Linux: caudec -g *.flac
14:26:05copperhttp://caudec.outpost.fr/
14:26:25[Saint]I need it for mp3.
14:26:31coppersame
14:26:47copper-g for replaygain tags, -G album for mp3gain type gain
14:27:21[Saint]Aha. Does it add actual replaygain tags, or alter the audio itself ala mp3gain?
14:27:37copper"-g" only adds replaygain tags in TXXX frames
14:28:00copper"-G album" runs mp3gain, except it does it on several tracks at once (so it's a lot faster)
14:28:01[Saint]I'll have a look, thanks.
14:28:29copperer, "faster" than just running mp3gain manually
14:28:39copper-g and -G are equally fast
14:28:58[Saint]Is there a flag to set the reference level?
14:29:04[Saint]If not, what is the value?
14:29:17copperreplaygain's default, 89dB
14:29:33[Saint]Excellent. Thank you.
14:29:53copperor, you can use foobar2000 with wine
14:29:58[Saint]To make this conversation on-topic, have you considered adding this to the "Useful Tools" page on our wiki?
14:30:12copperhmmm, no I haven't
14:30:15[Saint]I think you should.
14:30:34[Saint]I you ditched your account, or don't have/want one, I could add it.
14:30:38[Saint]*if you
14:31:01coppernah I still have it
14:31:28[Saint]It would be nice if you added it here: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/UsefulTools
14:31:45[Saint]It seems to be a fairly simple, yet diverse, tool.
14:32:09copperit got feature creep though
14:32:18copperI need to rewrite the whole thing, sometime
14:38:31copper[Saint]: er, where should I put caudec? "CD Ripping" or "Other Tools"? LAME is in the former even though it's not a ripping tool per se, and neither is caudec
14:38:52[Saint]"Other Tools", I would say.
14:39:02coppermaybe I can rename "CD Ripping" to "CD Ripping / Encoding"
14:39:35copperor create an "Encoding" category of its own, with LAME and caudec in it?
14:39:52copperer
14:40:03coppercaudec does more than encoding, so I guess "other tools" it is then
14:40:06[Saint]Ah, yes, that sounds like the plan.
14:41:11copperor, "Audio Tools", right before "Video Tools"
14:41:51copperwhat qualifies as "freeware"?
14:42:07copperanything that's free as in beer?
14:49:22[Saint]yes.
14:49:46[Saint]free as in beer, not necessarily as in freedom.
14:50:32copperhttp://www.rockbox.org/wiki/UsefulTools#Audio_Tools
14:51:09copperhmm, I'll add foobar2000 to the list
14:51:14*[Saint] puts on his best Mr. Burns persona:
14:51:18[Saint]*excellent*
14:52:37copperand I'll add a note about linux and OS X support of it with wine
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14:59:48copperdone
15:00
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15:34:51copper[Saint]: IIRC, Rockbox supports Replaygain tags in TXXX frames
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15:35:30copperfoobar2000, DeaDBeeF and others do too
15:51:23[Saint]it does, yes.
15:52:18*[Saint] just noticed he hadn't set his iPod Classic to 48000Hz
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15:54:07[Saint]My collection is approximately 50% 48000Hz and 50% 44100Hz (foobar2000 tells me {rather helpfully} that its a 48.2/51.8% split)
15:54:47[Saint]So, I guess it makes some sense to play back the 48000Hz stuff in its native samplerate where possible.
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15:55:00[Saint]I had forgotten about this setting.
15:55:55[Saint]I suppose it makes sense to use 48000Hz even if only one or two albums/tracks of thousands are encoded as such.
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15:57:23[Saint]AFAIUI, there is no additional cost to playing 44100Hz audio with the samplerate at 48000Hz.
15:59:24[Saint]The first time I tested 48000Hz playback in Rockbox on my iPod Classic there was a rather noticeable audio glitch, ...but that doesn't appear to happen anymore. So, yay.
16:00
16:02:54lebelliumI thought this setting was for recording only?
16:04:12copperno, I believe it was designed initially to accomodate Opus collections
16:04:19gevaertsIt's fairly new
16:04:29[Saint]lebellium: Nope.
16:04:48[Saint]The recording and playback frequency selection are independant of each other.
16:05:13copper[Saint]: where do you get your 48kHz material from, in such large numbers?
16:05:31[Saint]I lot of it is from what.cd
16:05:37[Saint]*A lot
16:05:51copperwhy would they resample CD audio to 48kHz? o_O
16:06:21copperer, I seem to remember that some stupid ass "scene" groups used to do that
16:07:17lebelliumI don't understand why they would extract their CD in 48kHz on what.cd...
16:07:40[Saint]I just said in *-community to evilnick that I didn't set out to grap 48000Hz stuff specifically, it just kinda happened...I have no idea of the source.
16:07:47[Saint]*grab
16:08:14[Saint]The stuff I've transcoded is all 44100Hz
16:09:13copperanyway, maybe ask saratoga if 44.1->48 is better than 48->44.1 or vice-versa
16:09:18[Saint]I guess there's some audio that is legitimately 48000Hz, and rather a lot that was upsampled for no reason other than higher numbers are better.
16:09:27copperI think he's the one who ported the new resampler
16:09:45[Saint]I think it was JhMikes
16:10:06[Saint]errr...possibly.
16:10:21copperthough I guess setting playback to 48kHz makes more sense if a lot of your content was already resampled from 44.1 to 48
16:11:06copperso that 100% of your content only ever gets resampled once
16:13:10n1s[Saint]: there's an additional cost to play back 44.1kHz at 48kHz, upsampling and more data for dsp to process means more cpu utilization
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16:55:00funmanKotH: any luck with the Cowon?
16:55:44KotHfunman: yes and no. i'm in the OF RE stage. but i didnt have any time to work on it this week
16:56:00KotHfunman: ESA, Uni and ELCE take their toll ^^'
16:56:21funmanKotH: Well RE can be long but very rewardful, good luck!
16:56:28KotHdomo
16:56:33KotHi dont want to fully RE the stuff
16:56:44KotHjust want to see how the hw is setup in order not to fry anything
16:56:58KotHafter that i'll move to porting
16:57:06funmanfirst stuff that helps is buttons and visual feedback (button led or screen backlight)
16:57:19[Saint]Point pamaury at the thing.
16:57:24funman[Saint]: :)
16:57:33[Saint]As I understand it, stuff just reverse engineers itself in his presence.
16:57:41KotH[Saint]: he is already helping me :)
16:57:55[Saint]He's some form of RE-deity.
16:57:55funman[Saint]: the several years of experience help a lot
16:59:21[Saint]Indeed so.
16:59:57*KotH has several years of experience in watching other people work
17:00
17:00:29[Saint]KotH: What device are you working on? I perused the logs, but maybe I'm blind.
17:00:47KotHcowon d20
17:01:08*[Saint] can't not immediately think of DnD
17:01:08KotHnice device, but the UI is an abomination
17:01:17KotHDnD?
17:01:34KotHoh. :-D
17:01:38[Saint]Dungeons and Dragons.
17:02:02[Saint]Oh, hey...Hmmmm. That is a rather cute little device.
17:02:15KotHbuy one, help me porting ;)
17:02:58[Saint]It reminds me of an iPod Nano 6/6.5/7G's bigger brother.
17:03:15[Saint] /slightly/ bigger brother. :)
17:03:28KotHyeah, just /slightly/ bigger :)
17:03:40gevaertsIt reminds *me* of the D2 :)
17:05:45[Saint]The screen not being flash with the backing looks a little weird to me.
17:05:50[Saint]*flush
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17:09:01KotHfrom the way they build it, it's rather cheap
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17:09:34KotHi guess they wanted to upgrade the d2 for some reason or other, but desided to give it a new designation
17:09:40KotHdecided*
17:12:06KotHfunman: fun stuff: cowon uses quicktime, probably for video coding
17:12:54funmanKotH: inside the player, or in a PC suite?
17:13:11KotHinside the player
17:13:25funmancrazy!
17:13:40KotHa cursory look at the binary revealed something that looks like a library structure and one of those seems to be quicktime
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17:55:09saratogai don't think 44.1k -> 48k -> 44.1k is much different, should each be roughly as efficient and introduce about the same distortion
17:55:15saratogaopps
17:55:31saratoga44.1k -> 48k or 48k -> 44.1k is what i meant
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18:33:13gradienthello all. i have a question. rockbox doesn't see microSD card memory, what can i do?
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18:57:31AlexPwhat file system?
18:57:41AlexPoh, he left
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20:11:55zipaaahi
20:12:44zipaaanoone online?
20:13:16gevaertsNo
20:13:26zipaaa:/
20:13:52gevaertsIf you have a question, just ask, and if someone knows the answer they'll reply
20:14:24zipaaaI wanted to ask if there is information on samsung yp-q3
20:14:36zipaaai'v goolged time and time
20:15:47gevaertshttp://www.rockbox.org/wiki/CreativeZENStyleM300 mentions it, but in a rather vague and indefinite way...
20:16:04gevaertsI don't think I've seen much discussion about it here, if at all
20:17:02gevaertsYou might want to talk to pamaury though when he's online, he's the one who knows most about those STMP3xxx chips
20:19:10zipaaaim intrested to modify/hack my player, i'v just discover that samsung release their firmware source, but that one of Q3 not released yet
20:22:59zipaaaim tryng to reverse original firmware, but i cant do much :/
20:23:34*gevaerts can't help with that
20:23:38gevaertsNot my area...
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20:24:21zipaaa:S other ppl online?
20:25:04gevaertsIf you hang around for a while, some of the people who are good at that sort of thing are bound to turn up
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20:27:38[Saint]I guess it depends how different it is to the YP-R* players.
20:29:25zipaaano info anywhere
20:30:47[Saint]Hardware information for new ports is usually obtained the good old fashioned way. Dissassembly.
20:31:09[Saint]http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/NewPort
20:32:09[Saint]The above link describes the processes involved in getting a new port off the ground, somewhat.
20:32:43zipaaaim reading..
20:33:22[Saint]Bits of it do seem overly harsh, but that is primarily due to the level of work involved ranging from "really hard" to "exceptionally f***ing hard". :)
20:34:33[Saint]Whereas some ports can have very similar hardware and composition to an existing port, and only relatively minor changes are needed.
20:35:29zipaaammm
20:35:51[Saint]In some instances you might find that someone has already done a lot of the major legwork for you. In others you might find you need to start completely from scratch in many areas.
20:36:09zipaaai think if samsung will release the source (like R0) it will be easy
20:37:59zipaaafound!
20:39:00zipaaa"BTW, the Q3 uses the same chip than the YP-P3 (Telechips TCC7901)"
20:39:07zipaaaand found photo!!
20:39:15zipaaahttp://www.kharkovforum.com/showthread.php?t=1908096
20:41:56[Saint]so you're likely safe from bricking with tcctool, which is nice.
20:42:39zipaaai can start a new page on rockbox add that info?
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20:50:55zipaaasee you tomorrow i will continue
20:50:58zipaaabye
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20:55:44*[Saint] has decided that he rather likes the failsafe wps and icons, in white on black with 22pt Ubuntu Condensed font on his iPod Video
20:57:28[Saint]Ooooh, I remember now! That's right. I was going to ask:
20:58:07[Saint]What is the 34 byte 'test' allocation in bufflib?
20:58:48[Saint]Every other allocation is easy enough to work out, but this one confuses me. I have no idea what it is.
20:59:07gevaertsIt's mainly there to confuse curious people :)
20:59:39gevaertsYou can only see it if you deliberately ignore the "Keep out!" instructions!
21:00
21:01:04[Saint]...whatever it is, it seems to be irrelevant to functionality.
21:01:21[Saint]It can be deallocated with no ill effect.
21:01:31gevaertsIt improves stability
21:01:49[Saint]And then if I force a rebuffer, I get a whole extra 34 bytes of audio buffer!
21:01:54gevaertsYou're now so busy trying to figure out why it's there you're not looking at areas where you can do *real* damage
21:02:14[Saint]<dramatic reverb>
21:02:56*[Saint] requires the presence of a kugel
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22:37:46FevethHello?
22:38:21FevethLooking for help with a screenless MP3 player I am planning on porting Rockbox to.
22:39:10wodz[Saint]: This alloc is as the name implies is for testing. You can force deallocation which triggers whole chain of action with move callbacks.
22:39:28wodzFeveth: What hardware it is?
22:39:32Fevethhttp://pastebin.com/pdUTdzvA Namely, I need to find some more info if anyone has some.
22:39:46[Saint]http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/NewPort
22:40:56FevethIt's a player which has a ROM partition that labels itself as a CDROM and a main storage partition.
22:41:11FevethI've no idea what this is, besides a fake iPod Shuffle 2G.
22:42:22FevethIt has a 3.5mm headset jack, and a miniUSB port.
22:42:27FevethNot micro, mini.
22:42:35FevethI've taken pictures.
22:42:53FevethJust a moment, I'm tossing them on the net and redoing the paste.
22:43:01wodzfirst you need to figure out what this SoC actually is
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22:44:27[Saint]Indeed. Ascertain if it is even worth continuing.
22:45:44FevethIt has no screen. I want to continue and port Rockbox to this thing as a proof-of-concept that it can indeed support screenless players.
22:45:55gevaertsToo late!
22:45:57FevethThis will require voicefiles for everything.
22:46:02gevaertsThere's the iaudio m3 :)
22:46:04wodzFeveth: From the quick google query this is 8bit mcu + DSP most probably. No go for rb in this case.
22:46:14FevethWhy?
22:46:33wodzrb assumes 32bit almost everywhere
22:46:48FevethWell. I would rewrite the code either way.
22:46:48FevethSo.
22:46:51FevethMore info is needed.
22:46:55FevethMeanwhile, I'm AFK.
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22:49:59[Saint]That's a *massive* re-write.
22:50:02wodzFeveth: You may try to ask the manufacturer of the SoC for datasheet. They seems to disclose datasheets for some of their chips
22:51:05[Saint]I can't actually find this series SoC on their site.
22:51:20[Saint]Only SH88*
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22:59:41wodzSince their most advanced SoC is '51 based I would be quite surprised to see something more powerful
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23:30:35Feveth http://pastebin.com/GP5ivAdt Updated the paste.
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23:54:26Fevethhttp://pastebin.com/GP5ivAdt Nobody got any info?
23:56:56gevaertsSH86270P064 gets some google hits
23:57:17gevaertsMy bet is one of those 8 bit + DSP things
23:58:20gevaertshttp://forum.s1mp3.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9928 mentions it, and that's from 2009, which does reinforce that feeling

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