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#rockbox log for 2013-10-06

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08:01:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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09:05:48 Join kdelwat [0] (~smuxi@polyme6.lnk.telstra.net)
09:06:06kdelwatDoes Rockbox work on iPod Nano 5th generation?
09:09:26copperdoesn't look like it
09:09:34copperhttp://www.rockbox.org/wiki/TargetStatus
09:13:07kdelwatIt says that it supports iPod 5 and 5.5, I thought it could be referring to the Nano there.
09:20:37 Join stoffel [0] (~quassel@pD9E40783.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
09:33:33coppernope, they're completely different beasts
09:37:50kdelwatThanks
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10:01:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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10:23:24diginet1why does the wikipedia page for rockbox say that it is based on uclinux? I was under the impression rockbox was entirely its own design
10:25:34bertriksome ignorant person edited it, it's not based on uclinux
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10:26:16diginet1bertrik: yeah, I didn't think so
10:26:50diginet1urgh, I'm so sick of the myopia that linux users can sometimes have, thinking that nothing outside of Windows and Unix exists
10:29:04bertrikI see it's been corrected already
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10:29:40diginet1oh, good
10:33:05Ketturithere aren't many operating systems that are widely used outside of embedded systems
10:33:29Ketturiand iven embedded world linux is dominating
10:33:34Ketturieven*
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10:34:43Ketturibtw, have anybody done anything for usb audio stack?
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17:07:38wodz[Saint]: (log) I benchmarked new compressor on coldfire and PP. The results are not quite inline with yours. on CF the impact is quite noticeable. On PP it is slower then HEAD (as I would expect) but not that much.
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17:07:59wodz*than
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18:26:48diginet1is it possible for an individual to buy those Ingenic chips?
18:32:03KetturiI presume in bigger quantities
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18:35:11diginet1I really wish the openhardware rockbox player project could be revived
18:35:27diginet1problem is, the only chips you get for reasonable prices are ARM stuff, and I hate ARM :(
18:35:39diginet1ARM isn't exactly what I would call "open source friendly"
18:36:17B4gderand which CPU core is?
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18:36:43gevaertsopenrisc ;)
18:37:14B4gderhaha, true
18:37:15diginet1B4gder: well, sure the ISA is, it's just so much of ARM stuff is mired in NDAs and undocumented weirdness
18:37:20diginet1the extensions I mean
18:37:35diginet1Ingenic seems to be somewhat better about providing docs to developers
18:37:48B4gderthey use MIPS, and I don't think that's much more open source
18:37:52diginet1gevaerts: I wish I could use a softcore, but wouldn't an FPGA be far too power hungry?
18:38:02B4gderso we're talking core licensee, not core
18:38:25diginet1B4gder: well MIPS at least won't sue you for making an HDL clone like ARM, Ltd. has threatened to do many times
18:39:08B4gderwell, i bet you can also clone an Alpha and PA-risc with little risk
18:39:33B4gderbut yes, MIPS will do that
18:39:38B4gderif you're not hiding in China
18:39:46diginet1B4gder: dunno about HPPA, but the Chinese have already done that with the Alpha
18:39:57diginet1B4gder: what about all the MIPS-ish cores on opencores?
18:40:40B4gderbut perhaps most importantly, MIPS lost against ARM for a reason...
18:41:19diginet1why?
18:41:29diginet1and it hasn't really "lost" MIPS is used in different markets
18:41:38B4gderhaha
18:41:54diginet1anyway, you could argue that ARM "lost" against the V850
18:42:00B4gderthey're used in exactly the same margets
18:42:04B4gdermarkets
18:42:13*B4gder stops this off-topic thing now, sorry
18:42:18diginet1yeah haha
18:42:21diginet1anyway
18:42:34KetturiWhy not use atmel 32bit xmegas |3
18:42:44diginet1Ketturi: not sure if they're fast enough
18:42:55diginet1do they have DDR controllers?
18:44:08Ketturi(that was purely joke)
18:44:34diginet1ahhhhh haha
18:44:41diginet1AVR32 is a cool architecture though
18:45:08diginet1it would be actually really cool to use OpenRISC if power consumption were not an issue
18:46:34Ketturibut anyway, fully open source rockbox player would be cool, but there is already too many players and whole thing would be just expensive geek toy for rockbox users
18:47:19diginet1Ketturi: are there any players currently being sold/still manufactured which run it without issue?
18:49:56Ketturiwell not realy, but is rockbox popular enough anyway, and mp3 players are slowly dying away because of mobile phones
18:50:42diginet1sure, but I for one rather care about audio quality, which phones are more than often woefully lacking
18:51:12diginet1it's unfortunate that you have to choose between either a full-on computer, or discontinued mp3 players
18:52:04n1ssome supported sansas are still sold
18:52:21Ketturibut with right persons to design and make product, and other to get money and resources to manufacture it... why not
18:52:36Ketturimaybe kickstarter product or similar
18:52:39diginet1the i.MX28 series chips are like $5 a pop, DDR is super cheap nowadays, QVGA LCDs can be had for peanuts, I think it could be done for under $75 if you tried, at the right volume
18:53:17n1sdiginet1: problem is probably finding buyers
18:53:41diginet1n1s: if it is cheap enough I think people would buy it
18:53:51diginet1does Rockbox support playback of 24-bit audio? I mean, as in if this theoretically DAP had a DAC capable of 24-bit, could Rockbox support that?
18:53:52Ketturiflash is still somewhat expensive
18:54:02diginet1so use SD cards
18:54:05n1sanyway this isn't really #rockbox talk, more suited to -community
18:54:10B4gdermaking something small, cheap and pretty enough that would attract more than just people in #rockbox isn't that easy
18:54:41copperwhat's the use of 24 bit sampling on a DAP?
18:54:42n1sdiginet1: rockbox dithers or truncates down to 16 bits
18:55:04Ketturiand, rockbox user interface is not frendly to many regular people
18:55:06diginet1 n1s: would it be non-trivial to support native 24-bit audio then?
18:55:57n1sdiginet1: it sure wouldn't be non-trivial, but doable on hardware that supports it
18:56:12copperthat's a double negative
18:56:13diginet1hmmm
18:56:41diginet1yeah I don't think there is hardware that supports 24-bit audio yet, but a player that did would be nice
18:57:18copperthere sure is
18:57:31Ketturievery time I have lend my ipod to somebody, they have been like "how the heck you use this"
18:57:31diginet1copper: oh? which ones?
18:57:47copperFiiO X3, iBasso DX100/DX50, iRiver AK120
18:57:55n1sright s/non-//
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18:58:12diginet1copper: hmm
18:58:27copperiRiver AK100 too
18:59:09coppereven the DAC in the iPod Classic supports 24 bit
18:59:20diginet1does the software support it though?
18:59:28n1sKetturi: that's because they are used to a different UI probably. I managed to explain to my friends in a few seconds how to operate the filebrowser and que tracks at a party with no issues
18:59:43copperdiginet1: in the aforementionned DAPs, yes
18:59:54diginet1n1s: exactly, I think people are far too used to too much eye candy
19:00
19:00:09Ketturi"Is this some kind of old DOS?" :P
19:00:34copperdiginet1: http://www.fiio.com.cn/products/index.aspx?MenuID=105026016
19:00:42diginet1URGH, I *hate* microSD
19:00:48diginet1what is the deal with the obsession with it?
19:00:53copperhttp://www.ibasso.com/en/products/show.asp?ID=81
19:01:01diginet1especially in stuff like tablets, it's just retarded
19:01:14copperfirmwares on those reportedly suck though
19:01:30copperdiginet1: expandable storage is retarded?
19:01:40diginet1copper: no I mean, why not just use regular SD?
19:01:52diginet1I get it on some stuff
19:02:07diginet1but it's getting ridiculous, like why can't a 10-inch tablet use regular SD?
19:02:41Ketturidiginet1: I have many physically broken SD:s, their plastics are much less tough than small microSD:s
19:03:04diginet1Ketturi: really? i've never come close to that
19:03:09diginet1'course, I still prefer CF even :P
19:03:34Ketturia microSD can be used with adapter in any SD device, but not in another way
19:04:04diginet1it's more that they are physically small and very easy to lose
19:06:57KetturiWell they can be put to SD adapters, and plastic SD cases
19:10:03*Ketturi still preferers HDD especially in music players
19:12:06Ketturibut yah, anybody working on usb audio for rockbox?
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19:12:53KetturiAbility to use player as external DAC would be very needed functionality
19:15:38copperI think the Hifimans are able to do that, though Rockbox has nothing to do with it
19:15:47copper(they run Rockbox too though)
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19:18:35n1si think pamauri did some work on usb audio
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19:55:32lorenzo92pamaury: indeed are not the same :) I'm just asking you if there is some problem in your code? I cannot compile it otherwise...
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22:17:08lorenzo92kugel: I'm having a problem when it comes to create the final apk for android...apkbuilder does not exist anymore?
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23:00:04kugelG#635 looks interesting
23:00:07fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #635 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/635 : 3Add a new text input method by Ecce (changes/35/635/1)
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23:39:55diginet1what parts of rockbox do you guys think could most use rewriting? from what I've read on the wiki, the font system looks like it could use some reworking
23:40:20diginet1I had been working on bitmap-based font rendering engine for another project that might work well with rockbox
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23:45:56pamaurydiginet1: I think the radio code could use a rewrite
23:46:04pamaurythe database too but it's a lot of work
23:46:15diginet1what does it use a database?
23:46:31diginet1but speaking of database, using some sort of relational model to organize music would be really cool :P
23:46:52pamaurythe database let you find tracks by album, author, ...
23:47:59lebelliumwould be great if the database could display the albums per year and not only by alphabetical order
23:48:31diginet1pamaury: ahhh. . .
23:48:50diginet1I could look into that, I wonder if there are any database libraries intended for embedded applications
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23:49:19pamauryanyway, going to bed, see you
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