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#rockbox log for 2013-11-08

00:00:21DuperManoh man! the zen supports regular sd, and it handles preformatted sdxc cards
00:00:34DuperManso we can have 256gb probably
00:01:40DuperManalthough original firmware caps the card's available space at 32gb iirc. formatting it on a pc works but the indexer in the original firmware lovessss to crash
00:01:55 Join wodz [0] (~wodz@87-207-223-0.dynamic.chello.pl)
00:02:42DuperManwaiiiiiiiiiiit. which "creative zen"? there are also two of those ><
00:03:35pamaurywhen I say Creative ZEN, it's the just the "ZEN"
00:03:41wodzpamaury: According to disassembly different bytes after descramble are padding. So your tool seems to be right :-) I wonder what will happen if you change random padding with 0 padding.
00:03:54DuperManhttp://www.amazon.com/Creative-Portable-Media-Player-Black/dp/B000UV4EU6/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1383865379&sr=1-4&keywords=zen this is the one I can get.
00:04:09DuperManand I know, but there are two "just the zen"s
00:04:10DuperMan:)
00:04:15DuperManlol@creative
00:04:30pamaurythe sound quality is good but not epic iirc, if you understand something about audio, you can lookup the Sansa Fuze+ thread in our forum (New Port section), there are audio test with RMAA
00:04:43wodzpamaury: What is also interesting is the fact that ADEC image seems to support dumping arbitrary memory region :-)
00:04:49DuperManwith their company name their naming conventions are downright absurd
00:05:08pamaurywodz: great news
00:05:52wodzpamaury: ah and the clock is configured differently than in asm source but both configurations make sense according to DS.
00:05:53pamauryDuperMan: I'm not aware of two "just" ZEN ?!
00:06:18DuperManchecked out the amazon liink?
00:06:39pamaurywodz: you were quite busy in the mean time ^^
00:06:46pamauryDuperMan: checking, my internet connection is very slow here
00:07:06DuperMan:) no sweat
00:08:41pamauryweird, it's different from mine, I mean only the buttons are: they exchange the top and bottom buttons
00:10:12DuperManspooky. not 100% sure I linked to the one I'll own though - just nearest amazon match. no touchscreen right?
00:10:25pamauryno
00:11:10DuperManchecking if they did 'major under the hood overhauls'... BING TIME:P
00:11:59pamauryso there might be two physical version of the ZEN, just the buttons are slightly different ?
00:16:24DuperMantrue, though there IS another zen just zen from a different generation of zens
00:16:37pamaurydo you have a link ?
00:17:12DuperManfinding it as we speak
00:18:19DuperManhttp://support.creative.com/Products/ProductDetails.aspx?catID=213&subCatID=1017&prodID=11519&prodName=ZEN%2020GB&subCatName=ZEN%20Series&CatName=MP3+Players&VARSET=prodfaq:PRODFAQ_11519,VARSET=CategoryID:213
00:18:35DuperManlong link. it's just a big zen micro
00:19:11pamauryindeed
00:19:20pamaury2005, that's ancient age ;)
00:20:33DuperManamazon lists the 'new' pebble inspired zen as 2004 xD
00:21:04pamaurythe one device I would like to get but cannot find is the ZEN MX
00:21:50DuperManwhy it?
00:22:07pamauryfor completeness
00:22:36DuperManI have dead iriver h340 and iaudio x5l btw - iriver ; no lcd. iaudio ; can't figure out how to attach the battery :)
00:22:47wodzhttp://allegro.pl/creative-zen-mx-8-gb-i3685564766.html http://allegro.pl/creative-zen-mx-16gb-radio-sd-czarny-tanio-i3692645786.html
00:22:52DuperManah. no, nomad jukebox zen series is what you need!!!
00:22:57DuperMan;)
00:23:10wodzpamaury: this one?
00:23:45DuperManbtw, considered a secondary partition solution for dual boot?
00:24:06DuperMan150 zloty. dang, wish I was at Pol
00:24:14pamauryright, how much is that in euro ?
00:24:19DuperMan4
00:24:20DuperManlol
00:24:25pamauryif you buy it for me, I'll pay you back :)
00:24:31pamaurywodz: ^
00:24:36DuperMan~60 I think
00:24:38wodz1EUR is ~4PLN
00:24:58wodz4.13 currently
00:25:10DuperManwas about to correct to about 30. thought israeli sheqel exchange rates
00:25:20pamauryDuperMan: yes, technically it is possible to resize the OF partition and create a new one, just for rockbox
00:25:43wodzpamaury: which of the two you prefer?
00:26:01pamaurybut the partition table is non-standard, you cannot do it with linux or windows
00:26:22DuperManleave the of with 1gb - it was never good for anything besides formatting sd cards to the wrong size and not indexing them
00:26:30pamaury16Gb version seems better
00:26:50wodzpamaury: ok I can buy it for you
00:26:51DuperManhmmm... is running from the sd a dumb or mega dumb idea?
00:27:20pamaurywe do this on some players (like zen x-fi2), it's fine but has some drawbacks too
00:27:37DuperManbattery
00:27:54pamauryyou have to have a sd card, it's usually slower
00:28:41pamaurythe issue is how you choose how much you give to the OF and how you provide the user the possibility to resize it
00:28:55DuperManalways in my experience, oems always save costs on the sd reader
00:28:56pamaurywodz: thanks :)
00:29:01DuperManbottlenecks
00:29:18pamauryanyway, going to sleep
00:29:27wodzpamaury: bought
00:30:05DuperMannight pamaury. thanks for your work again!
00:30:08pamaurywodz: I can pay you back with paypal or bank transfer when you get it
00:30:23DuperManwodz: you sound smart. will porting to the kindle be feasible?
00:30:47wodznot really
00:30:55pamauryhaha, he is smart :)
00:33:21DuperMan:) got a blacklisted (long story, not a thief) kindle dx in dire need of love hehe
00:33:55DuperMandon't really agree though since it runs linux as is and was already thoroughly rooted, thinking putting the android port to good iif silly use
00:33:57DuperMan;)
00:34:55gevaertsIn which case you wouldn't need a kindle port in the first place
00:35:08wodzDuperMan: basically you can run rb on almost everything, the question is what for.
00:35:36DuperManw00t. the zen also came in pink :D for cheap undeserved hacker cred
00:35:38DuperManlol
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00:36:09DuperManhow thorough is the zvm support? got me itching to go rockbox once more:)
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00:44:07DuperManwait, mosaic should be supported?
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13:02:13pamaurygevaerts: do you know if we compile the timeout api in the simulator ?
13:02:25pamauryI'm running into a strange error when trying to compile the Zen X-Fi simulator
13:02:51pamauryapparently the button drivers needs the timeout api for headphone detection but it is not available
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13:17:46gevaertsI don't know much about the simulator
13:29:39gevaertsZagor: do you have some sort of idea when we'll get the tracker back?
13:30:06Zagorthis weekend, hopefully. I need to reinstall it.
13:30:10gevaertsOK
13:30:17gevaertsSounds good enough to me :)
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13:48:25pamauryZagor: can you upload bootloaders for me this afternoon ? I'll give you the links later
13:48:56Zagoryes, probably :)
13:52:41pamauryI don't like doing images for the simulator, that's my second lunch pause time which goes into this
13:55:45pamauryapparently I need to fix the simulator build for HAVE_HEADPHONE_DETECTION, I'm puzzled that no other target use it ?!
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13:58:39pamauryok I get it, I defined it in the wrong place, there is some config.h automagic
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14:08:45pamauryhum, git push is hanging here :(
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14:35:48pamauryZagor: do you know why gerrit is unreachable ?
14:36:12fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision 0c2ebbb, 240 builds, 35 clients.
14:36:13pamauryah now it's back, strange
14:43:23fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Build round completed after 432 seconds.
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18:09:05DuperManshit. pamaury ain't here xD
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19:17:27pamauryDuperMan: here I am
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19:19:52saratogaanyone around who can compile an APK ?
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19:25:59rocketnineandroid apk?
19:27:10gevaertssaratoga: I should be able to do that
19:27:23saratogaok i'll PM you
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20:10:23DuperManyo pamaury!
20:10:38DuperManhere with the gf, already up and running :))) amazing stuff
20:10:49DuperManmuch more stable than the ipod mini xD
20:11:01DuperManand 64gb sdxc is epic ;)
20:12:21DuperManfound a bug - backlight off leaves the screen unresponsive showing the last image before off was set
20:13:25DuperManso no way to shut the screen down currently, at best set brightness to it's lowest
20:13:35DuperMandunno if it was listed :)
20:13:55DuperManme thinks that's the real battery hogging issue, aye?
20:17:55pamauryyeah currently I don't put the lcd in standby mode, just put backlight off (honestly I don't know how spotted it, it should be very very black). But the cpu is running at top speed anyway so it's already a battery hog
20:18:14pamaurydid you use windows to format it ?
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20:19:56DuperManyes. but it doesn't set it like so for me mate
20:20:03DuperMandownloaded latest nightly from repo
20:20:16DuperMan... it leaves backlight on at I estimate 40%
20:20:32DuperManand you can't do anything as it won't update the screen
20:20:35DuperManlol
20:20:59DuperManlet me check again. what's the shortest way to get to a 'standby' type mode?
20:21:11DuperMansingle pushdown on power don't seem to cut it
20:21:40pamauryjust way, you can set the backlight timer in the options
20:22:37DuperManah. well, not working then :) waits with the backlight on but the image static, looking like a framebuffer issue. let me see exactly which model I have
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20:23:27pamaurylooks like a bug then, i'll check when i'm done with my dinner
20:24:06pamaurydid you use windows to install & reformat it ? I check on windows 7 and got a zero byte storage so Windows wouldn't reformat it, very strange
20:24:12pamaurysome report half the storage space ?!
20:24:15DuperMannp. def. didn't seem major but I'm too n00b :)
20:24:19DuperManindeed
20:24:26DuperMannoticed it this moment lol
20:24:52DuperManonly use the sd myself, but device should have 8gb yet formatted in fat to 4
20:25:06pamaurythere is something funny there :)
20:25:25DuperManI just assumed you left it aside for dual boot down the road xD
20:25:46DuperManme think the 8gb and 4gb models are more different than we know ;)
20:25:50pamauryyou back dual boot by holding "back" on boot, but you'll get an error since the storage is not formatted correctly
20:26:02pamauryyou *can
20:26:26DuperMan*not formatted at all, past the last sector of the fat32 partition:D
20:26:48DuperManalso, menu button does NOTHING
20:27:00pamauryI probably didn't map it to anything
20:27:11pamaurydoing keymap is boring and too trivial for my high level brain ;)
20:27:53DuperManmeh, 'target' option in debug hw info won't work
20:28:22DuperManlol so true. it's why I enjoy your monkey-work rather than learn to code on my own humanXD
20:28:24DuperManj/k
20:28:27pamauryman, you check everything! there is no target specific debug menu for the zen at the moment
20:28:52pamaurywe don't accept bug report in the debug menu lol
20:29:13pamaurydid you miss the "don't enter this menu warning" ? :p
20:29:20gevaertsWell, currently the bug tracker is down, so we don't accept bug reports at all :)
20:29:30DuperManhehe needs I sets them loggers at ready
20:29:36*pamaury thinks it's an evil plan of gevaerts
20:30:13DuperManare we github or launchpad or where? hehe
20:30:23DuperMankinda thikningggg.... git
20:30:25DuperManright?
20:31:00*gevaerts is confused
20:31:05gevaertsWe use git, yes
20:31:09gevaertsBut not github or launchpad
20:31:41DuperManah. privately owned spyware megacorporation of piracy yes?
20:31:43DuperMan<3
20:32:03DuperManbtw, stacks shows some 200-300% usage, good optimization there
20:32:04DuperMan;)
20:33:41DuperManohhhh man. you forgot to write yourself into the CREDITS
20:33:45DuperMan:( meh
20:34:32*gevaerts wonders what DuperMan is on about
20:36:15*DuperMan checks what allowing database to live in ram does
20:36:30DuperMangevaerts: better ask what I'm on usually :)
20:38:11DuperMananother bug: file properties never show. guess it's some plug-in a-missing
20:39:18pamauryDuperMan: are you sure ?
20:39:47pamauryyou must hold select for a second to reach file properties, it is indeed a plugin but I think it is enabled
20:39:52pamauryexcept if I forgot, of course
20:39:55DuperManyeah - tried both from database and file explorer, not that it should matter
20:40:15DuperManhmmmm.... I lack any and all plugins my friend :)
20:40:18DuperManso yeah, that
20:41:09pamauryah right, I disabled the plugins because some lack a keymap and don't compile
20:42:55pamaurythat's what happen when you beta test software :) thanks for the reports anyway
20:43:07DuperManhehe. thought about 'cherrystealing' some from another build but decided it's better to enjoy music
20:43:49DuperManwelcome, sorry for parsing logs through my addled psyche rather than upload them someplace "_
20:43:51DuperMan:)
20:43:52pamauryyou"re lucky, I enabled the codecs ;)
20:45:00DuperManrofl I KNOW XD
20:45:38*DuperMan seriously hates on himself for not coding well - such a waste
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20:54:30DuperManbbiab, ~30m
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22:58:17pamauryI figure we have a funny option with the ZEN: the ZEN MX is virtually the same and its firmware handles FAT as a primary storage. So *if* the ZEN MX firmware can be put on the ZEN, we could solve the storage problem trivially ^^
23:00
23:00:30lebelliumoh
23:00:32lebelliumgood news
23:01:09lebelliumbut why did they use a different filesystem on the Zen?
23:01:38lebelliumwhy didn't they use FAT?
23:02:04gevaertsIf you use mtp or similar, there's no good reason to use FAT
23:04:41lebelliumnot losing time developing a proprietary filesystem?
23:04:46 Quit amayer (Quit: Leaving)
23:04:59pamaurythey have it for a long time and fat is a pretty bad file system
23:06:33gevaertsIf you have to design a new filesystem and you have an afternoon to do it, it's *hard* to make it worse than FAT :)
23:06:59lebelliumso why does Rockbox use FAT?
23:07:42lebelliumonly for dualboot?
23:07:45gevaertsBecause you have to if you want to do MSC
23:07:51gevaertsAnd people want MSC
23:08:12pamauryright
23:08:12lebelliumok
23:08:25lebelliumMy Zen X-Fi Style is MSC
23:08:38lebelliumso maybe we won't have this issue for this device :)
23:09:04pamauryyeah newer devices do MSC because they are no based on the old code from creative anymore
23:09:32pamaurybasically the problem arises for the ZEN, X-Fi and Mozaic
23:16:15lebelliumso these devices can only be reformated with Creative tools or on device? What happens if a user reformats them with Windows?
23:16:32gevaertsHow?
23:16:51lebelliumah MTP yes... you can't reformat right?
23:17:33gevaertsExactly
23:17:40gevaertsYou don't get the block device at all
23:18:37pamauryyou can only reformat them with the rockbox bootloader
23:18:59pamauryand the recovery mode of creative can reformat their custom file system
23:19:52lebelliumok
23:20:30lebelliumI naively thought only my PJB-100 uses a proprietary filesystem \o/
23:20:55pamauryoh and they use a custom partition table too :(
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23:45:53DuperManback
23:45:57DuperMannew build?:D
23:47:42DuperManpamaury: any big advantages to totally going rockbox only? it's e.o.l from creative's standpoint and the of is the worst I've used
23:48:09DuperManas is I will not boot back to of unless rockbox hits my mom
23:49:22pamauryIf you ask me I would drop the OF without thinking but some people might prefer to have dual-boot, maybe they feel it's safer
23:50:22pamauryand we don't handle everything: the X-Fi has wifi on some models
23:50:23DuperManyes. cowardly n00bs are never in short supply
23:50:24DuperMan:)
23:51:03DuperMantalking strictly about the o.g Zen mk2
23:51:05DuperMan:P
23:52:27pamauryyeah but the problem is the same for all devices :p
23:53:59DuperMantbch I think rockbox can return to roots, dedicated digital audio players are... a wee bit niche again
23:54:02DuperMan:)
23:54:16DuperManbut opinions are not arguments

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