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#rockbox log for 2013-12-03

00:00:20pamaurythis guy didn't make the 8bit to 16bit transition, he wasn't ahead of his time
00:00:33gevaertsLess is more!
00:00:37pamauryor maybe 256 ought to be enough for everyone ;)
00:01:10 Quit amayer (Quit: Leaving)
00:02:12 Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
00:02:42pamauryand the documentation is not even consistent, it mixes 0-indexed and 1-indexed all the time
00:03:13pamauryI think I will rather read the code of another ssd130x driver in our code
00:03:22 Join nosa-j [0] (~m00k@66.233.224.206)
00:03:27 Quit ender` (Quit: #define sizeof(x) ((rand() % 100 == 42) ? sizeof(x)-1 : sizeof(x)))
00:07:43 Join [Saint] [0] (~saint@rockbox/user/saint)
00:07:50 Join wodz [0] (~wodz@87-207-223-0.dynamic.chello.pl)
00:09:15lebelliumhum looks like I have to find and buy a Sansa Express? Challenge accepted :)
00:09:18wodz\o/: http://pastie.org/8524073 is the first truly custom code running on iriver e150. It simply turn-on backlight but hey
00:09:56pamaurylebellium: good luck, I bet you won't be suceed for a reasonable price in a reasonable future ;)
00:10:00pamaurywodz: amazing :)
00:11:14pamaurywodz: once you have pwm you can do anything ;)
00:11:52pamaurylebellium: by the way I really like the sansa express, it is nicely built
00:11:53wodzpamaury: pwm is a bit ackward - you define fill factor in 1/32 steps
00:12:02lebelliumpamaury: reasonable price seems to be the issue here. You can find any Sansa you want in the US http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Sansa-Express-Player-Black/dp/B000MD40N8
00:12:42pamauryindeed, I have to wait a long time to find one with a small price
00:13:54wodzpamaury: Anyway this gives primitive debug output from device. Now I can start porting hwstub.
00:14:05lebelliumSansa players were not famous back to the time so finding the Express in France can only be difficult :)
00:14:06pamauryexactly
00:14:56wodzI wish I had documentation for cusb2-otg core :-/
00:16:10lebelliumpamaury: I swear this is the last I have work in progress at the moment > don't forget your X-Fi Style waiting at home :D
00:17:09pamaurylebellium: shhhhhh, they must no know
00:17:16wodzand ZEN MX waiting for delivery
00:18:22pamaurynooooo, I'm betrayed by veyr own people
00:18:30pamaury*by my very
00:19:22lebelliumI confirm, the Express is quite easy to find in the US. But with the shipping costs, hard to get it for a reasonable price in France :S
00:23:27pamaurylebellium: do you have any iRiver ? Or reviewed some ?
00:23:52lebelliumpamaury: I have H140, H320, H10 20GB and Clix2
00:24:15 Quit bertrik_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:26:52lebelliummaybe I'll have to buy a E150 soon because of wodz :D
00:27:22wodzlebellium: porting to completely new platform is lengthy process
00:28:15lebelliumthere is no hurry :)
00:28:30pamaurywodz: how similar are the E150 and E100 ?
00:28:39wodzpamaury: virtually the same
00:28:53pamauryOn leboncoin I can find some E100 and one P7 but not others
00:28:55pamaury*no others
00:29:32lebelliumbecause iriver has never been well distributed in France
00:30:28gevaertsCatch the digital flow, with color sound!
00:31:10lebelliumis it better than black&white sound?
00:31:22gevaertsAsk iriver :)
00:31:29gevaertswait
00:31:32gevaertsNo
00:31:34gevaertsThat was iaudio
00:31:45*gevaerts retreats back under his rock
00:31:52pamauryI'm pretty sure iRiver has a similar stupid motto
00:32:05gevaertsriver was the digital flow one
00:34:06 Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving)
00:34:35lebelliumI've always wanted to buy the iRiver Mickey player, but I'm not sure it's a good basis for a Rockbox port
00:35:31pamauryhaha, does it even has buttons ?
00:35:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:37:54lebelliumlooks like you can turn the ears for vol up/down and prev/next
00:39:08lebelliumActually we have http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/Main/IpodShuffle. Does that mean that Rockbox could work on a screen-less player?
00:40:00gevaertslebellium: doom wouldn't work well on it
00:40:12*gevaerts decides not to be pedantic with the iaudio m3
00:41:24lebelliumI've never used my M3 without the remote hum. Is it supposed to work?
00:41:55gevaertsI think so
00:43:19 Quit Horscht (Quit: quit)
00:44:16lebelliumArf I can't try. It won't start. Low battery. That's the issue when you have many players and you don't use some of them for months.
01:00
01:02:55 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 26.0/20131125215016])
01:18:14foolshg#689 I'm probably not doing this the right way, but it works.
01:18:16fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #689 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/689 : 3 by Benjamin Brown (changes/89/689/4)
01:21:27pamaurywe need an expert manual here
01:24:40foolshI couldn't really find a good example of what I wanted to do, it just seems like I'm missing something somewhere that might make it easier.
01:25:30pamaurybasically you are missing a clean way of 1) saying that a target has a touchpad 2) distinguish between boolean and range setting
01:25:43pamauryI admit the boolean vs range one is tricky
01:25:57pamauryBut I don't know the manual very well so I don't know what is proper way of doing this
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01:28:51foolshI could create two separate entries with different wording for each, that might be the way to go
01:32:02 Quit treaki_ (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
01:35:05pamaurylet me see how it's done
01:36:08pamaurya proper way of doing this could be to define options in the targets specific files
01:38:04foolshSANSA_FUZEPLUS_PAD and GIGABEAT_PAD were defined in /manual/platform/foo thats why I choose them
01:38:28foolshshould it be less specific?
01:39:44fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision a15a15b, 243 builds, 33 clients.
01:40:50pamauryI think there should be a more general option for the touchpad section
01:41:19pamauryactually is there a touchpad submenu in rockbox ?
01:41:27foolshno
01:41:47saratogais the express ams?
01:42:01pamaurydo the \subsection of the manual correspond to submenues or is there one per setting ?
01:42:14pamaurysaratoga: no, stmp3600
01:42:21foolshThat I don't know
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01:43:29pamauryhum, the use of subsections seems quite arbitrary
01:44:38saratoga_do we have any arm7e targets? maybe one of the rockchip?
01:44:52fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Build round completed after 309 seconds.
01:45:27pamauryfoolsh: I admit I don't really see a nicer way to write it
01:45:40pamaurymaybe send a mail to rockbox-dev asking for help/review
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01:45:59pamauryif no ones answers, I'll try to poke randomly at people and commit it
01:46:04foolshOk thanks
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01:46:40pamaurysaratoga_: what is arm7e ?
01:46:56pamauryI only know arm7ej
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01:49:06saratogaj is the java shit no one has used in ten years right
01:49:11pamauryis it the weird ARM core which is still an ARM7 but with the ARMv5 set ?
01:49:45pamauryI think the rk27xx uses arm7tdmi
01:50:03saratogaall of PP is arm7tdmi
01:50:23saratogabut i think we have an arm7ej somewhere
01:50:51saratogawhich is probably the strangest arm processor ever made
01:51:18pamauryah you are right, rk27xx is arm7e
01:51:27foolshsaratoga: [Saint] has a forum post with instructions http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,43260.0.html , thats all I know
01:52:38[Saint]Ohhhh, the apkbuilder stuff?
01:52:50[Saint]I need to update that to reflect the current packages.
01:53:00[Saint]But, yes, that guide'll get you building.
01:54:21saratogais it just me or did arm stop publishing cycle timing and interlock information for the cortex series ?
01:55:33pamauryI seem to recall they stop publishing the data in their datasheet but still contributed them to llvm or something like this
01:55:54saratogayeah i see some stuff in gcc about scheduling, but its pretty vague
01:56:40saratogaarm's business plan seems to involve making code generation for their processors infinitely worse as compared to Intel's
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02:01:49pamauryI cannot find any entry on google and I don't recall where I read this
02:03:59saratogai googled for a while and could find only compiler source code mentioning latency and interlocks
02:06:54saratogaanandtech reverse engineered some of it here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6971/ but only for FP for some reason
02:07:22saratogaand theres no way to know if their code was optimal
02:10:23[Saint]...so, I take it it is worthwhile me sharing my knowledge on how to workaround building for Android with a modern adt-bundle and android-ndk?
02:10:36[Saint]well, re-sharing, its changed somewhat.
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02:13:38[Saint]Or would this information be better on the wiki do you think?
02:16:58pamaurysaratoga: in llvm there is this http://llvm.org/viewvc/llvm-project/llvm/trunk/lib/Target/ARM/ARMScheduleA9.td?view=markup for the A9 for example
02:17:30pamaurybut the commits don't mention the source
02:19:35pamaurythere is a *huge* amount of data in those files
02:20:48pamauryI'm off to bed
02:24:09[Saint]Bloody hell...
02:24:28[Saint]The Android adt-bundle and android-ndk is like 2GB :-S
02:24:47[Saint]and we need a very tiny percentage of it to build RaaAoA :)
02:26:17 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
02:26:40[Saint]It might be worthwhile carving out a minimal setup already hacked up to build RaaAoA and packing it up, I'm fairly sure the license allows this and I know a few people would appreciate a drag'n'drop RaaAoA toolchain.
02:29:11[Saint]I just checked, and my method still works on the absolutely bleeding edge tools as well. So instead of editing that probably long forgotten forum post I'll put up a wiki page about it and make that post of mine point to it in case anyone ever stumbles upon that thread.
02:31:17foolshSpeaking about the adt-bundle there is also git repo from google somewhere with that stuff in it, I thought I stumbled across it about a month ago. Dunno if that helps I could try and digg it up again if you're interested
02:35:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:36:14foolshNo wait, nvm apkbuilder is what i was thinking about
02:36:49[Saint]we need slightly more than apkbuilder, though.
02:37:28[Saint]apkbuilder has at least two dependencies (aapt and dx), which themselves have a few dependencies each...
02:38:14[Saint]I haven't mapped out all the dependencies and requirements, but it should be possible to drastically reduce the size of the adt-bundle and android-ndk for our uses.
02:38:36[Saint]by around ~80% or so
02:53:31foolshAh http://tools.android.com/ has build instructions for the SDK we could patch this and fix up installToolchain.sh and maybe automate it again
02:58:38[Saint]I could automate this, I guess.
02:59:09[Saint]I would probably start from scratch though, instead of trying to breath new life into installtoolchain.sh
02:59:43foolshDefinitely
03:00
03:00:10[Saint]I do like the idea of offering a pre-packaged toolchain as well, though. But I guess automating the hackery process to get RaaA building can't be a bad thing.
03:00:17 Quit krabador (Quit: Sto andando via)
03:01:06[Saint]I keep the required files backed up locally in case Google ever decides to stop hosting the files for whatever reason.
03:01:48foolshWhy not both? Provide the package and show the sorcery behind it with a build script. Like rbutil
03:02:12[Saint]As it is, the toolset is "public", but it is extraordinarily difficult to stumble across it. It was difficult to find it even when I was looking.
03:02:12[Saint]And, yes. That seems sensible.
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05:12:06toehserAny way to delete a theme? I uploaded with the wrong name in error, now there is a bad duplicate one... But I don't see a way to delete.
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09:42:22wodzsaratoga: as was pointed out earlier rk27xx uses arm7ej core
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12:02:00wodzmeh, clock selection for pwm is weird on atj - basically I can choose in ranges 4 - 32kHz or 375kHz-3MHz. That means that if current source driver of the leds can't cope with 375kHz signal there is no way to avoid driving it in audio freq
12:02:39wodzOF uses 32kHz btw
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12:13:01pamaurywodz (logs): 32kHz should be sufficient for a led and can't you further divide the 375kHz one using a well chosen duty cycle ?
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12:22:16wodzpamaury: I don't understand your question. While 32kHz works fine it is in audiable range which should be avoided IMO on audio device :-)
12:23:38pamauryI don't know how the pwm is setup but if you can control both the cycle time and the duty cycle, you can virtually divide the frequency as you wish
12:25:46wodzNot quite. The period is fixed once you setup base frequency
12:26:53pamauryah I see, not very good
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12:35:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:41:37ZagorFYI: I'm going to upgrade gerrit now, so it will be down a little while.
12:45:01Zagorbada-bing
12:49:25Zagor^^ that meant "upgrade completed" :-)
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12:59:29*pamaury is eager to use the new gerrit
13:00
13:00:22Zagorif anyone wants to make it look more Rockbox-like, there is some theme support in the new version: http://gerrit-documentation.googlecode.com/svn/Documentation/2.7/config-themes.html
13:00:24pamauryI think I preferred the old theme
13:00:44pamauryah thanks, I'll have a look
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13:46:15pamauryis it possible to rename a wiki page
13:46:16pamaury?
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14:02:39pixelmapamaury: maybe under "more topic actions" the link at the right side of the "edit", "attach" etc. line
14:13:23pamaurypixelma: thanks
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15:06:16wodzlovely clock distribution diagrams contradict each other in atj datasheet :-/
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15:13:58toehserAny way to delete a theme? I uploaded with the wrong name in error, now there is a bad duplicate one... But I don't see a way to delete.
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15:18:01gevaertstoehser: Yes. ask the right people here :)
15:18:05*gevaerts is one of those
15:19:21coppertoehser: in the future, say which theme needs intervention, or what you would like to be done, and people who can do it will do it whenever possible
15:19:33copperthis chan is logged and rockbox devs read them
15:21:08toehserAh, good, so. In SansaClipZip themes, I added a theme by accident called "tosmway1" (meant to update "tomsway1" but slipped the fingers). I'd like to get the Sansa Clip Zip theme "tosmway1" deleted, so there isn't a duplicate bad one.
15:21:21*gevaerts has a look
15:22:06gevaertstoehser: ok, should be done
15:22:16gevaertsAnd yes, the theme site could use some love
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15:22:39gevaertsLooks like you fondly remember monochrome LCDs :)
15:23:14toehserFantastic! Thanks. Yes, perhaps I should have called it the 3278 theme, if you remember mainframe terminals that weren't line based.
15:23:47toehserMostly, I want to be able to see stuff while I'm driving without crashing because I'm squinting at a 6 point font working it's way around album art...
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15:24:33gevaertsWell, I don't actually *remember* them, but I do know what you mean. I've used emulators for them a few times a (long!) while ago
15:25:24coppermonochrome LCD?
15:25:26*copper is intrigued
15:25:59copperhaha, nice
15:27:12toehserAny comment on the look and feel, ordering and placement of fields, etc? Feedback welcome.
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15:55:25pixelmaI still don't understand why the "normal" Sansa Clip has one theme less than the other Clips with the same screen (even the v2)
15:55:32pixelmaon the theme site that is
15:59:10coppermaybe one of the themes uses a feature that is not available for the original Clip?
16:00
16:00:25pixelmacurrently I'm not aware of a big difference between the v1 and the v2 clip except RAM size. I could be wrong though
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16:03:06pixelmalooks like it's the ALiEn theme
16:05:51copperpixelma: note: "Doesn't work with current build"
16:07:14pixelmawell, shouldn't this be true for all the Clips then?
16:07:44copperdunno, but there must be something special about this theme
16:07:54copperpossibly the UFO animation?
16:09:48gevaertscheckwps fails for the clip on them
16:09:50gevaertsNot sure why
16:10:47pixelmawhich of the two generations was the one with the smaller RAM? I seem to recall that this theme really needed a lot of that
16:11:11gevaertsclip
16:11:13gevaertsv1
16:12:45pixelmamaybe that's that then... if it is, this theme is err... a resource hungry
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18:22:26[Saint]pixelma: not to discourage the author, but, it is...interesting, yes.
18:22:43[Saint]There is a massive volley of bitmaps.
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19:50:59copperpamaury: the Fuze+ battery calibration is way off
19:51:16coppermy Fuze+ is fully charged, and it's showing 14h 8m
19:51:23pamauryyeah I know, I need to rerun my calibration script
19:51:29copperok, cool
19:51:35pamauryah for battery life estimation I cannot do anything
19:51:42copperoh?
19:51:51pamaurytrying to predict the time when you don't have instant current draw is impossible
19:52:05pamaurythe only thing I can do is to provide a correct battery reading
19:52:11copperwell, it's not all that important
19:52:43copperif anything, the 40h battery life will give users a pleasant surprise :)
19:53:29copperSanDisk shipped me a brand new replacement for my microsdxc card, so I can use my Fuze+ again :)
19:53:44copperthey were less difficult than I anticipated
19:57:17copperI just had to lie about not using a dd script to copy files under Linux :P
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21:20:41wodzpamaury: ZEN MX is on the way
21:21:04pamaurywodz: thanks
21:21:14pamaurydid you get the money from Zagor ?
21:21:23wodzyes
21:23:01wodzI've got interesting email - Some time a go I wrote to one of s1mp3 devs with a few questions. Thanks to that I've got a bunch of atj related documents. Now the very same guy contacted me with other developer also working on RE mips based atj SoC.
21:24:15pamauryinteresting indeed, that could provide valuable help
21:24:16gevaertsHmmm
21:24:25gevaertsIs gerrit down again?
21:25:08wodzAnother interesting information I've got is that cusb2 ip core was designed by Polish company and sold to CAST. I may try to ask them about some documentation although it is rather unlikely they will ever answer.
21:25:30pamaurygevaerts: apparently
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22:14:13pamaurysigh, why reimplement i2c in softwarer when the SoC has a hardware interface for it ?
22:16:19wodzpamaury: dunno, but that is pretty common widespread concept among system designers :-)
22:16:41pamauryyeah I've noticed that
22:17:34pamaurybut I mean, if they were practical, they could say: "let's use the standard i2c pins in case with manage to setup the hardware for it and if we don't, let's bit-bang it"
22:18:19wodzmeh, CAST is pretty good at protecting documentation apparently. Every datasheet for SoC which uses cusb2 core doesn't describe udc part
22:18:25pamauryinstead they went the opposite: "let's use some obscure pins, rewrite en entire thing with clock stretch even though we don't need it, and let's not even use the software implementation provided by the SDK because we know it's too good and rewrite our own crap"
22:18:58wodzpamaury: Maybe they treat it as a challange :P
22:19:58pamauryI admit this particular implementation is among the best I've seen, for a software one I mean
22:20:51pamaurythey even thought "hey, maybe we should disable irqs when doing that right ?", and they didn't realise they didn't need to but anyway
22:21:39wodz:-)
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22:22:08pamaurythat's unfortunate, why do they hide this udc ?
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22:23:02wodzI guess you sign NDA when purchasing this IP core
22:25:20wodzI don't understand why they hide programmers manual however. This doesn't disclose much about internal structure of the core
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22:29:37pamauryhum, are there two versions of the Sansa Express: one with and one without FM tuner ?
22:32:37lebelliumyou should know better than us :P
22:33:16pamaurywell yeah but if you lookup on the internet they all mention FM, yet it seems sansa sold the Express without radio in Europe and with radio in US + Japan
22:33:27pamaurybut some forums says it's just a software thing
22:33:31pamauryI need to check that !
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22:34:06lebelliumindeed, I see several shops mention "FM" in the US
22:35:28lebelliumI know some Samsung players have it in hardware but disabled with EU region code and others have no FM tuner in hardware in Europe. Maybe it's the same for Sansa
22:35:40pamauryok, now this is *very* strange: an i2c scan reveals a device at address 0xa0 and that's definitely not the tuner
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22:36:12pamauryeven stranger: the code uses DRI and contains references to stfm so it should be a stfm chip but the address doesn't match: it's 0x20 instead of 0xc0
22:36:18pamauryso either a copy or an older version ?
22:55:56wodzpamaury: Is DRI this digital interface connecting stfm whith SoC?
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22:57:10pamauryyeah
22:58:44pamaurythe audio stream only
22:59:45wodzis it sw or hw from the SoC side?
23:00
23:00:34pamauryhw, it's way too high speed for sw
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23:05:49kugel_is anyone familiar with speex?
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23:23:16pamauryhaha, in fact they used the hardware i2c bus, for something else
23:23:19pamaurydon't know what yet
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23:39:10wodzuh, e150 has 8MB of sdram. I thought it has at least 2x more
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