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#rockbox log for 2013-12-21

00:01:04 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
00:02:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:01:11 Quit ender` (Quit: The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it.-- George Carlin)
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06:21:11saratogadoes inline assembly really screw with gcc's optimizer? looking at the opus generated code the results are just bizarre
06:21:31saratogaat one point it saves an array counter to the stack and then immediately loads it back, and even to the same register
06:21:55saratogathats got to be inline code messing with it somehow?
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11:41:51kugelhm, 35-adobe font is way too small for 1080p cabbie
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12:35:42pamaurylebellium: I have the zen x-fi style
12:52:31lebelliumpamaury: great :)
13:00
13:28:29fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision 21ff832, 243 builds, 33 clients.
13:32:32fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Build round completed after 244 seconds.
13:44:49lebelliumI don't really understand the car adapter mode. Does it recognize if there is power with the USB port or with the 3.5mm output?
13:47:55kugelhm, somehow rockbox cannot read gimp-generated bmps anymore
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14:11:13kugelgrml
14:11:25kugelgimp apparently changed BI_BITFIELD masks
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15:51:56chrisjjDoes the website have an automated build of the current Rockbox Utility ?
15:53:50bluebrotherchrisjj: no
15:54:43bluebrotherI'm providing development binaries (usually only Windows, sometimes also OS X) at http://tinyurl.com/rbutil-dev
15:54:51bluebrotherthough those are updated only every now and then
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16:20:11chrisjjbluebrother: thanks.
16:21:38chrisjjbluebrother: Do you know if the user docs list the actual names of supported models anywhere?
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17:10:32 Part chattr ("Don't criticize a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. That way, you're a mile away and have his shoes.")
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17:55:20PurlingNayukiI was trying to implement a volume limiter but was stuck when creating menu...
17:57:56PurlingNayukiAny advice when choosing between SOUND_SETTING and INT_SETTING and INT_SETTING_NOWRAP?
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19:12:07Guest86542Hello everyone. Just installed Rockbox on a Sansa Clip+ which I am trying to configure for a blind friend of mine.
19:12:36Guest86542Just to say that it's taken me a while to work it all out - but I am getting there! Thanks for all your hard work :o)
19:12:57Guest86542The VoiceBox tool works very nicely.
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20:33:20saratogalebellium: all car adapter mode does is turn off the player when power is disconnected, without it the device will keep playing until the battery is dead
20:33:42gevaertsNot entirely
20:33:48gevaertsIt pauses playback
20:33:56gevaertsYou still need the idle poweroff setting
20:37:36coppercar adapter = powered dock?
20:37:42lebelliumso if I use my player in aux in without USB in my car, it doesn nothing?
20:38:37gevaertslebellium: if by "without USB" you mean "without power", correct
20:38:50lebelliumok
20:39:00gevaertscopper: not necessarily. It's just the name of a setting, really
20:40:02coppergevaerts: well, in which cases does it get used?
20:40:19gevaertscopper: the only limit is your imagination! :)
20:40:24copperlol
20:40:30copperNot the answer I expected.
20:40:39gevaertsI mean, I use it in the car, but I don't use a dock strictly speaking, just a power cable
20:41:10gevaertsAnd a few days ago someone on the forums wanted this vintage radio thing where it would come in handy
20:41:18saratogayeah it uses the idle poweroff, but the idea is the same
20:41:27coppergevaerts: let me put it this way: if I ever buy an iPod "dock" (boombox for iPods), should I turn on the car adapter setting?
20:41:27saratogaso long as you don't disable the idle power off
20:42:10gevaertscopper: I have no idea. Do you need the device to stop playing when power is cut? If so, yes
20:42:26saratogaFWIW, the manual has a pretty clear description of the feature: http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-sansaclip/rockbox-buildch8.html#x11-1390008.5.3
20:42:36saratogaalthough i'm pretty sure i wrote that so i might be biased
20:43:02coppermmm-kay
20:43:42coppersaratoga: ay, good
20:43:45copperaye*
20:43:58copperso that would be a "Yes" to my question
20:44:28coppererm
20:44:37coppermaybe it should be renamed to "powered dock"
20:44:56copperbecause that's what it really is
20:45:12gevaertsAgain, I use it without a dock
20:48:32coppererm
20:48:46copperpowered LOD?
20:48:57copperMeh.
20:49:09gevaertsAgain, no. It's a power cable :)
20:49:47copperExternal Power Mode?
20:50:16copper"Car Adapter" sounds restrictive
20:50:28gevaertsSeriously though, whatever name it gets, it will confuse some (or all) of those who don't read about it in the manual, and renaming will cause confusion
20:50:37copperand I suspect users wouldn't think of enabling it in situations where it's pertinent, but doesn't involve a car
20:51:02gevaertsOK, so if someone tells you there is an~ "External Power Mode" without further information, would you be able to say what it does?
20:51:20copper"pauses when external power cuts off"
20:51:47*gevaerts doesn't believe copper
20:51:57copperer
20:52:03copperI misread your question
20:52:11tertui had honestly no idea what car adapter mode did
20:52:30copperI would say, "does something special when the iPod is externally powered"
20:52:52gevaertsThe thing is, it doesn't do that :)
20:53:07gevaertsIt does nothing at all as long as the player is externally powered
20:53:37copperit does
20:53:42copperit pauses when power cuts off?
20:53:54tertu"Pause on External Power Loss"?
20:54:12copperanyway
20:54:12*gevaerts doesn't like changing names for the sake of it
20:54:15copperI made my point
20:54:34copperthanks for the information though
20:57:22tertuis there a list of devices that are known to work with iPods running rockbox?
20:58:05copperany device that accepts PCM output from the LOD
20:58:09copperanalog
20:58:09 Join Topy44 [0] (~Topy44@93.190.93.215)
20:58:23tertuOh, i've got a classic, never mind
20:58:23copperdigital (USB) won't work
20:58:32copper?
20:58:38coppersame deal with the Classic
20:58:45tertuOkay.
20:58:47copper(Rockbox runs on the Classic too)
20:59:11gevaertsThere's no IAP support on the classic though
20:59:17gevaertsSo not exactly the same deal
20:59:49copperwhat's IAP?
20:59:57copperexternal control?
21:00
21:02:50tertui think so, the iPod dock that I found in my house that worked still didn't let me pause or play
21:10:46saratogai use car adapter mode on my clip which doesn't even have line out :)
21:11:43copperhow do you power the clip?
21:11:43saratogaiap = ipod accessory protocol
21:11:46copperer
21:11:54copperokay
21:12:03saratogaUSB connector for power, headphone out to the stereo line in
21:12:48saratogai have so many clips i just have one permanently in the car
21:13:51saratogaeverywhere i look in Opus I see optimizations it needs that I did 6+ years ago for WMA
21:15:38saratogai started writing the FFT in assembly but its a lot harder than i thought it would be
21:15:47saratogai see easier optimizations if anyone is bored over the holidays :)
21:37:14 Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
21:40:46coppersaratoga: are those optimizations so generic, that a general (audio) purpose library could be written?
21:41:16saratogacopper: they're stuff thats generic in most codecs, but that need to be adapted to opus because its a bit strange
21:41:43saratogafor WMA/AAC/Vorbis/WMAPRO/AC3 we just shared this stuff between all the codecs
21:41:49saratogabut it needs adapting for vorbis
21:41:52saratogaerr opus
21:42:29copperjust wondering if you could offer those optimizations to codec authors and avoid having to do the same work all over again with every codec
21:42:44copper(not that I expect many more codecs to be invented in the foreseable future)
21:43:14saratogayeah for the most part we share stuff whenever possible
21:43:26saratogaactually this same stuff should be updated for the other codecs now that we have newer arm cores
21:43:37copperie, more work!
21:43:42saratogayeah
21:43:53saratogaand its hard to get motivated enough to take WMA from 20 MHz to 15 MHz
21:43:58copperlol
21:44:07copperwho uses WMA anymore?
21:44:09saratogawe're so fast it barely matters
21:44:21copperall the WMA stores have gone
21:44:27saratogawell it'd be the same couple MHz different on AAC, Vorbis, etc
21:45:00saratogaactually i'm so close to finishing the MP3 rewrite from 3 years ago, i should probably finish that
21:45:03saratogapeople still use mp3
21:45:11copperthey do
21:45:15saratogai got 90% of the way done and then got busy
21:45:41saratogaand i looked at the Android MP3 decoder and they use almost the same trick, so i think its probably quite good
21:46:13saratogabut speeding up opus would be nice so that more people use it
21:46:26copperI know some people are interested
21:46:49copperits low(ish) bitrate performance is impressive enough
21:47:04saratogayeah, seems like a good all around MP3/AAC replacement
21:47:29saratogaalthough i think mp3 patents expired this month, at least in the USA, so maybe people will just use that forever
21:48:59 Part Guest86542
21:49:39lonoxmontof course this assumes some dumbshit doesnt manage to ram through a copyright on it
21:49:49lonoxmontin the us, copyright is essentially eternal
21:50:05saratogain the US you can't copyright algorithms, only implementations, so thats fine here
21:50:18saratogaso you can copyright the rockbxo mp3 decoder, but anyone can look at the math and write their own
21:50:19lonoxmontin theory its limited, but with disney pushing through another mickey mouse protection act every time the limit gets close
21:51:01lonoxmonthuh, didnt know that
21:51:06lonoxmontneat
21:51:12lonoxmontat least they c ant take that awya from us
21:51:15lonoxmontnot yet
21:51:17saratogaactually in the US, copyright is fairly limited with respect to software, even things composed of code like interfaces and headers generally cannot be copyrighted, let alone ideas like algorithms or formats
21:51:42saratogaso for instance someone can take our plugins.h file and probably change the license to whatever they want and we can't stop them
21:52:16saratogasince its just effectively a functional table of numbers, and not an expression of creativity
21:53:04saratoga(due to some old rulings from the 1800s about how tables of data like phone books and library indexes cannot be copyrighted)
21:53:38saratogawhich has some logic to it, sinec the US has strong patents, you want to make sure the two domains don't overlap
21:54:32lonoxmontmm, true
21:56:18saratogaderf: can you tell me how transform size decisions are made in Opus, and what restrictions exist?
21:56:37saratogafor example, the files I have only have 2 transform sizes, is that a hard limit of 2 per file, or can more sizes be used?
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22:26:52derfsaratoga: Long/short decisions are made based on the transient detector.
22:27:05derfThe encoder has a setting for frame size, which decides the length of the long transform.
22:27:12derfBut that's not a format requirement.
22:27:21derfThere's more advanced code to do adaptive frame size decisions.
22:27:28derfBut it didn't work very well, so it isn't enabled.
22:30:48lonoxmontderf: sounds like a target for work
22:36:29saratogaderf: so a stream could potientially have many frame sizes like WMA ?
22:36:34saratogaerr transform sizes
22:36:50saratogawhat is the largest permissible size?
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22:51:44derfsaratoga: Yes. Largest frame size is 960 (slightly larger window).
22:52:41saratogaok cool
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