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#rockbox log for 2014-01-17

00:00:23kugel_so what does this mean?
00:00:56pamauryit means we use the vhci_hcd + usbip core stuff and the simulator reimplements the client side of the protocol to fake a device
00:01:03kugel_can we write to a socket and the kernel will create a usb device out of this?
00:01:14pamauryno exactly
00:01:39pamaurybecause the ip protocol is for transport only afaiu
00:01:57pamauryyou need to manually tell the system to add a device, probably using sysfs
00:02:06pamaurybut that's no big deal
00:02:18pamauryand there is event a c library to do it
00:02:29pamaury(assuming you have the rights to do it)
00:02:33pamauryI hope I'm clear
00:04:54kugel_okay, so we have to create a device, using some other means and possibly needing root, and then we read/write from/to a socket, and on the other hand a usb driver (e.g. for ums) receives our data?
00:05:33kugel_s/hand/end/
00:06:00kugel_regardless of whether I understood this correctly or not; does it sound feasible to you?
00:06:12pamauryyes
00:07:21pamauryit is basically the same as the old code except 1) you write to a socket instead using a magical function to send/recv 2) the protocol is slightly different 3) you have to parse packets yourself instead of using the magical library
00:08:12kugel_I wonder what makes IP so suitable for this, seems like an awkward choice at first sight
00:09:04kugel_hm, this thing can be used to connect machines via USB right?
00:09:18kugel_or is this local only
00:09:27pamaurywhat do you mean ?
00:09:59pamauryit's not local only, you can export a usb device from another computer
00:10:06pamauryat least that was the initial idea of usbip
00:10:39pamaurythe way I will use usbip clearly is not way they intended to do in the first place
00:10:51kugel_yea, I was confused. not two machines via usb, but usb host and device via an ip network
00:11:00pamauryyes exactly
00:11:14pamauryit seems like we are the only one who try to fake a usb device
00:11:47kugel_hope it works out
00:13:33pamaurymy experience with the previous vhci_hcd taught me that it's not really hard, you just need to be careful that kernel usb interface is URB oriented and not packet oriented
00:14:50kugel_sounds like with usbip it would be packet oriented again
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00:15:21pamauryno I think it's also URB oriented
00:15:35pamaurydespite appearance ^^
00:15:41kugel_but you exchange IP packets dont you?
00:15:53kugel_perhaps URBs wrapped into IP packets?
00:16:02pamauryyes but IRBs are wrapped into packets
00:16:05pamaury*URB
00:16:47pamauryI'm not really an expert of socket programming so I hope they don't do anything weird
00:18:26kugel_normally sockets with localhost and connection-less protocols are trivial but this might be different
00:18:33*kugel_ is off
00:21:56*pamaury thinks he will need to learn about linux usb stuff to understand the protocol
00:22:03pamaurythey didn't even tried to hide the details
00:22:07pamaury*try
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00:48:17*[Saint] curses devices with silly, silly, silly resolutions...
00:48:39 Quit ender` (Quit: That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history.-- Aldous Huxley)
00:48:43[Saint]486x984...I mean, c'mon! Really!?!
00:49:17[Saint]What's wrong with the "nice" resolutions, I wonder.
00:49:52[Saint]320x240, 320x480, 480x800, etc.
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08:42:07wodzI have mystery behavior of backlight on rk27xx with usb patch. 1) If I connect-disconnect before backlight fadeout occurs everything is OK. 2) If I connect, wait up to ~10s after fadout, disconnect everything is OK. 3) If I connect, wait longer then say 15s after fadeout, disconnect the backlight powers on but is at the very lowest level.
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08:44:43wodzIf I do another cycle connect - disconnect in this weird 'dark' state things gets even stranger. connect-disconnect before fadeout kicks in heal the backlight state (aka it goes to the main menu with proper backlight brightness). Doing connect, wait long enough, disconnect preserves 'dark' state
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08:47:52wodzAh and one more anomaly - if connect is done in 'dark' state when fadeout kicks in you actually see it restoring proper brightness level and doing fadeout immediately.
08:48:06wodzany idea what may be involved?
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10:57:22kugelwe're hit by http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=52991
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11:20:17pamaurykugel: the reports suggest it's also buggy on linux
11:20:40kugelyes but on linux the buggy option isn't on by default
11:21:10kugel-mms-bitfields is win32 specific (used to align structs/unions on 8-byte)
11:22:14pamauryah ok
11:22:58pamaurydoes it work with -mno-ms-bitfield or whatever it is called ?
11:23:26kugelyes
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11:48:10kugelPurlingNayuki: ping
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12:00
12:14:42PurlingNayukikugel: pong
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12:23:41kugelPurlingNayuki: did you work on the lcd size list, or do you plan to?
12:24:12PurlingNayukiWell, plan to ;-)
12:26:05kugelalright
12:26:07kugelthanks
12:26:50kugelI made a list of targets with "ls firmware/export/config > configs"
12:27:04kugelI'll start at the bottom; if you start at the top we can meet somewhere in the middle
12:29:19PurlingNayukiSo send me this?
12:29:50kugelhttp://pastie.org/8641967
12:30:27kugelandroid.h, sdlapp.h and sim.h can be ignored
12:30:47PurlingNayukiWhy no android?
12:31:04kugelalso nokian8xx, nokian900 and pandora.h
12:31:12PurlingNayukiOops
12:31:33PurlingNayukiBuilt-in lcd_get_dpi() for them right>
12:31:36PurlingNayuki*?
12:31:40kugelondavx* and mr500 as well
12:31:54kugelall these have already dpi exposure
12:32:09PurlingNayukiI see
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12:34:03[Saint]Is this work required to get line separator in lists in?
12:34:37PurlingNayukiSo I just return you a file with several lines of "$target.h LCD_SIZE" would this be OK?
12:35:07kugelyea
12:39:59PurlingNayukiStart right now :)
12:41:08PurlingNayukiAnd.. achros series?
12:42:36kugelyes
12:43:12PurlingNayukiI'll leave them to the very last
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12:53:19PurlingNayukikugel: Zen X-Fi 2 is equipped with a 3.0 inches TOUCHSCEEN.
12:53:31PurlingNayukiSo it should also be excluded from the list
12:55:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:57:50wodzbtw. considering we have notoriously broken recorder build and nobody complaint I guess we are reaching the point where drop of archos is justified
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13:09:11kugelPurlingNayuki: right
13:11:39kugelPurlingNayuki: more accurate list: http://pastie.org/8642049
13:12:56PurlingNayukiBut I have started some
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13:24:11PurlingNayukikugel: Are you working on it now?
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13:39:44kugelPurlingNayuki: no, sorry, no time today
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13:40:15PurlingNayukiNever mind. I mean if you're not working on it I'll handle this
13:40:20PurlingNayukiin hours
13:42:07kugelcool
14:00
14:11:58toehser1Hmmm... I have an Archos FM Recorder... I'd like to get one last build before support is dropped... :)
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14:29:21toehser1Does anyone remember the voltage/polarity of the power that thing requires?
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14:52:48[Saint]toehser1: what do you mean by "support is dropped"?
14:52:56[Saint]That won't ever happen.
14:54:09[Saint]In the future, some of the very low-specced devices may be branched off, but even if that happened they would still continue to get bugfixes.
14:55:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:59:37wodz[Saint]: Do I understand correctly that you volunteer to be maintainer? :-)
15:00
15:00:22PurlingNayukikugel: http://pastebin.com/EPyzi8aQ should help.
15:00:42PurlingNayukiAnd my work has finished.
15:01:10*[Saint] runs
15:01:54wodzPurlingNayuki: what is the value? screen diagonal in inches?
15:02:22PurlingNayukiCorrect
15:02:52wodzI can measure mpio hd300 and mpio hd200 eventually. Why is this needed?
15:03:33PurlingNayukiTo implement lcd_get_size() for all targets
15:03:36pamauryI can measure for the devices I own but I wonder too why this is needed
15:03:54PurlingNayukiAnd this is needed for list separator line
15:04:51wodzand diagonal is very misleading measure
15:05:03pamauryI thought it was needed only for touchscreen but surely I can measure it
15:05:08wodzunless you can combine it with resolution
15:05:28PurlingNayukiYes, we are
15:05:44wodzpamaury: that was also my feeling so I am a bit surprised seeing mpio on the list
15:05:45PurlingNayukiWe have already resolutions values in git
15:06:09pamauryPurlingNayuki: where do the values come from in this list ?
15:07:09PurlingNayukiDatasheets, reviews, everywhere..
15:09:18PurlingNayukiIt's required by G#384 so ask kugel for details. I've read the code but can't ensure I'm thinking exactly the same as him.
15:09:21fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #384 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/384 : 3Touchscreen: Show a line separator in lists. by Thomas Martitz (changes/84/384/3)
15:10:57pixelmathere are also targets with non-square pixels, so diagonal doesn't tell much on these
15:11:09*[Saint] nods
15:11:19coppernon square pixels?
15:11:23copperhow does that work?
15:11:57pixelmathey are still rectangular but width is about 80% of the height
15:12:02[Saint]Well, they're pixels, but they're not square. ')
15:12:14[Saint]*;)
15:15:48copperthat's just not right
15:15:57wodzpixelma: did you test the build on M5?
15:18:15pixelmayes, seems fine
15:18:39wodzgood
15:19:43toehser1Saint: "(06:57:51 AM) wodz: btw. considering we have notoriously broken recorder build and nobody complaint I guess we are reaching the point where drop of archos is justified"
15:20:39[Saint]right - but the wording of that is slightly misleading.
15:20:41wodztoehser1: that is my personal opinion - far from get it done actually
15:21:18[Saint]Its not like the device is just going to disappear from the lineup.
15:21:30[Saint]It would just be branched out and frozen.
15:21:48[Saint]With anyone still free to commit bugfixes as they come arounnd.
15:22:35[Saint]Various people have talked of doing this in the past.
15:22:55[Saint]Not just with the Recorder, but with all HW codec and charcell targets.
15:23:03toehser1There are LOTS of non-square pixel devices and formats... PAL and NTSC for common examples... PAL is 59:54 and NTSC is 10:11.
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15:24:46toehser1Maybe I'll just give it away... It has a 60GB hard drive, but the buttons have problems (in the plastic cover, the switches are fine), the screen is ugly, and... well... I have clipZips with 64GB cards. Other than the SPDIF recording ability (pairs well with my also obsolete portable DAT?) it is hard to see why it will ever see use.
15:25:41PurlingNayukipixelma: Non-square pixels sound interesting. Which target?
15:25:41[Saint]Where are you, geographically, Tom?
15:27:34pixelmatoehser1: if you have an FM recorder, you may be able to help out amiconn, who may want to try to get the bootloader approach done and would need tester(s) for that one Archos device he doesn't have. That would help the Recorder build
15:27:53[Saint]toehser1: I would be keen to acquire such a device, if such a device was up for offer.
15:28:05[Saint]Where are you, geographically?
15:28:25pixelmaPurlingNayuki: the bitmap Archos' screens (so all except the Player)
15:29:17PurlingNayukiI just.. skipped them
15:29:46toehser1DC
15:29:53toehser1USA
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15:30:26PurlingNayukiAt that time no one was interested in how big screen their player had
15:32:18[Saint]toehser1: Well, if you do decide to part with it - please keep me in mind. I would reimburse shipping and packaging costs, of course. Plus a sum for the device, should you wish.
15:33:55toehser1At a minimum, it seems I should look for the wall-wart, fix the buttons, put the current build on it, and make it available for testing and development. I'm not completely clear why there is any interest in something so outdated.
15:34:57pixelma[Saint]: you do not want to help development, do you? ;)
15:34:59[Saint]For myself, I would like to be able to assist with testing. I would also like to own what is essentially a piece of Rockbox history.
15:35:57[Saint]pixelma: with testing, when needed, of course. But I'm not sure I am able to do any of the real "dirty work".
15:36:52toehser1I suppose it is that. I haven't booted it for years and years, probably the version of Rockbox it has on it is also a piece of history. I'm curious when I find the power supply and boot it, what version it will report.
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15:37:54[Saint]I think there's something really special about a device that has been supported for over a decade. :)
15:38:01[Saint]I would love to own one.
15:39:06pixelmaPurlingNayuki: see e.g. the screenshot in these Archos' manuals, nice example is chessbox. On the real display it looks like an almost perfect square but to get that the graphics had to be wider
15:39:15pixelma*screenshots
15:39:52[Saint]Its quite well done, actually.
15:41:03toehser1Hmmm... trying chessbox on the sim for the fm recorder... I see I should file a bug that the sim doesn't properly simulate the non-square pixels...
15:45:21pixelmamaybe you could do something about your monitor?
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15:56:05PurlingNayukiAnyone knows how to deal with plugin lrcplayer's problem that fast-forward or backward will not have impact on playing immediately?
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17:33:11pamaurykugel: ping
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18:45:35kugelpamaury: pong (i only have a few minutes though)
18:47:06pamaurykugel: at the moment it's not very crucial but just to be sure, SIMULATOR is the same as CONFIG_PLATFORM == PLATFORM_HOSTED|PLATFORM_SDL or is there a difference between the two ? Should I use SIMULATOR to be sure ?
18:47:17pamaury(to decide what to compile)
18:49:09 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0/20140113161826])
18:49:26kugelpamaury: use SIMULATOR
18:49:49kugelunless you want the stuff also in the sdl application build
18:50:03pamauryok
18:52:32pamauryalso, what do you think of building the storage layer in the simulator ? For example use a file as a backend storage
18:52:44pamaurymaybe by defining a new type of storage like STORAGE_FILE
18:53:29pamaurythat would be a neat way to test the storage layer, because that's also the point to test usb + storage = need to close all files
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18:56:47pamaurydamn he is gone
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19:08:28foolshpamaury: I'm way out of my league with g677 the only thing I have are a handful of archaic notes floating around my desk.
19:08:29fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #677 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/677 : 3 by Amaury Pouly (changes/77/677/12)
19:08:40foolshI need to start with smaller steps in my learning
19:09:36foolshYou say you have unfinished port that may only need the plugins ported I can do that
19:10:15foolshDon't be shy to delegate some of those easier/smaller/boring tasks my way
19:10:41pamauryok :)
19:10:41pamauryI warn you that's an horrible task ^^ Basically all ports: zenxfi2/3, nwze360/370, zen/xfi/xfistyle and others. The process is simple though
19:10:59pamaurydo you have a dev box here ? I can explain you right now
19:11:33foolshI do, and I have add keymaps in the past to post I.
19:11:40foolshdamn cat
19:12:23foolshfor targets I own that were not finished I've added keymaps in the past but didn't share
19:13:15pamauryok, so first pick a target (let's say zenxfi3), create a new build dir, cd to it, edit tools/configure so that the 'plugins = ""' line of the relevant target becomes 'plugins = "yes"' then do a simulator build: run ../tools/configure, select the target, simulator and try to build it
19:13:43pamauryyou will run into compile errors for plugins: you need to fix them by adding the keymap and make sure that each plugin is somewhat usable
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19:14:37pamaurymaybe it's simpler to start with, say, the ZEN or NWZ-E360 because they have a standard looking button pad
19:14:44pamaurythe X-Fi3 is really weird
19:15:05foolshOk :) great
19:16:10pamauryjust an obvious hint: when you edit the keymap, find the closest looking target and copy the keymap from it for each plugin, this will save you a lot of time
19:16:26pamauryfor example the NWZ-E360 and the Fuze+ are very very close
19:17:36pamauryalso don't bother too much on making plugins usable, compiling is a great step already because then we can include them in nightly builds and other users can post bug reports
19:18:02foolshRight, that makes a lot of sense
19:23:12foolshOh and documentation I can do that as well, I'm willing to help out any little way I can
19:24:47pamaurythanks :) I think plugins is the big thing for the moment and then there will be the manual
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20:47:31dunpealHi. I'm having trouble installing a 64GB MicroSDXC card on my Sansa Clip+ running latest rockbox.
20:48:05copper"installing"?
20:48:17dunpealcopper: When I first inserted the card, it wasn't recognized by RB at all. So, I suppose RB can't handle exFAT?
20:48:27copperyou suppose right
20:48:32copperyou need to format it as FAT32
20:49:01dunpealcopper: I did, then connected it to my Ubuntu 13.04 laptop to upload some podcasts.
20:49:12dunpealUnforutnately, it unmounted during the copy.
20:49:29dunpealThat happened twice, so doesn't seem like a quirk.
20:50:13dunpealcopper: RB does recognize the card in its new FAT32 format, but that doesn't help much if I can't upload files :)
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20:50:23dunpealAny idea what could be the problem?
20:50:23copperer, you're supposed to format the card directly on the PC, using an adapter and a card reader
20:50:54dunpealah, I suppose that is the problem then.
20:50:58coppernot by connecting the Clip+ to the PC
20:51:14copperif only because Rockbox devices sometimes crap out when connected via USB
20:51:23copperwhich I guess is what happened here
20:51:47dunpealcopper: I should be able to do it on Ubuntu 13.04? Because I formatted it twice, and gparted indicated the format was successful.
20:52:08copperI don't know gparted
20:52:18copperthat's a partitioner, isn't it?
20:52:32copperyou're not supposed to partition the card, it's already properly partitionned
20:52:50copperyou just need to set the partition to the right type, and then format it using mkfs.vfat or whatever
20:53:12dunpealit's a partitioner and formatter. very stable. Ubuntu has been using it in its installer for years
20:53:39copperok
20:53:43dunpealmhmhm
20:54:23dunpealcopper: the way gparted works, is you delete the former partition (the exFAT one) and create a new partition (FAT32 in this case)
20:54:30copperpartition type should be set to "b" ("W95 FAT32")
20:55:18dunpealcopper: so I should just have one "b" ("W95 FAT32") partition taking up all the space on the card?
20:55:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:56:03copperyes, but set the offset to at least 2048 sectors
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20:56:28copperoriginally the offset should be higher, like 8192-32768
20:56:35copper(I think)
20:58:15dunpealCould it be the card? This is the exact model: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CHHTOII/
20:59:58copperif you're able to properly format it to FAT32 and copy files on it, with the adapter and a card reader, then the card is fine
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21:00:16coppercopy all your files with the PC, then insert the card in the Clip+ while it's turned off
21:00:35dunpealOK. Could it be that I need to upgrade Sansa firmware or some such?
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21:03:06copperno
21:04:31wodzkugel: (log) MPIO HD300 ~2", HD200 ~1,6"
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21:18:37dunpealcopper: what's an "offset"? :)
21:20:30foolshdunpeal: the defaults from gparted should have been fine, also you can simply right click a partition in gparted and "format to.." what ever type you like without deleting it
21:20:51foolshbut deleting it first also should have been fine
21:21:07dunpealfoolsh: yes, I'm not sure what's going on :(
21:22:16foolshdunpeal: as copper said "Rockbox devices sometimes crap out when connected via USB" maybe invest in a dedicated adapter
21:22:35foolshOr try the OF if it can do that
21:22:38dunpealfoolsh: I'll try plugging it into the laptop directly with the enclosed adapter. if it still unmounts abruptly when I try to copy files into it, then the only logical conclusion is that the card hardware itself is defective, right?
21:23:06foolshThat sounds reasonible
21:23:34dunpealfoolsh: thanks! what's OF?
21:25:02copperI thought you did that already
21:25:10copperthat's what I told you to do
21:25:46foolshdunpeal: the original firmware
21:26:15dunpealcopper: I didn't do it just yet, no.
21:26:33dunpealOK, thanks guys, I'll have a shot at it with an adapter.
21:26:41dunpealPS why does the vendor format the cards to exFAT?
21:26:51dunpealyou're implying FAT32 should work
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21:28:50copperbecause exFAT allows for files larger than 4 GB, for instance (which FAT32 does not)
21:29:11copperI think it allows for larger storage too
21:29:23copper(though I may be wrong about that)
21:30:31dunpealYeah, I guess that can make sense if you want to support video.
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21:33:18dunpeal"exFAT (Extended File Allocation Table) is a Microsoft file system optimized for flash drives.[3] It is proprietary and patent-pending."
21:33:21dunpealhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExFAT
21:34:46dunpealIt has a whole bunch of benefits over FAT32, though some of them aren't very relevant for memory cards (you can have 2TB FAT32 partitions)
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21:41:33saratoga_adding exfat would be nice but I'm not volunteering to add it
21:44:15toehser1Just never actually do anything to an sd card through rockbox via USB. Remove the card from the player, use and adapter. WAY faster, too, at least with Sansa.
21:45:22toehser1Apparently exfat is _REQUIRED_ as part of the micro sd xc standard- bizarre but plausible.
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21:46:07toehser1I'd rather just support ext4 than exfat... but FAT32 works fine.
21:46:09wodzcopper: The main reason bigger cards are exFAT formated by default is the fact that xc standard REQUIRES it to be such formated which is bizarre
21:46:46copperI know
21:46:55copperit's not bizarre, it's business as usual
21:47:18coppermoney money money PATENTS money
21:47:22wodzthats the term bizarre in my personal dictionary
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21:48:40copperit's actually justified to use a filesystem that supports large files
21:48:55copperthe only problem that I can see, is that the filesystem format is locked down
21:49:18copperprobably for the same reasons that BluRay uses proprietary lossless audio codecs
21:49:34coppereven though they bring nothing new to the table
21:49:35toehser1Interesting, both that I have are http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Ultra-MicroSDXC-Memory-Adapter/dp/B005V7WIA2, which until recently was 'what there was' in Amazon, now there are several other manufacturers. I assume the're all OK...
21:51:01toehser1I haven't seen any USB issues when accessing the INTERNAL STORAGE with a build from the last few days... but I would never use USB => Sansa => SD Card - because it is SO MUCH SLOWER than an adapter, anyway.
21:52:19toehser1Do we have a FAQ about how to FAT32 format 64GB cards? This comes up a lot. I saw discussion of how to do it in Windows, and there are of course various ways to approach it in Linux.
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21:54:15toehser1BTW, I think partition type 'c' is more correct than type 'b' for FAT32 partitions in this case... 'b' is supposed to be only up to 2G I think...
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22:18:03coppertoehser1: all USB flash drives that I've owned came with a "b" partition type
22:18:21coppermicrosdhc cards too
22:18:35copper*sdhc cards
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22:45:31toehser1Does rockbox use CHS or LBA internally?
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22:50:21pamauryLBA
22:50:58pamauryat least on all non-ata targets, and on most ata targets too I guess
22:51:25dunpealtoehser1: the wikipedia article says exfat is "optimized" for SSD. What does that mean really?
22:52:06dunpealit seems to imply that we'd rather have exfat than ext4 support, though that would be nice for us Linux users.
22:52:59pamaurylooking at code we always use lba, and lba48 when available on ata
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23:01:16core__is version 3.14 going to be relased
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23:03:36wodzprobably
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23:10:43dunpealWhat's a good way to check a FAT32 memory card for errors?
23:10:54dunpeal(on Linux [Ubuntu])
23:12:31pamaurydunpeal: you mean for file system errors ?
23:12:43dunpealpamaury: yes
23:12:47pamauryfsck ?
23:13:06dunpealI tried it, it alsways says I have some problem with the FAT
23:13:22dunpealeven when I run it, let it fix the problem, then rerun it immediately
23:14:34pamaurydid you try the -a option ?
23:14:52pamauryor -r ?
23:15:04pamaurywithout any of those, it won't write the changes iirc
23:19:36wodzpamaury: Do you have any idea what is causing odd backlight behavior on rk27xx with usb patch? (http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20140117#08:42:07 for reference)
23:20:07pamauryno idea, that's very strange
23:23:31dunpealpamaury: I've used the following:
23:23:32dunpealdosfsck -rlvt
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