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#rockbox log for 2014-02-13

00:08:26 Join Ward [0] (~Mirandaha@176-120-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr)
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01:22:36 Join SunshineDave [0] (~david@124-150-81-102.dyn.iinet.net.au)
01:41:07SunshineDaveDoes Rockbox have aac support? I encoded some music in aac I couldnt see them so I renamed the extentions from aac to m4a now the show up but wont play - the files are 224kbs vbr im using a cowon D2 with rockbox-cowond2-20140212
01:41:49 Join markun [0] (~markun@rockbox/developer/markun)
01:41:49SunshineDaveIncendently the files play fine on the pc
01:45:44[Saint]What is the host OS on the PC?
01:47:00[Saint]Also, yes, we do support AAC - however I am unsure if we expect it to be in an MP4 container or not.
01:48:13[Saint]AFAIK we do AAC and HE-AAC in MP4, and AAC in RealAudio.
01:49:21[Saint]Woo! And in a rare moment, the documentation seems to agree with me completely. See: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SoundCodecs
01:49:26[Saint]SunshineDave: ^
01:49:40SunshineDaveubuntu 13
01:50:41SunshineDaveI used soundKonvertor
01:50:48[Saint]"file /path/to/problematic/file.ext" may be somewhat interesting.
01:53:47[Saint]You may also want to check for very large embedded album art.
01:55:45 Join krabador [0] (~krabador@unaffiliated/krabador)
01:56:00SunshineDaveno album art but ill try another re-encode with aac unchecked and m4a checked in the encoder
01:56:12[Saint](any art that exceeds the smallest screen dimension of the device itself (so, 240x240 on a 320x240 device, for instance) is just going to waste, anyway. We can't possibly display the art any larger than that, and anything larger will need to be downscaled, costing CPU time that is better spent elsewhere. It is almost certain to degrade the image quality as well.)
01:57:00 Quit ZincAlloy (Quit: Leaving.)
01:57:17*[Saint] honestly didn't think anyone still used AAC by choice
01:58:50SunshineDaveIm doing a personal sound comparisson between m4a ogg and mp3 before I commit to a codec to populate the player
01:59:15SunshineDaveat 320kb/s
02:00
02:01:05*[Saint] assumes a comma is missing there
02:01:10 Quit fs-bluebot (Quit: connection lost?)
02:01:18[Saint]If not, I might have a fair idea whats going on...
02:01:25 Join fs-bluebot [0] (~fs-bluebo@g231121243.adsl.alicedsl.de)
02:04:28[Saint]SunshineDave: just as a note, on TCC7801, at that bitrate, mp3 kicks some ass performance wise.
02:06:40[Saint]ALAC m4a vs. LAME 320, that is:
02:06:40[Saint]lame 320, 616.10% realtime. ALAC m4a, 483.50% realtime
02:06:57SunshineDaveI'm leaning to mp3 on the D2 at the moment it seems more clinical and the vorbis seems more laid back has ambience the mp3 lacks but unexciting
02:07:26[Saint]ogg 350 is ever so slightly better at 636.62% realtime
02:07:30fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #350 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/350 : 3Add skip length backwards setting by Richard Quirk
02:07:47*[Saint] kicks fs-bluebot
02:07:54[Saint]No, bad!
02:09:23[Saint]I can't speak for audiophile-esque airy-fairy stuff with far too many adjectives...but when its mp3 vs. m4a and we're talking strictly performance there's a clear winner.
02:10:35[Saint]The D2 has such a noisy output I'm not really sure all those audiophile type adjectives can be accurately compared, anyway.
02:10:35JdGordonthere is?
02:11:17[Saint]JdGordon: There is, yes.
02:11:36JdGordonah battery life, nvm
02:12:10[Saint]Yeah, as far as throwing adjectives at sound goes...who knows. Performace wise, definitely.
02:15:06SunshineDaveSaint you are right about the D2 output. The sound isn't what the audiophile reviews lead you to believe a few years ago
02:15:48[Saint]If you're absolutely serious about "audiophile grade" sound, get an iPod Classic
02:16:04[Saint]The output on those is so flat its not funny.
02:16:44[Saint](it also craps on the D2 in various other aspects, but sound quality is the flavor of the minute)
02:18:58 Quit krabador (Quit: It's Time To Take The Time!!!)
02:23:50[Saint]SunshineDave: http://outpost.fr/rmaa/iPod_Classic.htm
02:24:03 Quit Guest2936 (Quit: Blarglarg)
02:24:48[Saint]Awwww, shit. Where's your current ones, copper
02:25:01[Saint](classic specific, without comparison)
02:33:10SunshineDaveSaint thanks
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03:12:54***ERROR: (Closing Link: giant.haxx.se (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)) from cameron.freenode.net
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08:07:37wodzpamaury: (log) qeditor crash backtrace: http://pastebin.com/yr4e83bb
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08:11:56wodzpamaury: (log) with recent hwstub it works
08:13:30wodzpamaury: (log) BTW. what is supposed to do the hyperlink with SoC name on the lefthand side of 'Reload data' button?
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10:47:00pamaurywodz: it serves two functions 1) indicate the SoC of the backend (file or hwstub) 2) if you click, it select the right soc in the left on the left
10:49:06wodzpamaury: Thanks for explanation. Your current work on qeditor is BIG step forward in terms of usability.
10:49:18pamaurythanks :)
10:49:25pamauryI hope so, it took me a lot of work
10:49:38wodzBTW hwstub just works (tm) on my rk27xx
10:49:39pamauryI still want to be able to edit directly field of register and not only registers
10:50:00pamaurytoday I'll try with the usb analyser on the YP-C3
10:50:19wodzpamaury: Your work encourage me to work more on rk27xx reg description file
10:50:48pamaurycool :) The tool still cannot edit description file but maybe I could add this very soon
10:54:31wodzdo you have plans to work on generic pll analyzer?
10:55:58pamauryyes, the current work is a mess
10:56:05pamauryprobably not before this week-end though
11:00
11:00:36copperpamaury: any idea what can be done for my Fuze+ microsdxc card problem?
11:01:04copperas it is now, it's too unreliable for me to use it at all
11:02:20pamaurycopper: yes I still have a few ideas
11:02:33copperah, nice
11:02:52copperok, take your time, you know where to find me :)
11:03:36copperI'll just have some quality time with my iPod in the mean time
11:03:57copperugh
11:04:00coppertoo many "times"
11:05:26copperI wonder though, why SanDisk keeps insisting that microsdxc cards not be used with their DAPs
11:06:20coppermaybe it's just because they didn't implement exFAT support (for whatever reason, economical or otherwise) and formatting a card isn't covered by their warranty policy
11:06:58copperI just hope it's not something more sinister like a fundamental incompatibility with microsdxc hardware
11:07:50copperit's just weird, given that they sell both DAPs and microsdxc cards
11:07:58wodzcopper: Thats likely the cause. It would be silly if they stated support for sdxc but violating the standard wrt to filesystem used
11:10:00wodznot speaking that they could not advertise sdxc compatibility in the first place then
11:10:37copperbut they're blocking sales of their own cards
11:10:59copperthey're forcing their own DAP customers to buy cheaper, lesser cards
11:11:14copperI can't see how that makes business sense
11:12:13wodzit makes - this favoures higher capacity versions of daps
11:12:53copperhmm
11:14:38coppermax capacity on the Clip Sport is 8 gigs
11:14:56copperso that doesn't make much sense
11:15:16copperthey're not offering a device that can compensate for the loss of 32 gigs
11:15:28copper(32 GB microsdhc vs. 64 GB microsdxc)
11:16:35copperwell, I guess people who need that much storage aren't their core market
11:18:30wodzthats the point
11:19:22jn__does rockbox support uSDXC cards with other players?
11:21:41wodzformated as fat32, yes
11:22:41JdGordonwhy the heck am i getting compile errors trying to use rb->strtok_r() in my plugin?
11:22:52JdGordonerror: expected identifier before ‘(’ token token = rb->strtok_r(NULL, ", ", &save);
11:23:07JdGordon^ points to the strtok_r
11:23:59wodzis it exported in api?
11:24:16JdGordonyes
11:24:27JdGordonremoving the rb-> makes it compile....?
11:24:42JdGordonhidden #define for the sims?
11:25:30wodzsave preprocessed source and check
11:43:06copperpamaury: I was wrong earlier, I just ran into the card bug while accessing files via the file browser
11:47:43copperI just nuked my /.rockbox folder and I'm trying to run into the bug with a 100% default configuration
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11:56:19JdGordon[Saint]: ping?
11:57:30pamaurywodz (logs): qeditor crash should be gone
11:57:56PurlingNayukiSandisk has released a new player named Clip sport, which has a similar look with Clip Zip. May it have a similar hardware as well that we can fast port Rockbox to them and it'll certainly be my new toy :P
11:58:49copperthere's a bug with cabbiev2 on the Fuze+ btw
11:59:26copperwhen pressing the power button in the WPS (soft hold), the "locked" pop-up remains, though partially masked by the album art
12:00
12:01:34pamaurycopper: that's a well known bug, it has been here for ages
12:01:44copperah
12:02:04pamauryiirc it's a theme engine bug, the backdrop is not redrawn, or somehow the UI doesn't tell the engine it should redraw
12:03:26copperI guess I never saw it with my themes, because album art fully masks it on all my themes
12:03:55copperbtw, it would be nice to be able to disable that popup
12:04:02coppersince my themes have a hold switch indicator
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12:29:05pamauryPurlingNayuki: that's the hardware we are interested in, there won't be any port until someone disassemble it
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13:54:45PurlingNayukipamaury: I can't even get one easily:-(
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16:05:09pamaurydamn, this usb analyser software is soooo bad
16:05:37copperaren't all things USB shitty by design?
16:06:02pamauryno, why would they ?
16:06:56copperbecause they've only ever caused me pain
16:07:23copperand suffering
16:07:26copperand then some more pain
16:07:55pamaurymy guess is that if you remove all the USB hardware you have, you would like that there were something alike
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16:11:58wodzpamaury: Are you hunting rk27xx hwstub problem?
16:12:02pamaurytypical example of crappy software: you set a filter and it's doesn't filter, great, very useful
16:12:04pamauryyeah
16:12:31pamauryother example: you have 1M packet, you filter, there are 1000 left and yet the software does all the stuff with the 1M so it's laggy as hell
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16:14:04pamauryno to mention that half of the timer you trigger the capture, it won't capture anything
16:14:41copperget a parallel port version ;)
16:15:13wodzwell, software is usually the last thing being worked on such projects (as designing usb analyzer) and most probably long after deadline :-)
16:18:05pamauryyeah but hardware without software is useless
16:19:02pamaurywhat is the most annoying is that of course the analyser is happy as long as everything is fine and tends to crash or freeze when there are faulty transfers
16:19:12pamauryguess when you actually need an analyser...
16:25:52pamauryyeah another crash
16:30:49pamaurythis time I'm definitely fed up with it, I will finish my job on reversing its protocol so that I will never ever had to use it again
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20:07:32bertrikany more details on the clip sport, e.g. like whether is more similar to fuze+ or to the clip+/clipzip?
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20:08:57lebelliumAFAIK nobody disassembled it yet
20:09:12pamauryI wrote a message on ABI but got gracefully ignored
20:09:17lebelliumthe original firmware version is 1.09
20:09:25cereal_killerbertrik: clip sport comes with firmware version 1.09 apparently http://anythingbutipod.com/forum/showpost.php?p=644150&postcount=121
20:10:05lebelliumcereal_killer: not fast enough :P
20:10:19jn__AFAIK wireshark can dissect usb traffic, but i haven't tried it
20:10:20cereal_killeroh...right ;-)
20:10:39pamaurythis is not extremely helpful appart from the fact that imx version are usually number x.y.z and not x.y
20:11:03coppersquare display sucks for theming
20:11:05lebelliumpamaury: you can't expect a usual user to disassemble the device!
20:11:09pamaurytrying trivial things like reaching recovery mode could be very helpful though
20:11:36pamauryanyone can mess with a few buttons
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20:11:53copperIIRC the Sport doesn't have a power button (it uses the select button)
20:12:38pamaurythat works too, reach recovery mode can be achieved in many different ways
20:12:54pamaurytypically power off, hold select, plug USB and keep holding for a few seconds
20:13:00pamauryand retry with all buttons ;)
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20:13:09pamauryon the fuze+ it's volume up
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20:13:22lebelliumpamaury: easier to buy it yourself. Maybe the rockbox fund can help ;)
20:13:25copperI'm so used to refurb prices (I even got my Clip+ for free), I find retail prices quite excessive
20:14:10copperpamaury: I can't help but wonder if my sd card problem isn't just my refurb Fuze+ crapping out
20:14:24pamauryI would prefer to be sure before buying it, I don't find the player very exciting in itself though I would be happy to port it if it's imx
20:14:49pamaurycopper: could be but more likely it's a driver problem I would say
20:14:59copperokay, I'll let you do your thing
20:15:03whiskers75copper: clip+ ftw
20:15:26copperwhiskers75: too damn small
20:15:50whiskers75:(
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20:15:58whiskers75that's its speciality
20:16:25*copper is a grown man, not a little girl
20:17:08whiskers75lol
20:17:18whiskers75are you calling me a little girl? ;P
20:17:46copperno, just asserting my manhood
20:17:51copper:P
20:18:31whiskers75lol
20:18:41*whiskers75 is a grown codercat.
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20:19:28copperbesides, my refurb Clip+ has a display problem
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20:19:48coppersometimes it gets really dim, and I have to bang it against something hard to "fix" it
20:20:09coppergoddamn refurbs
20:20:24coppergot a full refund for it
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20:38:23wodzpamaury: any progress with yp-cp3 hwstub issue?
20:42:27wodzpamaury: I mean other then increased motivation for reverse engineer protocol of usb analyzer :-)
20:48:53pamauryno, I cannot make any sense of the wireshark trace and the usb analyser craps out each time I used it with the YP-c3
20:49:25lebelliumCP3 :)
20:51:19lebelliumdid the USB analyser ever work and help for something ? :D
20:51:47wodzpamaury: btw does hwstub work on your rk27xx generic?
20:51:49gevaertsOf course!
20:51:59pamaurywodz: didn't try to be honest
20:52:27gevaertslebellium: I used it for a while. The entire ipod time sync thing was done with it :)
20:52:56lebelliumoh
20:53:00lebelliumI see
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20:53:13lebelliumit's only since it's in pamaury's hands that it no longer works :D
20:53:39gevaertsOh, it's always been a bit temperamental :)
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21:00:46pamaurywodz: give me 15 min and I will test it on my generic rk27xx dap
21:14:36wodzpamaury: the easiest way is to convert hwstub.bin into rkw and rolo from rockbox
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21:31:40toehser1A forum admin on the sandisk forums posted: The 16GB version will be offered in all regions. The release for the 16GB is still a few months out. It will have the same 4000 folder/file database limit for internal and 4000 folder/file limit for external memory. These databases are not combined and must be accessed separately. Forum Admin slotmonsta 
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21:34:13ZincAlloytheir players would be so much better if they came with a dumbed down version of rockbox...
21:36:10toehser1I wonder if there could be a value-adding-market for loading rockbox onto players and selling them that way?
21:37:03gevaertstoehser1: some people are doing that
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21:41:19pamaurywodz: can you recall me how to create a rkw file ? I used scramble -rkw <bin> <rkw> but get a weird "Bad address message"
21:44:32pamauryhum, my dap freeze on boot with disk_init failed :-/
21:45:36toehser1Uh Oh! None of the product descriptions for the Clip Sport include the word "microphone"... I'm getting a bad feeling that they may have dropped the mic :(
21:46:53pamauryok faulty filesystem, now a get a rolo error: Unknown error
21:47:49pamaurywodz: ^
21:48:40pamauryok my mistake, the file system was complete garbage
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21:49:05ZincAlloyright.. on the other hand the clip zip's mic wasn't all that good..
21:49:05pamaurywodz: hwstub works on generic dap
21:49:54lebelliummaybe removing the power button and the mic helped selling it cheaper?
21:51:15ZincAlloypossibly
21:52:44wodzpamaury: which revision is your dap (A or B?) If I recall correctly its A so different then mine
21:53:18wodzpamaury: hint: check SCU_ID register value
21:53:19pamaurywodz: generic dap ? I do I know that ?
21:54:39pamauryis that relevant for the generic dap ?
21:55:28toehser1I've gotten pretty good results, actually, with a zip, if I get the levels set right, and do a bit of EQ after the fact. I care enough about having that available that I've just gone from "care mode" to "probably don't care mode". I don't use it _often_ - but when I want it, it _really matters_.
21:55:40pamaurywodz: SCU_ID=0xa1000604 on my generic dap
21:55:52fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision 44afbd3, 250 builds, 33 clients.
21:56:09wodzpamaury: yeah, thats A revision
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21:58:07wodzpamaury: There is (slight) difference in rom between A and B revisions
21:59:29fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Build round completed after 217 seconds.
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22:01:45wodzpamaury: What functions are mandatory when porting hwstub after your changes?
22:03:31pamaurytarget_init(), target_get_desc(), target_get_config_desc(), target_udelay(), target_mdelay() and you must export one variable: target_descriptor
22:04:29wodzwhat about usb part?
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22:07:03pamauryusb_drv_init(), usb_drv_recv_setup(), usb_drv_stall(), usb_drv_exit(), usb_drv_port_speed(), usb_drv_send(), usb_drv_recv(), usb_drv_exit()
22:08:00wodzok thanks.
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22:12:26wodzpamaury: I guess such define HWSTUB_TARGET_STMP ('S' | 'T' << 8 | 'M' << 16 | 'P' << 24) is restricted to 32bit width, right?
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22:14:49pamauryyes
22:15:17pamauryif you need more specific target information you can define you own descriptor like on stmp
22:15:32wodzfor now I don't
22:15:52wodzIts just that ATJ is a bit generic
22:16:01pamauryah yeah
22:16:17pamaurywell STMP too, that's why I included some target info, because the stub handles STMP36xx and STMP37xx
22:16:24pamaurybut I could have split it into two
22:16:36pamaurymaybe we can introduce a notion of subtarget too
22:16:42pamaurythat would make sense
22:19:17lebelliumAbout Archos devices: We added FMS soft lock for them recently. Would be nice to get a v3.14 to include that too
22:20:22lebelliumWe also fixed FM radio on Ondio FM
22:20:42lebellium3.13 shouldn't become the last version
22:24:19gevaertslebellium: do we actually know they still work?
22:25:03lebelliumOnly one doesn't build, no?
22:25:10gevaerts*work* :)
22:25:29lebelliumI can tell you if Ondio FM still works if needed
22:25:53lebelliumIt has a 1 week fresh build on it
22:28:41lebelliumI keep updating my Ondio FM sometimes, I helped to get the FM bug fixed recently. I believe they deserve at least one last release to include the improvements and latest fixes
22:33:27lebelliumI have the impression that the mailing list discussion about dropping the Archos support only includes people who don't own an Archos or who don't care about it. Now you have the opinion of someone who runs a 2014 build on the 2002 device :)
22:34:06wodzIn general I am not against but there is valid point that in order keep it building we cut off functionalities one-by-one
22:34:13bertrikI find it a bit sad to have to drop it
22:34:59wodzlebellium: Its really a pity amicon didn't respond. He was official advocate of archos for some time
22:38:00lebelliumI can be the new advocate if necessary. But as I'm not a dev, I'm not sure my opinion is/would be taken as serioulsy :)
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22:38:54bertrikI wonder which subsystem caused the bloat mostly for archos, perhaps we can (say) cut some stuff away in the theming for archos (as I suspect most of the size goes there)
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22:41:08wodzI think very little of recentish theme related changes affect archos. This are charcell or 1bit displays
22:44:30lebelliumwell
22:44:41lebelliumkugel's new restrictions obliged me to update my Ondio theme :D
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23:44:14[Saint]JdGordon: Hugely belated pong?
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