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#rockbox log for 2014-03-13

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00:25:23[Saint]JdGordon: One for you, sir.
00:25:26[Saint]http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,48084.new.html#new
00:25:53[Saint](same guy that wanted the tag for color depth selection)
00:26:40 Quit ZincAlloy (Quit: Leaving.)
00:26:55[Saint]A couple of the tests are "the wrong way" to do it, but...they should /technically/ behave in the same fashion.
00:28:02[Saint]But I guess its only "old hat" Rockbox peoples that know the "wrong" and "right" way to do things in the theme engine. There's several options for many cases, and we don;t exactly make it very clear what is deprecated and what isn't.
00:28:32JdGordonlong read :'(
00:28:34*[Saint] shakes a fist at the choice to support legacy themes - sane, but, godfickkinasscockdammit.
00:29:36[Saint]In hindsight "in with the new, out with the old, update or die" would've been a better choice for both the code base and documentation.
00:29:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:30:37[Saint]We don't so much have "new" and "old" syntax now as we do have "multiple ways of doing the same thing which may or may not be intended to work".
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00:33:09JdGordonyes, but removing all -duplicated- tags would just annoy too many people
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00:42:27[Saint]TheSeven: If you're not too bucy, could you please poke your nose in at http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,48082.msg227396.html#msg227396
00:42:40[Saint]*busy, even.
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01:25:27TheSeven[Saint]: as far as I understand that post, this is in fact itunes failing to restore the ipod within disk mode
01:26:16TheSeven(the "use itunes to restore" screen will start disk mode as soon as it gets connected to USB)
01:26:39[Saint]I replied since, with a basic rundown of how to get to EDM.
01:26:49TheSevenmy guess is that itunes is just screwing this up somehow
01:27:02TheSevenwouldn't been the first time, we've had lots of reports of that recently, though mostly on classics
01:27:31TheSevenwe typically recommend downgrading to itunes 9.2.1, see http://appletoolbox.com/2010/09/how-to-downgrade-itunes-10-to-itunes-9-2-1/
01:27:55TheSevennewer itunes versions seem to have somewhat buggy support for those old clickwheel ipods which apple doesn't really care about anymore
01:28:44TheSeventhat itunes version should usually just happily restore the ipod from the state that it currently is in
01:29:08TheSevenno need to even enter disk mode manually
01:31:22[Saint]I have seen cases where iTunes has no idea what's going on until it sees an iPod in EDM, though.
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01:43:35TheSeven[Saint]: "use itunes to restore" screen IS in fact EDM, just triggered by bad firmware partition contents instead of a button combination
01:43:52TheSevenit boots the very same binary once it gets connected to USB
01:44:14[Saint]Ah, indeed. So it does. I'll amend my answer.
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04:13:33alexbobpwould it be possible to have a "backlight on hold" setting on devices with software hold?
04:21:04jhMikeSI would think so
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04:22:13alexbobpI remember having it on the old fuze but it's absent on clip zip and fuze+
04:22:41alexbobpit would be especially nice because it makes it easy to actually tell if the device is on hold
04:24:04alexbobpthis is of course all sandisk's fault, physical hold switches are the best >_>
04:24:36jhMikeSthey must be getting expensive
04:25:55alexbobp-_-
04:26:32alexbobpI wonder if I could use kickstarter to launch a dap
04:27:17alexbobpbut all I really want is for them to make the fuze again
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04:54:12[Saint]alexbobp: it should be fairly obvious if the device is on hold if the theme caters for this.
04:54:27[Saint]The "is hold on?" tag makes no distinction between software and hardware hold.
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04:56:05jhMikeSthat backlight on hold feature _currently_ needs a phsical button present
04:56:56[Saint]Yeah, I suspect that was an oversight.
04:57:01[Saint]Easily corrected.
04:57:18jhMikeSnaw, it just didn't exist at the time
04:57:41[Saint]I meant when software hold was added.
04:57:44jhMikeSso long as you emulate a physical button, it should be easily patched in
04:57:53jhMikeSah
04:59:18[Saint]It might get a bit confusing if it also catered for the touchscreen only soft lock too.
04:59:31[Saint]But I suspect no one uses that at all.
04:59:42[Saint]I'm fairly sure I was the only one who ever used it.
05:00
05:00:39[Saint](its a touch region that disables all other touch regions except for itself {in order to disable itself})
05:02:08jhMikeSwhat is that used on? I'm aware it's there, but do not use touchscreen devices for music
05:03:10[Saint]I use it in a couple of my themes, but nothing "official" uses it.
05:03:56[Saint]In the free time I do get, I am trying desperately to finish a tabbed UI template to serve as a base for a new cabbie.
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05:04:54[Saint]The idea being that if I supply the templates, and some SVG art, future ports should only need to have a few size/location params adjusted and art generated.
05:05:19jhMikeStabbed? shounds intereshting
05:06:58[Saint]Currently it has three tabs, "Now Playing"; "Info/More"; and "Settings".
05:07:07[Saint]But most of it is placeholders presently.
05:08:36[Saint]The "Settings" tab isn't /really/ needed, but I wanted to use it to show off a set of simple on/off touchscreen toggles as a teaching tool.
05:09:00alexbobpwell I guess I could blame the theme... tbh I would rather the screen turn off anyways though :P
05:09:02jhMikeSI didn't know you could do tabs now
05:09:27alexbobpactually another nice thing would be if the "first keypress turns on backlight only" option could exempt the power/hold button on fuze+
05:09:39*jhMikeS is usually scrounging around in the bilge code
05:10:10[Saint]jhMikeS: There's no "make a tabbbed structure for me" tag, but I can do some magic with touchscreen variables and conditional viewports.
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05:10:34alexbobpI just want to simulate the workflow of turning the screen on and off with the power button to make the touchpanel do things or not do things :P
05:10:53[Saint]Tab touchscreen area sets (or increments, or decrements) a variable, check that variable to decide what viewport(s) to display.
05:11:22jhMikeSalexbobp: but it is already exempt if it works with the backlight off
05:12:12[Saint]Hm?
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05:12:37jhMikeS[Saint]: was wondering what alexbobp meant
05:13:48nell_hello. how is everyone
05:13:49[Saint]I was wondering what "[17:11:23] <jhMikeS> alexbobp: but it is already exempt if it works with the backlight off" meant.
05:13:54alexbobpjhMikeS: it doesn't work with the backlight off
05:14:01jhMikeS[Saint]: I take it that it needs decent screen realestate
05:14:35[Saint]...why?
05:14:51alexbobpright now if I set it so that I can turn off hold and also turn on the screen with one press of the power button,
05:15:01jhMikeS[Saint]: would it work on small displays (not phone-sized)
05:15:11alexbobpthen it also means if the screen sleeps without me engaging hold, any stray swipe across the touch panel will muck things up
05:15:12nell_ill throw my hat in the ring when this calms down.
05:15:35[Saint]jhMikeS: Ohhhhhh, right. Sorry, mixing two conversations.
05:15:53[Saint]jhMikeS: It _should_ go down to 240x320 comfortably.
05:16:04[Saint](which, iiuc, is our smallest touchscreen target)
05:16:23[Saint]nell_: No no, go nuts, we're watching. :)
05:16:29[Saint]How may we service you?
05:17:39jhMikeSalexbobp: that sounds sort of wrong if it gets screen presses without being visible
05:18:23[Saint]Yeah...software hold is a bit, weird.
05:18:27alexbobpjhMikeS: the fuze+ has a touch panel below the screen
05:18:42alexbobpand rockbox treats it as buttons
05:19:12alexbobpso it should probably be optional to disable the touch panel when the backlight is off
05:19:14[Saint](A hilariously bad touchpad at that)
05:19:18alexbobpyup
05:19:21alexbobpit's really bad
05:20:02alexbobpI ordered this: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005GFXH6S/ref=pe_385040_30332190_TE_3p_M3T1_ST1_dp_1
05:20:05alexbobpso wish me luck you guys
05:20:29alexbobpif it actually works on the fuze+ then I guess I'll almost have a comparably usable player to the old fuze for a comparable price :P
05:21:03[Saint]Errrr...that thing is HUGE.
05:21:05jhMikeSAh I see it's similar to the SA9200
05:21:36jhMikeSI would expect that to behave just like physical buttons though
05:21:47[Saint]I'm /almost/ willing to wager that that item is quite a bit larger than the DAP you're intended to fit it on.
05:21:48alexbobpoh crap you're right
05:22:07alexbobpyeah I should have looked at the pictures
05:22:18alexbobpthere were smaller similar products and I grabbed the slightly cheaper one without noticing it was much bigger >_>
05:22:33[Saint]Lets hope the hand model is a midget.
05:22:35alexbobpoh well it's been shipped
05:22:37alexbobpand it was only $5
05:22:41[Saint]Errr, little person.
05:22:43alexbobpI guess I can try to find a game for my phone
05:24:31[Saint]jhMikeS: The only thing I find unfortunate about a tabbed touchscreen UI is that there's no way to make a similar UI for the non-touch targets.
05:25:02[Saint]Even if variables were an option for non-touch, I can't think of a single target that has free keys to make use of it.
05:25:18jhMikeS[Saint]: nope, unless we extend input focus somehow
05:25:19[Saint](and the alternative would be drastically remapping things, which isn;t an option)
05:26:30[Saint]A "one theme fits all" type deal doesn't work particularly well for us in this regard.
05:29:34jhMikeSIt would likely diminish usability overall
05:30:05*[Saint] nods
05:30:46[Saint]The touchscreen cabbie in git presently is far from terrible, but, its rather obviously a non-touch UI with touch elements jammed into it.
05:30:55*jhMikeS wanted to make a crude comparison to something but then resisted
05:33:08jhMikeSI get the feeling I have to touch things, but, it's not obvious what to touch. Things don't come off as being active widgets
05:33:57[Saint]Right.
05:34:16jhMikeSIt should display with clear controls
05:34:45jhMikeSI can use it with a mouse on the sim so I know what you mean
05:35:51JdGordon[Saint]: I tried pushing skin variables and gave up
05:36:02JdGordonthere is definitly ways to get them in without extra buttons
05:36:14JdGordonbut it means customising button presses which rubbed people the wrong way
05:36:20[Saint]Yeah.
05:36:33JdGordonexcept no, we have hotkeys now :/
05:36:50jhMikeSso we have customizable button but we don't
05:37:26[Saint]The problem with hotkey is that the hotkey actions need to be defined prior to compile.
05:37:46[Saint]So we can't (simply" do a hotkey for "increment <var> foo"
05:38:25[Saint]And if we let hotkey be user defined, that's just asking for trouble with support.
05:38:37[Saint]No. *Begging* for it.
05:38:51jhMikeSwhy not event handling?
05:40:11JdGordonthere is magic that could be done, i.e let the skin register some buttons and add them to th menu
05:40:21JdGordonbut it wont work well when you switch
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05:42:50jhMikeSjust start using HTML and JavaScript :P
05:47:19Mode"#rockbox +o [Saint]" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
05:47:27[Saint]Don't temp me, jhMikeS ;)
05:47:37Mode"#rockbox -o [Saint]" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
05:48:21jhMikeS:)
05:48:46*jhMikeS can kick back though
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11:16:00pamauryalexbobp: what is motivation for "first keypress turns on backlight only" to ignore the first hold off button ?
11:16:11pamaurythat would mean you would have to press power twice, which is kind of weird
11:20:00coppermaybe trying to avoid accidental power button press
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11:21:47pamaurycopper: yeah but then how do you prevent it from being press twice ? or three times ? When will you start needing enter your password in morse with the power button to unlock ?!
11:21:51*pamaury is half-trolling
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11:22:41copper:)
11:22:45copperoh oh oh
11:23:03copperpamaury: please implement pattern drawing on the touch pad for unlocking the Fuze+!
11:23:06copper:D
11:24:36copperhttp://www.iphonefaq.org/images/archives/tweak-patternunlock.jpg
11:24:57alexbobppamaury: being able to reliably turn on the screen and operate the device without remembering if I put hold on
11:25:19alexbobpoh you misunderstand
11:25:33alexbobpI want the power button to turn off hold
11:25:53copperuh?
11:25:56alexbobpbut I don't want the track skip button to work with the screen off
11:25:56copperthat's what it does already
11:26:13alexbobpcopper: I mean with the screen off
11:26:29copperI don't understand
11:27:08alexbobpthere is a setting for ignoring the first keypress when the screen is off
11:27:17copperyou mean you want to disable the touchpad while the display is off and soft hold is off too
11:27:37alexbobpif it's on, then I have to push power twice if it's asleep and on hold
11:28:04alexbobpcopper: that'd be ideal actually
11:28:24alexbobpit's not quite what I was suggesting but probably better
11:28:46alexbobpright now I have to press power twice
11:29:18alexbobpbut if I turn off that setting, I accidentally skip tracks with the screen off a lot :P
11:30:06pamauryOn principle I agree we would need a setting for disable touchpad between: never, on soft hold, on screen off
11:30:54alexbobpjesus, fuse+ is impossible to use in the dark...
11:31:26alexbobpwait what'd be the point of soft hold if not to disable touchpad? :P
11:31:53pamauryalexbobp: it would power the screen on when you touch it (although with no effect)
11:32:11alexbobphow did this thing get through qa? do they not test things in dark rooms?
11:32:32alexbobppamaury: yeah
11:32:38alexbobpthat's what it does now
11:32:43pamaurywith soft hold, you would need to press a physical button to light and then another to unlock, with screen off you just need to press a button
11:33:10pamauryat the moment, you *really* want to use soft hold, otherwise you get loads of accidental touch
11:33:19alexbobpyeah
11:33:25alexbobptrue
11:33:42alexbobphmm... in my perfect world I'd have screen off on soft hold
11:33:54alexbobpand screen backlight infinite otherwise
11:34:02alexbobpand that makes it easy
11:34:30pamauryyou see, the problem is that there are as many settings as people, we cannot support all of them
11:34:58alexbobpthere is already that feature on devices with physical hold switches
11:35:16pamauryyeah but you cannot compare, it's just two completely different things
11:35:39alexbobpbut personally I have no idea how much coding it takes to enable that
11:36:22alexbobpbut the setting could be in the same menu with the same name at least :P
11:36:28pamauryprobably not a lot, the problem is to find where and how ^^
11:37:11alexbobpwhy can't they just make more fuse2s :/
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11:43:14alexbobppamaury: oh well, it seems like a good workflow to me, would you not want your fuze+ to behave like that?
11:45:15copper10:33:42 UTC <alexbobp> hmm... in my perfect world I'd have screen off on soft hold
11:45:23copperscreen turns off after a few seconds
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11:48:24kok3why stupid rockbox is made in C instead of C++
11:48:31kok3why their is no C++ and simple Codec class
11:48:41kok3that you could derive from to implement codec
11:48:49copperalexbobp: wait, I don't understand
11:48:51kok3Mp3Codec : Codec
11:48:56kok3public Codec*
11:49:12copperalexbobp: seems like "first press enables backlight only" works on the Fuze+
11:49:18kok3it instead uses some badly named variables/functions and shitty 1000 functions
11:49:18copperI just tried it in the sim
11:49:40kok3and there is no documentation to implement anything in rockbox
11:49:44copperkok3: you're not going to win many people over with that
11:49:57kok3copper im just saying truth
11:50:04kok3i dont understand why C instead of C++
11:50:29kok3it could be still a bit low level C++ (ex. not using boost etc.)
11:50:41kok3but it would improve code redability by 1000 times
11:51:36kok3!ops copper will anybody answer me?
11:51:55copperalexbobp: and when that setting is on, and soft hold is on, you have to press power twice to unlock it
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11:53:24copperkok3: calling people's hard work "stupid" isn't the best way to get an answer
11:53:30kok3copper i asked simple question, why C instead of C++, why they dont answer
11:53:40ikeboykok3:How about first reimplement the entire rockbox in C++ (including the assembly parts) and benchmark to confirm it doesn't slow down or reduce battery before recommending a change
11:53:48kok3copper but it is stupid. it's like sect. you dont provide tutorials or good code, i cant make anything
11:54:09kok3ikebody ARE you trying to suggest c++ is slower than c.. you better dont do this..
11:54:28kok3ikeboy reimplement? it should be c++ from start
11:54:40kok3it was obvious c++ is best language choice for project like rockbox
11:54:54kok3if it was one-man project then maybe C would be equally good
11:54:54copperPersonally, I would have written it all in BASH.
11:55:07ikeboySo use your time machine to go back to when rockbox was started and suggest the idea then
11:55:34ikeboyMy point is that it can't realistically be switched to C++ at this point
11:55:35kok3ikeboy so it seems just rockbox starters made very bad choice and now everybody has to pay for that
11:55:40kok3ikeboy i know this
11:55:48kok3ikeboy its too late probably
11:55:55ikeboyYou can say that about most open-source projects
11:56:05kok3but at least you could make tutorials ex.how to implement codec
11:56:44kok3ikeboy yes. because open source are not-commercial, nobody care about future, and that it will take 10 hours to implement thing that could be implemented in 3 hours
11:56:57kok3so they make stupid decisions and dont care about them
11:56:59jhMikeSI think there is but it's out of date. Anyway, just staring at the codecs should tell you how and what basic things are common to them all
11:57:06copperwhat codec would you like to implement?
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11:57:28kok3copper midi, better mod codec
11:57:38kok3(so 2 codecs)
11:57:43jhMikeSthere isn't alot to the basics of a codec
11:57:55kok3actually i could just make midi codec based on midi plugin
11:57:58kok3same with mod
11:59:05alexbobpcopper: the setting works fine but put it on hold and let it sleep
11:59:21alexbobpoh wait you did
11:59:31ikeboykok3:You've seen http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/HowToWriteCodecs?
11:59:34alexbobpyes, having to push power twice is not what I want
11:59:36kok3yes ive seen
12:00
12:00:09kok3im not sure, maybe i seen maybe not
12:00:21copperalexbobp: I meant, when soft hold is OFF, pressing "play" only turns on the display
12:00:44copperwhen soft hold is ON, pressing power once turns on the display, and a second time unlocks the Fuze+
12:00:54alexbobpwhich is annoying
12:01:16jhMikeShrm...I guess I did update that :p
12:01:49copperalexbobp: so you want the power button on soft hold to be immune to the "first button press" setting?
12:01:56alexbobpyes
12:01:57ikeboyCan I bump the review for g#758?
12:01:59fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #758 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/758 : 3Boost CPU before loading operations in textviewer by Avi Eisenberg
12:02:02alexbobpexactly
12:02:12copperpamaury: did you get that? ^^
12:02:23jhMikeSI should probably update it again, since time-based resume is possible
12:02:24alexbobplook I'm just making suggestions, I made several suggestions that would improve my workflow, but even if none of them get implemented I still love you all :P
12:02:38alexbobp<3 rockbox
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12:03:59alexbobpI think the most ideal fix is if I can set a backlight setting for software hold mode
12:07:24alexbobpor maybe the ideal fix is gestures that wouldn't happen by accident :P but that's gotta be more code
12:08:42alexbobpcopper thinks I'm nuts D:
12:08:48alexbobpok, I'm going to bed
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12:15:20kugeljhMikeS: ping
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12:21:03wodzhuh, suggesting C++ over C for deeply embedded application is well ... stupid
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12:28:21jhMikeSkugel: ?
12:28:45kugeljhMikeS: about g#692
12:28:47fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #692 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/692 : 3thread.c: Replace block_thread/_w_tmo with block_thread_switch/_w_tmo. by Thomas Martitz
12:28:59kugelI didnt fully understand your last reply
12:29:00jhMikeSwodz: I'll admit at times I wouldn't mind it for a few things.
12:29:42kugelwodz: depends, if you restrict to a subset of c++ it can work well
12:29:49wodzjhMikeS: sure it makes some parts easier but at considerable cost
12:30:02copperis anyone aware that the table of themes on the theme page doesn't use the entire available width in Firefox? It works in Chromium.
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12:30:20wodzkugel: People that suggest C++ in embedded development doesn't understand the term 'safe subset of c++'
12:30:25copperhttp://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?target=ipod6g
12:31:26kugelwodz: I wouldnt generalize that statement
12:31:26jhMikeSkugel: You want the blocking abstracted so that it could be implemented in alternative ways. I'm not understanding what prevents that as things are.
12:31:53kugeljhMikeS: yes, I asked you what alternative ways there are
12:32:21jhMikeSwodz: I guess stack allocs and in-place new(). Nothing needing malloc is doable here obviously.
12:32:54kugelgrr, I see I missed the new files for g#683, so you can't see how I do it
12:32:55fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #683 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/683 : 3playbacklib WIP by Thomas Martitz
12:33:15copperhttps://outpost.fr/tmp/ZID.png/ vs https://outpost.fr/tmp/5rb.png/
12:33:15jhMikeSkugel: I thought you meant suggesting a framework for alternative ways :\
12:35:08kugelahaha, wtf
12:35:34kugeljhMikeS: actually I accidentally put the new files already in git master: http://git.rockbox.org/?p=rockbox.git;a=tree;f=firmware/kernel/pthread;h=b5f309824b624fe7870a6e06fc69b21626f0f2da;hb=HEAD
12:36:19kugelthere, thread.c:216 shows why I need soem kind block_thread_switch()
12:38:13kugelbecause what I work on (playback parts running on pthreads natively, not using our scheduler) blocking and scheduling the currenth thread out has to be atmoic
12:42:32jhMikeSmight be better with a semaphore, otherwise it's racy
12:42:32pixelmacopper: looks like firefox does adhere to the width argument in the html "th" tag and chrome does not
12:43:29kugeljhMikeS: ???
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12:43:58copperpixelma: ugh
12:44:14copperis there any reason for fixing the table's width?
12:44:22jhMikeSif there's no thread waiting for a condition, it doesn't get a signal
12:44:41jhMikeSA sema on the other hand will remain signaled if the waker gets there first
12:44:55pixelmano idea, sorry
12:44:57kugeljhMikeS: what specific part are talking about now?
12:46:07jhMikeSwakeup_thread...ooooorrrr....it's because cl is always locked?
12:46:16jhMikeSat least for that call
12:47:38kugelyes, the cl is locked
12:48:25jhMikeSI suppose the difference is thread _slots_ have locks in the native scheduler as well as primitives
12:49:04kugeli used the corelock pattern for thread sync in queue.c because it's already used thoroughly
12:49:37jhMikeSa sema would make ->runnable redundant and not be racy
12:50:11kugelanyway, that's not related to the need for block_thread_switch() which you didnt seem to like
12:50:14jhMikeSIn my WIP, the queues are handled in kernel.c
12:50:37jhMikeSI think you needed access to cl?
12:50:57kugeluhm, that's not nice. I want to re-use queue.c (just that) for my work
12:52:13jhMikeSI meant the wait queue, not the event queue
12:52:40jhMikeSadd_to_list_l (the functional equivalent thereof)
12:52:54pamauryah, it's a shame kok3, I would have loved to answer him
12:53:07jhMikeSummm...yeah, I could post a copy of that stuff even though it's a rough draft atm
12:54:03kugeljhMikeS: ok, but I need queue.c (the event queue), running on pthreads, and for that I need an atomic way of block the current thread on <something> and switchting to another runnable thread
12:55:49jhMikeSsemaphore :)
12:55:53pamauryalexbobp: there is a difference between what I want and what I have time to implement and my priorities on those
12:56:06kugeljhMikeS: you misunderstand
12:56:56jhMikeSI'm just looking at what you showed. I see no reason two threads can't be running at once, one blocking while another is getting woken
12:57:16kugelregardless of how the atomic switch looks like, the function performing that switch has to have an equivalent for Rockbox and our scheduler
12:58:08kugelI'm not asking for how to implement the atomic switch for pthreads :)
12:58:40kugelI'm asking how to have an atomic switch for our "legacy" scheduler because you don't seem to like what I came up with
12:59:50jhMikeSonly because it's moving more wait queue and cl awareness into thread.c and I was hell bent on moving it away
13:00
13:00:40jhMikeSwhat is the "legacy" scheduler?
13:01:58kugelthe rockbox scheduler
13:02:32jhMikeSthe only thing atomic natively is the interrupt, not the cores. that's a bit racy and deliberately allowed
13:02:40kugelcan you suggest a way to implement this atomic switch without conflicting with your work?
13:03:19jhMikeSheh, no. I think my work is a fork and not compatible with the project as a whole, even if some improvments can be shared between
13:03:30kugelatomic as in "a single function call that does both block the current and schedule the next runnable"
13:04:48jhMikeShmmm...that's what it was like many moons ago
13:05:24jhMikeSso...combine block_threadXXX and switch_thread into one
13:05:59kugelyes that's exactly what g#692 does
13:06:00fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #692 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/692 : 3thread.c: Replace block_thread/_w_tmo with block_thread_switch/_w_tmo. by Thomas Martitz
13:07:25jhMikeSbut where is the switch in this pthread implementation?
13:07:42jhMikeSI see the block, waiting for the condition
13:08:24kugelhttp://git.rockbox.org/?p=rockbox.git;a=blob;f=firmware/kernel/pthread/thread.c;h=a80ce876e8ba255bb684adcf6ac25a54e606c184;hb=HEAD#l216
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13:12:02jhMikeSA different mutex each primitive (as corelock)??
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13:12:52kugela corelock is a pthread mutex (and a mutex is also a pthread mutex)
13:13:38kugelthe corelock protects the event queue's internal data from concurrent access in the same way as on COP builds
13:14:42jhMikeSyeah, I get that, but you're passing differnt one to the condition variable for each queue
13:15:04jhMikeSI'm not sure how that's gonna work
13:16:00kugelyes, the the corelock is per-event queue
13:16:28kugel(only talking about the on-pthreads version)
13:18:22jhMikeSbear with me. I'm tired and reading unfamiliar stuff.
13:19:16kugelthe same corelock has to be taken before wakeup_thread(), and wakeup_thread() is called only from the event queue, so it's alright
13:19:53jhMikeSyes, I just got that, so I agree it's technically safe
13:21:11kugel(there is no wakep_thread from mutexes because native mutexes are used, and there sems are not used at all (compiled out))
13:22:48jhMikeSsems are mostly in low-level stuff, tes, and codecs
13:22:51jhMikeS*yes
13:25:16kugelfor codecs only in multicore builds
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13:29:00jhMikeSso you're just doing this to support an event queue?
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13:33:03jhMikeSpersonally, I'd just reimplement them directly as pthread calls
13:36:34jhMikeSMy feeling is that they'd be simpler that it first appears from the native implementation
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13:39:37kugeljhMikeS: I considered that first, but it's really complicated
13:40:28kugelthere is no native pthread data structure that allows the operations we do on event queues (e.g. peeking (especially queue_peek_ex()), so most of the logic of queue.c would have to be duplicated
13:41:57kugelso much would be duplicated that only thread sync would be left, and then we arrive at the same result
13:43:46kugelplus by using queue.c win32 compatibility comes for free (using pthread-win32); which is not the case for pipes, msg queues and others
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13:56:16jhMikeSI suggest sem_wait/sem_post. If the thread hasn't arrived at sem_wait yet, it will just pass through the unblocked
13:57:26jhMikeSno need for a combo function
13:57:51kugeljhMikeS: i still need queue.c for the event queue?
13:58:19jhMikeSyeah, that's in that case
13:58:57jhMikeSyou can unlock the corelock though, after changing the wait queue then just call sem_wait with nothing locked
13:59:09kugeli need a combo function so that queue.c can be the same for our scheduler and for pthreads
13:59:42jhMikeSit would be
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14:02:10kugelyou mean void switch_thread() { sem_wait(&sem); } ?
14:02:11jhMikeSI guess switch_thread would actually do the block
14:02:17jhMikeS:)
14:02:58kugelno
14:03:36kugelit's undesirable that sems remember the count (such that subsequent sem_wait don't block)
14:04:05kugelbecause event queues don't call switch_thread() if there are aready messages
14:04:07jhMikeSwhy?
14:04:34kugelso a queue_post() would cause a switch_thread() to go without blocking when it should block
14:05:07jhMikeSqueue_post doesn't do one
14:05:33kugelit calls wakeup_thread unconditionally
14:05:34jhMikeSif there are no threads in the wait queue, it shouldn't post anything
14:06:07jhMikeSthe native one does nothing if no threads are found at the queue head
14:06:24kugelthe "contract" for wakeup_thread is to wakeup the thread inly of its blocked, and do nothing (no side effects) if it isnt
14:08:06kugela wakeup_thread (doing sem_post) does have a side effect, causing subsequent switch_threads (doing sem_wait) to do nothing
14:08:23kugelI already considered this and found the semaphore model doesnt fit
14:09:10jhMikeSline 1371, thread.c
14:09:20jhMikeSno thread found, no action
14:09:42kugelexactly
14:09:47jhMikeSbasically, it shouldn't post anything in that case, just return with no action
14:09:48kugelthis is what I said
14:10:03jhMikeSno extra counts
14:10:20kugelsem_post does never do nothing
14:10:42jhMikeSjust don't call it if the head is NULL
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14:11:22jhMikeSactually, you're doing that already
14:11:56kugelhmm
14:12:29jhMikeSthe head won't change with the corelock held, which is the idea
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14:13:26jhMikeSa bit more troubling is the timeout though
14:13:47kugelthere's sem_timedwait()
14:14:22kugelhm, IIRC there was another problem with semaphores (i really considered them already before I implemented the cond stuff)
14:14:38jhMikeSwhat was that?
14:15:25kugeldon't remember
14:15:58kugeli think I'll try your suggestion
14:16:33jhMikeSt->obj_cl should be saving the lock pointer, so no need to pass it
14:17:27jhMikeSshould/could if "IF_COP" is not a null macro there
14:18:18kugelwell, a impl with sem wouldnt have to deal with the corelock at all
14:18:42jhMikeSthe queue internals themselves need mutual exclusion still
14:18:52kugelyes sure
14:19:18kugelbut not switch_thread() itself
14:19:26kugelso no need to pass the corelock anyway
14:19:28jhMikeSindeed not
14:20:05jhMikeSexplicit wakeup and timed-out wait queue removal do have to hold it
14:21:06kugelisnt it racy if I check the head after the corelock is released?
14:21:41kugel(I think I wanted the corelock-release and thread-block to be atomic)
14:22:00kugel(which only works with conditions)
14:22:13jhMikeSit is, thread could time out before waking thread checks the head
14:22:19jhMikeS*for instance
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14:23:06kugelso a switch_thread() that checks the head before calling sem_wait() is racy
14:23:19kugelargh
14:23:29jhMikeSyes
14:23:42kugelswitch_thread() doesnt need to check it, only wakeup_thread() and the corelock is held during that
14:23:48jhMikeSit's not done natively that way
14:23:54jhMikeSright
14:24:09jhMikeSand when removing during a timeout
14:25:22jhMikeSwhich is what is done currently: lock object, wake thread implicitly, unlock it
14:26:23jhMikeScats are being violent; I'd better feed them :)
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14:32:14kugeljhMikeS: how do you mean "and when removing during a timeout"?
14:34:05jhMikeSin the err == ETIMEDOUT case, have to lock the corelock before it pulls itself from the wait queue
14:35:40kugelyou mean before calling remove_from_list_l(t->bqp, t)?
14:35:48jhMikeSyes
14:37:38kugelok, but also unlock again because queue.c will re-aquire the lock before checking the event count
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14:38:40kugeladd_to_list_l needs to have the lock too, no?
14:39:04jhMikeSyes
14:39:19kugeluhm
14:39:49kugelbut switch_thread is called without the lock
14:39:51jhMikeSbut that already has it on entry as it is
14:41:21jhMikeSand somehow you need to indicate the block type to switch_thread (by setting something in the thread block?)
14:42:07jhMikeSyes is is called that way, it's fine at that point
14:42:43kugelbut I'd need to lock again for add_to_list_l
14:43:30jhMikeSwhy?
14:43:42kugelit must be called with the lock taken?
14:43:45jhMikeSyes
14:44:04jhMikeSdo that list stuff in block_thread
14:44:22kugeloh, you suggest I should also implement block_thread
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14:44:30kugelnow I understasnd
14:44:42jhMikeSand *w_tmo of course
14:45:07ii_does rockbox have software balance or only supports it if hardware has balance / dual volume?
14:45:46jhMikeSii_: it has it. hifiman ports use it
14:46:34kugeljhMikeS: alright, thanks for the help, I will try that
14:46:59jhMikeSkugel: I guess block_thread just has to set timeout to 0 or something to tell switch_thread which sem_* to call
14:47:04jhMikeSnp
14:47:05kugelperhaps I'll hit the road block that I envisioned for semaphores if I don't remember again
14:48:10kugelmight be that it was just that, switch_thread() not knowing about the timeout
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14:49:35kugelbut i should be able to stash the timeout value (if any) in some TLS area
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14:50:30jhMikeSstruct thread_entry has it already
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14:58:03ii_how do I at least find the code for software balance? I can see it set into sound_prescaler.balance in firmware/sound.c, but can't find it used anywhere
14:58:06jhMikeSkugel: the current code does end up grabbing the lock thricely to get through queue_wait_w_tmo.
14:59:13jhMikeSii_: It's actually implemented in firmware/pcm_sw_volume.c
14:59:57ii_aha! great, now I see
15:00
15:01:45jhMikeSin the hifimans, the dummy codec volume function actually calls the software volume. the rest of rockbox doesn't know the difference
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17:42:09saratogawhat kind of monster would write a codec in c++
17:44:33copperlol
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17:47:19pamauryI think this guy didn't really know what he was talking about
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18:40:03ii_on ibasso dx50 I have an access to single hardware volume control (no L/R), which I want to combine with software balance control, implemented in pcm_sw_volume.c
18:41:17saratogawe should probably have a software balance DSP
18:41:17ii_would it be a good idea to implement hardware volume control in pcm_set_prescaler() or I understand that wrong?
18:41:40saratogait would be nice for things like player with line out where you can't always use the DAC gain (IIRC the X5 was like this)
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19:27:26ii_Looks like I've found the way to combine hw volume with sw balance. In audiohw_set_volume(int vol_l, int vol_r): max(vol_l,vol_r) goes to pcm_set_mixer_volume (hardware) and {vol_l+max, vol_r+max} go to pcm_set_master_volume (pcm_sw_volume.c)
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