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#rockbox log for 2014-04-04

00:00:00 Quit kuldeepdhaka (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
00:00:51 Join [Saint] [0] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint)
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00:55:19fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3New build round started. Revision 8375b69, 253 builds, 29 clients.
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01:00:46fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Build round completed after 329 seconds.
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05:08:54adnapgevaerts: I don't have a utf8 codepage option
05:09:28adnapIs rockbox written in C? Could it be that it doesn't use wchar_t when writing pathnames to the database?
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05:10:35adnapWhat I find unusual is that datebase_changelog.txt is unicode, and Japanese id3 metadata is preserved
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05:57:06[Saint]are japanese characters FAT safe for paths/filenames?
05:57:29[Saint]I didn't think so. But I wouldn't ask if I was entirely sure.
05:58:29 Quit TheSeven (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
05:59:01[Saint]Oh. They are indeed.
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06:03:27[Saint]Hmmmm. I don't have UTF8 as a default codepage option either.
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06:07:41*[Saint] makes a fresh build to make sure
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06:15:01[Saint]Aha. That did it.
06:15:33[Saint]adnap: what is the version of the build on your device?
06:16:03[Saint]System -> Rockbox Info -> Version
06:16:38[Saint](only the last six numerals are interesting to me no need to type it all out)
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07:18:25adnap[Saint]: 120610
07:21:29adnap[Saint]: Well, when the device is mounted, the paths look fine. I guess Linux does that
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07:35:41pixelmathat looks like a very old build. You should try a development version
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08:04:26adnappixelma: Will that fix the database issue? Also, I need to backup my database I think, but I don't know how
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09:37:59pixelmaadnap: I can't tell for sure if it'll fixes your issue but the build you're using is 1.5 years old and it's very possible that some bugs got fixed in the meantime... :) [Saint] also reported earlier that a new build brought the UTF-8 option in the default code page setting back. You can back up the complete .rockbox folder if you want to which also contains your fatabase files.
09:40:24pixelmaupdating basically just means unzipping the new build over the old (what the Rockbox Utility would also do). Only necessary files would be replaced though and the database usually is not affected. Maybe if the protocol or supported tags changes or so, but I can't remember anything happening there lately - so those should be safe and usable anyway
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09:48:01adnappixelma: Okay, I'm going to try updating
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18:36:17copperHow should I save backdrop images with The GIMP?
18:36:27copperwith regards to colors
18:36:49copper"16 bits R5 G6 B5"?
18:37:52pamauryI think rockbox handles most formats but internally we use RGB565 on most targets yes
18:38:20coppermeh
18:39:34coppermmmh
18:40:29copperI get better results with "16 bits X1 R5 G5 B5" apparently
18:40:34copperno idea what that is
18:41:19pamauryprobably the last bit is unused, whatever that could mean
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19:04:58coppergod
19:05:11coppermanaging colors for Rockbox is a nightmare
19:07:13pamaurywhy is that ?
19:09:12copperI can't figure out a way to work with a XCF (gimp) "master" image, export and then display the exact same color values in the sim
19:09:26copperno matter what I do, the colors changes
19:09:28copperchange*
19:09:45copperI'd need to use the exact same color space as Rockbox
19:10:08copperwhich may be possible, but I don't know how to do that
19:10:46pamauryI think that's more a Gimp problem
19:13:15copperprobably
19:21:56 Quit kuldeepdhaka (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
19:28:03soaphave you verified the values are different or only that they look different, copper?
19:28:09copperthe values
19:28:30copperand they look different
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19:31:27soapright
19:31:50soapunder Gimp... "View" ... "Display filters" what's being used?
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19:32:55soapIf "Color Management" is in the list of used filters you will want to remove that. Gimp is a color managed workflow, the sim is not.
19:33:36soapThat alone won't solve your problem of /values/ not matching, but it is a needed step if you want to get /appearances/ to match.
19:33:57soap(and thus I think will speed up the problem solving)
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19:41:13copperwill tyr
19:41:14coppertry
19:42:07soapand you're saving the xcf files out as bmp, right?
19:42:55soapAnd I'm assuming this is Gimp 2.8 which has a forced internal XCF workflow? IIRC 2.7 doesn't and thus whatever you open is "left alone" until export.
19:43:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:45:27soapAnd last question - as I think I have an idea where your export problems are coming from - but what is the source of the images which fail? IOW are you creating files elsewhere and then editing in GIMP and then exporting to BMP? Or are you creating out of whole cloth in GIMP?
19:45:55copper1) bmp, yes
19:45:59copper2) gimp 2.8, yes
19:46:04copper3) all in the gimp
19:46:17copperI start off as a new image in the gimp, RGB
19:46:27copperi.e. 24 bit
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19:49:32soapand I assume, as you would probably know if you HAD mucked with it, when you go to Image... Mode... Assign Color Profile... that the Current Color Profile is sRGB?
19:49:36copperwell, when saving as 16 bit X1 R5 G5 B5, colors are close enough
19:50:08copper"current color profile: sRGB built-in"
19:50:32soapyea, I assumed it wasn't that easy.
19:51:04soapSo you create this in 24 bit, then exported to (what appears to be the wrong, but hey it's working) 16.
19:51:17soapHow are you verifying values don't match?
19:51:29copperloading in the sim and making a dump
19:51:36copperand loading the dump in the gimp
19:52:15copperI think my problem is that I'm assuming that the RGB values in the sim color picker are compatible with the same values as 24 bit RGB
19:52:24copperisn't that assumption wrong?
19:53:11copperI'm super confused about the whole thing
19:53:17soapare you comparing the values of the 16bit GIMP export to the 16bit dump?
19:53:30soapor the 24bit working space to the 16bit dump?
19:54:42copperthe former
19:55:24soapIF the sim is 565 and IF you export a bmp in 565 (not 1555) format
19:55:46soapI would expect the sim dump of the loaded file to be bit identical else a bug.
19:56:34soapyou could test this with a few files of solid colors and see what the change is.
19:56:40copperbut saving to 565 changes the color too much, from the 24 bit original
19:56:51copperI'm only using solid colors :)
19:56:56copperfor this theme I'm working on
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19:59:39soapam I hearing right, then, that what you probably want to be doing is working in 565 so that there is no error upon export?
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20:00:42copperif that's what Rockbox displays, then yes
20:05:11coppererm, what you said
20:05:31soapLet me fire up PS, I'm 99% sure GIMP won't let you /work/ in 565, but I think PS might
20:09:35soapbecause what GIMP doesn't native give you is a way to control how it changes 888 to 565, and I THINK that is your problem.
20:12:35coppermakes sense
20:17:24soapthough to come back to an earlier thread - if a 565 file opened in GIMP does not look like a 565 file in the sim there is another problem
20:17:55soapI think there should be no expectation that a 1555 file opened in GIMP would look like the sim
20:18:28soapTHough I can believe (don't know why, but don't know why not) a 1555 file looks more like your 888 source than a 565 file does for whatever reason.
20:20:07copperyeah the difference in fidelity is visible
20:20:12copperto the naked eye
20:20:18soapbetween which two?
20:20:42copperbetween a 24 bit XCF exported to 565 BMP and 1555 BMP
20:21:05copperbetween a 565 BMP export and a 1555 BMP export
20:21:20copperthe latter is closer to the 24 bit original
20:21:40copperI can't say if that's always the case, or only the case with this particular theme I'm working on right now
20:26:27soapright - I can believe that.
20:26:50soapbut the expectation that 1555 will look right in the sim is a poor one.
20:27:08soapit's a crutch we need to find a way around using - get you a 565 workflow.
20:27:28copperwith a color profile?
20:28:26soapthat won't solve the problem of you making edits in 888 space and creating colors which don't exist in 565
20:28:58soapI believe that's the fundamental problem - you're creating colors which don't exist in 565
20:29:34soapand so when you go to export you get either a nearest neighbor or a dither or something - but GIMP has no native tools to let you pick /how/ 888 -> 565
20:30:10soapand whatever black box it uses to go 888 -> 565 is not as pleasing to you as the black box it uses to go 888 -> 1555
20:30:53soapbut as much more pleasing as the 1555 black box may be the resulting output isn't going to get rendered w/o _another_ change in the RB sim.
20:35:00copperI guess I could use a 565 to 888 RGB converter, so I could pick a color in the Rockbox color picker, convert the value to 888, and use that value in the gimp
20:36:36copperhoping that the gimp would correctly downsample to the original 565 value when exporting to 565 BMP
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20:54:41soapI smell what you're cooking, but If I'm Thinking About This Correctly the simpler way would be to work in 565 or gain control over the 888->565 process.
20:54:49soapwhat does #gimp think?
20:55:02soapand, let me actually move over a desk and fire up PS.
21:00
21:01:23coppersoap: your help is very much appreciated, but it's getting late over here, I'm gonna have to pick this up again tomorrow
21:01:53coppertimezones and all
21:03:38soapcopper, PS won't let me do it either.
21:03:51soapThis HAS to be a solved problem. Must not be thinking about it correctly.
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21:30:53jackshow doi ask for help please
21:31:34amayerjacks: you dont need to ask to ask. just ask your question
21:31:45jacksok thanks
21:32:47jacksi use audio bokks because of failing sight, i installed rockbox but find it impossible to read the screens, uninstalled rockbox now cannot access sansa clip plus
21:38:25lebelliumhum Rockbox doesn't seem to support well the Cowon M3 docking station.
21:38:54jacksi can see sansa clip in windows 7 and all files are there, yet when i removed rockbox the player turns on with the message plug usb cable and i cant turn it off
21:39:09gevaertsjacks: you probably didn't uninstall the bootloader
21:40:05gevaertsHold the power button for 30 seconds or more to turn it off, boot the original firmware by holding the left button, and then reinstall the original firmware (i.e. the .bin file you got from the sandisk website)
21:40:19jackstried that and get the message cannot uninstall boot loade
21:41:47jacksah thankyou...getting firmware upgrade in progress
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21:43:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:44:25lebelliumHum in the Cowon M3 manual there is "Add a note about the charging trick and place it here?"
21:44:30lebelliumnobody knows about that?
21:44:39lebelliumanybody*
21:44:42gevaertslebellium: amiconn knows about it
21:44:58gevaertsit's "interesting", IIRC
21:45:40lebelliumthe problem is that I only have the US AC charger here and I don't have a US>EU adapter here so I need USB charging
21:46:02lebelliumbut I only get the OF "USB connected" screen
21:46:05lebelliumnot sure it's actually charging
21:46:15gevaertsCan it actually charge from USB?
21:46:19lebelliumthe X5 can
21:46:27*gevaerts has news!
21:46:44gevaertsThe M3 and the X5 are not entirely the same :)
21:46:48lebelliumthe M3 I don't know. But since it's rockboxed, I hoped I can run Rockbox instead of the OF when pluging the USB cable
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21:47:22gevaertsAnyway, I don't know. amiconn did the port, so he's the best person to reply
21:47:22lebelliumI hate those stupid "USB connected" screens where you don't know if the battery is actually charging
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21:48:11lebelliumI know that, but he doesn't look very active, I haven't seen him replying here for months
21:48:31gevaertsYou didn't look properly then :)
21:48:41lebelliumhum
21:49:05amayerjacks: we do have themes that would make it easier to see
21:49:35amayerjacks: http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=1122&target=sansaclipplus
21:49:35gevaertslebellium: granted, one "pong" in months isn't much, but ist's only a week ago
21:49:49lebelliumarf
21:49:52lebelliummissed it :D
21:50:05lebelliummaybe there is something interesting here http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=17485.0
21:50:06lebelliumI'll read
21:52:09*gevaerts recommends always asking the question with a ping, otherwise you run the risk of being away when the other person then pongs
21:52:57lebelliumwhaouh
21:53:08lebelliumpixelma's post helped!
21:53:35lebelliumA trick you can't know without knowing!
21:54:07lebelliumnow I have the OF "charge" screen
21:57:30amiconnOne of those loose ends :\
21:57:43jacks@amayer, thanks have tried them but still not so clear, it turned off after firmware update, so turned it back on and getting the rockbox logo then file not found then plug usb cable again. the only way i can get it to load to sansa again is by holding left button when i turn it on. but soon as i turn it off it reverts to plug usb cable
21:58:19lebelliumhey amiconn. Nice to see you. Still waiting for the M3 dualboot `\o/
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21:58:53*amiconn essentially stopped developing for rockbox, mainly because of the git transition
21:58:54gevaertsjacks: when you reinstall the original firmware, make sure to use the .bin file you got from sandisk, *not* the one that was changed by rockbox utility to add the bootloader
21:59:33gevaertsIf you're not sure which one you have, re-download it
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22:00:19lebelliumarf. I should have teold the guys to move to git *after* dualboot was working on M3 then :(
22:00:23lebelliumtold*
22:00:26jacksok thankyou, will go look for it
22:01:54lebelliumit's always a pity to have to choose between OF and Rockbox when you are a DAP collector and want both...
22:02:00amiconnDual boot will probably not happen, at least from my side
22:02:15lebelliumI know that, I was just joking since you're around :)
22:02:18amiconnUSB charging - maybe, if I ever get my head around git
22:02:46gevaertslebellium: collect two of each. Easy!
22:03:24*amiconn usually doesn't want the OF at all on a DAP, especially not ones as bad as iriver's, or cown's
22:03:36lebelliumgevaerts: not a bad idea! But finding a 2nd M3 in France may be difficult. Well finding one anywhere becomes difficult
22:04:27lebelliumamiconn: does that mean dualboot on X5 is not from you? I don't remember
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22:10:24jacks@gevaerts, thankyou, all back to normal now , i can actually see the screen, help very much appreciated
22:10:32gevaertsGood :)
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