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#rockbox log for 2014-04-11

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07:50:28TheSevenkugel: pong
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07:52:54TheSevenif HAVE_USB_CHARGING_ENABLE is defined, and usb_charging_maxcurrent_change is called, it should draw 0mA if the arg is <100, 100mA if it is between 100 and 499, and 500mA if it is >=500
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09:45:08copperTheSeven: FS #12971
09:45:09fs-bluebothttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12971 3iPod Classic charges on USB even with "Charge During USB Connection" set to "no" (bugs, unconfirmed)
09:47:23kugelTheSeven: hey. I just wanted to ask if you feel like coming to devcon
09:52:39 Join latenite [0] (~latenite@p57A9E898.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
09:53:20lateniteHi folks, are there plans to support the "Sansa Clip Sport"?
09:54:30lateniteThing is I bought it because I owned Clip v1 and Clip+ and now I bough Clip Sport without checking RockBox support at all..JUST to see its not supported ...I hope JET :D
09:54:43latenites/jet/yet/
09:55:02copperlatenite: no such plans AFAIK, its hardware is problematic
09:56:01copperit's totally different from the Clip Zip and the other Sansa / SanDisk DAPs
09:56:53coppersee http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=48014.0
10:00
10:02:21latenitecopper, oh nooooos
10:02:31lateniteI looked so nice
10:02:40latenitebig display, large battery
10:02:55coppersorry :-/
10:03:09lateniteso I will let amazon swap it for a clip+ then?
10:03:22lateniteno there is a zip also.
10:03:47lateniteis the zip supported? at least it has color display
10:04:16coppersupported targets are listed on the rockbox.org front page http://www.rockbox.org/
10:04:50lateniteClip Zip ...nice. I will just swap it
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10:21:35latenitecopper, thank you for pointing out. NOTE to SELF: do not guess a device is supported, manufacturers may just not give a damn about rockbox compatibilty although they aheir previous device are famous @ rockbox
10:21:47latenitethat is such a shame for sandisk
10:22:10copperI'm pretty sure they never do :P
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10:40:05ParkerRlatenite, Zip is nice
10:40:09ParkerRBeen loving mine
10:40:13ParkerROLED screen
10:40:19copperwhat
10:40:42ParkerRWhat, what?
10:40:50copperI very much doubt the Clip Zip display is OLED
10:40:54ParkerRhttps://cdn.mediacru.sh/Uf1YPDla1739.jpg https://cdn.mediacru.sh/-PGVlVJEsIsN.jpg
10:40:56ParkerRIt is
10:41:24ParkerR"According to the diagnostic mode of the original firmware, the display can apparently be one of two types: Visionox or WiseChip. The Visionox display could be a Visionox M00230/M00231 OLED module, the display controller is unknown. The WiseChip display appears to be controlled by a SEPS114A OLED controller. The tuner chip is the SiLabs Si4703, which is the RDS capable brother of the SiLabs Si4702 (used in several other Sansa players). "
10:41:48ParkerRhttp://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaClip#Sansa_Clip_Zip
10:42:25copperthat's gotta be the suckiest OLED display ever
10:42:36ParkerRHow so?
10:42:48copperit's notoriously bad
10:43:26ParkerRSeems fine here... granted there was some ghosting in the Rockboxed them with a bunch of black text on the screen but dark themes look fine
10:45:18copperwell everyone says it's worse than the Fuze+ display, which I know to be quite bad as it is
10:45:56ParkerRWell never had a Fuze+ to compare, heh
10:46:16copperthanks for the info though
10:46:46ParkerROh I remember what it was
10:46:50 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury)
10:47:06ParkerRChanging "backlight"level made the black test ghost bad
10:52:24ParkerRcopper, lowest brightness setting https://cdn.mediacru.sh/4qL6OmdchJK8.jpg
10:54:07ParkerRAnything above 3 looks fine though
10:55:43ParkerRGeeze that camera sucks at macro
10:57:52lateniteParkerR, I hat Clip v1 and clip+ and DISliked battery life. Can you somehow compare Clip Zips battery life?
11:00
11:01:38ParkerRlatenite, havent really done any tests but it seems to last a little bit (can listen to songs for a bit and I think it only gets down to about 60%
11:03:15lateniteParkerR, nice. So I just packed up the SportDRM devil and ordered the zip...
11:03:20latenitelets see how things go
11:03:41ParkerRSportDRM?
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11:04:50ParkerRlatenite, still has everything you'd expect. Microphone, FM radio with RDS
11:05:19ParkerRFor $30 it's been treating me well
11:14:15lateniteParkerR, are you talking about the "Sport" or the "Zip"
11:14:18 Join zoktar [0] (~zoktar@unaffiliated/zoktar)
11:15:08ParkerRlatenite, Zip
11:21:58lateniteok nice. I just called the Sport the SportDRM because of the chip that it has. As i understand, THAT is the reason why it will not be able to run rockbox
11:22:33gevaertsNothing to do with drm
11:24:18lateniteoh ok, I just read a forum thread....but sure there they "say" a lot
11:24:28lateniteso why is it not supported then?
11:24:39lateniteId really like to know
11:24:45pamauryit's because the chip is so damn weird and has so little memory (as far as we know)
11:24:56ParkerRProbably just a completely untested CPU
11:25:04ParkerROr that heh
11:25:21 Join wodz [0] (~wodz@iwl138.internetdsl.tpnet.pl)
11:25:40wodzdo we have a setting for touchstrip sensitivity?
11:26:35ParkerRWhat device?
11:27:39ParkerRwodz, ^
11:27:57*gevaerts bets the answer is "any" :)
11:28:23ParkerRI was thinking iPods maybe since that's the only touch strip I can think of
11:28:32gevaertsipods don't have touchstrips
11:28:35lateniteParkerR, so chances are that in the future....we might get so see rockbox on clipSport? or is that NOT going to happen at all?
11:28:40wodzI know about HAVE_TOUCHPAD_SENSITIVITY_SETTING but don't know if I can reuse this
11:29:21ParkerRlatenite, probably not. As gevaerts mentioned it's most likely very little memory
11:30:34gevaertsAs far as I know, nobody has yet properly looked at the sport. The first indications looked fairly bad, which means people probably weren't willing to spend money on them, but there might be things we don't know about that would make a port possible
11:30:38wodzwell, we don't know how much memory it has. This are only speculations based on what ATJ states about the chip.
11:30:57gevaertsStill, it's an entirely new chip as far as rockbox is concerned, which means it's a lot of work
11:31:42pamaurywodz: I think you have reuse it, but the you need to define touchpad_set_sensitivity or whatever it's call
11:31:58latenitegevaerts, the thing is: I am not particular interessed in the Sport, BUT in the last generation CLIP.
11:32:28lateniteWhat if there was NO rockbox CLIP thats "fairly" new at all?
11:32:41latenitewhich actually is the case right now.
11:33:10gevaertsI have literally *no* idea what you're talking about
11:33:14lateniteI dont think I would want to buy a "clip v1" anymore...seeing the colordisplay and other features new player s have
11:33:57latenitegevaerts, I mean: the form factor of the player is super nice and extraorinary
11:34:08wodzpamaury: How does it work actually?
11:34:50latenitegevaerts, having rockbox in such a player is just great. But therefor rockbx would have to be portable to a fairly new generation of the CLIP family
11:35:32latenite...and THERE I see a danger, with ne new Sport breaking the line of support for players LIKE THIS to come
11:35:37latenitesee what I mean?
11:35:43wodzlatenite: rockbox IS portable it is a matter of effort needed if the platform is capable enough
11:37:17latenitewodz, same problem. IF the rockbox devs concidder the new-CLIP-family not worth the efford. There would be now new rockbox-CLIP
11:37:42latenitewhich would be really sad. Because the idea of the CLIP is just great
11:37:59ParkerRIf say there was a new Clip with capable hardware then there most definitely would be a port
11:38:07wodzlatenite: If you are so worried about this why don't you start the port yourself instead of unproductive rant?
11:38:12ParkerROne device with low specs isn;t going to ruin interest
11:39:18lateniteParkerR, for me as a "consumer" the specs are not low. They are great. BIG battery, big color display in a CLIp
11:39:56lateniteAnd as far as sandisk goes....the menory is enough for THEM to play flac and stuff audio people want
11:40:20gevaertsSo what's your problem with it?
11:40:33ParkerRBecause they know the hardware. Same would go for rockbox if we had more documentation on the chip
11:40:42gevaertsIf the sandisk software is so good, use it!
11:40:52lateniteAnyhow, I am not able to make rockbox run on the Sport. I just wish a rockbox dev sees how users liek me would want it to work
11:41:19gevaertsRockbox ports have never had *anything* to do with how much users like specific devices
11:41:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:41:33latenitegevaerts, the split sdcard and equilizer...tons of other rockbox stuff...thats whats wrong/ misisng
11:41:34ParkerRThere are users like you who are devs also. It just takes the right combination o interest and documentation to actually make it work
11:41:41gevaertsSo yes, we see how much you want it, but that's entirely irrelevant
11:41:56latenitegevaerts, no its not good...its like a 6 out of 10
11:42:26gevaertslatenite: so maybe the hardware is good enough for what they do, but not good enough for the extra features rockbox has?
11:42:45lateniteprobably. yes
11:43:07wodzThe truth is WE DON'T KNOW
11:43:21latenitewell lets hope next CLIP..lets call it clip-zip-sport-extreme will be better for rockbox to fit on :D
11:43:34copperif there even is one
11:43:39gevaertsAlso, clip isn't an acronym
11:43:46latenitewodz, how come you dont know?
11:44:05latenitecopper, why not? its like the 4th gen
11:44:13latenitewhy not a 5th
11:44:20gevaertslatenite: because *you* haven't told us the details
11:44:33wodzlatenite: Tell me how much ram it has and I'
11:44:35copperlatenite: shrinking market
11:44:44wodzll tell you if rockbox port is possible
11:44:45wodzsimple
11:44:48latenitegevaerts, oh ok...well while I still own it....what can I tell you??!
11:45:12latenitewodz, hmm how can I find out about the ram?
11:45:25lateniteI have linux box....if that can help
11:45:36lateniteor would I have to take it apart?
11:46:02wodzlatenite: no it can't. taking apart will not help either (as we know what is inside).
11:46:59wodzlatenite: you can either get documentation or reverse engineer the thing.
11:47:00ParkerRwodz, Not sure if this helps http://www.actions-semi.com/en/productview.aspx?cat=87&id=118
11:47:10ParkerRAhh ok nvm then heh
11:47:22ParkerRThat was from a picture of the internals
11:47:59latenitewodz, well that is something I can not do. I wish I could
11:48:28ParkerRlatenite, "taking apart will not help either"
11:48:31lateniteIn short: How is reverse engineering done for these players?
11:48:43ParkerRSo even if you could it would be useless
11:49:04wodzlatenite: for example JTAG scans, firmware disassembly, etc.
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11:51:35latenitewodz, where / how, if I wanted to get into it for the first time, would I start learing these things?
11:51:48latenitelike stuff like arduino?
12:00
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12:59:32pamaurywodz (logs): what do you mean ?
13:00
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13:06:40pamauryah understood your question, you must define HAVE_TOUCHPAD_SENSITIVITY_SETTING
13:06:40pamaury and then {MIN,MAX}_TOUCHPAD_SENSITIVITY_SETTING and DEFAULT_TOUCHPAD_SENSITIVITY_SETTING
13:07:13pamauryand implement touchpad_set_sensitivity
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13:41:24***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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13:57:42*ulmutul reading the logs
14:00
14:01:19ulmutulwodz: I've experimented with reusing of TOUCHPAD_SENSITIVITY prior to the g#772 patch, but I found the benefit small in relation to the expense of a new menu entry.
14:01:23fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #772 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/772 : 3Vibe500: change scrollstrip and button sensitivity to defines by Sebastian Leonhardt
14:02:02ulmutulIf you rather like something like a "speed" setting, wait just a few more days...
14:02:03ulmutulI'll have some time next week and then finally will release a new scrollstrip driver with any setting you like :P
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14:04:40 Join wodz [0] (~wodz@iwl138.internetdsl.tpnet.pl)
14:05:58wodzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S1_MP3_player 'Supports MPEG1/2/2.5 Audio Layer 1, 2, 3 (MP3) and WMA. Ogg Vorbis also supported since at least 2006, though this is not typically listed on the player's packaging' So it may be that atj2127 uses DSP core for audio decoding.
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14:09:00wodzulmutul: I am not talking about vibe500 driver
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14:10:41ulmutulWhat a shame! ;)
14:19:20pamaurywodz: could be one of those weird 24-bit DSP that were popular once
14:20:08wodzcould be, but who knows
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21:36:02wodzanyone know how \opt{touchpad} is picked up? apps/features.txt doesn't have one
21:41:16pamaurywodz: probably set in the configure file of the device
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21:43:23pamauryin manual/platform/sansafuzeplus.tex
21:43:23pamaury\edef\UseOption{\UseOption,touchpad}
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21:44:29wodzyeah, figured this out
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22:08:47wodzsaratoga: Could you review g#784 and improve if needed?
22:08:50fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #784 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/784 : 3manual: Add missing Frequency setting description by Marcin Bukat
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22:10:10kiwicamHi everyone. Has anyone looked at this device for Rockbox http://n9ewo.angelfire.com/de1125.html There's a picture of the inside lower down but if it's not clear I'd be happy to take mine apart.
22:11:35kiwicamI have the Degen 1127.
22:12:05wodzyou know that ports are not by request, right?
22:12:20kugelpamaury: such opts should be sourced from features.txt really
22:12:21kiwicamNow.
22:12:30lebelliumwhat is that? Rio PMP 300 clone or what? :D
22:12:50wodzif someone find it interesting to do the hard work the port happens
22:12:59pamaurykugel: I didn't write the Fuze+ manual
22:12:59kiwicamNo idea. Great speaker on the 1127.
22:13:29kiwicamIf someone were interesting I would be happy to provide a 1127 gratis.
22:13:34pamaurybut yeah it should probably use features.txt
22:13:41kiwicams/b interested.
22:13:52kugelpamaury: oh I didnt mean to point finger a finger at you, I was just saying
22:14:36pamauryno problem, just to say that I mostly grepped for touchpad, nothing more ^^
22:15:14pamauryI wonder how practical it would be though because of the different possible feature: touchpad and touchpad sensitivity (I'm not sure one requires the other)
22:18:13kugelyou can add whatever you can express with the preprocessor :)
22:27:21TheSevenkugel: depends on when and where it is. probably not though.
22:27:41kugeli think the location is pretty decided (warsaw, poland)
22:30:57wodzTheSeven: Do you want to miss such a good oportunity to fix usb on n2g
22:31:00wodz?
22:33:30TheSevenhm...
22:33:39*TheSeven tries to remember what exactly was the problem there
22:34:19TheSevenit's been WAY too long ago since I have last worked on those things
22:36:37wodzTheSeven: some change in usb subsystem broke it. The problem is that no one knows why. Another thing was the merge of n2g driver and amsv2 BUT it was proven that 'old' n2g driver still fails with newer usb stack.
22:37:11wodzTheSeven: And finally you implemented new driver which was never ported to rockbox.
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22:38:32TheSevenattempting to port that over seems to be the straight forward thing to do then, assuming that the USB stack itself is working properly
22:38:46TheSevenare there any known USB weirdnesses on other targets that might be coming from the core?
22:39:35wodzno
22:40:06wodzall know problems are believed to be in the lowest layer
22:40:10gevaertsOh, we also need to move the nano2g and the classic to the detect-by-actual-traffic model...
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22:41:16wodz... which needs usb thing sorted out first
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22:41:24gevaertsYes :)
22:42:23TheSevenwhat's the observed behavior?
22:42:27TheSevenhard lockup?
22:42:33TheSevenor just not enumerating right?
22:43:09wodznot enumerating right
22:46:58TheSevenso it fully recovers when unplugging, unlike the classic a while ago?
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22:47:07TheSeven(that one is also misbehaving on windows, right?)
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22:51:01wodzI tested long time a go, can't remember details
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23:11:45kugelTheSeven: yea, the devcon would be an wesome chance to sort it out collaboratively
23:12:10kugeland warsaw is not too far away :)
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