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#rockbox log for 2014-04-16

00:01:07fs-bluebotBuild Server message: 3Build round completed after 369 seconds.
00:03:09kugelsaratoga: i pushed the change
00:03:27kugelbut I forgot to credit you :( sorry about that
00:03:34kugelbut huge thanks for looking into it
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00:16:07saratogaas long as its fixed
00:44:28 Quit ender (Quit: The evolution of languages: FORTRAN is a non-typed language. C is a weakly typed language. Ada is a strongly typed language. C++ is a strongly hyped language.-- Ron Sercely)
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10:26:33copperenglish question: if I speak of Mozart's Requiem, should I say "The Requiem Mass in D minor _by_ Mozart" or "The Requiem Mass in D minor _from_ Mozart"?
10:27:01copperis "from" ever used in place of "by" in that context?
10:27:23copper(moderately off-topic, it's for the themes I'm working on)
10:27:46[Saint]How so?
10:27:57[Saint]You shouldn't be doing any formatting
10:28:00gevaertsI'd say "Mozart's Requiem Mass in D minor" :)
10:28:18copper[Saint]: what?
10:28:19[Saint]You'll drive yourself nuts with edge cases
10:28:19gevaerts[Saint]: this is obviously combining different tags
10:28:31gevaertsBut yes, edge cases will appear
10:29:16coppersuch as?
10:29:31[Saint]Assuming sane metadata.
10:29:42copperuh?
10:30:01[Saint]And the wide and varied combinations it can be missing/present
10:30:06copperI already have a case for no metadata present
10:30:39copperare there other cases that I'm not thinking of?
10:31:22gevaertscopper: where does that "The" in your example come from? The metadata, or your theme?
10:31:38[Saint]And the by or from.
10:31:46[Saint](Same question)
10:31:50gevaertsThe by or from is from the theme
10:32:01[Saint]Ick.
10:32:25copperer, I didn't put the "the" in there for any particular reason
10:32:42copperI actually copy pasted the wikipedia article for Mozart's Requiem :)
10:32:51copper[Saint]: why ick
10:32:56gevaertsRight :)
10:33:14CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
10:33:14*gevaerts would not attempt to add a "the"
10:33:19copper[Saint]: when I make a complete sentence about what I'm currently listening to, I have to use a preposition
10:33:52[Saint]And if any one of the tags is missing the whole things falls over.
10:33:57gevaertsIf you're restricting yourself to that preposition, I think you should be fine
10:33:57copperI'm listening to "Get Lucky" by Daft Punk from the album "Random Access Memories"
10:34:09[Saint]And it looks weird if any value you use it present but incorrect
10:34:14gevaerts[Saint]: the theme engine supports conditionals these days!
10:34:40[Saint]You'd need to go pretty deep to make this work in all cases without looking weird
10:34:42*gevaerts thinks this will work fine
10:34:49[Saint]Like, insanely so.
10:34:50copper[Saint]: can you trust me to figure out metadata conditionals at this point? :)
10:35:05gevaerts[Saint]: are you saying there should be *no* themes that assume proper tags?
10:35:15copperyes let's not use tags at all!
10:35:31gevaertsSurely for those people who do actually tag their music properly, it's nice if there is a theme that makes use of that?
10:35:40copper08:33:57 UTC <gevaerts> If you're restricting yourself to that preposition, I think you should be fine
10:35:44copperwhich one? "by"?
10:35:48[Saint]gevaerts: no, not at all. But trying to form a valid sentence from it makes it substantially more difficult
10:35:55gevaertsI'd go for "by", but I'm not a native speaker
10:36:10*gevaerts votes to do the experiment
10:36:13[Saint]When its just a list of values, wrong tags don't really matter as much
10:36:27gevaertsI'm sure copper will find out if there are a significant number of edge cases
10:36:27[Saint]Try make a sentence out of it though...
10:36:32copper"by" kinda conveys the idea that the artist is the performer
10:36:36copperIMO
10:37:27copperand btw, Rockbox doesn't know about "PERFORMER"
10:37:43gevaertsI don't think so
10:37:59*gevaerts thinks "from" sounds odd
10:38:13copperin French it's pretty clear cut
10:38:15[Saint]It does, yes
10:38:24[Saint]By is the go.
10:38:29copper"by" for the performer and "from" for the composer
10:39:05[Saint]Think of it the same as a written work.
10:39:13[Saint]Books aren't "from" an author
10:39:22copperah, good point
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10:39:45copperso it's not the same as in French
10:39:47copperdamn
10:39:47gevaertscopper: I don't think "by" and "from" are exact matches for "par" and "de" (which I assume you're talking about)
10:39:49[Saint]Np. English is...fun.
10:39:51copperthe distinction is so useful
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10:40:03gevaertsWord for word translations tend not to work well :)
10:40:07coppergevaerts: yeah that's what I'm thinking of
10:40:29copperokay let's rephrase the issue
10:40:49copperwill "by" ever look / sound weird in any cases where the artist / composer metadata is present?
10:41:53gevaertsI can't think of any cases, but there must be some. Few enough to matter though I suspect
10:42:26copperugh
10:42:42gevaertsI mean, I'm *sure* some band somewhere has tried to make this case fail :)
10:42:43copper"by Mozart" makes me picture a weird looking dude playing at a piano bar
10:42:54[Saint]Are you translating or forcing a language?
10:43:01copperwhat?
10:43:02[Saint]That would be a decider I'd say.
10:43:18gevaertscopper: try making that picture disappear. That's the correct way to say this :)
10:43:28copperI guess I'm trying to convey my French language sensibilities to English, which isn't my mother tongue ;)
10:44:00[Saint]If it has translatable strings present, I can't say that "by" won't look weird - but perhaps for other reasons.
10:44:38[Saint]I don't really like to force a language in a theme, but that's me.
10:45:05copperuh
10:45:28copperare there special theme tags that get translated automatically?
10:46:10[Saint]There's a few translatable strings that are trivially reusable in themes.
10:46:33[Saint]But if you're asking it sounds like you're not using any and forcing English so its not a problem
10:49:01copperokay, I'm just gonna take the more sane approach of doing what I like for myself and waiting for someone to complain about it :)
10:49:01[Saint]You can use %Sx (iirc) to translate any string in english.lang
10:49:19[Saint]Fair enough. ;)
10:49:35[Saint]I drove myself bonkers with locale support
10:50:13[Saint]And self healing metadata lists
10:50:22[Saint]Ugh....flashbacks.
10:50:46[Saint]I'll have wps themed nightmares again tonight.
10:52:14copper[Saint]: http://youtu.be/St98rOLZlEs
10:59:41copperin other news, The GIMP's color picker still gives me RGB 888 values from RGB 565 images that apparently don't exist as RGB 565 values
11:00
11:00:18copperseems like the gimp always translates color values to RGB 888 no matter the source
11:00:26copperand sometimes, something gets lost in translation
11:01:34copperand, it also turns out that I can't use my red / green filters systematically, because the end result doesn't always work (to compensate for the iPod's display)
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11:19:29pixelmaspeaking of which - have you tried using 1bit images and the draw rectangle thing (with %Vf/%Vb) with your theme instead of having to work out bitmap colours? From the screenshots I saw so far I'd imagine this could work out
11:19:35pixelmacopper: ^
11:21:59pixelmathe only thing that probably doesn't work is antialiasing 1-bit images. Hmm, thinking about it I wonder how antialiased fonts work then
11:22:44copperdrawing rectangles with that theme wouldn't be very practical
11:22:52coppererm
11:22:57copperwait, I don't know what you meant
11:23:15copperI'm using many shades of gray right now, I can't use 1 bit images
11:23:28copperhttps://outpost.fr/tmp/qUo.png/
11:25:53pixelma1bit images will take foreground colour (for the "1" part I think, usually shown as black in your graphics editor) and background colour (for the "0" part, usually shown as white)
11:26:19copperyes I know
11:26:44copperoh
11:27:27copperbut then we're not supposed to layer viewports over one another
11:28:00copperin any case, it would be a lot more complicated than using a backdrop
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11:41:31[Saint]layering viewports is fine as long as you know that dynamic content will fuck it up and draw order is "as parsed".
11:41:45[Saint]If its all static content, go for it.
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13:58:37copperPodOne, PodTwo and Ash updated on the theme site
13:59:49coppernext, I think I'm gonna try a modification of Googley
14:00
14:00:04copperI'm still fuzzy on what I can do with it
14:01:46copperI need to optimize the real estate more
14:02:02copperwhile keeping a visual balance
14:07:41copper4:3 is such a difficult aspect ratio to work with, when album art is involved
14:08:05copperI'm surprised Apple on started using a portrait aspect ratio with the iPod Touch
14:08:09copperonly*
14:10:21coppertheir first UI actually sucked
14:10:59copperer
14:11:49copperthe Nano 4G was in portrait mode
14:12:06copperah but that came after the Touch
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19:12:27tm1000any ops in here?
19:13:38copperask your question
19:14:19tm1000this is more about a former user of your channel named nirvbew or nirv, he's been flaming up a storm in OUR channel and I see he used to cause quite a stir in here
19:21:25coppermust have been before my time
19:21:38copperwhat channel is that?
19:23:34tm1000#freepbx-dev
19:23:41tm1000freepbx is a voip platform
19:23:52tm1000he harassed us last year as well
19:23:58tm1000anyways just wanted to know your thoughts. no big
19:26:33gevaertsThe name does ring a bell
19:26:50coppertm1000: if he annoys you, can't you just ban him?
19:27:18tm1000copper: yeah but then he changes nicks and pms me and ugh. just wanted to talk to some normal people about it
19:27:25tm1000see what your thoughts were :-)
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19:27:40tm1000http://www.rockbox.org/irc/logs/rockbox-20110305.txt
19:27:41gevaertsRight. 2011
19:27:44tm1000yeah
19:27:55tm1000"gevaerts, if i had a dick this is where i'd tell you to suck it"
19:27:58tm1000yeah terrible
19:28:17copperwhat about his IP / hostmask
19:28:35copperand / or go to #freenode
19:28:57tm1000copper: changes the hostmask
19:29:03gevaertsHe's on a dynamic ip and persistent, and he changes the hostmask
19:29:23tm1000and Ive been there they just say to ignore. which is fine. and I might as well just do what gevaerts did and voice the channel
19:29:27tm1000seems more fun anyways
19:29:38gevaertstm1000: there's +q you could try
19:29:45tm1000yup
19:29:55tm1000i've +g myself as well which stops the pms from him
19:31:42gevaertsI don't think we did anything special
19:32:09gevaertsHas he ever used a proxy? Maybe just ban on ip and hope you only have to redo that once a day or so?
19:32:18tm1000It is truly sad to see someone the same in 2014 as they were in 2011
19:32:33*gevaerts nods
19:32:40gevaertsYou'd think people grow up
19:32:45tm1000gevaerts: he did the proxy thing once and I ended up banning all of MN
19:33:02tm1000which later in the week caused problems from real users in MN wanting help
19:33:14gevaertsscorche: do you remember if we did anything other than wait for him to get bored?
19:34:05copperit's more like about realizing one's own faults and patterns
19:34:15copperthough I guess you could call that "growing up"
19:34:29tm1000copper: its the internet…..I am not sure if that computes for most of the "interesting" ones :-)
19:34:32gevaertscopper: well, he left here, but that's three years ago and he's still at it
19:34:51coppergevaerts: I repeated the same patterns for over a decade
19:36:32coppersometimes it takes a crisis for one to really change
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19:37:58copperalso, IRC attracts a large portion of dysfunctional people
19:38:03copperthere's no avoiding it
19:38:24tm1000copper: true story.
19:38:30*tm1000 looks at /me
19:38:36gevaerts:)
19:39:58copperI'd just ignore the guy until he gives up
19:40:12copperany time he changes nicks, /ignore
19:40:24copperI'd be surprised if he lasts a month
19:40:54tm1000copper: yeah did that last time. or +g does the whole "I have to pm you first before you can PM me" and last year he did this and now a year later he is back so it will probably last a week and then he will be gone again im sure
19:40:59copperif he has a confrontational character, he'll just move on to another community
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19:41:12tm1000copper: ….maybe back to you guys ;-)
19:41:13tm1000ha
19:41:14scorche|shgevaerts: i dont recall, ectually
19:41:19tm1000I dont wish that on you though
19:41:36coppertm1000: I don't really care these days
19:42:18copperany time I get insulted or just pounded on, I just stop the conversation
19:42:32copperbecause, why should I care
19:42:59copperthe guy probably has his own flaws and patterns, and is probably no less nutty than I am
19:43:37coppervOv
19:44:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:44:51copperI can't get affected by a guy who's nuts.
19:45:12copperand if the guy keeps at it no matter what, then it's a pretty good idea to leave IRC for a while and do something more interesting
19:45:28scorche|shcopper: we get it...
19:45:55copper^ like this guy
19:46:40scorche|sh...
19:47:20copperhe's been riding my ass forever
19:48:03scorche|shso, when are you going to "just stop the conversation"? - or do you continue to plan on discussion off-topic crap in here?
19:48:47copperright about now
19:48:55scorche|shok, thanks
19:48:57coppernp
19:51:09tm1000gevaerts: copper scorche|sh anyways. thanks for your time and input all
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