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#rockbox log for 2014-04-20

00:02:35 Join jhMikeS [0] (~jethead71@c-68-43-2-35.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
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01:08:30 Join user472259 [0] (~user@pool-98-114-206-101.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)
01:09:55user472259greetings! i'm having an issue trying to make for the ipod classic 6g
01:11:17 Quit teythoon (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
01:11:51user472259configures ok... but make fails with http://pastebin.com/XK4Tr0Bu
01:12:22user472259only change i've made is to the usb_vendor_id and product_id :\
01:12:23 Join teythoon [0] (~teythoon@mail.jade-hamburg.de)
01:12:36gevaertsWhat *exact* change did you make?
01:12:43user472259http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=43493.0
01:13:05user472259line 242/243 in ipod6g.h
01:13:38user472259rockbox/firmware/export/config/ipod6g.h
01:13:58gevaertsCan you paste the lines from your copy of the file?
01:14:09gevaertsI mean, those specific lines
01:14:16*gevaerts doesn't need to see the rest of the file
01:15:07user472259thanks for the help gevaerts
01:15:08user472259#define USB_VENDOR_ID 123a
01:15:08user472259#define USB_PRODUCT_ID 456b
01:15:12gevaertsRight
01:15:16gevaertsYou left out the 0x bit
01:15:34user472259yep. so 0x123a
01:15:48gevaertsYes, and 0x456b
01:16:03user472259thanks again :D
01:18:55gevaertsYou're welcome :)
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10:46:11copperis anyone looking into the iPod USB Vendor/Product ID problem on OS X?
10:47:20copperisn't it pretty much the only thing holding off OS X users from using their iPod with Rockbox?
10:53:30[Saint]The only thing anyone can do is apply to OpenMoko for our own IDs.
10:53:43[Saint]But that needs to be very well orchestrated and professional.
10:53:53[Saint]Best handled by the Swedes most likely.
10:54:39[Saint]Letting a user input their own ID is _a_ solution, but its not very ethical at all.
10:54:52[Saint](someone that wasn't us or them paid for it)
10:55:02 Join ygrek [0] (~user@108.59.6.97)
10:55:07copperWho are "the swedes"?
10:55:17copperI've seen them mentionned a bunch of times
10:55:33copper(I'm reading your post about the USB thing btw)
10:56:40[Saint]LinusN, bagder, Zagor
10:57:15copperwhat's special about them?
10:57:21[Saint]It doesn't necessarily need to be handled by them, but it would be best coming from a founding member, someone who can represent Rockbox.
10:57:28copperah ok
10:58:09copperdoes installing emCORE on OS X work?
10:58:46[Saint]I believe so - I don't really know. It should.
10:59:12[Saint]The Mac will freak out about the end result, but it should still allow the install.
10:59:34copperI meant, with a modified Rockbox build with different USB IDs readily available, would a virtual machine be needed at all?
10:59:45copperI wouldn't mind hosting such a build
11:00
11:01:31[Saint]I think it should really be something the user needs to achieve, as distributing someone elses V/PID isn't really that ehtical.
11:01:50[Saint]If its taken from a device they already own, its not /as/ bad.
11:02:03[Saint]Obviously you can do what you want, though.
11:03:36[Saint]If the user is installing an unsupported Rockbox build from an unsupported loader, they should /probably/ be prepared to get their hands dirty.
11:04:41copperI'm sure I already asked, but I can't remember the answer: aren't there unused IDs?
11:05:15copperunassigned*
11:05:28[Saint]Thats territory I'm unsure of myself, but I guess it would be really hard to guarantee there wasn't a collision.
11:05:55copperjust trying to figure out the less sucky workaround
11:07:13copperuser472259 earlier used your imaginary values earlier :P
11:07:18copper123 456
11:07:36[Saint]Its only a few cases that freak out about it - some dumbass car stereos, and Macs. AT least with all the other iPods, there's disk mode - but, not the Classic.
11:07:46[Saint]bah, coffee in my shift key. :/
11:07:55copperhmmm, disk mode?
11:08:13copperas in, iTunes lets you use your iPod as a storage device?
11:08:18copperthe Classic has that
11:08:30[Saint]Not with emCORE it doesn't.
11:08:42copperhmm
11:08:48[Saint]The original FW is completely obliterated.
11:08:52copperright
11:08:55copperoh
11:08:56[Saint]Its the only iPod install that does this.
11:09:09[Saint]Which is why its not really a massive issue right now.
11:09:13copperthe OF would talk to iTunes to tell it it wants to be used as a storage device?
11:09:59copperevery once in a while I see OS X users complaining that they can't use Rockbox
11:10:18coppermaybe not a massive issue, but the users are there
11:10:47coppera lot of Head-Fi members
11:11:04[Saint]I think we can trigger disk mode on USB plug for some iPods. Not sure if the Classic could, but I'd speculate yes.
11:11:15 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury)
11:11:27copperI wonder if the head-fi build now has modified USB IDs
11:12:08[Saint]Oh, heh - I just read that - someone actually built a binary with the bullshit ID I posted? :)
11:12:25copperapparently!
11:12:30[Saint]I probably should've tried to check that wasn't assigned. :-/
11:12:40copperthe "Imaginary Devices, Inc." didn't throw them off
11:12:45copperlol
11:12:45[Saint]I hope its not.
11:12:47[Saint]Hahaha
11:13:04[Saint]Oh shit, I thought it would be clear. Whoops. Heh.
11:13:14*[Saint] shrugs
11:15:29copper09:11:29 UTC <copper> I wonder if the head-fi build now has modified USB IDs
11:15:33copperdoesn't look like it
11:15:38copperhttps://www.dropbox.com/sh/b5xbw6cp4ikfxwn/MjELjmDNJ_
11:16:56copperhttp://www.head-fi.org/t/532426/ipod-classic-rockbox-its-happening
11:17:02copperthat thread needs to be updated
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11:18:21copper"Will I lose the data on my iPod when installing/updating emCORE/Rockbox?
11:18:21copperNo, versions since r836 won't erase anything that's on the filesystem on the iPod. The media that's already on the iPod will work after it is copied with a program that copies media then it can be put back on the iPod."
11:19:38[Saint]Yeah - I'm not sure how correct that is.
11:20:18copperstrangely, I seem to recall experiencing both cases: one where the data wasn't erased, one where it was
11:20:28copperI can't recall for sure
11:21:53copper[Saint]: http://www.head-fi.org/t/532426/ipod-classic-rockbox-its-happening/3015#post_10453203
11:23:01[Saint]yay - unsupported builds. :-/
11:23:06[Saint]I love them.
11:24:07copperbecause of the patches, or because of the modified USB IDs?
11:24:33copperfor the latter, Rockbox doesn't yet provide a solution, so what are they to do?
11:24:50[Saint]If people never ended up here or the forums because they have some issue with someone else's ancient build with the super l337 hacks included, it would be all fine and dandy. However...
11:25:48[Saint]Its enfuriating diagnosing an issue and then finding out they're using some months old pacthed build from fuck knows where with no sources.
11:26:03user890104[Saint]: the main problem with mac installs is that OSX doesn't like UMSboot's filesystem and refuses to mount it because it's superfloppy formatted (no partition table)
11:26:15copperasking if it's a Head-Fi build would save you a lot of time, I think :)
11:26:47user890104if someone makes a umsboot version that launches emcore instead of umsboot, then use the python stuff to run the installer, it should work fine
11:27:19user890104but then the user would be unable to copy media, because the hard disk gets superfloppy formatted as well
11:28:01user890104the only (easy?) solution would be to use my emcorefs wrapper, which i recently tested on a mac and it still seems to work
11:28:25copperhow about distributing a Linux "live" distro to copy onto a USB drive?
11:28:36[Saint]I wouldn't call emcorefs /easy/, but its definitely a valid solution.
11:28:40ParkerRcopper, for what purpose?
11:28:53user890104live cd is also an option
11:29:03copperfor installing emcore / rockbox without fiddling with virtual machines
11:29:11ParkerRAhh
11:29:24copperpossibly with some BASH script that walks the user through the process?
11:29:56user890104installing xcode from the app store, then typing "make" in a terminal is easier than editing umsboot's source code to include a partition table, then rebuilding it, right?
11:31:05user890104copper: there's a bash script that does exactly that IIRC
11:31:11coppernice
11:31:45user890104it's a bit ugly, though :) http://websvn.freemyipod.org/filedetails.php?repname=freemyipod&path=%2Ftools%2Finstall-classic.sh
11:39:37copperI seem to remember a file on Linux that lists all vendor and product IDs?
11:39:46ParkerRlsusb
11:39:53copperhttp://www.linux-usb.org/usb.ids
11:41:01copper[Saint]: looks like vendor ID 0x123a and product ID 0x456b aren't currently assigned :)
11:41:16copperfrom that list ^^
11:43:28coppernot a bad example after all
11:43:37 Join Vrek [0] (~lao@optima1074.o2.carnet.hr)
11:46:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:46:56[Saint]phew.
11:49:17Vrekis it OK to use Replaygain and Prevent Clipping in Rockbox at the same time?
11:49:42Vrekor only one can be ON at the same time?
11:49:49copperboth
11:50:00Vrekok, ty
11:50:08copperprevent clipping is meant to be used with replaygain enabled
11:50:24Vrekoh I see
11:50:42copperthe alternative is to set Prevent Clipping to off, and set the "preamp" value to something sufficiently low
11:50:50copperlike -3 dB
11:51:03Vrekand that would also prevent clipping?
11:51:38Vrekso which setting is better to use? preamp or Precent Clipping?
11:51:54VrekPrevent Clipping
11:51:59Vrek?
11:53:59copperpreamp, IMO, because that preserves Replaygain's purpose
11:54:23Vrekaha, so how can I be sure 3db is low enough to prevent clipping?
11:54:27copperPrevent Clipping will further reduce volume in order to, well, prevent clipping, but then that album / song won't have the same loudness as your other albums / songs
11:54:27Vrek-3db
11:54:50copperwell I have a BASH script that scans my entire collection and tells me the lowest possibly preamp value
11:55:02Vrekthat sounds nice, how do you use that?
11:55:14copperbut -3 dB is a safe bet
11:55:20copper-4 dB maybe
11:57:22[Saint]I go for the range of highest and lowest replaygain values /2
11:57:33copperwe talked about that :)
11:57:42[Saint]generally works out to -6dB for me I think.
11:57:43copperthat makes no sense
11:57:51[Saint]Its a good ballpark.
11:57:51Vrekwhere do I get that script?
11:58:11copperhttps://outpost.fr/stuff/preamp.sh
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11:58:46[Saint]iirc its only flac, though, yes?
11:59:00Vrek_what is?
11:59:13copperyup
11:59:18coppermy script
11:59:28Vrek_ok
11:59:40Vrek_got dc'd
12:00
12:00:11copperit's a function of replaygain value and peak value
12:00:39Vrek_yeah, I've read about that, peak value is then used to prevent clipping
12:01:02Vrek_but I'll use preamp
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12:02:06coppermy "optimal preamp value" for album gain is -2.6 dB
12:02:14copperbut for track gain it's -7.38 dB
12:02:56copperI guess I would just set the preamp to like -6dB and be done with it, if that doesn't make your device too quiet with your headphones
12:03:22Vrek_yes, I'll do that, and I have IEM's so I'm pretty sure they wont be too quiet
12:04:50Vrek_23 ohms
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12:07:25copper[Saint]: can't we just set the vendor id to 0x123a and product id to 0x456b and monitor the list of assigned IDs to make sure it doesn't clash with anything?
12:08:33*[Saint] shrugs
12:09:12copperI don't really see a problem with that
12:09:50coppera BASH script in a cron could download the list periodically and check the IDs
12:12:32copperthe "optimal" solution just isn't happening
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12:13:28copperthe problem has been known for a while and the workaround is easy
12:13:51copperand I don't see how it would hurt anything or anyone
12:14:04[Saint]I believe this is on the DoItRight list.
12:15:34[Saint]Ah, nope.
12:16:06[Saint]Probably should be.
12:16:54copperI'm just gonna host that build
12:17:11coppervanilla Rockbox without any patches, just modified USB IDs
12:18:38copperis it OK if I host the binary and just the patch for the USB IDs, or do I have also host an archive of the entire source code?
12:18:48copperhave to*
12:20:55[Saint]You need to be able to provide the full source that compiled that binary.
12:21:56copperdefine "be able"
12:22:06copperlike, if someone asks?
12:22:21[Saint]yes.
12:24:30copperok
12:24:31kugeljhMikeS: ping
12:25:26[Saint]copper: just make sure that they come crying to you for support. ;)
12:25:33kugelcopper: just the patch is fine with me
12:26:04[Saint]kugel: its fine with me too, but, /technically/...
12:30:08[Saint]Though I'm not even sure if copper lives in a locale where the terms of the license are actionable or not, even if someone did get anal about sources.
12:30:51[Saint]But, yeah, to my knowledge you need to be able to provide the complete source that compiled the work.
12:34:17kugelonly if someone asks for that, and providing the patch reduces the chances for that to a minumum :)
12:34:57[Saint]right, but you can't necessarily safely bet on that.
12:36:10kugelsure you can, as long as you're able to generate the complete source when it comes to that point
12:36:58kugelalternatively taking off the build also works
12:38:13[Saint]'taking off the build'?
12:41:00kugelstop making it downloadable
12:41:58kugelanyway, this talk is waste of time.
12:42:22[Saint]errrr...that doesn't work for the people you've already distributed the build to. You can't just say "Oh, I'm not distributing it anymore, so you can't have the sources".
12:45:23copperit's ok, I'll be able to give a source tarball to anyone who asks
12:46:21copperincidentally, is there a way to create a clean source tarball from a git clone?
12:46:28copperwithout the git stuff
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12:48:31[Saint]I'm not sure if there's a way to do it automagically.
12:51:47coppergah
12:51:59copperI can't run "git stash" without providing my identity?
12:52:38[Saint]Hm?
12:53:52coppernm
12:55:05 Quit kuldeepdhaka (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
12:57:45copperhttp://caudec.net/rockbox/rockbox-ipod6g-532b814M-140420-usbid_0x123A_0x456B.zip and http://caudec.net/rockbox/latest/rockbox-ipod6g-usbid_0x123A_0x456B.zip
12:57:56coppersame URLs with .diff instead of .zip
12:58:11copperthe second URL always points to my latest build
12:59:26copperhttp://caudec.net/rockbox/latest/rockbox-ipod6g-usbid_0x123A_0x456B.diff
13:00
13:14:48copperthe build will be updated automatically every day
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13:27:22copper[Saint]: posted in your thread: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,43493.msg227914.html#msg227914
13:27:57copperI hope this is an acceptable third-party solution for which there is no official one
13:28:14copperthat didn't sound quite right
13:31:39copperoy
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13:31:56copperforum clock is off by 9 minutes
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13:44:01copperis there a way to make a build without plugins?
13:44:12copper(for me, not for distribution)
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13:46:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:46:20coppermaybe a combination of "make" targets?
13:46:33KlarionCan someone tell me if Rockbox plays 48khz files natively? I've read that it resamples them to 44khz and then the file is worse in quality not just becaues of the less frequency range. Is this true? I searched but couldn't find straight answer.
13:47:00gevaertsKlarion: current development builds can be set to use 48kHz instead of 44.1kHz
13:47:01copperKlarion: you can change the output sampling frequency to 48 kHz
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13:47:53Klarion_got DC
13:48:07copper11:47:02 UTC <gevaerts> Klarion: current development builds can be set to use 48kHz instead of 44.1kHz
13:48:29copperbut it's one or the other, everything will get resampled to that (unless the file uses the same sampling frequency)
13:49:14Klarion_OK I understand that. So old builds resample the file and that decreases the sound quality beyond just the frequency range?
13:50:49 Quit Klarion (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
13:54:37copperah, I can set ENABLEDPLUGINS to no
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13:56:28copperKlarion: the new resampler should be good enough
13:59:13 Quit Klarion_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
14:00
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14:13:51kugelcopper: there is "make bin" and "make codecs"
14:14:08kugelbin does only the main binary and codecs just the codecs
14:14:17kugelmost of the time make bin is sufficient
14:21:11coppermeh, "make zip" builds the plugins
14:28:09kugelyea, because the zip should contain everything
14:28:42coppersetting ENABLEDPLUGINS=no works
14:28:53copperI'm using BASH scripts anyway
14:29:01copperso I don't have to do it manually every time
14:30:19gevaertsRemember that you can't really distribute pluginless builds license-wise :)
14:31:58copperI know, I don't plan to
14:32:01copperit's just for me
14:32:20copperthe one I distribute is a normal "make zip" build
14:34:10copperI'm cleaning up my sim setup
14:35:23user890104copper: about the Mac issue, it should also be possible to change the usb ids in the rockbox fallback image, that's distributed together with the emCORE installer
14:36:04user890104that would be a straight-forward approach for the mac users, as long as they use the fallback image for transfers and the regular build for listening to music
14:37:21[Saint]There's a devcon coming up.
14:37:43[Saint]perhaps the openmoko stuff can be discussed then.
14:38:00[Saint]s/discussed/finalized/
14:38:40copperuser890104: ah nice
14:39:12[Saint]building emCORE isn't trivial, though, sadly.
14:40:08[Saint]if the freemyipod guys were to put out a mac-safe emCORE build, that'd be a good thing, I guess.
14:41:07copperand that would give choice
14:41:12copperbetween one or the other
14:41:16user890104we actually need a Mac-safe Rockbox build, embedded in an emCORE installer
14:41:41user890104emCORE installer's code doesn't have to be modified at all
14:42:23copperkugel: what's the purpose of "make symlinkinstall"? I don't understand.
14:42:43copperit just changes the path of the .rockbox directory
14:42:55copperand makes a symlink to it in ./simdisk
14:43:13copper(from what I can tell)
14:43:26[Saint]user890104: Oh - is repacking the installer trivial?
14:43:28user890104so we can basicly take the source for the fallback image (has been working fine in the last 2-3 years), and swap the USB IDs
14:43:47user890104which has*
14:44:05copperuser890104: at this point I think the latest build might work better
14:44:16[Saint]what I meant by "put out a mac-safe emCORE build" was "uncluding mac-safe fallback", if that wasn't clear.
14:44:19copperthe latest rockbox build*
14:44:38[Saint]but I was alluding to the fact that building emCORE in general is non-trivial if you're not already set up for it.
14:44:54user890104copper: do they work fine with windows? i'm always using the fallback one for file transfers on win7x64
14:45:14[Saint]They most certainly do not.
14:45:24user890104[Saint]: i happen to be set up for that :)
14:45:29copper?
14:45:44[Saint]I've seen multiple 8.1 failures over the past...long long time.
14:45:55[Saint]And a few 7s.
14:46:04copperI don't know, I'm running Linux, and the latest dev builds have been working flawlessly, as opposed to the old ones that would crap out half the time
14:46:10[Saint]The fallback works in most cases, though.
14:46:40[Saint]copper: newer builds are refusing to mount for...pretty much everybody who isn't using linux. :)
14:46:44user890104[Saint]: you mean including a second "fallback image" in the tools menu?
14:46:54copperoh?
14:46:59[Saint]user890104: no, just an optional download.
14:47:05copper[Saint]: er, seriously?
14:47:14[Saint]copper: yeah, its been happening for ages and no one really seems to know why.
14:47:27copperso what, all iPod Classic Rockbox users are Linux users?
14:47:31user890104copper: that's why we have the option for fallback image. because the dev builds don't work on windows
14:47:38copperah ok
14:47:42copperdamn
14:47:43copperthat's bad
14:47:44[Saint]the fallback image exists specifically for this reason. :)
14:47:52[Saint]bah. beat me to it.
14:48:37user890104[Saint]: why does it have to be an optional download? swapping the fallback image usb ids shouldn't hurt anyone
14:48:51[Saint]good point.
14:49:43user890104so, if someone can build the fallback image revision and send me the rockbox.ipod file, i can do it (if TheSeven doesn't mind)
14:50:48copperI could do that
14:50:49[Saint]You've caught me with my build machine down - spring (technically autumn) cleaning time.
14:50:55coppera regular "make zip" build?
14:51:01copperer, nm
14:51:08copperjust the rockbox.ipod file then
14:52:19[Saint]what revision is the fallback taken from?
14:52:24copper31516
14:52:42[Saint]ah, you're on it - I should read more.
14:53:11copperah fuck
14:53:15copperit's not on git?
14:53:20user890104no, that's svn :)
14:53:54user890104it's from 1st jan 2012
14:54:03coppersvn co <what>?
14:54:16[Saint]I don't remember the magic to build an svn revision from git.
14:54:17user890104svn co -r 31516 <url>
14:54:28[Saint]iirc, its possible.
14:54:31copperfound it
14:54:49coppersvn: E000101: Can't connect to host 'svn.rockbox.org': Network is unreachable
14:54:53[Saint]its on the usinggit page iirc.
14:55:04[Saint]oh - bums.
14:55:11copperhttp://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/
14:55:13copper404
14:55:27copper"No site here. "
14:55:48copper:-/
14:56:08[Saint]git log -n 1 −−grep=@31516
14:56:19[Saint]then checkout the hash
14:56:41[Saint]http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/UsingGit#How_do_I_check_out_an_SVN_revision_made_before_the_transition_to_git_63
14:56:47[Saint]I thought it was there.
14:56:49coppera1c6a512-1295-4272-9138-f99709370657
14:56:50[Saint]and 'twas.
14:59:55copperok, building
15:00
15:00:23copperer, it might work better if I change the USB IDs :P
15:01:43 Quit Strife89 (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
15:03:12copperuser890104: https://outpost.fr/tmp/ueR.zip
15:03:23coppercan you test it?
15:04:06user890104yes
15:04:47user890104i just need to find one of my apple cables
15:16:18user890104copper: it works well
15:17:34user890104here's an installer that includes your binary: https://mega.co.nz/#!JlZDTZRJ!EZLd15TSY9o6y5l0EKgiNr4msFQyQ6meK0iTc85AA7U
15:18:24user890104you can throw it in UMSboot, and let it update your installation of emCORE
15:19:01user890104if you're using an old enough emCORE version, your ipod's hard disk might get reformatted
15:19:04 Join ender` [0] (krneki@foo.eternallybored.org)
15:19:35coppercool!
15:22:03coppermirrored here http://caudec.net/rockbox/installer-ipodclassic-usbid_0x123A_0x456B.ubi
15:22:06user890104i can test it on other windows versions, ubuntu, osx 10.9 and chromium os on tuesday
15:22:28user890104well, i can upload it to files.freemyipod.org, to make it easier
15:25:07user890104http://files.freemyipod.org/misc/installer-ipodclassic-usbid_0x123A_0x456B.ubi
15:34:45user890104[Saint]: surprisingly, the most recent development build of rockbox for ipodclassic works on my windows pc
15:38:28copperaha!
15:40:58 Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
15:41:10 Quit scorche` (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
15:43:02copperI'm gonna test it on my Win7 install
15:44:30user890104actually this installer is built from svn trunk
15:44:49user890104it has a new usb driver, and a nasty umsboot bug fixed
15:45:10user890104but it hasn't been tested a lot
15:45:13copperthe ubi file?
15:45:20user890104yes
15:45:32user890104it's emCORE r911
15:45:46copperI'm gonna try mounting the latest dev build on Win7
15:45:48copperbrb
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15:57:32copper[Saint]: I mounted / unmounted my iPod Classic running the latest dev build, on Windows 7, no problem whatsoever
15:57:37coppercopied files just fine
15:57:40copperseveral times
15:59:35copperI think this should be tested and confirmed by other people, so we can update the fallback build
16:00
16:00:00copperpeople are also reporting on ABI that the recent builds are a lot more stable over USB
16:02:26soapas in "no problems yet" or as in "still some problems"?
16:05:23copperMarvin says "hasn't been an issue in quite a while"
16:05:35copperhttp://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showpost.php?p=646278&postcount=25
16:05:42copperI'm trying to find the posts in question
16:06:41copperhttp://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showpost.php?p=646159&postcount=7
16:06:52copper"Most of my USB transfer problems cleared up at the time the changes came that caused you to update your themes, skamp. Before then transfers to the card on my Fuze+ that were more than ~100 MB would randomly fail and cause really nasty disk problems."
16:07:06copperi.e. kugel's fixes to the theme engine
16:07:31copperhttp://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showpost.php?p=646163&postcount=10
16:07:35copper"Saying that the USB problem are not fixed yet. They are few...but not vanished."
16:08:11copper"Despite what the Rockbox wiki says USB *might* be buggy with any sansa using Rockbox. Even after the recent updates people still sometimes check in over on the Rockbox forums and report it isn't working for them. "
16:08:38copperneeds more testing
16:09:36copper"Whatever was done I'm sure glad they did it. I couldn't use lebellium's or dfkt's themes before the changes. That was more than a bit frustrating because they're some of the best thought out and presented imo. "
16:11:43coppersoap: as for me personally, the difference is huge
16:12:00coppermy Classic never crashes anymore
16:12:09copperhasn't for a while
16:12:41copperand I've been using it daily for over a month
16:13:11copperbefore, it would crash at least half the time, without exagerating
16:13:25copper"plug & pray"
16:13:50copperI even stopped using the Classic a while ago because of that
16:15:47soapthanks
16:30:00*user890104 finds it funny that there's a subforum about ipods on anythingbutipod.com :)
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16:34:48copperuser890104: I asked for it
16:35:23copperuser890104: I'm unclear about this: is it possible to install emCORE / Rockbox on OS X, using your modified UBI file?
16:35:35copperor is an other OS still required?
16:37:12user890104copper: if the recent versions of OSX accept superfloppy-formatted hard disks (not the case the last time we tried, about 2-3 years go), then yes
16:37:45user890104even if it doesn't, i can build a bootstrapper with emCORE instead of UMSboot
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16:37:48copperhttp://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73692
16:38:05user890104which should make it possible, by using emcore.py
16:38:28user890104i don't have a mac at the moment to test it, but it is possible in theory
16:40:06user890104usb vid/pid are a problem if using rockbox. it represents itself as the original product in terms of usb ids
16:40:11 Quit uwe_ (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
16:40:12[Saint]Regarding USB on got head, it does work for some people indeed. But were still getting too many reports if people updating their builds and USB going to shit for them to ignore it or say its fixed I think.
16:40:23[Saint]*git head
16:40:32user890104umsboot uses diffeent usb vid/pid that the original firmware, and also repesents a mass storage device
16:40:42user890104osx 10.6 failed to mount it
16:40:45[Saint](On the Classic, I mean)
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16:41:04user890104[Saint]: i see, thanks
16:41:38[Saint]Most of them seem to hit #freemyipod
16:41:39copper[Saint]: using http://build.rockbox.org/data/rockbox-ipod6g.zip ?
16:42:24user890104copper: if you have a mac around, and you have installed the .ubi i sent you, can you plug the ipod and select UMSboot from emCORE's tools menu?
16:42:28[Saint]Indeed.
16:43:04copperI don't have a mac, unfortunately
16:43:07user890104if this works, then installing on osx should be possible (and i'll have to update the wiki)
16:44:10copper[Saint]: if they hit #freemyipod, doesn't it stand to reason that they're probably installing the 2012 image linked on the emcore wiki?
16:44:40copperand maybe trying to install the dev build while running the 2012 image?
16:44:58[Saint]That's the fallback image, if that didn't work for them they could never have installed it.
16:45:23user890104copper: i updated the instructions recently, to use the current development build of rockbox (via rockbox utility)
16:45:41[Saint]Ah. OK. Then...that.
16:46:03user890104but yes, the fallback image is always installed (on the flash memory of the ipod, not on the hard disk)
16:46:26copperi just don't trust users to really be using a dev build when they complain about USB problems
16:46:47user890104one can use the fallback image (i mean the whole build, with codecs and stuff), but it crashes from time to time because of an i2c bug (IIRC)
16:46:50[Saint]I trust me to check, though.
16:47:02copper[Saint]: btw, can you test the USB thing with Windows yourself, whenever possible?
16:48:03[Saint]I think I've got a virtual machine image somewhere.
16:48:14copperer, is that even a valid test?
16:48:43copperusing a virtual machine I mean
16:49:08copperI have no clue about the implications of it
16:49:10[Saint]It should be.
16:54:19[Saint]So that would explain the people hitting #freemyipod-support with USB issues indeed. They hit it (or don't) immediately at install and the wiki instructions to come see us there are still fresh in their minds.
16:54:43[Saint]I wasn't aware the instructions now pointed to a git head build.
16:55:27[Saint]It stands to reason, the fallback image is ancient and the new builds work for more people than it doesn't... I think.
16:56:01[Saint]Unfortunately we don't get many "yay it worked and everything is OK" posts to base that from.
16:56:19copperhow would we go about getting confirmation enough?
16:56:41copperwhat would it take to switch to a dev build for everything?
16:57:12copperposting on forums would only give SOME anecdotal evidence
16:58:00copperfrom the very few who care to test and report back
16:58:06[Saint]What do you mean 'switch to a Dev build for evrything'?
16:58:15copperdrop the 2012 image alltogether
16:58:25copperaltogether*
16:58:47copperIME it's not even foolproof
16:58:58coppermy iPod would also crash with the 2012 image
16:59:17[Saint]I don't think that's too helpful, there's enough reported fail cases to know something is badly wrong.
17:00
17:00:08[Saint]Know exactly how badly would only be mildly interesting and hugely inconvenience users.
17:00:09copperenough to say that GIT is *worse* than 2012/01/01?
17:00:23[Saint]Definitely.
17:00:26 Nick bertrik_ is now known as bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik)
17:00:33copperdefinitely not my experience
17:00:56copperand I'm one of the guys who ran into USB crashes all the time
17:00:56[Saint]It used to work, it stopped.
17:01:06[Saint]Pretty clear cut. ;)
17:01:13copperwait, what?
17:01:34copperI'm not sure I'm following you
17:01:57copperfor me, it used to NOT work, and now it does, all the time
17:02:04[Saint]USB used to work, and at some point it suddenly stopped. A driver rewrite iirc.
17:02:25[Saint]There's no obvious reason for it AFAIK.
17:03:31coppers/GIT/HEAD/
17:05:06[Saint]Anyway - I'd say we have clear evidence that USB is still an issue, definitely worse than the revision the fallback was taken from.
17:05:29 Join dfkt|a [0] (~androirc@unaffiliated/dfkt)
17:06:10copperthat's weird
17:06:27copperI mean the difference IME is so drastic
17:06:28 Quit dfkt|a (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
17:06:47[Saint]Does the fallback not work for you?
17:06:56coppernot always, no
17:06:59[Saint]That's curious.
17:07:18copperI'm also worried about the interaction with recent themes and the old 2012 fallback build
17:07:32coppersince the fallback uses the /.rockbox/config.cfg file
17:07:50 Quit rela (Quit: Leaving)
17:07:51copperthe fallback should be completely locked with its own configuration, IMO
17:08:01[Saint]It is.
17:08:05copperwhat?
17:08:22[Saint]Oh, no. Hmmm.
17:09:23user890104copper: if the new UMSboot (included in the installer, version 0.2.1) works without issues (for example, on Mac), i might be able to find some time to write an application which uses its usb/mass storage driver, for accessing the hard disk (a.k.a. "disk mode")
17:09:24[Saint]That is a fun point, however from my point of view it must be OK.
17:09:58[Saint]That's there because it exists so we can point to it when the shit hits the fan in newer builds
17:10:12[Saint]And many users use it this way.
17:10:22[Saint]Booting to fallback exclusively for USB.
17:11:12copperuser890104: using emcore only?
17:11:49user890104copper: emCORE + emCORE app
17:11:57user890104maybe as an option in the boot menu
17:11:57copperthat would be awesome
17:13:04copperthat would be the best "fallback" solution
17:13:15user890104http://websvn.freemyipod.org/listing.php?repname=freemyipod&path=%2Fapps%2Fumstest%2F - here's the source code, but it needs some more work to be usable
17:13:15copperfor USB transfers, anyway
17:13:28user890104it currently emulates a RAM disk, it doesn't access the HDD at all
17:14:31user890104and it uses a kernel API of emCORE, which is not yet stable (my windows laptop bluescreens when certain action take place)
17:14:39copperlol
17:15:00user890104it's because windows tried to talk using mass storage protocol to emcore's debugging interface
17:15:12coppernow I want to implement a random blue screen in my themes just to freak out users :D
17:15:41user890104lol
17:17:09[Saint]Just do a black screen with a *panic* in sysfont
17:17:23[Saint]That would be cruel.
17:18:15user890104[Saint]: are you trying to bring more people asking for support? :)
17:18:43[Saint]*panic* INSTRUCTION_UNCLEAR (dick_stuck_in_blender)
17:18:49copperrofl
17:21:00[Saint]You could check the date and do it for April 1st
17:21:37copper[Saint]: except that would be subject to the %?if() bug and I don't know if it will be fixed before april first of next year
17:21:59coppermeh, who am I kidding, it probably won't be
17:22:19copperanyway, too much code for a bad prank :P
17:28:18[Saint]I had a theme where the album art wore a little party hat on party mode once.
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17:53:30coppergah, I can't figure out how to install wps.vim
17:56:47copperer, seems outdated anyway
17:58:10copperwildly useless
17:58:54copperhttps://outpost.fr/tmp/w9k.png/
18:00
18:07:40copperuh
18:08:00copperwhy aren't image files showing anymore with "show files: supported"?
18:08:35 Join rela [0] (~x@pdpc/supporter/active/rela)
18:10:56coppergah
18:11:05copperI bet that's because I didn't build plugins
18:11:14copperdamn it
18:19:29[Saint]Yeah, I was going to mention there's a few plugins that you almost certainly don't want to remove.
18:19:38copperyeah, that blew right up my face, didn't it
18:19:46[Saint]If you don't want plugins, just remove it from the main menu.
18:19:46copper:D
18:19:58coppernah I was just trying to save time on compilation
18:20:03[Saint]The space saved from removing them isn't worth it.
18:20:21[Saint]Do you have ccache installed?
18:20:42[Saint]Compile time shouldn't be fuck all if you're not changing much between builds.
18:23:16[Saint]Most of the time you can get away with just compiling the binary and replacing that.
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18:42:06copper[Saint]: how do I tell if a full recompilation is warranted?
18:44:31gevaertsIf you're building interactively, just run make without a make clean, and do a clean build if things explode (which should be rare)=
18:44:46gevaertsIf it's automated, do you really care about those two or three minutes?
18:45:56copperNot really, no.
18:47:00copperI have now automated my entire Rockbox setup
18:47:06copperless fiddling
18:47:56copperI don't know how people get anything done without scripting
18:55:53copperDoes right-to-left metadata require right-to-left handling in theme code?
18:56:18copperor rather, what mandates right-to-left handling in theme code?
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19:00
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19:30:28copper[Saint]: can you explain this thread? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,43007.0.html
19:30:37copperwth are they talking about?
19:31:44copperand… the "Unsupported Builds" forum is surprisingly low on thread count
19:32:55copperoh, that thread is over a year old
19:33:33[Saint]What they're talking about is one of the wide and varied ways current builds seem to mess shut up on the Classic.
19:34:02[Saint]Where "current" == "anywhere from the last 2 years or so"
19:34:49[Saint]Nowadays a user would hit that immediately at install if they're going to see it, I guess.
19:35:07copperyou didn't answer my earlier question btw: how should we go about making sure and deciding that the latest Classic dev builds are preferable to older versions?
19:35:35copperClassic, and possibly other targets, really
19:35:58copperwhat would turn the minds of deciding heads?
19:36:50[Saint]I don't see a need to do so.
19:39:37[Saint](Just so its clear when I said mess shit (actually I said shut but meh) up on the Classic I was referring to USB failing in current builds for some on Windows)
19:40:24[Saint]Its largely fine but it seems to really piss off a small number of machines for no good reason at all.
19:43:36copperMeh?
19:44:16copperaw shit, I forgot that every time I say "meh", someone downrates my themes
19:46:10copperOh well.
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19:53:24nrgmuh
19:55:43coppermooh
20:00
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20:20:43coppersure enough, it happened
20:20:44copper:D
20:21:01copperMEH!
20:21:11 Quit [Saint] (Remote host closed the connection)
20:22:31 Join [Saint] [0] (~saint@rockbox/staff/saint)
20:22:33copperseems like I have a fan
20:31:50*[Saint] trots off to frantically downrate copper's themes.
20:32:20coppergo nuts
20:32:30[Saint]must. ruin. imaginary. internet points.
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20:32:44copperI'm starting to take it as a show of attention
20:33:14copperIf I'm the most downrated theme author, then I'm probably the most notable one!
20:33:26[Saint]Well, someone needs to either be patient enough to avoid the rate limiting and keep coming back, or resourceful and dedicated enough to subvert it.
20:33:39copperI have my suspicions.
20:33:46[Saint]SO I highly suspect you're doing something to piss someone off.
20:34:09[Saint]I would suspect it was an author with a similarly rated (or excessively highly rated) theme.
20:34:29[Saint]probably *and*, not or.
20:34:40copperhis (their?) persistance is getting kinda funny
20:35:06[Saint]Well, as much as I just - 'tis not I, sir.
20:35:21[Saint]'Aint nobody gots time fo dat.
20:35:33copperWord.
20:35:47[Saint]s/just/jest/
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20:51:45*user890104 is trying out one of copper's themes
20:52:57user890104uhm, i didn't know that you can have a mini wps in the menus
20:53:24coppersbs is no different than wps, except with an added %Vi() menu
20:55:04coppereh, I've never tried putting %Vi() in a WPS
20:55:11user890104well, the stock theme isn't using this, so i assumed it's not possible
20:55:27user890104but it looks so cool
20:55:30copperI'm not the one who got the idea originally
20:55:39copperI copied it from some other theme (can't remember which one)
20:56:10 Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
20:56:48copperlebellium Samsung-Like, possibly
20:56:56copperhttp://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=1806&target=sansafuzeplus
20:57:28copperthat theme also gave me the idea of the dynamic volume progress bar
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