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#rockbox log for 2014-05-05

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05:29:49[Saint]copper: why is it that you are checking for color hex values in the first place?
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06:00:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:06:18JdGordon[Saint]: doesnt raaa provide a widget on android?
06:06:32[Saint]It does.
06:06:43[Saint]Several.
06:07:04JdGordondoesnt show up in my widegt list
06:07:17JdGordonsdk version sillyness?
06:07:54[Saint]No. It shouldn't be.
06:08:11[Saint]Perhaps launcher silliness.
06:08:56[Saint]force close the launcher and check then.
06:09:58JdGordonmeh, not a big deal
06:10:14[Saint]they fuck shit up pretty bad anyway.
06:10:38[Saint]Its very easy to get RaaA into some crazy-ass states poking at playback via the widgits.
06:11:27JdGordonif i could trigger it I could try to fix it :p
06:13:35[Saint]it needs a debug/logf build with additional logging sprinkled around methinks.
06:14:02[Saint]I've tried catching it in ADB, and I can trigger it most times, but ADB shows nothing out of the ordinary whatsoever.
06:14:27[Saint]s/adb/logcat, via adb/
06:14:28JdGordon:(
06:14:47[Saint]Roughly my thoughts.
06:15:02[Saint]pixelma can trigger it reasonably reliably too.
06:15:26[Saint]But I'm unsure if her device presents anything interesting via logcat to state what it is that's falling over.
06:15:57[Saint]kugel hasn't been able to trigger it to my knowledge.
06:16:14[Saint]Which is typical...it couldn;t possibly be that easy. It never is.
06:16:20JdGordonhaha
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07:00
07:02:53JdGordonbah, all i have is a black screen with music playing, rockbox seems to have died :/
07:03:07JdGordonor at least the gui
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07:17:06kugelJdGordon: that's the crazy-ass state [Saint] talked about
07:17:18JdGordonah
07:17:20JdGordoncoool
07:18:02kugel[Saint]: there's a patch on FS that is said to fix it. would be nice if you could test it
07:23:12JdGordonkugel: I havnt got a android build environment going, if oyu do a build for me I'll test it
07:23:27JdGordonfor 1080x1920
07:24:22kugelare you aware there's no cabbie for that?
07:24:33JdGordonyes, painfully :(
07:25:15JdGordonalso, I'm bored - looking at g#681 (buflib malloc) and just wondering why you're bothering with implementing buflib_shrink()? shouldnt that just be a noop on malloc?
07:25:17fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #681 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/681 : 3buflib: Add malloc-based backend for application builds. by Thomas Martitz
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07:44:46copper03:29:49 UTC <[Saint]> copper: why is it that you are checking for color hex values in the first place?
07:45:09copperfor detecting which color variant of my themes is being used
07:45:36JdGordondifferent coloured images?
07:45:49copperdifferent anything
07:46:12copperdisplaying different images, different background colors, different titles
07:47:00coppermy current fix is to test for colors twice, in lowercase and in uppercase
07:47:36coppernote that when testing for HEX colors which don't contain a letter, I have to add 1 to the number and test it as a number, because of the %?if() bug
07:48:37copper%?if(%ss(0, 6, %St(background color), number), =, 737174)<true when color is 737173|false>
07:48:57copper%?if(%St(background color), =, 737173) doesn't work
07:49:05copper%?if(%St(background color), =, 737174) doesn't work either
07:49:15*JdGordon runs away crying
07:49:19copperyes
07:49:37copperI reported the %?if() bug a while ago, btw
07:49:42copperit's on flyspray
07:49:52JdGordoni vaguly remember some discussion about it
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07:49:58JdGordonmostly that fixing it would break everything?
07:50:52copperyes, unless we come up with something additional to the current way
07:51:07copperan additional syntax to differentiate the old %?if() and the new %?if()
07:51:08 Join fragilematter [0] (~fragilema@unaffiliated/fragilematter)
07:51:42JdGordonoh to be able to dump the whole language and start again!
07:51:53copperhehe
07:52:13kugelJdGordon: buflib_shrink() shouldnt be a noop
07:52:29copperhttp://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=xEbuAxHQ
07:52:31copperwoohoo
07:52:55*JdGordon vomits
07:53:14kugelsome code does "opportunistic alloc", it allocates a lot (all RAM) and then shrinks itself after some time when the actual memory needed is determined
07:53:38JdGordonah, ok
07:54:22kugelso its not just for the audio buffer
07:54:43kugelthough buflib_shrink on malloc() is pita
07:54:48coppergevaerts: I don't understand why the casing is different on the sim and on the actual device?
07:55:09JdGordoncopper: sim uses libc printf()
07:55:30JdGordontarget uses our printf which is a cut down version
07:55:36copperah
07:55:53copperI think this is the first time where I find a difference between the sim and the device
08:00
08:00:02[Saint]That seems terribly failure prone.
08:00:25[Saint]Do you test if the hex is within a given range, or check for specific values?
08:00:35copperme? Specific values.
08:00:35[Saint]If the latter...eeek.
08:00:42copperwhy eek?
08:00:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:01:05[Saint]I mean, there's only...what, 64 million possible iterations...
08:01:14copperI'm only trying to identify my own color presets with certainty
08:01:31[Saint]Ah. Right. That makes more sense.
08:01:41[Saint]Average Joe can get fucked.
08:01:50copperI have a generic case that works with all other possible colors
08:02:58copperer, when I say "my own color presets", I mean the color presets that I ship with the themes
08:03:38 Quit derf (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
08:04:15copper.cfg files that the user can easily switch to without fiddling with the color picker
08:04:55[Saint]Cute. Technically the theme site should reject that.
08:05:07copperit currently rejects extra cfg files yes
08:05:16[Saint]Ah.
08:05:16copperthough I submitted a patch for it to accept those
08:05:24copperit's on gerrit
08:06:03copperso for now the extra cfg files are renamed as .txt files - other theme authors have been doing the same for a while
08:06:22copper(the zip files that I host myself contain the original cfg files)
08:07:59[Saint]Also, welcome to the club. The elite few that have managed to generate syntax so hideous it makes JdGordon run away crying.
08:08:17JdGordonits really not that hard tbh
08:08:22[Saint]:)
08:09:45copperit's not so much hideous syntax, as the same simple syntax repeated a dozen times!
08:10:00copperwell, except for the %?if() bug workaround
08:10:13copperwith the use of %ss to cast the value as an int
08:10:24JdGordonits really not a %if() bug.. its the way conditionals are done
08:10:47JdGordoncant you just compare as strings?
08:10:52[Saint]0 base vs. 1 base?
08:10:52coppernope, doesn't work
08:11:23[Saint]I've noticed that's inconsistent in a few places.
08:11:26coppercomparing as strings only works when there's a letter in the hex value
08:11:28[Saint]Is that the issue?
08:12:01[Saint]Some items return 0 as the first tuple, others 1.
08:12:30[Saint]I imagine that might make life difficult.
08:13:01[Saint]I haven't don't anything particularly crazy with if in an age myself.
08:13:53copper%?if(%St(background color), =, 737173)<true|false>
08:13:58copperalways returns false no matter what
08:14:04copper%?if(%St(background color), =, 737174)<true|false>
08:14:05copperthat too
08:14:19coppernothing works unless I use %ss() here to cast it as an int
08:14:27JdGordonwould you like a tag to force the number to a string which should fix %if()?
08:14:31JdGordonim just checking the code now
08:14:42copperthat would work I guess
08:15:26copperI think that should be a parameter for %?if()
08:15:50copper%?if(%St(background color), =, 737173, string)<true|false>
08:15:54coppersomething like that
08:16:16JdGordonadding a tag i think will be easier
08:16:33[Saint]But make for much nastier syntax.
08:16:58[Saint]I kinda agree it should be an if param.
08:17:07[Saint]If possible, of course.
08:17:39kugelgevaerts: why not fix our sprintf?
08:17:40copperadding a parameter to %?if() wouldn't break existing code, I think?
08:17:58[Saint]Shouldn't.
08:18:24JdGordonno, but %if() already takes an optional int param, so adding an optional string is a huge PITA to not break things
08:18:44copperit does?
08:19:12[Saint]^ this
08:19:22copperit's not on the Wiki, unless I'm blind
08:19:31copperoh
08:19:33JdGordonapparently! :p
08:19:34copperyou mean "option count"?
08:19:38JdGordonim going from the code
08:19:40JdGordonyeah
08:19:43copperah ok
08:19:57JdGordonactually it might not be so hard to fix
08:20:18kugelwhat test does actually work?
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08:21:15copper%?if(%ss(0, 6, %St(background color), number), =, 737174)<true when color is 737173|false>
08:21:20copperthat ^
08:21:48coppernothing else works
08:21:53JdGordon:'(
08:21:57JdGordonthats not completly true!
08:22:19[Saint]%if(%xx,=,foo)<foo|bar|baz> works fine
08:22:28[Saint]I use it all the time.
08:22:51copperyou understand why that's not pratical when testing for colors :)
08:23:16[Saint]Right. Just picking apart the absurd claim that nothing works.
08:23:28copperoh come on, you know what I meant
08:23:43[Saint]At least two of us didn't.
08:23:44copperwe've been talking about the specific case of a hex color value with only numbers in it
08:24:46kugelcopper: so if the color contains letters you don't need %ss?
08:24:58coppercorrect
08:25:19kugel%?if(%St(background color), =, fefefe)<true when color is fefefe|false> ?
08:25:40coppertrue, except I have to do that test twice, first in lowercase, second in uppercase
08:26:01kugelbecause if the sim inconsistency?
08:26:32copperyes (and I don't know if all actual devices report hex values in uppercase, or just the iPod Classic and some other devices)
08:26:49kugelthe devices should be all the same
08:26:58[Saint]It should be the same for all devices.
08:27:00copperbut since I use the sim to take screenshots, I need to test for both anyway
08:27:06kugelright
08:27:15kugelI think we can fix that
08:27:37[Saint]Does screenshot on device not function?
08:27:43[Saint]I seem to recall it does
08:27:55[Saint](Are you aware of it?)
08:27:58copper1) I don't know how to take screenshots on the actual device
08:28:09[Saint]Manual.
08:28:18copper2) it would be a lot more cumbersome to take screenshots on the device and copy them over USB every time)
08:28:41[Saint]Well...not really, since the trigger is plugging USB.
08:28:45JdGordonif the only issue is screenshots oyu could also just force that %if() to whatever you want
08:28:57[Saint]Also that.
08:29:01copperhmm?
08:29:17copperit's not just screenshots
08:29:23copperit's testing themes in the sim
08:29:25JdGordonI understand :)
08:29:28coppermaking sure stuff works
08:29:59copperif I have to test the stuff on the device every time, the point of the sim is moot
08:30:33[Saint]Regarding screenshots on device, the trigger to capture the screenshot is plugging USB. so transfer of said image(s) isn't terribly inconvenient.
08:30:45[Saint]About as inconvenient as launching the Sim.
08:32:29[Saint]The Sim offers the benefit of verbose debugging, but that feature isn't as useful as it could be...
08:32:42 Quit scorche (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
08:33:00[Saint]It seems very easy to trick it. It often points to the wrong line entirely as an error.
08:35:01[Saint]I'm not sure if it uses the same checks checkwps does or not. Checkwps can be tricked too but seems a bit more hardened.
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08:47:47pixelmawell you have to enable the screenshot function, plug USB once to trigger it, unplug, disable screenshot and plug the USB cable again for the data connection...
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09:14:22JdGordon[Saint]: checkwps and the sim both use the same debugging code
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09:24:18pixelmacopper: maybe you could test for the "red/gre(en)/yel(low)" or whatever-naming-scheme part of the cfg file name instead?
09:24:59copperwhat name?
09:25:11copperwhat value can I test for exactly?
09:25:31copperis the cfg file name available in some variable?
09:29:17copperbtw, rockbox saves RGB colors in the config in lowercase, so in order to be consistent, colors should be reported and tested for in lowercase
09:29:59copperpixelma: I don't see anything in a full cfg dump that I could test for, other than "foreground color" and "background color"
09:36:35copperah no, the actual device saves colors in uppercase
09:37:12copperso it's just a matter of putting colors in uppercase in the sims
09:40:04copperat least that wouldn't impact the actual devices
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10:00:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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10:35:41JdGordoncopper: The simplest fix is using a new tag to force to a string.. would that work for you?
10:35:59copperfor the number problem, sure
10:37:26JdGordonalso I'll fix our format to do the right thing for %x and %X
10:37:50coppermeaning what exactly?
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10:39:13copperI mean, what's the right thing?
10:39:59JdGordon%X printf uppercase letters
10:40:20copperin both the sim and the devices?
10:40:29copperthat would be nice
10:41:46copperit occurs to me that casting actual numbers to a string would help in other cases too, when testing for a specific number
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10:44:23copperJdGordon: what about new tags like "%?number(X, =, 3)" and "%?string(X, =, X)"?
10:44:35copperleaving %?if() as it is now
10:45:08copperthe former casting all first hand values to numbers, and the latter casting all first hand values to strings
10:45:20gevaertskugel: I was listing *really* trivial fixes :)
10:46:02JdGordoncopper: are they both needed?
10:46:42copperyes
10:46:47copperneeded and simply useful
10:48:05copperJdGordon: %?number() would be useful when testing for a font size, which is taken from a string (the font's filename)
10:48:14JdGordonah hmm... gevaerts, what do you tihnk about fixing %x/%X?
10:48:41copper%?number() and %?string() would fix the %?if() bug without breaking anything
10:49:10JdGordonI think fixing it will make alot of our printfs less readable (everything seems to use %x assuming uppercase)
10:49:12copperthey would also improve readability, being fully explicit about what is being tested and how
10:49:34gevaertsJdGordon: that would cost about 50 bytes I guess, but apart from that I'd say it's a useful thing to do. I'm assuming you don't care too much about those 50 bytes :)
10:49:57gevaertsWhere do we actually assume uppercase?
10:50:36gevaertsI haven't checked, but do we actually have many %x uses that aren't strictly for user display?
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10:52:05copperJdGordon: a tag that casts to string would fix the hex colors problem, but not the %?if() bug when testing for numbers with "greater than" or "lower than", while the %?number() tag would
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10:53:06copperI don't know why I never thought of that before
10:53:23copperseems like a workable solution for the problem
10:53:45JdGordonelse if (s->flags&F_RGB)
10:53:45JdGordon /* %?St|name|<#000000|#000001|...|#FFFFFF> */
10:53:45JdGordon /* shouldn't overflow since colors are stored
10:53:45DBUGEnqueued KICK JdGordon
10:53:45JdGordon * on 16 bits ...
10:53:45JdGordon * but this is pretty useless anyway */
10:53:47JdGordon *intval = *(int*)s->setting + 1;
10:53:59JdGordonthat explains why your compare doesnt work :p
10:54:14copperwhy the + 1?
10:54:25gevaertsTo make conditionals work
10:54:34copperok
10:54:36gevaertsWhich I hope *nobody* will ever use with colours :)
10:54:51copperwell I've run into the problem before when testing for font size
10:54:59copperthat's when I filed the bug report
10:55:45JdGordonadding the cast tags is trivial
10:57:25gevaertsWhat would those do? Subtract one?
10:58:50copperhe only mentionned a "cast to string" tag
10:59:07copperbut I guess a "cast to number" that subtracts one would work too?
10:59:31gevaertsThat's the point! I don't think it does :)
11:00
11:00:10copper%cast(value, string) and %cast(value, number)?
11:00:41gevaertsI mean, not *all* numbers get the +1, e.g. all the "traditional" conditional cases such as e.g. charging state
11:01:06gevaertsSo you'd still have to know where exactly you need the cast
11:01:14coppertrue
11:01:30coppernot with %number() :)
11:01:36gevaertsNo?
11:01:39gevaertsWhy not?
11:02:25copperbecause that would always test for the exact value contained in the variable
11:02:26CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
11:02:26*gevaerts might be missing something
11:02:43copperwithout adding or subtracting one
11:02:53JdGordondid our keys on gerrit get wiped?
11:02:54copperthat's the problem with %?if(), but not with %?number()
11:03:28gevaertscopper: It's not the if code that does the adding. It's the token evaluation code
11:03:48gevaertsSo changing that is a fairly invasive thing
11:03:55gevaertsI think
11:03:59copperI don't want to change that
11:04:05copper%?number() wouldn't
11:04:13copperdoesn't matter if some vars start at 1 or 0
11:04:26copperit only matters that we can test for their actual value
11:04:34gevaertsWhat *is* their actual value?
11:04:45copperwhatever %St(var) displays
11:04:50gevaertsFor settings that's clear, but for e.g. those battery states?
11:05:08copper09:04:14 UTC <copper> doesn't matter if some vars start at 1 or 0
11:05:16gevaertsWhy not?
11:05:28gevaertsIt does matter for your fontsizes, apparently...
11:05:42copperbecause if a var starts at 0, I'll just test for 0
11:05:51copperif a var starts at 1, I'll just test for 1
11:06:21copperunless it is me who's missing something?
11:06:56*JdGordon cant push to git :(
11:07:32gevaertsSo would you accept that %number(%pe) and %pe give different answers?
11:07:43JdGordonthey wont
11:07:54JdGordonim not sure %number makes any sense
11:08:21coppernote that %ss() alrady has a "number" argument
11:09:01copperthe problem is not what variables contain
11:09:04copperthe problem is %?if()
11:09:32gevaertsJdGordon: "ssh -p 29418 yourusername@gerrit.rockbox.org" doesn't work?
11:09:47copperwhatever variables contain, if I can test for their exact content, there's no problem
11:10:48copperI just don't want my code to read "%?if(x, =, 3><then x = 4|false>"
11:10:54copperer
11:11:01copper"%?if(x, =, 3><then x = 2|false>"
11:11:24gevaertsThe problem is "their exact content"
11:12:22copperI think I see what you mean
11:12:39gevaertsI fully understand what you're asking and why, but I don't see a simple easy patch to give you that
11:13:15copperok
11:13:18copperenumerations are one thing
11:13:28gevaertsWhere the skin engine currently has *one* numeric value for each tag (which is tuned for conditionals), it would need either two or a flag that says to subtract one again
11:13:30copperbut colors and number strings are not enumerations
11:14:01gevaertsSo unless I'm missing things, someone needs to go over *all* tags that can provide number-like stuff and fix them
11:14:15gevaertsnumber strings can be anything
11:14:44gevaertsColours, I agree, but I could see people use number strings coming from %ss as enumerations
11:14:56copper%ss(0, 2, %St(font), number) is not "a tag"
11:15:28coppersigh
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11:16:10copperI don't have the knowledge to help more than that on the subject, I think
11:16:45copperI remain convinced that the problem is with %?if() trying to deal with both number values and enumerations
11:17:04copperthis is all very confusing.
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11:28:15copperbtw, if that wasn't clear, I currently have workarounds for all problematic cases
11:28:27copperi.e. I made it work for my themes
11:28:53copperit's just ugly in the theme code
11:33:16copperin other words, it's not a problem of "I can't make this work"
11:38:22copper(if that makes any difference)
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11:51:03copperFS #12891 is the relevant flyspray entry
11:51:03fs-bluebothttp://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12891 3%?if() evaluates enumeration indexes and arbitrary numbers to (number + 1) (bugs, unconfirmed)
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15:25:01coppersemi relevant: https://outpost.fr/M2Q → bbc.com: BBC News - Wolfson Microelectronics is to be taken over by Cirrus Logic | Original URL: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-27202322
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15:57:01[Saint]gevaerts: I'm with you at least.
15:57:16[Saint]I mean, I understand the point you're raising.
15:57:33[Saint]We don't want to fix this one case and fuck up all the others. :)
16:00
16:00:04[Saint]There's no non-trivial non-invasive fix for this that I can think of.
16:00:32[Saint]I'm fairly sure fixing this would be a skin breaking change.
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16:01:21coppernew tags wouldn't be invasive
16:01:31copperwhether it's my proposal or JdGordon's
16:01:34[Saint]This is taking %if far outside the scope of its intention...so I'm not terribly surprised.
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16:02:35copperhttp://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-buildap4.html#x20-411000D.24
16:02:44[Saint]Not the ideal solution, though.
16:02:51copperdoesn't sound like testing tag values was outside the scope of its intention
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16:03:27copperI'm not doing anything fancy
16:03:55copperI'm exactly testing the values of tags, except I can't make the simplest thing work without cheating
16:04:32[Saint]It was initially added to handle cases like "%?if(%mp,=,1)<stopped>, etc.
16:04:51[Saint]Simple comparisons of the returned value from conditional tags.
16:05:51copperthe manual doesn't read that way
16:06:07[Saint]The manual us wrong and vague in a lot of places.
16:06:14copper:-/
16:06:24[Saint]I specifically requested this tag. I was there. ;)
16:06:34copperokay :)
16:08:21copper[Saint]: just say that I'm pushing the envelope, Right Stuff style ;)
16:08:33*copper giggles
16:09:10[Saint]This is definitely a case I didn't have in mind at the time I thought it useful.
16:09:31[Saint]It was primarily so you didn't need to construct gargantuan conditional statements.
16:10:05[Saint]%?pv<||||||||||||||||||||||||||||foo>, etc.
16:10:29copper"let's use those tags in such ugly ways that I'll pass out"
16:10:52[Saint]That's how we used to have to do progress bars.
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16:11:20[Saint]We've come a long way.
16:11:33[Saint]When I started we didn't have viewports.
16:11:40[Saint]Or the ui viewport.
16:11:58[Saint]Or about 50% of the fun tags we have now...
16:12:07copperI don't want to know what Rockbox was like back then!
16:12:27copperI think I probably got into it right about the right time
16:12:28[Saint]We used to do text spacing with newlines and whitespace.
16:12:29pixelmawell, I find copper's use case not very "far outside", especially not the font size one. Just because another, simpler use case helped inventing the tag shouldn't be the reason to neglect others (just saying as it sounds this way to me, [Saint])
16:13:23coppereven the font size is hackish
16:13:34[Saint]Nor do I think it should exclude the use case
16:13:34copperwon't work if the font file doesn't start with the correct number
16:13:45copperfont filename*
16:13:45[Saint]I was just saying why I believe it doesn't.
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16:14:06copperI'm just exploiting a defacto standard for font filenames
16:14:29copperassuming users won't install their own custom font with a non-standard filename
16:14:57[Saint]Fwiw I don't think anyone really saw using if and ss coming either...
16:15:05[Saint]So that kinda adds to the fun.
16:15:12copperthe more glaring problem is the inability to properly for the value of tags that are made entirely of numbers, like colors
16:15:25copperproperly test*
16:15:41copperor those enumeration tags
16:15:55coppertesting for 1 when it displays 0
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16:16:42coppertbh I don't know how you didn't run into that problem before
16:16:54[Saint]pixelma: just in case it wasn't clear I wasn't trying to state "this is why it is the way it is and should stay that way", only " I believe this is the reason why it is the way it is, no one really considered the use case to my knowledge"
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16:17:30[Saint]Obviously I'd like to see it fixed.
16:17:42[Saint]I was just saying I never saw this use case coming.
16:19:19*[Saint] has had his fair share of being on the receiving end of such issues and is well aware of the frustration caused by it
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16:20:03[Saint]I'm probably directly responsible for at least half a dozen tags from running into similar situations
16:20:49copperI wouldn't run into this sort of problems if the theme engine didn't have those capabilities
16:21:08copperI just wouldn't be doing what I'm doing
16:21:16copperSo there's that :)
16:21:43[Saint]You'd likely do what I did "hey, it would be awesome if I could..."
16:22:25[Saint]One of my favorite requests was skin variabkes
16:22:36[Saint]*variables, even
16:22:47[Saint]They're very fun to play with.
16:24:09[Saint](Touchscreen area that will set, increment, or decrement an arbitrary variable and a tag to query the value)
16:24:54[Saint]Oh, and the timeout for detecting since when a touch area was last pressed.
16:25:37[Saint]...the the touch area that does nothing, which I needed in addition to variables
16:25:46[Saint]*and the
16:27:25[Saint]With your style and talent, copper, I really think you'd have a lot of fun targeting large screened touchscreen targets.
16:28:05[Saint]Either that or drive yourself completely mad...its 50/50
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16:30:24copperhow about: %cast(value, type) with "type" being one of "string", "number" and "enum"?
16:30:37copperto make it clear what is being tested and what is expected?
16:31:05[Saint]Intend to prefer gevaerts idea for cleanliness but its so invasive
16:31:24[Saint]*I tend to
16:32:41[Saint]Re "go over all the number type tags (tuned to conditionals) and fix them"
16:33:32[Saint]Which wouldn't be so bad at all as there's a couple of inconsistencies beyond this case.
16:35:52[Saint]Probably best to try hash this out in the magic hour when we're all around at the same time.
16:37:15coppercan you translate that into UTC? :D
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16:38:09copper13:37 UTC? :D
16:38:47[Saint]From memory its around 1200~1400ish my time (+13GMT currently)
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16:44:35[Saint]Actually my logs seem to suggest the major overlaps seem to happen around 0900~1100 NZDST
16:47:26[Saint]And around the same times +12h later
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