#rockbox 2014-05-19

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#rockbox log for 2014-05-19

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03:27:56	*	the-kyle thought he was supposed to come back. winderz doesn't work either?
03:28:21	the-kyle	OMG
03:28:43	[Saint]	the-kyle: errrrr...?
03:28:50	[Saint]	Lets try this again, shall we?
03:29:11	the-kyle	Yeah, wrong winder.
03:30:09	the-kyle	Second time i've done that in the past week I think. I'm really slippin' lol.
03:31:18	[Saint]	I think it's pretty hard to break my record for mistaking IRC as a shell.
03:31:48	the-kyle	lol
03:31:51	[Saint]	I've exposed login details to more services that I can think of.
03:32:23	the-kyle	Woe now that's really bad. I think I've only done that twice. ... I think.
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04:15:02	[Saint]	Would not having repeat and shuffle settings immediately visible in the wps be a Very Bad Thing(tm)?
04:15:47	[Saint]	I've put them in an overflow menu instead but I have the feeling this might piss people off.
04:17:19	[Saint]	volume is in there too.
04:17:56	[Saint]	and browser and playlistviewer.
04:18:28	[Saint]	I guess I could find some room to display the repeat and shuffle state in text?
04:18:56	[Saint]	I just don't want to have a button/toggle on the main screen for aesthetic reasons.
04:20:50	[Saint]	It seems that almost every music player for touchscreen ever has a panel down the bottom like: \| repeat \| \|<< \| \|> \| >>\| \| shuffle \|
04:21:12	[Saint]	But I just have: \| \|<< \| \|> \| >>\| \|
04:38:32	JdGordon	[Saint]: hidden features isnt very nice
04:39:15	[Saint]	I wouldn't call them hidden per se - its exactly similar to the Android overflow menu
04:39:32	[Saint]	Three dots in the top right corner bring up the overflow.
04:40:06	JdGordon	ah, that might make it better
04:40:08	JdGordon	screenshot?
04:44:09	[Saint]	I don't have it all quite stuck together yet in a fashion that works the way I want it to - I'm just hashing things out presently. Looking at it now I think the icons I have chosen for the media toggles are too large and there will be room for shuffle and repeat toggles.
04:44:46	[Saint]	But that will be reaaaaaaaaally annoying because I stole them from the Tango! project and there isn't shuffle nor repeat icons in the set. :-/
04:45:26	[Saint]	And there's a reasonably odd gradient texture on the images.
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04:46:27	[Saint]	I need an artist.
04:48:29	[Saint]	Someone who can make repeat and shuffle versions of these: http://imgur.com/a/pOGCH#0
04:49:28	[Saint]	Holy shit - imgur just destroyed those files.
04:52:13	[Saint]	Heh. They look nothing like that. One sec.
04:53:00	[Saint]	http://imgur.com/a/7JxzS
04:55:15	[Saint]	Ohhhhhh! There are shuffle/repeat icons in the set.
04:55:17	[Saint]	Kinda.
04:55:28	[Saint]	They don't entirely match, though. :-/
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04:57:40	[Saint]	JdGordon: do you think I could get away with using http://imgur.com/a/b66vf with the above lined set?
04:58:30	[Saint]	they're GNOME status icons.
04:59:41	ParkerR	[Saint], what theme are you working on?
04:59:46	[Saint]	I used Tango! to a: keep in line with the existing icon set, and b: be lazy because I'm not much of an artist and someone already made nice icons with a suitable license.
05:00
05:00:37	[Saint]	ParkerR: The intention is to make an easily portable touchscreen theme that should scale easily between resolutions.
05:00:49	ParkerR	Ahh
05:01:00	ParkerR	So indirectly helping android... ;P
05:01:43	[Saint]	So, large, high quality master images, and clean, commented code that you should intheory just be able to generate a set of images for (or using existing sizes) and plug in a few values here and there for a new port.
05:01:55	ParkerR	Aye
05:01:55	[Saint]	Instead of having to basically do the whole thing from scratch.
05:02:14	ParkerR	Does RB su[[prts SVGs as icons?
05:02:19	ParkerR	*support
05:03:18	[Saint]	I'm trying to do a lot of the UI element placements using negative viewport offsets and full width viewports so that wherever possible when porting to a new resolution one needn't edit too much at all.
05:04:13	[Saint]	ParkerR: no, we don't support SVG icons. But we do support antialiased bitmaps for some time now.
05:04:31	ParkerR	Nice
05:05:45	ParkerR	You know what just came to mind but probably wouldnt be worth porting? rockbox for DS
05:06:55	[Saint]	As you can see, the Tango! icon set looks very sexy with antialiasing at high resolutions
05:06:56	[Saint]	http://imgur.com/oMNoNUG
05:07:19	[Saint]	That is a 128px icon set that I generated from the script located in our sources.
05:07:53	[Saint]	(had to convert to .png because imgur seems to really dislike bitmaps with an alpha channel and they all look terrible when I upload them)
05:08:45	[Saint]	Those are just the viewers icons - oh well, you get the idea.
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05:10:34	ParkerR	[Saint], Cool. My only thought owning a clip Zip: What are these icons you speak of? :P
05:11:07		Quit JdGordon (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
05:11:16	[Saint]	Are they disabled completely, or is the icon set just scaled impossibly small?
05:11:26	ParkerR	I think I idsbled them :P
05:11:30	ParkerR	*disabled
05:11:52	[Saint]	Ah, right. Now you can fit 5 characters in a row on screen at a time instead of 4. ;)
05:11:58	ParkerR	:P
05:12:08	ParkerR	So much more room for activities!
05:12:57	[Saint]	For some hilarity, play DooM on ultraviolent
05:13:15	ParkerR	HAH
05:13:18	[Saint]	You can't see the enemy sprites until you're dead, basically. Its hilarious.
05:13:19	ParkerR	heh :\|
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05:13:34	[Saint]	Everything gets scaled so tiny they need to be right in fron tof you before you see them.
05:13:42	[Saint]	Its very cute.
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05:13:54	ParkerR	Ive played in normal
05:13:59	ParkerR	Was kinda fun
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05:14:06	[Saint]	Its near impossible on the Clip/+
05:14:47	[Saint]	And possibly an epilepsy trigger.
05:16:07	ParkerR	[Saint], https://cdn.mediacru.sh/rvfisA_ANnbZ.jpe
05:16:18	ParkerR	Yes it supposed to be missing the g
05:16:24	ParkerR	The host is weird
05:17:37	[Saint]	Obviously the g fell off as a result of the crushing.
05:17:46	ParkerR	heh
05:22:11	ParkerR	[Saint], so yeah basically small font plus no icons
05:22:45	ParkerR	Got it small enough so the homescreen doesnt have to scroll
05:23:02	JdGordon	grr.... internet fell over apparently
05:23:07	[Saint]	On my iPods, I use the fallback theme and default (as in not cabbieV2) icons
05:23:08	JdGordon	[Saint]: yeah, those icons look fine i think
05:23:19	[Saint]	So, I'm kinda used to minimal hideous themes.
05:23:30	ParkerR	Heh
05:23:57	[Saint]	JdGordon: I'll probably need to lighten them up a few shades to match.
05:24:16	[Saint]	They'ye currently a bit darker but they're vaguely similar.
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08:08:30	copper	03:23:08 UTC <[Saint]> On my iPods, I use the fallback theme and default (as in not cabbieV2) icons
08:08:39	copper	I don't get what that is supposed to gain you
08:09:15	copper	you have this weird obsession about saving the very last byte
08:09:45	[Saint]	A high contrast, low resource theme with a metric fucktonne of display data, is what it gives me.
08:10:16	copper	screenie?
08:10:31	copper	nm
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08:11:18	copper	my iPod Video sim segfaults when trying to switch to the fallback theme
08:11:26	copper	er, rockbox_failsafe
08:11:58	copper	correction, it segfaults when trying to switch to any theme
08:12:17	[Saint]	Awesome.
08:12:37	copper	I wiped out the config file
08:12:44	copper	I don't see the metric fucktonne of data
08:12:59	[Saint]	Compared to most themes.
08:13:18	copper	my themes display the same stuff
08:13:34	copper	are we talking about the same thing?
08:14:11	copper	this? https://outpost.fr/tmp/pXB.png/
08:14:14	[Saint]	I don't find the contrast on your themes to be high enough.
08:14:19		Join ender` [0] (krneki@foo.eternallybored.org)
08:14:24	[Saint]	Except for the weird dark blue I don't like.
08:14:37	[Saint]	And, I like icons. ;)
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08:14:59	copper	but you make your own themes
08:15:06	copper	why would you suffer rockbox_failsafe?
08:15:26	[Saint]	I make themes for others. Not myself primarily.
08:15:55	copper	you're weird!
08:16:38	[Saint]	I have specific tastes.
08:17:01	[Saint]	My main menu only has File Browser, Now Playing, and Settings in it. :)
08:17:19	[Saint]	Everything else is useless cruft to me.
08:17:27	copper	that's not a theme thing
08:17:46	copper	I mean you can have that with any theme
08:17:54	[Saint]	Well, no. But ts a fairly clear indication if minimalist tastes
08:18:00	[Saint]	*of
08:19:25	[Saint]	I like working with and making fancy, shiny things. I just don't use them often on a device I rarely ever see the screen of.
08:19:41	[Saint]	Touchscreen on the other hand is a whole other ballgame.
08:20:49	[Saint]	There, its impossible to not interact with the screen so high contrast, usability, and pretty things come out to play.
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08:23:27	[Saint]	I would probably use the failsafe on touchscreen too if it didn't mean having to use grid mode instead of absolute point in the wps.
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08:28:40	[Saint]	copper: primarily I like the challenges involved in making a theme that "just works" all across the board.
08:28:59	[Saint]	I find building locale awareness into themes interesting.
08:31:53	copper	[Saint]: don't you use a smartphone for actual music playback?
08:32:24	[Saint]	It depends on the situation.
08:33:16	copper	did you get my bit about MP3 streaming over bluetooth btw?
08:33:55	copper	I don't know if that ever existed, and it would disable all and any DSP
08:34:13	copper	it's a neat idea, but not very practical
08:34:16	[Saint]	If transporting my iPod and amp isn't going to be problematic then I'll take it with me, but I'm happy to fall back to just my phone.
08:36:17	[Saint]	A2DP MP3 direct streaming most certainly exists, or existed.
08:40:54	copper	well, I'm going to try an apt-X receiver with my apt-X phone
08:43:17	kugel	[Saint]: bluetooth audio always implied transcoding
08:43:50	[Saint]	I'm positive there's a direct pass through mode.
08:43:58	kugel	there isn't
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08:44:26	kugel	not by specs anyway, perhaps exotic actual hardware offers this
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08:44:55	kugel	in the same way stuff like apt-X is non-standard as well
08:45:07	[Saint]	It is optional, indeed.
08:47:10	[Saint]	"As of PulseAudio 1.0, we support passthrough output of compressed formats. This allows us to directly support passing compressed audio to hardware that supports it. Currently, the only hardware for which we support this is A/V receivers plugged in over S/PDIF or HDMI, but this can include hardware decoders on SoCs and streaming MP3/AAC/... to Bluetooth headsets that support it in the future."
08:47:11	copper	apparently my phone will tell me explicitely that apt-X is used
08:48:07	kugel	[Saint]: it's not optional, it's non-standard
08:48:27	kugel	bluetooth specs require transcoding
08:48:28	[Saint]	Semantics.
08:48:57	copper	"Encoding audio that has previously been encoded with MP3 or AAC introduces additional artefacts to the already compromised audio. Native streaming is an option for MP3 or AAC, but if the source is a mixture of uncompressed, AAC or MP3 seperate decoders will be needed for each algorithm. This leads to a more complex and unwieldy headset design, which has to choose between decoders depending on the source material. A better solution is to choose the mos
08:49:09	copper	"Native streaming is an option for MP3 or AAC"
08:49:32	copper	https://web.archive.org/web/20100808133404/http://www.aptx.com/Documents/Bluetooth-Datasheet−−-SBC-comparison.aspx
08:50:37	[Saint]	Right. I'm not saying its the holy grail or anything - but I think we can agree at this point that it exists, no?
08:51:05	copper	apparently
08:51:37	copper	it sure would be nice to have that option for people who don't care about DSPs
08:51:39	kugel	I haven't seen one in the wild but it probably exists
08:52:45	copper	http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=78217&view=findpost&p=684227
08:53:08	copper	eh, only took me 4 years ago to find compatible hardware
08:53:13	copper	-ago
08:53:56	[Saint]	I'm fairly certain the funny little Nexus thing that flopped so miserably did direct passthrough over BT.
08:54:07	[Saint]	I seem to recall that was where I learned it was a thing.
08:54:23	copper	what Nexus?
08:56:05	[Saint]	Nexus Q
08:56:18	[Saint]	That funny little media portal no one ever purchased.
08:57:27	copper	oh, the sperical thing?
08:57:30	copper	spherical
08:57:39	*	[Saint] nids
08:57:47	[Saint]	*nods, even
09:00
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09:16:52	kugel	[Saint]: it didn't flop as it was never released :)
09:17:52	[Saint]	Err....no?
09:18:33	[Saint]	Ah. Yes.
09:18:43	copper	maybe?
09:19:15	[Saint]	It wasn't "released", but all the stock was handed out to conference attendees and those who preordered.
09:19:20	kugel	afaik it was cancelled, and only early pre-orderers got one
09:19:32	copper	[Saint]: most likely your bluetooth audio will be transcoded
09:19:43	copper	and if you're lucky, it will use AAC or apt-X for it
09:19:51	[Saint]	The full run of units was handed out iiuc.
09:20:01	copper	e.g. with iDevices and Made for iPhone headphones
09:20:35	copper	Apple recommends bluetooth receiver makers to use AAC
09:21:14	copper	which is probably a lot better than SBC, though I have no idea how it would compare to apt-X
09:22:30	copper	I'm a bit confused by the "non destructive transcoding" bit with apt-X
09:22:54	copper	do they mean that their codec is so good, it's transparent? or are they doing something special with known codecs like MP3 and AAC?
09:23:08	[Saint]	I think that falls into the category of magical marketing jargon.
09:24:03	copper	hm never mind
09:24:06	[Saint]	My limited understanding suggests that transcoding of any lossy source is going to be destructive in some fashion.
09:24:17	copper	they call it "the best generic pipe" to transport lossy audio
09:24:25	copper	yeah
09:24:35	copper	but it's not necessarily audible
09:24:42	copper	it definitely IS with SBC though
09:24:54	copper	SBC is a piss poor codec
09:25:32	copper	unless the three devices that I tested in 2009 were somehow faulty
09:25:38	[Saint]	That whole "non destructive" bit made me lose faith in taking the entire document seriously.
09:25:44	copper	hehe
09:26:03	copper	[Saint]: it's just engineers trying to explain their work, with the help of the marketing department!
09:26:57	[Saint]	"Its better, we promise - srsly guiz"
09:28:33	copper	didn't Bluetooth throuhput improve over the years?
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09:28:38	copper	or just not for A2DP?
09:28:48	copper	throughput
09:29:29	copper	I would have made lossless transcoding a priority from the start
09:29:35	kugel	apt-X is lossless isnt it?
09:29:53	copper	one version of it is
09:29:58	copper	not for bluetooth though
09:30:05	copper	bluetooth apt-X is 350 kbps
09:30:12	copper	362
09:30:15	copper	352
09:30:29	kugel	variable bitrate?
09:30:33	copper	only marginally higher than SBC (320)
09:30:37	kugel	or did you mistype :p
09:30:41	[Saint]	I believe so.
09:30:49	[Saint]	Re: variable
09:30:53	copper	dunno
09:31:04	copper	they mention that SBC can be VBR
09:32:05	*	kugel was making a joke
09:32:33	copper	meh, lossless would need about 3 times as much
09:33:21	copper	I'm sooo going to RMAA that thing
09:33:27	kugel	bluetooth audio with SBC is a non-starter for me
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09:33:28	[Saint]	I imagine celt or opus will come in handy for BT in future
09:33:52	copper	was gonna say
09:33:57	copper	needs moar Opus
09:34:13	copper	Opus is very late in the game though
09:34:33	[Saint]	And still not completed.
09:34:39	copper	it's not?
09:34:48	copper	what's not completed?
09:34:48	[Saint]	Not that I'm aware.
09:34:59	copper	version 1.1 is out
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10:08:08	JdGordon	kugel: [Saint] whats the story with the 2 raaa fixes from the rockboxcn guy? can they be pushed?
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10:25:43	invalid	gevaerts: hello again! i investigated the random file corruptions on ipod 5.5g some more. yesterday's build didn't bring any improvement, but apple's firmware did.
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12:35:36	wodz	pamaury: ping
12:35:45	pamaury	wodz: pong
12:36:31	wodz	pamaury: hwstub uses custom control packets, right? How hard would it be to make it running 'in-pair' with rockbox?
12:36:52	wodz	it should not interfere with ums or am I wrong?
12:37:04	pamaury	very easy
12:37:53	wodz	that might be interesting option then
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12:39:43	pamaury	let me have a look, I can tell you what is needed
12:42:22	pamaury	first you need to be able to report vendor device descriptors (the HWSTUB_DT_* descriptors). One would need to check but I think they can be handled by just adding a new usb driver, in the .get_config_descriptor function
12:43:10	pamaury	err sorry, in .control_request
12:44:19	pamaury	and similarly for read/write/... requests
12:45:07	pamaury	except for some reason I put them as CLASS specific
12:45:26	pamaury	I probably forgot to move them to VENDOR specific in the last change
13:00
13:00:06	wodz	how rb behaves when connecting cable while holding play/select/whatever - does it disable usb altogether or only ums part?
13:00:23	pamaury	wodz: only ums
13:00:43	wodz	good
13:00:51	pamaury	wodz: also if it makes life easier for integration, I can modify hwstub so that all hwstub stuff is put into an interface, rather than being vendor specific
13:01:22	pamaury	because the current stub uses no interface and assumes it is "alone"
13:02:06	wodz	I know too little about usb to understand the implications :-)
13:04:19	pamaury	ok, if you want I'll push some code to gerrit to help you tonight, I'll implement only the usb part to get started
13:05:14	wodz	thanks
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13:50:14	pamaury	jhMikeS: ping
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14:03:00	pamaury	jhMikeS: I need some help on digital radio, I would like the radio code to handle the case of digital radio (ie you get pcm data and need to playback to actually get sound). I'm kind of lost in the audio code, also the radio code already seem to be able to record either to file or for peak meter so it's probably not so hard to add playback but I don't know where to start
14:05:37	preglow	do we have any targets capable of hardware decoding digital radio?
14:06:01	pamaury	yes, plenty actually, all which use the stfm1000 tuner
14:06:16	pamaury	that's zenxfi2/3, nwze360/370/380
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14:06:35	pamaury	zenmx (wip)
14:06:44	pamaury	zenxfistyle
14:07:16	preglow	how boring :/
14:07:36	pamaury	this horrible chip even does RDS but you have to decode it yourself, you just get the raw demodulated RDS stream, same for audio so you have to do mono/stero and filtering by yourself if you want something correct
14:08:45	pamaury	anyway, for me the hard part is how to integrate this into our system because I know how to get the data from the chip
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15:35:37	seqer	Hi everyone. Can rockbox be used as media library. Actually I want only this feature: when i 'like' some song, the rockbox will move this audiofile into certain folder, so after it would be easier to copy that folder to my computer.
15:36:36	seqer	I know this sound very... strange, but .. I really need this feature. I don't like to mark songs with likes or stars or any of this stuff. I just want to create a folder with 'best songs' and that is all
15:38:06	ZincAlloy	you can copy and paste them into a folder
15:39:53	seqer	Manually? Just for your information: I'm not a rockbox-user, I'm planning it right now. I want to buy an audio player and install rockbox. By the way Thanks.
15:40:38	seqer	I was just wondering 'can I setup a custom button with custom action. Like a hotkey'. That would be great
15:43:53	ZincAlloy	yeah, manually. the file browser has the capabilities for that. while you can assign most options as shortcuts to the quickscreen you can't program more complex actions.
15:44:19	ZincAlloy	you can try out rockbox using a simulator build: rasher.dk/rockbox/simulator/">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/simulator/
15:44:29	seqer	and this is "complex action" right?
15:44:37	seqer	thanks for the link
15:45:15	ZincAlloy	yeah. you're trying to to two things at once. and they're not even options. I don't think what you're trying to do is possible
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15:45:59	seqer	well, anyhow thanks.
15:46:28	ZincAlloy	welcome.
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20:17:46	copper	pamaury: did you ever determine if my microsdxc card was somehow buggy?
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20:19:21	pamaury	copper: no, I had a hard time reproducing the bug
20:19:41	copper	I can't imagine why you had a harder time than me
20:19:45	pamaury	the only one time I managed to catch it, I was unable to determine what was the problem
20:19:58	copper	but you corrected a bug in your code?
20:20:05	pamaury	I found one bug in the code
20:20:16	pamaury	but I'm not confinced it is the bug you ran into
20:20:22	pamaury	*convinced
20:20:31	copper	meh
20:20:40	copper	I'll be using my new phone now, unfortunately
20:21:02	pamaury	actually I found two bugs but the other one was probably not causing any problem
20:21:07	copper	ping me if someone else complains about something similar
20:21:34	pamaury	I have someone complaining about audio stuttering on zenxfi2, maybe related to automatic folder change
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21:43:45	pamaury	who knows about the playback system ?
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21:55:59	kugel	pamaury: i do a bit
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21:57:42	pamaury	kugel: I want to make the radio screen able to handle digital radio
21:58:11	pamaury	the current code doesn't work because it assumes there is nothing to playback
21:58:37	pamaury	I'm trying to look at the code but I have no idea how to do that using the current playback code
21:58:59	kugel	good luck, it sounds like a lot of work :)
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21:59:28	kugel	though I would welcome it, could be used for internet radio on RaaA
21:59:32	pamaury	I'm sure it's not that difficult, it already does recording so the data is there, it "just" needs to be sent to mixer and playback code
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22:00:09	pamaury	maybe I'll try to see how the recording screen handles that when recording from SPDIF, I think it does playback too
22:00:24	kugel	do you need the codecs?
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22:33:53	kugel	pamaury: ^
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22:44:22	pamaury	kugel: no
22:44:34	pamaury	I have the raw pcm data
22:45:10	kugel	pamaury: i see. I would insert into the pcmbuf then
22:45:46	kugel	or mixer directly
22:46:44	kugel	yea, the latter, I think pcmbuf is a little highler layer handling track changes (for crossfade and stuff)
22:47:05	kugel	pamaury: what's the problem with that?
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22:47:39	pamaury	I don't know how it works, I only know the now the low level pcm code
22:47:46	pamaury	*know
22:48:24	pamaury	so how do I get the data and push it to the mixer ? It needs to interplay well with recording, we still want to be able to record the radio
22:49:03	kugel	pamaury: I suggest looking at how apps/pcmbuf.c calls the pcm_mixer_* functions
22:49:17	kugel	and mixer_*
22:50:29	kugel	basically you just have to call mixer_channel_play_data() with the appropriate callback
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22:51:36	pamaury	ok
22:52:09	pamaury	and how do I get the data ? Preferably, I would like the low level recording code to handle the details about how to get radio data, and then get the data from the recorder
22:52:42	kugel	how do you receive the radio payload?
22:53:15	kugel	why recording...?
22:54:03	pamaury	it is sent on a dedicated digital interface, but I don't want to code in apps/ to know that, it should just be able to record from radio as usual and get the data
22:54:15	pamaury	(by recording I mean pcm_rec_*)
22:54:21	kugel	radio playback doesn't involve recording
22:55:20	kugel	oh, see what you mean, you want it to act microphone source
22:55:22	pamaury	but it can record, and if it does, recording and playback you get the same data obvious
22:55:41	kugel	or rather spdif
22:56:15	pamaury	yeah, like spdif
22:56:30	kugel	I'm not sure that's the best approach
22:56:31	pamaury	but since there already is a radio source, we should just use it
22:56:50	pamaury	*I think there is
22:57:02	pamaury	or maybe it's just better to create a new one
22:57:24	kugel	can you just feed it from the ISR to a bounce buffer and then to the mixer for playback?
22:58:50	pamaury	yeah, but since mixer is in apps/, so apps/ code must do that
22:59:00	kugel	mixer is firmware
22:59:08	pamaury	oh
22:59:31	pamaury	then it's easier than I thought
22:59:49	kugel	it would still make sense to do parts of it in apps because of the radio gui
23:00
23:00:29	kugel	like volume control and actually connecting the radio source to the mixer
23:00:57		Join tchan [0] (~tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan)
23:00:59	kugel	but this is new stuff, you can go wild :)
23:01:28		Join Jinx [0] (Dojo@unaffiliated/jinx)
23:01:41	kugel	can there be underruns in case of bad signal quality?
23:02:27	pamaury	no, in theory the radio gives a stable 44.100KHz feed, but there is clock jitter
23:03:19	kugel	does it zero-fill automatically?
23:03:37	pamaury	nope, it gives you the raw demodulated signal
23:04:15	pamaury	it's up the the software to do filtering, stereo/mono handling in poor SNR, and even RDS DSP decoding
23:04:42	pamaury	so in case of bad quality you just get garbage, mostly :)
23:05:07	kugel	so it's not all that digital :)
23:05:38	pamaury	it's digital in the sense that the chip only does the ADC part if you prefer
23:06:18	pamaury	it's so weird
23:06:20	kugel	I think I would actually do lots of stuff in apps, so that DSP can be applied
23:08:40	kugel	but I agree it's ugly to implement the isr in apps
23:09:14		Quit amayer (Quit: Leaving)
23:09:48	pamaury	kugel: that's why I think it's better to present the radio as a recording source, so playing digital radio is like recording + playback
23:10:50	pamaury	the other alternative is to make the apps/ unaware that it is a digital radio, bypass all the DSP and go directly from radio isr to playback isr
23:10:55	kugel	currently recording doesn't show the radio screen and doesn't apply dsp
23:11:33	pamaury	kugel: the radio screen would do the recording and playback
23:12:13	pamaury	I'm just trying to understand the possibilities and choose the best one
23:14:16	kugel	as a first step I would implement the isr in radio.c and copy into a ring buffer. then, in the mixer callback I would apply dsr before passing the data
23:14:59	kugel	however I don't know if the mixer callback can run in the DMA irq context in which case an extra thread is probably required
23:15:35	pamaury	dsp you mean ?
23:16:32	kugel	yea
23:17:16	kugel	(if a thread turns out to be needed I'd try to resuse the audio thread (audio_thread.c))
23:18:31	kugel	btw, what target is this about?
23:19:51	pamaury	zenxfi2/3/style, nwze360/370/380, zenmx
23:20:08	kugel	can these do 48khz, and if yes, can the digital radio too?
23:20:20	kugel	(if not you need to resample)
23:21:21	pamaury	If I remember correctly, you can ask the radio front end to do 48Khz, I would need to check that
23:21:51	pamaury	(we don't have the documentation for the chip so it's always a bit shaky)
23:22:18	pamaury	for sure the digital link can do 48KHz, but that's not very interesting ^^
23:23:14	kugel	why not?
23:24:45	pamaury	because the radio frontend and the digital link are configured separately, if you set the frontend to 44.1KHz and the link to 48Khz, you will run into a disaster
23:26:22	kugel	but not when both can do 48khz
23:27:07	kugel	how do you deal with the clock jitter?
23:27:43	pamaury	in some leaked header, it appears there might be a bit to switch the frontend to 48Khz but I'll need to check that. Why do I need 48KHz and not 44.1KHz ?
23:27:59	pamaury	best is probably to insert samples from time to time in the isr
23:28:50		Join Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@adsl-98-80-222-148.mcn.bellsouth.net)
23:30:40	kugel	pamaury: if you can playback at 48khz the user can set that (yes you could ignore that just for radio playback too but you could also configure the radio do to 48khz to avoid reconfiguring the dac)
23:32:06	pamaury	let's stay with 44.1KHz for now ^^
23:32:19	pamaury	I hope the apps/ code do resampling for me
23:36:33	pamaury	kugel: in radio.c if I get data from the radio (let's do it with the ISR for now) then I push it to the audio thread with Q_AUDIO_PLAY, does it go through the mixer and DSP ?
23:37:05	pamaury	or is this only for files and I need to call the mixer directly ?
23:37:07	kugel	pamaury: better create a new set of Q_AUDIO_*
23:37:15	kugel	you don't want to call into playback.c
23:37:24	pamaury	ok
23:38:15	pamaury	Damn, I feel so lost in the in the apps/ code ^^
23:38:40	kugel	you then only need to have a function radio_playback_handler() which handles the event ids and doesn't return until radio is stopped
23:39:43	kugel	audio_thread.c is really just a thin wrapper which calls the handler depending on the current audio mode because they are mutually exclusive and waits for the handler to return
23:40:02	pamaury	Why doesn't the current radio code works this way ? Just because no one took care to rewrite it ?
23:40:27	pamaury	because the code in radioc.c looks horribly messy
23:40:53	kugel	because the analog audio is hard-wired to the audio outputs
23:41:10	kugel	there is no data processing involved

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