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#rockbox log for 2014-05-20

00:04:02 Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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03:57:38 Join eahm [0] (
03:58:05eahmtesting 171 files, different codecs and modes with the last dev build on clip zip
03:58:08fs-bluebot3Gerrit review #171 at : 3Add new actions to %Tp (Touchscreen areas) by Osborne Jacobs
03:58:36eahmand I think it just completely skipped TAK?
03:58:43eahmdoes rockbox support tak?
04:02:46eahmok it doesn't yet
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04:20:17 Join saratoga [0] (123e1c2a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
04:20:36saratogai think TAK was only recently reverse engineered
04:29:06eahmI still don't understand why he doesn't open it
04:29:14eahmit can easily become the most used, in months really
04:29:31eahmbut I won't use it unless it's open
04:29:32eahmand many like me
04:29:57 Quit invalid (Quit: Leaving.)
04:30:30saratogayeah i told the guy like 4 or 5 years ago
04:30:49saratogathat either he'd open it, the format would be forgotten, or it'd be reverse engineered eventually
04:31:15saratogahe got all cross at me, but I was 100% right
04:31:42eahmyep, agree
04:32:35eahmthere are rumors that iTunes may start with ALAC?
04:33:00saratogahere we go:
04:33:36eahmnice, is this already in ffmpeg?
04:33:42saratogaALAC works with itunes?
04:33:58eahmno, rumors that they will start selling alac
04:34:09eahmwith the next iphone/news/wwdc etc
04:35:18eahmthe hype of 24/96, some say they will start selling 24/96 this year
04:35:30eahmalac or some other? for sure not flac...mofos
04:35:39saratogai don't think they'd sell ALAC, since the licensing would be tricky to sell lossless
04:36:00saratogabut who knows, music sales are in the toilet so maybe the labels will be desperate enough
04:36:24eahmhopefully they will
04:36:32eahmi like alac enough
04:36:34saratogaprobably not 24 bit though, since ALAC can't actually compress those
04:36:38eahmone preset, no confusion
04:36:52eahmlossless etc, whoever doesn't like it can easily convert it
04:37:09eahmoh...the test is done
04:37:18eahmdoes it exit by itself?
04:37:21eahmnever did it before
04:38:13eahmoh nice, this is gold
04:38:43eahmill post it somewhere
04:39:29saratogajust pastebin it
04:39:29eahmfdkaac has some weird numbers...
04:40:54eahmrockbox sansa clip zip
04:42:08eahmalac nice ~31
04:42:33eahmflac is amazing, ~7,8,9
04:42:55eahmflac3 to flac7 only .40 difference
04:42:59eahmgood good codec
04:43:45eahmvorbis is high, higher than aac
04:44:05saratogacan you try that AAC file in the sim and see if it decodes there?
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04:44:39eahmyou mean try to open it?
04:45:17eahmthey open fine
04:45:43saratogait errored out in your test
04:45:46eahmyep all modes open fine
04:46:10saratogaI like that my WMA decoder is just about the fastest lossy decoder in the test
04:46:22eahmyes I was just looking at it
04:46:26eahmcrazy it didn't take off
04:46:46eahmnot like mp3 :)
04:46:52saratogaVorbis/AAC/WMA could be a lot faster on ARMv5+ but i never got around to optimizing their transforms
04:46:59saratogathey're kind of overoptimized for older ARM at the moment
04:47:32saratogathe Vorbis results in the test are also a bit misleading because the Clip has relatively slow memory relative to the processor clock, so memory intensive formats like Vorbis are a lot slower
04:47:52saratogai did a test ages ago with the Zip running both the CPU and memory at 40MHz the Vorbis was massively faster
04:47:56eahmyes, I wasn't expecting that on vorbis
04:47:59saratoga(in terms of MHz)
04:48:11saratogasmall cache, slow RAM
04:48:18saratogaplus the core clock is really high
04:48:26eahmshould I rerun fdk only again?
04:48:29saratogawe never really got boosting working properly on that player
04:48:49saratogacan you even play those files? it looks like test codec couldn't so i'd expect them to be skipped in rockbox
04:48:58eahmthey all play yes
04:49:01eahmplaying right now
04:49:29saratogai guess you could try testing just one file and see if it gives you an error message or some other clue
04:49:58saratogaheres my old testing and some comments:
04:50:19eahmyes I remember that
04:50:36eahmI wanted to test Opus also more than any other
04:50:53eahmI don't know if I like that codec yet
04:50:57saratogaOpus is kind of slow at the moment
04:50:59eahmI still like AAC and Vorbis more
04:51:06eahmyes, not yet at least I meant
04:51:12eahmit'll get better I'm sure
04:51:13saratogai did a tiny bit of optimization stuff over christmas, but haven't had time to finish it
04:51:26saratogait needs an ARM optimized FFT for weird transform lengths
04:52:44saratogahmm i don't know, outside of us no one is optimizing for ancient arm processors, and i'm too busy these days to do much open source stuff
04:53:02eahmsame log with one file only
04:53:12eahm0.01MHz and crazy%
04:53:26saratogaare you using the directory thing?
04:53:41saratogai think if you just open the file with test_codec you get no log at all
04:53:47saratogaand perhaps more debug info
04:54:17saratogathe sim might give more info too
04:54:40eahmopening as "Speed Test" only right now
04:55:00eahmsame log, did you mean that or something else?
04:55:12eahmand sorry I have no idea what the sim is
04:55:42saratogaif you open a file with test_codec I think it doesn't even write a log?
04:55:59saratogaIIRC the log is only when you try to decode a directory
04:56:09saratogaalthough i could be forgetting
04:56:33eahmwhen you click Open With... then test_codec you have:
04:56:53eahmSpeed Test, Speed Test folder, Write WAV etc.
04:57:03eahmthe first one doesn't create a log but shows it
04:57:10saratogaah yeah thats what i mean
04:57:12eahmthe very same that saves if you select the second
04:57:19eahmit shows the same one yes
04:57:41saratogaif it doesn't give you an error you'd have to debug it on pc using the sim or something else
04:58:19eahmsim = rockbox simulator?
04:58:55eahmI had no idea there was one
04:59:23saratogayeah, you can select it from the configure program
04:59:41saratogait compiles for PC and shows an SDL gui that approximates the device
04:59:57saratogaa lot of debug stuff that is ignored on device gets printed to the console
05:00:17eahmoh this is amazing, just opened the clip+ simulator
05:00:19eahmlet's see
05:01:34eahmCodec: calling entrypoint
05:01:39eahmCodec: not an encoder
05:01:45eahmCodec: entering run state
05:01:52eahmbut it plays
05:01:59eahmright now it's playing
05:02:40eahmim retarded, let me try the zip, im sure it's the same
05:02:46eahmi didnt see the file
05:03:44saratogaon the sim there should be almost no difference between devices as far as codecs are concerned, underneath they're all targeting your local PC and so essentially the same thing aside from the GUI
05:04:16eahmthis one has only one more line, other than browse etc.
05:04:25eahmrebuffer_handle():space is needed
05:04:38saratogabut since that file played on device, it'll most likely play on all the sims too
05:04:57saratogatry test_codec and see if it fails too
05:05:44eahmdecode time 0.00s - 0.00% realtime
05:06:06eahmthis was b128
05:06:11eahmthe m4 crashed the simulator
05:06:19eahmwin error etc, proper crash
05:06:27eahmtrying again
05:06:45eahmyep, crashed again
05:08:39saratogaif it plays normally but crashes in the sim that sounds like someone broke something
05:09:44saratogasorry, plays normally in the sim, but crashes in test_codec
05:11:11saratogacan you post a link to the file?
05:12:11eahmnot sure
05:12:25eahmdcc maybe, it's comfortably numb really, converted in all these files
05:12:36eahmpink floyd - comf... etc
05:12:57saratogai'm not even really sure what dcc is
05:13:09saratogabut when you tried it before my web browser had no idea what to do with it
05:13:20eahmohh, web client ok hold on
05:17:15saratogathose do look like normal AAC files, although i don't have anythign handy to look at them with at the moment
05:17:40eahmdone downloading?
05:17:55eahmthey are normal yes, made with fraunhofer fdk aac encoder
05:18:43saratogayes i'm done
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05:26:23inahdhey guys, i am having some issues with m4b format...
05:26:57inahdis there no way to play m4b through rockbox?
05:32:01saratogaassuming they're regular AAC files, they should just work
05:32:07saratogaif they're something weird they may or may not work
05:32:40inahdi honestly have no idea what they are
05:33:05inahdbut they are .m4b apparently
05:33:57 Quit Strife89 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
05:34:03inahdfile manager says they are mpeg-4 audiobook
05:34:37eahmeven wma voice gives 0.00s 0.0MHz
05:34:54eahm*% not MHz
05:35:10inahdoh wait, saratoga were you even talking to me?
05:39:54 Quit TheSeven (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
05:40:44saratogayes I was talking to you
05:40:55saratogaeahm: we don't support WMA voice
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05:41:53saratogatheres support for it in the ASF parser, and the beginning of a decoder, but its not usable
05:42:08eahmsome say wma is done anyway
05:42:13saratogakind of pointless anyway since its a dead format that was terrible even in its time
05:42:37eahmis it dead for sure? did MS say anything about it?
05:42:57eahmare they coming up with wma15 next year or something? they are craaazy.
05:43:33eahmif its dead for sure I'll take it off from my list
05:43:48saratogai don't think the windows media team even still exists
05:46:57inahdoh cool, yeah i am trying to figure out what to use to convert the m4b to mp3... using linux...
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06:06:21eahmeven OptimFROG, never liked it
06:06:38ParkerRinahd, ffmpeg
06:06:46ParkerROr lame
06:06:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:07:25inahdParkerR, i found a script mp3ify that seems to be using mplayer...
06:07:48inahdi think its working, but i had to rename them .m4a first
06:08:02ParkerRMore specifically
06:08:43ParkerROr even simpler avconv -i some/file.mb4 some/file.mp3
06:10:08inahdParkerR, how long do you think converting a file should take? it seems to be taking a long time
06:10:28ParkerRWell m4b has multiple chapters embedded
06:10:33ParkerRSo maybe a little bit
06:11:31inahdi am noticing the cursor is not blinking in the terminal
06:16:50eahmlater guys
06:16:58inahdalso, peace
06:16:58eahmthanks saratoga for the info
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06:17:33inahdokay it seems like its working but really really slowly
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10:30:00copper[Saint]: what's the state of Rockbox on Android?
10:35:42[Saint]It has a number of quirks, but it is largely usable.
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10:52:56copper[Saint]: what codec did you have in mind when you asked about the optimal preamp value?
10:53:01copperfor replaygain
10:55:53pamaurywodz: ping
10:56:32wodzpamaury: pong
10:58:09 Quit [Saint] (Remote host closed the connection)
10:58:29pamaurywodz: I had a look at the usb part of hwstub and I forgot some detail. At the moment, the RW and JUMP requests are device class (and not interface) to be able to use both wValue and wIndex => two 16-bit fields form 32-bit one so you can build an address
10:58:47pamauryif I make those interface requests, I will loose this ability
10:59:14wodzcan't you put address in payload?
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10:59:30pamaurywodz: yeah but then you have to make two control requests per R/W
10:59:35pamauryat the moment it's just one
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11:00:51wodzmaybe introduce ranged rw like address, size
11:00:56pamauryI'm thinking about have a flag somewhere to say if the device can receive device request or not, this way you can always fallback to some interface requests with two request per operation
11:01:10pamauryand use device request if available because that's faster
11:01:44pamaurythe current R/W is already ranged
11:06:56wodzI wouldn't complicate the thing. It is not meant to be blasting fast
11:08:05pamauryok, I'll see what I do
11:08:56pamauryactually for write, only one request suffices but I prefer to handle it the same way as read
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11:47:33pamauryjhMikeS: ping
11:52:09pamauryjhMikeS: why do some input source given to audio_input_mux() are commented as "recording only" in source files, where in export/config_caps.h, another comment says "Playback is implied in all this. Make sense? :)" ?
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15:26:02inahdokay so i converted this .m4b to .mp3, but now its playing at superspeed chipmunk style...
15:27:08inahdi used this script:
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16:07:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:08:28amayerinahd: what was the sample rate of the m4b you converted to mp3? if the sample rate was different you may get the chipmunk effect
16:10:31inahdamayer, i am not sure... i ended up using soundconverter and made it a .ogg
16:10:40inahdit worked very nicely
16:12:02amayerthat works although converting anything that is lossy to something else lossy you will lose sound quality
16:14:12copperamayer: does Rockbox support MPEG-4 audio books?
16:15:18amayercopper: Im not sure
16:17:25inahdapparently it will not play them for me...
16:31:35dfktm4a/m4b works fine for me - but that might depend on several factors, since anything non-standard might be in that mp4 container
16:31:50dfktor it might be DRMed, even
16:34:27[Saint]yeah - its a giant clusterfuck.
16:40:27dfktif a normal legit AAC stream is inside, then rewriting the container with mp4box, ffmpeg, or something else might be a good idea
16:40:42dfktand it's non-destructive
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17:04:44amayerjust out of curiosity is there a reason "scan disk" happens at startup and doesnt run while the player is disconnected from usb or just durring general runtime
17:06:06[Saint]Because you haven't fixed it yet.
17:06:46amayer*expected an answer along those lines*
17:07:07copperwalked right into it
17:07:10amayerI wasnt sure if it had to do with sdcards, or the memory stack
17:07:32[Saint]I don't think it has anything to do with either.
17:07:40amayerlike durring loading there is a trigger that needs to know the disk size (availble vs used) or something like that
17:08:19amayerfair enough
17:08:31[Saint]From memory we'll just try and commit the database and fall over if we can't.
17:08:47gevaertsIs it database?
17:08:51*gevaerts thinks it's dircache
17:09:05amayerI dont use database
17:09:38gevaertsI suspect it's because you need dircache to be initialised to use it at all. Updating can happen in the background, but something needs to be there on boot
17:09:41gevaertsNot sure though
17:10:18amayerit runs about 1/4 times I turn on my device. but I load/delete a lot of podcasts
17:10:55[Saint]IIUC, it should run every time. It may just be splashing too quick 3 of 4 times.
17:11:03gevaertsThere's also a dircache on-disk thing to speed things up
17:11:14gevaertsIf that's there and usable, you won't get the splash, I beloeve
17:11:26*gevaerts might be making things up of course :)
17:11:52amayergevaerts: Ive heard/read that somewhere before
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20:16:55pauldgrootGood evening
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20:26:32 Part LinusN
20:27:11amayerpauldgroot: good evening
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20:28:54pauldgrootAmayer hi
20:29:02kugelgevaerts: dircache on disk is only a thing on h100, unfortunately
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20:29:13pauldgrootI have a question, I own a iBasso DX90 which was just released
20:29:40pauldgrootHow hard would it be for me to port over Rockbox
20:29:51kugelbut the problem with dircache on disk is possible corruption after dual-boot, so it's safer this way
20:29:59pauldgrootI don't have much experience in programming but I do have a lot of time
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20:33:00kugelpauldgroot: given lots of time anything is realistically possible
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20:54:19amayerpauldgroot: It is most likely doable. It requires a certain level of knowledge. But like kugel said if you are willing to learn and spend the time it is def possible.
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20:57:17copperI think you guys may be underestimating the difficulty of the task for someone who doesn't code
20:57:41copperor overestimating the level of motivation of people
20:57:46copperand / or
20:58:28coppereven just learning themeing already takes quite a bit of time and dedication
20:58:54copperporting Rockbox to a whole new target? Please.
20:58:56gevaertscopper: yes, but themes are *hard* :)
20:59:05copperthemes are like HTML
20:59:13copperbut even HTML takes time
20:59:27copperI don't mean writing your first "Hello, World!"
20:59:32copperI mean doing anything worthy
20:59:50gevaertsThey're like HTML in the old days when every browser behaved differently and you never knew what workarounds you needed :)
21:00:03coppersomething like that!
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21:12:20pauldgrootI know html/css some php and javascript
21:12:34pauldgrootI have been theming for a long time
21:12:40pauldgrootHEx editing windows mobile dll files
21:12:52pauldgrootAnd doing stuff in xml
21:13:07pauldgrootAlso theming for MIUI lockscreens which requires basic coding
21:14:04saratogacan you program in c?
21:14:54saratogais the DX90 also hacked up android or something else?
21:18:27ZincAlloythemes aren't hard. sometimes it's tricky to make them do what you want them to do, but if you aren't trying to do anything fancy and new they're rather simple. it sure helps that it's easy to borrow code from working themes :)
21:21:27saratogaah some rockchip thing, so probably android
21:23:16RiDi made a rockbox skin in under a week, had to learn how to do it from scratch, but it has a lot of borrowed code from cabbiev2
21:24:07ZincAlloytook me an afternoon or so to make cabbiev2. and it was my first theme :)
21:25:09ZincAlloysome things had to be changed of course and that took a couple of days
21:25:52ZincAlloygetting the code to work didn't take long. Exporting all those graphics did. :)
21:26:14 Quit endee____ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
21:26:23RiDhah the graphics were fast for me
21:26:31RiDi guess it was the opposite
21:27:54ZincAlloycabbiev2 has plenty of graphics. If I had to come up with a new default theme I wouldn't use that many, just to make things easier
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21:30:03RiDgrr, retard dropbox
21:30:28RiDpublic links are still banned, yet i really have no idea where all these 20gb per day traffic is coming
21:31:53RiDi renamed the public folder almost 2 weeks ago
21:32:08RiDonly a link or two is still alive, and it's nothing i've ever shared in a website or forum or whatever... jesus
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22:29:51pauldgroot_Sorry I was gone for a sec
22:29:56pauldgroot_NEver programmed in c
22:30:09pauldgroot_DX90 is a sort of slimmed down android without dalvik
22:30:29pauldgroot_Probably comparable to the DX50
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22:38:03kugelpauldgroot_: without dalvik? interesting
22:38:26pauldgroot_yeah just read the thread on the forum
22:38:36pauldgroot_in dx50 development
22:39:07pauldgroot_They say it's all written in C on top of android which is looking more like linux than android
22:39:17 Nick pauldgroot_ is now known as pauldgroot (
22:40:30kugellol, the dx90 must be awesome, it has dedicated CPU core for each stereo channel!
22:41:22pauldgrootHaha yeah, if you are scrolling one channel slows down
22:41:41kugeland the battery is "Compatibe with S**sung S3(i9300)" :D
22:41:42pauldgrootAnd yet it's balanced inside they say
22:41:53pauldgrootThat's pretty great though
22:42:08pauldgrootAnd the SQ is outstanding, it can easily drive my HD600's
22:42:28kugelbut the battery life is really poor
22:42:34pauldgrootI just want/need crossfeed which they dont provide as of now
22:42:39pauldgrootIt's more then enough for me
22:42:49pauldgrootAnd if I need more I can get a spare battery
22:44:18kugelpretty sure an S3 can get multiple days of audio playback. how did they manage to get it down like this?
22:45:59kugelanyway, if it's android there an app-based port should be doable, though I don't know what APIs to use if there's no dalvik
22:47:07kugelnative ports are harder
22:47:22pauldgrootWhat is the benefit a a native port?
22:47:26pauldgrootMore control?
22:47:53kugelfull hardware access but you also need to write appropriate drivers
22:48:43kugelfull hardware accesses can yield better efficiency (but not necessarily)
22:49:02pauldgrootIs this possible, I don't know how wel rockchips are documented
22:49:20RiD"My Muisc"
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22:52:33pauldgrootHaha terrible
22:52:50pauldgrootIt's fixed in the firmware luckily
22:53:02RiDprobably a failed mockup
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22:53:21pauldgrootI'd really like to tinker on this thing and start learning some programming
22:53:42pauldgrootI've been wanting to for years but never got to do so
22:53:59pauldgrootEven though I'm unable to work and have loads of "free" time..
23:01:25kugelsad to hear that you're unable to work, but year it's a good opportunity
23:01:50kugeli suggested getting familiar with rockbox first by playing a bit around with the simulators
23:03:04kugelwell, first learn about C basics with online tutorials
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23:04:29pauldgrootWill do, first the temperature needs to go down a bit
23:04:41pauldgrootI'll keep in touch, thank you and good night
23:07:59saratogakugel: the ibasso players are mostly like that
23:08:23saratogai think rockchips just provides an Android SDK, so they used Android as a linux distribution and ported whatever linux music software they had
23:11:56 Quit amayer (Quit: Leaving)
23:15:53saratogabattery life is probably terrible because they did something stupid like include a DAC from a home theater receiver instead of a mobile part
23:16:38kugelthat could explain it
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23:20:20saratogai do like this trend in expensive hifi audio players
23:20:59saratogawere the vendor just admits that they don't know how to design a high quality mobile device, so they give up and just stick a 30000 mah battery and a part thats designed to run off of mains power inside a brick
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