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#rockbox log for 2014-06-06

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07:59:49wodz http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,48321.msg228584/topicseen.html#msg228584 is something which bothers me for quite a while. It comes from playlist.c
08:00
08:08:24 Quit Provel (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
08:12:23kugelwodz: perhaps it isnt closed properly upon usb connect?
08:14:08wodzI don't know this part of code to judge. I vaguely remember it started after usb-buflib fixes
08:14:17wodzkugel: ^
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09:26:09pamaurywodz: iirc this bug comes from the code now closing the file and then using the same file descriptor to read it after usb connection, and of course it doesn't work since the file has been closed
09:26:25pamaurys/closed/the descriptor doesn't exist anymore
09:32:47wodzmakes sense
09:34:20pamaurybut when I looked at it, it was that obvious how to fix that, I don't really know that part of the code
09:34:24pamaury*wasn't
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09:50:23coppersaratoga: it was showing about 2h 30 minutes with the battery fairly depleted, so I thought it wasn't working properly. Now I have a doubt with the modifications that I made to my iPod (SD card storage, new battery), so I'm running a battery benchmark to make sure.
09:51:52copperdoubts*
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10:40:47doubledogdare610Hello!
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11:00
11:04:07copperrunning for 90 minutes, battery at 66% :-/
11:05:57copperfuck
11:06:12coppermaybe the battery I got on eBay is bad
11:06:33copperit was completely depleted when I received it
11:07:02copperI still have the original battery, but damn if I'm going to re-open the iPod
11:08:14copperthe eBay ad reads "new battery"
11:09:15copperLi-Polymer, 580 mAh, 3.7V
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11:18:08Neihi,can I make a link to an app that directly starts it? if I add one from the context menu, upon starting it, I it only goes to the folder and I need a 2nd click to open it
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13:23:54wodz'Error accessing playlist control file' is weird. It comes from plalist.c playlist_resume() when playlist->control_fd = open(playlist->control_filename, O_RDWR); fails
13:24:28wodzso this is not the case of using closed fd
13:27:03gevaertsThe cases I've seen usually ended up being filesystem corruption
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13:28:32wodzits in sim
13:29:30wodzgevaerts: ^
13:29:40gevaertsHmmm
13:29:47gevaertsThat sounds more fun
13:30:22wodzI can't see why it fails that way
13:31:13gevaertsYou're sure it's there and not further on when parsing the file or something like that?
13:31:58 Join RiD [0] (Ghost@2.83.227.20)
13:33:44wodzits fairly simple to check - build any sim (I used video but you know) set brakepoint at playlist_resume() and see yourself
13:34:11*gevaerts nods
13:34:53wodzusb connect/disconnect cycle triggers this reliably
13:40:34wodzhmm, this is not always the case
13:45:17copperis the voltage value in the battery benchmark correct?
13:45:30copperit's pretty much the same for the Classic, Fuze+ and Clip+
13:45:43copper~4.2 V
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13:46:51copperand, those the maxium voltage value decrease as the battery gets older?
13:46:54coppermaximum*
13:48:26wodzli-ion/lipo batteries are designed to have 4.1 or 4.2 V when fully charged (depends on particular chemistry)
13:48:34wodzthis should not change with age
13:49:50coppererm
13:50:42copperso how do I know whether it's my battery that's bad, or if my SD card adapter is draining my battery stupidly fast?
13:51:13copperI'm waiting for the battery bench to finish, but it's looking pretty awful
13:51:13wodzwhat changes is the internal resistance of the cell which means increasing voltage drop when you are taking current from battery
13:51:21gevaertsNow with battery_bench, I suspect
13:51:36copper?
13:51:40copperyes I'm running battery_bench
13:51:40gevaertsCan't the classic measure current?
13:51:49gevaertsWell yes, you said :)
13:52:15gevaertsWhat I'm saying is that I doubt whether you're going to get enough information out of that to figure out where the problem is
13:52:18gevaertsWell
13:52:24gevaertsMaybe from the shape of the discharge curve?
13:52:33copperthis iPod modding adventure is turning out to be a bloody disaster
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13:53:11gevaertsDon't old/bad batteries go into a steep voltage drop line earlier than new ones?
13:53:20*gevaerts doesn't remember
13:53:45wodzgevaerts: yes, thats the effect of what I said :-)
13:54:23gevaertsHmmm
13:54:30gevaertsI'll take your word for it :)
13:54:43wodzthe old/bad battery tends to recover its voltage when you stop draining current from it as well
13:54:54copperbut wouldn't high power consumption show the same effect?
13:55:35copperbehavior*
13:55:39wodzthis is easily seen in hdd players when you have huge voltage drop on startup and then it recovers (unless it hits low level limit)
13:55:41gevaertscopper: http://www.analog.com/library/analogDialogue/archives/35-04/touchscreen/FIG_07.gif
13:55:51gevaertsThat bend is at a different place for older batteries
13:56:36gevaertswith place==voltage
13:56:45gevaertsSo if you plot the voltage against time you got from battery_bench, and compare it to another player with a battery with similar chemistry, you should be able to compare the bends
13:56:45wodzand the slope of 'shallow discharge' is steeper for old batteries
13:57:03copper4h 20 min, 15%
13:57:06gevaertsYes, but that doesn't help if you don't know how much current you're expecting
13:57:25gevaertsWhich is the case here, with the unknown quantity being this new SD adapter
13:57:50wodztrue
13:57:55copperhmmm
13:58:55wodzThe most reliable way is to measure current draw directly but unfortunately this is not the easiest way
13:59:39copperbattery is at 3.674 V right now
13:59:44gevaertsI know the ipod video can measure current, I suspect the classic might be able to do that too. Still, that gives you samples, not averages directly
14:00
14:00:10*gevaerts would compare the steep dropoff voltage with a few other devices
14:00:30gevaertsI suspect the other devices don't have to be the same at all, as long as they're also lipo
14:00:34copperthe battery graph in "debug" reads 3.681-3.813 V
14:00:38coppernot sure what that means
14:00:55copperit shows a 45° downward line
14:01:02gevaertsSo if your fuze+ and clip+ also start at 4.2V, I'd assume they're good enough to compare
14:01:26gevaertsI'd assume that to be the range of values displayed
14:01:27coppergevaerts: better yet, I still have previous battery bench results with my Classic
14:01:37gevaertsAh, good :)
14:01:39copperhttps://outpost.fr/tmp/2k6.txt
14:01:43copperthat's the old one
14:02:15wodzanyway classic cuts power to hdd when not in use. SD adapter would need to be severely screwed to take considerable more then spinning platters in activity periods.
14:04:13gevaertscopper: that one seems to "die" at 3.72V
14:04:51copperdid you plot it or did you just look at the values?
14:05:32wodzhuh. 3.7 is considered 'nominal voltage' for singe lipo cell
14:05:55copperwodz: maybe the adapter consumes too much while idling
14:06:51gevaertscopper: I ran gnuplot and said "plot '2k6.txt' using 2:5 with lines"
14:06:57wodzcopper: the power to adapter (well to hd) should be hard cut by ipod
14:07:49gevaertscopper: how old was that battery?
14:07:49coppergevaerts: nice, thanks
14:07:55gevaertsI agree that 3.7V seems early
14:08:16gevaertsBut if it was a bit older as well...
14:08:40copperdunno
14:08:43coppera year or two
14:09:01copperthat bench still shows 30 hours of playback
14:09:15gevaertsYes, so it can't have been *too* old
14:11:42wodzgevaerts: I can't now trigger 'Error playlist control file' bug in sim any more :/
14:11:59 Quit RiD (Quit: A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow.)
14:14:00copperbtw
14:14:18copperhow can the battery put out 4.2 V when it's a "3.7 V battery"
14:14:32gevaertsReverse marketing? :)
14:14:55copperThat is not an acceptable answer!
14:14:58copper:P
14:15:42copperis the iPod's battery supposed to be "3.7 V"
14:15:52copperor did I just buy a crappy one
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14:16:25gevaertsI believe lipo batteries are always sold as nominally 3.7V
14:17:04gevaertsThe thing is thay voltage depends on charge and current, so there's no single actual useful number
14:17:51gevaerts"The voltage of a Li-poly cell varies from about 2.7-3.0 V (discharged) to about 4.20-4.35 V (fully charged)" according to wikipedia, as well as "Nominal cell voltage 3.7 V"
14:18:43coppernice, thanks
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14:21:07wodzThe thing is there is always dc-dc converter involved so difference in actual cell voltage is not that important as long as it stays within limits.
14:21:50wodzBTW. http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/MpioRuntime - the first graph is using standard nokia battery from cellphone 3.7V
14:22:27wodzTop voltage is 4.0 just because that is how charging circuit in hd200 is setup
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14:42:02wodzha, little step forward with atj2135 - I can do usb soft disconnect and soft connect :-)
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14:52:13pamaurywodz: great ^^
14:53:50wodzpamaury: I resumed my work to bring hwstub to this platform :-)
14:54:18pamauryok, good to know, I put some code for hwstub on gerrit but it's unfinished, I should resume my work on it too
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16:07:55copperhttps://outpost.fr/tmp/KHs.txt
16:09:15copper6 hours ;-(
16:09:53copperhttps://outpost.fr/tmp/Xol.png/
16:10:02gevaertsCompared to the other one, that battery doesn't look bad as such to me
16:10:24copperreally?
16:10:40gevaertsAs in, the drop off voltage is actually lower
16:10:55gevaertsIt might be lower capacity than expected of course
16:10:59copperprevious graph: https://outpost.fr/tmp/CdV.png/
16:11:32copperso
16:11:44copperis there any conclusion that can be drawned from this?
16:11:48copperdrawn
16:11:58*gevaerts isn't sure
16:12:07copper6 hours is pathetic
16:12:09gevaertsI'd investigate current
16:12:28copperthat's barely a train trip to Paris
16:12:36gevaertsDoes the classic show current draw in the debug menu?
16:12:49ZincAlloyyou need a second iPod, so you can go to paris and back :)
16:12:49copperdunno
16:12:52copperit's charging
16:13:01copperZincAlloy: fuck that
16:13:04copperI'm done
16:13:11ZincAlloy:D
16:13:19copperI'll be using my smartphone and mourning my iPod and all that wasted time and money
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16:14:29copperI'll probably try to open it up again and test the original battery, whenever I'm calm enough
16:14:55copperwhat a total fiasco
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16:21:18copperi've been charging the battery for 15 minutes and it's already at 50%
16:21:23copperdoes that tell you guys anything?
16:21:47gevaertsThat's a bit suspicious
16:22:24copperwell, it's a €6 battery from eBay
16:22:31copperI thought that was cheap.
16:22:48copperI just need to test the original battery
16:23:23copperI'm already cringing at the idea of fighting with the iPod again to pry it open
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19:27:18copperhttps://outpost.fr/8ca → poststar.com: Randall James Jenks | Original URL: http://poststar.com/lifestyles/announcements/obituaries/randall-james-jenks/article_9896ad18-ed2e-11e3-9e06-001a4bcf887a.html
19:27:26copperthe Rockbox user who died recently
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22:01:14saratogathat was Marvin? Shame about that for such a young guy
22:01:26copperyes
22:04:53copperwe're really just here, until we're not
22:08:42RiDbetter make the most out of it then
22:08:50copperyup
22:09:58coppergood night
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