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| 11:05:00 | TheSeven | copper, gevaerts_: we sadly don't have current readings on the classic (yet) |
| 11:05:30 | TheSeven | there seems to be some analog mux in front of the adc, and we don't know how that one is controlled |
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| 11:05:46 | TheSeven | someone needs to look into the diagmode disassembly more closely |
| 11:05:58 | TheSeven | I definitly know that it has a current sensor though :) |
| 11:06:54 | TheSeven | given that we don't use the current sensor yet, forget about battery gauge readings while charging. those are way off (overestimating) |
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| 11:29:07 | copper | TheSeven: like I said, I just need to re-open the thing and test the original battery |
| 11:29:48 | copper | which I probably should have done with the "new" battery before closing the iPod |
| 11:29:58 | copper | *facepalm* |
| 11:30:27 | copper | I didn't think it was necessary, because it charged fine and the iPod worked fine |
| 11:31:34 | TheSeven | one thing that the graph showed was that the battery wasn't fully charged when you started the test. it was only around 90% or so. |
| 11:32:15 | copper | the old bench read 95% |
| 11:32:23 | copper | the new one reads 94% |
| 11:32:27 | copper | https://outpost.fr/tmp/2k6.txt |
| 11:32:33 | copper | https://outpost.fr/tmp/KHs.txt |
| 11:33:04 | TheSeven | the graphs start at 4250mV and 4100mV |
| 11:33:13 | copper | right |
| 11:33:28 | copper | that doesn't explain the awful battery life though, does it? |
| 11:33:42 | TheSeven | it only explains maybe 10-15% of it |
| 11:35:19 | copper | to be clear, Rockbox indicated that the iPod was fully charged |
| 11:35:25 | TheSeven | judging from the graphs I second gevaerts_'s suspicion that this might in fact be a difference in power *consumption*, not battery capacity |
| 11:35:27 | copper | well, maybe 99% |
| 11:35:39 | copper | that would be insane |
| 11:35:47 | TheSeven | i.e. something wrong with the build that you were running? |
| 11:36:03 | copper | uh |
| 11:36:18 | copper | I doubt it |
| 11:36:33 | copper | it's pre-JdGordon's changes |
| 11:36:46 | copper | I'm pretty sure it used to run fine on the HDD |
| 11:37:09 | copper | we'll see when I'm able to test the original battery |
| 11:37:09 | TheSeven | this was regular music playback with only occasional HDD spinup? which codec/bitrate? |
| 11:37:20 | copper | lossyflac |
| 11:37:28 | copper | i.e. ~440 kbps FLAC |
| 11:37:43 | TheSeven | hm, I guess the modifications in that build were minor? |
| 11:37:45 | JdGordon | what are you blaming on me this time? |
| 11:37:57 | copper | JdGordon: nothing, that's the point :) |
| 11:38:17 | TheSeven | copper: i.e. I can expect to see the same results with 440ff95? |
| 11:38:27 | copper | what same results |
| 11:38:28 | TheSeven | I might do a quick idle current test on that one... |
| 11:39:02 | copper | TheSeven: I would expect you to get much better battery life with the same build and a good battery and the original HDD |
| 11:39:35 | TheSeven | ...and I'm trying to prove that wrong and blame it on some software problem :) |
| 11:39:41 | copper | hehe |
| 11:39:44 | copper | go nuts |
| 11:41:03 | copper | the "new" battery arrived fully discharged, don't you think that's a little bit suspicious? |
| 11:41:22 | TheSeven | how deep discharged is that? |
| 11:42:28 | copper | what? |
| 11:42:40 | TheSeven | i.e. what voltage was it at when it arrived? |
| 11:42:46 | copper | how would I know |
| 11:43:08 | TheSeven | you probably don't, if you didn't measure it ;) |
| 11:43:09 | copper | I can't remember if the iPod wouldn't turn on at all, or if it briefly showed the emcore screen before turning off |
| 11:44:17 | TheSeven | so, assuming reasonable inner resistance, <3.5V... that's indeed a bit low |
| 11:44:23 | copper | I'll just remind the room for the record, that I'm merely a user :P |
| 11:44:49 | TheSeven | could also be that it just wasn't activated though and needs a brief charging pulse for it to come online? |
| 11:45:06 | copper | english please |
| 11:45:10 | copper | :P |
| 11:45:44 | TheSeven | it's generally a good practice to "disable" a battery (through its internal protection circuitry) after production |
| 11:46:03 | TheSeven | both to reduce self discharge by the protection circuitry, and to avoid short circuit accidents etc. |
| 11:46:15 | copper | is the battery ribbon isolated? |
| 11:46:52 | TheSeven | all but the part that goes into the connector should be |
| 11:47:32 | copper | stupid question |
| 11:48:33 | TheSeven | anyway, that kind of disabling would mean that the battery would appear dead to the ipod until you charge it a little bit, then it would connect again |
| 11:58:43 | | Quit Misanthropos (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 11:59:34 | TheSeven | copper: I guess all files that you did the battery bench with were encoded similarly? |
| 11:59:47 | TheSeven | can you give me one of those files so that I can test how the codec behaves? |
| 12:00 |
| 12:00:31 | TheSeven | (I will of course not use it beyond testing the codec, to avoid copyright infringement) |
| 12:01:22 | copper | battery currently at 4.174 V |
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| 12:02:26 | copper | TheSeven: it's just FLAC with 512 B blocks |
| 12:03:02 | copper | 4.090 V |
| 12:03:40 | copper | 93% |
| 12:03:48 | copper | down from 100% in a matter of minutes |
| 12:04:19 | copper | 90% |
| 12:04:23 | copper | doing nothing |
| 12:04:31 | TheSeven | don't trust the gauge in that area |
| 12:04:46 | copper | ok, let's see if I can open this thing |
| 12:07:13 | TheSeven | main menu idle current with current master: 22.80mA with USB connected (including 0.94mA charger quiescent current, and probably with the USB interface awake) |
| 12:07:45 | copper | meaning? |
| 12:08:45 | TheSeven | not much yet, just collecting data to analyze later |
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| 12:30:01 | copper | charging the original battery, will start the battbench soon |
| 12:30:35 | TheSeven | try to do the exact same thing with both batteries |
| 12:30:46 | TheSeven | i.e. same build, same audio files, same settings, same theme, ... |
| 12:30:49 | copper | yes |
| 12:32:19 | copper | I'm surprised I didn't sever some vital organs |
| 12:32:23 | copper | of the iPod, that is |
| 12:32:36 | copper | but the case is pretty much toast |
| 12:33:34 | * | TheSeven cripples USB detection so that the ipod powers down that ciruitry |
| 12:33:51 | TheSeven | now we have 12.17mA main menu idle current with master |
| 12:34:21 | TheSeven | copper: can you point me to similarly encoded audio files for a playback/codec test? |
| 12:34:43 | copper | hold on |
| 12:37:03 | copper | I'm uploading CC music |
| 12:37:12 | TheSeven | thanks .) |
| 12:37:25 | TheSeven | oops, that one lost an eye ;) |
| 12:37:33 | copper | did it hurt? |
| 12:38:10 | TheSeven | hm, only that smiley knows :P |
| 12:39:55 | copper | TheSeven: https://outpost.fr/stuff/lossyflac.zip |
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| 12:48:15 | TheSeven | hm, lossyflac seems to use next to no CPU time ;) |
| 12:49:03 | TheSeven | average playback current is around 13.4mA with default settings and without headphones plugged, and ignoring disk spinning times |
| 12:49:10 | TheSeven | that's just 1mA above idle |
| 12:49:26 | TheSeven | how many mAh does your battery claim to have? |
| 12:50:19 | copper | 580 |
| 12:50:27 | copper | battbench started with the original battery |
| 12:50:40 | TheSeven | hm, that would be about 40h of playback time in theory |
| 12:51:00 | TheSeven | now we're even down to 13.14mA |
| 12:51:05 | copper | https://outpost.fr/tmp/3cz.txt |
| 12:51:16 | copper | 25 hours with the original battery, the last time |
| 12:51:28 | copper | we couldn't figure out if there was a regression or if it was just my battery |
| 12:52:21 | TheSeven | ok, let me try that build |
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| 12:59:24 | TheSeven | copper: same behavior with 6979a5b, so no regression there |
| 12:59:42 | copper | same as what build? |
| 12:59:46 | copper | ah |
| 12:59:51 | copper | you mean no recent regression |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:03 | copper | I never thought there was :) |
| 13:01:30 | * | TheSeven tries 440ff95 |
| 13:02:03 | copper | oh, so I did misunderstand |
| 13:02:08 | copper | what build did you try first? |
| 13:04:44 | | Quit Keanu73 (Quit: Got to go to bed or got to go to school or need to do something. Bye!) |
| 13:05:21 | TheSeven | 440ff95 has similar currents as well |
| 13:05:36 | TheSeven | slightly higher, more like 13.48-13.50mA |
| 13:06:12 | TheSeven | copper: I'm basically comparing all builds that you did benches with against master to see if there are any differences at all |
| 13:06:21 | TheSeven | so far I haven't found anything suspicious |
| 13:09:56 | TheSeven | there are differences of ~500µA while the LCD is on, however they drop to 50-200µA with the LCD off... likely some UI CPU impact? |
| 13:10:18 | TheSeven | 3e1c492 shows ~200µA lower power consumption during playback compared to 440ff95 |
| 13:11:24 | TheSeven | so we basically have a "regression" between those that causes 1-2% less battery runtime |
| 13:11:49 | TheSeven | nothing really explain |
| 13:12:00 | TheSeven | nothing really explains the vast difference in the benches though* |
| 13:12:16 | TheSeven | so yes, looks like your battery isn't good |
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| 13:31:47 | RockBoxNewB | Helloooo, my dear friends in RB. I have a quite technical question about the RB database, and I hope someone of you might know the answer |
| 13:33:07 | RockBoxNewB | It's about the import/export modifications function basically. I'm one of the few people who use the RATINGS in Rockbox, meaning that I give a 0-10 rating to each of my songs on the device. Lately, I have been using TWO rockboxed DAPs, namely an iPod Classic and an iRiver H340. |
| 13:35:02 | RockBoxNewB | Thus, I need to migrate my ratings from one device to another. This works very fine using import/export mods. My question is now: does this function completely REPLACE the database on the target device, or does it ADD the ratings that were not present before ("synchronize" them, if you will)? |
| 13:37:45 | pamaury | RockBoxNewB: to be honest I have no idea |
| 13:38:39 | RockBoxNewB | Argh, I was afraid my question was too technical/special |
| 13:39:08 | RockBoxNewB | We probably need one of the guys who CREATED this function to answer it |
| 13:39:24 | TheSeven | ...or just have a look into the code |
| 13:39:47 | pamaury | Well, not that many people actually use the database, let alone the ratings, and the code is kind of a nightmare but let me give a quick look |
| 13:40:49 | RockBoxNewB | It would be simply awesome if I could use the devices simultaneously - meaning one at work and one at home - and then simply "merge" the databases into one that contains all the ratings I have given in the meantime |
| 13:43:46 | pamaury | RockBoxNewB: looking briefly at the code, import will only *replace* the tags following tags: play count, rating, play time, last played, commit id, last elapsed, last offset |
| 13:46:45 | RockBoxNewB | So to put this into a practical example: if I give 13 ratings on the H340, and 20 on the iPod at work, importing the file from the H340 to the iPod would "delete" the 20 ratings and bring the iPod to the same level as the H340, so that it also just has the 13 ratings? |
| 13:47:35 | pamaury | I think so |
| 13:47:41 | pamaury | best is probably to try though |
| 13:49:05 | RockBoxNewB | Oh, that's a pity. But of course, I understand that it's not worth chaging/adding this function if only so few people use the database/ratings |
| 13:51:41 | pamaury | actually some people would prefer to overwrite and some to merge, that would probably be two different functions |
| 13:52:00 | pamaury | I guess it's not that hard to implement but someone needs to do it |
| 13:54:45 | RockBoxNewB | I thought so, yes...but looking at the many things on the developers' to-do-list, I guess it would be difficult to find someone |
| 13:54:54 | RockBoxNewB | I wish I knew more about programming myself |
| 13:58:40 | | Quit Rower (Quit: Hmmm...) |
| 14:00 |
| 14:00:10 | RockBoxNewB | I've got another question, which is probably more simple (I hope). Is it possible for me to somehow deactivate the PictureFlow function? As I use "Set song rating" quite often, I sometimes accidentally click "PictureFlow" in the context menu...causing my DAP to load it for more than half an hour and becoming unusable in that time. I don't use PictureFlow at all, so it would be great if I could remove that option somehow... |
| 14:02:04 | RockBoxNewB | I guess "removing" something should be easier than modifying it, so there could be a way I hope |
| 14:05:34 | | Join Keanu73 [0] (~Keanu73@unaffiliated/keanu73) |
| 14:13:37 | TheSeven | RockBoxNewB: well you could make it less of a problem by just deleting the pictureflow plugin altogether |
| 14:13:47 | TheSeven | it would probably complain about a missing file if you hit that option then |
| 14:16:21 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 14:22:00 | TheSeven | there could probably even more usability friendly solutions involving shortcuts, but I don't really remember how all of that worked |
| 14:31:59 | RockBoxNewB | ALright, I understand. How can I remove that plugin? |
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| 14:43:10 | copper | ugh |
| 14:43:17 | copper | battery at 3.842 V, 55% |
| 14:43:42 | copper | benchmark running for about 2 hours |
| 14:44:32 | copper | consistent with the previous benchmark with the new battery |
| 14:47:39 | copper | ok, no point running the benchmark to the end |
| 14:47:54 | RockBoxNewB | copper, so you replaced the battery of your device and it still doesn't last long? |
| 14:48:12 | copper | it's not that |
| 14:48:21 | copper | I replaced the HDD with an SD card adapter |
| 14:48:29 | copper | and it seems to be drawing stupid amounts of power |
| 14:48:44 | copper | well, depleting the battery super fast |
| 14:48:56 | copper | ok |
| 14:48:57 | copper | game over |
| 14:49:43 | RockBoxNewB | Right, I understand. Might I ask what device you're using? I've been toying with the idea of using an SD card/SSD adapter with my iRiver H340... but if it's killing the battery in such a short time, there's no sense in doing that of course |
| 14:50:21 | copper | RockBoxNewB: http://www.tarkan.info/store with a 128 GB SDXC card from Lexar |
| 14:50:49 | copper | only my Lexar cards would even work with emCORE |
| 14:50:58 | | Quit ygrek (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 14:51:03 | | Quit Keanu73 (Quit: Got to go to bed or got to go to school or need to do something. Bye!) |
| 14:53:20 | RockBoxNewB | So it's an iPod, right? |
| 14:56:14 | copper | iPod Classic (last model) |
| 14:56:53 | TheSeven | RockBoxNewB: just remove .rockbox/rocks/demos/pictureflow.rock |
| 14:57:34 | TheSeven | copper: the adapter can't possibly drain the battery while idle, because we're physically shutting off power to it |
| 14:57:50 | TheSeven | so something must be keeping the disk "spinning" from rockbox's point of view, if the adapter is indeed the culprit |
| 14:58:08 | TheSeven | typically I'd expect such an adapter + SD card to consume significantly less power than an HDD |
| 14:58:59 | TheSeven | flac is of course a codec that has a fairly high bitrate, so it reads from the disk fairly often, but the impact should still be fairly small |
| 14:59:11 | RockBoxNewB | Thanks TheSeven, I'll try that right away! [By the way, how can I do what you always do, write a message and get my nickname highlighted in red?] |
| 14:59:17 | TheSeven | unless the throughput of that adapter is awful, causing it to take a very long time to fill the RAM buffer |
| 15:00 |
| 15:00:05 | TheSeven | RockBoxNewB: you just did that, this happens automatically if a nickname appears in a message |
| 15:00:17 | copper | no, the I/O activity indicator lights up very little |
| 15:00:26 | copper | anyway, I've lost interest |
| 15:00:27 | TheSeven | (hint: you can typically auto-complete nicknames with the tab key) |
| 15:00:32 | copper | my iPod is dead to me |
| 15:00:42 | copper | brb |
| 15:01:24 | TheSeven | copper: can you do some quick checks in the debugging menu? |
| 15:01:46 | RockBoxNewB | Really? Cool, I didn't know that because it's not highlighted on my screen XD |
| 15:02:17 | TheSeven | copper: start playback, then go to system => debug => view buffering thread |
| 15:03:21 | TheSeven | the usefl bar empties over time during playback, then (fairly quickly) refills. tell me how long it takes to fill |
| 15:05:07 | RockBoxNewB | Auto-completing nicknames doesn't seem to be working, however |
| 15:05:14 | TheSeven | it should go empty once every 60MB worth of music, which is probably some 15 minutes of flac |
| 15:05:49 | | Join Keanu73 [0] (~Keanu73@unaffiliated/keanu73) |
| 15:07:03 | TheSeven | filling that bar takes about 4 seconds (including 1.5 seconds of disk spinup) on my classic |
| 15:07:29 | | Part Keanu73 |
| 15:07:30 | TheSeven | your CF mod might be a bit slower, but it should still be below 30 seconds or so |
| 15:07:57 | TheSeven | (if you don't want for the buffer to drain, you can skip around by turning the wheel to force it to load new data) |
| 15:11:46 | | Quit RockBoxNewB (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
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| 15:26:54 | RockBoxNewB | TheSeven, I just tried what you suggested and removed pictureflow.rock. If I click on "PictureFlow" in the context menu accidentally now, all it does is say "can't open pictureflow.rock" and goes back to WPS. You're right that there's probably more usability-friendly stuff one could do, but your solution is completely sufficient for now! Thanks! |
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| 15:54:53 | copper | eh, apparently Amazon will take my SDXC card for a refund |
| 15:55:16 | copper | good thing I thought to check |
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| 16:51:11 | RockBoxNewB | copper, you're lucky there about the refund ;-) How much did that card cost, anyway? |
| 16:51:20 | copper | about 100 euros |
| 16:51:34 | copper | not lucky, Amazon customer service is stellar |
| 16:52:01 | copper | they always refund / exchange / re-ship without asking questions |
| 16:52:05 | copper | and fast, too |
| 16:52:22 | copper | they figure there's money to be made with returning customers |
| 16:52:58 | TheSeven | copper: I've made some very different experiences with them as well |
| 16:53:15 | TheSeven | basically they behave fine as long as you buy directly from them |
| 16:53:41 | copper | well yeah when you buy from a market place seller, you have to deal with the seller first |
| 16:53:47 | TheSeven | but if e.g. a marketplace seller screws up a warranty case, they just don't care at all and don't even let you give that marketplace seller a bad rating |
| 16:54:10 | TheSeven | "bought longer than 90 days ago => we don't care AT ALL" |
| 16:55:19 | TheSeven | over here in germany if a customer returns a broken device within 6 months after buying it, the seller must repair or refund it, unless he can prove that the buyer misused it |
| 16:55:48 | TheSeven | I had such a case with a rooted SGS3 phone, with the infamous superbrick bug |
| 16:56:36 | TheSeven | the samsung warranty repair center said that it's not covered by warranty (not because of the rooting, it was too broken to even figure that out, but because of a harmless little dent in the frame) |
| 16:56:50 | copper | we'll see how they handle this |
| 16:57:10 | TheSeven | however amazon was legally obliged to cover the repair or refund |
| 16:57:39 | RockBoxNewB | TheSeven, haha, I'm also German so I should know exactly what you're talking about XD |
| 16:58:01 | TheSeven | they did refund it after all, but it was a huge mess, had to call them a dozen times because they couldn't agree on whether the repair center has to send it back to me so I can send it back to amazon, or if the repair center can do that directly, and if so who has to tell them, etc |
| 16:58:43 | TheSeven | in this case they didn't even refuse to refund it, they were just terribly clueless on *how* to do it |
| 16:59:22 | TheSeven | copper: can you please, before you return it, do what I said above, as a final step of diagnostics? |
| 16:59:31 | TheSeven | (measure how long it takes to fill the audio buffer) |
| 16:59:47 | | Quit ygrek (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 17:00 |
| 17:00:10 | TheSeven | <TheSeven> copper: start playback, then go to system => debug => view buffering thread |
| 17:00:10 | TheSeven | <TheSeven> the usefl bar empties over time during playback, then (fairly quickly) refills. tell me how long it takes to fill |
| 17:00:10 | TheSeven | <TheSeven> it should go empty once every 60MB worth of music, which is probably some 15 minutes of flac |
| 17:00:10 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK TheSeven |
| 17:00:10 | TheSeven | <TheSeven> filling that bar takes about 4 seconds (including 1.5 seconds of disk spinup) on my classic |
| 17:00:10 | TheSeven | <TheSeven> your CF mod might be a bit slower, but it should still be below 30 seconds or so |
| 17:00:12 | TheSeven | <TheSeven> (if you don't want for the buffer to drain, you can skip around by turning the wheel to force it to load new data) |
| 17:01:22 | copper | ugh |
| 17:01:32 | copper | I've already reformatted the card |
| 17:01:41 | | Part RockBoxNewB |
| 17:03:28 | copper | hold on |
| 17:05:33 | copper | PANIC |
| 17:05:36 | copper | error formatting hard drive |
| 17:13:13 | copper | sorry but I'm done screwing around with that thing |
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| 21:48:28 | TheSeven | pamaury, funman, gevaerts: is anyone of you aware of issues with the synopsys/designware/s3c6400x/nano2g/ipod6g/amsv2/... USB core and TX transfers on multiple endpoints at the same time? |
| 21:48:37 | | Join tertu_ [0] (~quassel@143.44.65.14) |
| 21:48:49 | TheSeven | do we have any reports of that (windows enumeration trouble, HID issues, ...) on the AMS platforms with that core? |
| 21:48:54 | | Quit tertu (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 21:56:50 | bertrik | yes, there are issues as far as I know, but I don't know the details |
| 21:56:58 | bertrik | with AMSv2 for example |
| 21:58:52 | TheSeven | do these AMSv2 targets have HID enabled? |
| 21:59:08 | TheSeven | and if so, does HID interaction during file transfers cause bus freezes? |
| 21:59:21 | TheSeven | (i.e. that old nano2g problem) |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:43 | bertrik | I don't know |
| 22:01:10 | TheSeven | steffengy1: fyi ^ |
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| 22:27:46 | gevaerts | TheSeven: very vague here, but I do seem to remember HID being disabled on some AMS things due to ussyes |
| 22:27:49 | gevaerts | *issues |
| 22:33:45 | TheSeven | gevaerts: the ipod classic windows issues seem to be a clash between EP0 and MSC data being transmitted at the same time and getting mixed up somewhere |
| 22:33:54 | TheSeven | the fifo management of this old version of the core is a bit weird |
| 22:44:09 | TheSeven | to make matters even more confusing, there are newer versions of this core (which often share the same driver), which have dedicated endpoint FIFOs, solving most of this mess |
| 22:56:33 | Nei | hi, should the 6g ipod be chargeable from firewire? it doesnt :/ |
| 22:59:36 | TheSeven | I'm not sure, but I guess no |
| 23:00 |
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| 23:01:02 | soap | I thought they removed FW entirely eventually. 5th couldn't sync over it and 6th couldn't charge I thought. |
| 23:01:08 | Nei | the apple page claims it should still charce |
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| 23:01:11 | Nei | not sync though |
| 23:01:17 | soap | then my memory is faulty. |
| 23:01:26 | Nei | but I guess the firmware might need to implement it somehow too? |
| 23:02:25 | TheSeven | the only way it could support that if there would be a stepdown to the USB Vbus pin internally, which I doubt |
| 23:02:29 | TheSeven | where does apple claim that? |
| 23:06:41 | TheSeven | anyway, there's little point in charging these things using firewire... |
| 23:06:42 | pamaury | TheSeven: somehow yes, it seems HID or EP0 traffic can kill MSC |
| 23:07:02 | pamaury | but I never knew if it was because of bad programming of the fifo or something else |
| 23:07:28 | TheSeven | pamaury: which confirms my theory that this isn't so much flaky hardware (on the S5L series) after all, but rather a broken driver... just broken in what way? |
| 23:07:59 | TheSeven | this thing behaves perfectly fine with emcore/umsboot nowadays, although I haven't stress tested EP clashes with that (might be worth a try?) |
| 23:08:33 | Nei | mhm, I thought I found it on some official apple KB but now google only results in https://discussions.apple.com/message/15113928#15113928 |
| 23:08:41 | Nei | http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1384 |
| 23:09:27 | Nei | and this page http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/ipod/ipod-faq/ipods-charge-and-sync-firewire-usb2.html but thats not exactly apple official I guess |
| 23:09:30 | pamaury | TheSeven: can you identify the problem ? is this is bad fifo setup ? |
| 23:10:04 | TheSeven | "Note: iPod nano (4th generation and later) doesn't support FireWire and will not charge from any FireWire-based power source (including the iPod Hi-Fi)." this suggests that the nano 2g/3g still do |
| 23:10:13 | TheSeven | and the classic is basically the same generation as the nano 3g |
| 23:10:26 | TheSeven | the nano 2g explicitly stated something about 24V on the back |
| 23:10:43 | TheSeven | the classic indeed also says "5-30V 1A" |
| 23:10:46 | Nei | that's why I thought it might work but at least it doesnt in rockbox/emcore |
| 23:11:01 | TheSeven | so there might after all indeed be a stepdown converter somewhere, which generates the USB voltage internally |
| 23:11:22 | Nei | I still have an old firewire ipod so I thought I could reuse the power supply |
| 23:11:39 | Nei | well, minor issue anyway |
| 23:11:44 | Nei | just curious |
| 23:11:46 | TheSeven | pamaury: I haven't found the root cause yet, steffengy1 is looking into it. the new driver seems to handle it better for a still unknown reason |
| 23:12:01 | TheSeven | Nei: now you're making me curious as well though ;) |
| 23:12:17 | Nei | =) |
| 23:15:14 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 23:15:14 | * | TheSeven wonders where he put that old ipod classic mainboard |
| 23:15:39 | TheSeven | if someone gives me an ipod firewire cable, I can look into it ;) |
| 23:18:42 | pamaury | fixing those usb drivers would be awesome |
| 23:18:49 | user890104 | The iPod Nano 4th Gen no longer charges from the 12 V supply on the Firewire pins. If you tie Pins 25 and 27 together and then connect a 10 kOhm resistor to ±5 volts to pins 23 and 15 (or 16), it will charge. If you don't tie Pins 25 and 27 together, it won't charge. |
| 23:18:59 | user890104 | http://pinouts.ru/PortableDevices/ipod_pinout.shtml |
| 23:19:09 | TheSeven | pamaury: yes, it's a major blocker for the classic. if we can get that fixed, we can finally get rid of emcore altogether |
| 23:20:07 | TheSeven | user890104: shorting 25+27 is USB charging spec simulation |
| 23:20:19 | user890104 | ah... |
| 23:20:24 | Nei | if you were next door I could lend you mine |
| 23:20:28 | TheSeven | which supports the theory that this is after all just a stepdown to vbus |
| 23:20:48 | TheSeven | which also means that it should charge even without shorting those pins in emcore/rockbox |
| 23:21:24 | TheSeven | hm, the 10k pullup of vbus puzzles me |
| 23:22:01 | | Quit kuldeepdhaka (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 23:22:02 | | Quit tertu_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 23:22:08 | TheSeven | and another pullup to USB ground... that just doesn't make any sense at all |
| 23:23:57 | user890104 | a divider? |
| 23:24:30 | TheSeven | if I interpret that correctly they just connect firewire plus to GND through 10k |
| 23:24:34 | TheSeven | which is probably just useless |
| 23:25:12 | TheSeven | Nei: how long have you tried to charge it through firewire? |
| 23:25:24 | TheSeven | it might be possible that it charges and just doesn't report it |
| 23:25:49 | Nei | TheSeven: well that is true, I gave up on it after a few minutes of not reporting |
| 23:25:59 | Nei | I shall see if it silently charges |
| 23:26:27 | TheSeven | if it does, I'll walk you through some GPIO analysis to figure out how to detect that properly |
| 23:27:32 | TheSeven | if you go to system => debug => view I/O ports, does anything change if you plug it into firewire power? |
| 23:28:29 | * | TheSeven wonders if the diagmode disassembly could provide some more insight |
| 23:30:11 | Nei | in debug.battery, the voltage is dropping with firewire charge plugged in |
| 23:30:41 | TheSeven | not a good sign, but not necessarily a bad one either |
| 23:30:52 | TheSeven | what's the battery voltage right now? |
| 23:31:09 | TheSeven | it will only charge if it's below some threshold (somewhere between 4.0 and 4.1V I think) |
| 23:31:42 | TheSeven | pamaury: I have a patch that basically implants emcore's working usb driver into rockbox and adds quite a bit of required glue logic. however it doesn't work yet (hard freezes somewhere, likely in IRQ mode) |
| 23:32:03 | TheSeven | if you're interested in having a look at that, I could send you a patch |
| 23:32:15 | pamaury | TheSeven: can you post it to gerrit ? |
| 23:32:41 | TheSeven | it isn't quite ready for that yet. logf/splashf's scattered all over the place etc. |
| 23:32:47 | Nei | gpio11 changes to 0 with charger plugged in |
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| 23:33:07 | TheSeven | Nei: so 30 => 00? |
| 23:33:22 | Nei | thats right |
| 23:33:26 | pamaury | TheSeven: that's not problem, you can update new revisions, and that's still a great way to visualise it |
| 23:33:32 | Nei | couldnt see anything else changing |
| 23:33:40 | pamaury | but otherwise just send me the patch, I'll still interested ;) |
| 23:33:50 | Nei | batt is 3.0 now down to 2.9 |
| 23:33:59 | TheSeven | Nei: hm, it changes to 10 for USB charging |
| 23:34:04 | Nei | so it should charge |
| 23:34:05 | TheSeven | we might have found something here... |
| 23:34:36 | TheSeven | hm, it should already have powered off at 2.9 |
| 23:34:45 | TheSeven | probably quite a bit above that |
| 23:35:44 | Nei | err sory my bad |
| 23:35:48 | TheSeven | pamaury: http://paste.pm/h90.patch |
| 23:35:49 | Nei | 3.9 down to 3.8 |
| 23:35:57 | TheSeven | pamaury: do with it whatever you like :) |
| 23:36:24 | Nei | I guess that makes more sense;) |
| 23:36:30 | Nei | 66% or something |
| 23:36:47 | TheSeven | yes, that should charge... |
| 23:37:05 | Nei | it will charge on usb |
| 23:37:35 | pamaury | Ok i'll check that later, now I'm working on the Sansa View |
| 23:37:38 | TheSeven | Nei: can you try changing settings => general settings => system => battery => charge during usb connection to "force"? |
| 23:37:59 | TheSeven | it's probably waiting for USB bus activity which it will never see in this case |
| 23:40:24 | | Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 23:42:54 | Nei | ok I will watch it |
| 23:43:15 | Nei | the status screen says discharging but the voltage delta -0min reads 0,003 |
| 23:43:26 | Nei | so that seems to indicate charging after all |
| 23:43:35 | TheSeven | the delta is a bit small |
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| 23:46:25 | Nei | mhm well it's weird the delta is consistently small |
| 23:46:36 | Nei | 0,004, 0,002, 0,003 |
| 23:46:42 | Nei | but stays positive |
| 23:46:55 | TheSeven | suggests that it is *using* firewire power, but not charging |
| 23:49:23 | Nei | ah |
| 23:49:29 | Nei | interesting theory |
| 23:49:38 | Nei | funny for it to do /that/ |
| 23:49:54 | Nei | after unplugging it did a -0,040 in an instant |
| 23:50:07 | TheSeven | seems plausible |
| 23:51:03 | Nei | ok usb charger is like 0,013 |
| 23:51:13 | Nei | mhm. dang |
| 23:51:26 | Nei | uses firewire power but doesnt charge, lol |
| 23:51:51 | TheSeven | hm, our charger detection so far uses a bit in GPIO12 |
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| 23:55:18 | TheSeven | the LTC4066 chip is on some higher bits of GPIO11 |
| 23:55:55 | Nei | sorry I wont be a big help on the techical side |
| 23:56:17 | TheSeven | 80 means disable charging |
| 23:56:24 | TheSeven | 40 means fast charging |
| 23:56:59 | TheSeven | those are commands |
| 23:57:05 | TheSeven | seems like 20 is feedback for "charging" |
| 23:57:37 | Nei | I see, you have to tell it to charge |
| 23:57:56 | TheSeven | er, no, that's "external power present" inverted from what it looks like |
| 23:58:09 | TheSeven | and 10 is "charging" inverted - as least as far as USB is concerned |
| 23:58:22 | TheSeven | (we should actually implement those, rockbox currently doesn't use that information) |
| 23:58:40 | Nei | ah |
| 23:58:43 | TheSeven | this seems to indicate that the LTC actually tried to charge... |
| 23:58:59 | Nei | so what is 00 inverted |
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