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#rockbox log for 2014-07-06

00:11:29saratogafranklin: the bench_scalar plugin uses resize_on_load to perform image scaling
00:12:42saratogait imports that from "lib/jpeg_mem.h" which includes "resize.h"
00:13:00saratogai've never done plugin development, but these functions are used by the core for scaling things like album art
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02:36:03[Saint]preglow: what revision is your Rockbox binary built from (re: Android).
02:36:20[Saint]There was a commit a while ago that should've fixed the hang you describe.
02:36:31[Saint]At least, it has for everyone else I'm aware of...
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04:00:26franklinsaratoga: how can I scale a bitmap on demand?
04:01:04saratogano idea
04:05:29franklinSaint mentioned it here,48355.0.html
04:06:25[Saint]I mentioned it based on the fact that I know we have bitmap scaling functions in the core - and it should in theory be possible to use this. How, however, is another game entirely.
04:07:25[Saint]I'm on mobile presently, I'm fairly certain there's at least one example of a plugin scaling on demand in the source.
04:07:41franklinSame here
04:09:26saratogafranklin: have you looked at the test_resize plugin?
04:09:37saratogait seems to do what you want using smooth_resize_bitmap
04:09:58[Saint]Ah, yes. The testplugin. Thankyou.
04:10:23franklinNo, actually...
04:10:26saratogaby the way, if you haven't already, you should take a look at using grep
04:10:34saratogait makes finding things like this relatively easy
04:10:45franklinI am on mobile right now.
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04:13:10franklinSays it can't open /test.bmp
04:13:20franklinWhich exists.
04:14:15franklinAnd is a valid BMP file
04:18:35franklinGoodnight everyone
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10:15:11kugeljust mentioning that i still want to discuss the skin buffering change, no time now
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11:27:23ulmutulfranklin: Actually most plugins don't scale their bitmaps. Look at the Sudoku plugin (I think this come closest to your 2048 game): The number tiles are separate bitmaps for different screen sizes (in apps/plugins/bitmaps/native/sudoku_xyz.bmp)
11:28:23[Saint]...which is incredibly wasteful.
11:28:36[Saint]If you *can* scale bitmaps, why not?
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11:30:45ulmutulI think depending on the bitmap it may look ugly (for example scaled number tiles)
11:31:28[Saint]The scaling in Rockbox is actually pretty decent.
11:31:33[Saint]see: album art
11:31:37gevaerts[Saint]: why is that wasteful?
11:31:37ulmutulfranklin: the right bitmap size for compiling is choosen inside apps/plugins/bitmaps/native/SOURCES
11:32:51[Saint]gevaerts: if you can scale cleanly enough from a much smaller bitmap - why not?
11:33:23gevaerts[Saint]: that sounds unlikely to me
11:34:08[Saint]Once you get up to the larger screen sizes, it would start to be more effective in saving space.
11:34:24gevaertsUpscaling text nicely isn't trivial at all
11:35:00[Saint]We manage to do it with very reasonable results for album art.
11:35:40gevaertsDo we?
11:36:05[Saint]Well, my art doesn't turn into unreadable shitblobs, so, I'm going with yes.
11:36:37gevaertsunreadable != nice
11:36:56gevaerts*not unreadable
11:37:21[Saint]Well...I mean, if we're willing to let a plugin bring in potentially several MB of bitmaps...then, OK, I guess.
11:37:37gevaertsSeveral MB?
11:37:51*gevaerts wants to see the numbers
11:38:35gevaertsThe largest resolution where we care about game plugins is 640x480 IIRC
11:39:16gevaertsSo the tile size would be 120x120 max
11:39:35[Saint]Ok, so, whatever 17 X 120X120 bitmap costs out oat.
11:40:05[Saint]Not heaps, granted, but non-trivial.
11:40:44gevaertsThat's around half a megabyte
11:41:01gevaertsFor *one* rare target
11:41:03[Saint]Scaling also allows the plugin to make effective use of the entire screen width - potentially.
11:41:29gevaertsThe others are max. four times less
11:42:16gevaertsAlso, 17?
11:42:29[Saint]scale tiles to screen width/4. As opposed to getting a best-fitr bitmap that kinda fits, and having to center it all.
11:42:37gevaertsDo the numbers go that high?
11:42:46[Saint]17 is the highest iteration.
11:43:06gevaertsYou have the correct bitmaps for the screen size
11:43:55[Saint]Hmm, good point. I guess it doesn't matter how many bitmaps get shat into the source.
11:44:02*gevaerts doesn't actually believe it's possible to get that high a tile
11:44:18[Saint]Its theoretically possible.
11:44:20gevaerts17 is 128k...
11:44:24[Saint]Tremendously unlikely.
11:44:27[Saint]But possible.
11:45:43*gevaerts thinks about this
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11:47:14[Saint]I'm not sure if the current plugin supports undoes, so, yeah - getting that high would be a remarkable fluke.
11:47:50gevaertsIf it supports undoes, that's a bug!
11:48:46[Saint]Another problem, scaling or no, is that there's a few targets that won't be elegible for this plugin based solely on the numbers alone.
11:49:01[Saint]Even if the number was wrapped over several lines.
11:49:37[Saint]it wouldn't fit in the tile and be legible.
11:50:00*gevaerts doubts that
11:50:29[Saint]its potentially 4, 5+ character digits, side-by-side.
11:50:44gevaerts Not really :)
11:50:44[Saint]lowest res width is..what? 64? so - that's out for sure.
11:51:28gevaertsYou can write 128K, or just 128 in a different colour or reverse
11:51:29[Saint]Binary! :)
11:51:37[Saint]Ohhh, yeah, good point.
11:52:12gevaertsNot if you want scaled bitmaps of course :)
11:54:03*gevaerts thinks that if one uses patterns instead of numbers, it should be doable for the Player even
11:54:30gevaertsStill, almost certainly not worth the effort
11:54:43[Saint]beep the board out in morse.
11:54:47[Saint]No screen required.
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12:44:24***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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12:57:56JdGordonlebellium: hey, ping reminder about g890 please :)
12:58:47lebelliumJdGordon: :) I'll see if I can do that this afternoon
12:59:11lebelliumI also have to try something for pamaury
13:02:23lebelliumJdGordon: my current build on Clip Zip is dated March 2014. I don't use much my DAPs lately :S
13:04:01JdGordonis that the one that crashes on usb with your theme?
13:05:30lebelliumIt used to. But IIRC some patchs in 2013 already made the connection more stable.
13:06:40lebelliumnow it just connected to the PC without any issue
13:11:11lebelliumfor the moment I can't reproduce the issue with my current March build
13:17:44lebelliumJdGordon: 100% successful USB connection. It's useless for me to try your patch if it already works fine without it :S
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13:24:56lebelliumgevaerts: now that the SVG pic for E360 is ready, what are the steps to get it here ?
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14:22:54pamaurylebellium: we need to promote it to unstable
14:23:12pamauryto do so, it would be preferrable to have Rockbox Utility working, although that's not a requirement
14:23:26copperhmm, what?
14:23:33lebelliumR0 is not in RButil
14:23:44copperIf it's not a requirement, why is the Classic port still "unusable"?
14:23:58copperI thought that was precisely the requirement
14:24:07pamaurymaybe, I don't know to be honest ^^
14:24:14lebelliumyou thought wrong
14:24:18lebelliumunstable doesn't need RButil
14:24:37copperthen, what's the Classic still doing in the "special needs" class?
14:25:14copperdon't answer that
14:25:18copperI'm tired of asking
14:26:30lebelliumpamaury: battery benchmark just started
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14:29:18lebelliumpamaury: display getting on is weird BTW. It looks like it works in 2 steps
14:29:49pamaurylebellium: yeah I know, I have figured out why
14:29:54pamaurybut it's mostly costmetic ^^
14:29:58lebelliumsure :)
14:31:12pamaury*I haven't
14:32:02lebelliummy latest benchmark (November 2013) says 9:52
14:32:09lebelliumit can only be better I think :P
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14:41:49JdGordonlebellium: ah crap! I thought you had a skin which killed usb for no apparent reason?
14:42:46lebelliumJdGordon: it did. But it looks like you already did some fixes in 2013 or early 2014
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14:48:12lebelliumI haven't followed much the rockbox developement in 2014 and now I notice that when doing that you forget very quickly what you knew about it
14:48:29lebelliumI have no idea what build fixed my USB issues
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15:19:48preglow[Saint]: thanks, it's probably a month and a half old now
15:19:53preglow[Saint]: i'll update
15:20:06preglowhopefully, i can dig up a theme that makes sense somewhere too
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15:46:08gevaertscopper: no "native" bootloader, i.e. we rely on third-party stuff
15:47:26copperI'm sure I was told that half a dozen times
15:47:46preglowany secret to androidbox and fonts? rockbox ignores the rockbox/fonts/ folder i put on my sd card
15:48:04preglowi'll end up blind if i have to use the default font
15:48:13gevaertsI believe that's actually being worked on by someone now
15:48:29gevaertsSo don't give up hope :)
15:49:01copperI don't even have a Classic anymore
15:49:18coppermaybe I'll buy a used one later
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15:50:33copperI kinda miss the neatness of the parametric EQ that produces perfect curves :P
15:50:44gevaertsI also don't have a classic (never had one), but that never stopped me hoping it would be stable one day!
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15:53:40preglowbag of shit eq
15:54:28preglownothing, just trying to remember what some dude described the eq as sound like once, but couldn't remember it and reverted to an older rockbox description
15:54:55preglowgood, font down, let's find a theme
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16:30:11[Saint]preglow: did you look in the /other/ sdcard?
16:30:34[Saint]If you have a real sdcard, Rockbox is likely doing the typical Android thing and using emulated storage instead.
16:30:55[Saint]Usually something like /storage/sdcard0/
16:32:20[Saint]It'll be "the place Rockbox shits the bunch of files it creates on first launch". :)
16:32:38[Saint]The exact path to that can vary quite wildly by device/vendor
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16:48:19preglowthe android file system is such a mess
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16:49:53coppersome day, Google will completely disable sd card readers
16:49:57coppermark my words
16:50:10copper"just use the cloud!"
16:51:57preglowwell, i won't be using an android phone that day
16:52:22coppersd cards are already read-only in Android
16:52:48copper"see, sd cards don't work very well, you better use the cloud"
16:54:15copperwell, they're not really "read only", but there are some user rights shenanigans
16:55:19preglowreally now
16:56:23copperI can transfer files over WiFi with SwiFTP; my phone's bundled File Commander can write to it too, but not ES File Explorer or Poweramp
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18:11:37lebelliumg#892 looks nice!
18:13:17lebelliumor maybe #g892
18:13:38lebelliumI don't remember how linking works -_-
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20:32:20saratogascorche|sh: now that the spam problem on the forums is resolved, could you make it so that new users are automatically able to post again?
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21:20:37scorche`saratoga: yeah? - you think would be safe?
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21:20:48saratogai haven't rejected a spammer in ages
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21:21:07saratogaby the way, what was the solution?
21:21:41scorche`well, we tried a variety of different things that likely all factored in
21:21:56scorche`(in other words, we tried so many things, that i cant recall what the last thing was)
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21:31:19scorche`looks good
21:31:48scorche`the first time they post, they will still have to enter the captcha and question, but after that, the forums should recognise them as human
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21:37:31ZincAlloycaptchas are so hard these days, machines can decipher them better than humans do
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22:00:54franklinWhat units does the Samsung piezo driver use? The prototype's here: void piezo_start(unsigned short cycles, unsigned short periods);
22:02:45franklinIn firmware/target/arm/s518702/ipod6g/piezo-ipod6g.c.
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22:21:32saratogafrom the comments, the piezo is a PWM circuit with a 100KHz clock
22:23:20saratogaso one cycle is probably about 50 khz if theres no other scaling
22:23:35TheSevenany idea what "Mikey" might stand for? ("MikeyTask")
22:23:59TheSevenI've seen that turn up in multiple spots in apple firmwares, but never figured out what it means
22:25:18saratogaTheSeven: you remember how the 6g piezo works?
22:26:44TheSevenfull list of tasks that I've found: (and MikeyTask is the one that data aborts)
22:26:57TheSevensaratoga: do we have a driver for that?
22:27:24TheSevenI think on the nano2g it's just hooked up to a timer PWM gpio, and I don't remember the classic being different
22:28:06saratogayeah its basically the same on both
22:28:27saratogafrom the code it looks like a 100khz pwm, so one cycle = 50KHz square wave?
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22:29:38TheSevenmuch slower I think
22:29:49TheSevenmore like 1-5kHz square wave
22:30:38saratogaa beep is 40 cycles, so it has to be pretty fast
22:30:49saratogaif it was 1 khz, dividing down by 40 would be quite slow
22:31:27TheSeven40ms? seems reasonable
22:31:44saratogawell a period of 40 ms
22:31:55saratogaso that'd be 25hz
22:32:52TheSevenI was thinking more along the lines of 40 periods of 2.5kHz square wave or something like that
22:33:35TheSevenif you want to have a look at how apple does it, I know where it is in the disassembly
22:34:08saratogaits working in rockbox, so thats probably not needed
22:34:45saratogaIIUC, the driver just sets a timer that expires after X/2 cycles and inverts the driver level
22:35:38saratogaif the clock was 100khz, then the "40" used by the beep would give 100/2/40 = 1.25kHz
22:36:22saratogaeasy enough to test if someone has a 6g running rockbox handy
22:42:54saratogaBagder is apparently traveling around the US at the moment, is there anyone else who can poke the HTML manual builds and figure out why they stopped?
22:44:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:44:58TheSevenapple's click sounds very different from ours
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23:01:27saratogathat sounds like the kind of thing apple would obsessively optimize :)
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23:11:57TheSevenit sounds a lot "nicer" than ours, but ours is louder / more noticable :P
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23:41:47wowanamei believe when trying to read a font that isn't there
23:41:53wowanameand a glyph cache file is present
23:42:07wowanameit should fall back to the glyph cache
23:44:50gevaertsNo, it definitely shouldn't
23:45:11gevaertsIf the font isn't there, suchh a cache is by definition out of date
23:47:35wowanameanyway i'm off
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