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#rockbox log for 2014-11-30

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04:44:59 Join orzo [0] (
04:46:06orzois it correct behavior that rockbox bookmarks made on an sdcard inserted into a e280 will not work when that sdcard is inserted into an android phone and rockbox is run as an android app?
04:47:04orzoI believe the issue is that full paths are specified in the bmark file, and we see the e280 writing something like /<microSD1>/ where the rockbox android app writes and expects /mnt/sdcard/
04:47:37 Quit varogami (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
04:48:01orzoit's come up because i am writing an android app myself that reads/writes rockbox compatible bookmarks and i cannot see a way to be compatible with both...
04:48:52orzocurrently my app can accept either sort of path, but it writes the /<microSD1>/ path in order to be compatible with e280
04:49:27orzoi didn't realize until now that rockbox runs on android and so i installed it and see that it uses a different path on there which seems bad
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06:34:56[Saint]orzo: it should, by my understanding, try trimming the path down until it either finds a hit or gives up.
06:35:05[Saint]so - basically, yes, this may be expected.
06:36:47orzoexpected that it doesn't work?
06:37:27orzoi think android rockbox should use <microSD1> or accept it if e280 rockbox writes that
06:40:00orzoi think its a primary reason somebody might want to install rockbox on their android
06:40:08[Saint]That would require a lot of largely unnecessary magic.
06:40:13orzoin my case, my e280 is broken
06:40:30orzonow i have to transform all the bookmarks if i want to use them on android
06:40:53[Saint]I mean, in my many years here, exactly one person has complained of this.
06:41:03[Saint]So, it can't be in that much demand.
06:41:23orzoif i coded the magic would you object to it?
06:41:45[Saint]But, one can chalk this up to one of the many reasons why Rockbox on Android is not (nor will it be) marketed to the publec in its current state.
06:41:51orzoi think that i was the one who originally requested bookmarks to begin with
06:42:04orzothe feature didn't exist before i mentioned wanting it here
06:42:07[Saint]*public, uugh, typos.
06:42:39[Saint]And, you can certainly try...but I wouldn't like to gamble on it getting committed.
06:42:55[Saint]Walking over the playlists code for such a nice case might not be looked at favorably.
06:43:00 Quit froggyman (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
06:43:08[Saint]*niche, dammit.
06:43:10[Saint]cold hands.
06:44:13orzohow's the project organized? is there a dictator?
06:44:16[Saint]By my understanding if the end of the paths on either device match, it should "Just Work".
06:44:43orzowell your understanding is wrong
06:44:53orzoi mean, it might be right in "should"
06:44:56orzobut its wrong in actually does
06:45:11[Saint]It does on non-app targets, or...did.
06:45:38[Saint]I can't say with certainty it still does.
06:45:58orzowhen i had the wrong path in my bookmarks, it would list the bookmarks, but when i select one, it fails to go the right place and then forgets that any of the bookmarks exist
06:46:14[Saint]Oh dear.
06:46:33orzowhen i edited the bmark files to have the right path, they work fine
06:46:52[Saint]I thought bookmarks and playlists were handled rather similarly in this regard, I suppose not.
06:48:09 Quit ikeboy (Quit: Leaving)
06:48:39orzoi'm not sure what you mean about the playlist case. Do you mean a path to a music file that it reads from an m3u8 file will work with either <microSD1> or /mnt/sdcard at the begginning of it?
06:49:46[Saint]To my understanding, yes. It should try stripping sections of the path until it finds a hit.
06:50:05[Saint]or, doesn't.
06:50:26orzoso if i put a filename without any path in front, that file can be anywhere in my entire filesystem and it will just find the first match and use it?
06:50:34[Saint]I had thought that bookmarks worked similarly, but this calls that into question pretty drastically.
06:50:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:50:52 Quit JdGordon_ (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
06:53:29[Saint]It pained me to do so, but I kinda turned my back on the Android port. A lot of people wasted a lot of time on it. And, its very, very sad.
06:53:46[Saint]Countless hours lost barking up the wrong tree, as it were.
06:54:01orzoi'm running it on android emu and it seems pretty slick
06:54:09orzoi didn't expet the touch screen to work so well
06:54:12[Saint]The only way Rockbox makes sense on Android is as a central Rockbox playback library with a native UI.
06:54:24[Saint]At present, bringing our own UI to the party only hurts us.
06:55:06orzoa rockbox playback library would be useful for my app
06:55:13[Saint]one exists.
06:55:30orzoi wrote my app to replace my rockbox mp3 player for audio books, android audio book players were disatisfying to me
06:55:31[Saint]you might want to look at the warble library.
06:55:54orzobut certain features don't exist in android's MediaPlayer component/service. Such as playback speed and pitch control
06:56:03orzothose features are significant for audio books in my opinion
06:56:47orzois warble related to rockbox?
06:56:53[Saint]Warble is in infancy still, just a proof of concept for a GSoC task, but it might provide a fine base to grow from for someone who wanted it.
06:57:00[Saint]Yes, inded it is.
06:57:33[Saint]I believe there's only very basic playback and seeking implemented thus far.
06:57:39[Saint]and no one has poked it in years.
06:58:09orzowell i was thinking i could get gthe features i wanted by using mplayer
06:59:28orzodoes warble have a home page?
07:00:00[Saint]that's the one.
07:00:17 Quit Strife89 (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
07:00:23[Saint]Its not well documented, but it still compiles.
07:01:59orzodoes it use rockbox's latest audio code or is sort of branched off on its own and rotting?
07:02:01[Saint]I feel like kicking myself for my Rockbox/Android ventures.
07:02:09[Saint]I backed the wrong horse.
07:02:23orzoi mean
07:02:27orzoit looks good to me
07:02:39[Saint]I really thought we could do it, and do it well, with our own theme engine as the primary UI.
07:02:54[Saint]But that makes things so awkward its not even funny.
07:03:06[Saint]the main problem, resolution specific binaries.
07:03:19orzoyes i read that on the wiki
07:03:30orzobut the wiki mentions there's a dynamic branch
07:03:39orzodynamic resolution branch of rockbox
07:03:46orzoseems like a simple solution to me
07:04:03orzowhy not just distribute a build based on that?
07:04:41[Saint]That came with its own mishaps, I'm not overly sure whay it was abandoned but I think the general consensus was that it wasn't "The Right Way" to do it.
07:05:08[Saint]"The Right Way" being a centralized library and a native UI.
07:06:08[Saint]Its fine for people who are prepared to compile for their own devices, though. And almost perfectly usable.
07:09:00orzowell is the native ui + centralized library ever going to happen? because if the "right way" isn't likely to happen any time soon, then maybe the wrong way isn't such a bad idea
07:09:25[Saint]Will it ever happen isn;t something I can answer. I can however say:
07:09:34[Saint]"No one is working towards this /now/."
07:09:57orzodo you use rockbox on your android?
07:10:35[Saint]Not for a while.
07:11:09[Saint]I worked towards creating a largely resolution agnostic theme for a while, and I'm most of the way there, but real life got in the way.
07:11:23[Saint]That's the story for a lot of us.
07:11:26[Saint]Real life happened.
07:11:39[Saint]Getting old, family, work stuffs, higher learning, etc.
07:11:40orzoyou make it sound like rockbox has stalled
07:11:44[Saint]It has.
07:11:48orzooh crap
07:11:48[Saint]Its no secret.
07:12:16[Saint]There's still a few active submitters, but thoughput is nowhere near what it was, say, 2 years ago.
07:13:04orzowell i'm a fan of the project going back years
07:13:11orzoi loved my rockbox mp3 player
07:13:29[Saint]The last GSoC attempt was a bit of a failure, and I don't think anyone has bothered for recent GSoC's.
07:13:37[Saint]Its hard to attract new life to the project.
07:13:46[Saint]But I'd love it to happen. Just not sure how.
07:14:08orzowell i was going to advertise compatibilty with my app
07:15:46orzowas the touchscreen ui support added for the android port or was that already in the works? rockbox doesn't really support any touchscreen mp3 players that i know of...
07:15:59[Saint]It was already there.
07:16:04[Saint]For the Cown D2.
07:16:24[Saint](a very obscure device I'm not surprised you're not familiar with)
07:18:33orzodo you think android/smartphones has hurt rockbox's vitality? people use those devices for their mp3 playing needs now?
07:19:24orzowell clearly your android efforts should not be wasted
07:19:37[Saint]They've /almost/ completely killed the DAP market. Now there's only the cheap semi-disposable types (think gym bunnies), and the high end audiophile types.
07:20:09orzoi notice that my e280 hasn't depreciated at all if it worked
07:20:19orzoit sells for more than what i paid in fact
07:21:07[Saint]Well, I shouldn;t say "only", there's definitely still midrange consumer DAPs still on the market, but they're getting rare.
07:21:35[Saint]Joe Average doesn't want to carry multiple devices and is fine with shitty audio and lack of features.
07:22:25foolshe200s are hefty feeling, the scroll wheel is a bit plasticy feeling, but it's a solid build I have three :)
07:22:33orzoi was early to the linux-based smartphone craze, i had an openmoko before android was released
07:22:50[Saint]Oh wow. That old chesnut.
07:23:04[Saint]I guess you had an N900 too?
07:23:08*[Saint] still does
07:23:14orzothat system sucked, and i though tthey should use rockbox as a base instead and add phone features
07:23:27orzoi sold my openmoko
07:24:44orzowell it probably was a good idea
07:24:59orzorockbox would be an alternate firmware for android phones then
07:26:36orzowe'd dual boot maybe
07:29:55orzoby the way, the touch-senstive seek bar is a disaster for audio books
07:30:08orzorockbox without a touch screen doesn't ahve that issue
07:30:21orzobut i notice the android port makes the same annoying mistake as all the damn android apps
07:31:20orzonot sure why it happened
07:31:36orzogues the Cowen guys dropped that ball
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08:01:14orzoi think that the "right way" development doesnt make sense at this time considering how finished the android port is. I think the project should finish up your resolution-independent theme and release for android asap
08:01:23orzoit makes no sense to throw away all the work you've done
08:02:29orzoit'd probably help attract new developers
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09:25:35natanelhohi ppl
09:26:28natanelhoi started to program with lua on rockbox. can some1 give me ideas for a project?
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09:30:20natanelhomaybe U can give me an idea for a project?
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09:42:32natanelhocan i call c functions in lua for rb?
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11:17:48wodzAnyone knows the details of our sd driver? What I found peculiar is that cmd(SD_SEND_IF_COND,0x1aa, &response, R3) expects 0x1aa in response for sd_v2 cards. In fact low 8bits of response is crc + end bit. That means that driver is supposed to strip crc field. BUT in parse_csd() the fields are extracted as if crc was there. I don't get this
11:22:23wodzIs it because we reverse the word order for R2 response?
11:22:31wodzamiconn: ?
11:23:12*amiconn doesn't know the SD driver
11:23:23amiconnOnly MMC, and that driver is Ondio specific
11:23:38amiconn...and uses SPI mode
11:25:34wodzamiconn: but wrote card_extract_bits() which confuses me
11:25:57wodzamiconn: it seems like it expects words in reversed order
11:26:24wodzI mean it expects bit[31:0] in response[3]
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11:31:16wodzamiconn: ?
11:33:37wodzhmm, seems like most controllers strips crc field in hw.
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13:05:03pamaurywodz: just passing by, the sd code expects words to be swapped (at least on imx I swap the response words)
13:05:49pamauryand also the CRC is always stripped by the hardware (otherwise it wouldn't fit). The SEND_IF_COND contains a pattern (0xaa) which the device must send back that's why the answer is 0x1aa iird
13:05:56wodzpamaury: on atj it is even worst I think as RESP0 contains CRC7 + end bit
13:06:21pamaurythat's seems very unlikely, where would you fit this in 32-bit ?!
13:06:22wodzthere are RESP0-RESP4 on atj
13:06:30pamauryah ok
13:06:47pamaurybut the hardware does crc checking for you ?
13:06:48wodzRESP4 is only 8bits - exactly this
13:07:16wodzyes and no. It calculates crc but I need to manually compare RESP0 & 0xff with calculated value
13:07:20pamaury(also some requests must not be CRC checked)
13:08:26wodznow I guess I am facing some timing problems as sometimes the code works, sometimes not
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18:26:05wodzpamaury: what is CMD23 at the very end of imx233 sd card init?
18:26:39pamauryCMD23 is SET_BLOCK_COUNT
18:26:40 Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
18:26:50wodzwhat it is good for?
18:27:37pamauryit avoids doing open-ended transfers for read/write. On device which support it, it is usually faster to specify the block count in advance
18:28:13pamauryI added it because it's essentially free: MMC uses CMD23 anyway, it's mandatory, so on SD it's only a matter of probing support
18:28:44wodzand support it in read/write routine, right?
18:29:05pamauryyes but because I need to support it for mmc anyway...
18:30:02pamauryessentially the difference is that instead of doing SD_READ, xfer * N, STOP_TRANSMISSION you do SET_BLOCK_COUNT(N), SD_READ, xfer * N
18:30:20pamaury(except on error)
18:30:28wodzpamaury: Could you remind me what why we do data transfer after SD_SWITCH_FUNC ?
18:31:34pamaurySD_SWITCH_FUNC returns 64-byte of data which contain information about High-Speed support iirc
18:32:21pamauryhowever on imx233 I ran into the issue that some cards advertising High-Speed mode don't work well at this speed. Maybe the problem comes from incorrect pull-ups / drive strength, I don't know
18:32:27pamauryso it's disabled
18:33:34wodznot getting this 64bytes from card is a bug, right?
18:35:05pamauryon some cards it will confuse the device
18:35:34pamauryat least I ran into some cards which were quite unhappy when one did not retrieve the data
18:35:43wodzSo rk27xx driver is buggy then. I could swear I fixed this once. Maybe in some local branch :-(
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18:36:06pamauryiirc we identified this bug together, so I thought you fixed it too
18:36:40wodzI definitely forgot to push this for rk27xx
18:37:31wodzpamaury: Anyway, I can chat with the card on ATJ. Now I need to get data.
18:37:44pamaurycool :)
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18:38:23wodzI didn't try switching card to 4bit mode but OF does this so I don't expect problems
18:39:31wodzpamaury: Do you know if there is some const field (like all 0s or 1s) in CSD so I can be sure I did byte shifting right?
18:40:01 Quit RiDD (Quit: A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow.)
18:41:34pamaurythere is the CSD_STRUCTURE slice at 127:126 which contains the CSD version, it's usually 1
18:41:55pamauryor 0 (standard capacity) (1 is high capacity)
18:42:18wodzit reads as 0 on my 2GB card
18:42:22pamauryat 73:62 there is C_SIZE that's the device size
18:42:43pamauryand at 49:47 there is C_SIZE_MULT
18:43:06pamauryequation is: memory capacity = BLOCKNR * BLOCK_LEN
18:43:24pamaurywhere BLOCKNR = (C_SIZE+1) * MULT
18:43:24pamaurywhere MULT = 2^(C_SIZE_MULT+2)
18:43:43pamaurywhere BLOCK_LEN = 2^(READ_BL_LEN)
18:44:03pamauryand READ_BL_LEN is at slice 83:80
18:44:42pamaurybeware that all slices numbers include the CRC, ie CRC is at slice 7:1
18:45:01wodzThanks, I need to crosscheck this values.
18:45:52wodzpamaury: I know. I *think* thats why we use reversed word order. That way, counting backward we don't have to take into account CRC and end bit
18:46:25wodzand sd_parse_csd() uses regular slices
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18:47:19pamauryah and I forgot, the device size computation is different when CSD is 1.0 instead of 2.0
18:47:27pamaurybest is to look at sd_parse_csd
18:47:50pamauryindeed make sense
18:48:51wodzis there a way to read CSD from PC?
18:49:05wodzI mean placing card into reader
18:50:08pamauryyeah I think so, using /proc or /sys
18:50:10pamaurylet me check that
18:50:49wodzyeah, /sys
18:50:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:50:59wodzyou 'only' need to find proper path :P
18:51:10pamaurycat /sys/bus/mmc/devices/mmcX:Y/csd
18:51:29pamaurythere won't be much choice for X and Y, actually one if you have only one card inserted
19:08:11wodzhmm, linux reports csd with cleared crc7 and end bit and apparently not right shifted
19:10:55wodzI am truly confused
19:18:37 Quit wodz (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
19:19:29[Franklin]wodz: another world doesn't look that bad in grayscale, to me at least
19:19:36[Franklin]just the dark scenes look bad
19:19:55[Franklin]like the underwater scene
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20:11:43pamaurywodz: did you figure out your csd problem ?
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20:13:31wodznot yet, I am still in the middle of the process of sending my children to bed
20:16:37wodzpamaury: yeah looks like I figured out
20:18:35 Quit rela (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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20:20:57wodznow I get timeout on send_cmd(CMD.SET_CLR_CARD_DETECT, 0, RES.R1, rsp)
20:23:45pamauryI'm puzzled, I don't find anything in the spec saying this is mandatory
20:24:26wodzI took this from one of our drivers
20:24:44 Quit n17ikh (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
20:25:02wodzanyway If I comment this out it timeouts on next one which is send_cmd(CMD.SWITCH_FUNC, 0x80fffff1, RES.R1, rsp)
20:25:19 Quit Strife89 (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
20:26:59pamaurywhat is the last command sent before this ?
20:27:27wodzsend_cmd(CMD.SET_BUS_WIDTH, 2, RES.R1, rsp)
20:27:46 Quit cmhobbs (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
20:27:52pamaurydid you tell the controller to switch to 4-bit mode ?
20:28:07wodzfor commands it doesn't matter
20:28:38pamaurybut for data it matters in switch_func it does ;) but yeah you have a point
20:28:39pamauryby the way, if you do this in lua, it would be very interesting to have some generic
20:29:19pamauryI guess you paid attention that set_bus_width is a ACMD so you first send APP_CMD and then the command ?
20:29:36*pamaury goes for dinner
20:29:44wodzakhm, that might be that
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20:33:11wodzyeah, that was it
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20:34:14[Franklin]\o foolsh
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20:51:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:08:38foolsho/ [Franklin]
21:16:39foolsh\o copper
21:17:31wodzhmm, OF calcs CRC7 only for R1 response
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21:27:06[Saint]In a 'compiling RaaA for Android' guide, should I bother explaining about getting multiarch working on 'elderly' debianesque systems, or, just say fuck it and tell them to upgrade to a modern distribution.
21:27:27[Saint]If I do the former, literally 3/4 of the guide revolves around setting up the environment.
21:27:38[Saint]some several hundred lines.
21:27:44 Quit przemhb (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
21:28:16[Saint]If I do the latter, I can avoid it completely, but anyone on - say 11.* or lower will wonder why it doesn't work.
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21:41:54wodzdamn, I again hit the problem of card not reporting being in TRAN state
21:51:55 Join rela [0] (~x@pdpc/supporter/active/rela)
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21:59:01 Quit y4n (Quit: Assumption is the mother of all fuckups)
21:59:01foolsh[Saint]: I vote for keeping the howto's current and updated, perhaps move the older info to a "support for legacy systems" page
22:00:38foolshOr better yet "unsupported legacy systems"
22:01:02[Saint]I have chosen to just completely ignore Windows and OSX.
22:01:15[Saint]Even though its possible to compile on both. Fuck that.
22:01:47[Saint]The Windows guide would be about a thousand lines explaining setting up Cygwin and Windows path fuckery.
22:02:18[Saint]...maybe I should just make a VM image for the Windows guys.
22:03:23foolshand osx could use it as well
22:03:48foolshthrow in rbutil and you can have it all
22:03:58[Saint]I initially wanted to make it largely distribution agnostic, but the required magic to detect the host system, or the added text to tell the user what to do in cases X, Y, Z, X1, Y1, Z1...etc, was driving me insane.
22:04:18[Saint]I ended up just saying "debianesque systems".
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22:12:09foolshcygwin is not colinux, right?
22:12:23[Saint]afaik, no.
22:12:36 Quit rela (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
22:12:37*foolsh wonders if colinux would be a more uniform
22:12:53[Saint]How so?
22:13:34foolshit's more self contained if I remember correctly, it keeps to itself indepedent of windows
22:14:11foolshwhere cygwin tried to bring the gnu tools into windows
22:14:42[Saint]Cygwin still attempts to be largely self contained.
22:14:50[Saint]But maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're meaning.
22:17:17foolshinstead of setting up cygwin, just having a colinux file system and a terminal to run commands, just seems like the shortest path
22:17:39foolshbut it's been so long ago for me
22:17:55foolshI can't go back you can't make me
22:18:04*foolsh has a flash back
22:18:30[Saint]yeah, that would be a LOT of work for Jow Windowsuser.
22:19:05[Saint]At least with Cygwin I can just say "install this, and put this conf file here" and it'll automagically pull in all required dependencies.
22:19:35[Saint]If the user needs to do it all manually, they may as well jump onto debian.
22:19:55*foolsh nods
22:19:56peturdon't know how they are now, but colinux was just as much a PITA as cygwin
22:20:19*[Saint] votes for avoiding the clusterfuck entirely. ;)
22:20:36[Saint]I'll just target Debian, and distribute a virtual machine image.
22:20:46peturyup... proper linux in a VM (or just boot linux)
22:20:56[Saint]well...s/debian/debianesque systems/
22:21:14[Saint]Perhaps I should explain what "debianesque" is to the user.
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22:51:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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23:25:07 Join nothingmuch [0] (0516844c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
23:25:48nothingmuchHi, i have a sansa clip+, just installed rockbox and I'm really happy with it... the only issue is it's crowded in the menus, and I was thinking of taking the time to build my own rockbox so it's how i like it
23:26:15nothingmuchbut before I invest in a dev environment, I wanted to ask if there's a reason that setting menu items (not actual settings, but locations in the settings menu) and database entries are not supported in shortcuts?
23:26:46[Franklin]nothingmuch: you can configure the main menu with the plugin apps/main_menu_config
23:27:04[Franklin](only in the dev builds, though)
23:27:13[Franklin]3.13 and before don't have the plugin
23:28:14nothingmuchis it documented apart from the .c file?
23:28:30[Franklin]it's quite self-explanatory :p
23:28:57[Saint]The manual documents editing the main menu manually, not sure about the plugin.
23:29:12[Saint]please note that this is limited to the main menu only.
23:29:29[Saint]If you want to configure submenus, you're pretty much fucked.
23:29:48[Saint]Its /possible/ to do so, but its a lot of work for incredibly little gain.
23:30:05[Saint]If you don't know what it does, just don't use it...pretty much.
23:30:24nothingmuchso from a bit more of a user story perspective
23:30:34[Saint]The defaults of Rockbox are supposed to be good enough so that Joe Average can simply pick it up and use it without changing anything.
23:30:44nothingmucheither I go full on OCD or I just keep it as is
23:30:57[Saint]That's pretty much it, yes.
23:31:03[Franklin]... or write useless game plugins for it :p
23:32:02nothingmuchso full on OCD is worth it to me even if i waste a good while, but i don't think my problem is with the menus (i actually like having it all there) but the limitations of the shortcut system
23:32:15nothingmuchi guess I should just code dive and see how that's implemented
23:32:26[Franklin]nothingmuch: what would you like to see in it, specifically?
23:32:43[Saint]The main issue is that it can't display anything with dynamic content.
23:33:00[Saint]so, settings values, etc.
23:33:08[Franklin]only files, I think
23:33:20[Saint]Files and toplevel menu paths.
23:33:32[Saint]and simple on/off settings, IIRC.
23:33:43nothingmuchi'd like to be able to jump to the compressor and crossfeed menus (not the actual sub settings, they are too fine grained), and into the database categories
23:33:45[Saint]anything with a dynamic value can't be in a shortcut.
23:34:10[Saint]The database...not sure. I think just no one cared too much about it.
23:34:17[Saint]No one's touched it in years.
23:34:23[Saint]Its nightmarish.
23:34:34[Franklin][Saint]: I never figured it out :p
23:34:36nothingmuchok then I think my time would probably be better spent organizing my music files =)
23:34:40[Franklin]what's the point of it?
23:34:42[Saint]Most of us use the file borwser.
23:34:58nothingmuchi rescued some files from my dad's iphone and they're a mess but that's an easy fix
23:35:26*[Saint] recommends Musicbrainz Picard
23:35:39[Saint]Just point that at it and go.
23:35:46nothingmuchand I guess I can just live with the compressor threshold in the shortcuts for now
23:35:53[Saint]Its quite possibly the best tagging software ever.
23:36:03nothingmuchyeah it's awesome =)
23:36:12nothingmuchok I guess you talked my down into a sane plan of action
23:36:29[Saint]The other issue with shortcuts is that they don't actually _enter_ the item you've created the shortcut to.
23:36:42[Saint]You have to actually "run" it or select it in many cases after the fact.
23:36:50[Saint]Somewhat annoying and largely defeats the purpose.
23:37:01[Franklin]it'd be nice if everything were a file in rockbox
23:37:19[Franklin]like making settings little plugins
23:37:41[Franklin]perhaps a little binary file that could be viewed by a "settings.rock" viewer
23:38:20[Franklin]and have them in the current menu structure, but under /.rockbox/settings/
23:38:23[Saint]That sounds as though it would make localization needlessly difficult.
23:38:36[Saint]and vastly increase binsize.
23:39:02[Franklin]no... it'd just need to store the title and options
23:39:21[Franklin]which could both be pointers to a localized string
23:39:29[Franklin](though I'm not sure that's how localization works)
23:40:42[Franklin]I think windows does something similar with .cpl files
23:42:20[Franklin][Saint]: and plus, compiling it into the rockbox image would use roughly the same amount of space
23:42:21nothingmuchare you talking about leaf level settings or the entire hierarchy?
23:42:32[Franklin]entire hierarchy
23:43:30[Franklin]in /.rockbox/settings, there'd be a "index.rst" file that listed the names of other files in that directory to "include"
23:43:59[Franklin]as well as directories under .rockbox/settings
23:44:15[Franklin]and in each of those dirs is another index.rst
23:44:32nothingmuchi keep wanting to ask questions but I realize I don't know the right questions to ask, need to read some code first =)
23:45:34nothingmuchanyway, thanks for your time guys, i'll probably pester you some more in the coming days as I get used to things, and if a sane way to extend the shortcut system can be found I'd be happy to throw some mythical man hours at it
23:46:16nothingmuchi'd really love it if i could just treat the shortcuts as my "main menu" and have the main menu really be the "full menu"
23:46:36nothingmuchbut that's just the control freak in me, i'm really elated by what rockbox gives me out of the box
23:46:57nothingmuchsee you!
23:47:12 Part nothingmuch
23:48:56[Franklin][Saint]: like this:
23:53:05[Franklin]the index file specification:
23:56:00[Franklin]ah... the only problem would be callbacks

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