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#rockbox log for 2016-02-12

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00:27:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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20:13:49cc_hello people _o/
20:14:34orpheuhi
20:18:20cc_long time rockbox user here, but now two rockbox devices I had are dead
20:18:49cc_I've got a new DAP, I'd like to flash it with rockbox
20:19:21cc_So I went to the website, and it looks like it's been a while since last release
20:19:30cc_3.13
20:19:46cc_almost 3 years ago
20:20:53cc_So I come here to enquire about it
20:21:02cc_How is the development going ?
20:21:37lebelliumyou can use the latest dev build
20:21:58lebelliumthey are as stable (if not more ) than release v3.13
20:22:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:22:05lebelliumas*
20:23:07cc_lebellium: The daily builds ?
20:23:12lebelliumyes
20:23:42cc_lebellium: the only issue I had with 3.13 was about opus. How is opus support now ?
20:24:27lebelliumI can't say for Opus particularly. Just check here: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/MajorChanges
20:26:15lebellium2014-07-13: Further optimize Opus
20:26:40cc_oh, improved battery life on fuzev2
20:26:45cc_great :D
20:28:07cc_lebellium: do you know why there hasn't been any release since then ? if dailies are stable, what is preventing a release now ?
20:29:00lebelliumprobably because most devs are too busy or no longer interested in Rockbox
20:29:33lebelliumshould rather ask a knowledgeable person like gevaerts
20:30:29cc_lebellium: really ? the project seems quite active
20:30:32cc_still
20:31:16cc_is the project slowing down overall ?
20:31:23lebelliumfor sure
20:31:32lebelliumpamaury keeps the illusion it's still alive :D
20:32:03pamauryyeah we should do a release :-s
20:32:57cc_I hope the project still goes on because there are some interesting ports in the todo list
20:33:12cc_notably the Zen :p
20:33:23pamaurythe Zen ?
20:33:42cc_pamaury: I like the Creative Zen
20:34:04lebelliumthe original from 2007?
20:34:04cc_simple, lightweight, decent amount of buttons, SD card slot
20:34:20pamauryah yeah, it's quite an old player though
20:35:06cc_I don't really look at the date of release
20:35:44pamaurythe major problem is that you can't buy new ones and the batteries are slowly dying
20:36:02pamauryalso the port has its share of bugs
20:36:12cc_I remember I had one and the only thing it lacked was a decent firmware
20:36:59cc_@all : what is your favorite rockbox device ?
20:37:55lebelliumdon't come uo with this debate! [Saint] will try again to claim the iPod are the best... \o/
20:37:58lebelliumup*
20:38:27cc_lebellium: lol I can't stand iThings :p
20:39:00lebelliumClip+ and Zip are probably among the most popular Rockbox targets
20:39:32cc_my personal preference goes for devices with memory expansion and lots of hardware buttons
20:40:15cc_When my Fuze v2 dies I'm going to try the HiFiThings maybe
20:40:27lebelliumpamaury: do you have time to commit the volume fix this weekend?
20:40:49pamaurylebellium: yeah I will to it when I'm back home tonight, I'm sorry I was super busy this week
20:40:50cc_(if I can't find a Zen)
20:41:12*pamaury goes back home
20:41:26cc_oh I still have a question
20:41:47cc_do you plan to keep the policy of not supporting other fs than FAT ?
20:43:05pamauryI guess if someone did all the work to support another fs, with the possibility to disable it, it would probably not have a very strong opposition, but that's a lot of work. which FS are you thinking about ?
20:44:57cc_pamaury: no particular one, but I wonder what would happen if MS starts patent trolling on FAT
20:45:36pamauryI really doubt they will, the same cannot be said about exFAT though
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20:51:36cc_anyone using a Sansa e200 Series here ?
20:54:39lebelliumusing, no
20:54:46lebelliumbut I have one :)
20:55:34cc_lebellium: have you ever noticed a noise in your earplugs when loading a song before the player started to play it ?
20:55:52cc_like a "bzzzz" noise
20:56:28cc_I don't know if it's firmware or hardware-related
20:56:30lebelliumI don't remember if it's on this sansa or another one, but I already heard this kind of sound
20:56:54lebelliumI could check but I'd probably have to charge the battery first
20:58:03cc_lebellium: on my e250 it was systematic, a bzzz noise when the player was loading the song, before it started and it generally continued a bit at the beginning of the song
20:58:04lebelliumoh! It still has 80% battery although I haven't charged it for months!
20:59:04cc_like if taking data from the microSD and putting it into ram was generating some noise in the jack output
20:59:33cc_maybe that's an inaccurate interpretation but that's how it sounded /o\
21:00
21:00:06lebelliumcc_: I confirm it's plenty of noise. I use Westone UM3x which are quite sensitive
21:01:07lebelliumwhoauh, it's worse than a 56k modem
21:01:37cc_lebellium: is it a hardware or a software problem ?
21:02:00lebelliumI'm not a dev but sounds like a hardware issue to me
21:03:04lebelliumthat's the problem with some old models
21:03:15lebelliumcrappy output and CPU noise
21:04:26cc_lebellium: yeah :/
21:05:20cc_lebellium: hey those earplug look very similar to mine :D
21:05:47cc_i've got some shure se215
21:07:32cc_lebellium: do you think this problem could still be bypassed with a software hack ?
21:09:33lebelliumI don't think so. If something could be done, if would probably already have been done before. But I let the final word to the devs here
21:09:41lebelliumit*
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21:13:29Mihailoriginal firmware on e200 have same issue?
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21:14:08cc_Mihail: I don't remember, I don't even know if I have tested the original firmware on this model before flashing it :/
21:15:37cc_like : first boot and then "no need to test, I know it's crap, let's flash rockbox *now*"
21:15:54lebelliumMihail: I just checked with the OF. it's the same...
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21:19:39Mihailprobably bypassing mixer stage (as I do for AMSv2) can help, but I no sure if it possible for e200
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21:21:59pamaurymany devices don't have mixer stage actually if they use an internal dac, I don't rememer what the e200 uses
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21:25:29pamaurye200 uses PP which only has input audio mixer
21:31:38MihailI check datasheet for AS3514 and AS3525 - both have mixer stage, but bypass impossible on it :(
21:34:41pamauryindeed, but I would say this: if you are at the point where mixer bypass reduces noise, your player is already pretty good, because lots of player suffer from other digital noises
21:38:24Mihailprobably you right, but mixer have many analog inputs and possibly one from it have receive EMI
21:40:53pamaurythat's a good point, but most mixers allow you to mute inputs
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21:58:43Mihailwhy we enable both line out and headphone for e200? It have two jack for output?
21:59:39lebelliumonly on jack
21:59:47lebelliumbut it has line-out through the pin port
21:59:52lebelliumone*
22:00
22:04:40 Quit FSanches (Quit: Leaving.)
22:07:14pamaurylebellium: can you check g#1255 just to make sure it fixes both issues before I commit ?
22:07:16fs-bluebot_Gerrit review #1255 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/1255 : as3514: fix bug in volume management on AS3543 targets which are not AS3525v2 by Amaury Pouly
22:07:49lebelliumsure
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22:26:17MightyBoraHey guys, it's my first time here, I was given a free iPod 6.5g with a broken screen. Now after repairing the screen, it looks like the previous user had installed Rockbox on this. The 'problem' is that it is an old version of Rockbox (644b83e - 120701) and of emCORE (v0.2.3 r859). The old version of emCORE means that there is nothing left of the original firmware.
22:27:45MightyBoraI wasn't expecting to have Rockbox on there and I'm not sure I need it. I read on the forum that there is a dual boot method in development. I might want to try that. But not too sure which step I should take first. Would it be easier to upgrade emCORE or Rockbox. Or would it be easier to restore the original apple firmware? (if possible?!)
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22:30:30MightyBoraOf course, not having done the initial install of Rockbox put me in some disadvantage as I am pretty much a noob and never worked with Rockbox before
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22:44:40lebelliumpamaury: I confirm it fixes both issues. There is still a minor "plop" issue at startup and between -40dB to -41dB which wasn't there before g#1089 was commited but we can keep that for later :)
22:44:42fs-bluebot_Gerrit review #1089 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/1089 : Bypass the AS3543 audio mixer at higher volumes. by Mihail Zenkov
22:45:54pamauryI guess it's because of the mixer switching
22:47:05lebelliumswitching between what?
22:48:32pamauryon and off
22:48:50pamaurythe code disables the mixer above -40dB to reduce noise
22:48:56lebelliumaaaah
22:49:09pamauryit's not surprising you can hear it
22:49:29pamaurymaybe this can be fixed if the chip has a zero-cross feature
22:52:06pamauryhum, maybe it's just because of the order in which things are written
22:53:37pamaurylebellium: could you try another patch for me, see if this pop at -40dB disappears ?
22:53:46lebelliumsure
22:55:33lebelliumhttp://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,26357.15.html
22:55:39lebelliumdon't know if that helps
22:56:42pamaurylebellium: g#1255 (I pushed another version)
22:56:43fs-bluebot_Gerrit review #1255 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/1255 : as3514: fix bug in volume management on AS3543 targets which are not AS3525v2 by Amaury Pouly
23:00
23:02:45MightyBoraI'm about to log off. I've posted my question above in the Installation / Removal -> Rockbox Utility subforum, if someone wants to take a look. (Post still waiting for approval for the moment though)
23:02:49MightyBoraBye!
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23:05:17lebelliumpamaury: nope, it doesn't help
23:06:18Mihailbut it help for clip zip
23:06:38lebelliumthere was a plop on clip zip?
23:06:45lebelliumnever noticed that
23:07:54pamauryMihail: you just tested this patch ?
23:08:06pamaurydamn, I just revert it on gerrit ^^
23:08:21lebelliumoh
23:08:28lebelliumthere is the same plop on clip zip
23:08:33lebelliummy mistake
23:08:35Mihailyes, plop mostly gone
23:08:42pamauryit should exists on the zip, it's the same code
23:08:49pamauryok so it was a good idea
23:09:10lebelliumrevert back again, I'll try it on Clip Zip :D
23:09:20pamauryhave you tried both direction (-40->-41 and -41->-40) ?
23:09:22pamaurysure, wait a sec
23:09:48pamaurydone: g#1255
23:09:49fs-bluebot_Gerrit review #1255 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/1255 : as3514: fix bug in volume management on AS3543 targets which are not AS3525v2 by Amaury Pouly
23:10:15pamauryMihail: do you know what AUDIOSET1_DAC_GAIN_on does ?
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23:13:03pamauryapparently there is a "dac gain stage" but the datasheet doesn't say much and the code sometimes sets it on and off
23:13:17MihailAS3543 have two analog gain in dac path
23:13:29Mihailone before mixer
23:14:02Mihailwe disable it when we don't use mixer
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23:14:59pamauryhum, you think AUDIOSET1_DAC_GAIN_on disable the volume control on the DAC->mixer path ? Why would such a bit exists ?
23:15:42pamauryoh no I see, AUDIOSET1_DAC_GAIN_on just enables the DAC input of the mixer
23:15:57pamauryI think
23:16:03Mihaillook at four page in datasheet to point n19/n22
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23:16:44pamauryI'm looking at it and I don't see the same thing as you apparently :)
23:17:50Mihailwe have mute block > volume control > mixer > limiter
23:18:10pamauryyes
23:18:43MihailI think AUDIOSET1_DAC_GAIN_on disable volume control block
23:19:48pamauryok, let's try something
23:20:25pamaurylebellium: Mihail: can you try the new patch at g#1255 ?
23:20:26fs-bluebot_Gerrit review #1255 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/1255 : as3514: fix bug in volume management on AS3543 targets which are not AS3525v2 by Amaury Pouly
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23:23:42pamauryI'm not sure it will be enough, we might to further shuffle things around more
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23:32:13Mihailtest again set 6 and again set 5 - both still have problem, it dependent on testing material, probably zero cross problem as you mention
23:34:00pamauryso you can still hear a very small pop ?
23:34:07pamauryI still have a last idea, give me 5min
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23:37:04Mihailit sound like very short sound breakup/skip
23:38:05pamaurydoes it happen when switch from -40dB to -41dB or from -41dB to -40dB ?
23:38:43lebelliumI confirm sets 5 and 6 don't fix the issue on YP-R0 and Clip Zip.
23:38:48lebelliumboth directions
23:38:55lebellium40 to 41 and 41 to 40
23:39:05lebelliumnot the same sound
23:39:10lebelliumit can be a 2 sounds music
23:39:12lebellium:D
23:39:48 Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org)
23:40:05pamauryok give me 5min to come up with a new patch, I need to think
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23:44:38lebelliumhum USB is still crapy on Clip Zip
23:44:46lebelliumI'm obliged to use the OF to connect :(
23:45:06 Quit alexweissman (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
23:45:22pamauryMihail: lebellium: try new version
23:46:35lebelliumok
23:50:53 Quit alexweis_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
23:51:10MihailI record it (set 5) with 200hz test signal: http://knk.square7.ch/plop.flac
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23:51:58lebelliumSet 7 doesn't help on R0
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23:53:26pamauryhum, maybe nothing can be done and the mux switch makes noise
23:54:18pamauryat least patches 5 and 6 are better than 4 right ? You said it helped on the Zip ?
23:55:06lebelliumPatch 5 doesn't help compared to no patch on Clip Zip
23:56:17Mihailwait few minutes, I try record it and compare

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