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#rockbox log for 2016-07-28

00:05:08 Quit edhelas (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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06:10:22 Join ClickCLK [0] (54168e6d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
06:11:31ClickCLKIt says on rockbox wiki that it's best to ask questions in this IRC channel about unbricking sansa clip+
06:12:03ClickCLKcan somebody help me?
06:12:57 Quit JdGordon (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
06:13:41[Saint]ClickCLK: what behavior are you seeing exactly?
06:14:40ClickCLKFirmware not booting
06:14:50ClickCLKthere are 3 types of symptoms
06:15:06ClickCLK1) it shows sansa logo, and on boot anymation it hangs
06:15:32ClickCLK2) it shows rockbox logo, and when connected to usb shows "usb bootloader mode"
06:15:47ClickCLK3) shows message "loading firmware"
06:16:42ClickCLKI don't know how it switches to this mode, but it can boot to any of those after I plug in usb cable
06:16:53ClickCLKI am using win7x64
06:18:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:18:50ClickCLKIn device manager I am seeing two usb mass storage device, but one of them shows error 10
06:19:24ClickCLKThis player was given to me by a friend, so I'm not exactly sure what he did to it
06:20:19ClickCLKI tried bridging recovery pads on board, now both mass storage devices in device manager are without error
06:21:30ClickCLKin diskpart utility I'm seeing a drive, it's 7580mb
06:22:04ClickCLKHow can I write Original Firmware onto this drive using windows?
06:22:18ClickCLKOr is it only possible in linux?
06:25:45[Saint]Well, it needs a sane utility that can write at block level to the device, which windows doesn't really have (their dd clone is nightmarish), but doing so wouldn't actually do you any good here.
06:26:27ClickCLKDead flash chip?
06:26:28[Saint]The volume size we'd be looking for to /maybe/ facilitate a successful recovery in this fashion is ~900Mb or so.
06:27:00ClickCLKmaybe I did something wrong?
06:27:10[Saint]No, it seems as though at least some of it is very much alive. Normally in the case where I'd expect recovery impossible it shows as a $MB volume.
06:27:59[Saint]Give it a few attempts, I mean - this isn't a science. no one really knows why this method does or doesn't work.
06:28:30[Saint]It is very firmly in the realms of magic and luck with some actual science and engineering scattered in there with what we know.
06:28:57ClickCLKok, I'll try several times and reply
06:29:15ClickCLKWhich way is better, with or without battery
06:29:44[Saint]without, always. there's no better or worse there, that's an absolute.
06:30:14ClickCLKok, didn't see it mentioned on wiki
06:30:32[Saint]it mentions it explicitly.
06:31:24[Saint]we need to guarantee the device is off and in a state like this it can be near impossible to do so without removing the batteyr.
06:32:03ClickCLKok, I desoldered the battery
06:32:07[Saint]hmmm, looking at the text now I guess I could make that clearer.
06:33:22[Saint]hmmm, i should also sanitize those example dd commands so someone doesn't copy them blink and fry a harddrive. :-S
06:35:18ClickCLKI usually just short b+ and gnd pins for a moment, I know this isn't the safest way, but guaranteed to turn off device, and nothing ever was broken using this method
06:38:55ClickCLKare recovery pins need to be shortened when i try to detect drive or they need to be shortened only when connecting player to pc?
06:39:03 Quit WakiMiko (Max SendQ exceeded)
06:39:24[Saint]the latter.
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06:47:12ClickCLKok, so every time I use "list disk" command in diskpart utility there is a long wait, and then it shows 7580mb drive
06:47:21ClickCLKtryed 5 times
06:48:59ClickCLKmaybe it's possible to put original firmware file on this drive and just boot into original firmware and it will flash itself?
06:49:22ClickCLKalso, this drive is unallocated
06:49:29ClickCLKwith no fs
06:51:05ClickCLKIs it safe to format this drive or it will permanently brick the player?
06:54:58[Saint]as above, writing firmware to that location won't actually achieve anything.
06:55:23[Saint]it would be difficult to entirely exclude windows getting in the way of this entirely.
06:55:59[Saint]I don't think I can recall a successful recovery via windows, but that's mainly due to the lack of software to handle low level writes in a sane way.
06:57:52ClickCLKcan i use ubuntu 14 live cd to do this?
06:59:10[Saint]I can't say windows is or isn;t the problem but it would be useful to know we tried.
06:59:27[Saint]and honestly, windows dd is really nigtmarishly shitty and difficult to use.
07:00:00ClickCLKok, I'll disconect now and reboot to ubuntu, i'll be back
07:00:05 Quit ClickCLK ()
07:09:10 Join ClickCLK [0] (54168e6d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
07:09:41ClickCLKok, I'm on ubuntu now
07:13:33ClickCLKHow can I understand when device is connected? There isn't any sound like on windows when usb device is connected...
07:16:59ClickCLKwhen I enter "sudo fdisk -l" it shows my hdd and then freezes when player is connected
07:17:17ClickCLKubuntu@ubuntu:~$ sudo fdisk -l Disk /dev/sda: 320.1 GB, 320071851520 bytes 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 38913 cylinders, total 625140335 sectors Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disk identifier: 0x376f5ff7 Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System /dev/sda1 * 2048 206847 102400 7
07:18:17ClickCLKit immediately unfreeze when I disconect the player
07:19:54ClickCLKok, it unfreezed without disconnecting the player, but I can't see it listed
07:20:08ClickCLKmaybe there is some driver I need?
07:23:17ClickCLKok, I got a result
07:23:27ClickCLKDisk /dev/sdf: 7948 MB, 7948206080 bytes
07:23:34ClickCLK245 heads, 62 sectors/track, 1021 cylinders, total 15523840 sectors
07:23:42ClickCLKUnits = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
07:23:49ClickCLKSector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
07:23:55ClickCLKI/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
07:24:01ClickCLKDisk identifier: 0xffffffff
07:24:07ClickCLKDisk /dev/sdf doesn't contain a valid partition table
07:24:34ClickCLKit's still 7948mb :-(
07:31:07 Quit Bray90820 ()
07:34:24ClickCLKif I understand correctly, 7948mb is a whole flash size
07:34:52ClickCLKmaybe it's possible to flash fullflash dumped from another player?
07:43:24ClickCLKI tried to backup this partition, entered sudo dd if=/dev/sdf of=orig_image.bin bs=512
07:43:42ClickCLKit resulted in error
07:43:52ClickCLKdd: error reading ‘/dev/sdf’: Input/output error
07:44:00ClickCLK16352+0 records in
07:44:08ClickCLK16352+0 records out
07:44:33ClickCLK8372224 bytes (8.4 MB) copied, 41.8045 s, 200 kB/s
07:44:46ClickCLKhope this info can help
07:45:03 Quit athidhep (Quit: athidhep)
08:00:51ClickCLK[Saint], are you still there?
08:06:24ClickCLKI need to get back to work for now, but I'll write here again later
08:06:30ClickCLKthanks for the help
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12:22:00wodzpamaury: Did you contact Vortex about his rockbox work (github)?
12:22:26pamauryyes, I mean that was a few months ago, I don't knw if made further changes recently
12:22:53wodzpamaury: at least he did iHIFI 770,770C and 800 ports
12:23:04wodzpamaury: this are rk27xx targets
12:23:15pamauryyeah I saw that but I don't have either of those devices and I have no feedback from anyone
12:23:34pamauryit would be interesting to merge it but at least someone should confirm that it works :D
12:24:13wodzpamaury: HeadFi post should do the trick :-)
12:24:42pamauryyeah good point (also those are really expensive)
12:24:52wodzpamaury: Is he willing to adhere to real name policy we have?
12:25:08pamauryDo you want to take care of it ? I don't even know if he released any installation instructions
12:25:26wodzpamaury: I emailed him and waiting for response
12:25:33pamaurywodz: good question, I forgot to ask. He told he didn't want to maintain it or be part of the community
12:26:19wodzpamaury: Anyway I can't believe someone design really expensive DAP around rk27xx this days. Officially you cannot buy this SoC even
12:26:45pamauryI guess china has a lot of those in stock
12:27:33wodzAFAIK rockchip says to get new design if you ask them
12:28:25wodzpamaury: What do we do in situation when contributor doesn't want to adhere to real name policy?
12:29:10pamaurymy short answer would be that you just forget about the port, since you don't have the device and can't possibly write this code on your own ?
12:31:14wodzpamaury: That is the 'clean' solution BUT I think it will be loss for community
12:32:07pamaurylet's assume he agrees to the name policy :)
12:32:32pamauryor convince to use a fake real name but pretend we don't know about it ? ^^
12:34:51pamauryor agree to forget about the policiy for this particular case ? but that will meet some opposition I think
12:35:45wodzpamaury: How exactly is XDuoo X3 port crafted? Why you think it is not possible to merge it in current shape?
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12:38:17pamauryfirst it kind-of-reuses parts of jz4740 but that port was already a mess so I don't like it at all. Also the port has very little documentation and uses the jz headers. And the code is full of copy paste from various sources (random linux ports for jz or code released by jz), there is even dead code.
12:39:52wodzpamaury: What about drivers part, keymap etc.? Reimplementing SoC support is relatively simple (but time consuming)
12:40:38pamaurymy hope is that most drivers will require little modification, so I am mostly reimplementing the soc part, will do the fiio x1 port, and then merge the x3 drivers.
12:41:03pamauryalso other things are slightly annoying, like lot of code duplication for dma
12:41:55pamaurymy goal is to share as much code as possible between the two targets
12:42:39pamauryat the same time I do other things like understanding the usb controller (which people reported as broken in his port anyway)
12:43:05wodzusb is fun :-)
12:43:18pamaurythis controller is horrible
12:43:50pamauryat the pio version of it. Maybe the dma one is a bit better
12:43:51wodzthe concept is sound BUT hw implementations are disastrous
12:45:10pamaurywhat is most annyoing is that controller always trying to be too smart for small thing. Like this one tries to be smart by doing automatically the acknowledge stage. This is a nightmare because because everything is super low-level but then you need tricks to handle this automatic stage gracefully
12:46:04pamauryit seems to have been written by someone who thinks all usb requests are successful !
12:46:32wodzaren't they :P
12:47:08wodzjust like rk27xx where usb dma engine assumes noone will touch memory during operation :-)
12:57:15pamaurybut I have hopes for this ingenic controller, I have something that works almost correctly
12:58:10pamauryalso the datasheet is not super precise, even the jz4740 that contains the full documentation, on some details
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14:08:40wodzpamaury: I've got reply from Vortex. He is not going to take much effort to contribute BUT he is not agains real name policy. So basically we can take his code and merge IF we will have confirmation it works.
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14:23:25pamaurywodz: ok that's good
14:23:38pamauryso know you need to find people who have those ihifi devices
14:25:21ClickCLKHello. On rockbox wiki it says to ask on this channel about ams sansa recovery. Are there anyone who can help me with this kind of question?
14:28:00pamauryClickCLK: some people here know about this stuff. First you should explain your problem, mention which device it is and what happened
14:29:09ClickCLKok. I talked today with [saint] about this problem, here is a quick description of current situation:
14:30:48ClickCLKsansa clip+, got it from friend. He says that something went wrong on installing rockbox. The symptomps are as follows:
14:31:43ClickCLKon power on it boots to 1) original firmware - shows sansa logo and freezes on boot animation
14:32:29ClickCLK2) shows rockbox logo and if connected to usb shows "usb bootloader mode"
14:32:51ClickCLK3) shows message "loading firmware"
14:34:21ClickCLKit boots to these modes randomly, sometimes to one, sometimes to another
14:34:30ClickCLKI use win7x64
14:34:56ClickCLKon power on
14:35:02ClickCLKsometimes to one mode
14:35:07ClickCLKsometimes to another
14:35:08gevaertsThat leads me to believe that the "something" that went wrong while installing rockbox was dropping the device and stepping on it
14:35:42ClickCLKwhen I desoldered battery and inserted cable it only boots to sansa logo and freezes on animation
14:36:12wodzsounds like broken key (which one booted OF?)
14:36:35*gevaerts nods
14:36:42ClickCLKin device manager, when connected to usb and booted to rockbox "usb bootloader mode" , two mass storage devices appear, one with error 10
14:37:09gevaertsOne would be the internal storage, the other the card slot
14:37:19gevaertsWell, no, wait
14:37:19ClickCLKyeah, I thought so too
14:37:34gevaertsTwo mass storage devices, or one mass storage device with two "disks"?
14:37:43ClickCLKtwo devices
14:38:13ClickCLKok, so I tried to boot to recovery mode, shorting pins on board
14:38:31gevaertswodz: left, according to the manual
14:38:38ClickCLKit connects to usb, shows two mass storage devices, both without errors
14:39:25gevaertsHow big are those devices?
14:41:09ClickCLKin windows diskpart utility, using "list disk" command, it freezes, sometimes for a long time, sometimes for short, and then shows the drive with size of approximately 8gb, like 7485mb or something
14:42:40ClickCLKtried reconnecting it many times, always this size. I even tryed it on ubuntu with fdsik -l command, still this size
14:43:13gevaerts8gb sounds plausible at least
14:43:23ClickCLK[saint] here told me, that it isn't possible to do anything with partition of this size, but
14:43:51gevaertsGive me a minute to read the log for that
14:44:21ClickCLKI tried to dump this partition, and after 8,4mb (if i'm not mistaken) it shows error and stops operation
14:44:36ClickCLKbut the first 8.4 mb is saved to file
14:46:06*gevaerts would like to look at the first few kilobytes of that file
14:46:39gevaertsCan you upload the file somewhere?
14:46:44ClickCLKI compared it with original firmware from sandisk site and there are many mismatches, but some parts have really long chunks of code which matches bite to bite
14:47:42wodzflash controllers usually correct bit errors in hardware
14:48:03ClickCLKhere it is
14:48:20ClickCLKby matching, I mean in exactly same adresse
14:48:26gevaertsIf the total size is shown as 8GB, I'd expect it to be in a fairly normal (not entirely normal, of course) mode, not recovery. That assumes it's an 8GB device of course...
14:50:36gevaertsok, so that does look like firmware, which I wouldn't expect in this case...
14:51:07ClickCLKi shorted pins that showed on photo on wiki, device is without battery, it connects as two mass storage devices when pins are shortened, and shows sansa logo when not, so I assume it is recovery
14:51:07*gevaerts hopes wodz or pamaury are reading and can jump in if he says something wrong. These things are tricky and delicate...
14:51:24*pamaury doesn't know much about ams
14:52:35pamauryiirc when you short the pins it should appear as a "small" device, a few hundreds MB ?
14:52:57ClickCLK[saint] here said, that it must be around 1gb
14:53:22gevaertsIf you see an 8GB device, I expect either a filesystem or a partition table on there. As far as I've always understood, the mode that allows writing firmware shows one 1GB disk (more or less). Other modes can be 4MB or 32MB, but those seem to fairly strongly indicate that the device is lost
14:53:25ClickCLKbut i tried many times both on windows and ubuntu, but it always shows as this size
14:54:34gevaertsBased on what you've said so far I'd say a *possible* scenario is that (a) there's something wrong with the hardware (sometimes OF and sometimes rockbox bootloader randomly indicates that to me)
14:54:35ClickCLKalso, in widows it shows as unallocated
14:55:02ClickCLKI can reball cpu if needed
14:55:08gevaertsand (b) an attempt at recovery was made, writing firmware to the device when it was *not* in recovery mode
14:56:12gevaertsIf it were only (b) I'd format the thing as FAT32 and hope for the best, but if dumping the device has errors I have my doubts
14:56:53ClickCLKI have this doubts too
14:58:56ClickCLKis it possible to completely brick the device if I try to write original firmware to this drive using dd?
14:59:00ClickCLKcan this help?
15:00:02wodzClickCLK: To be fair internal working of recovery mode was never fully understood.
15:00:39gevaertsThe thing is, I don't believe it's in that sort of recovery mode
15:00:45wodzand as gevaerts told already I'd expect partition table or fs on 8gig device NOT raw firmware
15:01:53gevaertsBased on the symptoms I suspect hardware issues, but what I personally would do if it were my device is to just try to format the 8GB disk as FAT32 without a partition table
15:03:09*wodz second this
15:03:54gevaertsI have no idea what those hardware issues might be. If you suspect cracked solder and can do something about that, it might be worth trying. I mean, there's not much else to try :)
15:03:58ClickCLKI somewhat scared to format, because first 8.9 mb of this disk is definetly firmware
15:05:01gevaertsI can see that
15:06:19gevaertsCan you get it to rockbox bootloader USB mode and try to copy from there? I'm much more confident about that doing what we expect
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15:09:06ClickCLKok, i'll try, but in device manager it show error 10 on mass storage device, and as far as I remember it was't visible in diskpart
15:14:12ClickCLKwhich button boots to rockbox?
15:14:39ClickCLKoh, sorry
15:14:46ClickCLKi'm in bl usb mode
15:15:47ClickCLKdrive isn't visible in diskpart
15:15:57ClickCLKerror 10 in device manager
15:19:44gevaertsWell, as I said if it were my device I'd consider it probably lost, so getting anything more out of it would be a bonus, so I'd try formatting. I'm not going as far as saying that's the right decision...
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15:20:35ClickCLKI have tow options now
15:20:49ClickCLKresolder cpu
15:21:18 Join nlogex [0] (
15:21:22ClickCLKor format to fat32 (and put original firmware on this partition, I think)
15:21:34ClickCLKwhat to try first?
15:23:32ClickCLKI just remembered, that friend, who gave me this player said, that he indeed tryed to recover it using linux, and sayed that something was even written, but that didn't change anything
15:24:50wodzhah, that makes sense. He dd firmware when device was NOT in recovery mode
15:25:08wodzClickCLK: Try to format AND do not put firmware there
15:25:10gevaertsRight, that makes it more likely that our thinking is correct
15:25:39gevaertsI don't think formatting it can make things worse, so I'd try that first
15:25:53gevaertsResoldering CPUs sounds like something that can go wrong :)
15:26:54ClickCLKok, but I have experience in soldering bga chips
15:28:24wodzsure, but I doubt cpu is the cause of the problems
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15:53:22ClickCLKsorry for long wait
15:53:45ClickCLKit seems that I cannot format this drive under windows
15:54:30ClickCLKusing format utility it says "error calling function IOCTL"
15:54:58ClickCLKHow to format drive using ubuntu?
15:55:09ClickCLKI don't have much linux experience
15:55:13gevaertssudo mkfs.vfat /dev/sdsomething
15:55:41gevaertsMake sure you have the "something" right. You don't want to format the wrong disk...
15:56:30ClickCLKYeah, I do know about that
16:09:11ClickCLKit says: "Device partition expected, not making filesystem on entire device '/dev/sdb' (use -I to override)"
16:09:15ClickCLKoverride it?
16:09:54gevaertsSansas usually don't do partitions
16:11:38ClickCLKit displayed version of mkfs.fat utility and now I'm waiting...
16:12:01ClickCLKit ended with error: filed whilst writing fat
16:12:24gevaertsDoes dmesg show an error?
16:12:36ClickCLKhow to look for it?
16:13:20gevaertsrun "dmesg" and see what it says at or near the end
16:15:23 Quit NathanVF (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
16:16:25ClickCLKmany errors "Buffer I/O error on dev sdb, logical block * lost async page write" and the last message is "usb 2-2: device descriptor read/64, error -110"
16:16:31ClickCLKan many more errors
16:18:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:21:31 Quit xorly (Quit: I quit, that is all)
16:21:40 Join xorly [0] (
16:23:29*gevaerts thinks the flash is shot
16:25:44ClickCLKSo, gevaerts, you think that flash chip is dead, right?
16:26:31ClickCLKcan it be because of bad solder? If yes, I can resolder it.
16:27:05gevaertsI don't know, really
16:27:29ClickCLKok, so I'll resolder flash chip now and try again
16:27:32ClickCLKbe right back
16:28:53 Join alexweissman [0] (
16:33:32 Quit alexweissman (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
16:40:12ClickCLKdone. Let's see if it helped...
16:40:55 Join soap [0] (~soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
16:42:02 Join link16hit [0] (18353236@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
16:43:49link16hitHello! I've tried a .vgm (genesis music) and it always stop after 2-3 sec and put back the music.
16:44:18 Join JordiGH [0] (~jordi@octave/developer/JordiGH)
16:44:23JordiGHJust got a Sansa Clip Zip.
16:44:35JordiGHThe pinnacle of music player evolution, if you ask me.
16:44:44JordiGHIt's gorgeous and it runs Rockbox.
16:44:53JordiGHI want to have it forever.
16:45:05link16hitthat's so little!
16:45:21 Join alexweissman [0] (
16:46:25JordiGHWhat's little?
16:47:02link16hityour Sansa Clip Zip...I always got big mp3, but for a cheap price
16:47:14link16hitmusic player*
16:47:22JordiGHI like it little.
16:48:39JordiGHI'm excited to see how Doom runs on this thing. The colour screen should help.
16:49:19link16hitI've read of it but never tried (even thought I installed Rockbox 1 months ago0
16:49:50gevaertsJordiGH: doom on a clip zip? You're mad!
16:50:30link16hitahaha nah I got a Ipod video 5th gen I think, yeah the screen will be too small?
16:52:15link16hitwow, I'm dead (trying freedom)
16:53:23 Quit petur (Quit: Connection reset by beer)
16:55:36JordiGHlink16hit: What do you run Rockbox on?
16:56:37JordiGHI feel like I should stock up on clip zips
16:56:55gevaertsNot a bad plan if you can
16:57:06gevaertsThey're getting rare, and they're not *that* sturdy
16:58:36JordiGHI should get a rubber cover too.
17:01:29link16hitumm, Ipod video 5th gen (rockbox 3.13)
17:03:18JordiGHAlso getting hard to find, I bet.
17:04:14 Join JdGordon [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
17:06:56 Quit JdGordon_ (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
17:11:48ClickCLKOk, the result is
17:12:06ClickCLKresoldered flash - same results
17:12:17ClickCLKreflowed CPU - still same results
17:12:25ClickCLKflash is dead :(((
17:12:53link16hitwhat happen?
17:13:05 Join Jinx [0] (Dojo@unaffiliated/jinx)
17:13:43ClickCLKgevaerts , is it possible to change flash chip to a new one, and the reflash it using recovery, or it will not boot?
17:14:11ClickCLKlink16hit, long story, bricked sansa clip+, dead flash chip
17:16:00JordiGHThose are getting rare.
17:16:02JordiGHDon't hurt them!
17:16:07gevaertsClickCLK: I don't think I've ever heard of anyone trying that
17:19:58link16hitone of the codecs, VGM (genesis music), isn't in the web page sound codecs but Rockbox can read it (and play it), but always stop for 2-3 second, any idea?
17:22:38duo8time to update rockbox
17:23:21link16hit^^ I've the 3.13 version =S
17:23:40ClickCLKgevaerts, ok. Huge thanks for your help, and to anyone else who also tried to help. Much appreciated. If I'll ever try to swap flash chip, I'll will write in this channel.
17:23:54ClickCLKthanks again, to all of you
17:24:25JordiGHUpdate rockbox? There hasn't been a release in yearr.
17:26:33link16hitNeed to go! See ya!
17:26:37 Quit link16hit (Quit: Page closed)
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17:39:22 Join krabador [0] (~krabador@unaffiliated/krabador)
17:40:25 Part krabador
17:42:00duo8update to the latest dev release
17:42:26duo8this one still crashes so maybe a new one might have fixed some bugs
17:42:59duo8last time i updated, i don't get track skipping nearly as often anymore, crashes less too
17:43:09duo8still lags tho
17:50:41 Join krnlyng [0] (
17:58:08 Quit maruk (Quit: Leaving.)
18:02:44 Quit elensil (Quit: Leaving.)
18:18:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:26:08 Quit wodz (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
18:34:29 Quit ClickCLK (Quit: Page closed)
18:36:32 Quit nlogex (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
19:02:53 Join JdGordon_ [0] (~jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
19:05:53 Quit JdGordon (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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19:31:29 Join pamaury [0] (~pamaury@rockbox/developer/pamaury)
19:33:13JordiGHTime to install Rockbox on my new clip zip! Woo!
19:43:28 Quit Boltermor (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
19:44:19 Join lebellium [0] (
19:47:57 Join Boltermor [0] (
19:52:44JordiGHHee, it is done! And I've survived the longest ever in a Rockdoom game. ^.^
19:53:00JordiGHNormally I can't even kill two dudes with the Clip+ because it uses dithering to represent greyscale.
19:56:45 Join girafe [0] (
20:02:38JordiGHMy god, what a thing of beauty.
20:02:44JordiGHI wish I had known about Rockbox 10 years ago.
20:18:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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20:39:41 Join Rower [0] (
21:14:44 Join NathanV [0] (68dc3297@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
21:26:28 Quit Boltermor (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
21:58:16[Saint]JordiGH: think that's nice, ...should get an iPod Classic.
21:59:32[Saint]I mean the Clip Zip is nice hardware, but Rockbox is another kinda another creature entirely on high-RAM large-screen devices.
22:00:51[Saint]Lots of people hate the HDD players, and Apple in general, and I kinda get why - but we turn them into something else entirely.
22:02:26JordiGHWhat do you mean? Rockbox is fundamentally different between iPods and Clips?
22:09:05[Saint]In a few ways, yes. The possibilities open up quite a bit wider with significantly more RAM and screen size to play with.
22:10:46[Saint]Your listening habits can make or break getting a HDD based player, though.
22:11:43[Saint]If you're the type that's easily dissatisfied and constantly skipping through your collection trying to find something interesting to listen to, it can work out to be wildly less efficient instead of only marginally less so.
22:12:04[Saint]Spinning up the HDD every time gets expensive.
22:12:41[Saint]You can convert them to high capacity solid state players fairly trivially though.
22:13:02[Saint](and then negate the expense of a spinning platter)
22:14:46JordiGHWell, I use a 32-gig micro sd card on the Clip+ and now Clip Zip.
22:15:07JordiGHDammit, I love this little player. I kind of want to fund someone to recreate it with ada fruits or similar.
22:15:27[Saint]There's really absolutely no way to do so.
22:15:43[Saint]Though various people have caught the idealistic bug in the past.
22:15:45JordiGHCan there be any custom hardware that Rockbox can run on?
22:15:51[Saint]Those people have predictably failed.
22:16:06[Saint]There's no way for an independent to bring an even vaguely comparable product to market.
22:16:20[Saint]Economy of scale, and all that.
22:16:32[Saint]We'd end up with a shittier product for at least twice the price.
22:16:48NathanVhow can I submit my battery test file?
22:17:44JordiGHSo the Clip Zip is a pinnacle of engineering?
22:17:55JordiGHAnd now it's dying? :-(
22:18:00JordiGHSo sad.
22:18:17[Saint]Oh, no. Shit not. But it's cheaper and higher quality than anything you or I could bring to market.
22:18:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:19:02NathanVI have a zip and I love it too. But honestly I like the Fuze slightly more. V2 has like 1 day of battery life and a big enough screen for fun times with rockboy/games/album art and it's only like 2x as big as the Zip.
22:19:18[Saint]That DPAD though...
22:19:21JordiGHHm, can I still buy it?
22:19:32NathanVdpas refers to the direcitonal controls right?
22:19:57NathanVI haven't had problems with it yet. Does it have a short lifespan or something?
22:20:04[Saint]The Sansas all remind me of Happy Meal toys.
22:20:05NathanVThe wheel feels a bit flimsy if anything.
22:20:12NathanVYeah they do
22:20:21NathanVAlso I don't look forward to probably headphone jack problems in the future :(
22:20:32NathanVFirst Clip+ fell victim to that
22:20:36JordiGHI'm going to keep my clip+ around for backup.
22:20:38[Saint]It feels gritty and weird. If a tiny little bit of sand or what-have-you gets in there you've gotta painstakingly take it apart.
22:20:42JordiGHWhat can I do about battery life?
22:20:45[Saint]Else it'll die with a quickness.
22:21:03JordiGHShould I get a rubber cover for it? I saw that Amazon sold some rubber covers for Clip Zips.
22:21:15NathanVLow bitrate & easy to decode files (check the codec performance page) and low backlight settings
22:21:16[Saint]JordiGH: what of battery life? I highly doubt you're having problems in this arena.
22:21:27[Saint]You'll get 24h out of it easily.
22:21:39NathanV24h from Zip? that's not what I thought.
22:21:44JordiGH[Saint]: If I don't touch my clip+ for a couple of years, its battery will be a little worn out, right?
22:21:49JordiGHBatteries just die lying around.
22:22:03[Saint]Yes. Of course. Science nor magic can help you there.
22:22:10JordiGHI get around 14 hours from a clip+. I haven't tried the Clip Zip yet.
22:22:12[Saint]It be how batteries do.
22:22:32JordiGHOkay, so how can I slow that down? Should I store the battery at medium charge? And... put it in my fridge?
22:22:40[Saint]You don't.
22:22:50JordiGHOh, cruel fate.
22:23:09NathanVZip should probably get around 18 to 19 if good condition.
22:24:38[Saint]I suspect you're the pokey type.
22:25:14[Saint]just looped playback exhausting the buffer and letting it repopulate should net you ~24h fairly easy.
22:25:29NathanVHow many rockboxed players do you have Saint?
22:25:31[Saint]if you're constantly fiddling with things, then, yess - less.
22:25:37[Saint]"a lot"
22:25:54NathanVI'm still looking for people who have a yp-r0
22:26:19[Saint]Heh - I have one. It just isn't in a functional state, so I guess I'm not your man.
22:26:31[Saint]Unless you're perhaps looking to buy it and in Australasia.
22:26:33NathanVWhat did you do to it?
22:26:45[Saint]No idea. It just gave up the ghost one day.
22:26:58NathanVWell yeah I was looking to buy one but didn't really think people would be willing to buy/sell stuff here.
22:26:58[Saint]Does nothing except boot to a white screen.
22:27:05NathanVDid you rockbox it?
22:27:22[Saint]Yep. One day I went to turn it on and just...nada.
22:27:51[Saint]None of the supposed recovery facilities work as detailed, so it's something fundamentally wrong, whatever it is.
22:27:54NathanVIt seems like practically the best possible rockboxable player in almost every measure.
22:28:06JordiGHI had a yp-u2.
22:28:14JordiGHIs it at all similar?
22:28:14[Saint]Ah. I see you spelled iPod Classic wrong.
22:28:23[Saint]It has less Y's a P's in it.
22:28:29NathanViPod classic has slow processor though.
22:28:36NathanVNo rockboy fun :(
22:28:53[Saint]Errr, it's no slouch my man.
22:29:07NathanVIt can't do rockboy at fullspeed though, right?
22:29:08[Saint]Are you thinking of the actual classic ipods, and not the iPod Classic?
22:29:17NathanVGen 5 and 5.5 right?
22:29:25[Saint]So, you are then.
22:29:28NathanVoh you mean the 6th
22:29:31[Saint]I do.
22:29:44NathanVBut I heard bad sound quality
22:30:17[Saint]when people say bad, they often seem to mean "not artificially coloured in their favor"
22:30:26[Saint]it's fairly flat and quite true to reproduction.
22:30:28NathanVYeah I guess that could be true
22:30:31NathanVOh really?
22:30:38NathanVI do know that the 5/5.5 is warm.
22:31:00[Saint]and there's more than enough CPU to throw at the 10 band parametric we ship to correct for your monitors.
22:31:08NathanVBut I heard the sansa clip/zip/fuze line has comparable sq.
22:31:21[Saint]that's in no way true for the other iPod (except the N2G).
22:31:51NathanVHave you checked how rockboy runs on iPod 6th?
22:31:52[Saint]You can throw CPU tasks at the Classic for days unless you're using a truly silly codec like APE-insane
22:32:25[Saint]common lossy and lossly codecs are brutally efficient.
22:32:34[Saint]*lossless - bah, typing
22:32:46NathanVlossly sounds funny
22:35:31[Saint]And, no. I haven't touched the plugins deliberately in a long time - I'm at somewhat of a constant internal battle with myself that often considers forking this project and carving out all that crap. (crap being subjective).
22:35:55JordiGHOh, that reminds me. I gotta implement 2048.
22:36:11[Saint]These days everything we can offer in a plugin can be done vastly more efficiently and comfortably on the mobile device 9/10 people are carrying anyway.
22:36:15JordiGHChopper is kinda harder to play on the Clip Zip because the screen is narrower.
22:36:16[Saint]JordiGH: done
22:36:26JordiGH[Saint]: Crap. In dev?
22:36:33[Saint]Should be, yes.
22:36:51JordiGHThere's no release manager anymore, is there?
22:36:54[Saint]Please please please don't use the release.
22:37:03[Saint]Like, just forget it exists.
22:37:26[Saint]You're about to update and get wildly more efficient and a tonne of bugfixes.
22:37:30JordiGHEh, I know devs always think the latest is what everyone should use, but I like old software.
22:37:39[Saint]No. Don't.
22:37:48JordiGHYou can't stop me. :P
22:37:49 Part ender`
22:37:50[Saint]I assure you there's nothing for you there.
22:38:01JordiGHThere's much for me here! I'm really happy with it!
22:38:03[Saint]Nothing but historic bugs and inefficiency.
22:38:06JordiGHYou can't stop my happiness.
22:38:16[Saint]I could /increase/ it, though. ;)
22:38:25JordiGHAnyways, if the releease is so bad, make a new one.
22:38:29JordiGHOr remove it from the pages.
22:38:54[Saint]I would like very much to do the latter, but there's various reasons why other people think it's a bad idea.
22:39:01JordiGHAnd the former?
22:39:14[Saint]We'd like to do the former but it is difficult to coordinate with so little feet on the ground.
22:39:56JordiGHReleases are a commitment to stability. No more features, no more changes, no newer bugs. What kind of guarantee is there for the dev version?
22:40:02[Saint]The releases necessity waned as the stable targets only continued to get more so.
22:40:12JordiGHI prefer older and known bugs than new and unknown bugs.
22:40:23[Saint]The thing is, though, it's a commitment to quality from ~3 years ago.
22:40:31[Saint]And we've come a long long ways since then.
22:40:37JordiGH3 years ago is very recent.
22:40:41JordiGHI run Debian stable.
22:40:47[Saint]Not in our model it isn't.
22:41:02JordiGHBah, then make it official. I want to hear other devs say it.
22:41:40[Saint]No other dev is going to tell you to run the release on a stable target unless you know there's some upstream breaking change, I assure you. But I'll let that happen organically.
22:42:37JordiGHWell, the webpage is telling me to do so. Fix it.
22:42:48JordiGHConvince the other devs. You said they disagreed with you.
22:42:57JordiGHThey must have their reasons.
22:43:41[Saint]The reason there is essentially limited to there being a tiny subset of people who can manage the main page.
22:43:58 Quit Guest60236 (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:43:59[Saint]We're a much smaller project than you might think at this stage.
22:44:09JordiGHI am sure you're tiny. Maybe one or two people.
22:44:40 Join Guest60236 [0] (
22:44:52[Saint]Active committers, maybe a half dozen or so.
22:45:22[Saint]two or three people doing the bulk of the work on their own hobby projects.
22:46:39 Join edhelas [0] (~edhelas@
22:47:13[Saint]It kinda boiled down to a way of thinking where if people are using the release and they're happy with it, that's cool and it's not going to make things catch fire. But if they come in for support the very first thing suggested is almost certainly going to be to shift to the dev builds to get the last three and a half almost four years of bug fixes.
22:47:25JordiGHOkay, so I'm the first person.
22:47:31JordiGHI don't even know how to upgrade.
22:47:39JordiGHGrab a tarball and explode it at the root?
22:47:54[Saint].zip, and yes, that's one way.
22:48:02[Saint]or point RbUtil at it.
22:48:11 Quit Rower (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
22:49:18[Saint]The manual for your player (which always tracks mainline) describes this and 98% of everything else in detail.
22:49:21 Join saratoga [0] (123e11e0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
22:49:34[Saint]well...lets say ~95%
22:49:50saratogaJordiGH: you really don't want to run a 3 year old stable build unless you have a very old target
22:50:13[Saint] of the Archos'.
22:50:17[Saint]THAT old old.
22:50:18saratogaits stable as in "we haven't changed it in forever", in terms of working well its probably much less stable on modern devices
22:50:46saratogatake a look at the changelog and you'll see what i mean
22:50:48[Saint]saratoga: hahaha - thanks, I was kinda hoping that acknowledgement would happen in this same session. :)
22:50:54JordiGHI have looked at the changelog.
22:51:00JordiGHNothing really interesting showed up.
22:51:03[Saint]saratoga: he should update bootloader, too, no?
22:51:06JordiGHI was like, "eh, someone is working on their pet project."
22:51:12[Saint]We have USB/sdcard recovery on this now do we not?
22:51:18[Saint]but not in the release bootloader.
22:51:39[Saint]Normally I wouldn't ever suggest bootloader update but I think here we actually want to.
22:51:40saratogaon AMS ? I believe there is USB in the release bootloaders as well
22:51:49[Saint]Oh. Hmmm. Thanks.
22:52:05JordiGHHnnnngggg, I hate updates.
22:52:10JordiGHI have something that I know and works now.
22:52:12saratogaonce the new USB driver goes in we probably have to revisit the bootloader
22:52:19*[Saint] nods
22:52:25JordiGHNow you want me to do work to get into a new and unfamiliar state.
22:52:33JordiGHMaybe it'll work, but I don't have anything I want to fix.
22:52:44[Saint]unfamiliar to you, vastly more familiar to us.
22:52:52JordiGHI don't want to undertake work for potential breakage.
22:53:12[Saint]there's more potential for that in the build you're using.
22:53:19[Saint]and that's a hard fact.
22:53:22JordiGHDevs always think each of their commits is beautiful and perfect and everyone should be experiencing the entirety of their commits.
22:53:29JordiGHI think,
22:53:33JordiGHA blog post from 2012.
22:53:39JordiGHEven older than your release!
22:53:41JordiGHAnd still relevant.
22:53:48[Saint]Look mate - no one's going to twist you arm...
22:53:55[Saint]Do as you will.
22:54:10saratogayeah do whatever you want, and no need to tell us about it
22:54:13JordiGHI'll try it on the clip+ first. See how much breaks.
22:54:17[Saint]Just know that what's being said here isn;t being said for funsies.
22:54:35[Saint]It's a very real recommendation for very real reasons.
22:54:45JordiGHIf I can tolerate it, I'll try a (not "the") dev version on the clip zip.
22:55:34[Saint]this isn;t comparable to updating a live system.
22:55:46[Saint]with every update we throw out the last system entirely.
22:55:59[Saint]we replace everything the system is dependent on.
22:56:28[Saint]your user files and system generated configs will still persist however.
22:58:21[Saint]it's not comparable in a lot of ways with updating a live system, or in terms of attack vector. It's a DAP, the attack surface is wide open.
22:58:56[Saint]Nothing sensitive or critical should ever live there. Treat it as volatile.
22:59:35JordiGHWell, there's always bricking...
23:02:57[Saint]the risk is equally great with the release, actually marginally higher.
23:03:17[Saint]but the risk should be noted as "near zero".
23:03:58[Saint]When these devices fail they tend to fail due to shitty storage, and that'll happen regardless.
23:05:19[Saint]try searching SanDisk forums for 'stuck' or 'boot loop' or 'splash screen' one day.
23:05:25[Saint]they brick just fine on their own.
23:06:16[Saint]at least we turn them into something useful over sub-par fashion crap in the meantime before that happens.
23:07:03 Quit JordiGH (Quit: Jacking out)
23:08:54 Quit paulk-aldrin (Quit: Leaving)
23:10:38 Join JanC_ [0] (~janc@lugwv/member/JanC)
23:11:40 Nick JanC is now known as Guest85214 (~janc@lugwv/member/JanC)
23:11:41 Quit Guest85214 (Killed ( (Nickname regained by services)))
23:11:41 Nick JanC_ is now known as JanC (~janc@lugwv/member/JanC)
23:21:24 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 47.0.1/20160623154057])
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23:57:29 Join Shout [0] (
23:58:55Shouthey fellas - any support for the sandisk clip sport or clip jam in the works? or is this something yall need help with?

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