--- Log for 30.03.108 Server: heinlein.freenode.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: logbot Version: Dancer V4.16 Started: 15 days and 21 hours ago 00.00.00 Join kushal_12_27_200 [0] (n=kushal@12.169.180.134) 00.00.35 # Narc4746751, i think when the sansa in manufacturer mode the operating systems reads it as something else but i do not remember right now 00.00.58 # the site will start off clean slate as originally intended...i dont feel like editing hundreds of text files to make them have the correct info for the new site 00.01.03 Quit fyrestorm (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00.01.05 # narc, it reads as some USB device. 00.01.09 Join fyre^OS [0] (n=fyre@cpe-68-173-163-201.nyc.res.rr.com) 00.01.17 # ok, I took off the front cover 00.01.33 # and on haxx.se there is a picture of the board 00.01.38 # and the picture has a TI L2 chip 00.01.43 # which is missing on my player 00.01.58 Join cbr|w [0] (n=cbr@212.98.160.130) 00.02.16 # Narc4746751: please express yourself in complete thoughts on a single line...it makes things much easier to read than splitting it up liek that 00.02.30 # Will do, scorche. 00.02.59 # Narc4746751, do you know if it is v1 or v2.. i can find a photo of a v2 from the forums if needed 00.03.01 # I've removed the front cover on my e260 and looked at the circuit board. On haxx.se there is a picture of a TI L2 chip on the front of the board. Mine seems to be missing. 00.03.05 # it is a v1 00.03.51 # lol 00.04.01 # * Narc4746751 puts a big greasy fingerprint right on the LCD 00.04.37 # look at these photos and see if they look like yours.. http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14064.msg114410#msg114410 00.05.43 # advcomp2019, the front board does not match. I don't think it's a v2. 00.06.45 # o ok.. it was just an idea 00.06.54 # it's OK 00.07.11 # I wonder what that TI chip does 00.07.28 # it's U14 on the circuit board 00.08.17 # could it be the chip for the radio? that's the only thing i know of that some v1 have that others don't 00.09.38 # mud-rb_, apparently it's a CMOS driver 00.09.50 # http://www.digchip.com/datasheets/parts/datasheet/477/SN74LVC244A.php 00.10.22 # it doesn't show any signs of having been removed either 00.11.05 # Bagder: isnt it logical that the M3 be placed before the M5 and X5 in the builds page? 00.11.25 # yes I guess 00.13.18 Join jrsharp [0] (n=jrsharp@c-68-52-226-233.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) 00.13.42 Join nub [0] (n=drumsocc@cpe-24-169-134-13.rochester.res.rr.com) 00.14.44 # hey all... my father-in-law is blind and I've recently started considering getting him an mp3 player of some kind and installing the rockbox firmware with speech stuff... my question is, is there a particular supported device that is recommended? 00.15.35 # anyone know how to get a vid onto a ipod 1st gen? 00.15.41 # jrsharp: I'd consider asking on the mailing list, where most of our blind users seem to hang out 00.16.13 # I'd guess that the ones with actual real buttons are preferred 00.16.34 # over, say, an iPod with a click wheel? 00.16.36 # * domonok1 recomends jrsharp a device with actual buttons instead of a slidewheel or alike.. 00.16.43 # jrsharp: right 00.17.08 # ok... so a 1st gen iPod would count, right? they didn't have the click wheel, right? 00.17.21 # yes. 00.17.43 # ok, cool 00.17.51 # but 1gen ipod isnt really stabel with rockbox till now, am i right ? 00.17.52 # of course, I'm not stuck on an iPod... 00.17.54 # Llorean, scorche: It might be useful to separate the M3 themes, as the M3 allows to choose e.g. the font freely, while the M5/X5 remotes are coupled to the main font 00.18.25 # domonok1: oh? I figured 1st gen ought to be well supported... 00.18.46 # http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/TargetStatus :-) 00.18.48 # amiconn: yes...i already have a separate section for the M3 and am not planning on tying in the RWPSs to the M3 section 00.18.50 Quit CyBergRind|w (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00.18.50 # tough i wouldn't recommend an iPod at all, though i can use mine blindy very well since it has a case and the clickwheel is now 1mm below the average case heigh 00.18.53 # jrsharp: You want a non-portalplayer in my opinion 00.19.00 # 1st/2nd Gen should be stable now, but the lack of suspend isn't nice 00.19.13 # amiconn: The interesting thing is, though, that any font chosen for the "main" font, would still have to work with the .rwps file on M5/X5 anyway, so they'd be valid. The only problem is I imagine it'd load the .wps instead of the .rwps for the remote screen on the M3, so that's the real problem (in my view) 00.19.32 # domonok1: ahh... I see that now 00.19.33 # If it loaded .rwps, it wouldn't look as good as it could, but it'd still be designed for that screen / font combo 00.20.06 # anyone: do you guys know who to put a video onto a 1st gen ipod nano. i am confused by the directions given 00.20.14 # iriver H100, H300, iaudio X5, M5, (M3?), or for most stability but MP3 only one of the Archos' 00.20.16 # theme makers can just submit their own for the M3 and if a person wants (and knows about it), they can take the RWPS out of the M5/X5 sections...i could put a notice at teh top of the M5 portion as well 00.20.19 # nub: Cpy and paste? 00.20.23 # *copy 00.20.24 # jrsharp: you may also want to look at: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/TargetStatus?topic=BuyersGuide 00.20.29 # nub: which part specifically? 00.20.49 # DerPapst: why a non-portalplayer? 00.20.57 # I think a 1st..3rd Gen ipod would be better for a blind user than the newer ipods, because these older ones don't have the buttons integrated into the wheel (i.e. no clickwheel, but a separate touchwheel (2nd and 3rd Gen) or a mechanical scrollwheel (1st Gen) respectively 00.21.00 # domonok1: thanks, I'm checking that out 00.21.20 # jrsharp: I assume that was at me, not DerPapst 00.21.49 # BigBambi: yeah, sorry... my eyes got crossed.. >) 00.22.09 # Ah yes, there's that detection problem on early 1st Gens... 00.22.11 # amiconn: yeah, tha's a good point 00.22.25 # scorche: Notice is probably best. "While X5/M5 themes don't directly work with the M3, the RWPS can be taken and used as an M3 WPS with small modifications to the .cfg" or some such 00.22.26 # jrsharp: And because of battery life, stability and completeness of features. There isn't much in it now, but still 00.22.38 # * amiconn should post his test bootloader... 00.22.42 # i wouldn't recommend a 3G at all 00.22.53 # because the hold switch is the only real "button" 00.23.19 # DerPapst: The buttons below the lcd are touch stuff on 3rd Gen? 00.23.26 # yes 00.23.33 # so do the voice features of rockbox work equally well on all ports, then 00.23.34 # ? 00.24.03 # Oh, so that's also bad. 1st/2nd Gen should have better battery runtime than 3rd Gen (purely because of the higher battery capacity) 00.24.05 # yes, only the old archos are a bit more limited.. 00.24.21 # More limited, but stable..... 00.25.14 # ok 00.25.26 # i thought the 3G has a better battery 00.25.29 # The 1st/2nd Gen buttons are mechanical, and they protrude from the case 00.25.57 # DerPapst: 3rd Gen battery capacity is around half that of the 1st/2nd Gen - with the same CPU... 00.26.12 # The drawback of the 1st/2nd Gen is that they're firewire only 00.26.15 # oh... 00.26.16 # * domonok1 still need someone to tell him why this talkfile: http://www.retrospektiwe.de/The%20Last%20Supper.mp3.talk is cut of in rockbox, but decodes fine with rbspeexdec .. 00.26.46 # 1230mAh (1st/2nd) vs. 630mA (3rd) 00.26.49 # * jhMikeS still wonders why any would be at all 00.27.05 # ok dude im confused say i have a .mp4 vid 00.27.12 # i cant just put that into the ipod right 00.27.45 # nub, yes you have to convert, take a look at the wikipage of mpegplayer 00.27.47 # nub: no, you can't. you need to transcode it to a different codec. 00.27.58 # to mpeg correct 00.28.02 # mpeg-2 00.28.04 # right 00.28.13 # to mpeg and the right screensize.. 00.28.14 # correct 00.28.18 # or 1 00.29.49 # is there some header which could be wrong in talkfiles ? or are they completly raw ? 00.30.12 # thanks everybody... you've been very helpful 00.31.59 # domonok1: raw speex 00.32.26 # after converted 00.32.31 # copy and paste? 00.32.50 # jhMikeS: any idea how i could debug this problem ? ( the talkfile was generated by rbutil, and i want find the bug) :-) 00.33.49 # make sure talk.c is sending everything. the voice thread should also be decoding everything until libspeex indicates the clip has ended. 00.34.51 # I take it this depends on if music is running or not? 00.35.10 # i only tried it without music.. 00.35.15 # What's the easiest way to remove lint and fibers from the inside of a player's case? 00.35.23 # i have access to a cleanroom if necessary 00.35.36 # its also cut off in the sim... but a decoded wav file with rbspeexdec is fine with it.. 00.36.08 # I'd try with music. that may point to the pcm buffer not playing every frame 00.36.39 # Maybe I'll try a can of duster. 00.36.51 # on target its fine with musik.. 00.37.37 # so it probably just stops playback to early ? 00.37.39 Quit phinze () 00.38.45 # that indicates talk.c and voice_thread.c are doing it right but makes me suspect the pcmbuf.c fails to play all the inserted data 00.41.08 Quit nub () 00.41.10 # * domonok1 is a bit lost in this code .. :-/ 00.43.13 Join BumAz [0] (n=drumsocc@cpe-24-169-134-13.rochester.res.rr.com) 00.43.25 Quit m0f0x () 00.43.42 # untagged tracksss? how can i change that 00.43.49 # tag them 00.44.01 # how 00.44.31 # by using a tag editor like mp3tag, the godfather, etc (assuming you are using windows and mp3s) 00.44.59 Join mokkurkalve [0] (n=eivind@062016139251.customer.alfanett.no) 00.45.35 # Narc4746751: just reading the backlog. Did you run lsusb and e200tool as root ? 00.45.42 # scorche: why does it do that 00.46.03 # "it" doesnt...you didnt tag them or wherever you got them from didnt 00.46.40 # scorche: pretty gayy if u ask me 00.46.45 # ... 00.46.54 # gevaerts, yes 00.47.04 # this is *your* fault here for not tagging your files... 00.47.07 # ok. that's not the problem then... 00.47.09 # gevaerts, i opened the cabinet and found a missing IC. 00.47.22 # scorche, well its itunes fault 00.47.29 # then whine to them 00.47.56 Quit jrsharp () 00.48.06 # gevaerts, the TI LC24 to be exact 00.49.53 # * amiconn now has a bunch of rather interesting curves 00.50.17 # * Narc4746751 puts on sunglasses and gazes at amiconn sideways 00.50.41 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") 00.50.55 # i will 00.51.51 # ok scorche, can u use other programs to dl music too then? 00.51.59 # that is offtopic here 00.52.19 # o ok 00.53.44 Join phinze [0] (n=phinze@pcp027324pcs.jesres.mu.edu) 00.56.45 # Could some gsoc mentors have a look at the latest comment in Corey Shaffer's usability application ? I think someone with more rockbox-knowledge than me should reply to that 00.58.37 Quit Rincewind ("bye") 00.59.34 # I commented...there are quite a few other things about his application I think needs to be discussed besides that, so it would just be better in IRC 01.00.14 Quit Chipsaru (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01.00.20 # great 01.00.34 Quit phinze () 01.03.57 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 01.06.25 # scorche: Just a thought - if we have discussions with students in IRC, one of us should try and remember to post a link to the logs as a comment attached to the application, so mentors that miss the chat in IRC know it existed. 01.06.43 # (or even the student could...) 01.06.52 Join GPT [0] (n=GPT@unaffiliated/gpt) 01.07.34 # linuxstb: that is a good idea, however there are some folks who are in here routinely and we would end up with a hundred or so links... 01.08.03 # True... 01.08.39 Quit ender` (" Today's BOFH excuse: broadcast packets on wrong frequency") 01.09.00 # there are also discussions about certain ideas that may not have been about the student's proposal specifically 01.09.14 Quit tessarakt ("Client exiting") 01.09.19 Join tessarakt [0] (n=jens@e180066037.adsl.alicedsl.de) 01.16.12 Quit Narc4746751 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01.19.05 Quit midkay ("Leaving") 01.20.27 Join FOAD_ [0] (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) 01.21.32 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay) 01.23.37 Quit kugel (Remote closed the connection) 01.23.51 Join kugel [0] (n=kugel@unaffiliated/kugel) 01.27.45 Quit gevaerts ("sleeping time") 01.29.07 Quit Breakage ("Leaving") 01.35.04 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.) 01.35.11 Join amiconn [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 01.37.18 Quit FOAD (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01.37.19 Nick FOAD_ is now known as FOAD (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) 01.37.23 Quit roolku () 01.37.38 Join mud_rb__ [0] (n=mud-rb@dialup-4.156.9.62.Dial1.Boston1.Level3.net) 01.39.04 Join Pio__ [0] (n=sean@64.251.10.106) 01.46.32 Quit domonok1 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01.48.39 Join SirFunk [0] (n=Sir@206-159-155-246.netsync.net) 01.50.18 Quit moos (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01.50.31 Quit Pio (Connection timed out) 01.50.43 Join Chronon [0] (n=knoppix@c-71-236-147-148.hsd1.or.comcast.net) 01.56.09 Quit mud-rb_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03.00.51 Quit n1s () 03.02.48 Quit tessarakt (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03.03.18 Join tessarakt [0] (i=nobody@vpn-cl-160-120.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de) 03.04.15 Part kslater 03.07.00 Quit tessarakt (Client Quit) 03.10.52 # what's the best way to prepare the source code to be distributed without all the .svn folders? 03.11.26 Quit tvelocity (Remote closed the connection) 03.11.39 # kugel: look how it is done here: http://pastebin.ca/962361 03.12.14 Join psycho_maniac [0] (i=psycho_m@ppp024.hk.centurytel.net) 03.13.36 Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) 03.13.45 # congrats on getting into the 2008 GSOC 03.13.46 # I don't quite get the script. what will it exactly do? 03.15.11 # DerPapst: ^ 03.16.11 # DerPapst: I don't see where the .svn folders are taken out 03.16.14 # it will copy the entire svn tree to a folder and 7zip it up. 03.16.48 # with the .svn folders? 03.16.55 # I do not want them 03.16.55 # kugel: it doesn't. svn ls -R doesn't include them 03.18.26 # the line including the svn ls -R part copies the entire source tree to another directory skipping the .svn folders. 03.19.35 # ah ok 03.20.06 # and if I don't want 7z but normal zip? 03.23.02 # A simple way would just be (in your Rockbox dir) "svn ls -R | xargs zip mysource.zip" 03.23.16 # replace the 7zr command with the zip one. 03.23.38 # meh.. too easy 03.24.22 # DerPapst: Yea, that idea came just into my mind after I asked :/ Too late allready for me 03.24.22 Quit psycho_maniac (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Now with extra fish!") 03.24.46 # linuxstb, DerPapst: Thanks. I didn't know about "svn ls -R" 03.25.45 # It seems to delete.rej and .org files as well. 03.25.59 # s/delete/skip :-P 03.26.33 # it skips all files not added to svn. So in order to add new source files you need to svn add them first. 03.27.31 # ah ok 03.27.36 # yea, I've done that 03.29.29 # kugel: there's also svn export 03.31.04 # DerPapst: The files I added aren't in the zip 03.32.50 # Nico_P: Does that work with local changes though? 03.33.29 Join Kage [0] (n=delphiki@ppp-88-217-76-109.dynamic.mnet-online.de) 03.33.37 # kugel: and you did "svn add ./path/to/file.c" ? 03.33.44 # DerPapst: sure 03.34.04 # linuxstb: apparently if you don't specify the rev local changes are kept 03.34.13 # hrmm.... don't know then 03.34.19 # I've never tried though 03.34.24 # * DerPapst isn't a svn wizard 03.35.23 # * DerPapst tries 03.36.12 Quit DerDome (Nick collision from services.) 03.36.13 Join DerDom1 [0] (n=DerDome@dslb-082-083-216-218.pools.arcor-ip.net) 03.36.23 Nick DerDom1 is now known as DerDome (n=DerDome@dslb-082-083-216-218.pools.arcor-ip.net) 03.38.16 # indeed, it's missing 03.38.45 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) 03.38.50 # no idea why though 03.40.43 # svn export does the trick. 03.43.52 # yea 03.47.31 Quit Kage ("return(EXIT_SUCCESS);") 03.47.50 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection) 04.04.01 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 04.04.03 Nick TaylorKillia1 is now known as TaylorKillian (n=Administ@d60-65-59-145.col.wideopenwest.com) 04.14.42 Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04.21.59 Quit Rob2223 () 04.26.10 Quit mud_rb__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04.26.16 Quit midkay ("Leaving") 04.27.14 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=miepchen@p54BF6E90.dip.t-dialin.net) 04.27.57 Join CaptainKewl [0] (i=jds@207-237-172-5.c3-0.nyr-ubr4.nyr.ny.cable.rcn.com) 04.29.01 Join mud_rb__ [0] (n=mud-rb@dialup-4.156.9.62.Dial1.Boston1.Level3.net) 04.42.28 Quit miepchen^schlaf_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04.50.24 Join safetydan [0] (n=safetyda@rockbox/developer/safetydan) 04.54.14 Quit kushal_12_27_200 ("This computer has gone to sleep") 04.59.05 Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@p4FDCD0FC.dip.t-dialin.net) 04.59.53 Quit DerPapst (Nick collision from services.) 04.59.56 Join DerPapst [0] (n=DerPapst@p5B23DD3D.dip.t-dialin.net) 05.05.35 Join kushal_12_27_200 [0] (n=kushal@12.169.180.134) 05.07.16 Quit Chronon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05.16.28 Quit CaptainKewl ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )") 05.30.53 Quit rotator () 05.34.44 Join Dr_Pressure [0] (n=1816b83b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-7624a32f3dab139e) 05.37.00 # I have a question about power supplies for an Archos. Would it be better suited in #rockbox-community or in here? 05.40.00 Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.13/2008032514]") 05.40.06 Nick JdGordon_ is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 05.42.28 Join phinze [0] (n=phinze@pcp027324pcs.jesres.mu.edu) 05.49.49 Quit phinze () 05.51.58 Join phinze [0] (n=phinze@pcp027324pcs.jesres.mu.edu) 06.02.26 Join jjjj [0] (n=ttrrr@pool-71-118-171-95.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) 06.04.05 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 06.08.36 Quit phinze () 06.10.08 Join sarixe [0] (n=sarixe@68.239.199.99) 06.14.56 Join piga [0] (n=leonardo@200-161-96-59.dsl.telesp.net.br) 06.16.48 Quit jjjj ("—I-n-v-i-s-i-o-n— 2.0 Build 3515") 06.25.45 Quit ctaylorr (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06.30.39 Join BHSPitLappy [0] (n=stephen@adsl-68-88-140-226.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) 06.32.19 Join mud-rb_ [0] (n=mud-rb@dialup-4.156.9.58.Dial1.Boston1.Level3.net) 06.44.31 Join goffa_ [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) 06.45.40 Quit mud_rb__ (Connection timed out) 06.47.10 Quit piga (Remote closed the connection) 06.48.34 Quit goffa (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06.51.53 Join InHisName [0] (n=Administ@c-71-225-221-149.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) 06.54.37 Quit Dr_Pressure ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 07.00.52 Join aliask [0] (n=aliask@rockbox/developer/aliask) 07.00.57 Join phinze [0] (n=phinze@pcp027324pcs.jesres.mu.edu) 07.09.42 Quit HellDragon (Client Quit) 07.11.23 Join ranjith [0] (n=sailesh@202.83.54.56) 07.11.53 # hi everyone 07.12.40 # lo ranjith 07.15.55 Quit mud-rb_ (Remote closed the connection) 07.17.45 Join hd [0] (i=jd@unaffiliated/helldragon) 07.27.06 Join ranjith_ [0] (n=sailesh@202.83.54.56) 07.27.08 Quit ranjith (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07.31.21 Join ranjith__ [0] (n=sailesh@202.83.54.56) 07.31.25 Quit ranjith_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07.31.58 Join MagicFab [0] (n=magicfab@ubuntu/member/magicfab) 07.33.27 Quit hd (Client Quit) 07.36.25 Quit aliask ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.12/2008020710]") 07.39.08 Quit Kanos (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07.41.40 Join tedrock [0] (n=tedrock@d235-159-75.home1.cgocable.net) 07.46.04 Join jhulst_ [0] (n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) 07.54.47 Join hd [0] (i=jd@unaffiliated/helldragon) 07.55.39 Quit phinze () 08.04.07 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 08.09.30 Quit GPT () 08.14.46 Part toffe82 08.17.31 # * amiconn would think 'lightweight' would be for slow processors, not fast ones... 08.18.50 Quit kushal_12_27_200 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08.22.23 # morning amiconn :-) 08.22.39 Join Rob2223 [0] (n=Miranda@p4FDCEB03.dip.t-dialin.net) 08.23.07 # mo0ning 08.23.10 Join kushal_12_27_200 [0] (n=kushal@12.169.180.134) 08.27.01 Quit ranjith__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08.28.21 Join Zarggg_ [0] (n=z@216-15-73-111.c3-0.eas-ubr6.atw-eas.pa.cable.rcn.com) 08.32.16 Quit sarixe ("(EE) Failed to load "quit" module") 08.37.46 Quit Zarggg (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 08.39.13 Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08.42.04 Join davina [0] (n=davina@cpc1-sout6-0-0-cust616.sotn.cable.ntl.com) 08.52.48 Quit kushal_12_27_200 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08.53.52 Join RedDraken [0] (n=RedDrake@adsl-69-149-214-192.dsl.wchtks.swbell.net) 08.59.45 # not at all. the point is to have drivers that keep a fast processor doing nothing as much as possible and let peripherals do the work instead instead of cycle buring in loops. 09.01.27 Quit RedDraken ("KVIrc 3.2.4 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/") 09.02.05 # You mean just let the hardware do something and sleep meanwhile *without* yielding? 09.03.03 # yield by just sleeping the calling thread which lasts for the entire duration of whatever is being done 09.03.33 Join kushal_12_27_200 [0] (n=kushal@12.169.180.134) 09.04.09 # Why not a plain yield() in this case? 09.04.34 # then the processor can't enter a sleep state 09.04.55 # hmm 09.06.00 # So this is actually almost the same as sleep(0) if I'm not missing something 09.06.10 # no 09.06.50 # it's not tick based at all, it's immediate wakeup of the thread when the interrupt signals it 09.07.21 # Yes, that's why I said 'almost'Ä 09.07.24 # -Ä 09.07.44 # all explicit wakeups are immediate so they can happen faster and with far less latency than the tick 09.07.52 # sleep(0) sleeps until the end of the tick. This one just sleeps until the next interrupt 09.09.51 # Well, my first thought might actually be useful on all targets: a micro-sleep *without* yielding, instead of those really short delay loops. Requires the respective driver code to use interrupts though 09.09.53 # the thread isn't nescessary put pack into the run list on the next interrupt, many interrupts could happen before the handler wakes it. 09.11.03 # But that idea doesn't need support in the scheduler, and is better inlinied into the driver code 09.11.26 # micro sleep? like udelay? :) 09.11.55 # Yes and no. udelay() uses busy-looping 09.14.04 # Hmm, the PP502x has that suspend-for-n microseconds feature, which could (should?) be used for udealy... 09.14.09 # *udelay 09.14.47 # I don't think it's sensitive to interrupts though even if bit 31 is set 09.15.33 # What was the limit, again? There are some udelay calls waiting a quite high number of microseconds 09.15.52 # 256 of any unit 09.16.11 # 255 09.16.37 # Hmm, so the wait has to be split anyway 09.17.51 # where are the big udelays used for anything other than init code (and the e200 radio driver)? 09.18.20 # I only know some inits (e.g. lcd) 09.18.31 # Those should better use sleep() 09.18.51 # But then we need a working sleep() for bootloaders 09.19.01 # yep 09.20.27 # The udelay() could use the core suspend feature with just a tiny bit more code: 09.21.17 # It has to be short enough to allow FIQ servicing though 09.21.18 # Instead of the empty while(){} body, make it suspend for MAX(stop-USEC_TIMER, 255) 09.21.42 # Erm, MIN() of course 09.23.00 # How deep is the sample fifo? 09.24.03 # 16 09.24.24 # it's allow to drop to 4 before being refilled 09.26.52 # So 12 samples. Does the PP hardware support 88200Hz sample rate? 09.28.01 # It's supports a huge sample clock range and the wm codecs can support 96KHz I think 09.28.52 # OK. Hmm, actually the latency is 4 samples max, because the udelay() could be entered when the buffer is already quite low 09.29.22 # Still, 40 us should be safe (at 96kHz) then 09.29.30 # IIS master mode has a large range. A master codec determines the IIS clock otherwise 09.31.33 # At 80MHz, 80 us equals 3200 clock cycles during which the cpu could sleep before rechecking USEC_TIMER... depending on how often this is used in drivers, it save quite a bit of battery power 09.31.51 # Insert "could" where appropriate 09.32.06 # And iI meant 40 us, bah 09.35.43 # FIQ is allowed from IRQ mode so it should be ok even from inside an IRQ handler (I hope that's actually working) 09.39.09 # the scheduler has lower latencies across sleeps and context switches than 3200 clocks 09.40.04 # jhMikeS: why is therre IF_COP() being used instead of the full #ifdef ? isnt that frowned on? 09.40.41 # #ifdef everywhere makes the code bloody unreadable 09.41.29 Quit midgey () 09.41.41 # it's confined to one-liners only but if the code police must enforce it I'll change it 09.43.22 # 3200 clocks is about 3 to 4 messages received and responded to at 80MHz 09.46.01 # The scheduler might have lower latency, but the code in the schedules threads might not 09.46.14 # *scheduled 09.47.39 # The 3200 cycles are for 40 us, and some driver code relies on udelay() being precise enough 09.48.09 # There's at least one I know of - the brightness setting code for iPod Video+Nano 09.49.36 # that's the point - the scheduler is pure friction code and performs no useful work. those number didn't include disabling ticks or other periodic threads like power. 09.49.47 Quit ceclin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09.54.15 # But sleeping 3200 cycles is still better than busy-looping the same time, that was my point 09.54.31 # * amiconn should probably just try it 09.56.01 # quite true 09.56.28 # Is udelay() called from COP? 09.57.30 # I'm not aware of any instances right now. 09.58.59 # Hmm, still something it should be secured against, I think 09.59.15 # Maybe it makes sense to un-inline it then 09.59.45 # Something that is meant for waiting doesn't need to be super-fast after all :) 09.59.50 # CURRENT_CORE is only a 3-instruction inline 10.00.53 # Yeah, but checking that every loop iteration doesn't make sense 10.01.24 # the curent core is always the current one 10.02.06 # Of course. Thing is, you need to use a different register for suspending depending on which core enters udelay 10.02.29 # So udelay would need to be expanded into 2 different while() loops 10.02.30 # use PROC_CTL(core) = nnn 10.03.13 # that just makes a str r0, [r1, r2, lsl #2] kind of thing 10.03.14 # Then you do check every interation... 10.03.22 # hmm 10.04.08 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 10.10.07 # * amiconn thinks we should document all the RE'd PP details in our wiki 10.11.34 # another thing is I think the USEC_TIMER wraps way before 2^32-1, trying to use it for more extended measurement seemed to indicate that but I never actually ran a test 10.12.31 # Hmm, I don't think it does 10.12.44 # If it would, it would cause occasional freezes 10.13.32 # I tried measuring longer intervals in the e200 scrollwheel driver and it broke after about 20 minutes of inactivity 10.16.03 # Putting the USEC timer into the ports debug screen and then watch it for a while should tell. Weel, that 'while' would be quite long 10.16.37 Join ompaul [0] (n=ompaul@gnewsense/friend/ompaul) 10.16.52 # 4295 seconds, i.e. 1:11:35 10.17.42 # just have it splash or write the ticks to a file when it sees a value less than the previous? 10.18.31 # But if it wraps earlier, it could cause freezes, because then stop = USEC_TIMER + usecs could calculate a value that is never reached 10.21.43 # the udelay implementation in retailos is more elaborate than the one in rockbox. I think MrH just copied it to e200tool. 10.23.17 # oddly enough I see no use of clockskipping except in the frequency scaling :) 10.24.19 # * amiconn now has the udelay timer in his 2nd Gen ports debug screen 10.24.40 # Will watch it for a while. Just compiling the same for mini 2nd Gen 10.30.09 Quit jhulst_ ("Konversation terminated!") 10.31.24 Join picky [0] (n=4fd3cfa6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-b471b1a0b169a609) 10.33.07 # Llorean: ping 10.35.30 Quit Horschti (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10.39.01 Join ender` [0] (i=krneki@84-255-206-8.static.t-2.net) 10.39.31 # Are there microSD cards with at least 16GB capacity that are usable with Sansa e200 (under RockBox of course) 10.40.03 Join flaser [0] (n=5939d48b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-1d0feac9c8c5b999) 10.40.56 Join Horscht [0] (n=Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht) 10.42.39 # they dont go up that high yet 10.42.45 # Yes 10.42.47 # picky: And yes? 10.43.02 # scorche: And, they don't go that high *yet* :-P 10.43.41 Quit MagicFab (Remote closed the connection) 10.43.41 # that is why i put "yet" on there... 10.44.13 # picky: to make it clear, they should be once they come out, but they havent yet... 10.44.15 # Apparently I can't read. 10.44.20 # It is late/early. 10.44.39 # Llorean: heh...didnt even see the "yet"? 10.44.52 # nope 10.45.23 # * scorche cleans the smudge off Llorean's screen 10.45.33 Quit flaser ("CGI:IRC") 10.46.39 # scorche: ah, so there just isn't any? 8 GB is the biggest capacity available? 10.46.48 # currently, yes 10.47.57 # Llorean: have you seen my question and a proposal about inserting songs into playlist when the playback is stopped? (Please don't shoot me for the proposal :-) It was yesterday.... I'll look up the exact time... just a moment... 10.48.17 # picky: I saw it. 10.48.35 # The problem isn't "what should it do". 10.48.44 # scorche: ok, thanks! But I assume 8 GB works without problems. Are there preferred manufacturers? 10.48.58 # The problem, for me, was "until it does what most of us agree it should, what measures can we take easily to make it a bit clearer what's happening" 10.49.37 # picky: look around review sites for speed comparisons and decide by that if you must...i usually just get the cheapest one 10.49.47 # Llorean: Aha! But is there a general agreement on what it should do? If yes, what is it? 10.50.00 Quit DerPapst (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10.50.48 # scorche: so the only difference is the speed? I only need it for my music, no video o the like. So the speed shouldn't e an issue. It should just work. 10.51.04 # picky: Stopping should not change anything about how users interact with the playlist, and it shouldn't be cleared without the user explicitly knowing they're clearing it. 10.51.08 # what other difference are you expecting? 10.52.24 Join lee-qid [0] (n=liqid@p54964B83.dip.t-dialin.net) 10.52.25 # Llorean: but do I remember correctly that there was once a talk about it (in the forums?) and you was strongly in favor of the current behaviour? I.e. inserting when stopped = clear playlist and start playback? 10.52.35 # Have you changed your mind since then? 10.53.25 # I was strongly against the halfway point that we have now. 10.53.42 # Right now, we have inconsistent behaviour. You can view the playlist, but not insert into it. 10.54.02 # Llorean: I mean this thread: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=13003.0 10.54.45 Join pixelma [0] (n=Marianne@rockbox/staff/pixelma) 10.55.02 # A quote: "Then what would be the point of even HAVING a stop function, if the playlist will always act exactly as if it were paused?" 10.55.29 # picky: I still stand by that quote. 10.55.53 # I don't see what it has to do with anything. If all differences between Stop and Pause are removed, then Stop should be removed. 10.56.03 # What exactly is your point, if I may ask? 10.58.20 # Llorean: I try to understand how a "general opinion" is formed in RockBox. Once it was "Insert = clear playlist + start playback", now it's different. 10.58.56 # "general opinion" is very vague in general ;-) 10.59.09 # I mean, the general part 10.59.30 # It can be a "general" opinion if it's among the majority of people who've spoken up so far. 10.59.34 # It doesn't actually mean it's what's going to happen. 11.01.44 Join Gartral [0] (n=4b214de8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-9f7a289122acd7a2) 11.02.37 # Bagder: yes, the general part is too general :-) 11.02.53 # yeps 11.03.28 # why is there a shortcut creator in rockbox, if it dosnt do anything? 11.03.28 # * amiconn is strongly in favour of keeping the current behaviour 11.03.39 # picky: Whichever method is picked, it's unlikely that there will be an option for either. There's been a tradition of trying to find a single solution to such problems. 11.03.43 # Llorean: yes, I understand that it must become a general opinion among developers, not just the people who have spoken up so far 11.03.57 # But sometimes developers get infected with the masses' opinion :-) 11.04.16 # and we're a collection grumpy old devs! 11.04.34 # we like it how it was in the old days 11.04.39 # picky: Actually, it doesn't have to be a majority decision among developers, always. It's far more complicated than a single vote, and quite sometimes developers will even prefer one way but still side with changing a behaviour for other reasons despite it not being their preference. 11.04.57 # -quite 11.04.59 # * Gartral is strongly in favor of changing the current behavoir 11.05.15 # Llorean: the easiest solution: make it an option (just kidding) 11.05.29 # picky: Already said, that almost certainly won't happen. 11.05.46 # * Llorean is strongly in favour of removing the inconsistencies and ceasing to straddle the line, irrelevant of which direction that moves things. 11.06.14 # what does the shortcut optin in toe context menu for folders do? 11.06.51 # Gartral: Is that feature not yet covered by the manual? 11.06.54 # * amiconn can't see any inconsistency in the current behaviour, but likes the convenience of that behaviour 11.07.09 # amiconn: The inconsistency is the fact that you can view the current playlist, but not insert into it. 11.07.23 # Sure you can insert... just start playback before 11.07.44 # O-je, there was good time when adding a setting wasn't such a big crime. But then it got tougher... :-) 11.07.57 # amiconn: how is that *not* confusing to a user, though? 11.08.09 # no.. its not 11.08.12 # They see the playlist, and the option is named "Insert", the obvious assumption is that it will insert into the playlist. 11.08.18 # Llorean: I doubt that the shortcut feature is mentioned in the manual 11.08.29 # pixelma: I thought that he'd made a writeup about it. 11.08.30 # Llorean: As I said, then rename the option while playback is stopped 11.08.31 # I guess not 11.08.43 # amiconn: And that is one of the things I'll accept as "removing the inconsistencies" 11.08.54 # But that's a minor-minor-minor thing imo 11.09.08 Join Lear [0] (i=chatzill@rockbox/developer/lear) 11.09.17 # and whats with delay from hitting enter, and seeing my post your web client? 11.09.28 # But it's still confusing to the user. We still get people asking how to "Clear" playlists, and an option called "Clear and Insert" when playback is stopped would certainly help 11.09.28 # Especially when compared to the real problems... 11.09.28 # Gartral: it's a shortcut plugin. It's covered in the wiki. I'm not sure that the wiki describes the latest state though. 11.09.44 # Gartral: use a real client then... 11.10.49 # would i i didnt have 30 megs of ram 11.11.43 # i realize it a plugin, but what does it do?!? 11.14.25 # Gartral: look here: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginShortcuts 11.15.03 # ohh... that may be why i couldnt find it, i was looking in the wrong wiki 11.17.27 # ok... i was running under the impression of it set the folder/file up for quick access in the main menu 11.18.18 # What other wiki were you looking at? And what gave you that impression, or was it just a random guess? 11.20.20 Join FOAD_ [0] (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) 11.20.40 # umm, other wiki was sansa e200 wiki, and the impression was it was like a shortcut in any os, it adds the file/folder to the main menu/desktop 11.21.09 # What "e200 wiki" are you talking about? 11.21.41 Join Buschel [0] (n=AndreeBu@p54A3CA6E.dip.t-dialin.net) 11.21.50 # the sansa e200 FAQ wiki 11.21.55 # dun ask me too look for it, itll take a half hour 11.22.05 # Do you just mean the e200 FAQ page in our wiki? 11.22.07 Quit picky ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 11.22.41 # yes 11.23.17 # Just to avoid confusion in the future then, different pages on the same wiki aren't different wikis, they're just different pages. 11.24.19 # blah, im trying to type on a kb the size of my thumb 11.24.58 # You'll have to type even more if people don't know what you're talking about. ;) 11.25.21 # imon a freaking phone! 11.28.56 Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) 11.31.04 # is the shortcut file supposed to be named shortcut.link.lnk? 11.32.16 # good morning! 11.32.45 # can anyone close fs#8755 or grant the needed rights to me? 11.32.56 # i could only request the closure... 11.33.19 # Buschel: what's your FS user name? 11.33.28 # Andre Buschmann 11.33.33 # iirc 11.33.40 # Buschel 11.34.02 # Buschel: the tracker superpowers are now yours! 11.34.27 # * Buschel likes to have superpowers :) 11.34.31 # let's see 11.34.48 # jhMikeS: USEC_TIMER is a true 32 bit counter, both on PP5002 and PP502x 11.35.16 Quit amiconn (" bbl") 11.35.29 # * pixelma wonders about the holes in the build table 11.35.35 # would it be hard too implement actual shortcut functionallity too rockbox? 11.36.18 # Bagder: thanks, worked fine 11.37.52 Quit FOAD (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11.37.53 Nick FOAD_ is now known as FOAD (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) 11.38.17 Join bertrik [0] (n=Bertrik_@182-015-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) 11.39.51 Join PaulJam [0] (n=PaulJam_@p54BCFB74.dip.t-dialin.net) 11.41.21 # anything speaking against committing the patch in FS#8651 (fixes possible crash and dropouts during crossfading) 11.42.42 # Gartral: Believe it or not, in most OSes, shortcuts work a lot more like the Rockbox ones (simply files that, when invoked, redirect so that a different file is invoked) 11.42.55 # Gartral: What you're actually asking for is the ability to alter the main menu, a different concept entirely. 11.43.32 # well, n anycase, is it possible? 11.44.10 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.) 11.44.11 # Has the build system gone wonky? 11.44.23 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr) 11.45.00 # Gartral: Possible yes, likely to happen probably not. 11.46.13 # why? if rockbox had that kind of funtionallity, it would greatly expand usability, and user base 11.46.16 # amiconn: I wonder what the deal was then 11.48.26 # Bagder, I think the build system needs poking. 11.48.42 Join moos [0] (i=moos@m170.net81-66-158.noos.fr) 11.49.18 # safetydan: I'll try the fix for 8826 right away 11.49.40 # Gartral: Rockbox is designed as a music playback software. Adding function shortcuts to the main menu doesn't really improve that functionality much at all, if any really. 11.49.54 # It also creates undesired support and complexity overhead. 11.49.55 # bertrik, oh hi, didn't see you there. I don't know if what I committed is actually a fix however. But please do test. 11.54.15 Quit BHSPitLappy (Remote closed the connection) 11.54.16 # but it would, say a user wanter quicker access to a subdirectory, instead of having to rebuild rockbox too there own specs, they could just add it too the shortcuts file, where it would be parsed and added to the mainmenu 11.55.42 # Gartral: They could also just put a shortcut to it in the root of the filesystem. It takes just a couple extra button presses, but doesn't require any added code complexity. 11.57.52 # If you want to be organised about it, you could create a shortcuts folder. That way it would be three clicks to any shortcut. Files -> Shortcuts -> Shortcut... 11.58.46 # safetydan: I don't know how the paths are coded in the .rock, but you could probably also juts move *it* to the root 11.59.28 # but the whole point of rockbox is too make the user experience as streamlined and smooth as possible, and i know a large number of people who would really like access too there favorite places in ther drives without haveing to go through menu after menu too get to it, by saying "its only a few more clicks" your not only self contradicting, you sound like every corporation in america, asking its users too ive wi 12.00.03 # I wouldnt want the shortcuts in the main menu, but I wouldnt be against having a shorcut to the shorcuts plugin in the menu 12.00.05 # and if you set the file browser as start screen 12.00.08 Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) 12.00.14 # Gartral: We don't demand users live with our choices. The source code is made freely available to them. 12.00.39 # safetydan: your fix in 16888 seems to work fine, however I just ran into a data abort :( 12.00.44 # Gartral: And "the whole point of Rockbox" is to be the best _music player_ it can be. 12.01.04 # * JdGordon thought it was to play doom on every DAP ever made? 12.01.11 # but honestly, i live in lakewood ohio, AKA Flakewood, named for the gay pop. and the amoun people who want things to work without having to understand them 12.01.15 # the data abort may be the one that Buschel is chasing right now 12.01.23 # bertrik, interesting. What were you doing at the time? 12.01.50 # JdGordon: I think a more general solution would be to have a "user folder" of some sort from the main menu, which can contain .link files, .cfgs, .m3us... It's almost like having a customizable menu one level off the main, but not quite. 12.01.59 # bertrik: can you give details about the data abort? 12.02.02 # not exactly sure anymore, sorry. I was skipping forward and enabling/disabling eq 12.02.12 # Llorean: I'd be happy with that also 12.02.23 # thats a fair trade off 12.03.12 # Buschel: it says "Data abort at 0000850C (0)" 12.03.34 # * JdGordon joins in the wondergin whast up with the builds... 12.04.09 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 12.04.35 # Buschel: according to the .map file and arm-elf-addr2line, that's in buffering.c, function add_handle 12.04.45 # Gartral: But please, never try to use the "you should do what the users want" argument. The users aren't doing the work, the developers are. It's their free time that goes into this project, so they're going to decide the direction. 12.05.06 # betrik: hmm, that's not the data abort i worked on 12.05.08 # Sometimes it'll be the same as what the users want, sometimes it won't. But the users get it for free, nobody had to give it away. And the users have the source, if they really want change badly enough. 12.05.20 # i wasnt asking you follow what i say, i was stating my argument 12.05.34 # bertrik, Buschel, it's possible that switching in and out of low latency mode a lot might be problematic 12.05.57 # Gartral: One of your "arguments" was that it would expand user base... 12.06.58 # wich it would 12.08.01 # And my point was "users want it" isn't a particularly good argument here. You haven't done any polling, in the first place, and in the second "what developers prefer" almost always trumps it. That's all I was trying to say. 12.09.43 # ok, and thats a fair argument, witch i answer with another: saying what you said; what makes you, in your place, any better than the corporations that designed the dap your trying to open? 12.10.01 # daps* 12.10.17 # Gartral: We release the source code, so that anyone who is unhappy with our choices can make their own. I've already said that. 12.10.27 # Gartral: we never said we are... 12.11.27 # JdGordon: I did, and still do. We don't force our opinions on the users. They can choose to use our software, or they can choose to put in the same effort to modify it. It's not like modifying it came free to your or me either, we had to learn the skills in much the same way a user would have to. 12.11.47 # But if they're getting it for free, and they're voluntarily using it, I don't see them as being "forced" in any way. 12.12.04 # we _Are_ forcing our opinions on users though 12.12.14 # the fact we give them more options doesnt mean we arnt 12.12.20 Join nplus [0] (n=nplus@141.25.globcom.net) 12.12.27 # the majority arnt compiniling their own builds 12.12.42 # JdGordon: How is that forced though? They have absolute freedom to compile their own builds. 12.13.02 # Where, at any point, do we remove their ability to choose? 12.13.34 # only the ones which have the skill can do anything different in their custom builds... 12.14.10 # JdGordon: And? What does that have to do with it. You had to learn how to code before you could make your choices. They have to learn how to code before they can make theirs. I still don't see them as being treated at all unfairly or with force. 12.15.03 # Buschel, safetydan: I'll try the data abort with 16890 12.15.12 # Arg, whatever.. its a moot point anyway... we know we do this for us and not users... 12.15.36 # 3rd time lucky with the builds? 12.15.42 # bertrik, I just spent about five minutes switching in and out of the equalizer settings and didn't see a data abort. This is on a H120 though 12.16.07 Join damunix [0] (n=damunix@brc29-1-82-245-194-55.fbx.proxad.net) 12.17.00 # safetydan: yeah, it's kinda hard to reproduce, I'll keep this setting for the next few days and see if it happens again 12.18.43 # i love rockbox, i just wish the devs where a little more public friendly 12.18.47 Join handmadematters [0] (n=handmade@dslb-084-056-206-006.pools.arcor-ip.net) 12.20.04 # hi 12.21.08 # Just followed the IRC while drinking my coffee... and think its the right moment to say "I am very thankful to the developers... and dont understand the whole thing discussed here... Rockbox is constantly improving and all deciciosions seemed to me logical steps... one by one... ANY WAY GOOOOOD MORNING ;-)" 12.22.17 # * JdGordon takes handmadematters's coffee away.... no more caffeenee for you till lunch! 12.22.32 # ;-) 12.22.55 # true, rockbox rocks, i am thankfull for its devs, i just simpl wish they were more open too ideas passed too them from the public 12.23.31 # there's lots of different ideas and only so many developers 12.23.48 # * Gartral walks by JdGordon and steals handmadematters coffee back too give to him 12.24.02 # I missed the start of this particular one... but a fair bit of it is how the idea is brought forward... we usually are fairly nice with new ideas... 12.24.23 # not so nice when the person thinks its new but its just been regurgitated from a few weeks ago 12.25.15 # mm, im new too using rockbox, so excuse me if im not completely up too speed 12.26.30 # jhMikeS: wanna reply to the dev ml gsoc question thread about your idea for the software mixer thingy for playback? he sounds like someone who might have what it takes... 12.28.24 # where's that? 12.29.03 # Gartral: Your idea has been discussed on and off for years. It's not an issue of "being less open", it's an issue of "it's been talked about ALOT already", and you're hearing 'we've made up our minds before' as a new rejection, rather than the fact that we did talk about it, for a long time, first. 12.29.14 # Gartral: No matter how open you are, you have to reject *some* ideas. 12.29.31 # never mind - typing and carrying on a conversation with someone makes me not notice "dev ml" :p 12.30.02 # this is true, i didnt relise this is something that was descussed before 12.30.49 # i though it was a fresher idea, since something so powerful didnt have a feature i think would be common sens to include 12.32.13 Join mf0102 [0] (n=michi@85.127.182.33) 12.35.47 # JdGordon: sounds like more like a person up to designing a high quality resampler 12.39.06 Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@84-51-130-71.judith186.adsl.metronet.co.uk) 12.43.21 Join ch4os_ [0] (n=ch4os@unaffiliated/ch4os/x-059673) 12.43.43 Quit handmadematters () 12.43.54 Join DefineByte [0] (n=defineby@bb-87-81-195-5.ukonline.co.uk) 12.48.29 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) 12.49.08 Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@84-51-130-71.judith186.adsl.metronet.co.uk) 12.49.43 Join gregzx [0] (n=chatzill@dtk100.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) 12.51.39 Join baobab68 [0] (n=792c1b84@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-44d39488786cccf3) 12.52.57 # Any peeps involved with the manual willing to commit FS#8715? 12.53.32 Quit safetydan ("Leaving") 12.53.37 Quit miepchen^schlaf () 12.54.09 Quit baobab68 (Client Quit) 12.54.17 Join webguest00 [0] (n=792c1b84@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-147f8766ece38af0) 12.55.48 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=miepchen@p54BF6E90.dip.t-dialin.net) 12.57.50 Join baobab68 [0] (n=792c1b84@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-7d4726de1721ed59) 12.58.29 # hi all 12.58.37 Join amiconn [50] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) 12.58.56 # hi :) 12.59.39 # jhMikeS: you about? i've been recommended to come discuss thread priorities with you 12.59.46 Quit webguest00 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") 13.00.07 # baobab68: sure 13.00.47 # well i am yet to try the latest builds but the SVN activity reported on the main page sounds promising. 13.01.22 # i am using an H320 and for some time now, with various daily builds, there has been a conflict between various activities during startup 13.01.56 # what do you mean by "conflict"? 13.02.35 # if resume playback is turned on, the buffering thread and dircache and the buffering the database to RAM all thrash the disk and CPU. Thing is, I'm pretty sure they didn't used to, once upon a time... 13.03.12 # eg, with resume playback, dircache of 9500 tracks takes 35+ seconds. without resume playback, 4 seconds. 13.04.07 # i just turned off resume playback, as i figure it amounts to less disk activity if I just let the dircache and database get themselves done, and then resume playback manually 13.04.22 # dircache is a background activity and playback gets priority (and more CPU cycles) that than 13.04.32 # *than that 13.05.27 # is that new with your recent commits? (ie, I should try a more recent build?) 13.06.05 # no, it's been that way since priorities were first introduced 13.07.00 # ok. it all sort of feels related to this thread too: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=15875.0 13.08.15 # Hi. I would like to have more informations about the summer of code project, is there any "mentor" ? 13.08.40 # to me, it feels like things "changed" when the ring buffer and metadata on buffer came in. (which I totally looked forward to so much when they were announced) 13.08.43 # damunix: there are several 13.08.47 # :) 13.09.02 # I see a post on dlfp (french website) 13.09.25 # damunix: you submit your idea of project and how to do it and you will get two mentors assigned from rockbox, should we decide your project is fine enough 13.10.02 # do you know if lots of student send ideas ? 13.10.06 # * petur wonders if anybody is going to answer the application question on the ML 13.10.09 # btw, we got another "mobile app" application 13.10.40 # * Bagder intends to reply 13.10.45 # damunix: Could you send me a link? I don't see the post 13.11.33 # of ? 13.11.39 # baobab68: The playback engine needs a good service call and it's sensitive to timing changes in that changing some scheduling aspect results in different outcomes. That really shouldn't be the case but unfortunately it is right now. 13.11.55 # damunix: currently we have 6 application submitted 13.12.03 # damunix: The article on dlfp 13.12.13 # last year we had 20 when the application period ended 13.12.15 # http://linuxfr.org/2008/03/30/23915.html 13.12.21 # merci 13.12.48 # pleasure 13.12.57 # jhMikeS: thank you for the info. i am hoping that the scheduler changes you have made are going to help, bit by bit. would it be possible for playback to yield totally for the first 10 seconds or something? :-) 13.13.11 # I know most ppl wouldn't want that. 13.13.23 # BigBambi: well posted by Nico_P ;) 13.13.28 # yep :) 13.17.52 # baobab68: playback is meant to start playing as soon as asked. that would be more of a "resume delay". 13.21.05 Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) 13.23.35 # Bagder: nice answer to ML, even if you miss to invite him here to speak with dsp men preglow, jhMikeS... 13.23.41 # ;) 13.25.17 Quit bertrik ("bye") 13.29.18 # * jhMikeS wrote a response but sent it to JdGordon first (since I suck at being an organization's front-end and he asked me to reply :p). Was more of a specific suggestion if that's even appropriate to do. 13.30.25 # I just replied to your email btw.. 13.30.26 # hehe :) 13.31.37 # jhMikeS: thanks for the feedback, will keep an eye on things as the commits progress. 13.32.12 # JdGordon: guess I'll post it...why not...sounds dry enough. :) 13.32.26 # wont do any harm 13.33.01 Quit Buschel () 13.34.38 # Bagder: just a question : do you have the link where I can submit my ideas ? 13.38.04 Quit baobab68 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") 13.41.16 Join Cazou [0] (n=detlev@51.65-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) 13.42.45 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection) 13.46.01 Join bughunter2 [0] (n=Administ@ip565fbeaa.direct-adsl.nl) 13.52.12 Join sgiani [0] (n=823c8845@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-dea7c475a316fa23) 13.54.02 Quit sgiani (Client Quit) 13.54.06 Join sgiani [0] (n=823c8845@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-3b2d8de29e0e671b) 13.55.41 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.) 13.55.47 Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 13.56.54 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.) 13.57.05 Join XavierGr [0] (n=xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr) 14.00.40 Quit sgiani ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 14.03.56 Join Chipsaru [0] (n=chips_ru@193.138.147.102) 14.04.06 # damunix: You could post to the developers mailing list, or discuss in here I guess 14.04.14 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 14.04.35 # damunix: http://www.rockbox.org/mail/ 14.04.44 Join goffa [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) 14.05.58 Quit DefineByte (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14.06.26 Join domonoky [0] (n=Domonoky@rockbox/developer/domonoky) 14.07.11 Join sgiani [0] (n=823c8845@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-b30669054e325bb0) 14.07.22 Quit sgiani (Client Quit) 14.07.32 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") 14.07.48 Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) 14.10.35 Join DerPapst [0] (n=DerPapst@p5B23DD3D.dip.t-dialin.net) 14.10.53 # I recall that misaligned reads&writes on linux for Arm generate a signal that gets handled by the kernel (I think) to silently round the addresses appropriately, and you get an output in dmesg too. Does rockbox have any such issues or are all pointer indirections required to be correctly aligned? 14.14.06 # Pointers must be correctly aligned on ARM and SH, as required by those architectures 14.15.33 # Unaligned pointers are a bug, and it's not the duty of the kernel to work around such bugs. If it would silently align the address, it would access the wrong data 14.15.35 # If they're not aligned, will rockbox just throw an exception? 14.15.44 # yes 14.15.48 # ok 14.16.31 Quit kushal_12_27_200 ("Leaving") 14.17.09 # Coldfire does allow unaligned accesses, and they work as normal, the only penalty being some extra cycles (1 or 2, depending on the width of the access and the type of misalignment) 14.18.55 # Can someone explain me what exactly is an "misaligned" access? 14.19.10 # Pointing me to an URL if needed; I know concepts of pointers and memory addressing. 14.19.21 # amiconn - in that case presumably we don't have much code in rockbox that requires unaligned accesses since it would fail to run on arm targets 14.19.42 Quit goffa_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14.20.18 # Well, the database uses this. There is a separate macro (something with STRICT_ALIGN). If that's not defined, the database packs its structs as tight as possible, saving RAM 14.20.49 # stripwax: gcc takes care of it most of the time (by aligning things). The issues are things like accessing a char array as int, in which case the char array must be aligned to 4 bytes. 14.20.59 # mrkiko - e.g. *(unsigned long *)(0x01234567) - where address is not a multiple of the data size 14.21.44 # linuxstb: It's also an issue if a struct uses __attribute__((packed)) 14.21.45 # ah ok 14.21.48 # clear 14.21.53 # Some usb structs do this 14.21.58 # Thank you! 14.22.12 # linuxstb - that's the sort of thing I had in mind. I *think* the linux kernel still lets you do that unaligned, by rounding the addresses (and doing multiple reads/writes and shifting as appropriate) but there's obviously a hit for that. Was hoping rockbox has no such nonsense 14.23.05 Join hannesd [0] (n=light@p5B160A9D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 14.27.26 # (and it sounds like it does not have any such automatic fixups, so that's cool). There's no penalty being hidden, basically 14.28.11 Quit damunix ("Ex-Chat") 14.28.56 # jhMikeS: you got a bite :) 14.30.31 # :) 14.31.07 # Why can't I find voice files where they have been in the daily build section? 14.31.45 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") 14.32.07 Join stripwax [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) 14.35.22 # QQ: whats the status of the new usb stacks for controlling the internal memory? 14.37.46 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) 14.38.08 # Gartral: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PortalPlayerUsb 14.39.36 # Can someone send me the voice files url? 14.40.25 # mrkiko: I think it's currently broken... 14.41.55 # if you follow the "old" link below the target, there is still a download link for the english.voice. 14.42.18 # thats not much help, i was asking about the redyness of the (if existent) possible fixes? 14.42.19 # jup, voice download seems to be broken, but you can generate a voicefile yourself with rbutil or the build enviroment.. 14.43.11 # Gartral: it's ready but it has some major issues as the page stated. 14.45.24 Join csc` [0] (n=csc@archlinux/user/csc) 14.47.21 Quit Gartral ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") 14.48.47 Join Gartral [0] (n=4b214de8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-bf6d4f12c079e154) 14.49.06 # right, as for the readyness OF SAID BUGFIXES 14.49.19 # oops, sorry about caps 14.49.20 # there aren'T any. 14.49.57 # if there were, they would heve been included in SVN and removed from the wiki page. 14.50.04 # whats with the big chain of gobbledy gook at the login on this channel? 14.51.02 Join MethoS [0] (n=clemens@host-091-096-213-218.ewe-ip-backbone.de) 14.51.11 # you mean the topic? 14.51.17 # what about it? 14.52.35 Join framo [0] (n=framo@bb-87-80-66-156.ukonline.co.uk) 14.52.55 Join mimimati [0] (n=mimimati@laf31-4-82-229-231-80.fbx.proxad.net) 14.55.10 # * domonoky sees now 2 useable gsoc applications for rockbox (out of 8 applications) .. 14.55.22 # 8 already... 14.55.27 # [08:48] *** Gartral csc` stripwax hannesd DerPapst domonoky goffa Chipsaru XavierGr jhMikeS bughunter2 Cazou amiconn miepchen^schlaf gregzx Thundercloud ch4os_ mf0102 nplus moos PaulJam petur FOAD Lear pixelma lee-qid Horscht ender` ompaul davina Zarggg_ Rob2223 hd tedrock InHisName DerDome SirFunk Pio__ mokkurkalve BumAz cbr|w fyre^OS mrkiko linuxstb_ linuxstb axionix preglow nikosapi TaylorKillian Nevtus Raven 14.55.33 # noo... after the topic 14.55.41 # ? 14.55.46 # * DerPapst missed some 14.55.46 # Gartral: what? 14.55.50 # lol 14.55.59 # scroll all the way up, youll see it 14.56.08 # ? 14.56.10 # Gartral: thats your irc client telling you whos is online.. and you awakend now the hole channel.. :-) 14.56.15 # sounds like your client is showing you all the connected nicks 14.56.16 # Gartral: the web client lists all users online 14.56.18 # Hey, wassup :P 14.56.18 # that's the "members list" compare to the list on the right 14.56.23 # thats what im asking, what does it all mean? its at the top of your channel, not mine 14.56.32 # ahh 14.56.33 # no it's not, it's your IRC client 14.56.39 # no, it's on top of your client, not our chan 14.56.59 # that explains why theres not one sensible english word in there 14.57.15 # it's the nicknames of who is online 14.57.16 # domonoky: what is the 2nd usefull app? 14.57.23 # if you don't undrstand your IRC client, then ask them, not us 14.57.35 # or use something which gives you a more fuzzy and warm feeling 14.57.38 # im useing your webclient, so yes, its at the top of your channel, in your client, not mine 14.57.56 # alright i stop feeding this troll 14.57.57 # real audio support... but the student needs to put more info in the app, but this is better than rfid freigh trackning with rockbox :-) 14.58.19 # im sorry, im not in a good mood 14.58.20 # ;-) 14.58.48 # * Gartral gestures too shake bughunter2's hand 14.59.03 # * bughunter2 gives Gartral a handshake and says "We're friends again." 14.59.05 # lol 14.59.12 # * Horscht stabs both 14.59.15 # ahhaha 14.59.18 # * DerPapst runs out of milestones :-/ 14.59.35 # * Gartral bites Horscht 14.59.47 # * DerPapst goes to buy some new milestones 14.59.52 # great now I am a werewolf 15.00.05 # no, your a kitsune 15.00.22 # Horscht, Gartral please stay on topic :-) 15.00.32 # NO! lol 15.01.28 # tw, why was i disconnected earlyer? 15.01.44 # btw* 15.02.01 # bad connection? maybe your isp hates you. 15.02.05 Join piga [0] (n=leonardo@200-161-98-93.dsl.telesp.net.br) 15.02.07 # like mine does. 15.02.17 # whos your isp? 15.02.21 # web-based clients are problematic... 15.02.39 # this is one of the better ones for shure though 15.04.20 # * DerPapst thinks he might be done with his app proposal. Let's review and spellcheck :-) 15.06.55 Join MethoS- [0] (n=clemens@host-091-096-213-218.ewe-ip-backbone.de) 15.07.37 # how hard would it be too implement a built in (or build a host computer based/addin to rbutil) audio transcoder? 15.08.30 # Gartral: why would you need this ? rockbox plays nearly all audio codecs .. 15.09.23 # for the porpus of killing the mp3 corporate built codec 15.09.26 # and besides. i like my ogg vornis 15.09.36 # vorbis* 15.09.40 # Transcoding kills quality anyway. 15.09.50 # There are many PC side encoders/transcoders already, and as for Rockbox side, a) Rockbox already plays a huge number - and would need to be able to play any it could transcode, and b) it would be very slow compared to on a PC 15.09.56 # transcoding from one lossy format to another is bad. 15.10.16 # not just bad, also pointless 15.10.28 # And yes, lossy to lossy reduces quality a lot 15.10.38 # especially if you're doing it on a portable 15.11.04 # BigBambi: he suggested rbutil, so this is PC, but i dont see much use in it, as there are many audio transcoders out there, and it isnt a rb specific task.. 15.11.24 # domonoky: He suggested both 15.11.27 # yes, but there are those of us (who for whatever reason) never had/lost there original cds, and all there songs were encoded into a drm encryppled codec, and we dont like drm encrypplment 15.11.31 Join lee-qid_ [0] (n=liqid@p54964B83.dip.t-dialin.net) 15.11.52 # domonoky: how hard would it be too implement a built in (or build a host computer based/addin to rbutil) audio transcoder? 15.12.11 Quit lee-qid (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15.12.20 # domonoky: But I agree, both are pointless and not Rockbox specific 15.12.28 # having one right in rbutil would be nice though 15.12.50 # Rockbox doesn't support drm. This is both a requirement, and a philosophy. 15.12.56 # ah, now i see... yes its pointless, just use on of those thousands audio transcoders out there :-) 15.13.12 # yup :) 15.14.10 # but none handle DRMed media to non drm 15.14.15 Join MethoS-- [0] (n=clemens@host-091-096-212-161.ewe-ip-backbone.de) 15.14.32 # im asking for one the deDRMs a file 15.14.45 # Gartral: And nor would we, even if (a very big if) there were to be a Rockbox transcoder 15.14.54 # Gartral: And that is off topic 15.15.11 # Gartral: Rockbox doesn't support drm. This is both a requirement, and a philosophy. 15.15.12 # Gartral: rbutil wouldn't be able to handle DRM content either because it's open source 15.15.28 # not so long ago, amiconn made astatement about drm... i think it was about 2 minutes ago :P 15.15.47 # RIGHT THATS WHY I WANT A TRANSCODER THAT REMOVES DRM RULES FROM A FREAKING FILE 15.16.01 # Which we will NOT do 15.16.13 # Gartral: this channel is not the right place to ask such things.. 15.16.13 # So stop being off topic and take it somewhere else 15.16.25 # ok, do you know of wher i can get one?\ 15.16.28 # NO 15.16.40 # ok, im sorry i asked 15.16.43 # Gartral: This channel is for Rockbox only 15.17.07 # removing DRM is not legal in many countries 15.17.51 # neither is hacking an xbox, but that never truley stoped anyone 15.17.58 # there are windows tools, afaik, but I don't realy care. I don't like or use DRM 15.18.17 # Look, this isn't on-topic for here, lets drop it 15.18.34 # right, neither do i, but i have a lot of files that are drmed, because my parents dont know any better 15.19.07 # well then, use google 15.19.13 # Horscht: Drop it 15.20.14 # ok 15.20.21 Quit MethoS (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 15.20.34 # 8 gsoc proposals 15.20.47 # 1 good one :'( 15.20.55 # i thought 2 15.20.59 # Bagder: What are the latest? 15.21.02 # Bagder: Don't we have one or two in the wings still? People who haven't filed formally? 15.21.04 # the theme editor and the rm codec 15.21.11 # Llorean: yes 15.21.24 # and it seems there's an extension coming up 15.21.29 # Hopefully 15.21.46 # There were a few very good reasons for not extending it, too. Summer jobs and all that. 15.22.09 # yes 15.22.33 Join Nico_P [50] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP) 15.22.44 # yes, i think there are at least 2 or 3 applications still in work :-) 15.22.53 # * DerPapst hopes the dsp guy is hurrying up 15.23.01 # * Llorean was really rooting on as-an-app turning up. 15.23.21 # * amiconn would deem a good resampler much more important than a theme editor 15.23.41 # * Gartral agrees 15.23.51 # Nico_P: See there was already someone here after your dlfp post? :) 15.24.00 # amiconn: I'd like to see both 15.24.28 # BigBambi: really? I'll read the logs 15.24.30 # * JdGordon has no idea what the resampler does, but all those big words in jhMikeS' reply sounds good ! :p 15.24.41 # both would be nice, but i wouldnt complain if the resampler hit public four months eearlier than the theme editor 15.25.03 # The current resampler is plain crap at low input sample rates 15.25.08 # Nico_P: about 13.08 CET 15.25.15 # * Llorean has no idea how much actual work goes into a good resampler. 15.25.36 # about 9-12 months of man hours 15.25.39 # * DerPapst finishis his app today to convice google rockbox needs more slots, even if his isn't chosen at the end :-) 15.25.56 # ah, found it :) 15.26.17 Join bluebrother [0] (n=dom@rockbox/staff/bluebrother) 15.27.36 # Bagder: do you have an idea why there are no "voice" links on the "daily build and voices" page? 15.27.57 Join bertrik [0] (n=Bertrik_@182-015-045-062.dynamic.caiway.nl) 15.28.04 # hm, I better check 15.28.22 # Gartral: In that case it seems far too large of a project for a SoC app. But somehow I don't think you were serious, and suggest you remember this is an on-topic channel. 15.28.50 # ok, other than there being nogcc compiler for it, why was the ipod shuffles left out of rockbox development? 15.29.01 # That is a pretty major reason 15.29.18 # What is the point of writing code if you can't compile and therefore run it? 15.29.21 # Gartral: how would you write code without a compiler ? 15.29.36 # In asm.... 15.29.43 # heh] 15.29.44 # you can.. build a compiler yourself? 15.29.47 # write binrary 15.29.56 # Gartral: Feel free 15.29.58 # that too 15.30.12 # Gartral: go for it, it will be only 6-12 Months :-) 15.30.13 # 15.30.18 # if someone would donate there shuffle, ide be glad too 15.30.25 # Hi 15.30.32 # Gartral: Rockbox is ported by interested owners, not by a team 15.30.44 # Gartral: if we'd think you could do it, we'd buy one for you... 15.30.58 # what environment would you advice to build rockbox on linux ? 15.31.01 # and how do you know that i can't? 15.31.08 # Cazou: Native 15.31.19 # Cazou: You just need to build the cross compilers 15.31.21 # Cazou: sunny sky, perhaps trees ;) 15.31.26 Quit MethoS- (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 15.31.33 # Cazou: For which there is a handy script in the source 15.31.38 # Gartral: because you haven't shown us anything that would make at least me believe that 15.32.18 Quit Gartral ("CGI:IRC") 15.32.26 Join Gartral [0] (n=4b214de8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-e1c6cbb334cb607e) 15.32.50 # I'm on gentoo, I cross compiled gcc for arm 15.32.50 # Cazou: most uncomplicated build system ever, you find the 2documentation" in the toos/ folder of the svn 15.33.10 # but it's version 4.3.0 15.33.17 # Cazou: Rockbox requires (well, recommends certian versions) of the cross compiler for each architecture 15.33.19 # Cazou: you really shouldn't go that path 15.33.48 # isn't the fact that the shuffles don't have a display also a major reason why they are left out? 15.33.50 # Cazou: just run that rockboxdev.sh script in the tools folder, it will build you the correct compilers. 15.33.56 # Cazou: The rockboxdev script will get you recommended versions, install recquired patches etc 15.34.10 # Horscht: well, we have a voice ui so it could still be working on it 15.34.11 Join madhatter_ [0] (n=madhatte@APoitiers-259-1-34-113.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr) 15.34.19 # Horscht: on the contrary... they would prove how good our voice ui is 15.34.22 # ok, thank you 15.34.51 # At least the M3 doesn't have a main LCD. Only an LCD remote. 15.35.18 # ah, the voice ui. admitedly, I was impressed to see that rockbox has something like that, but also turned it off after 1 Minute of trying it 15.35.24 # Horsch: are you awear that trying to tab the rest of your name fails? 15.35.42 # Horscht 15.35.44 # meh 15.35.49 # i hate my return button 15.35.51 # Gartral: With the CGI client you need to use the first letter only then complete 15.35.52 # it would be a massive PITA to actually get rockbox to compile for no lcd though 15.35.55 # Gartral: again you client.. :-) 15.36.10 # ahh 15.36.14 # also, I own an Archos 404, will it ever be supported ? 15.36.16 # Gartral: It works fine for every nick with a proper client 15.36.24 # Cazou: if you make the port it could! 15.36.28 # Cazou: only if you port it.. :-) 15.36.34 # Cazou: If interested owners do it, sure 15.36.37 # hannesd: it gave me that name, out of H 15.36.52 # what is the cheapest player that rockbox could run on (e.g. PP502x based) but that has no rockbox port yet? 15.36.56 # ok, let's gsoc before ;) 15.37.13 # that seems to be a too big project for gsoc 15.37.30 # but I'm interrested in the scummVM project 15.37.41 # bertrik: probably one of the PP ones on the mi4 page but you would of course need to hunt down a used one 15.37.49 # i know the cheapest i can get a sansa e200 is $30 15.37.53 # Gartral: in the webclient it only works with the first letter followed by multiple tab, so it would be H... until the right nick pops up 15.37.57 # Gartral: the client cycles if you hit tab multiple times ... it only requires you to type only the first character 15.38.02 # porting to a new player is a bit big and risky project for gsoc .. 15.38.07 # pixelma: I already beat you :P 15.38.40 # BigBambi: wouldn't understand your explanation .p 15.38.46 # err... :P 15.38.49 # ahh 15.38.51 # domonoky: indeed, but to one the mi4 based PP targets it is somewhat smaller 15.38.55 # domonoky: that's what I thought 15.39.07 # * pixelma blames keyboard (especially that damn shift key) 15.39.13 # pixelma: meh, perfectly clear :) 15.39.37 # * bluebrother hands pixelma a shift key 15.40.20 # but isn't porting, not for gsoc, a risk to brick the Archos ? 15.40.24 # so when is there going to be a calender for DAPs that have a RTC? 15.40.26 Nick JdGordon is now known as JdGordon|zzz (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) 15.40.43 # is there any jtag port to reprogram it ? 15.40.59 # I open it tonight \o/ 15.41.11 # Cazou: that would be something you'd have to figure out. 15.41.18 # Gartral: when you code it :-) 15.41.19 # Gartral: When someone writes one that works on all appropriate targets 15.41.21 # Cazou: that completely depends on the player. The Ipods f.e. are almost unbrickable 15.41.26 # Gartral: the sansa e200 (at least the V1) is already ported 15.41.33 # and we're now down to 7 applications... 15.41.34 # (unless you program the hardware to burn itself of course ;-) 15.41.47 # Bagder: rejected one? 15.42.09 # i would if i wasnt reduced too using libray comps to cude on 15.42.18 # bertrik: Maybe you could pick up the Elio port (including the Elio) from linuxstb? 15.42.22 # it seems he withdrew it himself 15.42.24 # * domonoky clicked the ineglible button on the rfid one.. :-) 15.42.39 # ah yes that's the one 15.42.41 # Ok, I'll try to figure it out tonight 15.42.41 Quit Gartral ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 15.42.56 # it just sorted under ineglible instead of open.. 15.43.08 # and waht do i do with my rfid sickers now? 15.43.14 # if it's not too risky, I'll be part of the project with certitude. 15.43.15 # what rfid thing= 15.43.23 # DerPapst: track freight :-) 15.43.33 # hi, I'm about to receive an ipod touch and I'm interested in porting rockbox on it. Is some work had begin ? Where I can find it ? 15.43.55 # madhatter_: Check out the thread in the New Ports forum 15.44.03 # ok thanks ;) 15.44.29 # that would be an rockbox as app approach... 15.45.03 Join gevaerts [0] (n=fg@195-144-092-164.dyn.adsl.xs4all.be) 15.45.15 # morning gevaerts :-) 15.45.17 # bye the way, I saw on linux-fr that you were looking for student, if I apply tonight, wouldn't it be too late ? 15.45.24 Quit piga (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15.45.32 # It would be for scummVM port 15.45.34 # Cazou: you have till the 31st of march 15.45.38 # nope not to late 15.45.39 # morning DerPapst :) 15.45.48 # Cazou: go for it.. 15.46.00 # ScummVM on my DAP: awesomeness 15.46.06 # yes but some organization do not like it when it comes 1 day before the end 15.46.17 # Well the earlier the better 15.46.17 # rockbox always needs more apps ;-) 15.46.20 # ScummVM is C++ afaik 15.46.24 # ok, I'll work on it so 15.46.31 # so it'll present some challenges 15.46.33 # More time for feedback from the mentors etc 15.46.34 # those organizations probably have to deal with a big ammount of apps 15.46.47 # Cazou: ofcourse we would like to have the apps early, but we still need more.. so go for it and apply.. 15.46.53 Join piga [0] (n=leonardo@200-161-96-35.dsl.telesp.net.br) 15.46.57 # yes, I got that info from KDE 15.47.16 # "00:00 UTC April 1, 2008" is the deadline actually 15.47.36 # I never get UTC 15.48.06 # yeah well, at google's, it changes often 15.49.40 # All LCD remotes are greyscale aren't they? 15.49.58 # some are single bitmap 15.50.00 # DerPapst: yes, till now .. :-) 15.50.09 # oh, Zulu time 15.50.09 # I hope I'll have enough time to discover rockbox sources and see how it can be done. 15.50.15 # Are not the iriver ones monochrome? 15.50.16 # why didn't you say so :p 15.50.45 # * DerPapst goes verifying 15.51.37 # BigBambi: at least the h100 remote is. 15.51.48 # it's the same one they use for the h300 15.51.50 # yes. all iriver remotes are monorome 15.51.52 # That means H30o too 15.52.16 # only the iaudio have 4 shades 15.55.05 Quit hannesd (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 15.56.55 Quit DerPapst (Nick collision from services.) 15.57.04 Join DerPapst [0] (n=DerPapst@p5B23F422.dip.t-dialin.net) 15.57.08 Quit lee-qid_ ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara") 15.57.08 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.) 15.57.14 Join jhMikeS [50] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) 15.59.40 # amiconn: I feel that if someone gives me a player to port, I have to really commit to it and I can't promise that (due to day job + other fun hack projects). 16.00.33 # I'll have a closer look at the new ports forum and the mi4 list on bagder's page 16.02.26 # I received an email reply from the "usablity study" guy who contacted some mentors by mail. He seems not to have CCed the others any more. Should I forward this to -dev, to -committers, or to all mentors individually ? I can of course just reply and ask to put an application on google... 16.04.01 Quit PaulJam (".") 16.04.18 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 16.04.54 # forward it to rockbox-commiters should be good, all mentors should be commitors.. 16.05.17 # OK 16.05.48 # and ofcourse the student should just apply... the more applications rockbox gets, the more slots we get :-) 16.06.27 # * gevaerts now notices that he did cc some mentors. Forwarding anyway, since they are not all there 16.11.23 Join bluebroth3r [0] (n=dom@f053153164.adsl.alicedsl.de) 16.12.29 Join rotator [0] (n=e@rockbox/developer/rotator) 16.12.47 # domonoky: iirc GodEater is a mentor but not a commiter. Not sure if he's in the -committers mailinglist though. 16.13.27 # * domonoky didnt knew that... 16.13.36 # HA! :-P 16.13.37 Join lee-qid [0] (n=liqid@p54964949.dip.t-dialin.net) 16.13.39 # how much application do you have so far ? 16.13.48 # 8 16.14.00 Join kugel [0] (i=kugel@unaffiliated/kugel) 16.14.04 # but only two usable ones i think.. :-) 16.14.06 # iirc last year 20 :-) 16.14.08 # DerPapst: in this case that's not too much of a problem, he is in the original CC list, so he knows about it 16.14.17 # and how much did you expect . 16.14.18 # ok :-) 16.14.18 # ? 16.14.29 # 100? 16.14.33 # ;-) 16.14.48 # Cazou: Last year was the first year so I don't think anyone knew what to expect 16.14.51 # * domonoky would like to see at the very least 4 usable one, but the more the better.. 16.16.41 # and what does it need to be "usable" ? 16.17.32 # it should be of use for rockbox, realistic, and with enough details, so we know you understand the project.. 16.17.37 # First of all, rockbox related. While this may sound obvious, apparently it isn't... 16.19.38 # I discovered rockbox with gsoc 16.19.44 # highscore or high score? i always though the former but it seems like spellcheckers tend to disagree. 16.19.58 # *thought 16.20.28 # Cazou: nice, do you have a rockboxable player ? 16.20.48 # unfortunatly no 16.21.03 # but there is a simulator, isn't there ? 16.21.15 # Yes 16.21.31 # But it depends on what you want to work on how useful that is 16.21.46 # yes, there is, but it is a simulator and not an emulator, so real traget expirience is mostly needed.. :-) 16.21.54 # Keep in mind it is a simulator not an emulator 16.22.34 # Of course, if someone gets busy in this year's gsoc, maybe there will be one next year... 16.23.01 # everything is cross-compiling, compiling, and installing, I'll see what is doable :) 16.23.06 # Cazou: but if you get accepted, you could of course buy a rockboxable player with the first money.. 16.23.08 # * DerPapst goes with "highscore" 16.23.27 # Cazou: rockboxable players can be quite cheap 16.24.52 Join domonok1 [0] (n=Domonoky@92.227.45.134) 16.25.00 # You could try getting one of those sansa c240s from that British offer via someone on the other side. It would work out at 20 to 30 euro 16.25.49 # I already have a player (not rockboxable), I don't want to buy another one... 16.26.09 # what's the difference between a simulator and an emulator ? 16.28.55 # Basically, a simulator shows the same behaviour to the user, while an emulator allows to run exactly the same software. Maybe an example would make this clearer, but I can't think of one... 16.29.02 Quit bluebrother (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16.29.11 Quit DerPapst (Nick collision from services.) 16.29.21 Join DerPapst [0] (n=DerPapst@p5B23E6AA.dip.t-dialin.net) 16.30.52 # I think the thin difference between between a simulator and an emulator is uninteresting for the most users 16.31.20 # It is vitally important 16.31.25 # kugel: we are talking in the gsoc context 16.31.31 # For developers, and that is who it is aimed at 16.31.44 # And the difference is not small 16.32.11 # with "most users" I excluded devs ;) 16.32.26 # So how is that relevant here? 16.32.56 # basically you can only use the sim to test ui things, hardware things and performace problems are only testable on target (or an emulator) 16.33.15 # Cazou: while I understand that you are happy with one player, GSoC is partly about getting developers who will stay with the project afterwards. If you don't own a rockbox-capable player that is unlikely. Also note that nobody is suggesting that you would buy it _now_, but I think that spending 1% of the GSoC money on a player is reasonable, if you are chosen 16.38.41 # gevaerts: I agree but if there is a way of doing this with a simulator or emulator, that could be usefull 16.39.08 # the initial work yes. the reast unlikely 16.39.16 # since there is no emulator yet. 16.39.30 # this is another suggested gsoc app 16.39.32 # whihch would be a GSoC project 16.39.42 # *proposed projectÃœ 16.39.53 # Of course, they allow for quicker testing if it's possible, but it really depends on what area you are working in. For instance, my USB work is not doable _at all_ on anything but real hardware 16.40.18 # DerPapst: that's exactly what I was thinking about 16.42.39 Join tedr0ck [0] (n=tedrock@d235-159-75.home1.cgocable.net) 16.43.15 Quit domonoky (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16.43.27 # jhMikeS: here? 16.45.48 # Cazou: are there any specific areas that you are interested in ? 16.48.38 Join spiorf [0] (n=spiorf@79.20.214.140) 16.49.05 # well, I'm interrested in embedded development but I'm discovering it, I have no experience in it 16.49.34 # I have experience in higher level development (Qt/KDE f.e.) 16.50.13 # well, yes. That applies to most of rockbox... But we have codecs, user interface, plugins (games,...),... Maybe you have some preference there 16.50.28 # USB... :) 16.51.09 # I won't suggest that right now. Just slightly too many unknowns... 16.51.22 # (i.e. one, but it's really unknown) 16.51.35 # I'm more into user interface, you know, see what has been done 16.51.46 # and scummVM was interresting 16.52.06 # If I were a student, I wouldn't like a project that might fail because of one unknown bit in a SoC register... 16.52.18 # indeed 16.53.53 # one unknown bit in a SoC register ? what do you mean ? 16.53.54 # scummVM is probably not easy, as you have to somehow integrate a c++ plugin into rockbox :-) also screensize and inputs could be problematic.. 16.54.28 # s/8/9 16.54.33 # :-) 16.54.51 # Cazou: isn't there archopen for the archos 404? 16.55.30 # * gevaerts finally read the logs completely, so he now knows that he asked some questions that were already answered before... 16.57.09 # Nico_P: you seem right :) 16.57.16 # I didn't know that project 16.57.32 # with their drivers I guess a rockbox port could be a tad easier 16.58.38 Quit DerPapst (Nick collision from services.) 16.58.49 Join DerPapst [0] (n=DerPapst@p5B23EF77.dip.t-dialin.net) 16.59.29 # * DerPapst hopes that makes it 2.5 usable apps. :-P 16.59.53 # and now it's time to hunt some food :-D 17.00.58 # with their drivers ? 17.01.09 # DerPapst: Yes, food :p 17.01.17 # Cazou: SoC = System-on-Chip. In this specific case, USB does not work properly yet because we need to do some unknown hardware setup 17.01.49 # Cazou: well I assume they've written drivers for the targets they support. These drivers can be reused by a Rockbox port 17.02.47 # * gevaerts accuses domonok1 of stealing a sentence from another GSoC application comment ;) 17.03.01 # :-) 17.03.31 # * domonok1 thought the comment was GPL :-) 17.03.47 # hehehe 17.04.18 # DerPapst: have you applied now? 17.04.31 # WTFPL 17.04.38 # * gevaerts grants domonok1 a perpetual and non-exclusive license to use that sentence :) 17.04.45 Quit tedrock (No route to host) 17.04.51 # thx :-) 17.05.05 # kugel: yes 17.05.21 # DerPapst: Cool. Looking forward to a new game! 17.05.52 # lets see if it gets accepted first :-P 17.06.24 # * DerPapst hopes JdGordon|zzz doesn't beat him for is english ;-) 17.06.33 Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) 17.06.39 # is english ? 17.06.42 # * kugel probably applies next year (if rockbox is accepted), when he's a student 17.07.37 # gevaerts: don't question DerPapst's typing - he visited too many typo classes (as he would say) :P 17.07.39 # DerPapst: the application sounds nice, but it could be not enough work for gsoc, depending on your coding skills.. :-) 17.08.24 # pixelma: I can't resist typos if the sentence is about correct language :) 17.08.43 # it's the keymaps and art work i'm more afraid of :-P 17.09.04 # domonok1: it's always possible to spend time on improving an AI 17.09.31 # sure, and yes artwork could take some time.. 17.09.50 # so i revert my optinion :-) 17.09.58 # especially on smaler monochrome LCDs 17.10.08 # DerPapst: I'd say port 2 games for 1 project, maybe that will increase your chance (of course 2 portable games in the meaning time) 17.10.38 # if i'll be too fast i might consider doing mastermind ;-) 17.11.01 # hehe :), added this in your paper? 17.11.08 # but that is waaaaays to easy for a gsoc app. 17.11.09 # nope 17.12.02 # I would suggest to port http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/puzzles/ instead of doing mastermind. It's in there, and this thing is designed to be simple and portable 17.13.11 # And it would give us 27 games instead of just one (OK, there would be some duplicates with what we already have, and some may be hard to map on our buttons, but still) 17.13.52 # * moos bewails words game :) 17.13.54 Quit ch4os_ ("Lost terminal") 17.14.42 # gevaerts: interresting... 17.15.49 # neat. 17.16.16 # I've been thinking of doing that port as a way of learning about the pluging api 17.16.58 Quit tedr0ck (Connection timed out) 17.17.18 # * moos slapes gevaerts with an USB cable ;P 17.17.48 # * gevaerts hides, and wonders why moos would do that 17.18.03 Quit DerPapst ("So Long And Thanks For All The Fish!") 17.18.13 Join DerPapst [0] (n=DerPapst@p5B23EF77.dip.t-dialin.net) 17.18.28 # * DerPapst is done with hunting and shot some noodles 17.19.07 # * gevaerts wonders if DerPapst used the A-3, B-7 method of shooting 17.19.30 # you bet :-P 17.20.00 # gevaerts: hehe :) It would have been pitty for us USB stack to see you distracted by plugins 17.20.08 # :) 17.20.56 # I haven't started yet :) But now and then I need some time of from USB... 17.21.10 # rockbox all about plugins. usb isn't important 17.21.23 # And if you want to prevent me from doing that, you can of course do it first :) 17.21.29 # * DerPapst adds an "is" 17.21.48 # DerPapst: that's not what you said in your application :) 17.22.15 # i didn't? then i must have pasted the wrong text o.O 17.22.42 Join waldo [0] (n=waldo@ip-81-11-203-50.dsl.scarlet.be) 17.22.47 # scorche: you around? 17.22.59 # You said "Rockbox is all about...", but there was something else after that :) 17.23.38 # lies! 17.24.57 Quit mrkiko ("Lost terminal") 17.25.01 Join Tordre [0] (n=86990a41@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-1c009376f4a7d2f8) 17.25.29 # Hello 17.25.41 # good morning 17.25.51 Join midgey [0] (n=tjross@westquad-188-46.reshall.umich.edu) 17.26.56 # yes, it is. 17.27.55 Join tvelocity [0] (n=tony@athedsl-4397716.home.otenet.gr) 17.39.41 Quit csc` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17.40.30 Nick bluebroth3r is now known as bluebrother (n=dom@f053153164.adsl.alicedsl.de) 17.41.57 Join csc` [0] (n=csc@archlinux/user/csc) 17.42.45 Part Chipsaru 17.44.54 Part Cazou ("Miam miam") 17.49.12 Join CShaffer [0] (n=484b848d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-7fe2e651bd06b88c) 17.49.46 # Hi Everyone - Corey here, I submitted the usability app for GSoC 17.51.47 # Hi CShaffer. Welcome to rockbox ! 17.54.34 # o/ :-) 17.55.13 # I'm not sure how much you already know about rockbox. Did you look around the website a bit yet ? 17.55.59 # CShaffer: first question: do you have rockboxable player ? or do you plan to buy one ? ... :-) 17.56.18 # haha yea i have an ipod 17.56.49 # I am not overly familiar with Rockbox - I really wanted to do a usability study and this was one of the ones I found :) 17.57.30 # last year I worked with WordPress and wasn't familiar with it either. Now I provide WP support to b5media and do independent web consulting helping companies utilizing the tool. 17.57.32 # That's always better than choosing the usability study because it looks easy, which it probably isn't ;) 17.58.56 # * petur thinks familiarity is not required at all for usability study 17.59.33 # it's probably even a plus to have a fresh view of things 17.59.33 # While reading your application, I was a bit put off by words like 'company', 'customer', and 'client'. While this isn't a serious issue, maybe it would be a good idea to change that to 'project' and 'user' ? 17.59.55 # yea sure, no problem 18.00.07 # i was using the word "user" alot haha, so I tried to change it up a bit 18.00.09 # the application sounded a bit like rockbox is selling mp3players.. 18.00.13 # I agree about the familiarity, but it's still useful to know where we stand 18.00.18 # haha i gotcha 18.00.23 Join Buschel [0] (n=abc@p54A3CA6E.dip.t-dialin.net) 18.01.13 # sorry about that, I didn't mean it in that way! 18.01.45 # and for the usability study i think its important to know in which constraints rockbox has to work ( different players, screensizes, input methods) 18.02.17 Join toffe82 [0] (n=chatzill@adsl-75-12-168-69.dsl.frs2ca.sbcglobal.net) 18.02.24 # yea good point 18.04.08 # We do have user interface simulators available for all supported players, but of course they don't give you a real feel, especially for button positions and similar. 18.04.19 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 18.04.24 # yea 18.05.09 # * gevaerts could never really use them as they seem to depend on the numeric keypad for input, which isn't there on this laptop... 18.05.56 # nevertheless, in regards of the constraints about rockbox it might be good to know the current ui just to get the reasons why it's working the way it currently does 18.06.34 # * pixelma reminds gevaerts of "Fn" buttons on laptop keyboards (not very nice but works here) 18.06.45 # gevaerts: the reason i changed the buttons for my sims :-P 18.06.51 # gevaerts: the sim has alternate keys on the normal keyboard i think :-) 18.07.09 # * bluebrother always had trouble with the alternate keys in the sim 18.07.39 # CShaffer: also, we want see some code comming out of this usability study.. how are your coding skills ? 18.07.42 # I didn't look too hard, since my area is not doable on a sim anyway, but if I do this game plugin, I might actually use it 18.09.09 # I am a pretty solid coder. I am experienced with java, c++, HTML, PHP, ASP .NET 18.09.43 # I am a graduating CS major from The College of New JErsey 18.10.02 # * DerPapst points out that html is not a programming languag :-P 18.10.24 # * gevaerts points out that he said 'coder', not 'programmer' ;) 18.10.37 # meh. 18.10.48 # * DerPapst goes to the corner 18.10.55 # lolol 18.10.55 # * gevaerts likes nitpicking 18.11.02 # .NET isn't a language either, is it? 18.11.15 # uses C# 18.11.16 # No, but ASP .NET probably is 18.11.32 # .Net is more a framework, as you can use differen lang with it.. 18.11.38 # yea its a framework 18.11.42 # VB, C# 18.11.58 Join desowin [0] (n=desowin@atheme/developer/desowin) 18.12.05 # how about C? C is quite a different thing than C++ (but both are quite often mixed up) 18.12.09 Join thgz [0] (n=thgz@dsl-lprgw5-fe5fdc00-169.dhcp.inet.fi) 18.12.30 # I haven't had much experience with C at all. I was wondering how much of an issue that would be? 18.12.57 # When I initially applied, I wasn't sure how much code would be expected since it was a usability study. 18.13.21 # it's more ... say "basic". For example, there is nothing like a string. 18.13.32 # We're still not sure either ;) People seem to have different opinions on that 18.13.49 # i dont think there is much coding involved in the usability study, but we want you to implemtent all/ a view of your suggestions to try them out.. 18.13.52 # and it's functional, not OOP. So quite some different approach in programmning 18.13.58 # well the ultimate goal of the study is that you put your findings in code to make rockbox more intuitive 18.14.13 # also its not easy to convice our user of changes, so something to try out is good.. 18.14.21 # DerPapst: and wait for the core devs to dislike it ;-) 18.14.36 # haha 18.14.38 # hehe.. ture :-P 18.14.38 # indeed. I think that we mainly want to see a prototype 18.14.39 # * bluebrother likes the current UI pretty much 18.14.39 # bluebrother: C is not functional programming... Lisp is. C is imperative 18.15.08 # * DerPapst hates functional languages 18.15.16 # or haskell 18.15.26 # *shudder* 18.15.44 # Hi. When I enable equalizer, the voice begins stuttering. Has anyone noted this or is it only my problem? I'm using E200 18.15.55 # Have there been a lot of apps for the usability sutdy? 18.16.15 # Nico_P: bah, damn. Meant procedural. 18.16.31 # CShaffer: 2 till now.. 18.16.44 # yea 18.17.14 # * bluebrother goes standing in the corner 18.17.30 Join MethoS- [0] (n=clemens@host-091-096-215-050.ewe-ip-backbone.de) 18.17.33 # thgz: only voice or all playback? 18.18.35 # Only voice, except when voice is stuttering the playback is doing it also, but otherwise the playback is going fine 18.18.46 # CShaffer: (disclaimer, personal opinion follows) I think the main problem a usability study will face is that rockbox doesn't have a clear leadership, which means there is no single person of small group that you have to convince to accept your suggestions, you have to convince a lot of people, and some of them can be quite stubborn 18.18.48 # CShaffer: but the usability study is really a bit difficult to satisfy, i think you have to convice a bit more, that your work really helps rockbox.. 18.19.24 # thgz: ok, so both voice and playback are stuttering and without voice the music plays fine? 18.19.56 # yea when dealing with open-source that can often be the case 18.20.05 # exactly. When I don't use voice (eg while in WPS) it is fine. 18.20.10 # That's also the main reason (IMHO) for needing one I think. Adding codecs and other basic features doesn't require much coordination, but enforcing UI guidelines without a strong leadership is hard 18.20.25 # are there any plans for support of id3v2 cover art covers being shown instead of the workaround with the covers being saved sepparatly ? 18.20.37 # definitely 18.20.46 # thgz: well, sounds like a performance issue to me then -- with voice running two audio streams need to get decoded and mixed. 18.20.47 Join raxor [0] (n=d52a1594@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-6c409f09858f476a) 18.20.57 # what codec are you using? 18.21.27 Join phinze [0] (n=phinze@CPE-65-30-152-122.wi.res.rr.com) 18.21.27 # I've thought something similar... I've only tested with mp3 18.21.37 # waldo: I think the main problem for doing that is that there is currently no jpeg code in the core (there is a plugin, but that's not usable in this context). Also, if I understand things correctly, the current id3 parser has trouble with large tags 18.21.57 # are those high bitrate? mp3 shouldn't need too much cpu 18.22.03 Join Cazou [0] (n=detlev@193.190.208.37) 18.22.32 # They're something between 128 and 320 kbps. I can test with different bitrates 18.22.39 # * bluebrother doesn't consider separate artwork files a workaround 18.23.24 # hey there... im kinda of a newbie here.. ive recently purchased the iriver x20.. and am interested on porting the rockbox to it.. but i just dont know where to start.. ive gone through the wiki but it all seems a bit too confusing.. 18.23.26 # gevaerts: k thanks same situations as a few months ago then :) ... btw whitch id3 tags are used ? v1 or v2 when both are available ? 18.23.34 # CShaffer: I think I need to add one more disclaimer. While I may talk a lot, I've been involved in rockbox for less than two months, so my views on things can definitely be wrong 18.23.46 # raxor: Have you seen www.rockbox.org/wiki/NewPort 18.24.04 # waldo: I think v2 has priority, and if any v2 tags are present v1 will not be used at all, but I could be wrong 18.24.13 # waldo: V2 18.24.15 Quit kugel (Remote closed the connection) 18.24.17 # and what if a specific tag is only in one version and not in the other 18.24.20 # waldo: v2 is read first, if there is no v2 tag, then Rockbox searches for and uses the v1 tag 18.24.24 # v1 are ignored if v2 are present 18.24.34 # (as gevaerts said) 18.24.36 Join Laszlo [0] (n=5b5226a4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-0d87d6cf280681b9) 18.24.50 # (and linuxstb) 18.24.52 # well yeah ive checked that out.. i identified the chip being used and all.. i just want to know what to do next? 18.24.52 Quit CShaffer ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 18.25.08 # raxor: Identify how to run custom code would be good 18.25.13 # raxor: You've seen the NewPort page? 18.25.14 # thus; if i have replaygain in a v1 tag but not in v2 it should still be used ? 18.25.30 # raxor: Is there a firmware update mechanism? And a way to recover if a bad update is made? 18.25.32 # .... while all the rest of the info is in the v2 tags 18.25.40 # linuxstb: He has 18.25.43 # waldo: in that case it will not be used 18.26.10 # On 320 kbps mp3 some stuttering ockurs. 18.26.23 # raxor: What CPU is it? 18.26.28 # thgz: Target? 18.26.49 # gevaerts: Thought so kinda sux .. amarok replaygain script scans and seems to save it in the V1 tags or so 'cause rockbox doesn't see the ones i scanned with amarok, those i scanned in my foobar200 days plat just fine 18.26.57 # it just has an firmware updater which checks for ur firmware.. if ur firmwar is uptodate it says no upgrade required. 18.27.08 # Sansa e200. 18.27.15 # is tehre any tool which i could use to extract the firmware? 18.27.22 # waldo: You can't store replaygain tags in id3v1. Maybe it's storing it in APE tags? 18.27.25 # Replaygain support on linux is ropey at best 18.27.38 # waldo: id3v2 has a --convert option that you might try. I've not used it, but it might work 18.27.46 Quit Laszlo (Client Quit) 18.28.31 Join Lacko [0] (n=szlacko@91.82.38.164.pool.invitel.hu) 18.28.36 # Well, when eq is enabled there seems to be trouble on voicing those menus. I mean when I click on equalizer some options sometimes are voiced and sometimes not, but when eq is disabled I haven't taht problem. 18.29.51 Quit Lacko (Client Quit) 18.30.39 Join szLacko [0] (n=szlacko@91.82.38.164.pool.invitel.hu) 18.34.14 Quit madhatter_ ("Ex-Chat") 18.34.30 # ON 128 kbps mp3 the result is the same 18.36.49 # ok.. i just found out that theres a tool to re install the firmware incase a bad updat is made.. 18.37.21 Quit MethoS-- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18.38.21 # mmmmhh... 18.38.31 # Archos 404, Not easily unbrickable 18.38.38 # some test points 18.38.42 # what are the next steps? 18.38.46 # but no jtag prot 18.38.53 # s/prot/port 18.41.57 Join MethoS-- [0] (n=clemens@host-091-096-209-121.ewe-ip-backbone.de) 18.42.36 Join hannesd [0] (n=light@p5B160A9D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 18.43.25 Part Cazou 18.43.54 Quit raxor ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") 18.50.33 Quit petur ("switching...") 18.50.41 Join petur [50] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) 18.58.40 Quit DerDome (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 19.01.38 Quit MethoS- (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 19.02.27 Join sumare [0] (n=Miranda@c-67-191-162-98.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) 19.04.22 Join disorganizer [0] (n=artemis@p5B11F74B.dip.t-dialin.net) 19.05.16 Join kushal_12_27_200 [0] (n=kushal@12.169.180.134) 19.11.23 Join DerDome [0] (n=DerDome@dslb-082-083-167-244.pools.arcor-ip.net) 19.12.00 Quit goffa (Remote closed the connection) 19.13.51 Quit disorganizer ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.13/2008031114]") 19.14.16 Quit DerPapst (Nick collision from services.) 19.14.26 Join DerPapst [0] (n=DerPapst@p5B23D1C1.dip.t-dialin.net) 19.16.22 Quit DerDome (Nick collision from services.) 19.16.23 Join DerDom1 [0] (n=DerDome@dslb-082-083-176-013.pools.arcor-ip.net) 19.16.33 Nick DerDom1 is now known as DerDome (n=DerDome@dslb-082-083-176-013.pools.arcor-ip.net) 19.17.01 Quit gregzx ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.13/2008031114]") 19.17.31 Join ceclin [0] (n=clincher@96.240.96.79) 19.17.32 Quit MethoS-- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19.21.11 Quit DerDome (Nick collision from services.) 19.21.12 Join DerDom1 [0] (n=DerDome@dslb-082-083-224-123.pools.arcor-ip.net) 19.21.22 Nick DerDom1 is now known as DerDome (n=DerDome@dslb-082-083-224-123.pools.arcor-ip.net) 19.29.32 Join BitTorment [0] (n=martin@87-194-94-92.bethere.co.uk) 19.30.46 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 3.0pre/2008032904]") 19.39.34 # * ender` yawns 19.40.54 Quit szLacko (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19.43.21 # * pixelma kicks build system 19.43.25 Quit moos (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19.43.45 Quit DerDome (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 19.44.08 # (or would like to) 19.44.32 Join DerDome [0] (n=DerDome@dslb-082-083-173-113.pools.arcor-ip.net) 19.45.28 # * BigBambi hands pixelma The world's biggest stick (TM) 19.45.44 Quit hannesd ("Client suicide") 19.46.46 Part thgz 19.50.34 Quit phinze () 19.52.41 Join stripwax_ [0] (n=Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) 19.57.01 Join BHSPitLappy [0] (n=stephen@adsl-68-88-140-226.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) 19.57.24 Join goffa [0] (n=goffa@216.220.23.105) 20.00.55 Quit Feisar (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20.01.11 Join OlivierBorowski [0] (n=OlivierB@80.185.252.95) 20.02.42 Join Hodapp [0] (n=angel@cpe-75-179-155-26.woh.res.rr.com) 20.04.23 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 20.04.51 Join fehmicans [0] (n=canavar@88.226.159.215) 20.05.22 Quit stripwax (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20.08.03 Join Horschti [0] (n=Horscht@p4FD4D46E.dip.t-dialin.net) 20.08.47 Quit Horscht (Nick collision from services.) 20.21.31 Quit Tordre ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") 20.22.06 Quit OlivierBorowski (Remote closed the connection) 20.22.28 Quit ceclin ("reboat") 20.22.35 Join OlivierBorowski [0] (n=OlivierB@80.185.252.95) 20.24.51 Join Thundercloud_ [0] (n=thunderc@84-51-130-71.judith186.adsl.metronet.co.uk) 20.27.15 Quit preglow (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20.27.15 NSplit heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net 20.28.19 Join bagawk [0] (n=lee@unaffiliated/bagawk) 20.31.43 Quit bertrik ("bye") 20.33.06 Join disorganizer [0] (n=artemis@p5B11EAD0.dip.t-dialin.net) 20.33.55 # * gevaerts reminds people that his devcon free beer offer expires today 20.36.43 Join HowdyDoody [0] (n=Administ@c-71-225-221-149.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) 20.36.54 Quit InHisName (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20.37.17 # what was that again? 20.37.44 # if the date for the devcon is decided this week, I'll buy everyone there a beer 20.39.11 # which timezone? 20.39.15 Join gregzx [0] (n=chatzill@dtk100.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) 20.40.04 # * gevaerts is willing to be flexible, so the week will end when it's no longer officially 30 march 2008 in any part of the world 20.40.14 Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 20.40.27 # well, that will still leave some time 20.41.46 Join lee-qid_ [0] (n=liqid@p54964949.dip.t-dialin.net) 20.42.03 Join p3tur [0] (n=petur@d54C6F5E5.access.telenet.be) 20.43.17 Quit petur (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20.43.17 Quit Buschel (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20.43.17 Quit domonok1 (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20.43.17 Quit Pio__ (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20.43.17 Quit mokkurkalve (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20.43.17 Quit BHSPitMonkey (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20.43.17 Quit Neovanglist (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20.43.17 Quit Bjoern-Erik (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20.43.17 Quit Kohlrabi (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20.43.17 Quit rgould (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20.43.17 Quit BrianHV (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20.43.26 NHeal heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net 20.43.26 NJoin mokkurkalve [0] (n=eivind@062016139251.customer.alfanett.no) 20.43.31 Quit lee-qid (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20.43.36 Part pixelma 20.45.49 Quit OlivierBorowski (Remote closed the connection) 20.45.56 NJoin BrianHV [0] (n=bhv1@copland.brianhv.org) 20.46.11 Join domonoky [0] (n=Domonoky@rockbox/developer/domonoky) 20.50.11 # a question regarding gcos: shouldnt the usablility study also have as requirement that all recommendations are implementable in the current structure of rockbox without programming all of it? (or at least something like that) 20.51.52 # also, should we "mark" the projects for which we already have applications? maybe some students then decide to use another project. 20.52.09 Nick p3tur is now known as petur (n=petur@d54C6F5E5.access.telenet.be) 20.52.23 Quit DerPapst (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)) 20.52.23 # I don't think so, for various reasons. It would require the student to know too much of the UI internals, and it could be too restrictive 20.53.24 # the risk though is that the only result will be a list of requirements which are impossible to fullfill 20.53.47 Quit fehmicans (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20.53.47 # and I don't think so either :). We want the best possible application for each job, and this would chase people away who are only interested in a specific project 20.54.03 # But the usability project should also include some implementation... 20.54.08 Quit amiconn (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC with a difference") 20.55.26 # I think that if anyone does the usability study, he/she should communicate with the rest of us, which would allow us to steer them in the right direction and avoid impossible suggestions (but good suggestions that require major work are IMHO acceptable) 20.56.49 # The GraphicsAPI wiki page mentions "Full clipping support". I can't find anything more about it. How does this work ? 20.57.52 Quit mf0102 ("Verlassend") 20.58.23 # * gevaerts is trying to map the sgt-puzzles drawing api to the rockbox plugin graphics api 20.58.26 # Any attempt to draw outside the LCD (and now, current viewport) will be clipped. 20.58.52 # I'm not sure how to explain clipping.. 20.59.01 # OK, so no support for non-viewport clipping regions ? 20.59.25 NJoin Buschel [0] (n=abc@p54A3CA6E.dip.t-dialin.net) 20.59.25 NJoin Pio__ [0] (n=sean@64.251.10.106) 20.59.25 NJoin BHSPitMonkey [0] (n=stephen@unaffiliated/bhspitmonkey) 20.59.25 NJoin Neovanglist [0] (n=Neovangl@69.31.87.218) 20.59.25 NJoin Bjoern-Erik [0] (n=Bjoern@166.80-202-110.nextgentel.com) 20.59.25 NJoin Kohlrabi [0] (n=Kohlrabi@frustrum.nosebud.de) 20.59.25 NJoin rgould [0] (n=rgould@osgeo/member/rgould) 20.59.52 # gevaerts: What do you mean by "clipping region" ? That sounds like a viewport to me... 20.59.55 Join Mathiasdm [0] (n=Mathias@d54C597B6.access.telenet.be) 21.00.54 Join qwedsa [0] (n=superman@ip51ccca31.speed.planet.nl) 21.01.05 # In the sgt-puzzles api, it's dynamic; i.e. a specific game can call clip(drawing *dr, int x, int y, int w, int h); which will restrict drawing to the specified rectangle. This rectangle can be different every time 21.01.51 Join wisp_sh [0] (n=wisp@node-29-1.adsl.tula.net) 21.02.26 # hmm... wonder if I should feel like a sinner for using iTunes & default firmware to handle all the podcast stuff even though I use Rockbox for all other audio... 21.02.55 # Of course you should ;) 21.03.56 # I'm anticipating it being useful when I'm in "grab my iPod from the dock and run out the door" mode and I need something to listen to while I drive an hour to work that isn't raving right-wing lunatics talking about how wonderful of a man Bush is. 21.04.48 # * disorganizer pillorys hodapp 21.05.00 # -y+ie 21.05.00 # pillorys? 21.05.08 # pillories? 21.05.37 # see dictionary 21.05.56 Quit BHSPitMonkey (Success) 21.05.56 # oh, those. 21.06.15 Join Pio [0] (n=sean@64.251.10.106) 21.06.15 # why?!?! 21.06.30 # you use itunes :-) 21.07.12 # not for anything important, just for syncing calendar/contacts/podcasts 21.07.20 # * disorganizer notices he forgot the :-) again 21.07.21 # I use VLC for most else 21.10.07 # Is there a way to copy a rectangular area from the framebuffer to somewhere else in memory ? 21.10.15 Join szLacko [0] (n=szlacko@catv-50635a83.catv.broadband.hu) 21.11.25 # gevaerts: Not really, but you can access the framebuffer directly (rb->lcd_framebuffer) 21.11.39 # ok, so I can implement it reasonably easily 21.11.41 Join BHSPitMonkey [0] (n=stephen@unaffiliated/bhspitmonkey) 21.11.49 # But the framebuffer format is target-dependent, and there are about 6-7 formats 21.12.02 # :( 21.12.41 # Why do you need to copy from the framebuffer? 21.12.45 # Can I use viewports dynamically, i.e. set one whenever I want to restrict some drawing to a specific area of the screen ? 21.13.22 # Yes, but can't you just restrict it directly? 21.13.43 # linuxstb: I'm looking into porting sgt-puzzles. This specifies a drawing api for use by the puzzles that each port must implement. If I can map all of them directly to GraphicsAPI functions, it will be much easier 21.13.55 Quit Pio__ (Connection timed out) 21.14.10 # or potentially write some simple wrapper functions and map the api to those? 21.14.11 # The only time you can't have "temporary" viewports is if you're displaying scrolling lines - in that case, the viewport needs to stay the same for the lifetime of the scrolling line 21.14.27 # I won't need those 21.14.52 # stripwax_: they will have to be wrappers. The exact function parameters are not always the same 21.15.04 Quit ompaul (Client Quit) 21.16.29 Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@84-51-130-71.judith186.adsl.metronet.co.uk) 21.17.03 # So I will need to do a full implementation of rectangular-area-copying, and circle and polygon drawing. The rest are (reasonably) simple wrappers. That should be doable. 21.21.32 # and they will go into the plugin lib? 21.22.12 # I also need some kind of tick() function, and of course malloc() :) 21.23.15 # stripwax_: maybe, I don't know how big the demand is 21.23.28 # * disorganizer saw the m-word! 21.23.51 # * gevaerts didn't dare mentionning realloc() 21.24.21 # gevaerts: at least circle and polygon drawing would be nice in the plugin api... 21.25.10 # Indeed 21.25.14 # and for the tick(), there is either rb->currenttick, or i think there is a user timer aviable.. 21.25.47 # There has to be something, since plugins do animations... 21.26.12 # Basically this thing wants a callback that is regularly called 21.27.05 # The great thing is that this will give us 27 games in one go (minus some that we already have and some that might be too hard to map to the available buttons) :) 21.27.40 # :-) there is rb->timer_register() which takes a callback.. 21.28.28 # wonderful. This entire project should be pretty easy :) 21.29.25 # It's not often that you find software that actually clearly defines a well thought out API to separate out port-specific code 21.29.44 # for malloc you have to look at other plugins, or just use dbestfit from our swedes :-) 21.30.52 # * gevaerts will try his best to sneak a malloc through the defence perimeter 21.31.19 # gevaerts: You have an anti-pitchfork and flaming torches device? 21.31.22 # i think malloc for plugins is ok... its already used by some.. 21.31.49 # BigBambi: I hope the games will distract them enough to let me through :) 21.31.54 # :) 21.33.09 Quit Thundercloud_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21.38.06 # another Theme/WPS editor application has popped up, this time with the PC part in java.. :-/ 21.39.42 Quit lee-qid_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21.40.04 Join lee-qid [0] (n=liqid@p54964949.dip.t-dialin.net) 21.40.47 Join n1s [0] (n=nils@nl104-208-216.student.uu.se) 21.42.20 Join knittl [0] (n=knittl@193.170.132.130) 21.44.59 Join Feisar [0] (n=jljhook@mun.irkki.fi) 21.45.36 # * petur spots a much cheaper MK8007GAH on ebay... 21.45.54 # Hi! My name is Laszlo Szilagyi, and I'm interested in the GSOC 2008. I'm about to write and send my application (ok, last minute I know). Michael Sevakis mentioned a "high quality resampler" wich should be implemented, but gave me no more details about the broject. I'm interested in such a task, but I'm afraid I need more information about it to write my application, don't I?