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Subject: RE: Blind, Bluechip, sterile debate, an apology and a recognition to the group.
From: rinty (rinty_at_freeuk.com)
Date: 2004-06-22


Hey Hey hang on folks, I did actually write an apology before BC wrote
his second message. This (in my view) makes Christian's post
unnecessary and offensive. However I do agree with him on a few
points, not least that BC's message was provocative, however I didn't
want to further inflame the situation, having been the one who worded
it unfortunately initially.

I've always, (without fail) written thanking people for the help I've
been given by other list members, and have tried to pass on
information to others. Indeed, my first post to the list was a thank
you for the work done to make the archos accessible.

I'm currently engaged in correspondence with 2 others who are
reluctant to ask very basic questions on the list, because they're
worried about others' attitudes, in order to help them, I therefore
really don't need to be chastised by Christian.

What I wrote initially, (As Christian would know if he'd bothered to
read my second post properly, was at worst a quick reply whilst doing
something else. Try putting yourself in the position of sitting the
other side of a table over a coffee, and then evaluating what I
actually said.

BC, think about how it would have come across if we'd been having a
beer together, and then decide whether your reply was appropriate,
baring in mind both the messages I sent. I didn't know anything about
any work you've done in the past on audible accessibility, and by
concerned with, I meant that you're not dealing with blind-related
issues, not that you weren't bothered about them!, based on the fact
that you write plugins, and that I've been told on the list that
plugins weren't accessible. clearly an error on my part, hence the
second message I wrote.

Christian I wouldn't want to patronise you as you have done to me, but
please don't presume to apologise on my behalf, especially when I've
already done so publicly. Gratitude is commendable, but telling other
blind people that they ought to grovel is frankly offensive. People
have lost teeth for less!, smile. Your comment about blind people not
being programmers is offensive, as many are, and wrong.

Your comment about making tea versus writing to a list may be valid,
and I'll take it on board, as I'm certainly not perfect, however I
treat email as an informal virtual conversation tool, and dash off
emails whilst doing other things, incidentally today, voluntarily
editing an audio mag for elderly blind people.

As you rightly say, Aman Rocker and others are visually impaired, and
contribute as much as anyone else to the list, and it's both valid an
important to affirm the 2-way nature of the operation here.

I want to end by saying, that I for one value the effort and time
given both in developing the software and in helping people that the
development team and others have given, very much value the list, and
have and intend to continue to try to contribute as much as possible
to helping others both publicly and privately. I will think more
about how I word things, but I've struggled to keep my message to
Christian printable.

Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: rockbox-bounces_at_cool.haxx.se
[mailto:rockbox-bounces_at_cool.haxx.se]On Behalf Of Cristian
Sent: 22 June 2004 13:57
To: Rockbox development
Subject: Blind, Bluechip, sterile debate, an apology and a recognition
to the group.

Rob wrote:
>>I realise that you're a third party developer, only partially
associated
>>with the project, and that this is probably not of concern to you.

BC replyed:
>Bit harsh dude - I was only trying to help. I didn't realise you
were blind when I threw my idea in the cooking pot... ...

As blind, I personally feel upset by such comments coming from other
blind people, and I think it's right to write a couple of lines, even
if BlueChip's reply was a little provocative.

I honestly don't understand why such comments can be made, to a
project that is one of the most friendly to be used with speech, and,
first it must be recognized, that, none of us blind, like it or not, I
think, has ever programmed a bit, we just functioned as valuable help
and testers, but everything was done just out of shere willingness to
help and make something nice for us too, be it a core interface, or a
small plugin.

integrated within or outside the official project, I really don't
care, I must say that joerg Linus, Andrea, Daniel, rocker and all the
cvs peiple did a wonderful job, but, I think, though a different
thing, also Bluechip's plugin, the audio interface, made vocal, when
all other plugins arent vocalized at the moment, made vocal even if a
standard speech-plugin core interface doesn't exist yet, I think is a
great effort, and, like it or not, whatever his approach to this
project, must be welcomed, especially when considering that he offered
full support to integrate the plugin with the rest speech output, when
Linus and the others will develop an appropriate core structure in the
firmware.

I'm really disappointed, that a blind person can feel free to dare
say that someone "is not concerned", who ever he or she is, working in
this project. And, I don't think that you write to a list like when
drinking a cup of tea, when I drink tea I drink tea, when I write to
the list, though not in my mother tongue, I usually think of what I
write, especially when something can be of not mere technical nature.

              Sorry for the slight off topic, but I felt like writing
it, even as a form of respect to aman, arnaud, and others, who, though
blind contribute to this list.

             Cristian

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