FS#12955 - Rockbox daily not turning off once notebook is shut down with player connected

Attached to Project: Rockbox
Opened by Ali Akcaagac (aakcaagac) - Friday, 28 February 2014, 00:27 GMT
Task Type Bugs
Category Operating System/Drivers
Status Unconfirmed
Assigned To No-one
Operating System Sansa Clip Zip
Severity Low
Priority Normal
Reported Version Daily build (which?)
Due in Version Undecided
Due Date Undecided
Percent Complete 0%
Votes 0
Private No



I run rockbox daily (last update 27 Feb 2014) and found an issue that I like to report. I have my sandisk clip zip connected to an external USB hub, which is connected to my notebook. Today I left the sandisk clip zip connected and turned the notebook off. I expected that the player will disconnect from the USB hub -> blanks the screen after 20-30 seconds (depending on the setup) and then turns off after a while (depending on the setup). Unfortunately the last step won't happen.

The sandisk clip zip really disconnected from the USB connection (the usb picture disappears from the display) with the notebook going back into the rockbox menu (Play, Radio, Settings, Recording etc.) and after a while also blanks the screen as expected.

Unfortunately it does NOT turn itself off as it would if you leave it entirely unconnected (unwired) with the USB. The sandisk clip zip starts to turn the screen on again after a while, turns off again, turns on again after a while, turns off etc.

I had to plug off the mini USB connection (the wiring between the player and the usb hub) so it turns off and shuts down after a while.

What I believe is, that the USB subroutines might not know the difference between powered on notebook and powered off notebook. It only knows that it's wired and thus tries to turn the player on again after it blanks. It should really be possible to keep the player connected (and wired) when the notebook shuts down and have the player shut down as well (after blanking and then turning itself off).

Could this be reviewed and maybe worked on ?

Thanks so far.
This task depends upon

Comment by Jonathan Gordon (jdgordon) - Friday, 28 February 2014, 00:57 GMT
Has this ever worked the way you expect? is it a powered usb hub?
Comment by Rosso Maltese (asettico) - Friday, 28 February 2014, 07:40 GMT
I experimented a similar behavior with an external disk connected to a powered USB port in my laptop: when this is shut down, the disk powers down, then spin up, then powers down, and so on. The laptop is HP EliteBook 8560w, the port is on the nearest on the left side.
I think it could depend on the USB port itself: try to connect your player in another port.
Comment by Ali Akcaagac (aakcaagac) - Friday, 28 February 2014, 09:52 GMT
Well I do have a powered USB hub connected to the notebook. To be precise it's this one:

The USB hub shuts electronically down once the notebook turns off. All Ports (they show separate LEDs telling the user whether it's operating or not) shut down, power connection shuts down (also has a separate LED). Connected to it is a MOUSE dongle and an external hard drive (also powered with a manual switch = usually off). Sometimes I connect other devices to it like my iPhone or other things. The usual behaviour with all devices is this.

Notebook turned off -> hub turns off -> MOUSE dongle turns off / harddisk goes into parking position and idles / iPhone disconnects and operates as if no cable is being plugged in.

Only the Clip ZIP (as commencted by asettico above) turns off, on, off, on, off, on etc.

So I believe (and this is just guessing), that the Clip ZIP only asks for the PINS of the USB port. E.g. asking if it's connected or not. Not asking whether it received a power off signal from the USB port or not.

It would be nice -> if possible -> to have the Clip ZIP stay connected even if the notebook is shut down. The Player should leave the USB connected situation once the notebook has been turned off (as it clearly does) and then after a while should turn itself off (as it clearly does as well). Unfortunately something plays ping-pong with it and have it turn on again :)

Poor little player.
Comment by Ali Akcaagac (aakcaagac) - Friday, 28 February 2014, 11:26 GMT
Ok I experimented for a while and here my conclusions:

I checked my notebook BIOS whether the POWER on turned off notebook is on (LENOVO offers a powering feature when the notebook is shut down). There are two options. One says "POWER when on battery" and the other "POWER anytime" (at least something simlar). Battery was set on "enabled" and the Anytime was set to "disabled". I turned everything off and verified the behaviour of the player.

Regardless whether this feature is turned on or off the player behaves exactly the same.

Once the notebook gets powered off the USB connection symbol disappears and the rockbox menu pops up. After 30 second (my setting) the display turns off. Within this state I can't say whether the player has shut itself down or not but if I have to guess then the player is still on waiting for input. After a couple of minutes the screen turns on again showing the rockbox menu with play, playlist, settings etc. (I am not able to see a "rockbox booting" logo which comes up once the player is turned on). And now the screen blanks within 5 seconds. Not the 30 seconds that I initially have set within my preferences. Stays there for a couple of minutes and the behaviour continues until the player is plugged off from the hub.
Comment by MichaelGiacomelli (saratoga) - Friday, 28 February 2014, 19:07 GMT
Your player will not turn off while its running on external power. This is to allow your battery to charge, as the player cannot charge the battery while it is off.

If you want the idle power off to work, you'll have to disconnect it from USB or get a USB hub that is unpowered.
Comment by Ali Akcaagac (aakcaagac) - Saturday, 01 March 2014, 00:35 GMT
Hello and thanks for the quick reply. Your explaination is indeed correct.

But why does my described behaviour still happen once the hub is unpowered ?

Or let me ask differently.

When the notebook is turned on and the usb hub gets the "power on" signal from the notebook the behaviour of the player is correct. It boots Rockbox stays idle with the USB connected symbol and after a while turns off the screen (blanks it in 30 seconds -> my settings).

But when the notebook is turned off and the hub gets the "power off" signal (and thus powering off itself too) -> and now the question

Then why does the player permanently goes on and off ? if it gets a power signal to charge the battery (which is a good thing indeed) thn the player should power on, get the battery charged from the HUB, blank the screen in 30 seconds and stay that way all night.

Like keeping the player running all night with screen blanked and permanently charging. This would be an acceptable behaviour. But going on and off all the time is quite irritating. Other devices connected to that USB hub does not going on and off all the time.

For example if I would connect my iphone to the same hub then it would charge the entire night. But this wont happen as soon as I turn the notebook off, it sends an off signal to the external hub and the power is going off.

The iphone will disconnect from it (not showing the charging symbol). Blanks the screen and idles the entire night. Otherwise it would show the same issue like the player by going on and off all the time (I would hear the connecting disconnecting sound all the time from the phone).

I hope I could describe the situation here.
Comment by Ali Akcaagac (aakcaagac) - Saturday, 01 March 2014, 02:24 GMT
I thought about this for a while and would like to offer this idea.

// pseudo code
if (usb_connected == true || battery_charging == true ) {
shutdown = false;
} else {
shutdown = time_from_setting;

It doesn't make sense to shut ANY of the players down (you know you provide a setting for it to idle for e.g. 20 seconds then blank the screen and then after 2 or 5 minutes shut the player down) and then have it turn on again because it gets a power signal from the usb port. This is the thing that causes the ON OFF ON OFF situation. Simply avoid shutting down and the problem is gone once and forever. As soon as ANY of the players are disconnected from USB running on battery only the shutdown mechanism should of course operate as intended.
Comment by MichaelGiacomelli (saratoga) - Saturday, 01 March 2014, 05:10 GMT
The power on is a hardware thing when voltage is detected on the USB connector, so my guess is that it powers on because the hub is still providing voltage. You won't be able to change how that works as it is not under software control. As for power off, I don't remember how the logic works. It may be that the hub doesn't negotiate enough current to enable powering the device.