LyreProject - Wish listArchive of messages.
from Mark Allums to rockbox@coolBLAH_BLAH.haxx.se date Feb 18, 2008 11:06 AM subject Re: Suggest features for a new hardware recorder/audio player for using with Rockbox Uh, is it even possible to minimize the noise that a player makes in the earphones? I'm talking about machine noise, computer noise, the kind one sometimes gets from a computer's speakers or on an FM radio tuned off-station and placed too close to a computer. My Sansa E-series makes that noise. I expect that you would say that it is a problem with the hardware, but I haven't noticed it with the original firmware, only with Rockbox. If there is anything you can do, feature-wise, to minimize this noise, then do so, unless, say, it severely compromises battery life, or something like that. Perhaps you could take a poll, and find out if the problem affects other players, or is confined to the Sansa. Anyway, wish list of features: Hardware: 1. Minimal player-induced noise
2. User-replaceable battery
3. Microphone jack, for external mic
4. Accept MicroSD? card, supporting HC cards
5. Use commonly available chargers, accessories, if patents allow
6. Wireless connection to computer? (not Bluetooth, too expensive, not secure)
Software: 1. Work with some commercial computer media players, if license allows (e.g. Microsoft Windows Media Player 10/11)
2. Work with common open source/free media players, under Windows and Linux, e.g., Miro.
On the iRiver H1x0 series the line-in jack is also a TOSLINK lightpipe (SPDIF) jack. This allows for optical (digital) input without requiring an extra jack. I really like this design and believe that the h1x0 was the only consumer grade device to offer it. It was a good idea and would be of great benefit to recording enthusiasts.
The line-out/optical output jack (on the other hand) is almost never used since I pull audio off of the DAP via USB.
my personal priorities when choosing a hard disk-based player are (in order):
1) Runs Rockbox
2) Small physical size - pocketability
3) Tactile buttons (i.e. not touch sensitive)
4) High storage capaciity (80GB min)
5) Long runtime
6) Replacable battery
All other features (weight, colour screen, recording, radio) aren't so important to me.
Of the targets I've used, the Archos JBR was potentially the best, although it fails on (2). The Iriver H300 is also very nice once upgraded to 80GB, but a little chunky, and fails on (6).
From: Buddy Brannan To: Rockbox <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: 18.02.2008 17:17:29 I'd almost say having it with only enough on-board storage for Rockbox and then using microSD or SDHC (more flash is better!) would be great. I think that this might make the player cheaper, too, and SDHC and microSD cards are getting very cheap. I defiitely vote for mic and line-in jacks, though. Stereo. The present Rockbox talking features are fantastic. No touch screen, please. So long as the controls are somewhat tactile, I think the blind users (like me) will be happy. I, for instance, like the joystick on my iAudio X5, but the buttons and scroll wheel on the Sansa E200 players has some appeal as well. Just no touch screen! Even the cursor cross on the Gigabeat's OK. FM radio's so cheap to put in it probably goes without saying that we can have one http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=15173.msg115506#msg115506
I'd personally rather not see the "replaceable" battery - assuming you mean the ones you have to take out and charge seperately. I prefer the Li-Ion internal battery approach, as I'm not scared of taking the thing apart once every 18 months to replace that bit myself. It's much more convenient imo. http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=15173.msg115510#msg115510
You can have replaceable Li-Ion batteries. My phone sure does, you just slide a plastic cover off the back, out it pops, in you pop a new one. If you're designing hardware, designing a charger for the batteries ought to be pretty simple for the few people who need a separately chargeable battery (I'd simply charge one in the player, swap, then charge the other). http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=15173.msg115524#msg115524
Recording is what will set this device apart. I know that's not the focus for the majority of Rockbox developers but hear me out: The iRiver H1x0 is rare in in that it has an optical input. This allows it compete with devices that cost $500. There is nothing on the market that competes with it in terms of versatility for the recording hobbyist. Why iRiver discontinued this product type is beyond me. If you support high quality digital input and have robust recording this unit will be very popular. It will fill a void that the H1x0 series left behind and this niche is currently not being serviced by any company's products AFAIK. So my list goes like this: 1) Runs Rockbox
2) Small physical size - pocketability
3) Tactile buttons (I agree with pondlife, the gigabeat cross is finicky)
4) Nothing that protrudes too much from the case. (this was a flaw with the H1x0's joystick)
5) Silent storage (no moving parts!) CF?
6) Long runtime (always nice)
7) Integrated mic.
8) Line-In jack
9) Digital-In (preferably via mini-TOSLINK)
10) RTC (for time-stamping recordings)
11) Charging from a regular mini-USB port 5V (no adapter necessary)
12) Fast display, good for peakmeters. (the H1x0 display is too slow)
I am indifferent to the replaceable battery idea. I am indifferent to color display. If a CF adapter (or similar) could be used I would be fine with HD. (I'd just mod the RockBoxPlayer? for CF of SSD or something) Just don't leave out digital input! (24bit/192kHz would be ideal but 20bit/48kHz is fine too) [NOTE] The name of the jack in question should be mini-TOSLINK. from Brandon Hicks to Rockbox <email@example.com> date Feb 18, 2008 5:41 PM subject Re: Suggest features for a new hardware recorder/audio player for using with Rockbox Here is my ideal audio player. User replaceable and purchasable batteries, at this time that means Double A or some such or if not the player should come with an extra battery and a charger for that one as well as internal charging. Line in socket with plug-in power available, eliminating the need for separate mic in and line in jacks. Either hard drive based easily accessible for replacement or MicroSD? expantion with Rockbox and bootloader being the only things on the player. FM radio. I personally don't see a need for bluetooth or wireless. It seems pointless to develop a stack of whatever sort when only one player can use it, unless there will be future development for the Microsoft player or the new Samsungs. If there will be bluetooth/wifi, there will have to be a port of the ESpeak plug-in for blind users. Navigating wireless devices with pre-recorded clips is going to take up an incredible amount of memory for all the prompts and such. Software wise, Rockbox is good. I see no need to change anything. Removable drive support is the way to go. Most players will support creation of playlists and synchronizing to removable storage devices with a plug-in if not natively. from Rocker to rockbox@coolBLAH_BLAH.haxx.se, date Feb 18, 2008 6:01 PM subject Re: Suggest features for a new hardware recorder/audio player forusing with Rockbox Hardware: 1) Rugged steel design with rubber bumpers
2) Smallest form factor possible
3) Large tactile controls. Possibly rubberized as well
4) Highest internal flash memory with support for unlimited MicroSD?
5) High speed processor
6) Multi channel sound
7) Built in loud speaker for audio book listening
8) 3.5mm headphone jack
9) Line in/out
10) Dedicated one touch recording
11) Wireless connectivity, N,G speeds
Software: Access to all rockbox features other then games using a dedicated speech synth. I don't want much here right? Well if your going to do it then you might ass well do it right! from dani_brenden_kulingsen to Rockbox <firstname.lastname@example.org> date Feb 19, 2008 1:24 AM subject Re: Suggest features for a new hardware recorder/audio player for usingwith Rockbox Like many others have mantioned WIFI is something that is wishable. Bluetooth is not nessesary. other than that the player should be able to handle rough enviroments, but that should only be considered as long as the price doesent rise sky high because of that. http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=15173.msg115750#msg115750
If possible as well as reasonably easy access for replacing batteries, make it reasonanbly easy to replace the hard disk (assuming hard disks are being used), ie no soldering unlike in my former Archos JBRFM. Also instead of using those bloody torx screws/bolts, that seem to get used all the time, use phillips head screws. most people have access to a suitable screwdriver or if not they can easily find one. http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=15173.msg115761#msg115761
I'd like to add some thoughts as well. I my opinion the H120 inputs and outputs are near perfect, so I'd wish to have them just like this in the new project. In my living room I use the digital output a lot. My receiver has front input connectors for digital and analog. Connecting digitally gives me a sound quality that equals my CD-player. With digital out it's easy to claim that the LyrePlayerV1 can sound better than most other players on the market. Another reason for both digital input/output is that with the H120 you can chain players. I can connect the digital output to my H120, press record and then use the digital out to pass the signal to the next recorder... FM radio in the background: If FM radio is implemented, it should be possible to record from the radio without listening to the audio. This would allow timeshifting features for radio. I record a lot, so here's what I care about: - Recording time longer than 6 hours in uncompressed WAV using batteries
- Recording time longer than 24 hours when connected to a power adaptor
- High quality recordings: The harddisk or CPU should not interfere with the audio. Two examples: With the line-in recordings on the Archos V1 you can hear the spin-up noise, if you search for it. On the Iriver, recording FM radio directly into mp3 disturbs the FM-reception.
- line in/microphone in combination: The iriver line-in doubles as a microphone input. This allows me to use stealth microphones without the need of a amplifier box.
- clock, so that timer recordings are possible and the date/time info of recordings are correct.
- display: in my opinion, the H120 b/w display is good enough to set recording levels correctly. I'd prefer a b/w display that's always on to a color display that needs to be turned off to save power.
I essentially agree with everything mborus said. I think the basic idea (from a recording enthusiast perspective only) is that the H1x0 series is almost perfect. To summarize: Starting from the iRiver H1x0 as a basic platform the only things a recording enthusiast would definitely need in addition to what is already in an H1x0 are the following: - Real Time Clock (probably a given) - better that 20bit/48kHz digital input support (putting it in the professional category) - SSD or CF or equivalent... (no moving parts/no interference) http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=0df16477c17bc3f1171cda964f312521&topic=6751.msg121477#msg121477
I have just one suggestion/wish:
I'd love if LyreProject don't hiss nor induce some other annoying noise. as for now, I still haven't got in my hands any DAP that wouldn't hiss.
r4 - 23 Mar 2009 - 08:33:21 - DanielStenberg
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