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| 08:10:48 | | Join Bagder [0] (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) |
| 08:11:18 | Mode | "#rockbox +o Bagder " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 08:52:56 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 09:00 |
| 09:29:07 | Bagder | my build from yesterday is totally silent |
| 09:40:32 | adiamas | try pulling your head out of your ass ;) |
| 09:40:35 | * | adiamas smirks |
| 09:40:41 | | Nick adiamas is now known as adi|home (~adiamas@216.194.23.19) |
| 09:40:52 | * | Bagder looks at adiamas |
| 09:41:00 | * | adi|home bitches about not being able to sleep although he is yawning like a mad man. |
| 10:00 |
| 10:01:36 | | Quit adi|home (lerouge.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) |
| 10:01:36 | NSplit | lerouge.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net |
| 10:01:36 | | Quit datazone (lerouge.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) |
| 10:01:36 | | Quit mbr_ (lerouge.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) |
| 10:08:59 | | Join pyvasene [0] (~pyvasene@ns1.alcove-solutions.com) |
| 10:19:13 | | Join MeRWiN [0] (~merwin@12-230-192-86.client.attbi.com) |
| 10:19:16 | MeRWiN | hola |
| 10:20:00 | Bagder | hey ho |
| 10:20:28 | MeRWiN | question... i read something about new saving. does this regard the player? |
| 10:21:08 | Bagder | I haven't really checked it out, but I believe so |
| 10:21:13 | MeRWiN | also, just wanted to let you guys know, the volume level icon on the player doesn't change with the volume (this was a build from 2 days ago) |
| 10:25:18 | | Join Fridolin [0] (~Fridolin@wlan010.tzl.mu-luebeck.de) |
| 10:26:56 | MeRWiN | do you think that someone could compile a build for me with the #define SAVE_TO_DISK in it? |
| 10:27:12 | MeRWiN | I want to try it out, but I don't have the compiler set up :) |
| 10:27:15 | Fridolin | Hi ! |
| 10:27:24 | Fridolin | I hope you had a nice weekend ! |
| 10:27:28 | MeRWiN | HI |
| 10:27:29 | Bagder | I could, but not right now, I'm a bit busy right now |
| 10:28:06 | MeRWiN | badger: OK, would you mind compiling it and e-mailing to jheiner@yahoo.com, if it's not too much trouble? |
| 10:29:05 | MeRWiN | badger: I've got an 8 hour flight to test it out tomorrow :) |
| 10:29:11 | | Join adi|home [0] (~adiamas@as5300-9.216-194-23-19.nyc.ny.metconnect.net) |
| 10:29:15 | | Join datazone [0] ([kpjLzDwbE@207.136.36.203) |
| 10:30:04 | | Join Linus [0] (~linus@193.15.23.131) |
| 10:30:14 | Linus | morn |
| 10:30:15 | Bagder | morning linus |
| 10:30:28 | Linus | back from the dead, Bagder? |
| 10:30:37 | Bagder | only slightly back |
| 10:30:39 | Bagder | ;-) |
| 10:30:43 | Bagder | at work now though |
| 10:30:52 | Bagder | heaps of bugs to sort out |
| 10:31:16 | Bagder | my rockbox is *silent* today |
| 10:31:25 | Bagder | no sound at all |
| 10:31:34 | Bagder | built yesterday |
| 10:36:09 | Linus | recorder? |
| 10:36:17 | Linus | of course |
| 10:36:18 | Bagder | yeps |
| 10:36:27 | Linus | does it spin up? |
| 10:36:36 | Bagder | yes, everything seems to be ok |
| 10:36:41 | Bagder | just no sound |
| 10:36:48 | Bagder | I'll try another set of earphones |
| 10:36:49 | webmind | morning |
| 10:37:47 | Linus | webmind: morn |
| 10:37:54 | * | Linus goes for coffee |
| 10:38:04 | * | webmind has earl grey |
| 10:39:23 | Bagder | nope, no sound at all |
| 10:40:31 | * | webmind discovered a new item in his menu of his archos :) |
| 10:40:47 | webmind | u could set the timeout of the display and when it turns off |
| 10:41:17 | webmind | btw.. i've added an ext3 partition.. jukebox doens't seem to mind.. and just thinks it's an archos jukebox 17 :) |
| 10:42:47 | Linus | Bagder: what bitrate? And does the hard disk spin up again after a while? |
| 10:43:13 | Linus | webmind: what display turn off? |
| 10:43:18 | Bagder | I've tried numerous songs, I can't hear anything |
| 10:43:47 | Bagder | I tried fiddling with sound settings too, to make a diff, but it didn't change anything |
| 10:43:55 | NHeal | (timeout) lerouge.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net |
| 10:44:21 | Bagder | but I'll need to recheck my build first before I consider this a true error |
| 10:44:35 | Bagder | I might have got some ugly thing in it |
| 10:44:55 | webmind | Linus, light of the display.. |
| 10:45:01 | webmind | Linus, i noticed i could set the timeout |
| 10:45:18 | Linus | aha |
| 10:45:21 | webmind | and the timeout of wehen it should turn itself off |
| 10:45:23 | Linus | that is an old one |
| 10:45:52 | Linus | but it didn't work on the players until recently, beacuse of a bug |
| 10:46:09 | PsycoXul | how about menu+play on the player's turning off/putting into low-power mode the LCD |
| 10:46:10 | pyvasene | Linus : Did you have a look at my 'UI language selection' patch ? |
| 10:46:10 | Linus | i still can't figure out why nobody told us about it... |
| 10:46:20 | Linus | pyvasene: yes i did |
| 10:46:38 | Linus | it is fairly simple and nice |
| 10:46:50 | Linus | but it is perhaps too simple |
| 10:46:59 | Linus | the general idea is good |
| 10:47:15 | Linus | it's the string database thing that need some work |
| 10:47:16 | pyvasene | I think it's a first step but has to been improved |
| 10:49:25 | | Quit MeRWiN () |
| 10:49:35 | Linus | yes |
| 10:50:04 | Linus | we need a way (maybe a spreadsheet) to edit all strings in the project and their translations |
| 10:50:11 | Linus | both for recorder and player displays |
| 10:50:22 | Linus | and a script to generate code for it |
| 10:52:58 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 10:55:41 | Linus | PsycoXul: MENU+PLAY for backlight off? Yeah, why not? |
| 10:55:55 | PsycoXul | i said LCD off |
| 10:55:55 | PsycoXul | heh |
| 10:56:04 | PsycoXul | you know, blank screen |
| 10:56:05 | Linus | LCD off? |
| 10:56:22 | Linus | to save battery? |
| 10:56:27 | webmind | hmm |
| 10:56:33 | PsycoXul | i would think a little anyways heh |
| 10:56:55 | PsycoXul | and i don't need stuff scrolling accross the screen in my pocket |
| 10:56:57 | webmind | would that save battery then ? |
| 10:57:22 | Linus | probably, but i'm not sure how much |
| 10:57:30 | PsycoXul | well how much does the LCD use? and more or the same when its updated frequently? |
| 10:57:57 | Linus | i think we could conserve power by not updating the screen |
| 10:58:06 | Linus | but it is probably negligible |
| 10:58:31 | Linus | we can of course measure |
| 10:58:37 | PsycoXul | speaking of the backlight though, i think it's timeout setting should have an 'off' |
| 10:58:49 | Linus | instead of 0? |
| 10:58:58 | PsycoXul | i dunno |
| 10:59:14 | Linus | yeah, 0 isn't very user friendly |
| 11:00 |
| 11:01:08 | Linus | PsycoXul: but 0 shuts off the backlight for you doesn't it? |
| 11:01:44 | PsycoXul | last i checked it left it on |
| 11:02:04 | Linus | how old is your player? |
| 11:02:22 | PsycoXul | huh? |
| 11:02:53 | Linus | sorry, i am silly |
| 11:03:18 | Linus | 0 doesn't turn it off, it leaves it on... |
| 11:03:48 | PsycoXul | yeah |
| 11:04:10 | Linus | how would we want the user interface for that? |
| 11:04:34 | webmind | well |
| 11:04:36 | Linus | two options, one for on/off and one for the timer? |
| 11:04:46 | webmind | 0 should be on... but there should be an off option |
| 11:04:53 | webmind | that would be nice |
| 11:04:59 | webmind | think ot of mobile phones have that |
| 11:05:04 | PsycoXul | i was just thinking it going 'off', 0, 1, ... |
| 11:05:08 | Linus | or OFF..1..2..3..4..5..6..7..8..9..ON? |
| 11:05:29 | PsycoXul | or that |
| 11:05:29 | PsycoXul | heh |
| 11:05:58 | Linus | is a zero timeout obvious to the average user? |
| 11:06:20 | PsycoXul | i dunno |
| 11:06:44 | Linus | it's obvious for me... :-) |
| 11:06:59 | PsycoXul | well when i first saw it, i figured it'd either be on or off |
| 11:07:13 | PsycoXul | and it didn't turn off when i selected it |
| 11:07:26 | PsycoXul | and if there's an 'off' also next to it, it makes it a little more obvious |
| 11:07:35 | PsycoXul | unless they don't bother to scroll over to off |
| 11:07:36 | PsycoXul | heh |
| 11:08:57 | Linus | so OFF, 0, 1, 2 would be enough? |
| 11:08:58 | | Join yro [0] (~yves@ns1.alcove-solutions.com) |
| 11:09:08 | Linus | how many secs would be max? |
| 11:09:58 | Linus | hi yro |
| 11:11:07 | webmind | 0 timeout i think would mean that it stays on |
| 11:11:09 | webmind | or |
| 11:11:10 | webmind | off |
| 11:11:12 | webmind | uhm |
| 11:11:16 | Linus | :-) |
| 11:11:42 | Linus | maybe OFF, ON, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6...? |
| 11:13:28 | Linus | all Player users should consider compiling with SAVE_TO_DISK enabled to test it |
| 11:15:20 | Linus | Are there any more Recorder users here with silent playback? |
| 11:15:44 | yro | Hi all |
| 11:16:27 | Linus | hi |
| 11:21:39 | yro | Thx for putting the save_to_disk in the cvs ;-) |
| 11:22:12 | Linus | thanks for sending the patch |
| 11:26:25 | Linus | Bagder: still silent? |
| 11:26:48 | Bagder | well, I can't try another version until tonight when I get home, I have no USB at work |
| 11:26:56 | Linus | buah! |
| 11:27:47 | yro | Linus: Any reports on it |
| 11:28:04 | yro | yet (sorry, I have mistaken hit return...) |
| 11:29:03 | Linus | no, i guess not many people noticed the new feature |
| 11:29:14 | Linus | and it isn't on by default |
| 11:30:36 | Bagder | most people don't compile their own, they download daily builds |
| 11:31:40 | yro | It's better that way, it's highly experimental... ;-) I have to see if I can modify it so it writes the block _only_ if we modified something, |
| 11:31:54 | yro | it's way too long in the menus... |
| 11:33:15 | Linus | yro: that is how to do it. I wanted to do that, but i was lazy when i merged your patch |
| 11:34:05 | Linus | i guess one approach would be to implement a settings_changed() function, called by main_menu() |
| 11:34:10 | Bagder | grrrr, gdb goes nuts on files with a *large* amount of lines |
| 11:35:18 | yro | Linus: I wanted to yesterday too, but it was near 40°C on my desk, and it made me lazy too ;-) |
| 11:35:58 | yro | Well, I have lot of work today, I will stand-by on the channel (reading, but not so active...) |
| 11:36:06 | | Nick yro is now known as yro|work (~yves@ns1.alcove-solutions.com) |
| 11:39:35 | Linus | We should probably start writing a users manual... |
| 11:40:07 | Bagder | I got annoyed by the new way of playing songs today btw |
| 11:40:12 | Bagder | single songs |
| 11:40:57 | Fridolin | Hi ! |
| 11:41:03 | Linus | Bagder: how? |
| 11:41:09 | Linus | Fridolin: hi |
| 11:41:27 | Fridolin | I see you had nice weather in tha last few days too :-) |
| 11:41:53 | Bagder | Linus: It was how I had to leave the screen, and when I selected another song it said something about end of playlist and stuff |
| 11:41:55 | Fridolin | Linus: it seems that the PLLConfig register did the job... |
| 11:42:20 | Bagder | Linus: I'll fix my sound first, then I'll check it out more closely |
| 11:42:29 | Linus | Bagder: yes. I would rather have it to just go back to the browser |
| 11:42:54 | Linus | Fridolin: yes. I was wrong about the crystal frequency |
| 11:43:11 | Linus | and the mas_run() command didn't work |
| 11:43:59 | Fridolin | the other thing that i extracted from the mas manual is that ogg vorbis on mas seems impossible ... |
| 11:44:00 | Linus | Bagder: but the text disappeared when it started playing the next song, didnät it? |
| 11:44:09 | Bagder | yes |
| 11:44:21 | Bagder | still silly, as I didn't use any playlist |
| 11:44:28 | Fridolin | ... not only because micronas doesn't offer any development tools. |
| 11:44:45 | Linus | it says "end of file list", not "play list" |
| 11:44:54 | Bagder | whatever |
| 11:44:57 | Bagder | still confusing |
| 11:44:57 | PsycoXul | whoo |
| 11:45:04 | PsycoXul | settings saving! |
| 11:45:17 | Fridolin | I'll start brwosing the buglist. |
| 11:45:28 | Fridolin | maybe i can contribute here... |
| 11:46:32 | Linus | Hey all, how would we want the WPS to act when all files have been played? |
| 11:46:54 | Linus | i would probably want it to go back to the browser |
| 11:47:37 | yro|work | Linus: Personnaly, i'd prefer to have choice going in the browser or shutting off the player... (fine to go to sleep...) |
| 11:48:15 | Linus | yro|work: but when auto-shutoff is implemented you don't need that choice |
| 11:48:15 | Fridolin | I think going to the browser and (automatically) shutting off after some idel time would be ok. |
| 11:48:47 | Fridolin | thast what i thought ... |
| 11:48:50 | Linus | The shutdown timer will be implemented anyway |
| 11:49:18 | Linus | ok, so going back to the browser is good? |
| 11:49:42 | webmind | when ? |
| 11:50:03 | webmind | Linus, yes |
| 11:50:13 | webmind | what's the wps btw |
| 11:51:06 | Linus | While Playing Screen |
| 11:53:52 | | Quit Fridolin ("ChatZilla 0.8.8 [Mozilla rv:1.1b/20020722]") |
| 12:00 |
| 12:06:03 | Hes | yo. |
| 12:06:17 | Linus | yo, Hes! |
| 12:10:22 | webmind | Linus, well. browser mode would seem logical yes.. what else ? |
| 12:11:44 | Linus | i don't know. people generally tend to think different about everything |
| 12:11:55 | webmind | hm k |
| 12:12:05 | webmind | wouldn't know what else could be appropriate |
| 12:12:12 | Linus | so i assumed that there would be different opinions about this as well |
| 12:12:35 | webmind | damn kernel here doesn't like my jukebox anymore.. and i rm'd the src.. damn me |
| 12:12:40 | webmind | ok |
| 12:12:41 | Linus | hehe. i just browsed the data sheets for the fujitsu disk |
| 12:13:12 | Linus | Mean time between failures: More than 300000 power on hours |
| 12:13:29 | Linus | Component life: 5 years or 20000 power on hours |
| 12:13:54 | Linus | so a dying disk is not considered a failure? :-) |
| 12:14:03 | Hes | Linus: I see you sorted out the track change, excellent! |
| 12:14:07 | webmind | WARNING: USB Mass Storage data integrity not assured <−− why the hell does he keep doing that ? |
| 12:14:15 | Linus | i don't know |
| 12:14:35 | Linus | it always say that |
| 12:14:38 | Linus | says |
| 12:14:39 | Hes | Maybe they're just not sure it will work or not. |
| 12:14:45 | webmind | hehe |
| 12:14:56 | Linus | a general disclaimer |
| 12:15:50 | webmind | what was the name of the module again btw ? |
| 12:15:55 | webmind | isd_220 ? |
| 12:15:58 | webmind | or sth ? |
| 12:15:58 | Linus | usb-storage |
| 12:16:02 | webmind | the other one |
| 12:16:20 | Linus | usb-uhci |
| 12:16:22 | webmind | of the chip |
| 12:16:43 | Hes | the isd code goes in the ehci-hcd module |
| 12:16:46 | Linus | the isd200 support is included in usb-storage |
| 12:16:54 | Linus | isnät it? |
| 12:16:59 | Hes | right... usb-storage, not ehci-hcd 8-) |
| 12:17:15 | webmind | it can be compiled as module |
| 12:17:27 | Linus | yes |
| 12:17:41 | webmind | and i probably compiled it in |
| 12:17:47 | webmind | but it refuses to work |
| 12:18:06 | webmind | doesnt give me a device to mount |
| 12:18:17 | Hes | SCSI disk support enabled? |
| 12:18:27 | Linus | For some people, it refuses to work when compiled-in |
| 12:18:44 | webmind | Hes, i've used the jukebox with this very same kernel i think |
| 12:18:52 | webmind | WARNING: USB Mass Storage data integrity not assured |
| 12:18:52 | webmind | USB Mass Storage device found at 2 |
| 12:18:52 | webmind | WARNING: USB Mass Storage data integrity not assured |
| 12:18:52 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK webmind |
| 12:18:52 | webmind | USB Mass Storage device found at 2 |
| 12:18:54 | webmind | oops |
| 12:19:05 | webmind | that's the last in my dmesg |
| 12:21:38 | Bagder | using modules is a safer way to get it to work |
| 12:22:24 | webmind | uhuh |
| 12:22:37 | Bagder | I mean instead of built-in |
| 12:25:11 | webmind | uhuh |
| 12:25:14 | webmind | stupid me |
| 12:25:15 | webmind | but |
| 12:25:16 | webmind | well |
| 12:25:23 | webmind | i have spave on my hd for the src atm |
| 12:25:29 | webmind | can't recompile |
| 12:28:07 | | Nick Linus is now known as Linus|lunch (~linus@193.15.23.131) |
| 12:32:31 | | Join notch [0] (hidden-use@arthur.techprt.co.uk) |
| 12:50:30 | | Join mbr_ [0] (~tiw4mabr@rhlx01.fht-esslingen.de) |
| 12:51:32 | | Join mistaRx [0] (mistaX@t1o75p18.telia.com) |
| 12:52:09 | mistaRx | anybody tried the save settings thing?! |
| 12:53:01 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 13:00 |
| 13:14:37 | Bagder | I bet yro|work tried it ;-) |
| 13:18:01 | | Nick Linus|lunch is now known as Linus (~linus@193.15.23.131) |
| 13:18:04 | Linus | i have |
| 13:23:43 | Hes | Btw... someone reported a bug in directory browsing, I have now seen it some 5 times myself: |
| 13:24:14 | Hes | I click 'right' to enter a subdirectory, the HD led starts but the disk does not spin up, |
| 13:24:55 | Hes | the directory listing does not change, a new cursor is drawn by the first item and the old cursor does not disappear |
| 13:25:13 | Hes | recovers by clicking to the left |
| 13:26:01 | yro|work | mistaRx: True, I use it ;-) |
| 13:26:36 | Hes | The crashes on track change really seem to be gone. |
| 13:27:21 | Hes | Played quite some music in a full bus during the weekend, no crashes <whew> |
| 13:27:50 | Hes | travelling to the countryside & back with student club |
| 13:28:58 | Bagder | :-) |
| 13:31:13 | Linus | Yeah, i saw the subdir "hang" this morning |
| 13:35:05 | | Quit mistaRx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 13:45:47 | Hes | Linus: have you looked into charging yet? |
| 13:45:53 | Hes | If not, I could do that now... |
| 13:46:25 | Linus | Please do so. |
| 13:46:38 | Linus | I have been thinking about that |
| 13:46:55 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 13:46:55 | * | Bagder throws in a hand of moral support |
| 13:46:56 | Linus | about the end-of-charge criteria |
| 13:46:57 | Hes | Any ideas (apart from the non-trivials tuff)? |
| 13:47:09 | Hes | (from the trivial stuff that is) |
| 13:47:22 | Linus | first of all, we need a hysteresis for the start/stop |
| 13:47:46 | Linus | we also need to monitor the voltage, possibly looking for a negative delta |
| 13:48:22 | Hes | also a timer in case the negative delta detection fails for some reason |
| 13:48:29 | Linus | the voltage changes will be quite slow |
| 13:48:40 | Linus | so a negative delta might never be detected |
| 13:49:09 | Linus | and also only read the battery voltage when the disk is idle and the charger is off |
| 13:49:37 | Hes | Probably we should stop charging after the delta has been small for a long time (even though it would have been positive) |
| 13:49:42 | Linus | we turn off the charger to read the battery voltage |
| 13:50:02 | Linus | yeah, a zero-delta timer is probably good |
| 13:50:12 | Linus | and maybe a minimum charge time |
| 13:50:29 | Hes | only start measuring the delta after charging for a little time |
| 13:50:37 | Linus | yeah |
| 13:50:57 | Hes | I wouldn't stop the charger for the measurement, I don't think any of the manufacturer suggested designs did that |
| 13:51:12 | Hes | it will take quite some time before the voltage stabilizes after you disconnect the charger |
| 13:51:19 | Linus | ok |
| 13:51:25 | Linus | 1) max 16hrs charge time |
| 13:51:31 | Linus | 2) Stop at negative delta |
| 13:51:38 | Linus | 3) Stop at 3hrs zero-delta |
| 13:51:47 | Linus | 4) mininmum 3hrs charge |
| 13:52:06 | Hes | I would use some 15 mins for 4) to get over the initial bumps |
| 13:52:13 | Linus | ok |
| 13:52:20 | Linus | 4) mininmum 15min charge |
| 13:52:43 | Hes | having 3 hours would ruin things for people who stick the charger in a fully-loaded unit to keep them powered in fixed location use 8-) |
| 13:53:08 | Hes | 5) after stopping charging, wait for charge go down to, say, 80% before charging again |
| 13:53:17 | Linus | yes |
| 13:53:45 | Linus | what would we do in the case of fixed-location? |
| 13:54:15 | Hes | Probably the ideal would be to discharge pretty well (to 10% or so) before charging again |
| 13:54:44 | Hes | BUT that would ruin things for people who expect to have the device well charged after they've left it in the charger overnight |
| 13:56:09 | mbr_ | Would it be possible to add such a discharge option? |
| 13:56:19 | Bagder | I'd vote for a special option for people in "fixed locations" |
| 13:56:20 | Hes | Maybe we could make that configurable. Or discharge to 10% if the device is being used (HD activity seen) and keep it up at 80-90% if it's not used. |
| 13:56:22 | mbr_ | Possibly enable it for the next cycle? |
| 14:00 |
| 14:00:02 | Hes | I think most chargers (the nokia ones I have had, like 5 or so, and the Canon digital camera charger, etc) detect an already-full battery within a minute of charging |
| 14:00:51 | Hes | But if we implement the above logic, we can fine-tune the timers later |
| 14:01:04 | * | Bagder agrees |
| 14:02:49 | notch | can you set the current for a trickle charge? or is it just on/off |
| 14:02:56 | Hes | on/off only |
| 14:03:03 | notch | :-( |
| 14:03:31 | Hes | we can do trickle charging of course (adjust the duty cycle) |
| 14:03:46 | Hes | charge for a few seconds and sleep for N |
| 14:03:56 | notch | good option for those plugged into mains |
| 14:04:22 | Hes | Some manufactures specifically say trickle charging is not good for Ni-MH |
| 14:04:26 | Hes | some don't. |
| 14:04:54 | Hes | But it's generally done a lot for backup power systems |
| 14:04:58 | notch | It's normaly 10% of capacity - could make it 5% to be 'safe' |
| 14:05:04 | notch | I that is |
| 14:05:54 | | Quit ironi (Remote closed the connection) |
| 14:11:13 | | Join ironi_ [0] (~ironi@80.88.116.93) |
| 14:14:41 | Linus | Normal charging is usually C/10 |
| 14:14:59 | Linus | Trickle charge nis normally C/50 |
| 14:16:04 | Linus | hehe , i purchased a quick charger this weekend |
| 14:16:22 | Linus | 1 hour for 1800mAh batteries |
| 14:16:27 | Linus | they get hot |
| 14:17:02 | Hes | No doubt 8-) |
| 14:17:57 | notch | Some battery resellers state that applying a continuous trickle charge of about 1/10th the battery's capacity is not harmful. However, we have not seen any battery manufacturer condone the practice. |
| 14:18:41 | Linus | The first player models have a constant C/10 rate |
| 14:18:45 | notch | -Quote from 'green batterys' website... now I'm confused! |
| 14:19:15 | Linus | even when they are full, it cannot be stopped |
| 14:19:38 | notch | Does it shag the batterys? |
| 14:20:09 | Linus | they get warm after a while |
| 14:20:24 | Linus | i guess that is the reason they shipped it with two sets of batteries |
| 14:20:27 | Linus | :-) |
| 14:20:39 | notch | yeah I kinda wondered about that :-) |
| 14:21:18 | Linus | Actually, the charger can't be stopped on any of the Player models, as far as i can see |
| 14:22:12 | Linus | We will probably need to detect the CPU frequency on the recorders, BTW |
| 14:22:28 | Linus | there are recorders with 12MHz out there |
| 14:22:39 | notch | Why doesnt charging work in the Rockbox software? |
| 14:22:48 | Hes | Small beauty thing: after playing to end-of-songlist (i play directories) while in directory browser instead of WPS, when I select a new song to be played, I get an end-of-songlist display for a short while before the new song starts |
| 14:22:56 | Linus | notch: we don't turn on the charger |
| 14:23:02 | notch | How do you know if you have an 11.059Mhz or 12Mhz version? |
| 14:23:21 | Linus | Hes: yeah, that is a known issue |
| 14:23:22 | elinenbe2 | Linus: the pitch/speed control bug that you fixed this weekend, what was it? |
| 14:23:26 | Hes | Maybe should display some 'Loading' text before we get the new Id3 tag... animated icons, anyone? 8-) |
| 14:23:43 | Linus | elinenbe2: wrong PLL settings for the crystal |
| 14:24:12 | Linus | notch: you don't know the frequency if you don't open the box |
| 14:24:18 | Linus | but we can measure it |
| 14:24:29 | Linus | using the RTC |
| 14:24:38 | elinenbe2 | Linus: is it possible to adjust that on the fly so a user can modify the pitch of their songs? |
| 14:24:47 | elinenbe2 | Linus: during playback? |
| 14:24:56 | Linus | elinenbe2: in theory, yes |
| 14:25:02 | Linus | but i think the playback might stop |
| 14:25:10 | Hes | So HZ needs to be a variable then? |
| 14:25:17 | Linus | and the PLL calculations are a little tricy |
| 14:25:23 | Linus | Hes: yes |
| 14:25:29 | elinenbe2 | ah, this would be a DJs ultimate machine |
| 14:26:07 | Linus | elinenbe2: but i don't know what happens while the PLL is locking |
| 14:26:27 | Linus | but we can always experiment |
| 14:27:02 | elinenbe2 | that would be awesome |
| 14:27:05 | | Nick elinenbe2 is now known as elinenbe (trilluser@pcp02254422pcs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) |
| 14:28:03 | Linus | still, we can't change it more than a few percent |
| 14:28:19 | elinenbe | Linus: why is that? |
| 14:28:33 | Linus | because the PLL has a limited frequency range |
| 14:28:52 | elinenbe | ah. |
| 14:29:28 | Linus | and we are actually barely within limits on the 48KHz PLL |
| 14:30:19 | notch | in order to get the frequency, could we execute a bit of asm that has a 'known' execution time, ie an loop, and compart this time to the RTC? |
| 14:30:41 | Linus | notch: no, we start a timer and compare it to the RTC |
| 14:30:57 | notch | okay that's much easier! |
| 14:31:11 | notch | spent too much time on pics! |
| 14:31:25 | Linus | PICs are nice |
| 14:32:07 | Linus | i don't know if we can identify what recorder models have 12MHz |
| 14:32:25 | Linus | if we could, we wouldn't have to measure the freq |
| 14:32:51 | Linus | i discovered it by accident |
| 14:33:06 | Linus | by looking at the pictures on the rockbox site |
| 14:33:15 | notch | Would they have to change the firmware for each freq? |
| 14:33:26 | Linus | probably |
| 14:33:40 | notch | then it must be related to serial number... |
| 14:33:43 | Bagder | unless they measure ;-) |
| 14:33:48 | Linus | otherwise they might have problems with the serial port (remote control) |
| 14:33:49 | notch | hehe |
| 14:33:58 | Linus | yeah, they might measure |
| 14:34:16 | Linus | i have always wondered why it takes so much time to boot |
| 14:34:48 | Linus | this could be one explanation |
| 14:34:50 | Hes | Is charger_inserted() in drivers/power.c correct? |
| 14:34:56 | Linus | it should be |
| 14:35:35 | Hes | Could someone please add comments to the ADC_ defines in adc.h? |
| 14:35:49 | Linus | but it isn't correct... |
| 14:35:51 | Linus | :-) |
| 14:35:52 | Hes | What is connected where... |
| 14:36:01 | Linus | it should be ADC_EXT_POWER |
| 14:36:15 | Hes | So it actually measures the voltage on ADC_EXT_POWER? |
| 14:36:19 | Hes | and checks if it's up |
| 14:36:21 | Linus | Hes: what is not obvious? |
| 14:36:35 | Hes | ADC_UNREG_POWER |
| 14:36:37 | Linus | about the ADC_ defines? |
| 14:37:03 | Hes | ADC_UNREG_POWER is from the battery before the regulator? |
| 14:37:12 | Hes | ADC_EXT_POWER is from the xt power input? |
| 14:37:20 | Hes | but what is ADC_BATTERY then? |
| 14:41:08 | Linus | ADC_BATTERY is the battery |
| 14:41:37 | Hes | and ADC_UNREG_POWER? |
| 14:42:31 | Linus | i am confused now |
| 14:42:36 | Linus | let me think |
| 14:42:52 | Linus | oh yes |
| 14:43:14 | Linus | the ADC_BATTERY is the voltage from the batteries, but what a silly scale |
| 14:43:22 | Linus | so we always read 3FF |
| 14:43:22 | Hes | Because currently we read ADC_UNREG_POWER only |
| 14:43:35 | Hes | So ADC_BATTERY is unusable? |
| 14:43:42 | Linus | yes |
| 14:43:53 | Hes | Okay. Now comment this in drivers/adc.h please 8-) |
| 14:44:12 | Linus | ok |
| 14:44:14 | Linus | :-) |
| 14:44:16 | Hes | Thanks |
| 14:44:37 | Hes | And others too if possible |
| 14:44:54 | Hes | usb power, charge regulator |
| 14:47:23 | | Join jedix [0] (~liam@fwott1-1.cis.ec.gc.ca) |
| 14:53:04 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 14:58:22 | Linus | Hes: update you CVS |
| 15:00 |
| 15:00:13 | Hes | thanks |
| 15:00:37 | Linus | The ADC_BATTERY voltage puzzles me |
| 15:01:13 | Linus | it is taken directly from the battery with a strange divider |
| 15:01:48 | Linus | the ADC input is about 3.6V or something, if i remember correctly |
| 15:01:58 | Linus | far above VCC |
| 15:02:13 | Linus | and that is definitely not recommended |
| 15:04:18 | Hes | ADC_USB_POWER is the power input from the USB bus? the power itself is not used for anything else than detecting if USB is connected? |
| 15:08:45 | Linus | it seems, looking at the schematics, that the unit parasites from that power when connected |
| 15:11:13 | Linus | but i don't see how |
| 15:11:19 | Linus | and AN3 is still amystery |
| 15:11:54 | Linus | AN3 stays at the same level almost all the time, except for when USB is connected, then it goes to 0x3ff |
| 15:16:25 | | Join elinenbe2 [0] (trilluser@pcp02254422pcs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) |
| 15:16:26 | | Quit elinenbe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 15:16:28 | | Quit Hes (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 15:16:39 | | Join Hes [0] (~hessu@hessu.zedi.sonera.fi) |
| 15:37:59 | notch | that whole charging/battery circuitry is a little... well... abstract |
| 15:38:36 | notch | It must have been 'cost effective' :-) |
| 15:39:43 | Linus | and simple |
| 15:40:14 | Linus | a regulator and an on/off control. what more could you ask for? :-) |
| 15:41:37 | Bagder | progress bar?! :-P |
| 15:43:47 | Linus | Bagder: a progress bar in hardware. that would be cool ...(?) |
| 15:44:15 | elinenbe2 | Linus: I want seek like an ipod! :) |
| 15:44:21 | Bagder | ... I'll build a separate box for it and sell it to people! :-) |
| 15:44:24 | | Nick elinenbe2 is now known as elinenbe (trilluser@pcp02254422pcs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) |
| 15:44:42 | Linus | and what exactly is "seek like an ipod"? |
| 15:44:42 | elinenbe | I say we take what is learned from the Archos, and build our own uber-jukebox. |
| 15:45:43 | elinenbe | Linus: hehe −− go here and then play a song http://www.apple.com/ipod/userinterface.html |
| 15:47:03 | Bagder | I miss a breakout game |
| 15:50:23 | Linus | That is because you haven't written one |
| 15:50:58 | Bagder | If no one else does, I'll write one |
| 15:51:15 | Bagder | I'm *starting* to catch up on my emails now |
| 15:54:35 | Linus | hehe |
| 15:55:43 | Linus | i'm currently being called once a day by an old-school corporate guy who thinks that calling people in person is *the* way of getting support for cURL! |
| 15:57:20 | Bagder | I actually got a mail from a guy asking for an address for mailing a cheque! |
| 15:58:25 | Linus | For support? |
| 15:59:02 | Bagder | more like "from our team for your good support" |
| 15:59:34 | Bagder | first time this happened to me |
| 15:59:44 | Linus | that's incredibly nice |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:11 | Linus | and thoughtful |
| 16:01:41 | Bagder | brings back my belief in the existance of good people "out there" ;-) |
| 16:03:44 | Hes | Getting envelopes with cheques for good support has it's drawbacks though 8-) They might expect for some more from you. |
| 16:04:03 | Bagder | yeah |
| 16:21:19 | Linus | Are there any bugs/quirks in the current code that need to be fixed before we release 1.2? |
| 16:21:39 | Linus | I'm not talking about the persistent settings or the battery charging |
| 16:22:12 | Linus | We will probably not include those in 1.2 |
| 16:24:42 | Linus | Bagder: the bug report retrieving script for the rockbox main page bugs |
| 16:24:54 | Bagder | Björn wrote it :-) |
| 16:25:20 | Bagder | what's wrong? |
| 16:25:41 | Linus | It excludes bugs that are older than 30 days |
| 16:25:48 | Bagder | oh |
| 16:26:05 | Linus | convenient, but not entirely correct :-) |
| 16:26:39 | Bagder | hehe |
| 16:26:52 | Hes | Probably it should make note of that, and show '1485 bugs not listed here' after the list 8-) |
| 16:30:49 | | Quit yro|work ("ircII EPIC4-1.1.5 -- Are we there yet?") |
| 16:32:44 | Bagder | I found out why it bugs |
| 16:38:38 | Bagder | corrected now |
| 16:39:00 | Bagder | the crontab runs every 20 mins |
| 16:49:47 | Hes | Linus: usb mode only works in directory view & playing, not in the menus |
| 16:49:53 | Hes | that could be fixed if possible |
| 16:50:09 | Linus | Yeah |
| 16:53:08 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 16:54:07 | Bagder | I'm off for home |
| 16:54:10 | | Part Bagder |
| 17:00 |
| 17:04:21 | | Quit geoffeg ("changing servers") |
| 17:07:45 | Linus | Hes: what would we want to do when USB is inserted when in a menu? |
| 17:07:53 | Linus | is it acceptable to leave the menu? |
| 17:08:12 | Linus | and always return to the dir browser after USB is finished? |
| 17:08:41 | Hes | Dunno. I think archos reboots or something, which is an overkill 8-) |
| 17:08:49 | Hes | at least it reboots if you replace the firmware file |
| 17:08:50 | Linus | or stay cool and return to the point where we were? |
| 17:09:05 | Hes | Returning to the point where we were would be nicest i think |
| 17:09:15 | Hes | if that can be applied (can't return to WPS of course) |
| 17:09:17 | Linus | and reread the root dir when we return to the dir browser |
| 17:09:37 | Hes | If in wps or dir browser => to root dir |
| 17:09:54 | Hes | if in menu => back to menu and then to root dir when exiting to the browser |
| 17:10:06 | Linus | ok |
| 17:10:18 | Linus | (takes some work...) |
| 17:10:27 | Hes | yup... |
| 17:10:37 | Linus | the menu code has no return code |
| 17:12:09 | Linus | all code that gets events from a message queue must handle the SYS_USB_CONNECTED message |
| 17:12:45 | Linus | and tell its caller that it has done so |
| 17:12:55 | Linus | possibly via a return code |
| 17:13:51 | Linus | thus, tree.c can reread the dir if main_menu() returns SYS_USB_CONNECTED |
| 17:14:01 | Linus | just like wps |
| 17:15:05 | | Quit pyvasene (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 17:20:39 | Hes | Seems charger_inserted() requires at least a bit over 7v from the charger to detect it to be present |
| 17:20:53 | Linus | yes? |
| 17:21:08 | Hes | and it returns false for a few seconds after charging is enabled. |
| 17:21:26 | Hes | Not bad but an interesting effect, someone will post it as a bug. 8-) |
| 17:21:26 | Linus | aha, maybe we should lower the limit a little |
| 17:22:00 | Hes | Yes, a little. Maybe a bit over the max battery voltage with full charge. |
| 17:22:16 | Linus | do so |
| 17:22:44 | Hes | Will do, have to measure the peak voltage with full batteries... |
| 17:26:12 | | Join mistaRx [0] (mistaX@212.181.184.230) |
| 17:33:35 | | Part Linus |
| 18:00 |
| 18:04:56 | | Join MeRWiN [0] (~merwin@12-230-192-86.client.attbi.com) |
| 18:07:06 | MeRWiN | Does the player charge while it's plugged in and on yet? |
| 18:08:27 | Hes | I would suppose it does? |
| 18:08:58 | Hes | the charger is not software controlled, if I understood things right. |
| 18:09:08 | MeRWiN | OK, I remember someone saying that it didn't last week... I plugged mine in and the voltage seemed to go up, so that means that it's charging, yes? |
| 18:09:27 | Hes | I'm just writing code for the software charging logic on the recorder. |
| 18:09:39 | Hes | Yes, that definetely means it is charging. |
| 18:09:48 | MeRWiN | okey... wonderful. |
| 18:26:24 | | Quit mistaRx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 18:27:52 | | Quit notch () |
| 18:49:43 | | Quit MeRWiN () |
| 18:53:09 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 19:00 |
| 19:18:29 | Hes | Trying out the charger code now. |
| 19:30:20 | Hes | Ended up disabling all ata sleeping and spindowns to maximize power usage 8-) |
| 19:30:37 | Hes | and setting backlight timer to 0 |
| 19:44:16 | | Join WetFlax [0] (~wettoad@flax.mbi-berlin.de) |
| 19:49:09 | Hes | http://hes.iki.fi/misc/rockbox-charging.jpg |
| 19:49:18 | Hes | The voltage drop at full charge is visible nicely. |
| 19:55:16 | elinenbe | is that applet in the cvs? |
| 19:55:18 | elinenbe | Hes? |
| 20:00 |
| 20:04:26 | Hes | Nope. |
| 20:15:38 | Hes | I'm still working on the full charge detection tuning |
| 20:15:49 | Hes | Will post the patch once I think it works |
| 20:16:43 | Hes | if it seems ok for the core developers with CVS access, and it's found to be working, it'll possibly go in CVS |
| 20:25:11 | | Join Mighty [0] (mboss@h76n2fls35o931.telia.com) |
| 20:25:26 | Mighty | hello |
| 20:27:06 | | Quit Mighty (Client Quit) |
| 20:53:13 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 22:00 |
| 22:13:26 | | Quit jedix ("Client Exiting") |
| 22:53:14 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 23:00 |
| 23:16:53 | | Join Bagder [0] (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) |
| 23:18:01 | | Join matp [0] (~matp@pc-80-193-180-51-hw.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 23:18:33 | matp | whats up? |
| 23:20:16 | Bagder | not much |
| 23:21:18 | Hes | I think have a working charger. |
| 23:21:28 | Bagder | cool! |
| 23:22:25 | Hes | http://hes.iki.fi/misc/rockbox-charging.jpg |
| 23:22:43 | Hes | The voltage drop at full charge is visible nicely. |
| 23:23:24 | Bagder | neat |
| 23:23:45 | matp | nice! |
| 23:24:18 | Hes | If I only knew easily if the hd is spinning or not |
| 23:24:22 | matp | what remains for a 1.2 release |
| 23:24:40 | Bagder | nothing really, we're about to make one any day now |
| 23:25:06 | Bagder | we save the charging and the saving to disk for 1.3 |
| 23:25:30 | Hes | those things need quite a bit of testing |
| 23:25:32 | matp | is rockbox supposed to drain the power when the power cable is plugged in? |
| 23:25:48 | matp | yeah, they are big features |
| 23:25:49 | Hes | yes, it is (on the recorder) |
| 23:26:12 | matp | can we not prevent that |
| 23:26:28 | Hes | yes, the charger code i wrote tonight does just that |
| 23:27:00 | Hes | the unit cannot be powered from the external supply without charging the battery at the same time. |
| 23:27:11 | matp | i see. it doesn't charge the battery, just uses power when external power is connected |
| 23:27:36 | matp | ok, got you |
| 23:28:50 | matp | what is average battery life now? I'm lucky to get 6 hours |
| 23:29:47 | Hes | I haven't measured... |
| 23:30:17 | matp | i think it's acceptable for this release. It would be nice to get what archos get from their firmware though. |
| 23:30:45 | Bagder | I expect that we'll reach there eventually |
| 23:31:19 | matp | we can console ourselves with the fact that we have MUCH better features |
| 23:34:06 | Bagder | yeah, we've started out pretty good already |
| 23:37:53 | matp | is the current cvs stable? I haven't updated since Friday. I've had no issues this weekend, but there's been a lot of activity since then :) |
| 23:38:44 | Bagder | I think it's pretty stable |
| 23:38:49 | Hes | seems to be. |
| 23:39:57 | Bagder | I might have a problem with it, soon to find out for sure |
| 23:41:32 | Bagder | false alarm, works fine |
| 23:41:46 | Bagder | my build was just screwed yesterday |
| 23:41:56 | matp | was it you that was getting no sound? |
| 23:42:08 | Bagder | yeah |
| 23:42:26 | Bagder | there's some dependency problem in some makefile I guess |
| 23:42:37 | Bagder | I made a make clean and make again now and it works fine |
| 23:42:50 | matp | Hes: are you able to detect accurately when the battery is fully charged? |
| 23:43:32 | matp | Bagder: too much hacking :) |
| 23:43:38 | | Join mistaRx [0] (mistaX@212.181.184.161) |
| 23:44:09 | mistaRx | anybody who'd like to help me?! |
| 23:44:09 | Bagder | actually, it was too *little* hacking ;-) |
| 23:44:26 | Bagder | I hadn't updated my repository for a month while I was on vacation |
| 23:44:38 | Bagder | mistaRx: with what? |
| 23:45:04 | mistaRx | have u tested the save settings thing?! |
| 23:45:16 | * | Bagder hasn't |
| 23:45:44 | mistaRx | mmhhmmm |
| 23:45:44 | Bagder | but then, I have a recorder ;-) |
| 23:45:54 | * | matp also |
| 23:47:34 | mistaRx | how do u "#define SAVE_TO_DISK"(I'm not a programmer..) |
| 23:47:53 | Bagder | uh, you add that in the Makefile and rebuild |
| 23:48:08 | Bagder | you want such a build? |
| 23:48:58 | mistaRx | yes please, can't u do that and then let me download it from somewhere.. |
| 23:49:05 | Bagder | http://storebror.haxx.se/archos/ |
| 23:49:49 | mistaRx | roger that! |
| 23:49:55 | Bagder | it's the cutting edge CVS sources, the player ones built with SAVE_TO_DISK |
| 23:50:59 | mistaRx | ok, do u know if it in any way COULD hurt my old player?! |
| 23:51:24 | Bagder | in *any* way? |
| 23:51:30 | Bagder | then I'd have to sat yes |
| 23:51:31 | Bagder | say |
| 23:51:44 | mistaRx | well I haven't got a backup on my files on my player! |
| 23:52:11 | Bagder | I know people have tried it and survived to tell their story ;-) |
| 23:52:18 | mistaRx | =) |
| 23:52:32 | mistaRx | u are one of the programmers, no?! |
| 23:52:48 | Bagder | I am |
| 23:53:03 | Bagder | one in crowd ;-) |
| 23:53:06 | mistaRx | I haven't seen that u have done so much on the rockbox |
| 23:53:12 | Bagder | the crowd even |
| 23:53:19 | Bagder | hm |
| 23:53:31 | Bagder | I'm Daniel Stenberg, I've done quite a fair share I'd say |
| 23:54:02 | mistaRx | but u have been on vacation, right?! |
| 23:54:06 | Bagder | yeps |
| 23:54:15 | Bagder | only slowly coming back in the game |
| 23:56:09 | matp | Hes: have you much experience of using archos as a recorder? |
| 23:59:18 | mistaRx | I think that rockbox needs 2 more things: save settings, skipping "management" to really compete with the stock firmware! |
| 23:59:44 | mistaRx | other then that it ROCKS the box! =) |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).