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#rockbox log for 2002-07-30

00:02:31Hesmatp: No, not really
00:02:38Hesjust have tried it up for a few seconds for now
00:03:06HesDone a little recording on the laptop before, with an Edirol UA-5 USB A/D-D/A box
00:03:18mistaRxcan the rockbox for recorders record?!
00:03:25HesNot yet
00:03:36mistaRxare u a programmer to?!
00:04:31Hesmatp: I think the negative delta voltage detection works quite well now
00:04:47BagdermistaRx: not yet, no
00:05:07Heswill have to try it a few times from a fully discharged condition
00:05:19matpHes: I have elec and opt digital out on my cd player. i have elec in and opt in on my minidisc. i have a mini-jack to phono lead
00:05:23Hesfrom around 80% it seemed to work
00:06:48matpHes: now using the minidisc as a DAC with the lead works fine. But when I try and record using the same lead from my cd player, it either doesn't recognise the input, or says something like: "digital copying not allowed"
00:07:37matpHes: I get diffrent results if I use the left or right phono plug. Do I need a better lead, or is something busted here?
00:08:24HesOne phono plug is in, one is out
00:09:12matpseems to be correct with my findings. but I get the weird message. Is this SCMS or something?
00:09:24HesProbably yes.
00:10:13matpseems to be correct with my findings. but I get the weird message. Is this SCMS or something?
00:10:22HesProbably yes.
00:10:50HesDigital recording from the digital output of my Edirol UA-5 did work.
00:11:14matpI meant to say I thought I was allowed to make 1 digital copy (e.g minidisc). after which the SCMS bit is missing, and it legitmately wont copy
00:11:46matpIs this a bug in archos firmware then?
00:12:08HesI don't know, might be. We'll see when we have recording in rockbox 8-)
00:12:12elinenbeif you name a file on the recorder SCMSOFF
00:12:22elinenbethen that will get rid of the copy protection.
00:12:27HesOooh? 8-)
00:13:03matpeven so, I should be able to make ONE copy anyway
00:13:21elinenbewell, I guess it doesn't conform to the standard.
00:13:27matpseems pointless of having a recorder if I cant record my cds
00:13:55HesYou're right, you should be able to do so
00:14:04HesIt might also be a problem on your CD player too
00:14:05matpWell, another feature we can beat them on :)
00:14:38matpI can make copies to my minidisc OK using optical. i haven't tried electrical yet
00:15:04matpdoes this file need to appear in the root directory, and is it case sensitive?
00:15:21elinenbehere is the exact directions
00:15:31elinenbe- Record MP3: Before record enter to the destination directory. Then adjust Artist, Album, Title!, Source and Quality.
00:15:31elinenbe- - Start Recording
00:15:31elinenbe- - - Right/Left: Adjust recording level at any moment.
00:15:31DBUGEnqueued KICK elinenbe
00:15:31elinenbe- - - Play: Start recording.
00:15:31elinenbe- - - F2-Next: Split current recording in a new part.
00:15:32***Alert Mode level 1
00:15:32elinenbe- - - F3-Stop: Stop recording.
00:15:34elinenbe- Record MP3: Before record enter to the destination directory. Then adjust Artist, Album, Title!, Source and Quality.
00:15:38elinenbe- - Start Recording
00:15:39elinenbe- - - Right/Left: Adjust recording level at any moment.
00:15:42elinenbe- - - Play: Start recording.
00:15:44elinenbe- - - F2-Next: Split current recording in a new part.
00:15:46elinenbe- - - F3-Stop: Stop recording.
00:15:48elinenbe- Record MP3: Before record enter to the destination directory. Then adjust Artist, Album, Title!, Source and Quality.
00:15:50elinenbeoops sorry
00:15:52elinenbe- - Change Artist: To disable/enable the digital Serial Copyright Management System enter HFSCMSOFF/HFSCMSON in this field and press F1-Enter.
00:16:02elinenbethere you go.
00:17:02HesBedtime, good night
00:17:11elinenbegoodnight. good work today.
00:17:19matpbye Hes
00:17:23Bagdernight hes
00:17:25elinenbepost a diff to the mailing list −− I want to try it out!
00:18:27matpelinenbe: have you tried it?
00:18:40matpthe SCMS that is
00:23:47mistaRxdoes/will rockbox support remote control?!
00:24:11Bagderif someone writes the code for it, it will
00:24:49Bagderand I bet someone will
00:25:05mistaRxmaybe bagder will
00:25:19BagderI'm not likely to write that, as I don't have a remote ;-)
00:25:33***Alert Mode OFF
00:25:39matpi gotta split guys. night all
00:25:51Bagdernight matp
00:25:52mistaRxmaybe bagder will go out and by a remote an write the code to use it
00:26:09 Quit matp ("Client Exiting")
00:28:53mistaRx556.25 kr for an accesory kit on dustin(the only ones that have it in sweden I think..
00:31:39mistaRxjust a thought..
00:32:13BagderBjörn has a kit, he can do the code ;-)
00:32:35mistaRxwell anybody tested the remote, I've heard that it can't turn on the archos, and does it hurt the sound quality?!
00:32:56Bagderno it doesn't hurt the quality
00:33:14Bagderit just sends some serial input to the box
00:33:27mistaRxhave u tested it(björn is your brother, right?!)
00:34:05Bagderhe's my brother, yes, and yes he has tested it on the stock firmware and I know they worked out how it worked before, so there's some notes on the site about it
00:34:56mistaRxwell do u think that the rockbox will be able to turn it on from the remote?!
00:36:10mistaRxbut it can turn it on and everything else that the PLAYERS can do with the regualr buttons?!
00:36:18mistaRxturn it off
00:36:36Bagderyes, I think so
00:40:20mistaRxis it bad quality..?
00:41:16Bagderthe remote? I don't know
00:45:32elinenbeI have heard it is.
00:47:39mistaRxme too.
00:52:24mistaRxwhat about the sony wired remote modding..?!
00:53:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:54:42mistaRxfirst of all, where do u get the remote?!
01:00:40BagderI'm off to bed, night!
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01:28:49masta-Zanybody awake?!
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02:00:19masta-Znight everybody..
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04:20:56Mightyzagor has been offline for several days?
04:20:59Mightysomeone's awake?
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06:33:18MeRWiNdead night, huh?
06:33:37adi|homenah.. just ppl in diff timezones
06:33:49MeRWiNI just switched a few of them today
06:34:05MeRWiNand found about 10 new bugs in the rockbox while on the airplane
06:35:22MeRWiNany clue when linus usually drops by? I've got a couple issues to bring with his SAVE_TO_DISK stuff
06:35:36adi|homeheheh are they still in the system.. or have they already been cleaned out?
06:35:55adi|homeusually... after 2am est
06:36:39MeRWiNah k. things like shuffle not working right, WPS problems, Keylock problems, scroll speed issues
06:36:41MeRWiNthat kind of thing
06:44:53MeRWiN11 issues to be exact :)
06:45:40MeRWiNI do User Acceptance Testing for a living (for VoiceStream/T-Mobile wireless)... testing UI's, Networks, General functionality, etc. I'm paid to be picky. heh
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06:53:19MeRWiNhaving problems adi?
06:53:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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06:58:22adi|homeyeayh.. my connection was giving me issues
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06:59:09MeRWiN-apparently mine is too :)
06:59:13 Nick MeRWiN- is now known as MeRWiN (~merwin@
06:59:26MeRWiNso how does one begin developing for this project
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08:29:10Linushaha i was here before you, bagder!
08:29:16Linus(1 second)
08:29:27LinusAny sound?
08:29:31Bagderyeah, I actually read a lot of emails before I joined IRC today ;-)
08:29:34BagderI have sound!
08:29:42Bagderbad build yesterday
08:29:48Bagdersome non-working dependency
08:29:49Linusbut backlight problems...
08:30:07Bagderminor ones though
08:32:00Linusalthough very fixable
08:32:39BagderI thought so too
08:34:52Linusdid you find out what the bad dependency was?
08:35:05BagderI did a make clean and rebuilt everything
08:35:10Bagderand then it worked fine
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08:40:44Linusi looked into the problem about not going to USB mode when i the menus yesterday
08:40:44Linusi looked into the problem about not going to USB mode when i the menus yesterday
08:40:44Linusin the menus
08:40:44Linusthat is not entirely simple
08:40:49Linusall menu functions return void
08:41:24 Quit Hadaka (Remote closed the connection)
08:41:27Linusand they have to tell dirbrowse to reread the root dir somehow
08:41:29 Join Hadaka [0] (naked@
08:42:37Linusi was thinking of adding a file to the firmware containing a default message handler
08:43:09Linusthat is supposed to be called at the default: case of all message switches
08:43:45Linusthat one would take care of the SYS_USB_CONNECTED/SYS/USB_DISCONNECTED messages
08:44:12Linusso we wont clutter all button_get() loops with USB stuff
08:44:21Linuswhat do you think?
08:44:22Bagdersounds like a good idea
08:44:52Linusstill, that doesn't solve the problem with dirbrowse and menus
08:45:29Linusdirbrowse calls main_menu(), which returns void
08:45:36Bagderwe change the return type
08:45:46Linusi did that yesterday...
08:45:46Bagderand return something for re-read signalling
08:45:56Linusthat was a loooooooooot of files
08:46:18Bagdercan we do it any other way?
08:46:21Linusand i felt that i needed to do the default message handler first
08:46:57Linusactually i don't think we can do it much differently
08:47:09Linusif we want to stay cool
08:47:20Linusand we want that
08:47:27Bagderwe want c00lness ;-)
08:50:21Bagderis that line in the bottom of the recorder display the battery indicator?
08:52:59Linusyeah, Zagor is an aestetic guru!
08:53:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:55:20LinusThe UI needs major work
08:55:39CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
08:55:39*Bagder nods
08:55:45LinusStatus indicator (battery, play/pause...) and function key hints
08:57:45Bagderwc -l /home/majordom/lists/rockbox
08:57:45Bagder 206 /home/majordom/lists/rockbox
08:58:50Linusquite a crowd
08:59:22Linussomw people complain about very late mails from the list
08:59:57BagderI've seen that happen before with majordomo
09:00:18Bagderone of the reasons I moved the curl list to mailman
09:03:34LinusSo, when do we release 1.2?
09:03:41LinusI think the USb issue can wait
09:04:19Linuswhy not? I have nothing i need to add
09:04:37LinusI anticipate that people will complain about the battery charging
09:05:06BagderI checkout a clean CVS tree now
09:05:21LinusWe need a good README/User's manual
09:05:35LinusAnd i don't know hoe the simulators work
09:06:52Linusi have a feeling that the battery life is *very* short on the recorder
09:07:37BagderI run my now, I'll soon figure it out ;-)
09:10:44Bagderboth simulators seem to work
09:14:37Bagderso we need to write up a release notes file
09:21:57 Join MeRWiN [0] (~merwin@
09:24:50Bagderso, what are the changes since 1.1? ;-)
09:25:56MeRWiNwho here wants a list of bugs i've found in the player? :)
09:26:04MeRWiNthe 7/29 build
09:27:22MeRWiNanyone? going once.. going twice... :-)
09:27:33Bagdermail the list!
09:27:58HesI think my charger code ~works.
09:30:21LinusHes: way to go!
09:30:46Linus(and you really needed that penguin in the picture, right...? :-)
09:30:48HesWill try it a couple times, only tried from ~80% charge to full charge yesterday
09:30:55HesYes, really, really. 8-)
09:30:55 Join MeRWiN- [0] (~merwin@
09:31:04MeRWiN-anyone reply to my want-ad?
09:31:11LinusHes: do you have a feeling of the battery life on your recorder?
09:31:21HesNo, I don't
09:31:27webmindMeRWiN-, add ?
09:31:39BagderMeRWiN: I suggest you post them to the mailing list
09:32:04MeRWiN-webmind: I've got a nice list of bugs... including one for the new SAVE_TO_DISK feature
09:32:11 Quit MeRWiN (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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09:32:28webmind,elinenbe ah ok
09:32:29HesLinus: you should have asked for the car model, I heard some of the new volvo's cause some distortion. 8-)
09:32:34webmindMeRWiN, ah ok
09:32:40LinusHes: :-)
09:33:03MeRWiNBagder: How often is the mailing list sent out? I subscribed but i haven't gotten anything yet (been about a week)
09:33:26LinusMeRWiN: something must be wrong, what is your email address?
09:34:21Bagder387 mails in July so far
09:35:11webmindoption reques:
09:35:12Bagderyou're not in there...
09:35:21LinusBagder: can you add him?
09:35:21 Join PiotR [0] (
09:35:22webmindoption to disable reading of id3 tags ?
09:35:30Bagderright away
09:35:34Linuswebmind: why?
09:35:55webmindLinus, cos sometimes the filename is more usefull then the tag
09:36:12BagderMeRWiN: I added you now
09:36:16webmindmaybe it's an idea to have a flexible disply for playmode
09:36:17LinusWhile Playing screen
09:36:24Linuswebmind: we do
09:36:35webmindLinus, so u can set your own combi of tags ?
09:36:42webmindincluding plain filename ? :)
09:36:52Linusaha, you mean *that* flexible?
09:37:01Linuswithout path?
09:37:03 Quit PiotR (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
09:37:19MeRWiNBagder: what mailing address do i send to to post things?
09:37:34webmindLinus, well.. that u can set your wps screen.. like album-songname
09:37:40webmindor artist-songname
09:37:44webmindor filename
09:37:48*Bagder points to Linus' reply
09:38:11Linuswebmind: post a suggestion to the list
09:38:16webmindLinus, hmm
09:38:21webmindi'm not on the list.. but ok
09:38:35Linusjoin the list then
09:38:44MeRWiNthere... all sent :)
09:38:52Bagdergot it
09:39:07MeRWiNLinus: your save_to_disk looks great, the scroll speed gets loaded but doesn't actually set it until you go into the scroll speed config
09:39:14webmindLinus, need a good mail addy first then
09:39:28MeRWiNLinus: other than that it seems to do great
09:39:34webmindjust have some web thing with a 2mb limit.. which tends to fill up
09:39:41LinusMeRWiN: that list was comprehensive! Way to go!
09:40:05MeRWiNLinus: I do user acceptance testing for a living.. my job is to be picky :)
09:40:16Linuswebmind: i see, but you can always read the list archive on the web
09:40:19Bagderhah, that's the spirit ;-)
09:40:38LinusMeRWiN: you are exactly the type of user we need
09:40:38webmindLinus, ok
09:41:27MeRWiNLinus: that and an 8 hour plane ride
09:42:03LinusYou know what the buffer size info is static?
09:42:28LinusIt is not a buffer usage meter, it just tells how large the buffer is
09:42:41Linus(maybe it should be in the debug menu?)
09:43:00MeRWiNLinus: is that why it never changes?
09:43:42 Nick Synthe` is now known as Synthe (
09:43:44Linusyes, but the battery should update
09:44:10Linusbut today it doesn't. i'll fix that in a sec
09:45:19MeRWiNSo do most people here use the WPS/ID3 or the WPS/File? I find the File option to be more useful, since I have a standard naming convention for my MP3's, and ID3's are often incorrect when downloaded
09:45:44webmindMeRWiN, uhuh
09:45:50webmindMeRWiN, my prob exactly
09:46:11HesI use ID3 on my recorder, less scrolling... I have standard naming but the full path takes a long time to scroll
09:46:20webmindMeRWiN, although my file naming script often uses id3 tags to define the filename..
09:46:27Hesand almost all of my mp3's are made from my CD's
09:46:34webmindfull path in filename qould be anoying i think ?
09:46:50MeRWiNwebmind: full path isn't in the filename display though
09:46:53MeRWiNjust the filename
09:47:27*webmind has some mp3's that have "track <id>" as id3 tag
09:47:37webmindwhich is damn anoying if u have a more correct filename :)
09:48:19HesWould be nice to document the various key combinations somewhere
09:48:29Heswhat's the key lock for example?
09:48:56webmindbtw, would it be possible with a hardware hack to make a keyboard for it ?
09:49:07MeRWiNhes: keylock is menu stop
09:49:26MeRWiNhes: volume up and down is menu + and menu -
09:49:29Linusor menu+down on the recorder
09:49:53webmindwhy difference ?
09:49:54Linusvol is up/down on the recorder
09:50:07Linusthere is no STOp key on the recorder
09:50:11webminder ?
09:50:17MeRWiNoh, i'm thinking player
09:50:28webmindme only has player so same here :)
09:51:25MeRWiNanyone know how to synch the cvs to a local dir for the first time in wincvs?
09:51:28MeRWiNi'm new to this
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09:58:48LinusI think i'll remove the buffer info, it's not really useful anyway
10:00:43Linusany protests?
10:01:00BagderI think you can leave it there for now
10:01:32 Quit elinenbe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:01:37Bagderit'll make us notice how it shrinks when the software grows ;-)
10:01:55*Bagder runs for coffee
10:02:54*webmind trips the coffee
10:09:01 Part Linus
10:13:25MeRWiNso is SAVE_TO_DISK enabled now?
10:13:30MeRWiNby default that is
10:14:30MeRWiNwhy not?
10:14:49Bagderbecause it isn't really how we want it yet
10:25:31 Join Linus [0] (~linus@
10:25:42Linushad to reboot...
10:26:10*Bagder has just found a bug
10:26:37BagderI have a playlist, and I just played a song that was said to be 0:00 long
10:27:01Bagderbut when it ended, things got wrong
10:27:07Linuswe need to analyze the VBR header
10:27:22Linusgot wrong?
10:27:35Bagderyes, the next song started without the display showing it
10:27:46Bagderand *blip* a third song started
10:28:12Bagderit was like there was a gap with some old song data in between
10:28:48Bagder<VBR> [short music from another song] <next proper song>
10:34:47Bagderare we using the player icons on the LCD yet?
10:38:38Bagderplease tell me what more changed from 1.1 to 1.2
10:39:10Bagder(consider 1.2 being *now*)
10:40:10adi|homehmm looks good from what i see...
10:40:30adi|homealthough.. most of the stuff under settings i don't think were ther in 1.1
10:40:33adi|homebut i dont remember
10:40:49Bagderme neither ;-)
10:41:41 Nick dwihno|gone is now known as dwihno (dwihno@
10:41:52HesRecorder-specific: Auto Volume control, Bass Boost, Loudness
10:42:01BagderLinus: I got the problem again, only this time with silence after the song that was "0:00"
10:42:29HesI though the pitch problems were on the Players, not the recorders
10:42:51*Bagder fixes
10:43:38dwihnoI say hello! :D
10:43:45Bagderhey ho dwihno
10:43:48dwihnoand good foredinner ;)
10:44:23dwihnowhat's key repeat?
10:44:54Bagderwhen you hold the key pressed and it will be treated as repeated keypresses
10:45:00dwihnostupid old me
10:45:24HesConfigurable directory sorting: defaults to non-case-sensitive sorting
10:46:48HesBagder: probably could mention things that have been worked on and which will probably appear in 1.3
10:47:19Hes(charging on the recorder, config saving to disk on the player to mention a few important ones)
10:47:55Hesand a current limitation: charging does not work on the recorder while rockbox is running. Workaround: boot the device with the charger attached and it'll go to the original firmware for charging.
10:47:58LinusBagder: calling the .mp3/.m3u file filter a "browsing mode" is maybe a little too much
10:48:30Bagderok "filter mode" then ;-)
10:48:34LinusBagder: the Player distortion problem is fixed
10:49:20LinusBagder: key locking with Menu+STOP (player) and F1+DOWN (recorder)
10:49:47LinusBagder: dir playback works as long as you don't leave the directory
10:50:06adi|homeoh.. oh.. i know what we forgot
10:50:08Bagderthat one's still mentioned in limitation
10:50:09LinusBagder: STOP in WPS also stops playback
10:50:25adi|home"adiamas: lazy developer that hasn't submited any code for this version"
10:50:41LinusMention that F1 is the MANU key on the recorder
10:51:17LinusLimitation: some high bitrate files may skip on the recorder
10:51:59LinusBagder: LCD icons are used on Player
10:52:35LinusBagder: Playlist playback doesn't stop on non-existing files, does it?
10:52:43BagderI don't know
10:52:55Bagderit said that in the 1.1 release I'm not aware of any fixes for that
10:53:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:53:39LinusBagder: deeper sleep for hard drive
10:56:23Bagderis there actually any point in "releasing" simulator binaries?
10:57:49MeRWiNBagder: people can check it out before they decide to put it on?
10:58:03MeRWiNBagder: in case they don't have their jukebox on them
10:58:13MeRWiNBagder: I keep wanting to write badger :)
10:59:03MeRWiNBagder: I tried the SIM first (although it was a horrible failure on my laptop... no numeric keypad)
10:59:43Bagderok then, I'm convinced, simulator binaries will come too
10:59:51MeRWiNBagder: couldn't hurt
11:00:05MeRWiNIt'll also give reviewers something to play with
11:00:37Bagderanyone with a win32 env around to build a win32 release version for me?
11:00:41MeRWiNIs it possible to create a single simulator that loads an archos.mod file dynamically?
11:01:34Bagderwell, everything is of course possible, that that would be quite a different beast from what we have today
11:01:54Bagder"but that"
11:02:01MeRWiNheh.. also, regarding the sim.. with the win32 executable, it's default directory is C:\, not the App folder + \archos
11:02:08MeRWiNat least it was in v1.1
11:02:38Bagderthe win32 version has always "lagged behind" a bit, since there has mainly only been Felix working on that
11:03:14MeRWiNTime for me to get an OS emulator running on my work laptop i guess... need to run linux
11:03:51Bagderyou should! ;-)
11:04:17MeRWiNSo do you want to release 1.2 without shuffle working right?
11:04:34BagderI want to release 1.2 as it works right now
11:04:48MeRWiNshuffle is working?
11:05:02Bagderworks for me right now at least
11:05:19Bagderbut the shuffle code is the same
11:05:40MeRWiNhmm... i'll download the current daily build and test it out right now, just to double check
11:06:13Bagdershuffle only works for playlists
11:06:25MeRWiNBagder: in that case, then it works fine :)
11:06:44LinusMeRWiN: check my reply to the mailing list
11:07:22MeRWiNLinus: what reply?
11:07:28Linusto your bug report
11:07:35MeRWiNnevermind, i forgot that i made a filter for it
11:07:37PsycoXuli'm getting distortion again with latest cvs... :/
11:08:50MeRWiNLinus: okey.
11:08:50BagderLinus: you want this recent commits in the 1.2, right?
11:08:55PsycoXulactualy it was fine when i was running that test build, and then yesterday i compiled CVS with the settings saving code enabled, and got some distortion on some things
11:09:07Linus"on some things"
11:09:11PsycoXulbut i wasn't sure if it had something to do with the songs or the sound settings code
11:09:21LinusBut it us the digital distortion thing?
11:09:26PsycoXulso i just tried it wouthout the settings saving code and i still get the same old distortion
11:09:30Linusloud clicks?
11:09:43PsycoXulyeah its what we talked about
11:09:44 Join yro|work [0] (
11:10:05PsycoXuli tried it now with the standard benchmark [AC/DC - Hell's Bells heh]
11:10:51LinusBagder: "For continuous playback of all files in the directory, you
11:10:52Linus must remain in id3 display mode"
11:11:41LinusI'm worried about the distortion though
11:11:56LinusPsycoXul: so it comes and goes, right?
11:12:13PsycoXulit depends on the music
11:12:42PsycoXulok i just cp'd the test build you sent me and it still works without distortion
11:12:54Linusyou must be joking
11:13:38 Quit MeRWiN ()
11:14:43PsycoXulyou think thats funny
11:14:53PsycoXuli just cp'd the SAME BUILD i was just getting distortion from back on
11:14:57PsycoXuland suddenly not getting it :p
11:16:02Bagdermajor wps bug here
11:16:52Bagderit shows the wrong song info
11:17:03Bagderduring this whole song
11:17:16LinusPsycoXul: can you build from source?
11:17:58PsycoXulthat "same build" was cvs compiled like 5 minutes ago
11:18:07PsycoXulits still up to date
11:18:11LinusTry to move the three lines beginning with "mas_writereg(0x3b...." down to after the PLL setting
11:18:12 Join notch [0] (
11:18:41LinusBagder: can you repeat it?
11:19:38BagderI seem to be able to
11:19:42Bagderhang on
11:21:41BagderI select a song from disk, but it isn't that one that gets played
11:22:30LinusI HATE THE MICRONAS DOCS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
11:22:46Bagderthe id3 tag is all wrong too
11:23:14LinusOn one page they say run $fcd, on the other page $fcb
11:23:23LinusBagder: is it just that song?
11:23:46Bagderno, there seem to be several songs in that one directory
11:23:56LinusBagder: this could be a ctype bug
11:24:17Linusbut i'm not sure
11:24:27Linusis it consistent?
11:24:27Bagderbecause the songs actually played are in a different directory!
11:24:51LinusBagder: fsck?
11:24:52BagderI select "And One/*plastic"
11:25:05Bagderbut Armageddon*/*blabla* is played
11:25:10Bagderyes I need to check it
11:25:19PsycoXulso even with the SAVE_TO_DISK defined build of latest CVS i still get no distortion now
11:25:30PsycoXulmust've been some freak thing with that last build or i dunno
11:25:45LinusOr maybe is is random
11:25:51PsycoXulor hmmm
11:26:00Linussince you can't get it back
11:27:50PsycoXuli just got it back
11:28:00PsycoXuli plugged it into the charger [while turned off]
11:28:04PsycoXultill it said charging
11:28:07PsycoXulthen unplugged it, booted up
11:28:13PsycoXuland wah-la distortion
11:29:08Linusgood, now we can repeat it
11:29:32PsycoXullemme try a few more things
11:29:38Linus(no wonder i can't repeat it, my box doesn't boot when connecting the charger
11:31:03PsycoXuljust rebuilt without SAVE_TO_DISK and cp'd that over... still getting distortion from that
11:31:58LinusPsycoXul: when is your unit manufactured?
11:32:45PsycoXuland once again your test build clears it up... heh
11:33:14PsycoXulLinus: dunno
11:33:18PsycoXulLinus: ROM firmware 5.03
11:33:33PsycoXulwhatever it is, it seems like it somehow remains between reboots
11:33:42Linusok. try this:
11:34:12Linususe address 36d, 36e and 36f in both cases when setting the PLL
11:35:22 Join Mighty [0] (
11:36:14PsycoXulwhere's this?
11:36:33PsycoXularound 1307 in mpeg.c?
11:36:41LinusPsycoXul: beginning with "if(mas_version_code..."
11:37:01LinusMighty: hi
11:37:18PsycoXulshould i switch it back into distorting before trying this?
11:37:50Mightydoes the isd200 chip has some kind of bypass feature so commands/calls can be made to a systemthread of some kind while the archos is in usb mobe?
11:38:26Mightyor is it locked up so it's impossible to access any running processes while usb is on
11:38:43LinusPsycoXul: yes
11:39:07LinusMighty: the software is running even when in usb mode
11:39:26Linusbut the ISD200 can only access the hard drive
11:39:39Linusno other USB communication
11:39:51Linusis is an ATA-USB chip only
11:40:17MightyLinus, it doesn't have any special feature where one can program it to be able to make simple calls or sent other status data over the USB ?
11:41:20Linusactuallt, it is made to work standalone, without a CPU
11:42:23PsycoXulLinus: no change
11:43:15MightyI had this idea about an X11 statusmonitor that displays info about the player/recorders HW state and things, ie. something nice that popup up when one connects it to the usb, but basically then, that is completely impossible to write because the hardware is unable to any such communication 'other' than just the ata-bridge?
11:46:26PsycoXulLinus: it may be something else triggering it actualy
11:46:36BagderMighty: correct
11:48:11LinusPsycoXul: ?
11:48:22PsycoXulhold on i'm testing it several times to make sure
11:50:32PsycoXulbooting up with the headphone jack in a different state than when it shut down
11:50:35PsycoXulthats it
11:50:52PsycoXuli.e. unplug headphone, shut down, plug headphone in, boot up - distortion
11:51:07PsycoXulplug headphone in, shut down, unplug, boot up - distortion
11:51:14 Join notching [0] (
11:51:59PsycoXulbut leave it in while both shutting down and booting up - distortion's gone... or leaving it in for both
11:52:09Linusimmensely weird
11:52:10PsycoXuler or leaving it out for both
11:52:23PsycoXulit seems to be consistently reproducable
11:52:46PsycoXuljust unplug before shutting off and then plug it back in before booting up, and see if you get it
11:53:10PsycoXulhas to be fairly loud and 'full' sounding music, generaly with like bass drums
11:53:23PsycoXulif you haven't heard it already
11:54:14PsycoXulmaybe its some kinda voltage difference or something?
11:54:36Mightyanyone know where to find the isd200 datasheet?
11:55:11Bagderthat isn't publicly available, afaicr
11:55:18LinusPsycoXul: i can't reproduce it
11:55:34 Quit notch (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
11:56:01 Nick notching is now known as notch (
11:56:37MightyBagder bjorn seens to have had it on the old rockbox page, lots of broken links from a year back in google
11:56:42PsycoXulwell at least i know the workaround heh
11:57:02BagderMighty: yes, but he was never allowed to publish it
11:57:45Bagderthey specificly asked him not to, if I recall things correctly
11:57:59Mightyodd manufacturer
11:58:25Mighty'oh no, someone might write software to our hardware'
11:59:54Mightybut if no one has seen those datasheets, then there might actually be support in the chip for userdefined calls of some kind in it just that it isn't in the isd200 driver?
12:00:33BagderMighty: Björn wrote the isd200 driver and he read the datasheet...
12:01:21LinusMighty: remember that the ISD200 is designed to work standalone, without a CPU
12:03:59LinusPsycoXul: can you hear the distortion in the line-out jack as well?
12:06:17Linusdid you try to move the mas_run(1) call?
12:07:18 Quit Mighty ("BitchX: born to raise hell")
12:09:10LinusPsycoXul: please do
12:10:06PsycoXulok move it and what else to where?
12:11:06Linusi told you
12:11:29LinusTry to move the three lines beginning with "mas_writereg(0x3b...." down to after the PLL setting
12:15:00PsycoXulstill got it
12:17:51Linuschange back the addresses 36d etc to 32d etc
12:18:41PsycoXuli think i already did :p
12:20:26Linusthis sucks
12:20:51Linusok, another try (just to check if the docs really tell the truth):
12:21:35Linusin the first (F10) case:
12:21:42PsycoXuljust tried them with 36 instead of 32 too and still the same
12:22:30Linususe 32d, 32e,32f and run $fcb
12:23:19PsycoXulfcb instead of 475?
12:25:02PsycoXulno difference...
12:28:53Linusand 36x and run $fcb?
12:34:02PsycoXulthat seems to work...
12:34:18PsycoXulthough i have no idea if i might've accidently switched it off in the process
12:34:48PsycoXulwhat i said worked like several times in a row when i said about the headphone jack thing and then it quit working heh
12:35:11Linuskeey trying, and see if you can reproduce it
12:37:31PsycoXulok well i just got it back
12:38:19PsycoXulbut its not as much as it was before.. it doesn't happen untill the bass drums come in now, while it'd do it at various points up till then before
12:38:38Linusgod, please give me strength
12:38:40PsycoXullemme see if i can account for that another way
12:39:10PsycoXulyeah ok i think that was a result of the bass/trebble settings, its still the same as it was before
12:39:25PsycoXulsorry heh
12:40:00Linusok, so now you have 32x, mas_run(fcb) and then mas_run(1), right?
12:41:00PsycoXuland i just got rid of it again
12:42:19 Join edx [0] (
12:43:04edxBagder, are you there?
12:43:12Linusi think you should have 32x, fcb and then mas_run(1)
12:45:01PsycoXuldidn't we try that just before 36x, fcb, mas_run(1)?
12:46:03Linusoh, sorry
12:53:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:00:37*Bagder is back
13:06:48Linusi'm out of ideas
13:08:48Linusi have browsed the source code of other MAS3507D projects
13:11:35Linusit seems that 32d, 32e, 32f, mas_run($fcb) and then mas_run(1) is the way to go on the chips with version 601
13:12:11Linusand 36d, 36e, 36f, run 475 and run(1) for the 501 chips
13:12:52Linusgotta eat
13:12:52 Nick Linus is now known as Linus|lunch (~linus@
13:14:10Linus|lunchactually, some projects omit the mas_run(1) on the 601 chips
13:57:43 Nick edx is now known as edx|busy (
14:11:30 Nick Linus|lunch is now known as Linus (~linus@
14:17:22*Bagder pretends to be a web guy right now... :-/
14:18:51 Join jedix [0] (
14:20:27dwihno<title>Bagder's www-page</title> ;)
14:20:59Bagderyeah, something like that :-)
14:23:11dwihnoIt's fun to do webpages
14:23:44Bagdernot this kind I do right now
14:24:28Bagderthe web stuff here is the embedded admin interface for network equipment
14:24:53dwihnocool :)
14:24:56dwihnothat's fun too! :)
14:25:05HesYes, the charger does seem to work.
14:25:17HesJust did a full recharge
14:25:23dwihnoexperimental charging code huh?
14:25:52HesSomeone with the serial port patch should probably try it for a few times too
14:26:07Linusserial port patch?
14:26:13*Bagder looks at Linus
14:26:17Linusyou mean to get DEBUGF() messages?
14:28:01Hesmodification, yes
14:29:26Hesto see if it's the short-term negative delta or long-term low positive delta detection which works
14:29:36Hesand how fast it detects the drop
14:30:18LinusHes: what external power device do you use?
14:33:39HesThe bog standard charger
14:34:15Linusok. how long did it take?
14:34:47HesDidn't time it
14:34:51 Nick dwihno is now known as dwihno|away (dwihno@
14:34:56Hescould count the 1-minute pixels on the screen of course
14:35:21Linusi mean, a recharge should take quite a long time
14:35:22Hesand debugging could show the elapsed time counter
14:35:26HesIt did
14:35:58HesPeak voltage went to 5.4V with charger connected
14:36:03Bagderanyone tried to produce an "expected battery-time left" by reading the battery with large intervals and checking the differences?
14:36:29Linusi have reached more than 5.6V
14:36:32HesNot yet... i have the statistics gathered now which can be used for that
14:38:15HesThink i'll mail the patch now
14:39:46HesThere is some serious cleaning up to be done in it probably
14:39:52Hesbut it should generally do the job.
14:40:49HesSeems the near-zero average time should be extended.
14:42:30 Join elinenbe [0] (
14:46:53notchLinus: we gould grab a typical NiMH dischagre curve, and generate a lookup or equation...
14:47:15Linusyeah, that is a beginning
14:47:34notchI can look into that if i'm not stepping on anyones toes!
14:47:37Linushowever, that discharge curve only applies to constant current draw, i guess
14:48:07notchI might so some investigating...
14:48:09Linusnotch: we still need a non-linear battery level meter
14:48:19Linusso go investigate
14:49:12Linusi'm so confused by the distortion problems
14:49:31Linusand Micronas version number scheme
14:49:52LinusThey say that they will increase the version number for each new release
14:49:56HesShould i mail the charger patch to the list or do you want to take a look at it first?
14:50:05LinusVersion D8 has no version number
14:50:19LinusVersion F10 has number 0601
14:50:28Linusabd version G10 seems to have 0501
14:50:45LinusAnd G12 doesn't seem to have changed
14:50:59BagderHes: mail the list right away, imho
14:51:06Linusand all data sheets say different things
14:53:30***No seen item changed, no save performed.
15:00:56notchOkay, we cant use battery voltage to determine capacity. We need an energy counter whose size is determined dynamically,
15:01:29notchwe can use -deltaV to determine full, and Vmin to determine empty.
15:02:09Linusbut -deltaV can only be applied if the charge rate is high enough
15:02:20notchWe can take an average power consumption with HDD on and off, and use this to adjust the energy counter.
15:03:11notchhas anyone tested to see if we get a deltaV or what the charge I is?
15:03:48HesMy patch shows an average deltaV for a shorter and a longer period
15:04:57Linusfrom what i have read, -deltaV detection is not reliable on batteries that have been used a while, not with a slow charge rate, such as C/10
15:05:29Linusthe delta will be too small and too slow
15:05:55Linusi don't know the charge rate of the recorder charger
15:06:15Linusbut i assume that the Player rate is about C/10
15:06:31Linussince it has no software controlled charging
15:07:44notchtakes about 6 hours on my recorder... so it's probably in the order of 350mA
15:08:57LinusThat's quite high, about C/5 then
15:11:02notchbut since it's charging via a regulator, the current proabably drops off when the battery is near full!
15:11:13notchwhere the deltaV should be!
15:12:00HesI could see the deltaV drop clearly
15:12:33Linusthat's good. i can imagine that C/5 would be enough to rely on -deltaV
15:12:39notchshit that's good!
15:12:48Hesin the end of that graph... the automatic charge end code was not enabled for that graph
15:13:02Linusthe articles i have read only suggested that C/10 would be too low for -deltaV
15:13:39notchwhat happens if the unit is being used whilst charging?
15:14:02Linusi guess that the charging will be slower
15:14:07notchwe could get a HDD -deltaV !
15:14:09HesWe take an average over enough samples to get over the voltage drops caused by the spinning disk
15:14:24Hesthat's one possibility if we add code to see if the disk is spinning
15:14:40Linuswe shouldn't measure when the disk is spinning
15:15:17Hesunless the disk spins all the time for some reason
15:15:57Linusi suddenly realized that ata_disk_is_active is lame
15:16:47Linusand now i suddenly realize that it isn't :-)
15:16:49notchWould the regulator keep the voltage across the batterys constant when the HDD was on? Or would it droop?
15:17:29Linusthe voltage across the batteries is what we measure
15:18:00HesThe battery voltage drops quite a lot when the HDD spins
15:18:04Hesespecially when it starts up
15:18:54notchwhen charging?
15:19:25HesPlease try out my patch and observe
15:19:39notchokay will do...
15:28:34matp|workHes: I am dumb. I don't understand what the AV decay time is...
15:34:03matp|workAlso, I have noticed much more skipping with yesterday's build than Friday's. Is this a known issue?
15:37:17Linusnot really
15:42:15Bagderdoes the current code attempt to shut down when the batteries run out?
15:42:28Bagderor does it just die like before?
15:44:19Linusit just dies, and will always do
15:44:34notchI'm $$%£^ trying to install CVS and have downloaded the automake version... any ideas what I type to install?
15:45:02Linus(and 'make' in between)
15:45:12Bagder ./configure && make && make install probably
15:45:18Linusyes :-)
15:45:32notchcheers :-)
15:45:52Linusmatp|work: high bitrate?
15:48:33LinusI haven't noticed any difference
15:49:01matp|workLinus: Variable bit rate. between 64 and 256
15:49:41matp|workMy normal walk to the train station it stopped 3 times
15:50:03matp|workI was getting 'end of song list. press ON'
15:50:49Linusi assume that the batteries were full?
15:51:08matp|workHow do I boot to the archos firmware (yuck). I have the power connected, and it goes straight to the charging screen.
15:51:41LinusYou don't
15:51:56Linusyou have to replace or delete ajbrec.ajz
15:52:15matp|workLinus: yes, freshly charged that night. On the train, there was no skipping for an hour. Battery info claims it's 100% still (this is dubious).
15:52:50matp|workLinus: damn, forgot my usb cable. I want my batteries to be fresh for the journey home.
15:53:23Linusi don't get it. Why do you want to run the archos firmware?
15:54:18Linusif you want to charge, just start the unit with the power connected
15:54:48matp|workI thought the archos manual claims it recharges and plays at the same time.
15:55:00Linusaha, now i get it
15:55:36matp|workyeah, I want to listen for the rest of the afternoon, and still have enough charge to get home ;)
15:56:00matp|workI really could do with 10 hours worth of battery life :(
15:56:30Linusi just measured, i get 6hrs play time from my recorder with rockbox and (not really full, but almost) 1800mAh batteries
15:58:30matp|workThat's about what I get, when I last measured.
15:58:50matp|workAnyway, this skipping has been introduced since Friday.
15:59:09matp|workMaybe it's overheating. It's 90 degrees in London at the moment :)
16:00:03Linusinteresting, i haven't made any changes that i think could cause skipping...
16:00:22Linusdo you play directories or playlists
16:00:42*webmind never managed to create a playlist on the player :)
16:00:51matp|workplaylists all the way
16:01:02*webmind uses que
16:01:21webmindalthough i'd really like to be able to que more then one song :)
16:02:34matp|workInteresting that available memory is 1.5 MB. I assume that's 'normal'
16:03:42LinusThat info just tells how large the MP3 buffer is, not how much of it that is in use
16:16:41Bagderthe LCD shut off because of low power I guess
16:16:48Bagderbut the music still plays
16:16:55BagderStupid me
16:17:03*Bagder hides and feels ashamed
16:17:15Bagdernever mind me, move on ;-)
16:17:44matp|workIt really tells us how much memory we're using for the application, non?
16:17:53Linusmatp|work: yes
16:18:15Bagderor rather how much we're *not* using for the application ;-)
16:18:30Linusmatp|work: but it has never skipped when the unit is still?
16:20:06matp|workno. and until friday, it never skipped when the unit was moving.
16:20:45matp|workI have been playing with the auto-volume settings. could this be it?
16:21:04Linusmaybe, but i don't think so
16:21:27matp|workwhy is this setting in seconds?
16:21:33Linusplease try to observe as many details as you can, like if it is more likely with certain songs...
16:25:03LinusThe auto-volume setting is how many seconds it takes to raise the volume to normal level again after a volume drop
16:26:37Linusok, time to go home
16:26:54Linusby all
16:27:04 Part Linus
16:27:05Bagderbye Linus
16:47:21 Quit yro|work ("ircII EPIC4-1.1.5 -- Are we there yet?")
16:47:44Bagdergoing home as well
16:47:46 Part Bagder
16:53:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:56:00*edx|busy notices his batteries are 133% charged :$
17:45:03 Quit notch ()
17:58:24 Join WetFlax [0] (
18:23:01 Join Tumm [0] (
18:45:39 Nick stile is now known as adi|work (~adiamas@
18:53:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:20:36 Join MeRWiN [0] (~merwin@
20:53:38***No seen item changed, no save performed.
21:11:24 Quit elinenbe ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby")
21:11:24 Quit MeRWiN (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:03:41 Join mistaRx [0] (
22:19:49 Join MeRWiN [0] (
22:20:37 Quit mistaRx ()
22:27:02 Join matp [0] (
22:53:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:02:54 Join MeRWiN- [0] (
23:03:31 Quit MeRWiN- (Client Quit)
23:04:22 Quit MeRWiN (Remote closed the connection)
23:43:38 Quit datazone ("Client Exiting")
23:47:17 Quit jedix (Remote closed the connection)

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