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#rockbox log for 2002-10-03

00:04:04MiranZagor: I tend to shock my unit whenever I take it for a walk, so I'm not fussed :)
00:09:35MiranZagor: Which version of rockbox has the best HD error recovery? I'll give it a walk and see if it does recover
00:09:54ZagorMiran: try the latest daily build
00:10:12PsycoXulmine only has problems when i drop it
00:10:25PsycoXuland even then it's not till a minute or 2 later
00:10:30Zagormake sure you enable keylock so you don't get accidental button events...
00:10:34 Join breaker [0] (
00:10:57ZagorPsycoXul: you only notice read errors after a while, since they can occur late in the buffer
00:10:58Miranrockbox has a keylock?
00:11:08Miranwhich command is that?
00:11:10Zagoryes. F1+DOWN or MENU+DOWN
00:11:15Miranthank you :D
00:12:36MiranZagor: You want me to see if it recovers from HD errors or just see if it skips
00:14:05breakerhi! so now my IRC works (I'm the new rockbox develover that linus gave cvs write access yesterday. Hi everyone!)
00:15:52ZagorMiran: that should be the same thing :-)
00:15:54breakerIn the last hour I changed lcd-recorder.c so that is scrolls in both directions if the string is short. Do you find it useful?
00:16:10Zagorbreaker: you're uwe?
00:16:33Zagorbreaker: submit it as a patch. i'm trying to stabilise for 1.4
00:16:50MiranZagor: Ahh, but I can make the rockbox skip, but it might recover and continue to play, or it might just die completely :)
00:16:58breakerOk, should I send it to the patch tracker, mailinglist or private mail?
00:17:08Zagorbreaker: patch tracker
00:17:32ZagorMiran: we retry for 5 seconds on read errors, so if everything works you should have to work hard to make it skip
00:18:18MiranZagor: ok, I'll see if it works :), be back in a few minutes
00:18:25 Quit Miran ("Its not that you do not see, it is mearly that your eyes do not perceive")
00:20:04breakerOne thing is not nice by now: When scrolling the complete title (like %d1/%fm in default.wps), there are spaces at the end and so it scrolls too much.
00:20:43 Join werty1st [0] (
00:20:59Zagorthe spaces are added as separator, so it's visible when the scroll wraps
00:21:04Zagorwerty1st: hi
00:21:05breakerWouldn't it be better to add the space (when scrolling in the round) in the scroll thread instead of adding space characters to the string?
00:21:29Zagorbreaker: what's the difference? the string is in the scroll thread.
00:22:24werty1stcan u tell me how to deactivate the repeat mode
00:22:56breakerIn dir browser strings there seem not to be spaces at the end, in my %d1/%fm wps line there are. (At least they are visible only there.)
00:23:00werty1stthe jukebox will never turn off if it doesnt stop playing at the end of a folder
00:23:14Zagorbreaker: dir browser has them too
00:23:48Zagorwerty1st: repeat mode is always on, we'll add a setting for that in next version
00:24:27 Join freshmaker [0] (
00:24:43breakerhmm, I see now. I had the scrollbar on (left in the dir browser) and it exactly fitted (the string ended at the right side of the display). :-)
00:24:51Zagorbreaker: hehe
00:24:59werty1stlike normal play/repeat 1/repeat all
00:25:18Zagorwerty1st: yes. in 1.4, if all goes to plan
00:25:38PsycoXuli think repeat 1 should just be repeat turned on w/ a 1-track playlist, personally... heh
00:26:04breakerSo then I have to consider where the text starts and not only the width..
00:26:06freshmakerHello everyone!
00:26:31werty1sti think the preselect for the next song which is included in the original archos firmware is also very usefull
00:27:05PsycoXulqueueing is redundant with a decent playlist system
00:28:11breakerZagor: Hm, and how should I detect how many pixels wide the space characters at the end are? (Needed for detecting if I'm at the end of a line.)
00:28:27breakerZagor: I mean, it depends on the font..
00:28:52freshmakerbreaker: What are you trying to do?
00:31:06Zagorbreaker: space is just another character. lcd_getstringsize
00:31:33breakerfreshmaker: Scrolling the text line in both directions if the string is short.
00:31:47Zagori'm not sure I understand the point, though :-)
00:32:01breakerZagor: ONE character (everywhere)?
00:32:54freshmakerbreaker: i.e. like the scrollnig on the original archos firmware, without a wrap around?
00:34:18breakerfreshmaker: yes. but only if the string is short (I'm testing with < 1.5 * LCD_WIDTH)
00:35:25freshmakerbreaker: hmm, that shouldn't be hard. do you have code already? i have an idea for the recorder (about 5 additinal lines)
00:36:34Zagorbut is it really useful? i was always annoyed by the archos scroll. after all, we read from left to right so what's the gain in scrolling right-to-left?
00:38:10breakerZagor: I mean is there one space character at the end of every line that is scrolled? I need it to calculate if I have to change the direction when I'm at the end of a line.
00:38:26freshmakerhmm, personally i don't like it, too. but let's go for the polls... :-)
00:38:53breakerfreshmaker: Yes, I've coded something here..
00:39:01Zagorbreaker: ah, no there are 3 spaces
00:40:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:40:23breakerIf I have a string that doesn't fit on the screen only by e.g. 2 characters I find it better if it only scrolls these two characters to left and right. If I have a long string I prefer a complete scrolling. Don't you think that it is useful?
00:40:40 Join Miran [0] (
00:41:03MiranZagor: It skips :) and it freezes the wps and the HD doesn't spin down afterwards
00:41:41werty1sti have a loud background noise on my jukebox does anybody have a similarly effect">
00:41:49ZagorMiran: hmm, bad
00:42:13MiranWerty1st: Archos firmware does have a nasty background noise
00:42:19breakerwerty1st: In the headphones / line out?
00:42:32werty1stif i use the rockbox firmware i noise is much more quietly">
00:42:46werty1st@ breaker
00:42:46Zagorwerty1st: how did you record that file?
00:42:47 Nick _seb_ is now known as seb-away (user@
00:42:51Miranharddisk noise
00:42:59Miranis this with the mic?
00:43:13werty1stthe noise is there even if i didnt play a file
00:43:19MiranZagor: yes bad :(
00:43:34Miranis the harddisk spun up?
00:43:38Zagorwerty1st: how did you record that file?
00:43:46Miranor is it quiet
00:44:18werty1st@ Zagor it is there all the time on every file and even if i didnt play a file
00:44:35freshmakerbreaker: for the recorder? scroll until (offset > LCD_WIDTH - (xmargin + s->startx * w / s->len)) or (offset > LCD_WIDTH - xmargin) as startx is always zero
00:44:36werty1st@ Zagor all files are downloaded
00:44:43Zagorwerty1st: yes. now how did you record this file?
00:44:56Zagorthis noise file was not downloaded, right?
00:45:20werty1st@ Miran if the disk spins down the noise starts
00:45:28Zagordid you record it on the recorder? using the mic?
00:45:50MiranWerty1st: Humm, should be THAT loud :D, Archos firmware was noisy
00:46:06werty1st@ Zagor if i stop playing a file the noise is still there
00:46:47werty1st@ Zagor i havnt recorded the file with the jukebox
00:47:12freshmakerbreaker: err, i mean: (offset > s->width - (LCD_WIDTH - xmargin))
00:48:22breakerwerty1st: Is it dependant on the place where the AJB is? I mean is it standing between your open PC case or mobile phone? Is the ac adaptor plugged in?
00:48:54werty1st@ breaker no
00:49:04breakerfreshmaker: Thanks. I'll try.
00:49:05Zagorwerty1st: PLEASE help me here. HOW did you record the file?
00:49:46werty1st@ Zagor i misunderstood u
00:50:19werty1st@ Zagor i recorded it with ear and PC-mic
00:50:29werty1st@ Zagor i recorded it with JB-ear and PC-mic
00:50:48Zagorwerty1st: cable from ear to your soundcard?
00:50:57Zagorok, thanks
00:51:25Zagori would say your unit is broken. I recommend you contact Archos for a warranty replacement.
00:52:14werty1stok thx @ Zagor
00:55:56freshmakerZagor: Will we get write(), rename() and remove() after 1.4 release?
00:56:04*freshmaker 's makin bambi eyes
00:56:27Zagorfreshmaker: yes. after 1.4, not in 1.4.
00:56:38 Quit werty1st ()
00:56:54freshmakercool, i have a good pile of ideas...
00:57:02Zagornice :-)
00:57:54freshmakerrudimentary file management, scoring system, statistics, ...
00:58:26breakerfreshmaker: Scoring = Count how many times I listened to a song/album?
00:59:27freshmakerno, listen to a song, thinking "eww, what a crap; but maybe it's my mood." and scoring the mp3 down.
00:59:54freshmakerlater i can decide to remove mp3s with the lowest score.
01:00:40freshmakeror we can implement a random play function that's biased on the scores
01:00:54breakerfreshmaker: aha. I thought of counting how many times I played a song so that I can write a simple perl script that deletes the things I never listen to..
01:01:21freshmakeryeah, that's would be the statistics i mentioned
01:01:54 Join werty1st [0] (
01:02:19freshmakerand i have code for a virtual DJ based on a hidden markov model
01:10:02breakerfreshmaker: What is a hidden markov model?
01:11:06freshmakera mathematical thing for trying to reproduce something without really understanding it. you only have input and output.
01:11:07breakerfreshmaker: You mean it is based on a markov algorithm?
01:11:56 Join langhaarrocker [0] (
01:12:11freshmakeri once tried to teach a hmm to predict the next song, that would be played by a *real* dj.
01:13:22freshmakerit didn't work really well. but i got the idea to use a modified hidden markov automaton to get equivalent results
01:15:15freshmakeryou have to tag each mp3 with it's bpm, style of music, etc. and then the automaton will "randomly" select songs, but trie's not to jump around wildly wrt bpm, music style, etc.
01:18:16breakerZagor: The scrolling works correctly now. I now only add the three space characters if I decide to scroll in the round. I'll post the patch to the patch tracker now.
01:18:21breakerWhen will the 1.4 come?
01:18:34ZagorReal Soon Now :-)
01:18:59freshmakerbreaker: is it optional?
01:19:03Zagorseriously, we'll just add repeat toggle, some persistance thingies and then shove it out the door
01:20:15Zagori'm off to bed. see you later.
01:20:20 Quit Zagor ("Client Exiting")
01:20:45langhaarrocker:( no user editable keys in 1.4
01:21:08freshmaker:-( no 'vi' in 1.4
01:21:23breakerfreshmaker: No, not now. But I don't think that it disturbs too much (because its only scrolling in both directions if it is a really short string). I don't think that is worth another option. Let's see how the others feel about it.
01:25:43 Quit hardeep (Remote closed the connection)
01:27:57 Quit edx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:31:18breakerfreshmaker: My patch is on sourceforge now. Try it!
01:31:31freshmakeryeah, i will
01:31:49breakerAnd now it's time to go to bed. Bye!
01:32:09 Quit breaker ()
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01:55:24 Quit Miran ("Its not that you do not see, it is mearly that your eyes do not perceive")
01:55:29 Join elinenbe [0] (
01:55:41elinenbelanghaarrocker: you here?
01:56:01langhaarrockerjust a bit.
01:56:10elinenbedid you post that patch to the list?
01:56:23elinenbewith the mp3 split editor?
01:56:30langhaarrockerabhout thrice
01:56:46elinenbecould you email me the compiled firmware −− my setup died.
01:56:53langhaarrockerprogramming is easy. mailing is not.
01:57:19elinenbecould you try and send it to elinenbe at umich dot edu
01:57:43langhaarrockerI can do so. But it's not of any use, yet.
01:58:00elinenbeI know.. I just want to see the concept
01:58:38 Quit freshmaker ("ChatZilla 0.8.9 [Mozilla rv:1.1/20020914]")
02:02:04langhaarrockerit contains some broken things. Like the osci being too fast and without control, the peak meter has debug bars ...
02:04:26 Join motiv01 [0] (
02:06:28elinenbelanghaarrocker: thanks!
02:06:45langhaarrockerhave you played star yet?
02:07:10elinenbeI really like it alot
02:07:15elinenbequite a nice game
02:08:11elinenbeof course there are some bugs with it acccording to Zagor or Bagder
02:10:03langhaarrockerIt's good to have people like them. That raises the quality of the software.
02:13:04elinenbeI think the editor currently has a whole bunch of bugs :)
02:13:19langhaarrockerThat's what I said.
02:13:27elinenbeI am just suprised they allowed my code :)
02:13:48langhaarrockerwhat is it?
02:15:39elinenbeI would like loading of files off the disk
02:15:46elinenbebut that will come in time
02:16:16langhaarrockerZagor made a readline in file.c That makes a lot of things easier.
02:17:01elinenbei'll look at it
02:20:20elinenbelanghaarrocker: what is shooter?
02:20:31langhaarrockera bug
02:23:30langhaarrockerIt might become a game though. But not now. Not before the key binding thing has been cleared out.
02:23:59 Quit Hadaka (
02:24:39NJoinHadaka [0] (
02:25:03elinenbewell, that seems to be quite a project :)
02:26:37langhaarrockerTo big for me to do it alone.
02:29:37langhaarrockerI don't know perl...
02:37:53langhaarrockergood night
02:38:15 Quit langhaarrocker ("Trillian (")
02:39:51 Quit Hadaka (
02:40:09NJoinHadaka [0] (
02:40:24***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:18:58 Part motiv01
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04:40:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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06:26:04 Quit PiotR ("rabo for all!")
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06:40:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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08:40:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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08:44:53bobTHCgood morning !
09:02:59bobTHCwhat the exact purpose of "Clip hold time" ?
09:03:24bobTHCin the peakmeter menu
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10:04:08 Join Zagor [0] (
10:06:15 Join langhaarrocker [0] (
10:10:58adi|homeZagor you around?
10:11:23langhaarrockerIf so he can't have slept very long.
10:11:47Zagorwhat's with the nagging about my sleeping patterns? :)
10:11:57adi|homehehe we want you healthy?
10:12:23langhaarrockerslightly mad would be ok for me, too.
10:12:26adi|homeZagor am i doing something wrong or do i still not have access to change/admin bug/feature entries on sourceforge?
10:12:38Zagoradi|home: uh, i'll check
10:12:40adi|homebagder said he was going to fix it but i still can't do admin
10:16:00hardeephmmm, i think i got basic repeat functionality working... anyone bored and want to test?
10:16:01Zagoradi|home: now you should have access
10:16:17langhaarrockerhardeep: I can test.
10:16:19Zagorhardeep: i'm not bored, but I want to test :-)
10:17:05hardeepone sec, let me put it up somewhere
10:18:07 Join LinusN [0] (
10:18:48adi|homerepeat functionality?
10:19:01adi|homeLinusN: i was talking to you about the 'master file' idea right?
10:20:05hardeepOkay, patch is at and recorder firmware are
10:20:17hardeepIt's still a little rough but it works. :)
10:22:21LinusNadi|home: "master file"?
10:23:31LinusNhehe, people really have trouble attaching the patches :-)
10:23:41langhaarrockeryes. that's me!
10:23:58adi|homei know i talked to someone.. let me scroll back
10:25:47*LinusN gets some coffee
10:26:38langhaarrockerBTW: I think it would be a good idea to put the standard procedure to apply a patch from the mailing list / patch tracker into the faq.
10:28:06 Join pyvasene [0] (
10:28:22langhaarrockerwhat if **end in strtok_r(char *ptr, const char *sep, char **end) good for?
10:28:59adi|homeahh.. it was Bagder I talked to.. it can wait then
10:29:36adi|homeits intended to be a thread safe version of strtok
10:29:46adi|homerather a recursive safe
10:30:12langhaarrockerrepeat 1 works fine
10:30:12adi|homeif i remember correctly
10:30:46langhaarrockerbut what do I pass semantically to that **end parameter?
10:31:41LinusNit is a pointer to a pointer variable where strtok() can store the last pointer position between calls
10:32:23LinusNjust declare a char pointer variable and pass the address to it
10:32:32langhaarrockersomething like an index where to start searching for the next token within ptr?
10:32:43LinusNand make sure that that variable isn't destroyed between the calls to strtok()'
10:33:16langhaarrockerMaybe I got the idea now. Thanks.
10:33:49adi|homelanghaarrocker: the way strtok works is to store a pointer in memory for your next call
10:34:02adi|homebut if you are using multi threads etc.. thats a bad thing
10:34:12adi|homebecause you may step on that memory with another call to strtok
10:34:25adi|homestrtok_r lets you decide where that memory ptr should be
10:34:31adi|homethat make sense?
10:34:42langhaarrockerYes. Absolutely
10:34:54adi|homehehe i love this song..
10:35:08adi|homeAvirl Levigne.. she sings 'i wanna see you go down on me... '
10:35:22adi|homelol... 18 hot chick talking about oral.. what a wonderful world
10:36:20LinusNhow about making the F2/F3 screen disappear after selecting a boolean option?
10:36:58Zagornah, i don't think i want that. then you have to press it again to change another.
10:37:17adi|homeLinusN Zagor im looking at the tracker system in sourceforge
10:37:24langhaarrockerShow supported files is a 3state toggle.
10:37:31adi|homewould it make sense to have a bug tracker for releases and one for developement branch?>
10:37:33Zagorlanghaarrocker: good point
10:37:49LinusNlanghaarrocker: that's why i wrote "boolean"
10:37:49Werty1st|pennendoes anybody know how prevent windows from creating a recycled folder on the jukebox after connecting it
10:37:50Zagoradi|home: no, we have too many bugs in dev code
10:37:55 Nick Werty1st|pennen is now known as werty1st (
10:37:55adi|homethe quick menus need to be fixed to only display in internal fonts btw.
10:38:02Zagoradi|home: already done
10:38:36LinusNi'd like boolean settings to close the screen
10:38:46adi|homeZagor not to sound stupid.. but so?
10:38:48ZagorLinusN: why?
10:38:49*adi|home smirks
10:39:08Zagoradi|home: so we'd spend all day closing and responding to bug reports instead of writing code
10:39:11adi|homeLinusN: I don't agree.. main reason.. what if i want to change 2 settings?
10:39:19adi|homeif one is bool.. i have to menu again to change the other
10:39:48adi|homewell... now we're asking them to ask on irc or mail to the list, is that any better?
10:39:48ZagorIMHO it gets very confusing if some settings close the screen and some not
10:39:58LinusNZagor: possibly
10:40:28Zagoradi|home: yes, i think it is. most questions concern bugs already fixed. the dev code moves too fast for a bug tracker
10:40:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:40:49LinusNi was only a little annoyed by having to close it manually using the one-hand shortcut
10:40:49adi|homefair enouhg
10:41:17langhaarrockerlet's go key schemes and all this f2/f3 screen disappear problem can be delegated to the users :)
10:41:21LinusNZagor: but we might want to allow for quick bug-report-mails without subscribing
10:41:56LinusNlanghaarrocker: the quick screens must still have options for this in the key settings
10:42:11LinusNthe key config will be a huge feature-bloat
10:42:30ZagorLinusN: that's questionable too, actually. people generally don't give enough information in their first mail so we want to keep a dialogue.
10:42:46adi|homei agree with LinusN on bloat
10:43:01LinusNZagor: agreed, but i'd prefer that to not getting the report at all
10:43:19Zagorlanghaarrocker: any plans how to implement feedback with your key scheme? sounds like you're approaching a full scripting language soon...
10:43:23adi|hometo me.. having a bunch of users complaing because their buttons aren't doing what they expect because they screwed up their own config, is to me a pain as well.
10:43:36LinusNadi|home: i fear that too
10:44:00adi|homedont get me wrong.. im all for a wide user feature set..
10:44:07adi|homebut we have to draw the line somewhere
10:44:08langhaarrockerZagor: What do you mean with 'feedback'?
10:44:16LinusNadi|home: i understand perfectly
10:44:34adi|homenow were talking about also passing _every_ button stroke through a filter to figure out wtf to do...
10:44:38adi|homedunno if i like that at all.
10:44:44adi|homeand at run time non-the-less
10:44:56Zagorlanghaarrocker: lcd display. things like the quickscreen etc.
10:45:33langhaarrockerOk, I'll include how to open a quick screen in my demo. It can be done with the existing model already.
10:46:22LinusNlanghaarrocker: that's my point
10:46:25Zagorlanghaarrocker: no, my point is with key-config quickscreens don't exist in the code (since they are hard-coded button handlers). so there must be a way to implement things like that dynamically...
10:46:42adi|homeanyone have a problem with volume changing to a single value increment?
10:47:04LinusNwe'll continuously have to add things to the key config as users want sillier and sillier config options
10:47:14LinusNadi|home: not me
10:47:19Zagoradi|home: i'm thinking maybe an option... i like moving two clicks. :)
10:47:21langhaarrockerZagor: the key handling of the quick screens should be rewritten. Is that what you mean?
10:47:27LinusNbut we have 2% increments because people complained
10:47:36adi|homeZagor: i thought about that.. but my only prob with that is.. well..
10:47:46Zagorlanghaarrocker: no, i mean the user can invent whatever quickscreen system he wants. so the screen display cannot be hard-coded at all.
10:47:46adi|homewe don't have that as an option on any other menu.
10:47:51adi|homebut im not against it..
10:48:01LinusNMaybe 2% in WPS, and 1% in settings?
10:48:06Zagoradi|home: i agree. i'll have to test with 1 step and see if that's really a bother
10:48:23adi|homeLinusN: im against that even more ;)
10:48:31adi|homeit should be standard ;)
10:48:39Zagori agre
10:48:40adi|homenot action a in one local and action b in another
10:48:42LinusNi think 1% is good
10:48:50langhaarrockerZagor: 2 clicks is possible by making a 'macro' that s binding increase by one to the same key twice.
10:48:57adi|homewell. we could do 1 and if ppl complain, we add an increment option
10:48:59adi|homehows that sound?
10:49:15Zagorsounds good
10:49:18LinusNadi|home: i'm all for that
10:49:20adi|homeill fix
10:49:41LinusNadi|home: are you aware how to implement this?
10:49:45langhaarrockerZagor: Next step would be to make all the menus and quick screens user configurable as well.
10:49:50adi|home1 val increments?
10:50:11Zagorlanghaarrocker: that would require a scripting language
10:50:12adi|homewell.. i figure ill see where we're doing 2 % and work from there...
10:50:54LinusNlook in mpeg_sound_set()
10:51:12LinusNand don't forget to change the min,max and default
10:51:14langhaarrockerZagor: I don't see why. The menu items execute commands just like the keys do. We can reuse that mechanism and just have to bind menu items to commands.
10:52:46Zagorlanghaarrocker: then we'd have commands like run_sound_menu, run_games_menu etc. which means you cannot configure the menus
10:53:50langhaarrockerZagor: no, we'd have run_menu(i)
10:53:52Zagoralso I don't quite see how for example the WPS/browser toggling would work
10:54:25langhaarrockerZagor: simply by changing the key scheme when executing the command.
10:54:45LinusNlanghaarrocker: this is getting heavy
10:54:49Zagorlanghaarrocker: yes, but if we just call new commands every time we'll blow the stack
10:54:56langhaarrockerZagor: I've done toggling in the demo on the play button.
10:55:42langhaarrockerZagor: no, it's more like the wps uses it's key scheme and the browsers uses it's own.
10:56:02Zagorlanghaarrocker: right, but what does ON do in the WPS keyscheme?
10:57:28langhaarrockerZagor: it has many functionalities. But they all are triggered by different events from different states. Each state uses it's own key scheme.
10:57:41adi|homeknow something that needs to be fixed with ask resume?
10:57:54adi|homeif you weren't playing a song last time, or you said no
10:57:59adi|homeit shouldnt ask again :)
10:58:00Zagorlanghaarrocker: my point is: each event calls a function, right?
10:58:08adi|homethis is my 3rd reboot w/ it asking :)
10:58:19langhaarrockerZagor: yes, but the functions return somewhen.
10:58:39Zagorlanghaarrocker: yes, but wps/browser toggling cannot call functions, since that will blow the stack
10:58:40langhaarrockerSo the stack won't grow
10:59:08ZagorON in wps calls browser(), on in browser calls wps(), on in wps calls browser() etc etc
10:59:27langhaarrockerHow that done now?
10:59:35LinusNthe WPS returns
10:59:44LinusNback to the dir browser that called it
11:00:14LinusNexatcly tha same problem that makes F1 return to WPS difficult
11:01:25langhaarrockerShow me the code where the problem is handled now and I'll tell you how to do it with key schemes.
11:02:03Zagorlanghaarrocker: wps.c:704
11:02:50*langhaarrocker is investigating
11:03:34adi|homeLinusN: why in volume is default = to 70/2
11:03:40adi|homeor basically 140/2 right now?
11:06:08hardeephmmmm, is anyone else getting duplicate messages from sourceforge?
11:06:31adi|homei get it from time to time
11:07:10langhaarrockerfrom time to time I accidently send messages twice ...
11:07:11*langhaarrocker blushes</BODY></HTML>
11:07:25LinusNadi|home: default is 70%, but mpeg_sound_set wants 2% steps
11:07:32Zagorhardeep: that's duplicate entries, not duplicate messages...
11:07:34adi|homegot ya...
11:08:21LinusNadi|home: this is because the WPS wanted simple increase/decrease functions without caring how big the steps were
11:08:42adi|homewe no longer had a lang.h file correct?
11:08:47hardeepzagor: yeah, that could be it. they look awfully alike though :)
11:09:20Zagoryeah. and neither had a patch attached...
11:09:25Zagoradi|home: correct
11:09:57LinusNi haven't sent a patch. is it hard to understand how to attach a file?
11:10:57langhaarrockerYou have to check a check box. It' easy to forget that.
11:11:32hardeepokay, known bugs with the repeat mode changes I posted: 1. doesn't display end of playlist when repeat mode is off, 2. toggling off "repeat one" doesn't work at end of buffer
11:12:09adi|homek.. gotta fix the games then.. they are still looking for it
11:12:12hardeepbut, I'm about ready to pass out... i'll look more tomorrow if no one else does
11:12:13adi|homecleaning that up first
11:13:50hardeepg'night all
11:13:51 Quit hardeep ("Leaving")
11:13:55Zagori'm adding a notice about the checkbox
11:14:03LinusNZagor: good
11:14:25adi|homeum.. okay.. im confused..
11:14:31LinusNadi|home: ?
11:14:32adi|homewe DO NOT have a lang.h file?
11:14:39Zagoradi|home: we auto-generate it
11:14:41LinusNwe generate it
11:15:01adi|homethen yes or no on lang.h to be included as a #include?
11:15:13adi|homeor are we just ignoring build errors saying its not found?
11:15:31Zagorwe are ignoring errors from the dependecy generator
11:15:58adi|homesigh.. okay
11:18:12langhaarrockerZagor: Now I finally understand the problem you see with the key schemes. You in fact found a weak point.
11:18:28Zagorlanghaarrocker: ok
11:18:41*adi|home notes that the logic police strike again
11:20:32*langhaarrocker enters a monastery for meditation on the problem
11:20:36LinusNlanghaarrocker: same problem with having F1 return directly to WPS/browser
11:21:02langhaarrockerI'll return when I solved that. CU.
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11:33:26Zagornice commits, adi :-)
11:35:09Zagorwhat do you think about the convert-underscores patch?
11:35:23ZagorI don't like changing the filenames, generally.
11:36:16adi|homevolume increment fixed
11:36:25adi|homecommiting now
11:36:49adi|homeor not.. collision
11:36:51*adi|home sighs
11:40:24adi|homeokay.. now its fixed
11:42:21Zagoradi|home: mark the feature request "fixed" (but don't close it)
11:43:05LinusNadi|home: why did you comment out the value*=2 instead of removing it?
11:43:35adi|homeso that if we decide to make the increment a feature, ppl remember to fix it there to
11:43:48adi|homeif you want to remove it.. do so
11:43:55LinusNwe have CVS
11:44:03Zagorgenerally, we don't keep old code in the files
11:44:15adi|homeoh.. sure.. point out the obvious...
11:44:35Zagorall code older than 4 weeks is automatically removed
11:48:14adi|homewe have 2 sepeareate 1% step requests
11:48:26adi|homeshould i mark the newer as duplicate, or just list both as fixed?
11:48:31adi|homeone mentions the config
11:48:36adi|homethe other mentions it in the comments
11:49:50Zagorjust mark them both as fixed, if they both are
11:50:01adi|homenods even
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11:53:08adi|homehmm.. thats intersted
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11:53:18adi|homeon the resume menu.. with 'on for resume'
11:53:21LinusNadi|home: you must bump the CONFIG_BLOCK_VERSION number
11:53:42adi|homeif you put in the usb.. it detects as a keystroke and goes to dir browswer
11:53:44adi|homeLinusN: where?
11:53:57LinusNotherwise the volume setting will be wrong
11:54:50adi|homei don't get it
11:55:01LinusNsorry, it would be too low
11:55:26LinusNthe volume setting in RTC/disk will be 35
11:55:46adi|homeokay.. and?
11:56:00LinusNif the user had it set to 70 before upgrading
11:56:36LinusNno problem, really, but people will react to that
11:56:53adi|homeim still confused because i don't see what your getting at
11:56:53LinusNwe will need to bump it anyway at 1.4 release time
11:57:04adi|homewhat does the bumping do..t hats what i mean?
11:57:24adi|homehow does it alert the user there was a change?
11:57:27LinusNadi|home: it makes sure that the checksum will not be correct, and the settings are reset to default
11:57:29adi|homeor does it just flush the settings
11:57:43adi|homeahh.. okay.. thats what i was looking for...
11:57:46LinusNthe voume case is not that much of a problem
11:58:00LinusNsince 35 is still a valid value
11:58:16LinusNbut 35 is inaudible for most people
11:58:29LinusNat least on recorders
11:58:46adi|homeis the fact that that needs to be bumped on config changes doc'd anywhere?
11:59:19adi|homehehe k.
11:59:24LinusNdocs/TECH time!
11:59:34LinusNi'll add that
11:59:38adi|homeheheh good
11:59:47adi|homeso you want me to update it or leave it for the 1.4 release?
12:00:12adi|homeand can i assume we'd go from 1 to 2?
12:02:34LinusNthe actual number is not important
12:02:56LinusNdon't ask all these questions! Read the TECH file! :-)
12:03:12adi|homejust read the code
12:03:22adi|homeheheh i will when you finish it :)
12:05:10LinusNi wrote that after i committed
12:06:21adi|homethe explaination is fine.. just got the email
12:08:27Zagorwe need .txt and .eq icons
12:10:47adi|homeshouldn't that not only be 'won't fix'
12:10:49adi|homebut closed?
12:12:40adi|homeso i should close it?
12:17:33Zagordo so
12:22:50LinusNadi|home: maybe you should create a new 12hour clock request?
12:25:52adi|homethats what im doing now
12:27:36adi|homethat shouldn't be too tough to do...
12:28:09adi|homeso thats 5 dups answered/closed where app.
12:29:32adi|homethe .eqs, do those qualify as presets?
12:31:29LinusNhard to say
12:31:39LinusNi think they do
12:32:13adi|homehmm.. ill leave that be then
12:32:18LinusNdo so
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12:44:09Zagoradd a comment about it to the feature req
12:44:20Zagorah, the monk is back from the monastery! :)
12:44:28*langhaarrocker is crying
12:44:38Zagorno solution yet?
12:44:47langhaarrockerI can't solve the puzzle without severe sacrifices.
12:45:02Zagorit can't be that hard, can it?
12:45:13Zagormaybe it can :-)
12:45:34Zagoractually, i think the display feedback issue is more problematic
12:45:35langhaarrockerIt is that _every_ module that has any kind of button processing has the same problem like menus, wps and browser
12:46:35langhaarrockerEither we limit the depth in which they can call each other or we disable that they can call each other completely.
12:47:17langhaarrockerBut there are situations where we want them to call each other and return in the order they were called.
12:48:35LinusNeach of them may return a return code that tells the caller to return too
12:48:58langhaarrockerBut thats just the same as a stack - with reduced memory consuption.
12:49:09LinusNneither nice nor easy
12:51:14adi|homehey zagor.. how would the paragraph symbol work for you as a text icon?
12:52:01Zagorcould work. seems a little non-standard though?
12:52:17adi|homeim trying to find/think of something a little more clear
12:52:35adi|homewe may have to settle for an eq (on a slant) for eq files
12:54:11langhaarrockerTo me it seems we don't get around hard-limiting the calling depth. If a user builds key schemes / menus that exceed these limits we must provide a error screen. But as LinusN suggested we don't have to use the stack but can store the calling order in a cheaper way.
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12:55:17Zagoradi|home: sounds ok for .eq files
12:55:36LinusNwe must still handle the browser->wps->browser->wps->browser problem
12:58:16PsycoXulwhy not just browser<->wps :p
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12:59:22langhaarrockerThat is not a problem as long as it isn't a circle broser->wps->something_else_like_a_menu->browser. Browser->wps->broswer is more something like browser->startwps and than quit wps. So the stack collapses.
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13:00:03Zagorlanghaarrocker: that's enough then. we have no circle mess in the current code either
13:00:22langhaarrockerUnless some user defines F2->browser.
13:00:50langhaarrockerinstead of f2->quit
13:00:52Zagorright, people can always mess up. but as you say, we'll simply have a call stack max depth
13:02:05langhaarrockerI'll try something in that way then.
13:02:05*langhaarrocker is back to monastery</BODY></HTML>
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13:49:10LinusN|meetinghi uwe!
13:49:18 Nick LinusN|meeting is now known as LinusN (
13:50:25thebreakerWhat does |meeting mean?
13:51:08Zagorhe's at a meeting
13:52:19thebreakerSo a @ is not possible in a nickname on irc and one usually uses |for this?
13:52:50thebreakerDid you try the scrolling patch?
13:52:57Zagornot yet
13:53:07Zagorworking on repeat
13:53:18thebreakerRepeat all-1-off?
13:53:31Zagorhardeep wrote a patch
13:55:35thebreakerI once thought that it would be the simplest way to stop (when repeat is off) at the last song without changing the buffering, I mean let rockbox fill the buffer with the first song again but stop plackback when the last song is finished.
13:56:30thebreakerOf course, the better way is not to buffer the first song when it's unnessesary.
13:58:29thebreakerI see I'm also here as "breaker", that was before my connection to the internet was interrupted..
13:59:23thebreakerWhen does the IRC server recognize that 'breaker' is disconnected?
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14:00:43thebreakerOh. now. ;-)
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14:04:32LinusNYo Bagder!
14:04:32Bagderyellow build
14:04:38Bagderhey ho
14:04:53BagderISO 15288 was very interesting... not ;-)
14:05:19bobTHCwhat the exact purpose of the "Clip hold time" Id ?
14:05:44bobTHCit's for my translation work
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14:06:09LinusNit shows that the audio has clipped
14:06:17LinusNand you tell it how long before removing the markes
14:06:38bobTHCok thx
14:06:48ZagorBagder: oh, i completely forgot about all that. :-)
14:07:09BagderZagor: it was *exactly* as boring and as much meta-stuff you can imagine
14:07:25Zagormy subconcious saved me
14:08:11Bagderyeah, I pretty much knew it too, but now I know for sure ;-)
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14:12:08bobTHClinus : clipped when too high ?
14:13:04thebreakerbobTHC: When the sound is too loud. But I don't know how this is detected.
14:20:00Bagderyellow build
14:20:59ZagorBagder: linus fixed it
14:21:04BagderI just noticed
14:28:08*Bagder received his first paypal payment
14:29:14bobTHCu open a paypal account ?
14:29:30BagderI have, yes
14:29:35bobTHCpaypal requiere an us bank account?
14:30:27freshmakerHi Uwe, I tried your bidi-scroll patch. And I like it. I'd like to bidi-scroll even longer lines (e.g. width * 1.4 or 1.5).
14:30:56BagderUwe's not here, is he?
14:33:45thebreakerI am here!
14:33:54Bagderah that's you
14:33:59*Bagder goes stand in the corner
14:35:32thebreakerfreshmaker: Thats a matter of taste.. But ok, 1.4 or 1.5 is also ok.
14:36:33thebreakerZagor: After trying, decide by yourself if 1.2 or 1.5 is better. Take the value you like most.
14:38:54bobTHCwhat's the hell with "Peak release" Linus ?
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14:50:06LinusNpeak release is the rate at which the peak meter decreases
14:52:29thebreakerI have another question: Why is the peak meter so slow? I mean, the first one (in the compiled azbrec.ajz somewhere in the net) was faster.
14:53:12Zagorthebreaker: because I don't allow it to use all available cpu
14:53:42thebreakerTagor: It need not blink very quick on the display, but it seems to me that there are peaks (sound is loud) that aren't shown..
14:53:57Zagorthat's correct
14:54:55thebreakerAre less volume values analyzed as before? Or only less displayed (averages)?
14:55:17thebreakerAre they averages or maximums?
14:55:42Zagori think it simply displays the value it reads
14:56:07LinusNthe max value it has read since the last time it was displayted
14:56:18LinusNit records the max value
14:56:45LinusNit is pretty useless as it is now
14:56:49LinusNi'd like it faster
14:56:49thebreakerThat should be ok then. But maybe it should read out more (all?) values? Or does this also consume too much cpu?
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14:57:03LinusNthat is what takes all cpu
14:57:04Zagorthe "original" (archos) is rather useless too
14:58:17thebreakerBut to - tell the truth - after trying the "new" rockbox peak meter I disabled it again (in my .wps), because it doesn't really show the maximum peaks.
14:58:47DjangoHi! Question: how do I tell a button press from press-and-hold in the dirbrowser?
14:59:22ZagorDjango: you don't. you can only separate hold (BUTTON_REPEAT) from release (BUTTON_REL)
14:59:36Zagoryou will always get a button press first
15:00:36DjangoArchos has "queue" feature, you have to press and hold the play button.
15:00:43DjangoI wann do that in rockbox.
15:01:13Zagorthen check for repeat
15:01:13Django.. because it also works with the player.
15:01:28DjangoI did but it is kludgy.
15:01:34thebreakerZagor: What's bad of allowing the peak meter to get much cpu power? Is the power cunsumption (batteries) much higher then?
15:02:14Zagorthebreaker: it will, when we fix powersave mode. also it makes bitswapping slower.
15:02:27DjangoCan I detect a button release?
15:02:30LinusNthebreaker: it will make the whole system sluggish, and prevents us from using the CPU sleep mode
15:02:33ZagorDjango: yes. BUTTON_REL
15:02:36LinusNDjango: BUTTON_REL
15:03:08DjangoDo I have to enable that via a mask?
15:03:16ZagorDjango: yes
15:03:39DjangoWill enabling that break other code?
15:03:47ZagorDjango: no
15:04:02DjangoOk, thanks. I'll give it a try.
15:04:23Zagoronly tetris... :-)
15:04:49DjangoI will only spoil the dir browser :-)
15:04:58LinusNi am examining a 57MB VBRI file i have made
15:06:08LinusNlooks like the VBRI format can't handle that
15:13:27ZagorLinusN: are you serious?
15:14:07LinusNit sure looks like it
15:14:35LinusNit uses 16-bit words for the relative offsets in the file
15:15:11LinusNgotta go
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15:21:57bobTHCpeak release is very hard to translate !!!
15:22:17bobTHCin few words
15:23:34bobTHCin french it's like : "taux de baisse de l'indicateur de crte "
15:23:50bobTHCit's a bit longer :)
15:24:53bobTHC2 words in english 8 in french, bad translation rate !
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15:29:35thebreakerI'm updating the deutsch.lang with new words now. uplang makes some "English phrase was changed!" in the new file. Can I delete these lines?
15:29:52Bagderthose are only comments, yes, delete them
15:30:44thebreakerBut the sorting of the 'translation blocks' must remain unchanged, didn't I read something like that somewhere?
15:32:04Bagdernah only new needs to be last
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15:34:59bobTHCand when in english it's "empty" can i delete it?
15:35:17ZagorbobTHC: no
15:35:33Zagorempty strings must stay, otherwise the order becomes wrong
15:36:43*bobTHC commit the new francais.lang
15:40:49thebreakerArr. So I can delete the translation when the "eng:" and "new:" is filled out and must not delete when it's eng: "" ?
15:41:11Zagornever delete strings
15:41:53thebreakerThen I misunderstood you before..
15:42:26Zagorall strings are indexed. if we delete a string in the middle, the ones after will get wrong index
15:46:47thebreakerWhat is peak release doing? Does it mean how quick the bar goes smaller? (values per read)?
15:47:01thebreakerSo how many reads/sec is the same everytime?
15:47:19Zagorpeak values are held longer than they last for real. they wouldn't be visible otherwise.
15:47:32Zagorpeak release is how slow/fast they go down
15:47:38thebreakerok, tnx.
15:49:13bobTHCwhen u convert the *.lang file to the binary *.lng file on the website ? @ itch commit ?
15:49:41bobTHCor manualy ?
15:50:13Zagorperiodically, using a cron job
15:50:21Zagorevery hour i did it @ home for test it, thx
15:57:17thebreakerI saw that LANG_SHUFFLE is only used in the F2 screen, is this right? (Shouldn't it be called LANG_F2_SHUFFLE?)
15:58:05thebreakerThe translation for Shuffle is "Zufallswiedergabe" and this is too long for the F2 screen. So I want it to change to "Zufalls-" (makes sense with "modus:" on the next line).
15:58:14Zagorthebreaker: string ids should simply convey the string meaning, not where they are used. "Shuffle" is also used in settings_menu.c, for example
15:59:21thebreakerHm, so I have to call it "Zufallswiedergabe" even it's a little bit long. (Doesn't interfere with another string yet because there's no function for F2+right.)
15:59:54Zagorthere will be soon: repeat
16:02:45thebreakerAnd now? As I told, "Zufalls-" or "Zufall" would be ok for F2 menu, but is not a complete translation for the (F1) menu. (Zufall = Random)
16:03:43Zagorwell the F1 menu uses only "Shuffle" in english (not "Shuffle mode") so I guess maybe it's acceptable in german too?
16:04:28thebreakerI think there is no shuffle option in the F1 menu at all!
16:04:35thebreakerOr where is it?
16:05:06Zagorit's disabled for recorders, but I will reenable it again
16:05:51thebreakerAnother thing: There are some boolean menu options that are "yes/no" and others are "on/off". Shouldn't this made consistent?
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16:07:24Zagorthebreaker: it should
16:07:33Zagorfeel free to fix it
16:08:14Zagorlanghaarrocker: are you double-clicking that submit button, langhaarrocker?
16:08:32langhaarrockerI hate that thing.
16:10:45langhaarrockerIt's because when I dial in my provider shows me his own page once - no matter what page I request. So after submitting I only saw some freenet page instead of the sf thing. Refreshing the sf patch tracker I didn't see it thus I assumed the upload failed. But it didn't.
16:11:49Zagorah. evil isp.
16:12:03langhaarrockeryes, it never is my fault.
16:14:30freshmakerthose crummy bastards. i don't like 'em, too. they always put you onto _their_ pages, when the forced proxy couldn't (or won't?) fetch you requested page.
16:15:18langhaarrockerZagor: Would you trust in the code of somebody who obviously isn't capable of submitting mails / patches once only?
16:16:32Zagorlanghaarrocker: you know i review your code extra carefully :)
16:17:06langhaarrockerOnly after that I trust in my own code. Well. Sometimes.
16:18:34langhaarrockerSomehow I miss that red colour in the daily builds. It looked so busy.
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16:34:30hardeepmorning all
16:35:03Zagorhi hardeep
16:36:18Zagorhardeep: i did some changes to your repeat patch, but it's not ready and I need to go. would you like to continue where I left off?
16:36:41hardeepzagor: sure
16:37:58Zagorhardeep: ok, grab this:
16:38:44Zagorbasically, all I've done is change mpeg.c so it doesn't prev/next "around" if repeat is off
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16:42:04hardeepoh right, that makes sense
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18:02:28langhaarrockerfeature request: more star levels :)
18:10:37hardeepfeature request: DENIED
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21:30:00 Nick seb-away is now known as _seb_ (
21:36:09 Join YeAhx [0] (~aarond@
21:39:27YeAhxhow come some things repeat so much in the change log?
21:39:52YeAhxkind of funny
21:42:28PsycoXuldifferent files in the same group of changes
21:43:26YeAhxI thought it was something like that after looking at it for a while
21:45:18YeAhxrockbox is so nice, it makes my archos less of a pain in the ass durring listening
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21:48:18YeAhxwish it could get rid of the problems I have with it when its connected to my computer sometimes but I know thats something else :)
21:57:41 Join langhaarrocker [0] (
21:58:34langhaarrockerDoes anybody know a clever algorithm for calculating an id from a string? Something like calculating a hash key?
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22:54:42Djangohardeep: are you around?
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23:01:40 Nick Werty1st|pennen is now known as werty1st (
23:01:55DBUGEnqueued KICK werty1st
23:01:55werty1stwhat does peakmeter mean?
23:05:40Djangopeak meter shows the amplitude of the output signal
23:06:05Djangoit is the last line on the wps, below the progress bar.
23:06:43Djangoonly for the recorder, not the player.
23:11:54werty1sti have the recorder
23:13:26werty1stwhat does play selected first mean
23:13:42DjangoI don't know.
23:15:13werty1stok ,8<,8>,1 THX ,8<,8> anyway
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