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#rockbox log for 2002-10-14

00:26:01 Join langhaarrocker [0] (
00:46:04 Quit Hadaka (
00:46:31NJoinHadaka [0] (
00:54:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:05:04 Quit langhaarrocker (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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02:33:59 Join dfg [0] (
02:52:26 Quit langhaarrocker (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:54:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:08:21 Nick _seb_ is now known as seb-away (
03:28:07 Nick seb-away is now known as _seb_ (
03:41:44 Join Zuikan [0] (
03:42:29Zuikanwhat is the bit pattern used for the remote commands?
04:02:36 Quit mecraw1212 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
04:09:22Zuikananyone here?
04:13:40Zuikandoes anyone know what the bit patterns are for the remote commands?
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06:57:57 Quit edx ("off for school")
07:03:36 Nick _seb_ is now known as seb-sleep (
07:05:36 Join wallie [0] (
07:10:08 Part wallie
07:13:51 Join Zagor [242] (
07:14:03Zagormorn all
07:17:47adi|homei killed that 'hold' request that was put in..
07:17:57adi|homesounded like they wanted key locking.. we already have hat...
07:18:13adi|homebtw.. im fixing the 'reset settings' option
07:18:35adi|homesince i pulled the button repeat/release stuff.. its not working right
07:19:11adi|homeoh.. yeah.. and im selling your sister into white slavery.. i hope thats okay
07:34:39adi|homewhats the diff between button_get_w_tmo
07:34:42adi|homeand button_get
07:34:52Zagorbutton_get(true) has no timeout
07:35:18adi|homeso what would be the advantage of using the tmo.
07:35:31adi|homewhat i mean, is ther a time we _dont_ want to use button_get
07:35:51Zagorfor example the wps needs to update the screen periodically, so it can't hang on button_get() forever
07:36:08adi|homebut in menus the button_get is acceptable yes?
07:36:27Zagoryes, because we don't have to update the screen frequently there
07:36:37adi|homek.. just double checking
07:43:05adi|homehmm.. there has to be another way to do this...
07:43:16adi|homewhen i get this working.. ill need your opinion on something
07:43:48Zagorsure. i'm full of opinions :-)
07:46:18 Join calpefrosch [0] (
07:50:13 Nick calpefrosch is now known as calpe[brb] (
07:51:30adi|homedoes the player have an on and off?
07:51:35adi|homeor just play and stop?
07:51:37Zagoronly on
07:51:47Zagorstop is used for power-off
07:52:07adi|homethe reset settings option
07:52:15adi|homeright now its confirmation is: play for yes
07:52:19adi|homeand anything else for no
07:52:25adi|homeany prob if stop becomes no?
07:52:33adi|homefor player
07:52:35Zagorno, but why limit it?
07:52:36adi|homeand off for rec?
07:52:52adi|homebecause its a pain to detect now that set_release set_repeat is gone.
07:53:05Zagoris it?
07:53:16adi|homesell.. im doing a button_get
07:53:25adi|homeand if its play or play/repeat we take it as yes
07:53:34adi|homeif we get a repeat, we should ignore it
07:53:45adi|homeand if we get anything else, then we take it..
07:53:49adi|homei mean
07:53:58Zagoryou will always get play before play+repeat
07:54:14Zagorso you can simply check for play or !play
07:54:19adi|homebasically... right arrow and repeat are being caught as the 'other' when you move off menu to the actual setting reset
07:54:52 Join mj_home [0] (
07:54:53adi|homethe main prob is that 'other' is off
07:55:07adi|homeso right arrow repeat is automatically 'canceling' our changes.
07:55:13*adi|home wonders if that makes sense...
07:55:15adi|hometry it...
07:55:21adi|homegen settings -> reset...
07:55:39Zagorah, ok. now I understand the problem
07:55:56mj_homeGood evening. Is this a good place to ask questions about problems with trying out Rockbox, or should I go somewhere else?
07:56:05Zagormj_home: this is the place
07:56:14mj_homeAh, excellent.
07:56:19Zagoradi|home: ok, well in this case I'm all for OFF/STOP as no
07:57:06mj_homeZagor: Should I just launch into my story, or is there some etiquette I need to be aware of?
07:57:18Zagormj_home: just fire away :-)
07:57:26mj_homeZagor: Cool!
07:58:34mj_homeZagor: Before I begin, I should mention that I am someone who uses Linux as my primary OS, but this is a recent change. Therefore, please forgive any obvious mistakes I made or any obvious lapses in knowledge/judegement...
07:58:54mj_homeI have used Windows with my Archos 5000 in the past.
07:59:15mj_homeAt the advice of a friend, I downloaded Rockbox and tried to install it on my Archos.
07:59:38mj_homeTo do so, I first needed to figure out how to gain access to it (I'm using Mandrake 9.0, BTW).
08:00:09mj_homeSo I edited /etc/fstab, and added "/dev/sda1 /mnt/archos vfat umask=0 0 0"
08:00:29mj_homeAnd then I've been mounting the Archos with sudo mount /mnt/archose
08:00:54mj_homeFollowing the instructions, I unzipped the contents of the zip file at the root level of my Archos.
08:01:10mj_homeIt warned me that it was overwriting some files; I assumed this was OK.
08:01:36mj_homeOnce it was done, I cd'ed out of the archos dir, and then attempted to sudo umount. This hung.
08:02:00mj_homeFrom another window, I cat'ed /proc/mounts, and saw that /mnt/archos was no longer listed.
08:02:12Zagorit doesn't really hang, it just takes several minutues to flush to usb
08:02:20mj_homeuh oh
08:02:44mj_homeSo, in my idiocy, I kill -9'ed that umount
08:02:52PsycoXulit can really hang, but most of the time it's just being slow
08:03:10mj_homeNow my Archos won't boot, and if I try to mount it, it says /dev/sda1 is an invalid block device
08:03:16ZagorPsycoXul: correct, there are bugs that can make it hang too
08:03:16mj_homeI'm feeling pretty stupid
08:03:32mj_homeZagor: Um, any advice?
08:03:40Zagormj_home: have you rebooted since you killed umount?
08:03:58PsycoXulso now i wonder how rockbox'll react to me adding stuff to a playlist that it'll try to resume shuffled
08:04:00mj_homeMy Linux box? No. My Archos? Yes.
08:04:20mj_homeZagor: Should I reboot my Linux box?
08:04:33Zagormj_home: doing this kind of thin can confuse usb-storage. that's probably why you can't remount the archos. yes, try a reboot.
08:05:12PsycoXulheh just resumed into a diff file is all i guess
08:05:29ZagorPsycoXul: rockbox remembers the line numbers
08:06:07ZagorPsycoXul: so it will be ok if you add it to the end. unless you shuffle. that will give everything a new random order.
08:06:23PsycoXulyeah it's shuffled
08:06:28mj_homeZagor: OK, I'll try that. Thanks! I hope I won't have to come back and bug you some more.
08:06:28PsycoXuland i added stuff in the middle too
08:06:46Zagormj_home: :-) no problem
08:06:49*mj_home waves, and thanks Zagor once again
08:06:50 Quit mj_home ("Client Exiting")
08:07:08ZagorPsycoXul: then you'll simply resume to the wrong track with wrong shuffle order
08:07:56PsycoXuloh well
08:09:32PsycoXuli added 87 tracks all scattered through the middle heh
08:09:51PsycoXulmy wholedisk.m3u is now up to 3062 tracks
08:10:37PsycoXulah damn
08:10:42PsycoXuli broke going to the browser again...
08:10:50PsycoXulor something did
08:11:27PsycoXulZagor: i added an on+play in WPS to turn the screen on/off
08:12:05PsycoXuland since it's only in the wps, i made it turn the screen on when switching to browser or menu
08:12:13ZagorON play was already taken...
08:12:22PsycoXulthis is only on the player
08:12:52PsycoXuli just added some lines to wps.c and a function to turn the screen on and off
08:14:15PsycoXulbut the way i did it, if i release the keys too quick after turning the screen off, or maybe it's the order i release the keys in or something, i'm not sure... it'll switch to the browser
08:14:39PsycoXulit normally doesn't, it's just some funky way when i release the keys quickly it happens
08:15:05Zagorlook at my pitch screen implementation on the recorder
08:19:17PsycoXuli don't like the way while/switch's are scattered around looking for buttons all over the place
08:19:43Zagorit's either that or a dozen state variables
08:19:53Zagorseparate switches are a lot more readable
08:29:09 Join mjamil_home [0] (
08:29:21mjamil_homeZagor: Hello. I'm back.
08:29:29 Nick mjamil_home is now known as mj (
08:29:39Zagorany luck?
08:30:07mjZagor: On your advice, I waited for the umount to end on its own. It gave me a kernel panic message after about 5 minutes and froze my Linux box.
08:30:23mjI think this may be an issue with my usb modules.
08:30:36mjI'm just using the default that's loaded by Mandrake.
08:30:53mjThat machine is rebooting right now
08:31:18mjI had to power it down by pulling the power to it
08:31:33mjNot happy about that :(
08:31:55Zagorwhich kernel version is this?
08:31:58mjAnyway, it did mount properly after the restart. That's a good thing!
08:32:07mjI believe its 2.4.19.
08:32:16mjBut Mandrake plays with it a bit.
08:32:31Zagorare you using usb-uhci.o och uhci.o ? (you should use usb-uhci.o)
08:33:18mjI will check that. Um, what are the commands to list and remove modules? I know that modprobe is used to add modules...
08:33:47PsycoXullsmod - lists
08:33:49PsycoXulrmmod - removes
08:33:53PsycoXulinsmod - inserts
08:34:05PsycoXulmodprobe it sorta like an insmod frontend
08:34:06*mj gets his Linux laptop and does a lsmod
08:34:37mjI see usb-uhci
08:35:16mjPsycoXul: thx
08:35:44mjZagor: Should I try to hook up the Archos and mount it again?
08:35:54mjActually, are my /etc/fstab settings correct?
08:36:16Zagorthey look ok to me
08:36:17mjOr do you use some other parameters when you mount your Archos>
08:36:47PsycoXulyou might wanna add noauto to the options
08:36:52PsycoXulso that it doesn't try to mount on boot
08:37:02mjPsycoXul: ok
08:37:07*mj changes his fstab
08:38:15mjZagor: OK, mounting the Archos again...
08:38:48mjOK, mounted successfully.
08:39:13mjls -al shows that archos.mod is new.
08:39:18mjFrom today, that is.
08:40:00mjI don't know if it (or other required) software was properly downloaded
08:40:18mjBecause it still won't move past the first screen when I power it up.
08:40:21mjAny ideas?
08:40:27mjWant me to add/remove files from it?
08:40:37PsycoXulthe first screen?
08:40:42Zagortry simply unzipping the archive again, then unmounting
08:40:43mjOr just see if I can umount it without doing anything?
08:40:45PsycoXulyou mean the rom version bootup screen?
08:40:49PsycoXuldoes it get stuck there?
08:40:52mjIt just freezes there
08:41:05PsycoXulsounds like wrong player version mod
08:41:16Zagoraahh, right
08:41:17PsycoXulif you're getting one for player get it for player-new
08:41:20PsycoXulor vice versa
08:41:27mjI got the one marked for the 5000 on your Web site
08:41:35*mj will download again, just to be sure
08:41:40mjOh wait
08:41:57PsycoXulwhats the rom firmware ver?
08:41:57mjThe file is named ""
08:42:06mjThats gotta be the correct one, right?
08:42:20mj5.08, I think
08:42:27Zagorthat should be correct
08:42:29*mj is going on memory for that one
08:42:37mjSo that's not the problem
08:42:48mjIs my Archos dying/dead?
08:43:02Zagormj: no, it's just a mod problem
08:43:09PsycoXulhow about the batteries
08:43:22mjPsycoXul: Full
08:43:40mjI cant tell, obviously
08:43:48mjBut they *should* be full
08:44:10PsycoXultry with the charger plugged in just for shits and giggles
08:44:22PsycoXulwith these things what the batteries *should* be isn't always what they are heh
08:44:24mjPsycoXul: The sad thing is I don't have it on me. It's at work.
08:44:31mjPsycoXul: Question for you...
08:44:48PsycoXuli still dunno what the hell drains the battery on players while it's turned off
08:44:52mjPsycoXul: I was using the Archos all day in my car with one of those car lighter charger things.
08:45:01mjPsycoXul: Does that charge the batteries too>
08:45:10mjPsycoXul: Or could it be draining them?
08:45:20PsycoXulusing it tends to drain more than the charger charges
08:45:34PsycoXulso it just drains slower than normal
08:45:41mjThen this might be because of low battery power
08:46:06PsycoXulwell is the HD making noises like it's trying to spin up over and over?
08:46:08Zagordo you have the charger? plug it in.
08:46:15mjZagor: When I asked whether my Archos may be dying, its because this freeze happened on my car trip as well.
08:46:17PsycoXulthats what mine usualy does if the batteries are low
08:46:28mjZagor: I don't. It's at work. I'm at home.
08:47:03mjPsycoXul: It must have some battery power because its been sitting while we've been talking, saying USB Active, all this time.
08:47:12mjIt's still mounted on the laptop.
08:47:27PsycoXulthen thats probably not it
08:47:47mjPsycoXul: Should I delete the archos.mod file?
08:48:05mjActually, Zagor, I'll ask that to you as well...
08:48:28*mj is hoping this is just a mod problem
08:54:39 Nick mj is now known as mjamil (
08:54:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:55:15mjamilGuys, I'll get some power for the Archos, and try later. Thanks for your help!
08:55:27 Quit mjamil ("Client Exiting")
08:58:37calpe[brb]Zagor: I think you are an experienced open source developer. Can you give me some advice ?
08:58:45 Nick calpe[brb] is now known as calpefrosch (
08:59:06Zagorcalpefrosch: sure
08:59:49calpefroschtnx. I'd like to start an open source project on
09:00:46calpefroschIt is an project for a german home automation system and I have to reverse-engineer some communication-protocol. Can this become a problem for me because of some copyrights ?
09:01:43 Join Bagder [241] (
09:02:04Zagorcalpefrosch: generally, no. but this naturally depends on your local laws. copyright, however, concerns taking other peoples intellectual property and distributing it
09:02:43Zagorcalpefrosch: creating new software for interoperability is not a copyright infringement, since you are making new intellectual property
09:03:10Zagorcalpefrosch: the only issue in this case would be if they had some patent or some such involved in the protocol, but that seems unlikely
09:03:13ZagorBagder: hi there
09:03:36Bagdertried my scroll yet? ;-)
09:03:56ZagorBagder: uh, no. was that the ON in bouncer?
09:03:57calpefroschThere is one company selling these hw-modules. I have to log the communication and put it in my own software. So I'm using the intellectual property of this company, or not ? Like we are using the archos hardware.
09:04:03BagderZagor: yeps
09:04:13Zagorok, i thought that was the clock. will try now.
09:05:03*Bagder was in demo-mood yday
09:05:33Zagorcalpefrosch: if you are using their software, you are in trouble.
09:05:51Zagorcalpefrosch: if you are just listening to the behaviour of your own equipment (bought from them) there is no problem
09:06:29calpefroschsecond, so I don't have a problem ;-)
09:06:43PsycoXulZagor: adding a ignore_keyup=true; into my BUTTON_ON | BUTTON_PLAY case seems to have fixed my problem heh
09:06:54ZagorBagder: nice! nostalgic feelings :-)
09:07:10Zagorcalpefrosch: good
09:07:18BagderI thought about making it display text files ;-)
09:08:31calpefroschZagor: thanks for your advice, cu
09:13:25Zagorcalpefrosch: still, I'm only speaking from swedish experience. some countries have stricter laws on reverse-engineering. you should look into your local laws.
09:15:22calpefroschZagor: yes, I'm already facing a problem with the naming of the project, because the name "LCN" is a registered trademark. So I have to look ...
09:40:59Schnueffhehe, just saw a freshmeat announcement for a text reader: HitMe! is a viewer which displays text files word by word with a very short interval, making it possible to read quickly and efficiently, as no time is wasted on eyeball movement or verse tracking.
09:41:07Schnueffcould be of use for rockbox, too :)
09:41:27*Schnueff tries not to waste time on eyeball movement.
09:41:34*adi|home dusts off his LART and beats Schnueff viciously
09:44:54 Join bobTHC [0] (
09:45:04bobTHCgood morning all!
09:45:13Bagdermorning bob
09:45:18adi|homeZagor.. i thought you said that if button_get(true) doesn't return till a key is hit?
09:46:12Bagderit returns on key "events", where release is one event
09:47:19adi|homehmmm.. cause im sitting in a while(1) loop
09:47:24adi|homewith a button_get(true)
09:47:31adi|homeand in the sim it just seems to cycle
09:47:35adi|homedoes sim handle diff?
09:48:45Bagderonly slightly
09:49:01Bagderit generates both down and up events at the same time
09:49:36adi|homeZagor... this off/stop change in the settings necesitates a change in the english language...
09:49:41adi|homeany prob with that?
09:54:30adi|homeany particular reason we have 2 diff confirmation strings for players vs recorders on setting resets?
09:54:35adi|homewe have "Really?" for player
09:54:44adi|homeand "Are you sure?" for REcorder
09:54:58Zagorjust because "Are you sure?" is nicer, but too long for players
09:55:18adi|homeahh. how wide char wise is the player?
09:58:55 Join langhaarrocker [0] (
10:06:11*Bagder makes a good fix here
10:06:42*Zagor makes good coffee here
10:06:53Bagderdarn, I lost again
10:07:06*langhaarrocker wishes someone fixed a good make
10:07:26langhaarrockereg in uisimulator/win32 ...
10:07:28Bagdermake is good already! ;-)
10:07:34Bagderlanghaarrocker: edx works on thata
10:07:51langhaarrockerHe'll be the guy of the hour then
10:08:05Bagderhe made it build and run yday
10:08:09 Join TotMacher [0] (
10:09:25langhaarrockerI'm so inpatient but probably noone botherd looking at my key scheme code, yet.
10:09:42Schnueffmoin mbr
10:09:43BagderI havent't
10:10:23langhaarrockerBagder: what do you fix?
10:10:37BagderI make the x11 sim better
10:11:05langhaarrocker:( a change I probably never will see.
10:11:44langhaarrockerBagder: And afterwards the cube demo won't be overspeed any more? :)
10:12:20Bagderactually, I fixed that yday :-)
10:12:49Bagderthis fix makes the simulator send button events much more as the target does
10:13:20adi|homeZagor.. just realized a prob...
10:13:29adi|homethe settings reset
10:13:47 Quit TotMacher ()
10:13:49adi|homewe tell the user that on is yes on the player
10:13:53Bagderadi|home: just as a reminder, I still await your highres photoshop version
10:14:05adi|homebut we have no room/way to tell them that stop means off
10:14:08*adi|home nods to Bagder
10:14:16adi|homethats when im back on campus
10:14:33adi|homeyou'll get it last AM my time
10:14:45Zagoradi|home: use both lines. "PLAY=Reset" "STOP=Cancel"
10:22:19adi|homeplayer sim, what is the key for ON?
10:22:43Bagderits impossible to remember :-)
10:22:58Zagornah, it's the numpad
10:23:04Zagornothing strange
10:26:10adi|homezagor.. mind going to spam for a sec?
10:35:44langhaarrockerZagor: haven't you written a good read_line?
10:36:43mbrSomeone had a look at my multiline scroll patch?
10:39:57*Bagder haven't tested, but things it sounds fine! ;-)
10:44:50Zagorlanghaarrocker: not yet
10:45:03ZagorBagder: did you make genlang return an error code?
10:45:13Zagori think it shoul
10:45:38Bagderit'll cause a compiler error anyway
10:45:50Bagderif there's a missing lang enum I mean
10:46:14Zagoryes, but it's better complaining about the .lang file than the .c file
10:50:04adi|homeokay.. when i change something in english.lang (other then commiting) is there anything special i need to do?
10:51:28Bagderthe makefile should deal with it
10:51:44 Part langhaarrocker
10:52:39 Join langhaarrocker [0] (
10:54:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:55:17 Join LinusN [0] (
10:55:27ZagorBagder: any way you can make repeat work in the sim too?
10:55:29Zagorhi linus
10:55:30Bagderhi linus
10:55:59BagderZagor: probably
10:56:51ZagorBagder: that would be very nice. then there is very little difference btwn sim and target button handling
10:59:57LinusNwhat's up with the danish peak meter problem?
11:00:44Zagorisn't it just a missing string?
11:00:54*Zagor hasn't looked
11:01:46LinusNbut shouldn't missing strings be replaced with the english version?
11:03:18adi|homeanyone have a player and is willing to lose their settings for a test for me?
11:04:00Zagorid: LANG_PM_MENU
11:04:00Zagordesc: in the display menu
11:04:00Zagoreng: "Peak meter"
11:04:00Zagor### Not previously translated
11:04:00Zagornew: ""
11:04:21Zagorthat's the reason
11:04:53Zagori'll fix it
11:05:01adi|homezagor let me commit my english before you fix that k?
11:05:39Zagoradi|home: it doesn't make a difference. this is dansk.lang
11:05:54adi|homeahh.. hehe k.. nm then :)
11:06:48Zagoractually, many languages have empty strings
11:06:50LinusNdammit, i really thought we got rid of the gaps between the tracks (complaint on Yahoo)
11:07:00ZagorLinusN: yeah, that's odd
11:07:10adi|homefuck em
11:07:14adi|hometill they complain on the list
11:07:26ZagorBagder: maybe genlang could simply ignore new: "" strings?
11:07:34adi|homeim not willing to fix bugs they aren't willing to report through proper channels :)
11:08:59Zagorah, that reminds me. we should announce that we now accept bug reports on daily builds.
11:09:01BagderZagor: that would remove the ability to build non-english versions
11:09:29Bagderwhich some people do
11:09:36ZagorBagder: i mean treat 'new: ""' the same as 'new: '
11:09:43Zagori.e use the english string
11:09:49Bagderthat we should
11:13:25adi|homeokay.. settings reset fixed
11:14:04adi|homethe whole button_set/repeat issue is just going to have to continue being fixed as we find issues..
11:14:30adi|homeZagor: f1 quickscreen? (for keylock, mute and ID3 browser)
11:14:35adi|homehow if f1 is our menu key?
11:15:09Zagoradi|home: my thinking was doing it the same way as ON. i.e screen does not show until repeat kicks in
11:15:49adi|homeahh... hmmm...
11:15:56adi|homeouch.. button difference again...
11:16:02adi|homeon recorder
11:16:04Zagoronly, uh, that's broken now :-)
11:16:06adi|homedo f1 then f2
11:16:16adi|homecant get in
11:16:19adi|homebut do f3 and you can
11:16:22adi|homeill fix that
11:16:50Zagorthat was sort of intentional, but I agree it doesn't feel right
11:17:04adi|homei think you should be able to jump to any menu....
11:17:23adi|homehmmm but...
11:17:33adi|homeif i do: f1 -> f2 -> f3 -> f2
11:17:38langhaarrockerSwitching from f2 to f3 quick screen is problematic with key schemes
11:17:39adi|homethen when im done
11:17:47adi|homeill exit back to f3 then f2 again
11:17:49adi|homewhich is odd...
11:18:14adi|homewould it make more sense to just say 'you can't just menus, you must exit the one your in'?
11:18:32Zagoradi|home: yes, i definitely think so. f3 from f2 is pointless imho.
11:19:04Zagorwe simply won't be able to "go anywhere from anywhere"
11:22:16adi|homeso i should fix it then?
11:22:37Zagoradi|home: fix what exactly?
11:22:52adi|homewell right now you can go from the f1 menu to the f3
11:22:56adi|homeand when you exit f3
11:22:58adi|homeyou back on f1
11:23:03adi|homebut you can't do that for f2
11:23:21adi|homewas going to make it so you have to exit back to the directory to go to another menu
11:23:27adi|homebrowser rather
11:23:31Zagornah, just add f2 to menu.c
11:24:05adi|homebut thats confusing...
11:24:14adi|homebecause you can't go from f3 -> f2 or f2 -> f3
11:24:47Zagorwell f1 and f2/f3 are not comparable screens
11:24:55langhaarrockerWhen talking about the quick screens: I think we really should make them more generic. I have already made generic quick screens but they use my key schemes already.
11:24:59Zagorf1 is the menu. f2/f3 are dumb quickscreens
11:25:00adi|homeright, for now their not
11:25:11adi|homebut your also talking about f1 become a quickscreen on repeat
11:25:32adi|homelanghaarrocker: what are this schemes your talking bout?
11:25:38Zagorlanghaarrocker: i did a more generic, but it actually becomes more complex than having these hardcoded
11:25:40adi|homei saw the email.. but i don't get the purpose
11:25:44adi|homei was away for that :)
11:26:01langhaarrockerbindable key schemes
11:26:22Zagoradi|home: ah, right. forgot that. so what was your suggestion again?
11:26:45adi|homebasically you need to exit the current menu/quickscreen before continuing on to another
11:27:09 Nick LinusN is now known as LinusN|lunch (
11:27:10adi|homei just think its either you can jump to/from any menu to any menu
11:27:12adi|homeor you can't...
11:27:20adi|homethere shoulnd't be a hodge-podge
11:27:36*adi|home nods to langhaarrocker
11:27:37Zagoradi|home: don't mix screens and menus. we only have one menu
11:27:54Zagoryou can't jump between screens
11:28:10adi|homehmmm dunno if i agree.. but i'd go with it...
11:28:29adi|homebut you _could_ jump from the F1_repeat quickscreen to f2 or f3
11:28:36LinusN|lunchadi|home: there is a UI issue with being able to go from anywhere to anywhere
11:28:44Zagoradi|home: we'd get a stack problem
11:28:52*adi|home nods to LinusN|lunch i know.. thats why im bringing it up
11:29:04LinusN|lunchthat means that we can't reassign the F-keys in different contexts
11:29:12LinusN|lunchcontexts are good imho
11:29:27Zagori think it's much better to require exiting the F screens before going somewhere else
11:29:30*adi|home points out that hes not the one that wants to reassigne keys
11:29:34LinusN|lunchZagor: i agree fully
11:29:35adi|homeright.. thats what im saying
11:29:42adi|homeokay.. so we all agree...
11:29:54LinusN|lunchadi|home: reassigning keys is a different thing
11:29:56adi|homeyou need to exit a menu OR a quickscreen
11:30:04Zagoradi|home: no, just a quickscreen
11:30:06adi|homewhen did reassigning come up?
11:30:17*adi|home slaps you all with a small fish
11:30:21LinusN|lunchyou just pointed it out
11:30:29ZagorF2+F3 can be reached from: Browser, Wps and Menu
11:30:35langhaarrockerI don't see why there are restrictions that fn screens can't be context sensitive.
11:30:38adi|homeno... im taking info from Zagors todo list
11:30:42adi|homeim not making it up :)_
11:30:43ZagorF3 cannot be reached from F2 screen
11:30:50LinusN|lunchfor example
11:30:55adi|homeright .. i agree with you zagor
11:30:58Zagorlanghaarrocker: they can. they just aren't, right now
11:31:06adi|homef2 !-> f3
11:31:09adi|homef3 !-> f2
11:31:22*adi|home points at zagor
11:31:23langhaarrockeradj|home: yes
11:31:37adi|homehe mentioned the idea of F1_REPEAT being another quickscreen as well
11:31:46adi|homethats what im talking about with f1 -> f2 or f3
11:32:07langhaarrockerbut not f1|repeat -> f3 or f2
11:32:11 Join Ennan [0] (
11:32:12Zagoradi|home: right, but Menu and F1-screen will then be two different things
11:32:17adi|homeright.. and THAT is confusing...
11:32:28adi|homethats to lang not you zagor
11:32:28Zagornot really, they will look very different
11:32:33adi|homeno no no
11:32:35adi|homehold on.
11:32:37Zagoroh :-)
11:32:44adi|home<langhaarrocker> but not f1|repeat -> f3 or f2
11:32:49adi|home<adi|home> right.. and THAT is confusing...
11:32:52adi|homeread it that way :)
11:33:23langhaarrockeradj|home: you need other things to confuse me.
11:33:42adi|homesure.. want to meet my girlfried?
11:33:47adi|homeshe confuses the fuck outta everyone
11:33:52langhaarrockerhrgh. girls
11:33:56adi|homedeep fried
11:34:00adi|homechicken batter
11:34:13*adi|home smirks at the idea that she is finger licking good
11:34:14*adi|home ducks
11:34:33*adi|home bows
11:34:42adi|homeokay... so.. to reiterate and beat the horse again
11:34:46adi|homef2 !-> f3
11:34:51adi|homef3 !-> f2
11:34:58EnnanDoes anybody know if the play_list function from playlist.c has changed it's number of arguments in the new version?
11:35:02adi|homef1_menu to quickscreens is good
11:35:09adi|homebut not f1_repeat to f2 or f3
11:35:15Zagoradi|home: right
11:35:20adi|homeokay.. i fix then
11:35:44ZagorEnnan: define "new version". we make new versions every 20 minutes...
11:36:24langhaarrockerIf we go bindable keys we can reuse that mechanism for quick screens and then it is less complex than doing all that switch(button) stuff.
11:36:41EnnanWell, that's what i don't know :) I have this patch, and it even comes with a recorder compile, so i guess it was once compilable, but know it just has to little arguments for some functions..that could never compile, right?
11:37:08Zagorlanghaarrocker: the keys are simple. it's the screen layout that is complex.
11:37:15Zagorjust as I've been saying the whole time...
11:37:56langhaarrockerZagor: look at the patch I filed for key schemes and look at apps/recorder/screen.c . It is easy and straightforward.
11:39:23langhaarrockerBut you must have a look at the patched apps/screens.c as well, as there the screens are configured.
11:39:49Zagorurg, uuencode...
11:40:16langhaarrockerI always keep doing things wrong.
11:40:26langhaarrockerShall I resend it?
11:40:43Zagornah, i'll manage :-)
11:41:16langhaarrockerDoes anybod know how to make Free Agent file normal attachments? :)
11:41:35Zagornope. i use normal mail programs :-)
11:42:29Zagor"easy and straightforward"? you took a 68 line function and turned into a 314 line module...
11:43:03adi|homelanghaarrocker: don't feel bad.. Zagor is just anal retentive
11:43:23langhaarrockerAnd I wrote _comments_!
11:43:37*adi|home defends langhaarrocker's code outta spite
11:43:37Zagorcomments are good. simple code is better.
11:43:48adi|homeoh..Zagor.. are we putting cube.c into the tree?
11:43:56adi|homei can add that while im at it if you want.
11:44:02langhaarrockerSimple code doesn't necessarily mean little code.l
11:44:04Zagornah, wait a bit
11:44:10Zagorlanghaarrocker: actually, it does
11:44:23Zagorat least my definition of "simple"
11:44:31Zagor(simple code, *not* simple interfaces)
11:45:02Zagoranyway, let's not argue about that
11:45:15Zagorthere's plenty of other stuff to argue about :-)
11:45:21langhaarrockerwouldn't lead anywhere anyway
11:46:20adi|homehmm this has been bugging me about resume
11:46:33adi|homelets say resume is set for ask
11:46:48adi|homeyou play a song, shutdown, restart, say no, and shutdown again
11:47:06adi|homehaving it ask the next boot if i want to resume seems counter-intuitive to me
11:47:13adi|homei already said no didn't i?
11:47:20adi|homeshouldn't it be cleared?
11:47:27Zagoryeah, it probably should
11:47:48adi|homeshould i look at that as well?
11:51:01langhaarrockerI like the behaviour as it is
11:51:53adi|homefor resume you mean?
11:53:41adi|homejust seems illogical to me...
11:53:47adi|homei look at it from this perspective
11:54:20adi|homeif i say 'yes' i am basically saying, "yes, continue where i was, and when i reboot, save my _new_ location"
11:54:23adi|homeand when i say no "save my new location as no location to resume from"
11:54:50*adi|home is all for hearing your side btw :)
11:55:16Ennan<newbie mode> to patch i just do 'patch foobar.c foobar_diff.c' right?
11:55:36Schnueffpatch < ..
11:55:36langhaarrockertheres a new faq on this.
11:55:51Schnueffeh yes, bette
11:56:39adi|homecheck that out :)
11:56:55adi|homeEnnan: and we're not trying to be rude
11:57:01adi|homejust house breaking ya ;)
11:57:19langhaarrockerand being pround on the faq
11:57:40*adi|home puffs up his chest
11:58:01adi|homehey.. i claimed the title of 'Lead Project Asshole' ages ago
11:58:06adi|homeevery project needs one
11:58:08adi|homeand i am he :)
11:58:18Ennanadi|home that's no prob: problem is that i don't have a "foobar.patch" file, but just a bunch of ".diff"'s
11:58:37adi|homeahhh okay.. we had that the other day to.. hmmm let me see one sec :)
11:58:59langhaarrockeradj|home: you can't outzagor Zagor.
11:59:06adi|homeno no no
11:59:13adi|homehe's _Code Police_
11:59:18PsycoXulEnnan: same thing
11:59:35Ennanpsycoxull: ?
11:59:46adi|homeim 'Board bashing, stupid question stomping, miss posting, shit kicking, lollipop stealing king high muckie muck"
11:59:50adi|homethat a bit more clear?
11:59:58PsycoXulEnnan: .patch and .diff are the same thing
12:00:32EnnanPsycoXul: That's information i need... :) lemme try
12:04:05bobTHCduring the resume screen, the french translation is too long, scrool is possible or i chang the french screen for a sorter?
12:04:43adi|homeplayer or rec?
12:05:13adi|homeand its up to the french guys
12:05:28adi|homeid say make the french translation shorter
12:06:12adi|homelanghaarrocker: your the dissenting opinion.. you want to defend the continuous resume question thing i mentioned?
12:06:17adi|homei don't want to change and bug you :)
12:07:24EnnanPsycoXul: you know more bout patching? (or can i bug you with some q's?)
12:08:40PsycoXuli dunno
12:08:49langhaarrockeradj|home: I like that it remembers where it was even if I say "no, don't resume now". And when I reboot next time it's the same position if I didn't change the playlist. Otherwise with every accidental boot I might loose my current play list position.
12:11:59adi|homehmm okay...
12:12:02adi|homefair enough
12:12:13adi|homeill give it some thought for a bit... come back with some ideas
12:12:24adi|homeloadable fonts don't work on the player correct?
12:14:51langhaarrockeradj|home: when we get playlist markers and gotos and so a completely different light might be shed on this discussion.
12:16:40adi|homeanother option would be exactly that.. another option
12:16:49adi|homesay 'resume ask once
12:16:56adi|home'resume ask always
12:16:59adi|homesomething like that
12:17:11langhaarrockeryes. that's good.
12:18:55langhaarrockerno patch?
12:19:27Ennanlanghaarrocker: just won't work...should i try to compile it with an older version of the source?
12:19:46langhaarrockermaybe. I have no idea.
12:20:00Ennanis the 1.3 somewhere on the site?
12:20:00adi|homeennan what patch are you trying to put in?
12:20:31Ennanqueue function...i desperatly want that :)
12:20:56adi|homeheheh okay...
12:21:05adi|homewhat are the problems you're running into?
12:23:09ZagorEnnan: it doesn't work like the archos queue
12:26:42EnnanZagor: nope.. but it is at least something like "playlist" making :)
12:26:42Zagorwell, remotely like it. there's a reason why it's not accepted yet.
12:26:42Ennanit doesn't compile :)
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12:29:20Ennanthat was weird
12:29:30Zagorit's called a netsplit
12:29:57langhaarrockerI've made the gui for a split editor -> are net splits my fault?
12:30:11Zagorprobably :-)
12:30:46*langhaarrocker never gets things right
12:33:01adi|homethat just means you're left handed
12:33:29adi|homei would love to know just how many ppl are usign rockbox these days...
12:33:36 Nick LinusN|lunch is now known as LinusN (
12:34:11Ennanmake a list on the homepage: ppl can put name if they use rockbox..
12:34:43langhaarrockeradj|home: probably Linus knows that after all his "Player or recorder?".
12:35:16LinusNI have a large list :-)
12:35:32LinusNI am working on a statistics page
12:36:06Ennanok, i'm giving up on the patch....back to begging for impelmentation here..... :)
12:36:23LinusNEnnan: :-)
12:36:31*adi|home is away: organizing FAQ a bit
12:37:32langhaarrockerI was about to complain that on sf it still said that V1.3 was state of the art. I was late. :)
12:37:59*Ennan begs
12:38:22*langhaarrocker gives Ennan a vitual dime
12:38:40Zagori just fixed the sf info
12:39:05*LinusN ignores Ennan and chuckles silently
12:40:52Ennanlanghaarrocker: tnx, now i can buy an iPod :)
12:41:10*Ennan steals linusn's wallet while he's ignoring him..
12:42:13BagderEnnan: we will implement queue mode, soon enough
12:42:22langhaarrockerDoes the iPod have a queue?
12:42:31LinusNEnnan: we eill implement it! Just give me my wallet back!!!
12:43:09*Ennan walks to langhaarrocker and magicaly takes the wallet from begind langhaarrockers back, and gives it to linusn
12:43:19Zagorlanghaarrocker: nobody seems to know what the ipod can and cannot do
12:43:22langhaarrockerEnnan: but remove the money first!
12:43:53langhaarrockerZagor: because everybody's hacking the jukebox.
12:44:28LinusNYeah, those rockbox guys must be rich. everybody uses their firmware
12:45:33Ennanno, you don't have to pay, you can donwload a crack so you can skip the registration screen
12:45:43langhaarrockerThe size of my last patch / enhancemets was 119kB, so what's my share of the money?:)
12:46:35Ennanlooking at the foto's, this project only costs you have to pay ...20 dollar to linusn..
12:46:41bobTHCnear 0.000001 cents of buck
12:54:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:56:22*adi|home is back (gone 00:19:50)
12:56:35adi|homeokay.. so.. the FAQ may need to get broken up/reorganized soon
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12:56:45adi|homewe are at 63 questions
12:56:53Zagoradi|home: agreed
12:56:55Bagderwe should make it into sections or something
12:57:03adi|homeim starting to do that...
12:57:10adi|homeputting features togeather
12:57:23adi|homeweb based questions togeather (bugs/feature reports/mailling list)
12:57:27adi|homethat sorta stuff...
12:58:16adi|homedoes the FAQ get released with the source tars?
12:59:02adi|homeive got to give it some thought...
13:00:23langhaarrockerZagor: could you add the manual as pdf, too? :)
13:01:12Zagori actually get requests for that
13:01:42Bagderit's not *that* hard to fix
13:01:56Bagderps2pdf is there
13:02:14langhaarrockerHm. Let me think of another unbelievable thing: I want a context sensitive help on the jukebox! :)
13:03:47Zagorlanghaarrocker: old news
13:03:52adi|homedo able
13:04:05langhaarrockerok. I give up.
13:04:08adi|homebut im going to need you to come to my section of NY state and blow me first
13:04:12adi|homehows that for fair?
13:04:17Ennan"you are all talking bout looking at text on your archos, but letter.doc won't read!!"
13:04:49*adi|home hands Ennan the 'sarcastic comment of the day' award
13:05:07adi|homezagor .. that resume issue i mentioned
13:05:08*Ennan bows "i would like to thank my mother and god and all my fans"
13:05:21adi|homelanghaarrocker: says he likes the way it works now
13:05:36adi|homewould you rather a. pull rank and have me change it anyways
13:05:47adi|homeor b. add another option to either ask once, or many times
13:05:53adi|homeor c. just leave it be
13:06:57Zagoradi|home: i'm not sure. i can understand people like it the current way, simply because it gives you more resume options. but I also agree with you that it's illogical
13:07:23langhaarrockeradj|home: on my behalf: do what you think is necessary. Although I like it the way it is, I'm not that keen on this feature. Usually I leave my rockbox on resume without asking anyway.
13:07:40Zagor"The Archos with Rockbox sounds much much much better than the Ipod, the so called eq settings on the Ipod are useless"
13:08:14adi|homelanghaarrocker: i lean on the side of flushing the resume setting.. but im all for offering ppl as many realistic options as possible
13:08:20adi|home2 s's.. damnit
13:10:54Zagor"Nor can I create a directory called ".rockbox.dir" because directories with a "." are reserved for the system." gaaah, silly macs!
13:11:33LinusNWe might need to rethink the .rockbox name...
13:12:08adi|homehell no
13:12:19Bagderthe FAQ turned into pdf with a2ps and ps2pdf becomes 8 pages
13:12:29adi|homewe shouldn't have to change the way we do things because someone buys a hermetically sealed computer that acts like handcuffs
13:12:37Zagorcan anyone compile a win32 convbdf.exe ?
13:12:47LinusNnever tried
13:12:55BagderZagor: yes, we should offer one for download on the fonts page
13:12:58ZagorBagder: can you set that up in the Makefile?
13:13:11BagderI can
13:13:23LinusNadd the usual Rockbox trojan to it as well
13:14:45Bagderbut having the FAQ as pdf is really no real point
13:15:11Zagorah, right. i read that as "the manual"
13:16:01Bagderthe manual should be written using some other format, and then generated into html or pdf or whatever
13:16:08adi|homefear the manula
13:16:09*langhaarrocker going lunch
13:16:15*adi|home giggles at the inside joke
13:18:42adi|homeif i change/add a keyword to the english.lang i don't screw anything up right?
13:18:58Bagderadd new ones last, don't remove any just blank them
13:19:21adi|homeopps... need to fix that then.. i changed a few in my last english commit...
13:23:51adi|homeokay.. just to confirm...
13:24:04adi|homelabels that are no longer being used need to be left in the language file?
13:24:08adi|homeand just nulled out?
13:24:51Bagderotherwise it'll break the binary languages
13:25:47Bagderyeah, just "" the ones not used anymore
13:26:30Bagderone day, when they get too many, we remove them all and bump the binary language version number
13:28:15 Join TotMacher [0] (
13:30:49adi|homefair enough
13:31:29adi|homeman tetris needs cleaning up
13:32:56 Quit calpef[away] (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:33:11LinusNit needs a highscore table too
13:34:03adi|homeim working ont he translation right now
13:36:48adi|homedamn it we have snake translations and no snake game..
13:36:49*adi|home sighs
13:39:33Zagoryellow build
13:42:32*Bagder gives the "I caused a yellow build" hat to Adi
13:55:05LinusNBagder: there is a convbfd.exe in my home dir on labb
13:56:02adi|homethe lang really needs cleaning up...
13:56:11LinusNnag, nag
13:56:16adi|homewe have stuff repeated that could easily be generaly global values
13:56:23adi|homedamn right.. tis what i is good at
13:56:54BagderZagor: any real reason why the www/fonts stuff isn't in cvs?
13:59:27Bagderconvbdf.exe is now available on the fonts page
13:59:38ZagorBagder: no reason
14:02:33Bagderif anyone has any good pointers to font tools for BDF, we should add those there too
14:02:47LinusNpfaedit works
14:03:06Bagderany url?
14:03:16LinusNi think it's
14:07:38BagderI added a "Tools for BDF font Creation" there too
14:08:04LinusNi just changed language, and instead of "new language" i got "Rows 0 - Level 0"
14:08:45adi|homehold on with that.. im working on it...
14:09:00adi|homeim fixing the tetris issue with translation.
14:10:18adi|homeyou got that because i screwed up the english file before.. it should be okay now.. try and update
14:12:33Bagderhey guys
14:12:53Bagderthose new .lng files will crash 1.4 running software
14:13:06adi|homedamnit.. i just said i fixed it
14:13:19Bagderyou can't
14:13:22*adi|home is annoyed at himself
14:13:27adi|homewhat do you mean i can't?
14:13:35Bagderits really my fault
14:13:46*adi|home gets confuzled
14:14:18Bagderthe language loader just loads the strings and stores the new pointers at index
14:14:27Bagderwithout checking if index is bigger than the array is
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14:21:32LinusNwell done Bagder
14:21:59Zagorso we need to boost the version
14:22:08Zagorso people don't load bad files
14:23:39Bagderare all the .lng files in the release archive?
14:23:52Zagorexcept hebrew
14:24:13Bagderif we change version, we can at least cut out all the not used anymore strings
14:25:30langhaarrockerVerison boost: does that mean 1.41?
14:25:39Bagderno, just version boost in the language files
14:25:52Bagderit means version 1 => version 2
14:27:19langhaarrockerWhat? Rockbox V2.0?
14:27:30Bagderno, just of the language files
14:27:34LinusNno, language format version 2
14:27:43langhaarrockerNow I get it.
14:32:40mbrvolunteered someone for the 12 hour clock?
14:33:02adi|homebut im hoping to take it in the next day or so if that counts
14:33:09mbrnow someone does :)
14:33:16mbrI'll do it
14:33:25Bagderyou can even simulate it now
14:33:30langhaarrockerI'm a bit worried that nobody will consicer my key scheme proposal because the patch I made to demonstrate it consists of 119kb source.
14:34:07mbrmay I commit it, when it is done?
14:34:14Bagdermbr: sure
14:34:18Zagorlanghaarrocker: i will look, but not right now
14:35:16langhaarrockerZagor: fine
14:36:42LinusNadi|home: we don't close bug reports until the next release
14:41:33adi|homei know
14:41:36adi|homejust fixed it :)
14:41:42adi|homewas tired not thinking :)
14:41:57adi|homeduplicates are cool to close though yes?
14:42:13LinusNeven delete them
14:42:26adi|homeokay.. off to bed for a nap
14:42:42Bagdernight adi
14:52:03Bagdermbr: you're fast! ;-)
14:54:06mbrnot really. done somethin before I asked :)
14:54:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:55:25Zagori think "clock" can be cut the strings. then the players can show them too
14:55:31Zagorcut from
14:55:44Bagderthey don't have a clock
14:55:52Zagorah, right :-)
14:56:13*Zagor crawls back under his rock
14:57:31 Part Bagder
15:00:29 Join hotrana [0] (
15:00:47 Nick hotrana is now known as calpefrosch (
15:01:14LinusNcalpefrosch is under cover
15:01:45langhaarrockerbetter under conver than under Zagor's rock
15:13:15calpefroschdo you know some news about the remote input circuit.
15:18:35calpefroschyes, about the resistor in my recorder-version. I'm a little bit angry, that archos waste 3mA current for nothing...
15:19:09calpefroschnot really angry ;-)
15:19:15LinusNi haven't followed the discussion
15:19:27calpefroschoh, okey. I can tell you if you are interested
15:19:56LinusNis it a pullup?
15:20:24calpefroschyes, in my recorder is a 1kOhm pullup, in andreas is none...
15:20:57langhaarrockerpullups on cmos inputs don't wast much current
15:21:33calpefroschthey waste if you connect a normal headphone. Then this is pulled to gnd, so we have about 3mA
15:22:03langhaarrockerok, you're right. I'll shut up.
15:23:04LinusNdoes anybody else have problems reaching the F1 menu from WPS?
15:23:20calpefroschsorry, I don't wanted to flout you
15:23:28Schnueffyes, since my unit is 8km away
15:23:36LinusNSchnueff: smartass :-)
15:23:56LinusNit just hangs
15:36:47LinusNno BUTTON_REL when i press F1
15:37:09Zagorworks for me
15:37:18LinusNbetter make clean then
15:39:17langhaarrockerWhen you guys develop at serveral frontiers simultainiously (eg. filewriting and recording) - Do you use separate source trees for that?
15:39:32 Quit Ennan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:39:33LinusNi have two
15:40:04langhaarrockerMaybe I should go that way, too.
15:40:26LinusNmake clean solved it :-)
15:40:45ZagorLinusN: gooddie
15:41:12langhaarrockerAssume you want to test how two things integrate with each other do you make a 3rd tree for that?
15:42:07LinusNwe send patches to each other
15:42:22LinusNand yes, then i sometimes make a third tree
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15:44:48langhaarrockerDon't you get a hell of collisions?
15:46:49LinusNwhy would i?
15:47:02LinusNi do cvs update once in a while
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15:48:11langhaarrockerAssume you have some *menu file with new entreis from entries from different development branches.
15:49:01Zagorcollissions only occur if you change the same line, not just the same file
15:50:01langhaarrockerI know. But that can happen easily.
15:50:21Zagorit doesn't happen very often, actually
15:50:43Zagorthis is where discipline enters the picture...
15:55:04langhaarrockerI'm not talking about reformatting stuff but about real things. Imagine you develop two games in two different (private) branches you keep up to date with cvs regularily. Now you find that both games share some common features. You can't just use cvs to solve this problem because neither branch is ready for commit.
15:55:48Zagorwhat files would collide?
15:56:51langhaarrockere.g. the games_menu.c where new entries are added at the same position. (Which is an easy example that makes nearly no effort to clean out manually)
15:58:15LinusNlanghaarrocker: i don't get it
15:58:19Zagorcommunication is very important
15:58:29LinusNwhy do you change a menu entry when you add a game?
15:58:48Zagorall changes are discussed, so everyone knows what will change. and everyone focus on their part, not mucking about in other things
15:59:11LinusNor do you merge the two games into one tree qhen you build?
15:59:20Zagorcollisions are no big problem in real life
16:01:24langhaarrockerLinusN: If both games share functionality I have to.
16:01:24langhaarrockerZagor: I'm not so much talking about sharing code with other developers but developing serveral ideas myself. I wonder if it is a good technique to keep each idea in its own branch. That might avoid sending 119kb for a proof of concept demo.
16:03:19Zagorkeeping ideas/separated is a good idea IMHO, yes
16:03:28Zagorideas/code separated
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16:04:01Zagorsmall patches are preferred by most people, even just for discussion
16:04:55langhaarrockerZagor: if you do that don't you run into the problem that you want to reuse code from idea A in idea B? Would you duplicate that code?
16:05:47Zagorthat's hard to say, in general terms
16:05:53LinusNi would patch tree #2 with tree #2, but only the code that is shared
16:06:00LinusNtree #2 with tree #1
16:06:19Zagorwho wants to jump on the ogg request? :-)
16:06:23LinusNso silly
16:06:29langhaarrockerNanny Ogg?
16:06:31LinusNsend adi|home on him
16:07:09 Part calpefrosch
16:12:23langhaarrockerI can't jump at other peoples requests. I'm too busy jumping at my own.
16:14:38LinusNwoo, here's a guy with excellent eyesight:
16:14:42LinusNI'd really like to read some
16:14:42LinusNebooks on my archos with the text viewer, but don't want to scroll
16:14:42LinusNleft and right. Would like to just page down.
16:15:06LinusNhe wants to format the text files with 18 chars/line
16:15:16langhaarrockerCould be my own reques, too
16:16:56langhaarrockerBut I'd have included softscrolling with up/down keys as accelerating buttons and pause as pause.
16:17:18Zagorhow about some word wrap first?
16:17:45langhaarrockerI could open another source tree on that...
16:21:06langhaarrockerBut there's a reason why I hesitate is: If we go key schemes somewhen I would have to rewrite so much code I could do correctly right now. But that would be a waste if the key scheme concept I proposed goes to the dustbin.
16:26:28LinusNwell, time to go home
16:26:32LinusNcu guys
16:26:44Schnueffcu LinusN
16:26:58Zagorlanghaarrocker: yes, i see what you mean
16:27:01 Part LinusN
16:27:51Zagorlanghaarrocker: do you feel you have answered the questions we had before? on things like UI, feedback etc. can you recreate the current Rockbox UI with your key scheme?
16:28:16langhaarrockerI believe yes.
16:28:37langhaarrockerBut there are a lot of details which still must be discussed.
16:29:19langhaarrockerStarting with the build process, wether we want to assign special key schemes to special modules like the browser...
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17:23:02Zagori'm off
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17:23:12Schnueffgood idea
17:23:16*Schnueff .. away
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18:49:53Aghnarhello everyone
18:50:21Aghnari wanted to know if it possible to dump the firmware of the archos
18:50:56Aghnarcause i have the (official) 1.28 version which doesn't exist anywhere
18:51:13Aghnarthe latest from archos being the 1.27d
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19:00:46Aghnaris any one here ?
19:07:13 Quit calpefrosch ()
19:07:21xamobviously not
19:07:40xamAghnar I don't know whether you can dump it, be i guess so
19:08:47Aghnaryes i think it is impossible to dump it via USB :(
19:09:46AghnarXam > do you know where to find the 1.28 firmware ?
19:10:19Aghnarbecause if i have any problem with rockbox i would like to re install my 1.28 :)
19:10:34xamAghnar sorry, no :( I think you can't dump via USB, but if you have filesystem write support ...
19:10:45xamAghnar ???????
19:11:08Aghnaryes ?
19:11:09xamAghnar just delete the ajbrec.ajz file on the harddisk
19:12:20xamAghnar I don't think you can screw up your archos with rockbox. At least it is VERY unlikely. And if you don't want rockbox anymore, just delete the ajbrec.ajz file and you get your original (1.28) firmware
19:12:57AghnarSo there is an internal firmware somewhere in ROM ??
19:13:18xamAghnar you have the Recorder, do you?
19:13:25Aghnarthe rockbox firmware doesn't erase the archos one ?
19:13:26xamAghnar yes.
19:13:31xamAgnhar no
19:13:47Aghnaryes i have it ;)
19:14:02xamAghnar there is a firmware in rom, and firmware "updates" like rockbox are just on the harddisk
19:14:15Aghnarand it rulez da world (recorder 20 Go !!)
19:14:33xamAghnar ;) I have the same, but with a 1.26 firmware
19:14:53Aghnarok ok thx i thought it was a flash EEPROM firmware
19:15:15xamAghnar so if you have problems with the rockbox firmware (or an update of the archos firmware), just delete the file on the archos harddisk
19:15:24xamAghnar nope, its not EEPROM :)
19:15:33Aghnaryou don't have rockbox ?
19:16:33xamAgnhar I just installed 1.4. It's running fine! Unfortunately no recording yet (and no creating/saving of playlists), because writing on the filesystem is not supported yet
19:17:21xamAgnar BTW, USB is independend on the (rockbox) firmware AFAIK, so you can always access the harddrive via USB ;)
19:18:00xamAgnhar I just use rockbox, because archos own firmware sucks alot ...
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19:34:31calpefroschhi !
19:34:55radhardAlready read new mails? ;)
19:35:11calpefroschno... wait
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19:36:05calpefroschbut I managed to control the archos from my PC :-)
19:36:35radhardnew ideas every day..... congrats! How did you do it?
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19:38:36calpefroschfirst the 10k resistor to gnd at the basis of the ähh ( Transistor, please translate I forgot ) .. and a Programm to send the chars
19:39:40radhardI'm thinking about sending information back. Do you know, how fast the system timer ticks are? transistor=transistor. Wondered if you did it with hyperterm ;)
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19:42:23calpefroschhehe, no. - maybe Hyperterm is really not the right program. I don't know more details about the soft/hardware
19:43:42radhardIt's a very simple protocol, isn't it?
19:45:27radhardI'll rebuild and document my bidirectional circuit this evening. It's a whole mess of parts and airwire...
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19:51:09calpefroschsorry, I had to write some lines...
19:52:09calpefroschjes, it's very simple.
19:52:23radhardbtw, if anybody is interested in building hardware and needs a CR2032, some SMD-buttons (similar to those in the Archos) or small THT-Buttons, I have a few spares available.
19:54:41radhardDo you send two bytes directly after each other?
19:54:58calpefroschno, only one.
19:55:37radhardHmm, the source looks like it's waiting for at least two characters.
19:56:55calpefroschI don't know, because the program was just an example that I changed for testing
19:57:16calpefroschso I could by that it sent my char and one other, e.g. CR/LF
19:57:50radhardIf you send just one character, it should have worked with hyperterm. You're talking in miracles.. ;)
19:58:34calpefroschyou are right. I'm a little bit stressed, just excuse by "miracles" ;-)
19:58:48radhardI should not try to understand anybody else's source code after 2:00am :)
19:59:03calpefroschbetter not ;-)
19:59:42calpefroschso, my ToDo-List says:
19:59:45radhardI'll have a look. mom.
20:00:01calpefrosch1. create a programmer for PIC16F84A
20:00:33calpefrosch2. build the circuit for PIC remote testing
20:00:45calpefrosch( maybe 1+2 can be the same PCB ?? )
20:01:20radhardAlready considered AVR? You only need a cable for in-circuit-programming, np programmer necessary. But i think we talked about that, didn't we?
20:01:23calpefrosch3. build the interface for IR or sony changer control ( I don't know which will be the first )
20:01:52calpefroschyes, I have some code for this sony thing - I could use it without mods... I hope
20:02:08calpefroschbut in the future we can talk about AVR
20:02:16radhardDude, a lot of things to do for this evening ;)
20:02:54calpefroschman - I have an RL, too. This is my ToDo for this month
20:02:59 Quit TotMacher ()
20:03:25calpefroschI'm really slow and I have a girlfriend who wants to be Prio1
20:03:37radhardI also have a spare AVR here, if you need one. with socket. Yeah, RL threatens me almost every day ;)
20:04:05calpefroschso I'll need more time to build these thing. uhh, just talking silly stuff
20:04:25*calpefrosch slaps his mouth for talking silly stuff
20:05:00calpefroschand now to something completely different
20:05:00radhardJust kidding. And I also like my job.... Yeah, girls always want to have top priority!
20:05:21radhardLooked funny ;)
20:05:29calpefroschwhat do you do in your job ?
20:05:52radhardImplementing protocols, as you might guess. No joke.
20:06:15radhardAnd test and validation software, wich is much more fun!
20:08:34calpefroschahh, that's good. And you like testing software ?
20:08:42radhardThe reactions of the hardware and software guys can be really funny, if I set up a test bench and the whole this blows up when activating "parallel mode" ;)
20:09:20calpefroschhaha, there are many expensive programs on the market , like Testdirektor. Is it such a tool ?
20:09:42calpefroschI'm one of these "software guys".
20:10:02radhardThat's a multitasking parallel test of different functions at once. We use self written programs and National Instruments stuff.
20:10:23radhardHehe... So you know what I'm talking about... ;)
20:10:45calpefroschsure, but know I'm only doing database-programming
20:11:41radhard-k? Is Testdirektor a windoze software test tool?
20:12:49calpefroschknow -k = now ;-) yes, it is for m$ software
20:14:19calpefroschif you get some connectors for the archos (3.5mm, 4pol. ) can you sell me 2-3 pcs ?
20:14:22radhardTo be honest, I'm also such a software guy, but luckily nobody tests my software. That's a great advantage... We produce electronic components, so it's embedded software I'm testing most of the time. Much like rockbox, but that one has enough testers, I think!
20:15:02radhardIf i find them somewhere, certainly! If you find them first, please keep me informed.
20:15:06calpefroschyes, it's a really cool project. Do you need some more developers ?
20:15:20radhardIn our company?
20:15:59calpefroschI cut my off from cable for my digital camera...
20:17:12radhardIf you only had asked me a year ago... No, I'm sorry. Not at the moment. They are releasing employees in the United States and therefor cant hire anybody here.
20:17:54radhardooops. Wait a minut. I'll just have a look at my digicam cable ;)
20:18:26calpefroschlike in my company, they want to fire about 50 people in germany. But I hope I can stay...
20:19:52calpefroschI'm usinf KSirc on linux. Do you see some difference to yday ?
20:20:21*calpefrosch cuts the knot out of his fingers
20:20:21radhardI wish you good luck on this. Do you only write windows-software at your company? Pardon?
20:21:32calpefroschno, we are developing java,pl/sql and vb. if you are interested, look at
20:22:48radhardInteresting. So you already heared about .Net and object orriented database access?
20:23:26calpefroschdo you mean oo -access or database objects ?
20:23:54radhardWhat do you think about this? We're going to switch to .NET next year. Data Provider / SQL.
20:24:51radhardoo-access via data provider to an sql database.
20:24:52calpefroschI think we will switch to .NET for new projects. in the moment I have no opinion to this.
20:25:11calpefroschI never did something with .net
20:25:35calpefroschsql server ... we are only using oracle
20:25:41radhardYou maybe should have visited BASTA! in Frankfurt. This has been very interesting.
20:26:19calpefroschI don't know BASTA! what is it ?
20:26:47radhardBASTA! is a developer conference. I think their website is or com
20:27:11calpefroschmaybe we should switch to a privat channel, but I have to go now. Let's talk tomorrow..
20:27:37radhardnp. Have a nice evening!
20:27:58calpefroschsame to you. and good luck with your bi-dir
20:28:28radhardThanks! I'll try to document the circuit first ;)
20:28:34calpefroschok, bye
20:28:38calpefroschall: bye
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21:11:36Mine78Good evening all !
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23:34:03lc_there is a way to choose the language from the menu ?
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23:34:34PsycoXulno, choose the language file from the browser
23:35:00PsycoXulput it in the .rockbox dir for it to be remembered
23:35:37lc_the browser does not display .rockbox
23:35:56PsycoXulit does if you choose "All" for the file filter
23:36:29lc_ok. thanks :)
23:39:03lc_another question: is there any particular (technical) reasons for not having games on jukebox 6000 ?
23:39:21PsycoXulthe LCD's only char-cell based
23:39:28lc_don't answer . blame me it's in the faq
23:39:32PsycoXulrecorders have a bitmap screen, so more people are interested in doing stuff with that
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