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#rockbox log for 2002-10-21

00:00:11 Join Jet8810 [0] (
00:04:31Zagorthe write code is slowly taking shape
00:05:15TotMacherwhats the latest feature ?
00:05:28Zagorof the write code?
00:05:35TotMacherof rockbox
00:06:00TotMacherthe gaps between songs (if you press forward) are too long
00:06:15TotMacherit takes 2-3 seconds
00:06:15Zagoruh, the disk needs to spin. not much you can do.
00:06:17TotMacherto load
00:06:32TotMacheryou can buffer the first part of the next SONG !
00:06:39TotMacherfor the disk spinup time
00:06:40Zagoryup, you could
00:06:47TotMacherwill take away buffer
00:07:15TotMacherhow much kb are 5 seconds ?
00:07:25Zagor128kbit is 16KB/sec
00:07:31TotMacherahh ok
00:07:37TotMacherwould take away
00:07:41TotMacherjust 50 kb
00:07:52TotMacherfor this feature
00:08:02TotMacherok, will decrease battery life
00:08:07TotMacherthat would be nive
00:08:08Zagorwe need to code it too :-)
00:08:24TotMacherhehe, yes i know you answer
00:08:27TotMacher"begin to code"
00:08:51Zagori will not reject this feature if someone writes it. but it's not on the top of my todo list.
00:09:03TotMacherwhats on top ?
00:09:12Zagorfile writing
00:09:19TotMacherahh ok
00:09:22TotMacherfor recording ?
00:09:31TotMacherthat would be nice
00:10:27Zagoryeah, it will
00:35:07 Quit TotMacher ()
00:51:33Zagorfire in the hole
00:58:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:04:29 Quit Zagor ("Client Exiting")
02:45:44 Quit Jet8810 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:58:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:18:30 Join Jet8810 [0] (
03:19:47 Quit Jet8810 (Client Quit)
04:56:49 Quit _seb_ ()
04:58:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:11:36 Quit Synthe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
05:11:37 Join Synthe` [0] (
05:26:53 Join elinenbe|what [0] (
05:27:12 Nick elinenbe|what is now known as elinenbe|zzzz (
06:58:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:35:20 Join Bagder [241] (
08:58:14***No seen item changed, no save performed.
09:31:23 Join langhaarrocker [0] (
09:31:23 Quit langhaarrocker (Client Quit)
09:32:01 Join langhaarrocker [0] (
09:33:52langhaarrockerWhat ist the variable wps_time_countup good for? It is initialized once and then never used as l-value again. It seems to be obsolete.
09:34:07langhaarrocker(definition in wps.h)
09:35:15Bagderno idea really
09:55:04 Join mem [0] (
09:55:10memhi all!
09:55:37Bagderhi mem
09:56:01langhaarrockerHi mem sounds like an old dos thingie.
09:56:47Schnueff'lo mem
10:02:11memlanghaarrocker: "old dos thingie"?
10:02:26memlanghaarrocker: now I got it.... :-)
10:02:46memlanghaarrocker: I'm living in config.sys :-)
10:03:34PsycoXuli prefer free
10:03:35*mem thinks it's cool that you getting write to disk working
10:04:32langhaarrockerI'm craving for disk writing
10:04:55langhaarrockerBut I have too many little side projects open. I should close some.
10:05:11PsycoXuli think a few killer feature's will land shortly after file writing
10:05:29*langhaarrocker jumping up and down in joy
10:05:56PsycoXulthere's not much for fiberglass violin bows on ebay
10:06:42langhaarrockerIs it at least flourescent?
10:07:02 Join mbr [0] (
10:08:13mbrlanghaarrocker: :)
10:17:47langhaarrockerHas anybody seen how the output of the recorder looks like on an oscilloscope?
10:17:48 Quit Bagder (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
10:28:59 Quit dfg ("Client Exiting")
10:35:34 Nick mem is now known as mem_away (
10:39:03 Join pyvasene [0] (
10:55:08 Join TotMacher [0] (
10:58:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:04:27 Nick mem_away is now known as mem (
11:13:06 Join Zagor_ [242] (
11:13:32langhaarrockerHi code police!
11:14:30Zagor_hi :)
11:14:35langhaarrockerI've got a new special case for you: wps_time_countup. It is defined in wps.h, initialized once and never used as l-value agin. Seems to be obsolete to me.
11:16:10Zagor_sounds like it, yeah. let me have a look.
11:16:41 Nick Zagor_ is now known as Zagor (
11:17:02Zagoranyone tried the write code yet? ;)
11:17:41langhaarrockerI haven't backuped my valueable data yet
11:26:05 Nick mem is now known as mem_lunch (
11:57:42 Join kargatron [0] (
11:57:42 Quit langhaarrocker (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
12:08:22kargatronfile/folder move vs delete - should I separate into two distinct requests? Seems like they're very different functionality (tho move can be copy+delete, i know)
12:14:10Zagorkargatron: they are basically, the same. we won't implement one without the other
12:14:57kargatronseems delete could come way before move, what i was thinking, since the latter requires an interface more thant he former
12:15:30Zagoryaah, but both are first and foremost limited by the fat driver availability
12:16:54kargatronwell, my vote is, once writing available, make functions not needing an interface available while waiting for future interface dev
12:17:01kargatronlike bookmarking, deleting
12:18:04Zagorsure, that's ok with me
12:37:57 Nick mem_lunch is now known as mem (
12:58:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:19:54 Join langhaarrocker [0] (
13:20:58kargatronZagor, should queue playlist be in same request as queue track?
13:21:33Zagorno, they are different
13:21:50kargatronthought so
13:22:09langhaarrockerqueue track interrupts the current song?
13:22:24kargatronwouldn't think so, upon first implentation
13:22:54kargatronwanna interrupt current song, hit next,right? :)
13:23:44kargatronhow does archos firm do it? i never used it...
13:23:46langhaarrockerJust because I don't know what the difference is between queue track and queue list with 1 track. Too lazy to read the frs
13:23:58kargatronno practical diff there, of course
13:25:31kargatronZagor, probably not, but can sf sorting be customized to ignore case? silly to sort on summary and have it case-sensitive
13:26:34Zagorthere are no configs other than what you see in the form
13:27:08kargatronah, ok
13:27:22kargatroncan't see what's on admin page, but with that, i'll stop asking. :)
13:31:36 Join Bagder [241] (
13:31:43Zagoryo, baggie!
13:32:16Bagderhey ho
13:32:42ZagorBagder: do you know how I can cvs over ssh on a nonstandard port?
13:33:00Zagor(I'm standing in for Linus)
13:33:34Schnueffif sshd runs on a different port
13:34:00Bagderisn't it possible to set the port number somehow in the CVSROOT
13:34:25Schnueffi think CVS_RSH can have options in it, too
13:34:40SchnueffCVS_RSH="ssh -p 123"
13:34:45Bagderah, right
13:35:12Zagorah, goodie
13:36:22Zagorno it can't: Cannot exec ssh -p 9995: No such file or directory
13:36:29Zagori'll just make a little script
13:38:09Schnueffof course u could also set Port option for the specific host in ~/.ssh/config
13:39:02Zagorright. but in this case it's localhost (port formwarding) so I'm ssh:ing to lots ports on this host :-)
13:39:11Zagorit works now
13:39:18 Quit kargatron ("Suckers!")
14:15:17mbrHas anyone tested my multiline scroll patch?
14:15:31Bagdernot me
14:15:37langhaarrockernot yet
14:15:54mbrShall I check it in, so someone tests it? :)
14:16:36BagderI think so
14:16:42langhaarrockerZagor: That way we'll never get code quality down.
14:18:17mbrJust kidding.
14:18:36mbrI also think that someone with a player should test it.
14:19:11mbrSo far I only tested it on recorder and the simulators ..
14:51:17Zagorooops, fat_closewrite() loops forever :-)
14:54:21BagderI removed the last remaining logs today so that the playerold gap vanished from the daily build table
14:55:35langhaarrockermbr: If you feel bored you could extend your multiline scrolling to vertical scrolling of the whole wps!
14:55:42langhaarrocker-> more lines
14:56:17ZagorBagder: i noticed
14:57:15mbrlanghaarrocker: cool feature. Would improve the readability :)
14:58:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:58:40mbrBut I think displaying different information in one line in wps could make sense.
14:59:11mbrfor example: 5 Sec Artist, 5 sec album, 5 sec title or so
14:59:19Schnueffgood idea
14:59:24mbrsaves also lines ..
14:59:31langhaarrockerWe could have a snake game with the snake consisting of wps strings.
15:02:06Zagormbr: how do you know which line is which? i.e what do I put as argument to lcd_stop_scroll_line() ?
15:02:55mbrThis is the same line you specify at lcd_puts_scroll()
15:03:14Zagormbr: the Y position?
15:04:43mbrI don't know if we need that *_line() functions at all.
15:04:53mbradded them to be complete :)
15:05:24Zagori don't think we need them, but let's keep them a while
15:05:37Zagoryou are clear to commit
15:06:05*Bagder buckles up
15:06:27*adi|home preps the air bag
15:06:47Zagormbr: your patch adds support for multiple %s rows in wps files, doesn't it?
15:07:19Zagorgood. don't forget to update docs/CUSTOM_WPS_FORMAT
15:07:20mbrOK I should change the docs also.
15:07:31mbrI'm too slow :)
15:08:10mbrZagor: Do you think 4 lines are enough?
15:08:17mbrOn recorder
15:08:34Bagderwhat's the main argument against support 8?
15:09:02Schnueffepileptics might collapse
15:09:14Zagori think we should have 8 unless there's a technical reason against it
15:09:22Zagormaybe even 10
15:09:30BagderI think so too
15:09:37Zagor10 is max wps lines
15:09:49mbrOK. So far I had no problems with more lines. I'll change it to 10
15:10:03Zagordo so. if we get problems we'll adapt.
15:10:33langhaarrockerNow - why do we need that %s at all? Let's have them always scroll!
15:10:54Zagorgood point
15:11:03Zagormaybe %s for *not* scroll
15:11:14Bagdernow, we want %[speed]s to set different speeds!
15:11:28Schnueffand %-[speed]s for reversed direction
15:11:46langhaarrockerAnd an autospeed that depends on the string length.
15:15:06mbrBagder: Do you think text is readable when scrolling with different speeds?
15:15:18Bagderno idea, never tried it
15:15:45Bagderanyone has any opinion on the bidi scroll approach?
15:15:46elinenbe|zzzzI like the different speed idea
15:16:07mbrCan someone close the multiline scroll feature request?
15:16:14BagderI'll do that
15:16:21elinenbe|zzzzI think it should scroll one line, then scroll the second, then the third, and so on, then the first again...
15:16:36elinenbe|zzzzwith everything on the screen scrolling at once, it can get CRAZY!
15:16:39 Nick elinenbe|zzzz is now known as elinenbe (
15:18:32adi|homehell no..
15:18:41Zagorelinenbe: that would be very slow if you have many long lines
15:18:45adi|homeif the user is dumb enough to make everything scroll.. thats their own prob
15:19:38 Join kargatron [0] (
15:19:39langhaarrockerI want many things to be the users prob. (key binding)
16:10:51BagderI like the general idea behind the ".rockbox browsing patch"
16:12:31Zagori'm not too sure about that. we'll be having a bunch of config files, should all of them have their own menu too?
16:12:58kargatronbtw, any problem storing cfg/mp2/fnt/lng in subdirs of .rockbox?
16:13:20kargatrons/mp2/wps/ (oops)
16:14:09Zagoryou can store them anywhere, but only those directly in .rockbox will be auto-loaded at next boot
16:14:14BagderZagor: no, they shouldn't, but this adds an easy way to browse .rockbox that we don't have today
16:16:06ZagorBagder: i don't see the advantage
16:16:29elinenbeZagor: I think you are not thinking clearly.
16:16:30Schnueffits saves many steps through the dirs
16:16:36 Quit mecraw (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:16:37elinenbewith that patch it save many steps
16:16:45elinenbeyou do not have to worry about hidden dirs, etc.
16:17:47Schnueffor worry which config files are persistent, because u can only choose persistent ones
16:18:12elinenbeso true!
16:18:16elinenbesoooo very true!
16:18:33elinenbeand you dont have to worry about eating dinner, that will be all taken care of.
16:18:57Zagorright. so what do we want? the patch adds a "browse WPS" menu item, a "browse language" item, a "browse cfg" item... what's the point? If we just want to enter .rockbox, why not rather add a simple shortcut item that takes us there?
16:19:28elinenbethose files are "settings" and should be found in the menu
16:19:44Schnueffits more clear to the user what he can configure, imo
16:19:57Zagorthat defeats the purpose of these files
16:20:15elinenbeI think they should be called "While Playing Screen" "Language" and "Configure" though
16:20:27elinenbeit most definitly does not.
16:20:47elinenbeit give you a new interface into the options
16:21:09elinenbeone that will be easier to understand for the average user.
16:21:13Zagorand ignores all files located everywhere else
16:21:57Zagorso then you want a new menu item for each new file we support?
16:22:14Bagderpossibly, yes ;-)
16:22:17Zagorbasically duplicating the file browser functionality in the menu
16:22:20Schnueffin the last weeks, some file types converged
16:22:22elinenbeno... for "setting" type files though, yes.
16:22:24Schnuefflike .eq -> .cfg
16:22:27Bagderbut I can't see many more files types coming now ;-)
16:22:35Schnueffi guess one should pay attention not too have many files types
16:22:43elinenbe.txt .nfo etc, file types would NOT be in the menu
16:23:13Zagori predict this will make users *more* confused, not less
16:23:17elinenbebut if we created a file called play modes, then that could be in the settings menu
16:23:29elinenbeI predict you that you will be wrong :)
16:23:47Schnueffi dont know
16:23:50Zagorso how do you plan to explain that there are three types of .cfg settings?
16:24:23Zagor1. sound menu
16:24:36Zagor2. .cfg file in .rockbox (also persistent)
16:24:45Zagor3. .cfg file outside .rockbox (not persisten)
16:24:58Zagor4. Sound settings profiles in another menu (persisten)
16:25:02Bagderthey're not different types
16:25:04Schnueffi think 3. should be get ruled out
16:25:10elinenbejust like that (what you just typed on the last 4 lines)
16:25:12ZagorSchnueff: WHAT?
16:25:23elinenbeSchnueff, that is a BAD idea
16:25:32elinenbeon the train, I have a train setting
16:25:40elinenbethat I will load only when I am on the train
16:25:43elinenbewhen I restart
16:25:49Schnueffi think its unintuitive that config settings are persistent or not depending on their location
16:25:50elinenbeI want it back in normal mode.
16:26:07ZagorSchnueff: that's why we have a manual
16:26:09elinenbeeverything in .rockbox is persistent.
16:26:30Zagori will not write code for idiots. the average user is pretty smart.
16:26:50elinenbeand that is the only place...
16:27:11elinenbeI'm an idiot
16:27:43BagderZagor, you can't say that people haven't had problems using .rockbox
16:28:01Zagorproblems making it, yes. not grasping the concept
16:28:17Bagderunderstanding that they have to disable the dir filter
16:28:30Bagderwhich they want enabled otherwise
16:29:48elinenbeI say we put this to a vote.
16:30:07elinenbeyou get as many votes as the number of characters in your nick
16:30:12 Nick elinenbe is now known as elinenbeelinenbe (
16:31:13Zagorok, you're right. it's a good idea.
16:31:29Zagorbut that patch needs some work
16:33:37 Nick elinenbeelinenbe is now known as elinenbe (
16:34:24langhaarrockerThis all can become nearly obsolete as soon as we have bindable keys and configurable menues. You just define a menu entry / key combo to jump to the .rockbox dir. voila
16:34:28kargatrondamn, can't believe that worked!
16:34:33 Join edx [0] (
16:35:16Zagorlanghaarrocker: that's not the same thing. this patch only displays one file type in each menu
16:35:26Zagorkargatron: what worked?
16:35:30Zagorhi edx
16:35:49kargatronsorry, elinenbe's ploy
16:36:12kargatron<elinenbe> you get as many votes as the number of characters in your nick
16:36:12kargatron*** elinenbe is now known as elinenbeelinenbe
16:36:12kargatron<Zagor> ok, you're right. it's a good idea.
16:36:17elinenbeI would hardly call that a ploy
16:36:31Schnueffand the number of file types can be quite small, i guess, if all applications handle their configurations themselves
16:37:19Schnueffe.g. if there's a 'calendar' application it would have its configurations separate
16:40:56langhaarrockerIs someone working on a calendar already?
16:40:57 Quit mecraw12 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:41:02Schnuefflanghaarrocker: dunno
16:41:04 Join lksdjf [0] (~mecraw@dnvr-dsl-gw34-poola245.DNVR.USWEST.NET)
16:41:08BagderI don't think so
16:41:55langhaarrockerCan the rtc make the jukebox power on?
16:42:50langhaarrockerprobably LinusN would be the guy to answer this question.
16:43:05Bagdercurrently, we've not come up with a way to make that work
16:43:20Bagderit can't poweron, but we could possibly awake the CPU from standby
16:44:41langhaarrockerthat probably would still drain the batteries. :(
16:44:50Zagorbut only VERY little
16:44:58Zagorwhat was it, 5uA ?
16:45:26Zagorthat's not much
16:45:30langhaarrockermaybe the cpu, the mas and so on can be put in some energy saver mode. But what about all the power generation itself?
16:46:14Zagorwe're directly on batteries. there is no complex power system.
16:46:46langhaarrockerI thought the was some kind of dcdc converter 340?? or something.
16:46:59Zagorisn't that only for charging?
16:47:51langhaarrockerProbably nothing to speculate about. Measurements required.
16:50:18 Quit lksdjf (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:50:21 Join lksdjf [0] (~mecraw@dnvr-dsl-gw34-poola245.DNVR.USWEST.NET)
16:53:14Bagdersee ya
16:53:16 Quit Bagder ("")
16:58:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:00:54 Part Zagor
17:07:52 Join quelsaruk [0] (
17:07:56 Quit quelsaruk (Client Quit)
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17:08:11 Nick quelsaruk is now known as quel|out (
17:10:46 Part elinenbe
17:24:04 Quit TotMacher ()
17:24:06 Join TotMacher [0] (
17:44:07 Join probonic [0] (
17:54:46 Quit kargatron ("Suckers!")
18:21:07 Quit TotMacher ()
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18:33:19 Quit quel|out (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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18:42:06 Quit quelsaruk ("KVIrc 3.0.0-beta1 "Eve's Avatar"")
18:50:23 Quit langhaarrocker ("Trillian (")
18:58:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:10:10 Quit webbie (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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19:27:04 Join DeathValleyJ [0] (
19:27:36 Part wallie
19:27:51DeathValleyJdoes anyone know if a standard USB AA cable will work with the studio 20
19:34:35DeathValleyJthat is, an off the shelf male-male type A connector on each end?
19:34:56DeathValleyJor do I have to pay the $40 from the Archos site?
19:59:08 Nick Synthe` is now known as Synthe (
20:19:21 Join Jet8810 [0] (
20:41:30 Quit pyvasene ("[x]chat")
20:58:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:04:45adi|homenope.. ignore the archos site..
21:04:52adi|homenothing special about the cable except the price
21:13:17 Join edx|notebook [0] (
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21:32:21 Part DeathValleyJ
22:06:51 Quit edx ("later")
22:58:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:02:52 Join PsycoXul_ [0] (
23:02:53 Quit PsycoXul (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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23:19:00 Join Cantello [0] (
23:27:30 Join tot [0] (
23:38:02 Quit TotMacher (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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