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#rockbox log for 2002-10-23

00:04:37 Quit tot|away ()
00:04:48 Quit TotMacher ()
00:04:50 Quit tot ()
00:05:20 Join TotMacher [0] (
00:11:06 Quit dfg ("Client Exiting")
00:33:38 Quit Zagor ("Client Exiting")
00:44:01 Join langhaarrocker [0] (
00:59:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:58:33 Join henrysunset-atwo [0] (~freak@
01:59:10henrysunset-atwoquickie: how hard/how worthwile is the 1500mah>1800 mah battery swaperoo?
01:59:37 Quit TotMacher (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:00:27 Join Mr_Tulip [0] (
02:00:29henrysunset-atwoon that note; would any 9.5mm drive work for upgrade? even the 40 or 60 gig ones? that would be amazingly alot of music.
02:02:06henrysunset-atwothe 20's are worth 80 bux
02:02:12henrysunset-atwoand the 40's cost 120
02:02:20henrysunset-atwoso it's 40 bux to upgrade yourself
02:04:03henrysunset-atwowhat about he battery upgrade; have you done it personally?
02:07:37 Quit langhaarrocker (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
02:15:01 Quit Mr_Tulip ()
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02:48:26Synthethey have 60gb 9.5mm drives now?
02:48:59PsycoXulhave for a while now
02:49:27Synthedamn expensive it looks like tho
02:49:44PsycoXulabout $270US on pricewatch
02:49:55Syntheand only $120 for 40gb drives
02:50:23Syntheconsidering that I just filed for bankruptcy this afternoon, I think I need to hold off on upgrading however much I want to :)
02:50:24PsycoXuljust wait till next year
02:50:47SyntheI'll just have to live with my TiVo with 2 120gb drives in it
02:51:02PsycoXulyeah plus in a year it'll be morke like $270 for the 100gb's and $120 for the 60gb's or something heh
02:51:40SyntheI wonder if there are any size limitations in the IDE bios of the rockbox
02:51:43Syntheof the archos I mean
02:52:01PsycoXulheh i dunno
02:52:12PsycoXuli've heard of people with 60gb drives in theirs
02:52:27PsycoXulso i guess if there is, we'll have to wait till bigger drives come out to find out
02:52:29Syntheyeah, but when it gets to 100gb or more
02:52:50SyntheI'd love to have a 60gb drive, then I could finally fit ALL of my mp3s on it, plus have space to store all my warez :)
02:53:03Syntheportable pirate
02:55:08PsycoXuli just can't wait for the portable high-res touchscreens with terabytes and global wireless broadband
02:55:50Synthescrew the touchscreens, I want virtual HUD displays attached to my optic nerve
02:56:02PsycoXulyeah but i dunno
02:56:08PsycoXulthat's a little too invasive for my taste
02:56:50PsycoXulsome mad hax0r cracks my personal frequency and starts feeding some crazy shit into my vision
02:57:42PsycoXulactualy they've already developed a system for certain kinds of blind people
02:58:01PsycoXulthe project is due for completion in 2004, but they've already got it working apparently
02:58:18Syntheyeah I know
02:59:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:59:23PsycoXulwon't be long before they've got 'em so refined that people with good eyesight will want 'em for the extra features
02:59:52PsycoXulfun world eh?
03:00:35PsycoXulmore will change in our lifetime's than in any other similar timeframe in human history
03:01:19PsycoXulwhich is saying a lot considering all that changed in the last hundred years
03:01:40PsycoXulheh anyway...
03:21:27henrysunset-atwoyou could test bigger drive compatibility by using a small drive to large drive adapter backwards and runnign a 200gb drive on it (powered externally ofcourse)
03:22:26henrysunset-atwowe will prolly see more human-enhancements than believable; or we will all bow ourselves up in a war; either is a bigger change than ever
03:22:48henrysunset-atwoi just want memory 2.0 to enhance my real brain
03:23:12henrysunset-atwoi figgure by the time i'm old we wont worry of alzheimers becasue we will just bypass that part of the mind
03:23:38henrysunset-atwohow hard is the battery swap?
03:23:49henrysunset-atwoi wanna put in 1800 to 2100 mah ones!
03:24:08henrysunset-atwoif the batt's were user swappable i'd just use 1800's and carry a spare paair
03:27:01henrysunset-atwodo they charge over usb?
03:29:58 Join mecraw [0] (~mecraw@dnvr-dsl-gw34-poola245.DNVR.USWEST.NET)
03:31:25henrysunset-atwodoes rockbox start searching for music off the root? or can you make it begin in a subfolder such as "my music"?
03:31:50henrysunset-atwoif you can start in a subfolder; i could have another folder for non-music and it would stay out of my way.
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09:07:40 Join bobTHC [0] (
09:07:46bobTHChi all!!!
09:22:25 Quit PsycoXul ("hardware upgrade")
09:30:34 Join Zagor_ [242] (
09:30:34 Nick Zagor_ is now known as Zagor (
09:30:34Zagormorning, all
09:31:40Schnueffmoin Zagor
09:40:48 Join PsycoXul [0] (
09:55:36 Join quelsaruk [0] (
10:02:33henrysunsethave ya'll considered a spoken interface?
10:02:47henrysunsetdable'able ofcourse
10:02:55henrysunset*disable'able i meant
10:02:55Zagoryeah, i think we have a feature request for it
10:02:59henrysunsetoh ok
10:03:07henrysunsetthat would be the killer ui for a car
10:03:25henrysunseti can't wait to get mine; i have some great ideas i think
10:03:42 Join pyvasene [0] (
10:03:43henrysunseti will share
10:03:57henrysunsetlet's just hope they are good enough to get ya'll to code 'em
10:04:27Zagoroh, the ideas
10:04:32henrysunseti'm sorta a UI nut; so i'll have fun
10:04:36henrysunsetthey = ideas yes
10:04:53Zagorhehe, knock yourself out. we accept all ideas.
10:05:19henrysunsetsmall screens and already selected button configs are fun; they present unique challenges as a designer
10:05:37henrysunsetwhat is it's graphical capabilities
10:05:42henrysunsetcan we blit individual pixels
10:05:50langhaarrockerWith I ui nut available I should speed up bindable key schemes.
10:05:50henrysunsetor there a character interpreter in the way?
10:05:51Zagori think we've done a pretty ok job so far. but then I'm a low-lever programmer and no UI designer :)
10:06:11Zagorhenrysunset: the recorder is bitmapped, so we have pixel access
10:06:19henrysunsetthe demo version you can use on a PC seemed pretty good tho
10:06:35henrysunsetdoes the recorder have more mem for software?
10:06:44henrysunsetliek how close to full is the existign codebase?
10:06:46Zagorno, it's the same 2MB for all models
10:07:01henrysunsetshared mem architecture?
10:07:07henrysunsetfor caching and code i assume
10:07:07Zagoryup. those 2MB are for software and mp3 buffer.
10:07:16henrysunsethow much we using now?
10:07:21langhaarrockerBut it's a good idea to keep the executable small to have mem for mp3 caching
10:07:35Zagor~200 KB for code and runtime data
10:07:38henrysunsetsaves batteries too
10:07:50henrysunsetso a lil space to work w/?
10:08:05henrysunsetcan we save power by feeding it wav raw data too?
10:08:08Zagoryeah, but I'm picky. no wasting allowed.
10:08:10henrysunsetdoes it handle it?
10:08:16Zagorhenrysunset: no, it's a dedicated mp3 decoder
10:08:29henrysunsetso a voice ui'd have to be lil mp3's eh?
10:08:42henrysunsetcan we overlay at all
10:08:44Zagoryup :)
10:08:51henrysunsetthat's a start
10:08:56langhaarrockerno overlay
10:08:56henrysunsetthe proc can really do that?
10:08:59Zagorhenrysunset: no, only one stream at a time
10:09:01henrysunsetugh; ok
10:09:11henrysunsetso crossfader is a never feature
10:09:23henrysunsetthat's fine
10:09:34Zagori have some interlacing ideas i'll try, but I don't think it'll sound good
10:09:41henrysunsetare there calls to invert the lcd? for say; a region?
10:10:01henrysunsetthat'd be useful as hell
10:10:06langhaarrockerWhat about syncing serveral recorders via serial interface and make a mulitracker?
10:10:11 Join TotMacher [0] (
10:10:14henrysunsetdoes it use that for current selection now?
10:10:20Zagorlanghaarrocker: people use it to DJ already
10:10:28henrysunseti was wonderign; does pitch change the speed?
10:10:30Zagorhenrysunset: no, we use a cursor
10:10:44Zagorhenrysunset: yes, it simply clocks the decoder faster/slower
10:10:55henrysunsetever try inverted text for the selection?
10:11:04henrysunsetyay; beatmatching mania
10:11:10Zagoryeah, we have a patch for it. but it became rather slow. we need to optimise it a bit.
10:11:15langhaarrockerZagor: I'll help our dj soon because it's easy to extend the base of my split editor to a universal loop editor, as well
10:11:21henrysunsethrm; suprised it was slow
10:11:46henrysunsetso if the main code is small; can it load ext apps?
10:11:47Zagorhenrysunset: lcd_invertrect() is in software
10:11:59henrysunsetoh so it's a software func... i see
10:12:09Zagorhenrysunset: it can load a replacement module and start it, but not plugins yet
10:12:23henrysunseti was assumiing it mapped closely to hardware
10:12:41henrysunsetalright... let's see if i got any more ?'s
10:12:41Zagorthis way we can let people easily switch btwn factory firmware and rockbox
10:13:11henrysunsetif it were pluginabble things like the playlist editor could be seperate
10:13:21langhaarrockerYou can investigate the faq for more questions...
10:13:37Zagoryeah. we have some plans for plugins. we'll see how it works out.
10:13:43henrysunsethow complex is the code? i guess most of the filesystem and mp3ness is already in hardware so we are just moving bits around?
10:13:56henrysunseti read the faq; tho i should revisit it
10:14:03Zagorhenrysunset: no, the filesystem is all software. just the mp3 decoder is hardware.
10:14:08henrysunseti'm trying to avoid seeing any code.
10:14:12henrysunsetoh ok, thx.
10:14:23 Nick quelsaruk is now known as quel|out (
10:14:30henrysunsetand writign to the FS is in the works?
10:14:40Zagorwe've had plenty of compliments about the code. it's very readable.
10:14:50henrysunseti believe u
10:14:53 Part bobTHC
10:14:54henrysunsetbut i'm not allowed to seee
10:14:59Zagorhenrysunset: yes, I'm working on that now. first version is in CVS now.
10:15:05henrysunsetcool beans
10:15:30Zagorwhat are you working on at microsoft?
10:15:36henrysunseti should prolly read my job legalese; i may not even be able to contribute ideas; but then again small projects may be OK.
10:15:43henrysunsetpowerpoint essentially
10:15:46Zagorworking with, rather
10:15:47Zagorif you can tell us :-)
10:15:52henrysunsetyes i can
10:15:59henrysunseti'm a program manager so i dont do code though
10:16:10henrysunseti do design and boring management stuff
10:16:15henrysunseti do code a bit
10:16:41henrysunsetmostly web... i wrote as a ongoing side project
10:17:11henrysunsetcs degree for somethign I say
10:18:20Zagorthat's you, on the Polar Bear Swim?
10:18:46Zagornot much of a winter you've got ;)
10:19:00henrysunsetit varies
10:19:04henrysunsetthat was in MD
10:19:15henrysunsetnow i'm on the other coast
10:19:56henrysunsetanother idea: how about "wasting" another line @ the top of the browser for the current path location?
10:20:12henrysunsetit'd be nice and keep u less lost
10:20:20Zagoryup, not a bad idea.
10:20:46henrysunseti know it's been said but a % battery would be good too
10:21:13Zagoryeah, we could have a toggle. graphic or text representation.
10:21:29henrysunsetoh ok
10:22:11henrysunsetalong the lines of showing depth in file tree; maybe show depth in other things too, like for example the options tree could be represented there too
10:22:53henrysunsetso f1 is modal; settings VS browser?
10:23:21Zagorno, it's menu on/off. you can access it from browser or wps
10:23:27henrysunsetif there are just three modes wouldn't it be sensible to use f1-f3
10:23:28Zagorwps == While Playing Screen
10:23:30henrysunsetoh ok
10:23:35henrysunsetyea i got that thx
10:23:54henrysunsetso the menu is conceptually "above" the current thing
10:23:58Zagorf2 and f3 are too valuable to "waste" on single functions, IMHO
10:24:09henrysunsetperhpas; but modalities are bad too
10:24:35henrysunsetwhen buttons do different thigns in different times
10:24:55langhaarrockerwe need that for feature greed
10:25:01Zagorah. but they don't. f1, f2 and f3 always do the same thing
10:25:24henrysunsetlike doubleclicking f1 would in essence bring you back to where u started... if you are driving and aren't sure if you clicked it or not u are gonna have to look at the screen to be sure
10:25:35langhaarrockerno doulbe clicks yet
10:25:35Zagorwe've just added settings screens to f2 and f3 to be able to do many things with them. so they are essentially modifiers instead of dedicated keys.
10:25:44henrysunsetif f1-f3 were each constant that wouldnt be an issue.
10:26:03henrysunsetyeah; i see that; but to me i'd say that is kinda a waste too
10:26:13Zagorbut that would also mean having to hunt in the menu for those frequent toggles
10:26:32henrysunsetwhat about somethign liek a hold a ong time for menu thing
10:26:40henrysunsetcan we detect how long button is pressed?
10:26:51henrysunsetdo we use that?
10:26:56Zagoryes, for repeat
10:26:57langhaarrockerit's used eg for pitch
10:26:59henrysunsetoh ok
10:27:17Zagorand some functions are activated on "long hold"
10:27:27henrysunsetgood call
10:27:38henrysunsetmay as well get everythign you can get out of it
10:27:57henrysunsetany dual button commands?
10:28:05Zagoryeah, plenty :-)
10:28:22ZagorF2+LEFT toggles shuffle, for instance
10:28:36langhaarrockeron+up increases pitch
10:28:39ZagorF1+DOWN toggles keylock
10:28:51Zagoryou should probably read the manual. there are many keys... :-)
10:31:00henrysunsetyes this is really a tricky arrangement.
10:31:10henrysunseti got one
10:31:16henrysunsetever use a ti85?
10:31:28Zagorno, i don't think i have
10:31:32langhaarrockerHenrysunset: I'm working on bindable key schemes so that the user will be able to configure which keys map to what with a config file. I think that many menus will turn user configurable, too. Once we have that you can do ui without programming.
10:31:33henrysunsetwe could have f1/f3 do diff stuff @ diff times
10:31:46henrysunsetand label them at the bottom line of the screen
10:31:52Zagormodalities? ;)
10:32:09henrysunsetbut if it is consistently modal and labelled it's not evil
10:32:26henrysunseti agree this problem is too complex to be 100% unmodal
10:32:49Zagorhenrysunset: yeah, we could. but: 1) it eats yet another row on the display 2) it makes it harder to memorize the location of functions, since they keep moving
10:33:06henrysunsetit's a interestign idea at the least.
10:33:35henrysunsetgoodness; if we have control of on/off; how do you turn it off???
10:33:39ZagorF2 and F3 displays a "label" screen that tells you which key does what. so it almost works this way already.
10:33:57henrysunsetso it does
10:33:58Zagorhenrysunset: hold down OFF. That is the only key we can't get repeats from :-)
10:34:24langhaarrockercomplain at archos about that :)
10:35:05henrysunsetall i can say is yal''s existence is the only reason i am buying it anyhow
10:35:16henrysunseti tried one years ago and hated it too much
10:35:17Zagor:-) tell *that* to archos
10:35:32henrysunsetit made *no Sense*
10:35:59Zagorwas it a recorder, or the older model?
10:36:08henrysunsetolder i think
10:36:14henrysunsetnot enough bottons
10:36:26langhaarrockerthen it was a player
10:36:52Zagoryeah, those are pretty strange
10:37:12langhaarrockerI want a touch pad
10:37:55henrysunsethrm; could we have a neat feature like this (assuming we can write to dsik): have the whole tree of files as on/off's. selectign a file as on makes it in the playlist; off and it's gone. selecting a folder as on turns on all childeren and off turns them all off?
10:38:14Zagorwe sure could
10:38:15henrysunsetso a "playlist" would be viewale in the tree AND as the playlist itself
10:38:21henrysunsetthat would rule
10:39:20henrysunsetso the f-keys... are they labeled ont he recorder?
10:39:30henrysunseti haven't a high enough res image of it
10:39:38henrysunsetdoes it tell what to do w/ them onscreen?
10:39:58 Quit TotMacher ()
10:40:04Zagornot directly. but once you press one, it displays a help screen
10:40:25henrysunset(refeering to the built in system i meant)
10:40:30henrysunsetnot rockboxx
10:40:46langhaarrockerit does
10:40:51Zagorah, ok. yeah the builtin system is more like your idea: labels and different function in each menu
10:42:18henrysunsetwe could use the f1-f3 as sorta a navigation tool... kinda like back forward and home in a webbrowser
10:42:31henrysunsetthey almost look like arrows
10:42:37langhaarrockerArchos firmware made me loose many recordings because I took 'stop recording' for 'make a new file'
10:42:53henrysunsetand it deletes it infact?
10:43:17langhaarrockerNo but I wanted to go on recording in a new file but not stop recording.
10:43:28Zagorhenrysunset: yeah, but people generally want access to features fast and noninteractively. navigating implies feedback and interactivity.
10:43:47henrysunsetyes it does
10:44:26henrysunsetand they want 800x600 full color screens and a backrub. :-)
10:44:33langhaarrockerusing rockbox blindly could be improved.
10:44:40Zagorapple went the navigating route on the iPod, and many people hate them for it
10:44:48henrysunsetipod is quite nice
10:44:54henrysunsetbut not blindly usable
10:45:01henrysunsetunless they added a sopken UI
10:45:37henrysunsetwell; it's a compromise however you split it.
10:45:37langhaarrockerLet's make rockbox an annoying telephone answer machine!
10:46:16langhaarrocker"Pleas hit f1 if you want to speak with the operator, F2 for service ...."
10:46:34Zagorthe fun part is it's actually doable :)
10:46:47henrysunseti bet it is
10:46:53henrysunsetprolly not hard even
10:47:03henrysunsetwell; without seeing (and no voice UI); all you can really expect to do is change song and volume
10:47:12Zagorjust solder together a DTMF to serial box and plug it in the remote control hack
10:47:14henrysunsetunless the ui is hella memorizable
10:47:32henrysunsetthat'd be funny
10:47:39henrysunseta call-in mp3 player
10:47:40Zagoryeah, it would
10:48:40langhaarrockerWe should use the internal mic and analyse that. -> Answer time about 2h
10:49:05henrysunsetvoice recognitin eh?
10:49:13Schnueffmaybe just touch-tone for a start :)
10:49:44langhaarrockerhope the batteries don't drain before voice recognition completes.
10:49:54Zagorvoice recognition on a 12MHz chip. it'd be like that computer in "Hitchhikers guide"
10:49:57henrysunsetit don't charge off usb no?
10:50:05Schnueffrockbox == babelfish ?
10:50:14Zagor4000 years later there's an answer: "42"
10:50:42henrysunsetare the batts remotely easy to swap on the recorder? i defintiely gonna put in 1800's
10:50:52henrysunset2100's if i can find cheap enough
10:50:55Zagorhenrysunset: yeah, very easy
10:51:05henrysunsetwith/w/out screwdriver?
10:51:18henrysunsetoh really?
10:51:26henrysunsetso it's reasonable to carry spares?
10:51:37langhaarrockerMany people complained about the difficulties of changing batteries. I don't know why.
10:51:41henrysunsetthat is good news
10:51:44Zagoryup. the silver cylinders to the left and right of the lcd are battery covers.
10:51:57henrysunsetoh i thought u had to unscrew the blue thignies
10:52:05henrysunsetbut it only accepts nimh
10:52:08Zagoronly when you swap out the harddisk :-)
10:52:16henrysunsetwhich i intend to do
10:52:22henrysunsetyay 40$ for 40gb
10:52:27henrysunsetnot a bad upgrade
10:52:37henrysunsetafter sellign 20 that is
10:52:57Zagorhere's how to open the unit without bending any metal parts:
10:53:00henrysunsetso after 220$ it'l have bigger batts and twice the space
10:53:06langhaarrockerIf you have a 40 gb harddrive we have to invent video for rockbox.
10:53:12henrysunseti only need that for the HD tho
10:53:28henrysunsethehe; video on the teeny screenie
10:53:39langhaarrockerin bw without gray.
10:53:49henrysunsetever see the swimming dolphin visualizations on car cd players?
10:53:59henrysunsetany way to hack grey
10:54:06langhaarrockerI don't have a car.
10:54:07Zagorinterlacing, maybe
10:54:18henrysunsettey did it on the ti85 w/ asm code that had a wacky refresh
10:54:34henrysunset12mhz eh?
10:54:48henrysunsetnot a lot to work w/
10:54:58henrysunsetwhat architecture?
10:54:59langhaarrockerThe refresh is not so much of a problem but the lcd is a bit slow
10:55:09henrysunsetslow at drwaing or what?
10:55:19henrysunsetlimited bandwidth?
10:55:24langhaarrocker12 MHz is enough. More would only waste batteries
10:55:30henrysunsetyea true
10:55:36henrysunsetwhat cpu?
10:55:43henrysunseti can look that up
10:56:00langhaarrockerlcd technology. We can refresh the thing faster than it can turn pixels on and of.
10:56:17henrysunsetoh, so we could pull off grayscale then
10:56:30henrysunsethaxor style
10:56:30Zagorpossibly. i don't think anyone's tested it yet.
10:56:47 Part Zagor
10:56:49henrysunsetbut why is always relevant
10:57:18henrysunseti drove him away
10:57:28henrysunsetthx laugh etc...
10:57:33henrysunseter langh
10:57:43henrysunsetthanks :-)
10:57:46henrysunsetfor the info that is
10:57:51henrysunseti'm off to bed
10:57:54 Join Zagor_ [242] (
10:58:00henrysunseti'll dream of rockboxes and interfaces
10:58:02 Nick Zagor_ is now known as Zagor (
10:58:05langhaarrockerOh, that made Zagor reappear
10:58:08henrysunsetnetwork cabbloey?
10:58:25Zagorxwin32 crashed horribly
10:58:37henrysunsetp,s, b4 i pass out; where geographically ya'll form?
10:58:39langhaarrockernetwork: It can receive serial data
10:58:43henrysunsetd'oh that's not good
10:58:53Zagorhenrysunset: i'm from sweden
10:58:59henrysunsetand are there now?
10:59:09Zagoryeah, i'm there now
10:59:09henrysunseteuropeans eh?
10:59:15langhaarrockeryes. aliens
10:59:18henrysunseti liked both places whn i visited
10:59:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:59:23Zagorwe've got contributors from all over the place
10:59:41langhaarrockerAfricans? Chineese?
11:00:00Zagorwe have some people from south africa, and definitely chinese
11:00:22henrysunsetthat's good to cover all bases
11:00:33henrysunsetgood contrib's are good wherever from
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11:00:42langhaarrockerStrange that we don't have chineese fonts yet.
11:00:52henrysunsetno? that's too bad
11:02:09henrysunsetgrmbl; hasn't shipped yet.
11:05:43Triple-zhows the quque is going?
11:21:32ZagorTriple-z: is anyone working on queue?
11:22:49Triple-zso ive been told
11:26:26quel|outZagor: i heard something about that, but i can't remember what :)
11:29:45langhaarrockerZagor: has the logarithmic peak meter patch been considered yet?
11:30:05Zagori haven't looked at it yet. the write code is keeping me busy.
11:30:20langhaarrockergo on being busy then!
11:43:11 Nick Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch (
11:48:25 Join Bagder [241] (
11:48:43Bagderhey ho
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11:52:00 Part langhaarrocker
12:12:06 Quit quel|out ("rebooting")
12:22:42 Nick Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor (
12:22:49Zagoryo, bagder
12:33:52Bagderyou think I should carry along a linux laptop tomorrow? ;-)
12:34:18Zagorif you have one, bring it!
12:34:24Bagderi installed one this morning
12:34:36*Zagor drools
12:34:54BagderI thought I'd get the rockbox cvs to it etc during the afternoon
12:34:56Zagorgrab the code and we're set for the weekend :-)
12:37:46Bagderit has usb too
12:38:19BagderI'll get a linux kernel tarball too
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13:03:07 Join langhaarrocker [0] (
13:03:57Zagor"Linux has surpassed Unix to become a leading challenger as a platform for embedded development."
13:04:08Zagoruhh, who ever used Unix for embedded development???
13:04:18 Nick seb-sleep is now known as _seb_ (
13:04:43Bagderthere's a solaris for embedded ;-)
13:05:04Zagoro god. requires a SparcII minimum, i bet...
13:21:45memIsn't Linux a type of Unix?
13:21:46Zagorreally odd problem in today's build
13:22:08Zagormem: yeah, but those kind of articles often mean commercial unices when they say "Unix"
13:23:09memZagor: I know that commercial perspective of the the work Unix but I think it's odd
13:23:35ZagorI agree. it's journalist-speak
13:24:22*mem saw something interesting in this weeks Debian News: Nasa has developed FlightLinux that will be used for spacecrafts, etc
13:24:59Zagoryeah, i've heard about that. sounds cool :)
13:26:02memWhen will Rockbox be standard equipment on ISS? :-)
13:29:22Zagorhehe. mission critical systems.
13:29:56Schnueffwould give u perfect 2001 feeling
13:38:10langhaarrockerHow do you call this phenomenon when a single button press results in multiple events due to electromechanical reasons?
13:38:28 Quit _seb_ ()
13:40:31langhaarrockerIs it normal that key presses on the uisimulator (windows) bounce?
13:40:53Zagori don't know, I have never tried the win simulator
13:41:01Zagorthe x11 version doesn't bounce
13:41:38langhaarrockerOn WinXP it gets stuck on the Fx_screens
13:43:13Zagoryou can't get out?
13:43:40langhaarrockerno. I can still change the offered options but I cant leave the screen.
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13:48:01Blaster_MasterI have a quick question.. a while ago i read an article describing the effects of reformating the JB6000 with a diferent blocksize... is there any truth in that ?
13:48:22Blaster_Masteri mean in a performance gain :)
13:48:32Zagordifferent blocksize? do you mean cluster size?
13:49:25Blaster_Masterog yes
13:50:12Zagoryou could do that. I doubt you'll see much difference, however.
13:50:46langhaarrockercan rockbox cope with different cluster sizes?
13:51:11Zagorbut not different sector sizes
13:51:37Zagori have never seen anyone use sector!=512 though, so it's not much of a problem
13:51:49Blaster_Masterwhat do yopu recommend i do, the standart thing in windows 2000
13:51:56ZagorBlaster_Master: yeah
13:52:59langhaarrockerAnother question I never dared to ask: When the original firmware boots from rom - is it copied into memory before execution?
13:53:30Zagorwe don't know for sure, but I would guess so.
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13:59:10langhaarrockerDo we know wether all the firmware is in the rom or if some of it is mask-programmed in the sh1?
13:59:35Zagori don't know
14:03:10langhaarrockerThe gdb/serial thing - Does that enable you to step through the code and read out the registers for debugging?
14:04:48 Part Zagor
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14:05:40 Nick Zagor_ is now known as Zagor (
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14:41:11langhaarrockerZagor: concerning key schemes.
14:41:11langhaarrockerWe for sure want a compiled in factory preset key scheme. I'd like to maintain the factory presets in the same file format that the user can use to make his own key schemes. We could use a mechanism similar to the lang files: generate c files from the scheme config file.
14:41:50Zagorwhy generate C files? surely you don't interpret the text data raw?
14:42:56Zagorah, sorry i was confused. yes, that would be a good idea.
14:43:25langhaarrockerBut I don't want to have the scheme file parsing twice - for the rockbox and for genscheme.
14:44:16langhaarrockerThis means we get a genscheme tool that uses c code from apps/key_scheme. -> A break of unwritten rules.
14:44:52Zagortrue. make it elegant. :-)
14:46:54langhaarrockerThe only solution I have in mind is to have a tools/genscheme.c that links with a heavily #ifdef'ed apps/key_scheme.c.
14:47:15langhaarrockerMaybe there are more elegant options.
14:47:58Zagorstart with that. i don't have any better ideas.
14:48:17langhaarrockerHave we had code that was shared between rockbox and tools yet? Font generation?
14:59:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:05:58 Join elinenbe|sleep [0] (
15:06:21Bagdernice weather
15:06:58Zagorlooks ok :)
15:07:12Zagori need to dig out my shorts from the closet :)
15:09:02Zagornice rant, bagder
15:09:03langhaarrockerI'll need an umbrella.
15:09:18BagderZagor: he makes me a bit upset
15:09:23Zagoryeah, me too
15:09:24 Join matp [0] (~mpritch@
15:09:36matphello, anyone around?
15:09:59matphowdy. I've not been round these parts for a while ...
15:10:00langhaarrockerBagder: bse?
15:10:25Zagormad cow
15:10:27langhaarrockerThis mad-cow desease
15:10:37Zagormatp: welcome back :-)
15:10:50matpthanks :)
15:10:51langhaarrockermatp: brought up any features?
15:10:51Bagderthat's me
15:11:09Zagorugh, i messed up the fat driver a bit... :-)
15:11:40matpnot even glanced at the code for a couple of months now
15:11:50Bagdershame on you!
15:12:07matpI'm ready to get stuck in again
15:12:29Zagormatp: goodie. we've got a todo at
15:12:42Zagorplus heaps and heaps of feature requests, of course :-)
15:13:09matpI've just got hold of 1.4. It's not doing multi-line scrolling. known issue?
15:13:16matpI'll take a look at the TODO
15:13:20Schnueffuh is the TODO updated
15:13:22Zagor1.4 doesn't support multi-line
15:13:29Schnueffeh sorry
15:13:59Zagorcvs does
15:14:07matpI got this as a wps:
15:14:13DBUGEnqueued KICK matp
15:14:13matpTime: %pc / %pt
15:14:14***Alert Mode level 1
15:14:17Zagorbut currently cvs is broken in some other ways due to my fat muckabout
15:14:40matpand nothing scrolls at all
15:14:50matpooh, can't wait for fat write support
15:14:59Zagormatp: 1.4 only supports one %s
15:15:06Zagorwe need to specify that in the docs
15:16:02matpthe lastest build supports it?
15:16:23matpshould have known to get the bleeding edge :)
15:16:43Zagorit bugs right now. i'm fixing.
15:16:51Bagderyou'll get Zagor's bugs too, they're bundled ;-)
15:20:19matpok, expect to see me around. I'll be back :)
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15:24:15***Alert Mode OFF
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16:02:19 Join Hes [0] (
16:04:36Zagorphew, fat works again...
16:04:51CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
16:04:51*Bagder applaus
16:05:13Zagorit's hairy business
16:05:21*langhaarrocker grins
16:14:11memTalking about bugs, it's a bug in the FAT32 comments from yesterday. Zagor "Nixed some bugs"
16:16:54memAnd as "nix" in Swedish is like "no-way", so it's a bit funny
16:19:18 Quit mecraw ("Trillian (")
16:19:31Zagorit's true. there's no way there are bugs in my code :-)
16:20:16memNo bugs in the code, just in the comment
16:21:20Zagorwe need to debug the comments
16:21:53langhaarrockerZagor: add that to the todo list.
16:24:42adi|homebagder.. what was this rant that zagor was mentioning you made?
16:24:48adi|homeanything for public consumption?
16:25:25 Join TotMacher [0] (
16:28:05adi|homeokay.. im fixing the snow demo not displaying...
16:28:29adi|homei noticed it the other day, thought it was just my unit being stupid :)
16:35:35ZagorFYI: Bagder and I will be away the rest of the week.
16:35:53langhaarrockerWho allowed that?
16:35:56*adi|home grins
16:36:02*Bagder slaps adiamas ;-)
16:36:24adi|homecome on.. it was funny and you know it :)
16:36:34*Bagder giggles
16:36:44Bagderpoor Linus ain't coming with us
16:36:56adi|homehehe see.. ive maintained my humor as ive increased my code output :)
16:37:07adi|homewhere ya going?
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16:37:28Bagderwe're going to Spain
16:37:40adi|homebuisness trip?
16:38:26Bagderyou know, lots of talk on how to become better, how to develop, how to sell more, find new markets... yada yada
16:38:26adi|homedamn europeans and your ease of traveling between countries...
16:39:31*adi|home just wants to know when you are going to offer him a job :)
16:39:58langhaarrockerIn europe?
16:40:08adi|homeim joung
16:40:11adi|homeyoung even
16:40:12adi|homei can move
16:41:39adi|homesnow fixed
16:42:07langhaarrockerWhat? You fixed snow?
16:42:30Schnueffsnow here has some bugs
16:42:38Schnueffit comes down in the form of rain
16:42:46adi|homedefind 'bugs'
16:42:52Bagderwe'll soon be covered in snow here
16:42:53adi|homedefine even
16:43:00adi|homeheheh damn swededs
16:43:06Bagderalready had our first snow storms
16:43:07*adi|home screams at his keyboard
16:43:15Schnueffadi|home: as i said, it's raining cats and dogs
16:43:17adi|homesee.. this is what happens when i sleep all night and code during the daylight
16:43:27*adi|home pokes Schnueff
16:43:29adi|homethe fix it ;)
16:43:33Schnueffu fxi
16:43:34Schnuefffix :)
16:44:04adi|homeheheh nope..
16:44:10adi|homei don't think anythin is wrong with it ;)
16:44:23Schnueffwhats ommand-line ? :)
16:44:59adi|homebah.. coding is easy to learn ;)
16:45:06adi|homeits like the game of go
16:45:16adi|homeeasy to learn, a lifetime to master :)
16:45:23Zagorspelling is hard
16:46:07*Zagor kicks dosfsck
16:46:18ZagorFree cluster summary wrong (400484 vs. really 400485)
16:46:26adi|homewhat is the on trick mentioned for the bounce demo?
16:46:39Bagderpress ON to switch "mode"
16:46:48Zagorthat bugs too in daily build
16:47:21adi|homewhat bugs?
16:47:44Bagderpressing on while running bounce I guess
16:49:13BagderI got the best mail yday
16:49:43Bagder"please tell me how much money (>1000$) you want for the help you've provided us"
16:50:09memBagder: Was it from Archos? :-)
16:50:11Bagderand its not a fake
16:50:21Bagderit's a happy curl user
16:53:58 Join dfg [0] (
16:54:05Zagorahhh, GOT TI
16:54:33Bagderyou write fat fine? ;-)
16:55:06Zagorbut I allocate a cluster too many if you fill up the previous cluster exactly
16:55:23Zagorso dosfsck complains
16:55:38Zagorbut only when over-writing files, not creating... :-)
16:57:17Bagdermade the basics for a test suite I see
16:58:59Zagormake sure that laptop's charged tomorrow :-)
16:59:12BagderI'll try
16:59:24BagderI'll try to remember my USB cable too ;-)
16:59:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:59:53BagderI haven't built a new kernel yet either, so we'll probably need to set that up too
16:59:58langhaarrockerThere's no better place then a train for programming.
17:00:10Zagorlanghaarrocker: too bad we're on a plane :)
17:00:51langhaarrockerZagor: you won't get much done then.
17:01:33langhaarrockerNearly all the code I produced for rockbox was programmed on train.
17:01:54Bagdernow why doesn't bounce work?
17:03:47Bagderwho wants to go to spain without a working bounce? ;-)
17:04:25adi|homebounce works
17:04:32adi|homei just think the 'on' is a bit flakey
17:04:39adi|homelike your not detecting the repeat or something
17:05:34Bagdermine doesn't work
17:05:42BagderI'll do a clean and rebuild
17:06:50adi|homegod damn it... wtf is with ppl submitting feature/bug requests w/o reading the FAQ?
17:06:58Bagderit does not work for me
17:07:07adi|hometrying now
17:07:18Bagderit says 'off to stop' for a second and then bails out
17:07:31adi|homeseems to work for me..
17:07:43adi|homeill try a clean build again.. hold on
17:07:51Bagderhm I think I know why
17:10:18adi|homewhat was it?
17:10:35Bagderit got the release event and bailed out immediately
17:10:43BagderI changed & to a ==
17:11:02Zagorit bugs if you hold it down too
17:11:14Zagorprolly repeat related
17:11:20Bagderhold down what?
17:11:47Bagdernot with my fix now, does it?
17:11:49Zagormaybe you're not supposed to do that :-)
17:11:55Zagormaybe not
17:14:43adi|homeit seems like the default settings for bounce make it act weird on my player
17:15:36adi|homexsanke: 1 ysanke: 1 xadd:1 yadd:1 xdist: -4 ydist: -6
17:15:42adi|homeanyone else have that by default?
17:16:18Bagder {"xsanke", 1},
17:16:18Bagder {"ysanke", 1},
17:16:18Bagder {"xadd", 1},
17:16:18Bagder {"yadd", 1},
17:16:19Bagder {"xdist", -4},
17:16:21Bagder {"ydistt", -6},
17:16:28Bagderlooks like a default, yes ;-)
17:16:45adi|homegives me a weird bounce like that...
17:17:04adi|homexsanke and ysanke = 0 is a bit better.. but it may just be me
17:17:27adi|homewhat does sanke mean anyway?
17:17:38Bagderthe sanke stuff is the speed getting a sine wave added to it
17:17:55adi|homegot ya
17:18:05Bagdersanke is just the guy we once knew who "invented" that weirdo thing
17:18:06Zagorold skool C64 demo stuff :)
17:18:39adi|homehehe okay
17:19:11Bagderwhen we get file writing, I'll save the settings ;-)
17:19:48adi|homei think if cube spin rate was related somehow to the music that would be really cool :)
17:20:29 Join edx [0] (
17:20:58Bagder... and then make bounce take a given .txt file to scroll
17:21:27adi|homethats completely doable
17:21:37adi|homeoh... oh..
17:21:44adi|homehave it scroll the name of the song playing ;)
17:21:47Bagderwith that ON scroll it's almost there
17:22:01Bagderthat's almost too easy!
17:22:26adi|homeheheh what we _could_ do is
17:22:29adi|homethe .txt file
17:22:35langhaarrockeranimate it using the peak info!
17:22:48adi|homecould come from the .wps info :)
17:22:58BagderI tried to actually make the bounce-scroller bounce
17:23:00adi|homeit: %pn
17:23:03Bagderbut it looked crap
17:23:26Bagdercan't move the letters fast enough looking good
17:23:57adi|homedamn that slashdot
17:24:02adi|hometheir poll is unfair
17:24:10adi|homewho is your favorite cartoon geek
17:24:18adi|homethey have Dexter AND Mojo-jojo
17:24:34Zagorwho is your favorite carton geek? ;)
17:25:19adi|homeheheh i like Dexter ....
17:25:25adi|homebut mojo-jojo rocks!
17:26:09Zagoris that someone who is obsessively interested in cartons, or simply appears on them frequently?
17:26:30adi|homedexter is from the cartoon 'dexter's laboratory;
17:26:46adi|homeand mojo-jojo is a villan from 'Powerpuff Girls'
17:26:56Zagorgotta go
17:27:00adi|homedamnit.. they have brain too..
17:27:03adi|homedidnt see that..
17:27:03 Part Zagor
17:27:04*adi|home sighs
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20:24:13 Part quelsaruk (""Eve's Avatar - Avatar's Eve"")
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23:03:41Electrocutdoes Rockbox 1.4 support remote control ?
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23:57:30 Nick tot|away is now known as TotMacher (

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