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#rockbox log for 2002-11-19

00:01:12 Quit NiarkY ("leaving by all :)")
00:09:07 Nick LinusN|movie is now known as LinusN (
00:09:07DBUGEnqueued KICK LinusN
00:10:16LinusNup late?
00:10:42Bagdergetting the hotmail address book
00:12:31BagderI write the script in perl and sends it off
00:12:44Bagderhe converts it to PHP, it fails and he mails be back and asks why...
00:13:24Hadaka"converts" I assume ;)
00:13:38Bagderit's not very nicely done
00:20:51 Join TotMach3r [0] (
00:21:33 Part TotMach3r
00:21:42 Join TotMach3r [0] (
00:32:34LinusNdamn, i can't commit my recording fixes, sourceforge seems down
00:33:28Bagderyeah, the cvs is screwed up
00:33:37Bagderbeen like that for hours now
00:33:44LinusNmust be the improvements they made yesterday :-)
00:33:55Hadakawonder when they are going to get svn there ;)
00:34:13Bagderyes, that'll be interesting
00:39:21 Quit TotMacher (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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00:51:46 Quit Bagder ("")
00:54:23 Part LinusN
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02:55:04 Quit mecraw_ ("Trillian (")
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07:49:52 Join Bagder [241] (
08:39:52 Join Zagor- [242] (
08:41:50 Nick Zagor- is now known as Zagor (
08:52:05Bagdertime to go offline
08:52:07Bagdersee ya
08:52:09 Quit Bagder ("")
08:56:33 Nick dw|gone is now known as dwihno (dwihno@Bald067.Baldakinen.Umea.SE)
08:56:33DBUGEnqueued KICK dwihno
08:58:21dwihnoI greet thee!
08:59:08dwihnoall is well?
08:59:31dwihnoI managed to get all my laptop hardware working with freebsd last night
08:59:50dwihnoIncluding the archos and my other mass storage box
09:00:57dwihnoSomehow I managed to overwrite the MBR though :)
09:01:08dwihno(keeping both win2k and fbsd on the same disk)
09:01:27dwihnoI'm gonna fix that later tonight though, and get some kind of dual boot setup up & running
09:02:47dwihnoAlso Opera has been released for fbsd
09:02:51dwihnoA lot of cool stuff :)
09:03:32Zagorhow come you choose fbsd instead of linux? i thought you said linux had too few applications!
09:06:38dwihnoYes :)
09:06:51dwihnoThere are a couple of applications I just can't live without
09:07:03dwihnoMainly the adobe family of software
09:08:08Zagor...and? why then freebsd, who isn't exactly first on adobes port list.
09:08:18dwihnonot really
09:08:25dwihnobut I feel more comfortable with freebsd
09:10:18dwihnoI've been using some bridging features and firewalling some time ago and I thought freebsd did a marvellous job too :)
09:10:25dwihnoI never tested iptables though
09:12:31Zagorok. whatever makes you happy :-)
09:12:48dwihnoA nice slogan
09:12:52dwihno"Whatever makes you happy"
09:12:58dwihnoSounds like a song by Phil Collins
09:48:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:44:10 Join TotMacher [0] (
10:46:20 Join LinusN [0] (
10:47:11LinusNi wanted to commit my irq changes yesterday, but sourceforge was crazy
10:48:04Schnueffhm they announced something some weeks ago
10:48:08Zagoryeah, I had the same problem sunday night
10:48:18Schnueffthat they would be down for maintenance on some of these days
10:48:34LinusNsunday was maintenance day
10:48:39Schnueffah ok
10:48:51LinusNyesterday was not planned
10:50:56LinusNIRQ fix committed
10:51:18LinusNthe timeout panic should be gone
10:51:32LinusN(it is gone, since the error handling is removed :-)
10:51:50LinusNthe entire recording driver is rewritten
10:51:57LinusNbetter performance
10:52:18LinusNZagor: the truncate seems wrong
10:52:29LinusNit seems to truncate too much
10:52:59LinusNwhenever i record a file that is shorter than the existing RECORD.MP3, it gets very short, much shorter than was recorded
10:53:24Zagorreally? ok, i'll do some tests.
10:54:16LinusNuse the new mpeg.c
10:54:44LinusNi'll dig into the frame counter now
11:00:55 Join kargatron [0] (
11:09:16LinusNZagor: i just tried to build a player simulator
11:09:35LinusNit couldn't find LANG_STAT
11:09:35Zagorbrave man :-)
11:10:05LinusN../../apps/main_menu.c: In function `show_info':
11:10:05LinusN../../apps/main_menu.c:211: `LANG_DISK_STAT' undeclared (first use in this function)
11:10:58Zagorit works on the site, and for me...
11:11:13LinusNdo configure in a fresh dir
11:12:54Zagorjust did. works.
11:28:02LinusNfound t
11:28:15LinusNthere was a stray x11/lang.h
11:29:47LinusNhave you tried the new mpeg.c?
11:30:05Zagorno. i'm starting with pure fat tests
11:31:25LinusNi was thinking...we only check the battery status when writing the settings, right?
11:33:22Zagorwell, do we really?
11:35:04LinusN if(save_config_buffer())
11:35:04LinusN {
11:35:04LinusN lcd_clear_display();
11:35:04DBUGEnqueued KICK LinusN
11:35:04LinusN#ifdef HAVE_LCD_CHARCELLS
11:35:04LinusN lcd_puts(0, 0, str(LANG_SETTINGS_SAVE_PLAYER));
11:36:22Zagoryeah, but nobody's checking any battery. that text is wrong, it only displays on failed rtc write or partitionless disk.
11:36:34LinusNwho removed the battery check?
11:36:44Zagordid we ever have one?
11:36:50LinusNi think so
11:37:07LinusNanyway, we will need one in the future
11:37:32LinusNto warn for low battery when recording
11:37:52Zagorright, but that's for the recording app do handle. not disk writing.
11:38:08LinusNwe could have a general disk write protection
11:38:21Zagori don't see the point of that, honestly
11:38:43LinusNok then
11:38:47Zagorif you have enough battery to spin up the disk, you mostly likely have enough to do the write too.
11:38:54Zagorand if you can't spin the disk, no damage can be done
11:39:39kargatronlet the experiment begin! :)
11:39:45LinusNso if i do open-write-close when i save the rec buffer, we will be allright?
11:41:08LinusNso be it
11:41:33Zagortruncating writes work fine in the fat sim
11:42:01LinusNwhen i ran it yesterday, it lost a lot of data
11:42:10LinusNmaybe a cluster
11:44:44Zagorwas that visible in the filename, or how did you notice?
11:44:51Zagorin the file size, i mean
11:45:15LinusNi listened to it
11:46:28LinusNi'll do some more tests
11:46:32dwihnoLinus: I read about the IRQ playback performance improvement... How much of an improvement is it?
11:46:41Zagorme too
11:46:56LinusNdwihno: in theory, it is huge
11:47:21LinusNbut i have never had any performance problems, so I can't really tell
11:48:01***No seen item changed, no save performed.
11:48:15kargatronhm, must not have been paying attention. is there a link to look at?
11:49:02LinusNa link?
11:51:33kargatron"IRQ playback" - dunno what that is. as i said, not paying attention enough, i guess
11:52:04LinusNwe get the DEMAND signal from the MAS via an IRQ instead of polling
11:52:28kargatronohh, this is that jargon stuff i made a joke about yesterday! :)
11:52:46LinusNshould improve the MP3 playback performance (less skips with a "busy" WPS)
11:53:10LinusNand should remove the timeout panics when recording
11:53:21kargatronwould it be neutral wrt to glitches?
11:53:41kargatronmy only perf probs are the jolt/silent-playing bit
11:53:59LinusNtry it
11:54:46kargatronlatest build has it? I haven't updated since 10/30, since no new features have been added that i use...
11:56:57Zagorhe just checked it in. grab the latest bleeding edge.
12:13:00kargatronLinusN, i know you haven't seen the silence problem. what i was suggesting that you use a 'shotgun' warn-out approach, that might reveal discrepancies when the silence occured, which I could probably reproduce.
12:13:33kargatronotoh, if you don't think such warns would be useful, so be it. i don't know the code...
12:14:06LinusNkargatron: like i said, i could warn, but when?
12:14:15LinusNthe firmware doesn't know that there is silence
12:14:18kargatronwell, during playback
12:14:32kargatronand when i hit a silence, i'd go into the debug section and report.
12:14:48Zagorkargatron: there are hundreds of parameters to choose from. we have no idea where to start.
12:15:38LinusNkargatron: try the debug->mpeg screen
12:30:10kargatronwell, of course my immediate attempts to repro it fail. but next time it happens, I'll check the mpeg screen, see if anything is obviously different from a normal one, at least
12:37:42 Quit TotMacher ()
12:49:45CtcpIgnored 4 channel CTCP requests in 13 hours and 3 minutes at the last flood
12:49:45*dwihno got a humble question to the linux ninjas :)
12:49:53*LinusN hides
12:49:53dwihnoHave you gotten XFree to do TV-out?
12:50:03LinusNno, haven't tried
12:50:24Zagorme neither, but I plan to
12:50:40dwihnoI'm googlin' for some kind of information atm. It would be pretty neat.
12:50:54Zagora good place to start, perhaps:
12:51:13dwihnoI see a TV-in project at, which might be interesting for video capturing
12:51:54Zagorthat's tv-in...
12:53:51dwihnoI said so :)
12:54:01Zagor<dwihno> Have you gotten XFree to do TV-out?
12:54:16dwihnoYes :)
12:54:19dwihnoI said so too! :)
12:54:34dwihnodwihno> I see a TV-in project at
12:55:06Zagorah, right
13:00:13dwihnoAh, reading the official nvidia docs might be an idea
13:01:22dwihno(app-j) APPENDIX J: CONFIGURING TV-OUT
13:02:18dwihnoI guess you need the closed source nvidia drivers for that
13:02:27dwihnoYou got nvidia?
13:03:08Zagorxfree86 doesn't include nvidia dvi support yet :-(
13:03:25dwihnothe nvidia-provided drivers does
13:03:38Zagoryes. but they don't work with linux 2.5
13:03:38dwihnoas well as hardware acceleratio
13:03:49dwihno2.5? sounds like a test kernel ;D
13:04:02Zagorit is
13:04:05Hadaka2.5 is the way
13:04:12dwihnoWhat's new?
13:04:35Hadakaway much, actually, atleast in my opinion
13:04:52ZagorI want a simple fanless video card with dvi-d. seems nobody makes one. :-(
13:05:13dwihnoThis DVI card in the shelf has no fan
13:05:18dwihnoJust a small heatsink
13:05:20Hadakaactually, I'm wishing for 2.4.20 to get released for my work computer
13:05:31Zagordwihno: dvi, as in flat panel
13:05:32dwihnoHadaka: something special you're waiting for?
13:05:47dwihnoZagor: DVI, as in stupid non-standard contact? :)
13:05:57Zagorit is standard
13:06:09dwihnoStandard = oldschool style
13:06:17Hadakadwihno: yes. XF4.2.1 compatible dga :)
13:06:18dwihnoeverything else = non-standard :)
13:06:24Zagoroldschool = analog...
13:06:25dwihnoHadaka: kickass :)
13:06:46Hadakarc1 atleast is out already
13:06:53Hadakarc2 it seems
13:18:37Zagorahh, rename() fixed.
13:18:55dwihnoYay for Zay! :D
13:19:19dwihnoHey, the archos worked flawless with freebsd btw.
13:19:43Zagoryeah, rec20 does thanks to the new usb2 chip
13:19:55dwihnoYea :)
13:20:06dwihnoWas it In-System blahblah who did it?
13:20:19dwihnoMy external USB2 box for my HD has some In-System item too
13:20:24dwihno(which worked flawless too!)
13:20:58dwihnoFy vad sugen jag blev på svampstuvnign
13:21:48dwihnoImagine varma mackor with svampstuvning and skinka and coated with cheese ... :)~~~
13:21:56*dwihno is in "varma-mackor-land"
13:29:49LinusNOpera för Linux isn't all that smart
13:30:06LinusNif i download a PDF file and select "Open the file" in the dialog box
13:30:17LinusNit tries to open it before it is downloaded
13:30:29Zagorreally? that's gotta be a bug.
13:30:34LinusNi.e it opens a half PDF file
13:30:41LinusNi'll report it to them
13:31:41dwihnoI saw a beta version of opera 7 being released.
13:31:52dwihnoPerhaps for windows only, but I still thought I might mention it ;)
13:32:14Zagordwihno: i've tried it. but I hate the new bright-white look.
13:32:44Zagordidn't find how to change it, so i'm back in o6
13:34:29dwihnoZagor: I guess everything will be configurable later on... :) (It might be, but you didn't stumble across that configuration)
13:35:09Zagoryeah. version 6 can change skins, but I didn't see it in version 7. maybe it will be in a later revision.
13:36:46LinusNI like Mozilla, but Opera is still my browser of choice
13:37:13Zagoryeah, me too.
13:37:24LinusNOpera has better options for almost everything
13:37:33LinusNgives me a sense of control
13:37:41LinusNno nonsense
13:38:01Zagori've been trying to bind keys the same way in mozilla, but it's really poorly documented :-(
13:38:19dwihnoI think Mozilla is much slower too
13:38:54LinusNi use Opera on all my platforms: windows, Linux and Symbian
13:39:48dwihnoSymbian? Sounds PDA'ish
13:40:05HadakaI'd use something else than mozilla but nothing supports stylesheets and xml well enough
13:40:27Hadakabut my needs are special, I guess
13:41:10dwihnoHow come?
13:42:16Hadakawell since other people seem to use other browsers :)
13:45:46dwihnoIE for *nix would be kickass :)
13:46:07dwihnoIsn't it available for solaris or such?
13:46:52LinusNie is evil
13:47:40HadakaI haven't ever realized what people see in IE
13:48:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:48:04kargatronit's convenient for windows users, is all.
13:50:07dwihnoFast JVM
13:50:17dwihnonice style sheet support
13:50:31dwihnodoesn't crash too often ;)
13:50:44HadakaFast JVM I can understand
13:51:07Zagornice style sheet support??? which IE version are you running?
13:51:11Hadakabut IE style sheet support has been buggy in each and every version
13:51:41kargatronif you can't understand 'convenience' then you are missing the primary driver behind almost all human activity. :)
13:51:55dwihnoZagor: 5-ish something
13:52:08Hadakakargatron: it's not just convenience for windows users if the people are wishing IE for *nix
13:52:35dwihnoI prefer IE over Mozilla
13:52:40dwihnoI prefer Opera over IE
13:52:47dwihnoBut Opera sometimes crashes :/
13:52:58dwihnoBut I'm gonna give Opera for FreeBSD a try
13:53:07 Quit kargatron ("Suckers!")
13:57:40Zagorlunch time
13:57:43 Nick Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch (
13:57:58dwihnolunch at 2pm? nay! that's too late! :)
14:40:04 Nick Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor (
14:52:02 Join kargatron [0] (~Vincent@
14:57:34 Join TotMacher [0] (
14:59:49 Join TotMach3r [0] (
15:00:09 Quit TotMach3r (Client Quit)
15:10:33LinusNZagor: do you support O_APPEND?
15:11:37dwihnoI sense recording fixes coming up :D
15:12:18LinusNdoes O_CREAT|O_APPEND work?
15:12:30ZagorI guess
15:12:51Zagoryeah, it does. creat is only looked at if the file doesn't exist
15:26:43LinusNis it possible for somebody to do a recording with Line In and see if the frequency is correct?
15:27:11Zagori have nothing to plug it into right now
15:27:30Zagoryou could just record nothing and see what happens
15:27:39LinusNi just though of the same thing
15:27:49LinusNi don't need to listen to it...
15:27:50Zagorsound is overrated :)
15:28:11LinusNBTW, it's ON+F1 for id3 browse, right?
15:28:20kargatronreverse orde,r yes
15:28:38Zagorright, you must press F1 first
15:28:55LinusNi noticed, how silly
15:31:15Zagorso how should we reach file delete and remove? in the gui.
15:31:37dwihnoFrom Rockbox Commander - the integrated file manager :D
15:31:40LinusNonly i n wps :-)
15:31:41kargatroni can't even remember how archos did it.:)
15:31:49dwihnoThey had F2 or such
15:31:56dwihnoF2 for file
15:32:02dwihnothen you could chose delete or something
15:32:31dwihnoI haven't been using that firmware since ATA: -2 :)
15:32:32Zagorremember player users want this too
15:32:57dwihnoa file menu perhaps
15:33:07dwihnowith rename, delete etc.
15:33:15dwihnoWe're running out of buttons!
15:33:30*dwihno looks at his unit
15:33:37LinusNyeah, rb explorer
15:33:49kargatronhow about 3 hard bumps against a hard surface when the file is chosen
15:34:08dwihnoOkay, how about a file menu from the main menu?
15:34:19dwihnoOr keeping "configuration" pressed for 2+ secs
15:34:54Zagorkargatron: hehe, excellent idea
15:35:57Zagora menu item is probably the only workable way
15:37:41dwihnofile management perhaps
15:40:04dwihnoor a "second file browser"
15:41:03kargatroni think recorder users would certainly appreciate a file mgr mode where those F buttons can be used.
15:41:19Zagormaybe a "file manager mode" in the browser, somehow? so pressing PLAY gives you a list of options (remove, rename etc) insted of playing the file?
15:41:36kargatronIn fact, a consistent/similar interface for file mgmt and queueing, etc, is probaly a good idea.
15:42:13Zagorkargatron: holding play on a file brings up a menu: queue, rename, delete?
15:42:36dwihnoZagor: another "quick"-menu?
15:42:54Zagordwihno: yeah, sort of
15:42:54kargatronZagor, maybe, i haven't personally given it much thought, but:
15:43:15kargatroni have seen comments in the requests that despise the 'hold-down' method, for queueing at least
15:43:25kargatroni doubt those types would enjoy it more for file mgmt
15:43:34Zagorok, what is the reason they don't like it?
15:43:56kargatronprobably don't like that brief delay in doing things.
15:44:27kargatronyou can practice getting good at key sequences, until it's quite fast, but a delay will always stall the process.
15:44:39kargatronmy guess at that - i can see the point of view...
15:45:21kargatroni.e., there's a diff between holding down for a time, and punching specific key sequences to get there. many prefer the latter, is all.
15:45:40dwihnobuttons < options :)
15:46:05dwihnoFile management is still not really a daily task
15:46:26dwihnoIf you want to do something major, you connect the unit and use your fav' software for that purpose
15:47:15kargatronpersonally, i doubt i'd ever use file mgmt.
15:48:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:49:10kargatronanything ever come of that list suggestion/web page of a GUI reorg for the recorder?
15:50:28Zagornothing yet. we've been a bit busy here... :-)
15:51:27kargatronjust brought it up because it's potentially relevant to the file mgmt issues. depending on priorities.
15:52:36Zagoryeah. but there needs to be lots more discussions before we change the gui. file mgmt will go in first.
15:54:09dwihnoI say we get "File mgmt" in the menu! :)
15:54:25dwihnoI think the file stuff should be separated from the user interface (as with the recording)
15:54:45dwihnoThen using some kind of different icons will help too! :)
15:55:38Zagoricons? we have icons?
15:56:47dwihnoYes :)
15:57:20dwihnoSome kind of flute (recorder, hehu) to mark the recording
15:57:37dwihnoand a waste basket to show the "file management"
16:00:35dwihnoand a "start" button wish folding menus for all .rock modules! :)
16:04:14dwihno"Rockbox firmwares are developed for use in the Recorder models which in many people's opnions, mine included, are much better than what Archos supplies. You can even play games on your recorders with these units and these firmwares are updated daily. It makes your Recorder basically a brand new unit with many cool features"
16:05:40Zagornice words. where is it from?
16:07:16dwihnoSome firmware collection page
16:07:28dwihnoJust w8, I'll check
16:10:54Zagorit's interesting seeing how many people seem to think the current version is 1.14 instead of 1.4
16:11:32kargatronit's all those '1's in '1.4' - confusing
16:16:12dwihno"Those Rockbox guys really do kick some serious ass! Check out one of their DAILY BUILDS for some kick ass firmware replacement on Archos MP3 players. The latest development −− and this is why you'll have to grab the daily build and not the 1.3 build −− is ROLO. ROLO is a bootloader for the Archos."
16:20:52 Part Zagor
16:21:41 Join Zagor_ [242] (
16:21:43dwihnoDo you people know Eric Lasagne?
16:22:39 Nick Zagor_ is now known as Zagor (
16:34:05dwihnoCheck that URL
16:34:13Zagori did
16:34:19dwihnoCute huh? :)
16:34:24Zagoryeah :-)
16:34:58dwihnoRockBox avec francais! :)
16:46:45ZagorLinusN: you here?
16:46:55LinusNjust got here
16:47:40Zagori've been thinking about the plugins. i think we should use a function pointer struct instead, like I do in smash.
16:47:59LinusNfor all internal functions?
16:49:00Zagoris there a good reason not to?
16:49:27LinusNwell, i'm not all that fond of putting an API in cement
16:49:45Zagorwe can version control it, like everything else
16:50:14Zagorthe api isn't more fixed in a struct than with absolute addresses...
16:51:08Zagorwith a struct we don't have to worry about only running the exact same binary build.
16:52:23LinusNactually, i'm not that fond of defining a plugin API at all
16:52:59Zagorno plugins?
16:52:59LinusNi mean, we would have to put great effort in defining the API
16:53:09Zagorwe don't. the api is already there.
16:53:20dwihno"If you have an Archos Jukebox, trust me on this: Rockbox is nowhere near competing with Archos for the firmware on this thing. All I want is someone to fix the fucking shuffle on this thing, but no. I installed Rockbox and deleted it almost immediately. It sucked that much"
16:53:31Zagordwihno: that's an old gem.
16:53:39dwihnoYes :)
16:53:59dwihnoI used it back then
16:54:06dwihnoEven with the "Welle erdball" bug
16:55:07LinusNZagor: the api also consists of global data structures
16:55:40ZagorLinusN: it doesn't have to. it depends how much we want plugin:able. i say we start simple and export the firmware library.
16:56:05LinusNthe fw library?
16:56:38Zagoryes. file, screen and button api is enough for 75% of all plugins
16:57:27dwihnoc'est parfait
16:59:13 Nick dwihno is now known as dw|gone (dwihno@Bald067.Baldakinen.Umea.SE)
16:59:13DBUGEnqueued KICK dw|gone
17:08:23Zagori'm off
17:08:24 Part Zagor
17:16:52 Nick TotMacher is now known as tot|away (
17:48:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:07:35 Quit kargatron ("Suckers!")
19:13:13 Join Bagder [241] (
19:13:38Mode"#rockbox +o Bagder " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
19:13:52Topic"The Z turns 30 today!" by Bagder (
19:14:17LinusNyo Bagder!
19:14:41LinusNzagors birthday!
19:14:49LinusNi had forgotten!
19:27:49 Join wsb [0] (
19:28:18LinusNBagder: will he throw a party?
19:28:19wsbi have a question about the Archos MP3 Player/Recorder 10 Gig HD
19:28:26LinusNwsb: shoot
19:28:31BagderLinusN: not that I know of
19:28:47wsbwhen i start it up, i always get a hd register error
19:29:13wsbi have version 1.27b
19:29:55wsband LinusN ? , think you got a solution
19:30:11LinusNhow are your batteries?
19:30:25wsbabout empty
19:30:38LinusNbad batteries may cause this
19:31:00wsbbut i dont have the charger, because i bought it in the states, so i have to buy me a new one
19:31:22LinusNif the cells are dead or worn out, they may not give sufficient power to the drive
19:32:04LinusNwsb: any 9V 600mA battery eliminator will work
19:32:15wsbyes i know
19:37:46wsbso it could be either empty batteries or bad batteries or in worst case some hardware probs
19:38:57wsbok thx
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20:24:01Bagdersee ya
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